--- Log opened Fri Aug 02 00:00:41 2013
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20130802 00:25:25< wajeemba> has an easy way to unlock all unit descriptions been added since 1.6, or do I have to go and find that text file to edit?..
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20130802 00:41:23< AI0867> :discover
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20130802 00:46:48< shadowm> Preferences -> Advanced -> Show all unit types in help
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20130802 02:03:06< A_Guy> Okay, so far I have a mission to take down a leader of a group of outlaws who was formerly a commanding officer in the Wesnoth army.
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20130802 03:11:18< A_Guy> I see that some of the timeline info has been sourced from IftU. How canon is it?
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20130802 03:11:35< shadowm> What timeline?
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20130802 03:19:56< A_Guy> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Timeline_of_Wesnoth
20130802 03:20:04< A_Guy> Setting details derived from:
20130802 03:20:06< A_Guy>     Invasion from the Unknown 
20130802 03:20:15< shadowm> Ah yes, only the world's name is from there.
20130802 03:20:21< A_Guy> Ah.
20130802 03:20:38< shadowm> And it is actually mentioned once or twice in mainline.
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20130802 03:20:47< A_Guy> Uh-huh, thanks.
20130802 03:20:57< A_Guy> So canonically, Malin still exists?
20130802 03:21:29< shadowm> Canonically, I'd say the ending of DiD is not conclusive because the player can choose to quit after a few iterations.
20130802 03:22:15< shadowm> So... not canonically, I guess. :p
20130802 03:22:17< vultraz> A_Guy: for practical reasons, he's always there
20130802 03:22:19< vultraz> at least AtS implies so
20130802 03:22:20< vultraz> bc he's there
20130802 03:22:22< vultraz> :P
20130802 03:22:23< vultraz> (lame sentence is lame)
20130802 03:22:28< shadowm> vultraz: No, we are talking about mainline canon here.
20130802 03:22:55< shadowm> DiD's ending is just too open to know for sure IMO, which is okay since he doesn't have any influence on mainline.
20130802 03:23:28< vultraz> DiD's ending is weird
20130802 03:23:31< vultraz> you have to lose to win
20130802 03:23:55< shadowm> I said above that you can choose to quit after a few iterations.
20130802 03:24:30< shadowm> I personally wouldn't expect many people to play the same scenario over and over with marginal differences each time, that's just ridiculou design.
20130802 03:26:26< A_Guy> Okay, thanks.
20130802 03:26:37< vultraz> I played it like 3 times before catching on that it would never end
20130802 03:27:06< A_Guy> Where on the map was his cave?
20130802 03:28:54< shadowm> Unless that is mentioned in some commented-out line in the WML files, probably nowhere in particular.
20130802 03:29:28< A_Guy> Uh-huh, thanks.
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20130802 04:11:49< A_Guy> So does outlawing in Wesnoth work like it did in historic times?
20130802 04:13:23< AI0867> it hasn't been thoroughly desribed
20130802 04:13:27< AI0867> so we don't know yet =P
20130802 04:14:22< A_Guy> In historic times, outlawing someone was saying "we won't execute you ourselves, we'll empower everyone else to do it though"
20130802 04:14:47< A_Guy> Which was pretty much a death sentence in practice if you couldn't find refuge.
20130802 04:16:58< AI0867> I know
20130802 04:17:23< AI0867> "you are no longer protected by the laws of this country"
20130802 04:17:48< A_Guy> Ah, so that's not what you meant.
20130802 04:25:11< AI0867> it has not been described (other than the concept existing) in any campaigns that I know of, so we don't really know, though you can assume it means the same thing as the historical version
20130802 04:25:32< A_Guy> Uh-huh, thanks.
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20130802 04:57:29< shadowm> The dwarf equivalent has been done onscreen, though.
20130802 04:58:19< vultraz> "YOU ARE UN-DWARF" or something
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20130802 04:58:35< shadowm> Yes, by a Dwarvish Witness.
20130802 04:59:03< shadowm> Their role seems to be both that of a historian and a judge.
20130802 05:00:43< _8680_> “Judged by history”?
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20130802 05:17:36< irker705> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:1.10 16edccd956d2 / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: activate wildcard globbing on Windows http://git.io/_CQYsA
20130802 05:17:37< irker705> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:1.10 a9e7e475a6c4 / data/tools/wmllint: Windows sys.argv again: sys.exit(2) when too complicated, and deliver an explana http://git.io/jOGX6w
20130802 05:18:15< irker705> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master a10b2d5f3c01 / src/addon/manager.cpp: push_back Windows-style "Copy of" backup files http://git.io/KiE3XA
20130802 05:19:19< shadowm> groggy: Those are not necessarily backup files, and they are subject to localization.
