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20130819 05:08:21< irker761> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master d90f082312a6 / data/tools/wmlindent: wmlindent: fix pango indentation-stopping bug (pointed out by vultraz) http://git.io/7hl3Pw
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20130819 05:09:25< vultraz> :D
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20130819 11:40:32< trademark_> AI0867, or anyone else, is there any facilities to implement the observer design pattern (such as subject or observer abstract class) in Wesnoth?
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20130819 14:41:22< AI0867> trademark_: I believe the whiteboard uses it, but I don't think we have any internal libraries or the like to facilitate that
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20130819 15:42:53< trademark_> AI0867, ok :-) thanks!
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20130819 15:46:06< AI0867> er, I think I completely misread 'observer' as 'visitor' … somehow. I don't think we have an obsever pattern anywhere
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20130819 15:50:51< Crab_> flix: hello!
20130819 16:05:21< thunderstruck> Crab_: Hello. Mind if I answer your question here?
20130819 16:05:27< Crab_> thunderstruck: sure
20130819 16:06:36< thunderstruck> Crab_: I want to make sure that you agree with this: http://git.io/TTzSBA.
20130819 16:07:02< thunderstruck> I believe I mentioned to you about in one of the emails, but I don't recall you saying anything.
20130819 16:07:33< thunderstruck> And I want to make sure, because I did differently when you suggested.
20130819 16:08:56< Crab_> thunderstruck: yes, I've seen that part of the code. I suggested putting the data in carryover info simply because it is properly serialized. but this way would work as well. can you remind me, are mp_game_settings written into the savegame?
20130819 16:10:15< thunderstruck> Crab_: I have to check that myself to be honest.
20130819 16:10:38< thunderstruck> I've put that data in mp settings, because it's just an MP thing.
20130819 16:10:58< thunderstruck> However, I don't mind putting them in different place if that's better.
20130819 16:11:12< Crab_> Basically, we want the save game (e.g. autosaves, or manual saves) to contain this info. if it's in there, all's good, it works.
20130819 16:11:22< lipkab> "can you remind me, are mp_game_settings written into the savegame?" <- Yes.
20130819 16:11:28< Crab_> lipkab: thanks.
20130819 16:12:19< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, if it works during scenario change and during load of autosave or manual save (even if sides were reassigned during the scenario), that's all we need from the player-to-side mapping
20130819 16:13:08< thunderstruck> Crab_: Well, it should work anyway, because that data from mp_game_settings are written directly to the config.
20130819 16:13:19< thunderstruck> So it should go into the save config as well.
20130819 16:13:22< Crab_> thunderstruck: ok, good.
20130819 16:13:42< Crab_> thunderstruck: just check it, if you haven't already, with autosave, manual save, and scenario transition.
20130819 16:15:15< thunderstruck> Ok, I'll double check that.
20130819 16:15:24< Crab_> good. anything else?
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20130819 16:17:26< Crab_> thunderstruck: if you think about something else later, just ping me via email. now it's time that there's only a few weeks left, so we need to make sure every piece adds up and we have it all working in the end.
20130819 16:20:52< thunderstruck> Crab_: Alright. I don't think I've anything to ask about at the moment. I'm going to fix a problem with carryover and mp::connect_engine. This should be a last step to make mp::connect between scenarios complete
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20130819 16:22:15< Crab_> thunderstruck: ok. do you need the campaign/scenarios code to be modified for it to work? (e.g. would it be possible to test it with LoW immediately or WML changes would be required to enable it?)
20130819 16:22:57< trademark_> AI0867, okay, after some reading, I'm gonna use boost.signal2 that is, IHMO, better than a trivial observer DP as we don't need abstract classes.
20130819 16:23:44< thunderstruck> Crab_: It should be possible to test it with LoW as it is. These changes apply to both, new and old WML for MP campaigns.
20130819 16:24:45< Crab_> thunderstruck: ok. please ping me when it'll be done - I would like to try it out on LoW (including testing the case where there's one more human side in some scenarios)
20130819 16:26:09< thunderstruck> Crab_: Ok. It shouldn't take long if everything goes well.
20130819 16:26:13< Crab_> great!
20130819 16:26:17< Crab_> fabi: ^
20130819 16:27:15< thunderstruck> But I shouldn't speak like that too soon. Thins in this project for me usually seem easy at the beginning :)
20130819 16:27:29< thunderstruck> And later I will find that there are a lot of factors to consider.
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20130819 16:30:20< Crab_> thunderstruck: well, I think that you'll make it working in the end :)
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20130819 16:51:00< thunderstruck> Crab_: Carryover for both SP and MP work the same way, right?
20130819 16:51:23< Crab_> thunderstruck: yes, the code is the same
20130819 16:52:07< Crab_> thunderstruck: some defaults might be different, but the basic two parts are the same. (1) collect game state to carryover info after the scenario is over but data is still there.
20130819 16:52:26< Crab_> (2) take new scenario config, and 'apply' carryover info to it to actually do the carryover
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20130819 16:58:43< thunderstruck> Crab_: In order to display mp::connect correctly for non-first scenarios I would need to apply carryover when setting the mp::connect_engine.
