--- Log opened Tue Jul 16 00:00:21 2013
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20130716 00:26:18< shadowm> trademark_: Here is _a_ .pbl file: http://pastebin.com/ijBgPH0J   Here is the API reference: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/PblWML
20130716 00:29:23< shadowm> zookeeper: Did you by any chance forget this? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=556815#p556815
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20130716 04:58:15< _8680_> Is <http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=34496> still relevant in the post-1.9 world?
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20130716 08:10:56< zookeeper> shadowm, no, i think it's great. please commit :>
20130716 08:11:40< shadowm> Why me?
20130716 08:12:08< zookeeper> because i'm too lazy
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20130716 08:32:54< irker885> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master c4de8dae1dd2 / players_changelog: Fix players_changelog formatting http://git.io/3x4_pg
20130716 08:32:57< irker885> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 4e6b56439a15 / changelog data/core/about.cfg data/core/units.cfg players_changelog: units: Added descrition for the Wose race by the_beagle http://git.io/KOGniw
20130716 08:33:54< shadowm> Espreon: Is there any particular reason the Ogres race description uses U+0027 APOSTROPHE instead of U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK?
20130716 08:43:46< zookeeper> ohh, thanks a lot.
20130716 08:44:08 * zookeeper smooches shadowm
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20130716 10:56:02< shadowm> trademark_: Did you see my messages in the logs?
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20130716 11:21:05< trademark_> shadowm, I'm gonna read them ;)
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20130716 11:23:48< trademark_> shadowm, thanks for them ;-)
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20130716 11:24:24< trademark_> these*
20130716 11:28:50< shadowm> Okay, although that doesn't answer my question.
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20130716 13:40:20< trademark_> shadowm, just to know the average size of a pbl file, what could go in, etc.
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20130716 16:47:53< mattsc> Crab_, flix: hi
20130716 16:48:13< Crab_> mattsc: hello
20130716 16:48:14< flix> mattsc: hi
20130716 16:48:34< mattsc> Crab_: there's a question on the forums whether ai.attack() is available from WML for human controlled sides.  There are 2 ways I know how to do that:
20130716 16:49:34< mattsc> Use wesnoth.debug_ai(), which only works in debug mode.  Or set the ai table as a global variable, have the side play through one AI turn,  and change to human control.
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20130716 16:50:08< mattsc> I assume there's a reason why the ai table should not generally be accessible for human-controlled sides?
20130716 16:51:32< mattsc> flix: on a different topic, did you see my question concerning wesnoth.find_cost_map() yesterday?
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20130716 16:53:29< flix> mattsc: no I must have overseen it in the logs. But I read it now
20130716 16:55:25< flix> mattsc: I had the algorithm to use the current amount of moves. But then I changed it just to use alway max_moves for all units. Is this a issue for you?
20130716 16:56:14< mattsc> flix: the applications I have in mind are all for the current situation on the map, which includes MP as they are, not max_moves.
20130716 16:57:24< mattsc> Is there a reason why it shouldn't be done that way?  It's more general that way (you can always set moves to max_moves, but you cannot do the opposite if the algorithm doesn't do it)
20130716 16:57:50< flix> mattsc: How can you set moves to max moves?
20130716 16:58:11< mattsc> flix: uh...   unit.moves = unit.max_moves ?
20130716 16:58:42< mattsc> Then you need to reset them afterward, of course, otherwise you get OOS errors
20130716 17:00:16< mattsc> flix: the Lua AI code does a lot of that sort of thing.  Temporarily change unit stats, take units off the map, move them around, etc.
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20130716 17:01:01< Crab_> mattsc: the ai table should be accessible for human-controlled sides, if there's a need for that
20130716 17:01:06< flix> mattsc: hmm, okay, I think about it and then change it. Shouldn't be a big thing.
20130716 17:01:14< Crab_> mattsc: after all, there's an AI for each side, including human sides
20130716 17:02:04< mattsc> Crab_: I agree, but currently it is only available after the AI played through one turn.  Should that be changed?
20130716 17:02:40< mattsc> Crab_: also, Nephro always said that the ai table should not be accessible globally (which is needed to make it accessible from WML, I think), but I never quite understood why
20130716 17:03:16< mattsc> flix: okay, thanks.  You could also add a use_max_moves or use_current_moves option, if you prefer, depending on what you want the default to be.
20130716 17:03:32< mattsc> flix: I don't really care which one is the default as long as use_current_moves is possible.
