--- Log opened Fri Jul 05 00:00:39 2013
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20130705 03:33:02< vultraz> oh hullo LordBob_ 
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20130705 03:34:16< LordBob_> hello vultraz 
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20130705 03:34:33< vultraz> you're on later than usual 
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20130705 03:37:23< LordBob_> Yeah. I shouldn't be, by every right, but sleep doesn't seem to be anywhere around tonight
20130705 03:38:07< LordBob_> So, rather than turning around and around in bed, I'll try and make productive use of the extra time
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20130705 03:40:14< vultraz> I've looked up drawing tablets, I'm considering getting one, even though I'm not a professional or anything...
20130705 03:42:22< LordBob_> Hmm...Unless you have a very specific need for it, I would advise to purchase a pen, paper, and drawing tutorials first
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20130705 03:47:30-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 193 bugs, 334 feature requests, 27 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130705 03:47:30-!- Topic set by wesbot [~wesbot@wesnoth/bot/wesbot] [Thu Jul  4 17:37:42 2013]
20130705 03:47:30[Users #wesnoth-dev]
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20130705 03:47:30-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 52 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 52 normal]
20130705 03:47:37-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20130705 03:47:46< LordBob_> Besides, those techniques are the very behaviour most painting softwares try to emulate
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20130705 03:49:02< LordBob_> So if you don'l know your way around when you tacklle computer drawing, then you need to learn both the software and drawing skill simultaneously
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20130705 03:49:30< LordBob_> Doable, but may often result in wasted time
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20130705 03:50:13< vultraz> hm..
20130705 03:50:23< LordBob_> Believe me, I tried
20130705 03:50:52< vultraz> Jet tells me you can also do pixel art on a tablet
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20130705 03:51:20< LordBob_> of course you can. But it's a waste of the instrument
20130705 03:52:11< LordBob_> pixel art is a matter of precisely arranging single pixels. this doesn't use any of the specific features of the tablet
20130705 03:53:31< vultraz> eh...hm. Now I'm indecisive 
20130705 03:54:13< LordBob_> The thing is, acquiring drawing skills involves training your eye and mind so that you become able to observe life, or imagine stuff, and then translate it on your medium as faithfully as possible 
20130705 03:54:32< LordBob_> Owning a tablet doesn't do anything towards this aim
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20130705 03:55:32< LordBob_> Wether or not you buy the tablet is a matter of which tools you prefer to use, but one way or the other you can't do forever without the basic skills
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20130705 03:55:54< vultraz> Well, yes, I know that
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20130705 03:56:26< vultraz> I planned on learning anyway
20130705 03:57:03< LordBob_> Hence my advice: in the hypothesis that you have limited resources, they're better spent on the learning part for now ;)
20130705 03:57:11< LordBob_> At least, you'll know how to draw
20130705 03:57:41< LordBob_> Which in turn will help when doing sprites and animation, even if you do them with a mouse
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20130705 03:59:55< vultraz> TBH, I'm good at copying a real world visual reference, given enough time. My problem is using images in my head for visual references
20130705 04:00:54< LordBob_> Then, it seems your observation skill is sufficient. Time to learn anatomy & perspective
20130705 04:01:45< LordBob_> And lighting, composition, color theory... Art's a lifelong learning curve ;)
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20130705 09:05:00< thunderstruck> fabi: good morning
20130705 09:05:12< fabi> hi thunderstruck
20130705 09:05:29< thunderstruck> fabi: https://gna.org/patch/index.php?3972 is this something you could look at? 
20130705 09:06:33< thunderstruck> it seems to me that this is relevant with editor
20130705 09:07:55< fabi> thunderstruck: The attached patch seems to be broken. At least my patch view frontend tells me so.
20130705 09:09:40< thunderstruck> fabi: I see. I didn't look thoroughly at it, because I don't know that code. 
20130705 09:15:24< shadowm> The patch isn't broken.
20130705 09:15:56< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/nx9Sa8AZ
20130705 09:17:02< shadowm> If your patch viewer can't handle the email portion, find the first diff line ("diff --git a/changelog b/changelog") and remove everything preceding it.
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20130705 09:30:13< fabi> shadowm: Thank you.
20130705 09:30:51< fabi> thunderstruck: Yes, I can handle the patch. Would you assign it to me?
