--- Log opened Wed Jul 24 00:00:02 2013
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20130724 01:35:05< shadowm> Elvish_Hunter: What I mean is that it's not clear whether I need to change content I wrote for 1.10 to work with this change and how.
20130724 01:35:54< shadowm> I understand that you decided to make ellipse= superfluous despite this not being discussed anywhere prior to the commit series as far as I know.
20130724 01:36:20< AI0867> if you have level 0 units, you need to remove ellipse=ellipse-nozoc
20130724 01:36:41< AI0867> or the game will try to access ellipse-nozoc-nozoc.png
20130724 01:37:08< shadowm> Elvish_Hunter: So you say that ellipse=misc/ellipse-nozoc _will_ cause problems. That's not nice.
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20130724 01:37:24< shadowm> I really don't get whether this change is improving anything at all.
20130724 01:38:56< shadowm> You just said that modifying a singular unit's ellipse attribute doesn't work when the unit_type has specified its own ellipse, unless you use [object]. Your changes solve this somehow? Is there even a point considering that the majority of information contained in a serialized singular unit is discarded by the game in favor of the unit_type data or modifications (traits, objects, AMLAs) regardless?
20130724 01:39:37< shadowm> And yes, if the series of changes will remain for the next release, a wmllint rule is a must, not a mere suggestion.
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20130724 01:59:40< shadowm> Ivanovic: So, what's up with 1.10.7?
20130724 02:02:10< shadowm> src/tests/gui/test_gui2.cpp:63:26: fatal error: map_create.hpp: No such file or directory
20130724 02:02:17< shadowm> fabi: Please fix this.
20130724 02:02:59< shadowm> master, obviously, since that is where you decided to remove src/map_create.hpp without doing a grep check.
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20130724 02:40:22< id_steamhater> Greets :) Can anyone give a little interview?
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20130724 06:58:07< groggy> anonymissimus, ai0867: both of you have some wmllint commits on master following 1.10.0 that weren't backported to master
20130724 06:58:54< groggy> im planning to backport bugfixes to stable in the near future, especially with shadowm pushing for 1.10.7
20130724 07:00:26< groggy> do you want me to look through your commits for backportable bugfixes vs 1.10 -> 1.11, or do you want to do it yourself?
20130724 07:01:08< groggy> backported to master > backported to stable
20130724 07:09:08< shadowm> groggy: I thought I had backported all relevant commits, but if I missed something feel free to discuss it.
20130724 07:11:32< groggy> no no, not you
20130724 07:12:04< groggy> your commits were backported
20130724 07:12:34< shadowm> Oh, um, okay, I apparently forgot the difference between white and yellow text for a moment.
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20130724 07:46:22< Ivanovic> shadowm: no idea, are all important issues that should be fixed for a new stable release done?
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20130724 07:59:51< shadowm> Ivanovic: I can't speak for all other developers for obvious reasons (why the hell are you asking me in particular?), so I can only say that https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20951 is the only bug in the bug tracker that is marked as blocker and isn't fixed, but there's nothing in the entry suggesting that it applies to 1.10 AFAICT.
20130724 08:00:11< shadowm> There's also the unidentified screen corruption bug in Windows that nobody has properly investigated yet.
20130724 08:01:33< shadowm> The only other open blocker is https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20385 , which has been fixed for a while and I've actually presented it as a justification for 1.10.7 at least thrice before.
20130724 08:02:21< shadowm> See also groggy's messages above.
20130724 08:03:08< shadowm> I'd personally give everyone two weeks for 1.10.7 and release it then since it doesn't seem like we are anywhere near a 1.12 beta yet.
