--- Log opened Sun Aug 25 00:00:10 2013
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20130825 08:36:51< mordante> servus
20130825 08:37:36< Espreon> Good morning, sl... err mordante.
20130825 08:38:03< mordante> hi Espreon 
20130825 08:39:42< Espreon> Shall I break his heart: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39241 ?
20130825 08:40:35< Espreon> ... by telling him that a good number of GUI... thingies can't properly shape Arabic (and thus Persian) text.
20130825 08:41:08< Espreon> Well, GUI1, but whatever.
20130825 08:45:33< mordante> I wouldn't there is enough that works and it translating Wesnoth also is not done overnight
20130825 08:46:27< Espreon> All right.
20130825 08:47:44< shadowm> It's also not done within a 2 years timeframe.
20130825 08:48:29< shadowm> Expecting GUI1 to be completely phased out before that translation is complete would be a pipe dream at this point.
20130825 08:48:53< Espreon> Indeed.
20130825 08:49:05< shadowm> But hey, we've had other similarly dysfunctional translations for a while.
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20130825 08:51:55< Espreon> Quite.
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20130825 08:58:33< irker384> wesnoth: Espreon wesnoth-old:master d3b5db8758dc / / (15 files in 14 dirs): Updated the Vietnamese translation. http://git.io/o1HdXQ
20130825 08:58:33< irker384> wesnoth: Espreon wesnoth-old:1.10 08a4225ca78e / / (14 files in 13 dirs): Updated the Vietnamese translation http://git.io/-YSyAg
20130825 09:16:41< Espreon> Would someone please revert 08a4225ca78eb600c3439882ad7f3f65e8249f08? 'Twas a mistake.
20130825 09:16:48< Espreon> And yes, I can't do it myself at the moment, sadly.
20130825 09:17:56< shadowm> Only that commit and not its master analogue?
20130825 09:18:19< shadowm> Espreon: 
20130825 09:20:31< Espreon> Uh, what?
20130825 09:21:24< shadowm> Espreon: There are two commits with the same subject and presumably similar contents.
20130825 09:21:25< Espreon> Ah.
20130825 09:21:28< Espreon> Yes, yes.
20130825 09:21:33< Espreon> Yeah, only the one in 1.10.
20130825 09:21:35< shadowm> d3b5db8758dc on master, 08a4225ca78e on 1.10.
20130825 09:21:37< shadowm> Okay.
20130825 09:23:05< irker384> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:1.10 77cbc1f5b305 / / (14 files in 13 dirs): Revert previous commit on 1.10 by the author's request http://git.io/n9cGsw
20130825 09:23:48< Espreon> Thanks.
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20130825 11:23:07< shadowm> Ivanovic: Seeing as how you are quite obviously struggling with the project and release management process, wouldn't it be advisable to appoint someone else to take care of the release announcements at the very least?
20130825 11:23:38< Ivanovic> shadowm: you (or anyone else) are very welcome to take over this part!
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20130825 11:24:34< shadowm> The thing is that you didn't even post the announcements in Moderators' for review, or if you did you didn't provide anyone with an adequate time window to do that.
20130825 11:25:58< shadowm> It's impossible to tell from one's position whether that's accidental or just intentional because you think you can do it without help.
20130825 11:26:57< shadowm> Additionally, the fact that nobody is using RELEASE_NOTES (and, as I can attest, nobody is watching for "huge groundbreaking changes" worthy of announcement and telling off devs who forget to include them) is more than a bit concerning.
20130825 11:26:58< Ivanovic> it was simply because i had no time before to get the announcement stuff done
20130825 11:27:08< Ivanovic> and once i had the time i was not willing to wait even longer
20130825 11:27:30< shadowm> (Yes, I am complaining because absolutely nobody reminded me to mention the addition of the Dependencies row in Add-ons Manager/Description to RELEASE_NOTES.)
20130825 11:28:12< Ivanovic> uhm, developers that are long term team members should by now know about this file
20130825 11:28:14< Ivanovic> ;)
20130825 11:28:37< shadowm> Knowing isn't the same as keeping it in mind at all times. The latter can be really hard.
20130825 11:28:48< Ivanovic> and other probably though just "okay, so this is not what the dev things big enough for the notes..."
20130825 11:29:04< Ivanovic> do we have some real commit mailing list again?
20130825 11:29:12< shadowm> I don't know. AI0867 ?