20130819 16:59:36< Crab_> do carryover on scenario config before showing the mp::connect dialog?
20130819 16:59:51< thunderstruck> Yes, I don't see a better option at the moment.
20130819 17:00:17< Crab_> well, it has to be done before if we want to display proper leaders in mp::connect
20130819 17:02:21< Crab_> e.g. if player has levelled up leader in scenario1, scenario2 won't know about it unless we do the carryover
20130819 17:02:59< thunderstruck> Crab_: yes, but there are other thing(s).
20130819 17:03:03< Crab_> which?
20130819 17:03:05< thunderstruck> E.g. gold.
20130819 17:03:51< Crab_> what about gold?
20130819 17:04:09< thunderstruck> It changes after carryover and mp::connect needs to reflect that.
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20130819 17:05:02< Crab_> yes. won't this happen automatically if mp::connect will operate on post-carryover level config?
20130819 17:05:44< Crab_> we only need to find a way to let mp::connect know that a particular side can choose a faction/leader in mp::connect.
20130819 17:05:49< thunderstruck> Yes, it's the same as with leader.
20130819 17:06:35< Crab_> so, some sides are bound to specific leader and recruit list (so mp::connect should not allow changes), and some sides are open (so mp::connect should allow the changes)
20130819 17:06:57< thunderstruck> and there's also the use case when side dies
20130819 17:07:13< thunderstruck> But it might resume, so it might be able to choose a faction etc.
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20130819 17:08:00< thunderstruck> Although, I'm not too sure about this. What should happen if one of the players dies?
20130819 17:08:22< thunderstruck> player's hero die*
20130819 17:08:37< thunderstruck> Currently, it still can control his other units (if any).
20130819 17:08:43< thunderstruck> And that is a bit strange.
20130819 17:09:12< Crab_> well, scenario1 should decide what to do with the 'dead' side. for example, it should have a way to say " the side which 'dies' should not be carried over"
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20130819 17:09:44< Crab_> then, scenario2 won't see this side as bound to specific leader and faction, and if scenario 2 allows faction/leader choice for sides which are not carried over, the player would be able to select a new faction/leader
20130819 17:10:19< Crab_> so, there are two parts if we go with this approach - (1) getting the right carryover info (without the dead side)
20130819 17:10:36< Crab_> (and it's up to the previous scenario to make sure the dead side is not carried over)
20130819 17:10:59< Crab_> that needs to happen in-or-before that  '(1) collect game state to carryover info after the scenario is over but data is still there' part
20130819 17:12:12< Crab_> and the second part is to find a way for scenario2 to require choice of new faction and leader if it is not carried over.
20130819 17:12:33< Crab_> that seems like a good start that can be improved later
20130819 17:13:04< thunderstruck> Ok. But that could be dependant on objectives, right?
20130819 17:13:13< thunderstruck> E.g. Lose if any of the Team1 leader dies?
20130819 17:13:15< Crab_> right. I think that we shouldn't be concerned with what happens in-scenario if one of the players dies - that's up to scenario to decie.
20130819 17:13:19< Crab_> *decide
20130819 17:13:56< Crab_> but we should provide a way to 'not carryover this side' (e.g. if it has lost this leader or if scenario decided that a particular side shouldn't be carried over
20130819 17:19:29< thunderstruck> Crab_: Maybe we should always maintain carryover information for sides, but do the check to see if side is in scenario if required?
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20130819 17:20:20< thunderstruck> Note that the side could be in 1st and 3rd scenarios, but not in 2nd.
20130819 17:20:26< Crab_> thunderstruck: where that check should be done and what it should affect?
20130819 17:20:44< Crab_> thunderstruck: as of now, if side is in 1st and 3rd scenarios, it'll be carried over normally during the 2nd scenario
20130819 17:21:22< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, it's not about a side being present, it's more about the side 'dying' in some scenario-specific way (e.g. leader loss, by default)
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20130819 17:21:47< thunderstruck> Crab_: You're right. I got a bit confused.
20130819 17:21:47< Crab_> if side is not present in scenario2, it's not going to die during scenario2 (unless the scenario2 has a specific way of marking it as 'dead')
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20130819 17:22:45< Crab_> I think that it should work is a similar way to the current 'loss' logic - which is triggered by leader loss by default but can be overridden by scenario
20130819 17:23:48< Crab_> ah no, that's different, sorry (I was thinking about victory_when_enemies_defeated but it only governs victory, it doesn't prevent loss)
20130819 17:24:19< Crab_> thunderstruck: so then maybe add a way for a side to be marked as 'dead' or 'alive' for carryover purposes?
20130819 17:24:50< Crab_> and add a flag like 'remove_from_carryover_on_leader_loss' (default yes)
20130819 17:25:34< Crab_> so, by default the  side won't be carried over if it loses the leader, but if the scenario would set this toplevel flag to false, then it'll be able to override this by WML events
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20130819 17:26:02< Crab_> and your code will only look at that flag and on per-side status
20130819 17:26:20< thunderstruck> Crab_: Yes, it could work this way.