20130705 09:31:32< thunderstruck> fabi: I don't think I have those rights at gna. I just submitted the bug and got a reply with the person who provided this patch.
20130705 09:31:44< thunderstruck> from the person*
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20130705 09:32:31< vultraz> fabi: I can assign it to you
20130705 09:34:46< fabi> vultraz: Thank you :-)
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20130705 09:56:29< lipk> Compiling Wesnoth on new machine! Excitey!
20130705 09:59:24< thunderstruck> lipk: if the machine is fast, that should be exciting :)
20130705 09:59:51< lipk> Exactly.
20130705 10:01:08< thunderstruck> lipk: in case you want to leave a comment: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39077
20130705 10:01:47< lipk> thunderstruck: Thanks, I'll have a look.
20130705 10:04:15< lipk> Aaaand done!
20130705 10:04:57< lipk> Less than 10 minutes! The era of swearing-over-full-rebuilds is finally over!
20130705 10:09:35< vultraz> o_O
20130705 10:09:44< vultraz> what kind of sorcery is this
20130705 10:09:51< vultraz> 10 minute full build?
20130705 10:10:29< lipk> *Less* than 10 minute.
20130705 10:10:38< lipk> It was about 8.
20130705 10:10:52< lipk> And that included a full mo-update as well.
20130705 10:11:38< vultraz> ... O_o
20130705 10:12:01< vultraz> damn I need to get a new laptop. I want these crazy build times
20130705 10:16:22< shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~/src/wesnoth$ scons -c ; ccache -C ; ellapsed_time scons -j9 
20130705 10:16:30< shadowm> > ELLAPSED: 4:05.81
20130705 10:16:51< shadowm> (It's an -O3 build.)
20130705 10:23:12< thunderstruck> Who is a gui whiz here?
20130705 10:24:10< shadowm> I don't know if those are screenshots or mock-ups in your topic, but command buttons in the original English locale should use Title Case, not Sentence case.
20130705 10:24:44< shadowm> Also, the less words in the label, the better, especially for translations. "Switch to campaigns" would be considered far too long by some standards.
20130705 10:25:31< shadowm> "Show Campaigns" or just "Campaigns" should convey the point with less characters[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D.
20130705 10:25:42< shadowm> Ignore the SSH lag-induced garbage after 'characters'.
20130705 10:25:50< lipk> vultraz: This ain't no black magic, this is 2011 technology :P
20130705 10:26:04< thunderstruck> shadowm: Ok.
20130705 10:26:48< vultraz> lipk: explains it... I still use 2006 tech :P
20130705 10:27:07< shadowm> If you are working with GUI1, I think fabi currently has the exp[D[D[D[D[Dert ball in that field.
20130705 10:27:15< shadowm> Oh dear gods.
20130705 10:27:23< thunderstruck> shadowm: yest, that's gui1.
20130705 10:27:29< thunderstruck> yes*
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20130705 10:36:01< thunderstruck> fabi: ping me when/if you are able to talk about gui stuff.
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20130705 15:40:02< fabi> thunderstruck: ping
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20130705 15:47:21< thunderstruck> fabi: I have this annoying flicker which happens between mp::create and mp::configure screens. The flicker appears if I choose a campaign from mp::create screen. I.e. the game config gets reloaded, load screen is displayed and after that mp::configure screen is displayed. By putting a sleep command I've found out that for some reason gui::menu which is used for maps/campaigns stays visible after load scree
20130705 15:47:21< thunderstruck> n is gone.
20130705 15:47:49< fabi> uh
20130705 15:48:17< thunderstruck> the last tooltip is displayed as well, if that's any help.
20130705 15:49:58< fabi> the mp::configure class should be deleted/deconstructed at this time, and gui::menu as a member as well, right?
20130705 15:51:22< thunderstruck> the flow is like this: mp::create (select campaign from gui::menu, select difficulty from a dialog, reloading config + loadscreen) -> mp::configure
20130705 15:51:51< thunderstruck> So, mp::configure should be constructed.
20130705 15:52:03< thunderstruck> But the problem is not with it.
20130705 15:53:17< fabi> Isn't gui::menu a member of mp::configure?
20130705 15:53:30< thunderstruck> No.
20130705 15:54:05< thunderstruck> I thought you know that mp::configure is a new mp screen.
