--- Log opened Fri Aug 02 00:00:41 2013
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20130802 00:18:46< wajeemba> hey peeps, looking for feedback on developing a control set for a console/gamepad type of controller. Think Xbox/PS3 What in-game actions, aside from map navigation and movement are the most important?
20130802 00:19:35< wajeemba> Select/move/attack should be one button, undo another. Recruit and recall likely get trigger buttons.. ideas?
20130802 00:31:36< wajeemba> how often do people check unit descriptions?
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20130802 00:48:29< wajeemba> shadowmaster ( shadowm_desktop ): what controls do you think are most important for gameplay? I'm developing a set of controls for a console environment. Think Xbox controller
20130802 00:49:27< shadowm> Unfortunately, I can't think "Xbox controller" or any other kind of console controller because I've never played on consoles. I also don't know who this shadowmaster person is.
20130802 00:52:24< shadowm> I think Wesnoth mainly needs directional input, primary and secondary action buttons, and some way to enter text when needed (when GUI1 or GUI2 input boxes are present on the screen, e.g. for chatting in multiplayer games or responding to a WML [message] [text_input] request), but I personally also use a lot of keyboard shortcuts all the time.
20130802 00:53:11< wajeemba> right, that's what I'm asking about. keyboard shortcuts
20130802 00:53:32< wajeemba> good point about text input being needed sometimes too
20130802 00:53:56< celticminstrel> ...
20130802 00:54:34< shadowm> In particular n (cycle through units), space (mark a unit's turn as done), ctrl+r (recruit), repeat recruit, end turn, quit, ctrl+s (save), ctrol+o (load), d (show unit description). And I think Planning Mode (a.k.a. whiteboard, which I don't use) may require even more shortcuts.
20130802 00:54:50< shadowm> Granted, all of those except for the first two can be done with mouse clicks atm.
20130802 00:54:56< celticminstrel> Planning mode is probably expendable...
20130802 00:55:07< celticminstrel> >_>
20130802 00:55:53< wajeemba> agreed
20130802 00:56:21< wajeemba> I have to go afk but will check the irclogs if anyone else would be willing to give feedback. Thanks :)
20130802 00:56:30< celticminstrel> My main issue with the idea of using a console controller is that I can't imagine playing Wesnoth without a mouse...
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20130802 00:57:15< wajeemba> I believe it can be done. Free your mind Neo
20130802 00:57:23< celticminstrel> Nooo
20130802 01:02:25< wajeemba> ever played Fire Emblem on the GBA? That's why I think it can. Would also be a great resource for me to check out..
20130802 01:03:40< celticminstrel> I've never played Fire Emblem period.
20130802 01:03:51< celticminstrel> Or pretty much any console game that's not Nintendo.
20130802 01:04:26< celticminstrel> But you're probably right.
20130802 01:04:58< celticminstrel> The hardest thing would be re-imagining terrain space selection, I think.
20130802 01:05:57< celticminstrel> The other potential issue would be text input, but you can probably dispense with that for the most part.
20130802 01:06:27< celticminstrel> It might be a little annoying to not have multiplayer chat, but it's not really necessary to have it.
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20130802 01:57:33< PK> you haven't played fire emblem?
20130802 01:57:35< PK> man you're missing out.
20130802 01:57:55< PK> and if it's a console game chances are now-a-days you could have a mic
20130802 01:58:53< celticminstrel> A what?
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20130802 02:10:52< PK> microphone
20130802 02:13:07< celticminstrel> I fail to see how this is relevant...
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20130802 02:21:14< PK> you said there wouldn't be text input for chat
20130802 02:21:20< PK> mics allow for chat as well.
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20130802 02:53:45< celticminstrel> ...oh.
20130802 02:53:57< celticminstrel> I didn't think of that. <_<
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20130802 03:19:22< wajeemba> lol
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20130802 03:20:59< celticminstrel> Hm?
20130802 03:21:08< celticminstrel> What's funnt?