20130819 17:26:24< Crab_> that would allow to store exactly what we want in carryover
20130819 17:26:47< thunderstruck> Crab_: if side is not dead, but also not currently in this scenario, is it alive?
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20130819 17:27:13< Crab_> thunderstruck: sides should be carried over by current default
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20130819 17:27:46< Crab_> thunderstruck:  currently it is:  "persistent: whether the side exists in any other scenarios. If yes, then save_id (see below) is used to identify the side in other scenarios. Defaults to yes for sides with a human controller, and no for ai controlled sides."
20130819 17:28:13< Crab_> thunderstruck: that's for sides which are present in the scenario. the sides which were carried over before are also persistent
20130819 17:28:19< Crab_> thunderstruck: scenario should be able to explicitly 'drop'
20130819 17:28:33< Crab_> ... such as side, even if it's not in scenario, by referencing it's save id
20130819 17:28:56< Crab_> thunderstruck: but, it should not be dropped by the fact of leader loss, since it's not present in the scenario so losing the leader is not possible
20130819 17:29:42< flix> Crab_: hi!
20130819 17:29:42< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, the side is not dead but also not currently in this scenario, it's alive (until the scenario would explicitly say it should be marked as dead)
20130819 17:29:46< Crab_> flix: hello!
20130819 17:30:19< Crab_> thunderstruck: of course the scenario can mark a side as dead, then as alive, then as dead again, and so on. what matters is the final status (when we'll collect the carryover info at scenario end)
20130819 17:31:04< Crab_> thunderstruck: 'remove_from_carryover_on_leader_loss' should only do 'lost leader? mark as dead' repeatable event
20130819 17:31:51< flix> Crab_: I've just read your mail. I finished to implement and test Counter recruitment and money-saving strategies and will commit them today. 
20130819 17:32:42< Crab_> flix: that's great. I also wanted you to start working on the configuration parts, since it's about time - I'd like to see a draft documentation for that (e.g. just a list of ideas of what you want to make configurable)
20130819 17:33:17< thunderstruck> Crab_: Ok. Thanks for all advices and explanations. I will need to study some code so that I could be sure about the big picture of this.
20130819 17:34:00< Crab_> thunderstruck: ok. just think of carryover info as the list of all 'unused persistent sides' for a scenario
20130819 17:34:38< Crab_> thunderstruck: and, when we do 'take from carryover and apply it to level config', we actually remove stuff from carryover info
20130819 17:34:49< Crab_> thunderstruck: so a side with a given side id is either 'in play' or 'in carryover'
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20130819 17:35:33< Crab_> thunderstruck: so, if you add some way to 'mark save_id as dead' / 'mark save id as alive' which would work for those 2 types of sides, with a reasonable default, that would work.
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20130819 17:36:24< Crab_> thunderstruck: and on the other side you'd only need to figure out how to do the 'no specific faction/leader set? (e.g. because no carryover happened) => allow choice of leader and faction' trick
20130819 17:37:23< thunderstruck> Crab_: I was thinking to compare level config before and after carryover to determine this.
20130819 17:37:58< thunderstruck> Crab_: Although, carryover is strictly for every scenario except the first one.
20130819 17:38:30< thunderstruck> Crab_: Ignore the last message.
20130819 17:38:32< Crab_> thunderstruck: even the first one might have the faction and leader selected (LoW, for example) or not (world-conquest type of scenario)
20130819 17:38:52< Crab_> thunderstruck: so it's more about the final just-before-the-mp-connect state 
20130819 17:39:47< flix> Crab_: Yes, there's still this wikipage: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Flixx/Configuration_Specifications . Today I will update this page. I'll notify you as soon I'm finished, and then it would be great if you could take a look at it.
20130819 17:40:12< Crab_> flix: I'll take a look, ping me when ready.
20130819 17:40:36< Crab_> flix: thanks
20130819 17:46:47< flix> Crab_: Btw: The Counter-recruitment / money saving strategies I implemented are quite cool. Now the AI will not spent all money at once but rather recruit "waves". If the parameters are configured correctly, the AI will recruit very defensive. (So the "waves" are big enough to defense but not to kill the enemies leader). Optionally the AI will start a big offensive wave after a predefined amount of money is reached. Although the AI will not 
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20130819 18:10:21< zookeeper> Gallaecio, you're fast with those maps.
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20130819 18:43:37< stikonas> zookeeper: I'm not much slower :)
20130819 18:43:54< stikonas> Descent into Darkness is already translated
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20130819 18:53:31< Crab_> flix: (your message was truncated).
20130819 18:53:38< Crab_> flix: I'll have to go now, sorry
20130819 18:53:40< zookeeper> stikonas, oh, right, i didn't notice. cool.
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20130819 23:10:08< slystone> Hi!
20130819 23:10:57< slystone> Debian user here (under Jessie). I've encountered a bug with Wesnoth. At launch the graphics die, and I get the messaage 'Input Error'.
20130819 23:11:24< slystone> I'm using Wesnoth 1.1.10-6.2
20130819 23:12:08< slystone> I don't know if some other users Have notified this bug under Debian, or if it's just my setup.
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 20 00:00:08 2013