20130825 11:29:16< Ivanovic> since this was IMO a great place to keep track also for other devs
20130825 11:29:30< Ivanovic> allowing them to actually see what files changed and which commits lacked those entries
20130825 11:29:58< Ivanovic> (yes, i do personally get mails for commits, but if noone else does the monitoring will not be good...)
20130825 11:30:22< shadowm> I don't know how you get emails for commits? I certainly don't.
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20130825 11:30:52< Ivanovic> my personal email address seems to be entered in some hidden github function
20130825 11:31:04< Ivanovic> but AI0867 mentioned that only ~2 addresses can be listed there or something like that
20130825 11:31:18< Ivanovic> and he already tried making gna.org send those commits but it did not work IIRC
20130825 11:32:21< shadowm> Ah, yes, the email hook.
20130825 11:33:02< shadowm> I think it wouldn't work because the -commits list on gna.org is moderated?
20130825 11:33:16< shadowm> Or rejects all external messages altogether.
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20130825 11:36:00< shadowm> There is this though: https://help.github.com/articles/configuring-notification-emails
20130825 11:36:04< Ivanovic> i checked the interface and was not able to get the whitelist for externals to work
20130825 11:36:25< shadowm> Apparently just logging in and going to https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old and choosing Watch should work.
20130825 11:36:49< shadowm> Although I suspect that'll email me not just commits, but also pull requests and issues (we don't have the latter, fortunately).
20130825 11:37:10< Ivanovic> jepp, i get mails about pull requests as well as commits
20130825 11:37:39< shadowm> That'd be from the hook, not the Watch feature.
20130825 11:37:49< shadowm> Unless you are also Watching the repository, I don't know.
20130825 11:39:05< shadowm> If anyone has staged commits ready for pushing I'd appreciate it a push now. :p
20130825 11:41:57< Ivanovic> okay, i am off for some hours, CU
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20130825 11:44:43< thunderstruck> wesbot: seen fabi 
20130825 11:44:43< wesbot> thunderstruck: Queried user last spoke 6d 17h ago.  fabi is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
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20130825 11:51:45< fabi> hi thunderstruck
20130825 11:52:35< thunderstruck> fabi: Hello. I've wanted to discuss locking some options by default in mp::connect.
20130825 11:52:55< fabi> Okay, I don't have much time, but let's start.
20130825 11:53:28< thunderstruck> fabi: I would like to lock options like factions, leaders, gold, team by default is "Use map settings" was ticked.
20130825 11:54:20< fabi> Isn't that already the case?
20130825 11:54:27< thunderstruck> Nope.
20130825 11:54:37< fabi> If not, what purpose does "Use map settings" solve?
20130825 11:55:22< thunderstruck> fabi: It locks some options in mp::create/configure windows.
20130825 11:55:25< thunderstruck> E.g. turns.
20130825 11:55:42< thunderstruck> But it doesn't actually govern mp::connect.
20130825 11:56:42< fabi> Hmmm
20130825 11:56:53< fabi> I understand that some stuff is not locked in the gui.
20130825 11:57:09< fabi> But I don't get what governs mp::connect is supposed to mean.
20130825 11:58:37< thunderstruck> Using map settings in mp::connect would not force lock all the options.
20130825 11:59:19< thunderstruck> It would only lock some options and only if it was explicitly told to e.g. team_lock=yes
20130825 11:59:23< thunderstruck> or gold_lock=yes
20130825 11:59:35< thunderstruck> But that is a bit cumbersome to lock a single option for every side.
20130825 11:59:47< thunderstruck> So I would like to have a some sort of "global lock"
20130825 12:01:08< thunderstruck> fabi: Do you get it now?
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20130825 12:02:26< fabi> thunderstruck: hmmm, a global lock is fine, still I think that having the possibility to lock some options on a per team base should remain.
20130825 12:02:39< fabi> s/team/side
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20130825 12:02:51< thunderstruck> fabi: Sure. I was thinking that global lock should provide a default value for existing locks.
20130825 12:03:10< thunderstruck> I.e. it should not overwrite existing locks if they were explicitly stated.
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20130825 12:03:39< fabi> thunderstruck: Yeah, that sounds pretty sound.
20130825 12:04:34< thunderstruck> fabi: Alright. So one more thing. I know that some campaign authors don't want users to be able to adjust campaign's settings to not ruin the gameplay.
20130825 12:04:46< fabi> Indeed.
20130825 12:04:47< thunderstruck> fabi: I was thinking about a new attribute per scenario.