20130802 03:21:15< celticminstrel> ^funny
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20130802 05:54:57< wajeemba> just the interaction :)
20130802 05:57:24< wajeemba> as far as hex grid navigation, I think you're right, but there are multiple possible solutions. Try them out and tweak the algorithm until its good then you're ready to go.
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20130802 06:18:13< wajeemba> hey ancestral! I was looking back at Ascension- what became of that project?
20130802 06:18:31< ancestral> wajeemba: Excellent question
20130802 06:18:38< ancestral> Thanks for you interest
20130802 06:18:41< ancestral> *your
20130802 06:19:14< wajeemba> if you recall, I believe I was around when you first started it, and called it Pentaperia
20130802 06:19:21< ancestral> wajeemba: I offered to port it to newer versions of Wesnoth if people wanted me to. Interest in the project died down, so I never bothered to.
20130802 06:19:27< ancestral> Ah yes
20130802 06:19:36< ancestral> :)
20130802 06:19:47< ancestral> I do remember you now
20130802 06:20:56< ancestral> wajeemba: Have you played with it? What are your impressions?
20130802 06:22:31< wajeemba> Personally I don't know why it's not the go to for something like Coliseum. Seems like it would open up a wider array of good choices.
20130802 06:23:56< wajeemba> If you played it with a multiplayer rpg map, then I could see it breaking the balance that the designer intended, however if there was a way for them to list it as a dependency and use it automatically, I think an RPG map would be that much more enjoyable :D
20130802 06:25:20< wajeemba> anyway, I need to catch some Z's. I'll be around for a few more minutes if you do want to dialog a bit more, ancestral.
20130802 06:25:53< ancestral> wajeemba: I'd certainly be open to porting it to 1.10
20130802 06:26:21< ancestral> (Probably would be good if another mod author was excited to use it)
20130802 06:26:44< celticminstrel> What is Ascension?
20130802 06:26:47< ancestral> That is, include it in their mod
20130802 06:27:01< ancestral> celticminstrel: Basically, every in-game unit goes up to level 5
20130802 06:27:06< ancestral> Unique level ups
20130802 06:27:10< celticminstrel> ...oh.
20130802 06:27:12< celticminstrel> Wow.
20130802 06:27:29< ancestral> one sec let me get the link
20130802 06:27:32< celticminstrel> I hate it when I accidentally quite TextWrangler. ><
20130802 06:27:35< celticminstrel> ^quit
20130802 06:27:35< celticminstrel> 3
20130802 06:27:49< wajeemba> exactly. I'd approach some of the developers and see what it would take to build a dependency hook like that into the game core.
20130802 06:28:00< ancestral> celticminstrel: http://units.wesnoth.org/1.6/C/era_ascension.html
20130802 06:28:17< ancestral> celticminstrel: I use TextMate, but I feel your pain!
20130802 06:28:40< celticminstrel> Last I checked, TextMate was discontinued. Also not free, but that's beside the point.
20130802 06:28:46< ancestral> Gambit suggested it part of Wesnoth Expeirmental :-P
20130802 06:28:57< ancestral> celticminstrel: It's open source now, GPL style
20130802 06:29:06< celticminstrel> TextMate?
20130802 06:29:09< ancestral> Yeah
20130802 06:29:14< ancestral> Version 2
20130802 06:29:19< celticminstrel> In that case, I might try it. Do you have that link handy too?
20130802 06:29:31< celticminstrel> Or I could Google.
20130802 06:29:38< ancestral> http://macromates.com/download 2.0 alpha
20130802 06:30:58< ancestral> Unfortunately I think it broke the WML syntax highlighter I had
20130802 06:31:12< wajeemba> ancestral, let me know if anything happens as far as Ascension goes :). Should I message you my email?
20130802 06:31:13< celticminstrel> I had one for TW as well.
20130802 06:31:37< wajeemba> I'm not on IRC regularly enough to hit me up here..
20130802 06:32:16< ancestral> Sure
20130802 06:32:19< ancestral> I'll take it
20130802 06:32:28< ancestral> Or if you're on the forums that might work too
20130802 06:32:52< wajeemba> no, not much
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20130802 06:38:53< PK> lol
20130802 06:38:59< PK> there are two units named immortal in that era
20130802 06:39:01< PK> in loyalists.