20130802 05:19:28< shadowm> For example, in Spanish it's "Copia de %s".
20130802 05:20:47< groggy> yes, im aware they differ by localization
20130802 05:21:24< shadowm> They are not automatically created either.
20130802 05:21:24< groggy> ive also seen copie and Kopie
20130802 05:22:10< groggy> under what circumstances would someone legitimately want to include those in an upload?
20130802 05:22:10< shadowm> So, could you revert that commit?
20130802 05:23:23< shadowm> Under the circumstances that they are either too lazy to rename a file or didn't notice that those extra files were there. I'd still prefer if we didn't encourage populating that list with items that aren't created automatically without the user's consent.
20130802 05:23:37< shadowm> Copying files using the shell is a thing that the user does of their own accord.
20130802 05:24:28< groggy> ok...
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20130802 05:34:36< irker705> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master 2448d099f661 / src/addon/manager.cpp: revert last commit (push_back "Copy of") per IRC discussion with shadowmaster http://git.io/MtUdnA
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20130802 05:55:20< A_Guy> Remind me why IftU isn't mainline again?
20130802 05:55:45< A_Guy> shadowm I summon thee!
20130802 05:56:01< A_Guy> I think you told me why, but I can't remember.
20130802 05:56:08< shadowm> Because it's not really mainline-quality and I don't want it to be in mainline.
20130802 05:58:03< shadowm> That's the short version. The long version would be a full essay.
20130802 05:58:12< A_Guy> Uh-huh.
20130802 06:00:16< groggy> you do have your rewound blog...
20130802 06:01:49< shadowm> Oh well, yes, but I'm too lazy.
20130802 06:02:17< shadowm> I've been meaning to write a post on the matter for a while, really, but I've been busy with all kinds of stuff as of late.
20130802 06:03:07< groggy> yeah its like youre everywhere at all times... hard to believe you ever sleep!
20130802 06:03:43< shadowm> Ehm, yeah, this IRC client runs on a server 24/7 so it's not indicative of anything.
20130802 06:05:30< A_Guy> Do ghouls feel pain?
20130802 06:08:13< groggy> A_Guy: on other occasions, shadowm has stated that higher ups in the project don't like some parts of the story becoming canon
20130802 06:09:17< groggy> also that once it went into mainline, he'd no longer be the exclusive author, and his prose would be subject to being butchered by esr
20130802 06:09:50< A_Guy> Uh-huh, that makes sense.
20130802 06:10:26< shadowm> Funnily enough I'm currently butchering my own prose because it was horrible.
20130802 06:10:57< shadowm> I just didn't have a clue about writing (both linguistically and narratively speaking) back then.
20130802 06:12:49< vultraz> That's kinda obvious in the fact that AtS E1 had many many grammar errors, whereas E3 had barely any
20130802 06:13:21< vultraz> (well, it did, but minor)
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20130802 06:13:37< vultraz> (E1 had major ones)
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20130802 17:14:53< A_Guy> Is there any way to have the AI dedicate some if its recruited units to proactively defending a location?
20130802 17:14:58< A_Guy> In 1.11
20130802 17:15:36< A_Guy> All I can think of is forcing some units to get a goto_x,goto_y and changing ai_special to guardian once they get there.
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20130802 18:09:07< A_Guy> Do you think a group of outlaws having spearmen in their recruit list could make sense thematically?
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20130802 18:11:18< zookeeper> A_Guy, i guess they could, but personally i'd probably rather just frankenstein a spear-wielding outlaw
20130802 18:11:51< A_Guy> Soon as I figure out how to frankenstein.
20130802 18:11:58< zookeeper> oh.
20130802 18:11:59< A_Guy> Guess today's as good a day as any to learn.
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20130802 18:26:49< A_Guy> So does the new editor make a .cfg file like the one you'd see in a regular scenario?
20130802 18:27:24< bumbadadabum> A_Guy: That's one of 1.11's new features
20130802 18:27:47< A_Guy> Uh-huh. So I can make units in it, save it, and edit it like I would a regular .cfg?
20130802 18:27:56< bumbadadabum> A_Guy: Technically
20130802 18:28:03< bumbadadabum> the wml it generates isn't too pretty
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20130802 18:37:21< A_Guy> I get an error for empty unit type field when I try to bring over side 1 with just the save id
20130802 18:37:36< A_Guy> And a new leader replaces the previous leader when I do include a unit type
20130802 18:40:42< A_Guy> Do I have to recall the leader in a prestart event?