20130825 12:04:53< thunderstruck> E.g. force_use_map_settings
20130825 12:05:02< fabi> Oh yes.
20130825 12:05:07< fabi> That is useful.
20130825 12:05:25< thunderstruck> So, it should by default be "no", not to break the current scenarios.
20130825 12:05:48< fabi> Yeah
20130825 12:05:55< thunderstruck> But, with my new changes, it is now possible to go to mp::connect in between scenarios.
20130825 12:06:11< fabi> cool
20130825 12:06:21< thunderstruck> So, I was thinking that it should default to "yes", in case we're going to mp::connect in between scenarios.
20130825 12:07:06< fabi> hmmm
20130825 12:07:11< fabi> You might be right.
20130825 12:07:39< fabi> Changing such stuff in-between might lead to all sort of misbehavior.
20130825 12:08:38< thunderstruck> fabi: I just think that usually it is undesirable to be able to change a faction after the first scenario.
20130825 12:08:53< thunderstruck> or something gold, because there is a carryover thing.
20130825 12:09:12< fabi> Yes
20130825 12:09:16< thunderstruck> So, that's why I would like to lock it by default.
20130825 12:09:22< fabi> thunderstruck: You asked about LoW3?
20130825 12:09:45< fabi> thunderstruck: The player who plays Kalenz shall play Galtrid. 
20130825 12:09:54< fabi> as well
20130825 12:10:30< fabi> The player who plays Landar shall also control the second leader.
20130825 12:10:38< lipkab> "E.g. force_use_map_settings" <- I don't really like the idea, honestly. The game should satisfy the players, not the authors.
20130825 12:10:45< thunderstruck> fabi: Do you still have a second? I need to check WML.
20130825 12:10:53< lipkab> If they want to use different settings, why not?
20130825 12:10:55< fabi> Later, in scenario 7 it shall be exactly the same.
20130825 12:11:16< fabi> lipkab: You don't satisfy players if you allow stuff that breaks the gameplay.
20130825 12:11:44< thunderstruck> lipkab: Well, the players can edit the WML if they like. It's more like a guard.
20130825 12:12:06< fabi> lipkab: If you do not want to restrict the player, just don't use the feature in your addon.
20130825 12:12:17< lipkab> fabi, Yeah, but we've been fine without that key since ever.
20130825 12:12:21< fabi> lipkab: Not locking will be the default like thunderstruck said.
20130825 12:12:36< fabi> lipkab: Because we did not support MP campaigns properly.
20130825 12:12:44< lipkab> thunderstruck, You can safely assume that the 90% will never edit WML.
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20130825 12:13:45< fabi> thunderstruck: Yes, I have a few minutes.
20130825 12:13:53< lipkab> fabi, The exact reason I don't like this is that I implemented a similar restrictive feature and saw it misused at least one time since.
20130825 12:14:19< lipkab> I.e. "you can only use a certain era for this map".
20130825 12:14:25< lipkab> "Why?"
20130825 12:14:31< lipkab> "Story reasons."
20130825 12:14:52< fabi> That sounds pretty useful.
20130825 12:15:18< thunderstruck> fabi: In Kalian under Attack, what is side 6 for?
20130825 12:15:22< fabi> I need to restrict a lot of stuff for LoW.
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20130825 12:16:21< lipkab> The map could have worked fine with any era.
20130825 12:17:04< lipkab> But the author thought that only one fits the setting.
20130825 12:17:13< lipkab> ...so he disabled everything else.
20130825 12:17:21< fabi> lipkab: Well, then the author made a mistake. If we deny useful features because the author can use them wrong we will end with a very limited set of WML features left.
20130825 12:17:41< fabi> thunderstruck: Side 6 is for Landar's player also playing El'isomithir.
20130825 12:18:49< thunderstruck> fabi: We would neet some new WML to state things like that, I guess.
20130825 12:19:19< fabi> thunderstruck: Yes, but if you remember, I already requested that, before the start of gsoc, from you :-)
20130825 12:19:38< thunderstruck> fabi: Sorry, but I don't remember that.
20130825 12:19:48< thunderstruck> I will note down it now.
20130825 12:19:53< fabi> Well, there was a lot of stuff to discuss.
20130825 12:21:00< thunderstruck> fabi: Yes. But things like that while they are important to gameplay, they don't affect code a lot, so it is no problem to add them later.