20130802 06:43:28< ancestral> PK: Oh yeah?
20130802 06:43:45< PK> yes.
20130802 06:43:58< PK> note that the Level 5 Lancer and the Level 5 Royal Guard
20130802 06:44:00< PK> are both immortals.
20130802 06:44:32< ancestral> Yeah, the L5 unit upgrade from War Charger named “Immortal” should be named something else
20130802 06:44:42< ancestral> I think 1.8 fixed it
20130802 06:44:53< PK> Pfft Jouster should be a name in there
20130802 06:45:03< ancestral> http://units.wesnoth.org/1.8/C/era_ascension.html
20130802 06:45:21< ancestral> “Hussar”
20130802 06:45:25< PK> Indeed
20130802 06:45:28< PK> Hussah!
20130802 06:45:30< PK> it's fixed.
20130802 06:45:39< ancestral> I remember fixing that
20130802 06:45:58< ancestral> PK: Should I upgrade this to 1.10?
20130802 06:46:09< PK> I'm not the right person to ask.
20130802 06:46:15< ancestral> :-P
20130802 06:46:41< PK> At this point I rarely if ever play anything that isn't partially my own work
20130802 06:47:01< PK> but if you like level 5's and RPGs go ahead.
20130802 06:47:06< PK> I make things so I can play them
20130802 06:47:17< ancestral> Sure
20130802 06:47:43< PK> speaking of which, you should look at the concept for Faunima. :D *insert shameless ad*
20130802 06:48:02< ancestral> Faunima? (link?)
20130802 06:48:21< PK> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39186
20130802 06:48:46< ancestral> Aha
20130802 06:48:47< PK> since we're talkin addons anyway
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20130802 06:49:23< ancestral> Sounds like another popular franchise where you must obtain each one of these monsters
20130802 06:49:45< PK> Combat is vastly different, as all the people who tried the showcase have told me.
20130802 06:50:13< PK> From what they've said it'll be Pokemon meets Final Fantasy
20130802 06:50:21< PK> with some glitz
20130802 06:54:24< ancestral> PK: Have you ever played the game King of Dragon Pass?
20130802 06:54:31< PK> no.
20130802 06:54:55< ancestral> It takes an interesting strategy-based approach to the turn-based genre
20130802 06:55:32< ancestral> You choose the strategy (or maybe tactic) — Charge, Maneuver, etc. — and your opponent chooses one too
20130802 06:55:54< ancestral> And then sometimes there will be RPG-like decisions for one of your warriors
20130802 06:56:10< ancestral> (does he fight bravely, take insane risks to win, etc.)
20130802 06:56:39< PK> uh huh
20130802 06:59:08< ancestral> The game is really well done
20130802 06:59:24< ancestral> It’s a 15 year old game that got re-released for iOS
20130802 06:59:29< ancestral> Also on GOG.com
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20130802 18:49:37< Hulavuta1> oh bb
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20130802 20:48:01< lipkab> Gambit: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=39175
20130802 20:48:12< lipkab> Will you be my teammate? :]
20130802 20:48:32< Gambit> You want to be eliminated in round 1?
20130802 20:48:58< lipkab> Yeah, why not?
20130802 20:51:39< lipkab> Gambit: There'll be a Hungarian championship running at that time, too, so it wouldn't be fun to stay in play for too long.
20130802 20:52:59< lipkab> But I guess I'd count there as a rather weak player as well anyways.
20130802 20:54:20< Gambit> I dunno.
20130802 20:54:50< Dunno> could you please not use the word dunno when I'm around thank you very much?
20130802 20:54:52< Dunno> :D
20130802 20:54:58< Gambit> lipkab: Too much responsibility :<
20130802 20:55:02< Gambit> Ohhi Dunno.
20130802 20:55:06< lipkab> Gambit: If you don't accept I'll team up with DPmonika!
20130802 20:55:22< Gambit> lipkab: Can we really accept that the tournament is even real?