20130716 17:03:49< mattsc> flix: I have a couple other things.  :)
20130716 17:03:51< flix> Crab_, mattsc: The easiest solution would be to make debug_ai() available outside debug mode (the ingame "lua" command only works in debug mode anyway)
20130716 17:04:48< mattsc> flix: how hard would it be to add an SLF to this?  If I am only interested in a certain part of the map?
20130716 17:06:11< mattsc> flix: and: you said you added the table with cost and number of units so that the return value is a triple.  I agreed a couple days ago, but I had forgotten how LS.of_pairs works.
20130716 17:06:15< flix> mattsc: for runtime optimization? Because if runtime is not critical, can't you use the location_set to do this? Or filter it afterwards?
20130716 17:06:37< mattsc> flix: yes, for runtime reasons only
20130716 17:07:08< mattsc> flix: the more of the work done by C++ the better for my purposes.  :)
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20130716 17:07:24< mattsc> not because the programming in Lua is hard, but because it's much slower.
20130716 17:08:45< mattsc> flix: LS.of_pairs takes all table elements that are not x=, y=, [1] or [2] and adds them as values.  So I'd rather make the output a quadruple array in that case.  Or even something with keys cost= and unit_numer=
20130716 17:08:52< mattsc> *unit_number=
20130716 17:08:59< flix> mattsc: should be not to hard. but it would not become faster on the C++ side (I would do something like *create full cost map* then *filter*). It's to hard to filter it while it's created
20130716 17:09:26< mattsc> flix: but it would still be faster than filtering in Lua, right?
20130716 17:10:01< mattsc> flix: the SLF is really low priority, so don't worry about it unless it's very simple to do.
20130716 17:10:09< flix> mattsc: probably :)
20130716 17:10:42< flix> mattsc: can a map_location in a location_set have multiple values?
20130716 17:10:51< mattsc> flix: yes
20130716 17:11:08< mattsc> flix: hold on for a second, I'll show you an example
20130716 17:11:19< flix> mattsc: okay, then I change it to a quadruple
20130716 17:14:16< flix> Crab_: Did you take a look at my important hexes? :)
20130716 17:15:52< mattsc> flix: http://pastebin.com/Ltcv50QV
20130716 17:16:04< mattsc> LS.of_pairs turns the first table into the second
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20130716 17:22:04< flix> mattsc: okay, thank you! Would you prefer "cost" and "reach_count" to be the keys for the values? or are numerical keys okay (then it would correspond with find_reach())
20130716 17:22:32< mattsc> flix: it really doesn't matter to me, so whatever you prefer
20130716 17:24:00< flix> mattsc: okay. So we have 1. change moves to current moves, 2. return a quadruple and 3. Add a optional SLF
20130716 17:24:58< mattsc> flix: sounds great, and is in order of priority as far as I am concerned
20130716 17:25:06< flix> mattsc: and I think for 1. I make it a option with current_moves as default
20130716 17:25:22< mattsc> flix: sounds good
20130716 17:25:34< mattsc> flix: I'll do some extensive testing after you've done that
20130716 17:27:27< flix> mattsc, (Crab_): okay, I'll do it over the next days. Btw: Right now I try to extend the attack-prediction to work with unit_types instead of on-map units.
20130716 17:28:32< mattsc> flix: no rush at all from my side.  I'm not waiting for this to do anything right now (but I do have some usecases in mind for it)
20130716 17:32:50< irker885> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 0891bffafb49 / data/ai/lua/ai_helper.lua: ai_helper.put_labels(): add optional keys= parameter http://git.io/uC8ylA
20130716 17:35:03< mattsc> flix: that commit ^ is a result of testing find_cost_map().  It makes that much easier.  :)
20130716 17:36:13< flix> mattsc: have you tested my debug-option?
20130716 17:36:37< mattsc> flix: remind me what that is ...
20130716 17:37:31< flix> mattsc: set debug=true in the option table and then you see all those values as labels on the map.
20130716 17:38:05< mattsc> flix: oh, right, you said that.  Nope, sorry, I forgot...  :P
20130716 17:40:12< mattsc> flix: is this the right syntax:
20130716 17:40:15< mattsc>     local cost_map = LS.of_pairs(wesnoth.find_cost_map(x, y, { debug = true }))
20130716 17:40:44< flix> it's wesnoth.find_cost_map(x, y, {}, { debug = true }))
20130716 17:41:39< flix> mattsc: unfortunately! The {} is a empty unit_type table.