20130802 18:42:42 * zookeeper doesn't know
20130802 18:42:45< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd e1cd778d4ad3 / src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Add a sql_type visitor, this will help for the constraint (and more particularly http://git.io/YtGknQ
20130802 18:42:47< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 70d856ee6eab / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/sql_parser.cpp: Add unsigned digit token, use it to describe the length of a varchar. http://git.io/-xJdQw
20130802 18:42:49< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 9aaf61730059 / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/sql_parser.cpp: Attributed the default value rule. http://git.io/_ndq_Q
20130802 18:42:51< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd c4108e8b5830 / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/ (sql_parser.cpp sql_type_constraint.hpp): Add semantic actions for the type constraint. http://git.io/r5m9DQ
20130802 18:42:53< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 420f7b0c848a / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/sql_parser.cpp: Add auto rule for the column definition. http://git.io/T5cdnw
20130802 18:42:55< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd 25d47c3adcb6 / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/sql_parser.cpp: Rename some rules, add auto rule for the table columns. http://git.io/wPvZ5w
20130802 18:42:57< irker705> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd c63e8915b499 / src/tools/code_generator/sql2cpp/sql_parser.cpp: Add rule for the table creation. http://git.io/L74erw
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20130802 18:45:04< A_Guy> Nevermind, got it
20130802 18:45:12< A_Guy> I forgot to include the leader's id
20130802 18:45:18< A_Guy> Just id=
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20130802 19:06:19< A_Guy> Odd, the game doesn't scroll back to the relevant unit if you scroll somewhere else in last breath.
20130802 19:06:24< A_Guy> I could've sworn it did before?
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20130802 19:11:38< A_Guy> Warson got outlawed on Orion.
20130802 19:11:47< A_Guy> Wrong chat, oops.
20130802 19:18:01< A_Guy> So, I'm planing on having two of the supporting characters become undead units - the main character, who will be undead himself at this point, will be given more insight into the nature of the undead through his relation with the supporting characters.
20130802 19:18:36< A_Guy> Should I keep those units mission-critical, or let the player get them killed and reward the extra story to those who keep them alive?
20130802 19:19:08< AI0867> both ways can work
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20130802 19:20:00< A_Guy> Uh-huh, thanks.
20130802 19:21:58< A_Guy> A question - if a unit is excluded from the attacks facet, will the AI not even think about engaging it, or will it still posture to engage it, without actually attacking it?
20130802 19:24:13< A_Guy> Be back later
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20130802 20:55:48< A_Guy> Hey.
20130802 20:57:29< lipkab> Hi.
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20130802 21:32:30< A_Guy> So how does one go about using micro AIs?
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20130802 21:33:33< A_Guy> Hmm
20130802 21:33:42< A_Guy> I think I'll get the hang of it.
20130802 21:34:08< bumbadadabum> A_Guy: I don't want to be a party pooper, but those questions belong in #wesnoth-umc-dev rather than #wesnoth-dev
20130802 21:36:36< A_Guy> Oh, interesting.
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20130802 21:42:35< zookeeper> maybe general WML questions, but if i had questions of devfeatures, i'd ask here since the relevant devs are more likely to be found here
20130802 21:43:13< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: I always ask about micro ais in umc-dev
20130802 21:43:20< zookeeper> oh
20130802 21:44:37< bumbadadabum> A_Guy: Anyway, the usage of the ais in documented on the wiki
20130802 21:44:55< bumbadadabum> alternatively, you can look at the test scenarios for examples
20130802 21:45:34< A_Guy> Yeah, I found the wiki page.
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20130802 22:11:48< A_Guy> Success!
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20130802 22:57:58< lipkab> Gambit: Did you ever consider including the multi-selector code I posted in the forums in GambCiv?
20130802 22:58:47< Gambit> The what?
20130802 23:00:09< lipkab> Gambit: This http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=34926&start=90#p547542
20130802 23:03:29< Gambit> lipkab: Ah. No I have other plans.
20130802 23:03:49< lipkab> Ok.
20130802 23:04:05< Gambit> lipkab: Basically you'll be able to right click on a peasant and do all of an action in range.
20130802 23:04:08< Gambit> Or on your leader.
20130802 23:04:28< Gambit> Which will do all of an action in range of all your peasants.
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 03 00:00:45 2013