20130802 20:55:28< Gambit> We only have Dunno's word to go on.
20130802 20:55:28< Dunno> I've had a talk with him about the WTC on pms
20130802 20:55:31< Gambit> And he's clearly biased.
20130802 20:55:31< Dunno> btw
20130802 20:55:41< Gambit> What if the tournament was a controlled demolition?
20130802 20:55:43< blarumyrran> I think Gambit has the earwax room and is hiding it, that is why he does not want the attention
20130802 20:55:50< bumbadadabum> DEMOLISION
20130802 20:56:10< Gambit> And now he's spamming up the forums with meta threads.
20130802 20:56:55< Gambit> I'm too kind and impatient for this job anymore. You can be one or the other, not both.
20130802 20:57:00< Dunno> Why can't the likes of him just google their question instead of posting flamebaits
20130802 20:57:07< Gambit> Like, there's an obvious troll in #minecraft right now that I should just ban and be done with.
20130802 20:57:19< Gambit> But I can't bring myself to do it because it's not *that bad*.
20130802 20:57:47< bumbadadabum> Gambit: If you thought like that in 2010 I wouldn't be around anymore either
20130802 20:58:04< bumbadadabum> banning trolls
20130802 20:58:04< Dunno> Gambit: so you've become an old tired mod who's seen the worst of the internet and doesn't want to act when it's not *that bad*?
20130802 20:58:27< blarumyrran> bumbadadabum: uh Gambit was only made moderator recently
20130802 20:58:38< lipkab> Yeah.
20130802 20:58:38< bumbadadabum> blarumyrran: Nope
20130802 20:58:44< lipkab> 3 years or so.
20130802 20:58:50< bumbadadabum> ^
20130802 20:59:09< Gambit> Dunno: I don't like banning people, but I also don't care for the whole song and dance you have to do when you don't ban them anymore.
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20130802 21:13:00< Captain_Wrathbow> Hey Gambit, wanna play a game of GambCiv?
20130802 21:13:04-!- A_Guy [320ee776@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.14.231.118] has joined #wesnoth
20130802 21:13:23< A_Guy> Does anyone know if a guy called Zajoman is still around?
20130802 21:14:42< blarumyrran> neverheardof
20130802 21:14:51< bumbadadabum> Who?
20130802 21:15:04< A_Guy> Figured as much.
20130802 21:15:38< A_Guy> He submitted a music piece which got rejected from mainline most definitively but I really liked.
20130802 21:15:52< A_Guy> The mirror no longer has the relevant music piece.
20130802 21:16:08< Captain_Wrathbow> Well, you might get ahold of him by PM. (I assume he has a forum account?)
20130802 21:16:16< bumbadadabum> A_Guy: Have you checked UMC music?
20130802 21:18:19< A_Guy> No.
20130802 21:18:30-!- lipkabb [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20130802 21:20:03< Captain_Wrathbow> Gambit Or Anyone: Want to play Gambciv? I haven't played it in forever and just randomly felt like playing today.
20130802 21:20:20-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: _8680_, lipkab, Gambit
20130802 21:20:50< A_Guy> I shot him a PM, here's hoping he at least gets an e-mail.
20130802 21:22:17< lipkabb> Captain_Wrathbow: I could be interested.
20130802 21:22:41< Captain_Wrathbow> Great, let's see if we can get another person or two.
20130802 21:23:47< lipkabb> BatmanGambit: Let's play GambCiv and if I beat you, you'll have to be my teammate in TGT!
20130802 21:24:08< Dunno> Gambit: "Oh look. Hilarious passive aggressive post made solely to snub the mod team and prove some silly point."
20130802 21:24:18< Dunno> damn, I wish I was a moderator someday
20130802 21:24:30< Dunno> and throw these kinds of oneliners before locking a thread
20130802 21:25:07< celticminstrel> Heh.
20130802 21:26:33< Dunno> "And you will know I am the Mod when I lay my lock upon you! *Click!*"
20130802 21:27:43-!- jemadux [~kag@85.74.154.76] has joined #wesnoth
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20130802 21:28:20< lipkabb> Captain_Wrathbow: How long are we willing to wait for a third player?