20130724 08:42:25< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd cf2ab40e8b19 / / (4 files in 4 dirs): Set game_config::path. Update test with basic upload features (no response and o http://git.io/ioCxow
20130724 08:42:32< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd d7f026511ab5 / CMakeLists.txt src/CMakeLists.txt src/umcd/umcd_logger.cpp src/umcd/umcd_logger.hpp: Add a timestamp in the logger. Refactor the logger to solve concurrent issues. A http://git.io/tcLmPA
20130724 08:42:32< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd f4588be8ea46 / src/SConscript: Merge branch 'asio_umcd' of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old into asio_umc http://git.io/iXnzoQ
20130724 08:42:32< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd dab84cca405d / / (2 files in 2 dirs): Update the protocol documentation: http://git.io/CsmGTA
20130724 08:42:33< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 12c2694c8ada / .travis.yml SConstruct: Add the library boost date time to scons and travis. http://git.io/BsgvVA
20130724 08:42:35< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 0be4fd035c22 / src/umcd/umcd_logger.hpp: Fix some clang warnings. http://git.io/HH0D_Q
20130724 08:42:37< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 7a32be477bd4 / src/SConscript: Fix scons build for umcd_test. http://git.io/ZtZuBg
20130724 08:42:39< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd c511c1add3e7 / / (9 files in 5 dirs): * Correction of the archive_type and umc_type regex. http://git.io/piwILQ
20130724 08:42:41< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 540afaa05d90 / doc/design/umcd/communication_protocol.tex: Update doc: a fixed size length field is added before each metadata. http://git.io/rifvyg
20130724 08:42:43< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 71fcb6e90e4a / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Compilation warning on Clang++. http://git.io/btrzXw
20130724 08:45:39< trademark_> wesbot, !seen mordante
20130724 08:45:39< wesbot> trademark_: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 5d 10h ago.  5d 10h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20130724 09:30:02< trademark_> I need to code a tool to generate code from a config file, does an API exist in Python for config file?
20130724 09:30:49< trademark_> Or do I code this tool in c++?
20130724 09:32:09< shadowm> Generite what kind of code?
20130724 09:32:13< shadowm> *Generate
20130724 09:33:06< trademark_> I describe each server errors in a config file such as :
20130724 09:33:07< trademark_>   [error]
20130724 09:33:08< trademark_>     enum_value="invalid_packet"
20130724 09:33:08< trademark_>     message="The packet you sent is invalid. It could be a protocol bug and administrators have been contacted, the problem should be fixed soon."
20130724 09:33:08< trademark_>   [/error]
20130724 09:33:32< trademark_> and I need to generate the category, enum, and error classes from that file.
20130724 09:33:49< shadowm> Okay, why is that in a config file?
20130724 09:34:01< trademark_> because it's flexible
20130724 09:34:16< shadowm> Flexible to what end?
20130724 09:35:03< trademark_> if you want to correct a typo, change a whole message, the server won't need to be recompiled or even restarted
20130724 09:35:25< trademark_> and it also will be useful for translation (I guess).
20130724 09:35:32< shadowm> That seems like overengineering things to me.
20130724 09:36:11< shadowm> In particular given that this appears to suddenly introduce the requirement that started this conversation for that unique specific purpose.
20130724 09:37:28< trademark_> with this tool, everybody could easily describe error and generate associated code. It's a generic tool
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20130724 09:38:03< shadowm> It would be presumably less complicated and more useful in the long term to just have the ability to send a signal to the server to unbind the listening port so that a new instance can be started while the old instance tends to pending requests.
20130724 09:39:10< shadowm> So far the standard throughout all of Wesnoth is that user-visible error messages are hardcoded in C++ and subjected to xgettext string collection during pot build time.
20130724 09:39:44< shadowm> wesnothd server-to-client messages are additionally allowed to be translated on the client side through an additional mechanism including unique numeric identifiers.
20130724 09:40:59< shadowm> Anyway, the various WML tools in data/tools use different modules from data/tools/wesnoth to do WML parsing.
20130724 09:41:17< shadowm> That's all I really know about the mess within.
20130724 09:41:23< trademark_> I'll hardcoded them so
20130724 09:41:46< trademark_> (but I really don't know why I'm still reading all this books..)
20130724 09:42:11< shadowm> I didn't quite understand any of that but okay.