20130825 12:22:02< thunderstruck> fabi: Another thing a bout LoW: scenario 6, for multiplayer has multiple next_scenario attributes.
20130825 12:22:17< fabi> thunderstruck: Well, what is needed is something like controller=player1 instead of just human.
20130825 12:23:51< thunderstruck> fabi: I assume it was unintentionally left like that, because if you're playing LoW in multiplayer, you can't advance from 6th to 7th scenario.
20130825 12:24:05< thunderstruck> It gives an error about an unknown scenario.
20130825 12:24:38< fabi> thunderstruck: The multiple next_scenario is a leftover from the support difficulties in multiplayer hack.
20130825 12:26:44< thunderstruck> fabi: "controller=player1", I would like to reference such things by side or save ids.
20130825 12:27:22< fabi> I think that might work as well.
20130825 12:27:22< thunderstruck> Probably side id, because not every side has save_id.
20130825 12:27:48< fabi> The idea is that both players control two sides in 3.
20130825 12:27:59< fabi> And then the exact same sides in 7 again.
20130825 12:31:21< thunderstruck> fabi: Ok. I think I now how I could implement this.
20130825 12:31:30< thunderstruck> I know*
20130825 12:37:11< fabi> thunderstruck: Any more questions?
20130825 12:43:28< thunderstruck> fabi: No. Thanks.
20130825 12:48:39< fabi> thunderstruck: You are welcome :-)
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20130825 13:20:06< AI0867> Ivanovic, shadowm: yeah, there are currently two people entered into the mail hook at github. The mail format is commit message + diffstat.
20130825 13:20:44< AI0867> adding more people would require setting up a new mailinglist. Perhaps we can create a new list at GNA, or we could set one up at b.w.o
20130825 13:21:10< AI0867> changing the format (like adding a full diff) would require setting up a hook to generate that
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20130825 14:40:14< irker918> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd d355e6d67e2e / src/ (9 files in 6 dirs): Replace the protocol with a simple handler function (protocol_entry_point). http://git.io/hm30Tw
20130825 14:40:15< irker918> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd cc471565ea3e / src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Split the basic and multi-threaded server into 2 files. http://git.io/pVNojA
20130825 14:40:17< irker918> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd ab86dce8ae13 / src/umcd/ (daemon.hpp server/daemon.hpp umcd.cpp): move the daemon inside server (because not useful only for this particular proje http://git.io/rGwoLw
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20130825 15:06:47< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#479 (asio_umcd - ab86dce : Pierre T): The build is still failing.
20130825 15:06:47< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/10592359
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20130825 15:14:38< trademark_> AI0867, the build is still failing because the header are pre-installed on Travis (?) and are not set to the 1.48 version (as the compiled version).
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20130825 18:34:50< AI0867> trademark_: okay, what would you normally do about that?
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20130825 19:15:41< trademark_> AI0867, I don't know ? install newer boost header file "by hand" in the travis file ?
20130825 19:16:14< AI0867> that's what I did
20130825 19:16:31< trademark_> only for the compiled library
20130825 19:16:35< AI0867> well, I asked apt to do it
20130825 19:16:48< AI0867> no, I added 1.48 to all the -dev parts
20130825 19:17:09< AI0867> I suppose I can install libboost-all1.48-dev
20130825 19:17:21< AI0867> er, libboost1.48-all-dev
20130825 19:18:05< trademark_> ok I didn't check that header files were installed, my bad
20130825 19:18:07< AI0867> I don't know if that would get rid of the 1.46 stuff though
20130825 19:19:25< trademark_> I'll test it after eating
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20130825 19:53:40< irker449> wesnoth: Pierre T wesnoth-old:asio_umcd e5555e791994 / .travis.yml: Try to fix the compilation under clang++ on Travis, install boost 1.48 header fi http://git.io/OLHT2g
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20130825 20:23:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#480 (asio_umcd - e5555e7 : Pierre T): The build is still failing.
20130825 20:23:28< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/10599152
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20130825 21:30:39< irker449> wesnoth: anonymissimus wesnoth-old:master dbfed03cb3ba / src/.gitignore: .gitignore some files generated by cmake/MSVC9 http://git.io/wgYsdQ
20130825 21:30:41< irker449> wesnoth: anonymissimus wesnoth-old:master a7ce537ee691 / data/lua/.gitignore: .gitignore code.lua http://git.io/Omn14g
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20130825 21:45:42< mordante> I'm off night
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 26 00:00:23 2013