20130802 21:29:21< Captain_Wrathbow> Well, I don't know where Gambit went. I thought it would be nice to ask him to play, but if he doesn't turn up I don't want to just hang around waiting for one more random player.
20130802 21:29:46< Captain_Wrathbow> You want to just do 1v1 if we can't get Gambit to play?
20130802 21:30:42< lipkabb> Well, what else could we play if there's only two of us....?
20130802 21:32:19< Captain_Wrathbow> Modern Combat. ^_^
20130802 21:32:33< Captain_Wrathbow> Haha but actually I kinda just felt like playing GambCiv for some reason today.
20130802 21:32:59< bumbadadabum> Did someone say Modern Combat?
20130802 21:33:21< lipkabb> No.
20130802 21:33:37< lipkabb> He said GambCiv.
20130802 21:34:00< Captain_Wrathbow> bumbadadabum: You want to play MC? I'd prefer GambCiv ATM, but I'm up for either one.
20130802 21:34:11< fiddlinmacx> Captain_Wrathbow: I've never played GambCiv, but I'm pretty good at wesnoth. Is that good enough?
20130802 21:34:35< bumbadadabum> fiddlinmacx: GambCiv is a bit hard to learn
20130802 21:34:47< Captain_Wrathbow> It's pretty unorthodox; it's like Civilization, but it's a wesnoth mod.
20130802 21:34:58< Captain_Wrathbow> You could give it a try, but it might be tough if you're unfamiliar.
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20130802 21:35:29< fiddlinmacx> Yeah. I just looked it up. If you want to play I don't mind trying. I don't care about losing if I'm learning something new.
20130802 21:35:51< lipkabb> Great!
20130802 21:36:03< lipkabb> Then GambCiv we go.
20130802 21:36:08< Captain_Wrathbow> lipkabb: you want to host?
20130802 21:36:13< fiddlinmacx> What server
20130802 21:36:17< Captain_Wrathbow> 1.10
20130802 21:36:26< fiddlinmacx> Just give me a minute to get the addon
20130802 21:36:40< lipkabb> Captain_Wrathbow: I don't insist on it, but if you *want* me to host...
20130802 21:37:06< Captain_Wrathbow> I don't like hosting; if you don't mind I'd rather you do it.  :p
20130802 21:37:18< lipkabb> Okay.
20130802 21:38:44< fiddlinmacx> I'll be 'jackstorm448' on wesnoth.
20130802 21:38:50< fiddlinmacx> Installing GambCiv
20130802 21:39:03< fiddlinmacx> Where am I connecting?
20130802 21:39:03-!- _8680 is now known as _8680_
20130802 21:39:34< Captain_Wrathbow> The main MP server for 1.10
20130802 21:39:55< lipkabb> Captain_Wrathbow, fiddlinmacx: game is up, "lipk's GambCiv game", password: trickypass
20130802 21:44:13< fiddlinmacx> Sorry about the delay. Technical difficulties.
20130802 21:45:24< lipkabb> Do we want bonus resources?
20130802 21:45:41< lipkabb> Eh, you probably don't read this.
20130802 21:46:05< lipkabb> No bonus!
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20130802 22:04:26< lipkab> Captain_Wrathbow, fiddlinmacx: I think I'm dc-d.
20130802 22:04:26< lipkab> Sry.
20130802 22:04:55< Captain_Wrathbow> Your "asdfasdf" message came through.
20130802 22:05:14< lipkab> Hmm. That's weird.
20130802 22:05:29< lipkab> Captain_Wrathbow: But it's not your turn anymore I suppose.
20130802 22:05:40< Captain_Wrathbow> No, it's your turn.
20130802 22:06:43< BatmanGambit> lipkab: tempting.
20130802 22:06:59< BatmanGambit> I was away playing Magic: the Gathering with my little brother.
20130802 22:07:05< Captain_Wrathbow> BatmanGambit: Oh there you are.