20130724 09:43:18< trademark_> that idea to generate code, it comes from books, that's all.
20130724 09:44:02< shadowm> An important thing to keep in mind at all times is the costs and benefits of an idea, no matter how clever it seems.
20130724 09:44:23< shadowm> I personally don't think anyone will be changing error messages that often without rebuilding the server software.
20130724 09:45:55< trademark_> aside this fact, I though it was cleaner
20130724 09:45:57< shadowm> So... you want to invent a new kind of wheel that might not be all that useful in the long term, and for that you want to use Python to parse WML even though the server software is written in C++ and also able to parse WML (in addition to just being able to use hardcoded strings).
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20130724 09:46:15< shadowm> There is something amiss in that logic, but it might just be that I don't have the full picture yet.
20130724 09:47:04< trademark_> Python or C++ doesn't matter, it's just because it's easier to write generator in Python
20130724 09:47:58< shadowm> Okay, so you want to _generate_ WML in Python, not _parse_ it.
20130724 09:48:19< trademark_> no
20130724 09:48:28< trademark_> to write code generator in Python
20130724 09:48:43< shadowm> You said that at the beginning and then showed me a WML snippet.
20130724 09:49:04< trademark_> yep, because you parse the WML to generate the associated code
20130724 09:49:13< shadowm> The input WML, okay. What would the output be?
20130724 09:49:17< shadowm> *input is
20130724 09:49:20< trademark_> source code
20130724 09:49:24< trademark_> hpp/cpp files
20130724 09:49:45< shadowm> How does this solve the C++ rebuild issue you presented as justification at the beginning?
20130724 09:52:01< trademark_> well, in fact there are two things, the first is that I don't want to repeat myself in code and in WML, that's why I'd use a code generator. The seconds is that I need the data to be in a WML file, to be able to modify it whenever I want (even if it's not as useful as I first though)
20130724 09:52:46< trademark_> the code generator stuff doesn't solve the C++ rebuild issue, sorry I mess up my explanations
20130724 09:53:08< shadowm> I don't quite get why this has to be both in C++ and WML.
20130724 09:53:48< trademark_> you agree that you can't modify hardcoded message?
20130724 09:53:59< shadowm> That's what hardcoded means, yes.
20130724 09:54:16< trademark_> that's why we "need" WML
20130724 09:54:37< shadowm> But the messages also exist in C++ somehow?
20130724 09:55:34< trademark_> in static variables I guess
20130724 09:57:22< trademark_> well, this discussion just makes me think that a code generator is not really useful in this case.
20130724 09:57:34< trademark_> you win :p
20130724 09:57:52< trademark_> won*
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20130724 11:13:21< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 9c39bbd9162d / / (7 files in 4 dirs): Add a clean error system. http://git.io/7ZjU3g
20130724 11:13:23< irker199> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd ec38c0f517be / src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Use the error condition instead of the messages. http://git.io/cy_nbw
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20130724 13:20:18< AI0867> 06:58 < groggy> anonymissimus, ai0867: both of you have some wmllint commits on master following 1.10.0 that weren't backported to master <-- 'backporting' specifically refers to porting to an older version. The correct word here is just 'porting'
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20130724 13:20:55< AI0867> ah, okay, now I read the following lines too
20130724 13:23:07< AI0867> Also, I seem to have just one commit (a1e5070ab6bddcaa2) that doesn't depend on 1.11 features
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20130724 14:11:51< irker199> wesnoth: anonymissimus wesnoth-old:master 868f85ac9e60 / src/generators/yamg/yamg_params.cpp: mute some MSVC warnings http://git.io/AKU0EQ
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20130724 16:25:15< Trademark> what is the version of the mysql C++ connector installed on the Wesnoth server?
20130724 16:28:17< AI0867> Trademark: looks like 3.0.9 to me
20130724 16:44:34< Trademark> AI0867, and the version of MySQL?