20130716 17:41:54< mattsc> flix: now I have tested it and it works.  Cool!
20130716 17:42:34< mattsc> flix: still, the fact that I had forgotten about it made me make that addition to ai_helper.put_labels(), which is useful.  :)
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20130716 18:22:01< Crab_> mattsc: re 'I agree, but currently it is only available after the AI played through one turn.  Should that be changed?' - yes. the AI should be available when first accessed (e.g. :inspect will trigger ai initialization) - so, access to ai should cause it to be initialized.
20130716 18:22:26< Crab_> flix: not yet, but will do so soon
20130716 18:27:09< mattsc> Crab_: okay, and is it okay to make it accessible from WML?  
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20130716 18:28:19< Crab_> mattsc: yes, but the debug_ai name seems not suitable for it, so it's better to add another name. and note the usual MP safety constrains (AI is local)
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20130716 18:30:31< mattsc> Crab_: okay, sounds good.  Btw, I'm most likely not going to do any of this myself, I'm just wondering what I should reply to that forum post.  And then I'll keep bugging you and flix and Nephro...  :)  (but currently there are higher priorities, as far as I am concerned)
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20130716 18:32:39< Crab_> mattsc: sure! thanks
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20130716 18:33:26< mattsc> Crab_: thanks for creating more work for you?  ;)  Nah, thank you.
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20130716 18:34:50< Crab_> mattsc: by the way, I've more or less figured out a good way to make A=B aspects work.
20130716 18:36:06< mattsc> Crab_: that would be great!
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20130716 19:33:43< mordante> servus
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20130716 19:36:22< mordante> trademark_, I'm not against libraries per se, but the ones you want to use are 'too new' or not supported by all distributions
20130716 19:37:44< mordante> trademark_, for tar I assume there is a good universal supported library
20130716 19:38:15< mordante> trademark_, however we already use a way to pack the addon into one file to send over the network
20130716 19:38:45< mordante> trademark_, using the compression (gz/b2z) in the boost iostream library
20130716 19:41:09< mordante> trademark_, for boost filesystem I see one issue, boost filesystem in our minimum supported version only has version 2 and IIRC the latest version no longer has version 2 support
20130716 19:41:36< mordante> not sure which version has initial version 3 support, not how big the differences are
20130716 19:41:56< mordante> AI0867, do you know how big the difference between boost filesystem 2 and 3 are
20130716 19:41:57< mordante> ?
20130716 19:49:22< mordante> iwontbecreative I'll have a look later
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20130716 19:51:49< mordante> trademark_, around?
20130716 19:59:02< loonycyborg> They have different interfaces
20130716 19:59:18< loonycyborg> boost.filesystem 2 and 3 that is
20130716 19:59:35< mordante> big differences or minor?
20130716 19:59:37< loonycyborg> Especially when filename charsets are concerned
20130716 19:59:53< loonycyborg> Which is the reason we were looking into it in the first place
20130716 20:00:56< loonycyborg> If we want to tackle the charset issue then interfaces for it are totally different
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20130716 20:08:02< mordante> Filesystem v3 seems to be introduced in boost 1.44, so that would exclude users of Debian Squeeze and Ubuntu Lucid
20130716 20:08:22< mordante> Ivanovic, would bumping the boost dependency to 1.44 be a problem for you?
20130716 20:08:42< Ivanovic> mordante: i think so, 1.42 is the latest i have in my pandora toolchain
20130716 20:08:57< Ivanovic> (which reminds me that the last dev release still has not build because i was too lazy...)
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20130716 20:09:37< Ivanovic> in fact the boost version is just 1.41.0
20130716 20:09:59< mordante> Ivanovic, ok thanks, just curious but will the toolchain be updated in the near future?
20130716 20:10:16< Ivanovic> no idea, probably now
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20130716 20:10:40< Ivanovic> because this would mean a significant update on the device side, too
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20130716 20:12:36< mordante> Ivanovic, s/now/not/ ?
20130716 20:12:43< Ivanovic> yeah, not
20130716 20:12:45< Ivanovic> sorry
20130716 20:13:07< mordante> no problem, but now the next sentence makes sense ;-)
20130716 20:13:21< Ivanovic> :)
20130716 20:26:22< Soliton> the newer boost version would be for the add-on server, right? probably not relevant on the pandora.
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20130716 21:13:29< mordante> probably not, but it would be nice if we could have one boost version as dependency
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20130716 21:38:42< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 17 00:00:24 2013