20130705 15:54:13< thunderstruck> It contains various options which used to be in mp::create.
20130705 15:54:23< fabi> yes i know
20130705 15:55:04< fabi> If gui::menu is not a member of mp::configure, what is its parent?
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20130705 15:55:47< thunderstruck> mp::ui
20130705 15:55:54< thunderstruck> gui::menu is just a list box.
20130705 15:56:16< fabi> Can I see the code?
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20130705 15:56:47< thunderstruck> fabi: https://github.com/thunders/wesnoth-old
20130705 15:57:40< thunderstruck> fabi: https://github.com/thunders/wesnoth-old/blob/gsoc-milestone2/src/multiplayer_create_engine.cpp#L346
20130705 15:57:50< thunderstruck> this is where the config reloading is triggered
20130705 15:58:37< thunderstruck> https://github.com/thunders/wesnoth-old/blob/gsoc-milestone2/src/multiplayer.cpp#L77
20130705 15:59:11< thunderstruck> and this is where I put sleep command and observed that gui::menu which is a member of mp::create is still visible
20130705 16:00:04< thunderstruck> https://github.com/thunders/wesnoth-old/blob/gsoc-milestone2/src/multiplayer_create.hpp#L62
20130705 16:00:11< thunderstruck> and here is the gui::menu I'm talking about
20130705 16:00:49< fabi> https://github.com/thunders/wesnoth-old/blob/gsoc-milestone2/src/multiplayer_create.hpp#L89
20130705 16:02:22< fabi> Okay, both are members of multiplayer_create, thus what you see should be normal.
20130705 16:03:48< thunderstruck> fabi: but why I don't see other gui stuff of mp::Create.
20130705 16:04:41< fabi> I guess there is a missing call to levels_menu_.hide(true)
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20130705 16:07:23< thunderstruck> fabi: no, the call is in its place: hide_children() method
20130705 16:07:49< thunderstruck> fabi: however, I just wrote an explicit call to it after preparing config for campaign
20130705 16:07:58< thunderstruck> fabi: and I see a bit different result now
20130705 16:08:25< thunderstruck> fabi: the menu is not visible, but instead of it I see a blue background which is used in many places in Wesnoth
20130705 16:09:16< fabi> Yeah, I guess the hide_children() method is taking care about redrawing the background
20130705 16:09:45< thunderstruck> fabi: I forgot to say that the size of blue background is the same as was the size of the menu
20130705 16:09:59< thunderstruck> so the whole screen is black, but in the middle there is a blue rectangular
20130705 16:10:12< thunderstruck> and so the flicker still exists
20130705 16:11:11< thunderstruck> fabi: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36902762/flicker.png
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20130705 18:49:55< mattsc> Is there somebody here who understands path finding with custom cost functions?  I am trying to do this (in Lua) and as a first step am simply trying to reproduce Wesnoth' normal path finding.
20130705 18:50:09< mattsc> Somehow I can't get the "turn ends due to terrain movement cost" thing to work, even though I think I am using the same maths as the C++ code here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/pathfind/pathfind.cpp#L659
20130705 18:51:02< mattsc> Here's the situation: http://imagebin.org/263511  The spearman has max_moves=5, so should stop at the village because it got 1 MP left with 2 required to move to the forest tile.
20130705 18:52:17< mattsc> And here's the code: http://pastebin.com/aB3ZHnBr  which I think is the same as shortest_path_calculator() in the C++ code (dumbed down to the essential for this situation)
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20130705 18:54:10< mattsc> Cost for this should be 9 (and wesnoth.find_path without custom cost function returns that), but my code gives me 8.  So, even though the move_cost is correctly shown as 3 for the situation given (if I put debug output in there), it doesn't seem to work correctly for some reason.
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20130705 18:54:59< mattsc> move_cost for moving from 20,15 to 20,16, I mean - the 2 MP for terrain plus 1 MP that cannot be used on the previous turn
20130705 18:55:24< mattsc> Any ideas anybody?
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20130705 19:01:24< vultraz> mattsc: just wondering, why is it in a function?
20130705 19:02:32< mattsc> vultraz: because you need to pass a cost function to wesnoth.find_path if you want to use a custom cost function: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/LuaWML:Pathfinder#wesnoth.find_path
20130705 19:03:45< vultraz> ah
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 06 00:00:40 2013