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20130724 18:21:24< Trademark> AI0867, I just figure out that the last release of the C++ connector was 1.1.3
20130724 18:26:39< AI0867> must have been looking at the wrong thing then
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20130724 18:28:01< AI0867> Trademark: libmysqlcppconn4 is not installed
20130724 18:28:30< AI0867> the package at 3.0.9 is libmysql++3
20130724 18:29:06< AI0867> mysql-server is at 5.1.66
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20130724 18:43:28< Trademark> AI0867, okay thank
20130724 18:43:33< Trademark> +s
20130724 18:50:04< Trademark> well a last thing, is libmysql++3 refers to the C API? Not sure to which doc it refers, but if I look inside server/form_user_handler.cpp for example, I can see some C function calls
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20130724 19:29:34< mordante> servus
20130724 19:30:32< AI0867> Trademark: I have no idea
20130724 19:37:58< mordante> lipkab I have a branch with some work-arounds to compile with SDL 2.0, but not commit worthy yet
20130724 19:38:55< mordante> lipkab SDL 1.2 and 2.0 are different kind of beasts and probably if we want to move to SDL 2.0 we need to/should rewrite a lot
20130724 19:39:09< Trademark> mordante, hello
20130724 19:39:15< mordante> hi Trademark 
20130724 19:40:25< Trademark> I've got few questions, are you available now?
20130724 19:41:26< mordante> Trademark, yes I'm available now, not sure how long, very hot here :-(
20130724 19:42:31< Trademark> 32° here too
20130724 19:43:24< Trademark> do you know something about the current mysql connector used?
20130724 19:43:41< Trademark> in the multi-player server
20130724 19:44:30< Trademark> because it seems to be a C connector (from the library libmysql++3)
20130724 19:45:28< mordante> no not really, you have a question about it?
20130724 19:45:47< Trademark> should I use this C connector too? Because it's not C++
20130724 19:46:18< Trademark> it'll be harder to make the code clean, implement connection pools and other stuff
20130724 19:46:34< Trademark> (I guess)
20130724 19:48:29< mordante> How hard would it be to add a small RAII wrapper?
20130724 19:48:54< Trademark> Then, I know you already said the SOCI was too young/unstable, but it already implements connection pools facilities, and I'm sure I could not do a better job (SOCI is widely tested among other system).
20130724 19:49:16< Trademark> I don't know but why losing time to do that?
20130724 19:50:19< Trademark> I already re-implement a concurrent logger, and I through it was a little module, that would takes several hours, but it at least takes 2 days to complete and think about the concurrency issues.
20130724 19:50:49< Trademark> so if I always need to re-implement stuff, it'll be hard to finish in time the work
20130724 19:52:39< Trademark> and a -small- RAII wrapper doesn't stand here, we're speaking of dozens of functionalities. And I'm not going to do a "god class" if I must do it.
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20130724 20:07:04< mordante> Indeed god-classes are not a good idea
20130724 20:07:50< mordante> SOCI is indeed too new
20130724 20:08:24< Trademark> otherwise you have OTL (http://otl.sourceforge.net/)
20130724 20:08:42< Trademark> it's not new
20130724 20:09:25< mordante> I'll have a look at it
20130724 20:10:12< Trademark> I need to know this fast, so I'll begin the database phase
20130724 20:10:36< mordante> my food is almost ready, will look in about half an hour
20130724 20:10:45< Trademark> okay
20130724 20:10:49< Trademark> I have other questions too
20130724 20:11:26< mordante> best post them here or in a query, then I'll have a look after dinner
20130724 20:11:37< Trademark> ok! thanks
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20130724 20:18:14< mcwise> gah I want food too
20130724 20:18:28< mcwise> but first is studying then is eating
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20130724 21:45:20< mordante> I'm off bye
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20130724 21:58:11< irker322> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master 697435009b86 / src/generators/yamg/ya_mapgen.cpp: Remove old-style-casts. http://git.io/xj7acg
20130724 21:58:12< irker322> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master 539bbf4c5985 / src/tests/gui/test_gui2.cpp: Fix a broken include path. http://git.io/yukFyA
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20130724 22:31:26< id_steamhater> Good evening to you :) I'm the Community Representative of Russian Wesnoth site (wesnothlife.ru), and I'd like to ask the Devs a few questions from our community concerning the future of the game. Can I speak with you regarding those questions?