20130802 22:07:05< fiddlinmacx> Sorry. I was offline on IRC for awhile. I will be offline again now for awhile.
20130802 22:07:15< Captain_Wrathbow> fiddlinmacx: Ok.
20130802 22:11:14< BatmanGambit> Uh oh. I seem to have forgotten my password.
20130802 22:11:20< lipkab> BatmanGambit: Every time someone builds something, the mills wheel speeds up.
20130802 22:11:26< lipkab> mill's
20130802 22:11:34< BatmanGambit> lipkab: That's a bug in Wesnoth.
20130802 22:11:41< BatmanGambit> Updating the terrain resets terrain animations to the first frame.
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20130802 22:11:54< BatmanGambit> It's not even so much a bug really.
20130802 22:15:31< BatmanGambit> I should get back to work on GambCiv some day soon here. But this weekend I have bigger, janebot-related plans.
20130802 22:16:37< Hulavuta> thanks for inviting me, Captain_Wrathbow
20130802 22:16:40< Dunno> btw, BatmanGambit, I've made a bot of my own, it's lurking the tgt thread and reports new posts :D
20130802 22:16:51< Dunno> I've heard you've had something similar
20130802 22:17:15< BatmanGambit> janebot does that for entire subforums.
20130802 22:17:32< BatmanGambit> Specific threads have been requested a couple times, I just haven't gotten to it.
20130802 22:17:44< Dunno> well I guess you need that, all I need is the TGT thread
20130802 22:17:52< Captain_Wrathbow> Hulavuta: Hey, it was an open invitation. We waited quite a while to see if more people wanted to join.
20130802 22:18:10< Hulavuta> Nobody pinged me, how was I supposed to know
20130802 22:18:19< bumbadadabum> Hulavuta: Be a better lurker
20130802 22:18:46< Captain_Wrathbow> Hulavuta: Come observe. We're having a party; gambit's here now and PK just dropped in.
20130802 22:19:27< Hulavuta> bumbadadabum: Do you expect me to stare at hours of quit and join messages on the off chance someone might say something 
20130802 22:19:33< BatmanGambit> Yes.
20130802 22:19:41< Hulavuta> not worth it
20130802 22:19:44< BatmanGambit> I mean, who doesn't.
20130802 22:19:50-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20130802 22:20:02< bumbadadabum> Hulavuta: I have on-screen notifications
20130802 22:20:09< Hulavuta> good for you
20130802 22:20:17-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-174.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth
20130802 22:20:24< bumbadadabum> I READ EVERYTHING
20130802 22:21:06< lipkab> Sorry people.
20130802 22:21:17< lipkab> Connection problems.
20130802 22:21:43< Captain_Wrathbow> Hulavuta: Get in here and join our party.
20130802 22:21:50< Hulavuta> Busy
20130802 22:22:54< Captain_Wrathbow> ...then you couldn't have played anyways, even if I had pinged you.
20130802 22:22:58< Captain_Wrathbow> Go away.
20130802 22:23:04< Hulavuta> I don't want to play 
20130802 22:23:07< Hulavuta> but I would like to be offered
20130802 22:23:40< Dunno> ^quote of the day?
20130802 22:23:55< BatmanGambit> Totally quote of the day.
20130802 22:27:28-!- BatmanGambit is now known as Gambit
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20130802 22:30:18< fiddlinmacx> Captain_Wrathbow, lipkab: Wesnoth crashed.
20130802 22:30:21< fiddlinmacx> Yikes
20130802 22:30:37< fiddlinmacx> Loading back up again.
20130802 22:31:11< Captain_Wrathbow> Ok, np. Just rejoin as observer and lipk will give you control again.
20130802 22:31:27< fiddlinmacx> OK
20130802 22:32:06< fiddlinmacx> It'll just be a sec. I think I have too many addons. It's taking awhile to load.
20130802 22:33:17< fiddlinmacx> I'm back in.
20130802 22:34:20< fiddlinmacx> It's playing through everything everyone's done. I don't want to see that.
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 03 00:00:45 2013