20130724 22:34:58< Ivanovic> just ask some questions and stay around for the answers
20130724 22:35:25< id_steamhater> Thank you. Wait a sec, I'll translate them to English
20130724 22:35:25< Ivanovic> not everyone might answer directly (irc is not 100% instant)
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20130724 22:40:34< id_steamhater> 1) Both Russian and international community seems to be losing players. We do suspect this is directly related to your blatant reluctance to support competitive gameplay. Why don't you agree that your current policy is faulty and change it? Many players thinks that such kind of policy isn't good but bad for community? Thank you.
20130724 22:42:45< id_steamhater> 2) We do think that should Wesnoth core gameplay elements remain unchanged any further, there might be a propability of that some group of people will fork Wesnoth to import competitive gameplay elements, etc. into mainline. We'd like to know your positions concerning this question.
20130724 22:46:41< loonycyborg> Eh, no idea what exactly competetive gameplay means even
20130724 22:47:02< loonycyborg> But forks happen often, it's the way of life
20130724 22:47:18< id_steamhater> Competitive gameplay = ladder and ranking system
20130724 22:49:16< loonycyborg> It already exists as a side project.
20130724 22:50:12< id_steamhater> Thanks, but our community is interested of adding such functionality into ml.
20130724 22:50:25< zookeeper> as for 2), people are free to fork wesnoth... that's pretty much all there is to it. if one wants to see if any individual wesnoth devs want to collaborate on that, one could seek them in the experimental corner: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=36
20130724 22:52:10< id_steamhater> 3) Do you plan to expand the ingame lore and Wesnoth universe?
20130724 22:52:40< Ivanovic> the ingame lore is mainly based upon what is there in the campaigns
20130724 22:53:10< Ivanovic> so in case we add another campaign (might happen if one of us thinks one is good enough and ready to be added and will be maintained), then the lore is also extended
20130724 22:53:41< Ivanovic> re 1): there are other games out there without ladder and those also work, for wesnoth it was an intentional decission to not have a ladder
20130724 22:54:02< Ivanovic> 2) what speaks against forks?
20130724 22:54:27< Ivanovic> we are not folks sitting on the sources saying "any change is bad"
20130724 22:54:55< Ivanovic> it is just that we tend to implement those things we are interested in getting done (especially considering that we are not paid and do so in our free time)
20130724 22:55:08< Ivanovic> so whenever someone feels strong enough about doing something they are free to do so
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20130724 22:56:10< id_steamhater> Concerning 2): I mean, what's your position? Do you see the very fact of forking Wesnoth like a challenge, or would you take a closer look upon the fork and consider of taking some part (or the entire fork) into mainline?
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20130724 22:59:18< zookeeper> i'm sure that porting changes from a fork is always a possibility, if the fork shows that we've been wrong about competitiveness after all.
20130724 23:00:08< id_steamhater> Thanks.
20130724 23:01:43< anonymissimus> groggy: there are possibly some wmllint commits of mine that I didn't backport due to the needed branchswitch+rebuild and testing; often I have reasons for doint or not doing something however
20130724 23:02:48< anonymissimus> so many commits probably aren't suitable for backporting as they relate to changes in the engine which took place in the 1.11 branch only
20130724 23:03:08< id_steamhater> Well, and one last question. Can you give us Russian players a few words?
20130724 23:03:52< lipkab> Hello Russia!
20130724 23:03:58< anonymissimus> groggy: you seem to be doing a great job of making wmllint work better on windows!
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20130724 23:06:00< id_steamhater> Thanks, and goodbye!
20130724 23:07:35< lipkab> Bye.
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 25 00:00:19 2013