--- Log opened Mon Sep 30 00:00:41 2013
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20130930 01:30:00< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 0df70f17261d / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/deaths.cfg: SotBE: delete an unused death event http://git.io/ZAPKbQ
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20130930 01:37:05< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 30a4e44f7187 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/deaths.cfg: SotBE: combine three almost identical death events http://git.io/-yc-dQ
20130930 01:39:07< justinzane> in map.cpp, there is: `if(usage == "map") {usage_ = IS_MAP; symbols["border_size"] = "1";...} else if(usage == "mask") { usage_ = IS_MASK symbols["border_size"] = "0";}`
20130930 01:40:14< justinzane> Am I right in assuming that it never happens that an IS_MAP map has a 0 border -AND- that it never happens that an IS_MASK map has a 1 border?
20130930 01:42:19< _Coffee> justinzane: as a map author usually when creating a mask, you do that in the editor by making changes and creating the mask from the original map
20130930 01:42:28< _Coffee> so it should have the same border
20130930 01:43:00< _Coffee> I think I've only seen one use of a different sized mask in actual use
20130930 01:43:31< _Coffee> by default, the map editor sets "border_size=1"
20130930 01:43:52< _Coffee> as part of the map and mask files
20130930 01:44:01< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 3d0b957d9fce / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/deaths.cfg: SotBE: also combine death events for the two orcish generals http://git.io/ZPicZw
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20130930 01:50:07< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 413870e62f4e / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/deaths.cfg: SotBE: use DEFEAT macro consistently in all death events http://git.io/8g3XMw
20130930 01:50:09< _Coffee> justinzane: I think the border difference is correct though
20130930 01:50:11< justinzane> _Coffee: Oh, ok. 
20130930 01:50:31< _Coffee> you could in theory make a mask that is smaller and apply it to a section of map
20130930 01:50:41< _Coffee> and you wouldn't want a border section
20130930 02:05:32< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 00f00b6afab4 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/utils.cfg: SotBE: do not use IS_HERO macro on side leaders http://git.io/ZAg7uw
20130930 02:11:35-!- nurupo|away is now known as nurupo
20130930 02:12:41< justinzane> _Coffee: thanks. 
20130930 02:14:44< justinzane> Some campaigns, like LotI, use a lot of "items" -- objects that are not units or terrain, that can appear on tiles, that can be "absorbed" by units, and that influence said unit's functionality.
20130930 02:15:17< justinzane> How, in the c++ core are these objects tracked?
20130930 02:15:47< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master d2784eef9048 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE::14_Back_Home: fix missing ellipse issue for Grüü http://git.io/UjA4UA
20130930 02:31:23< irker206> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 35d3196ab827 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE::14_Back_Home: get rid of "gruu_recall_enabling_hack_leader" turn message http://git.io/NbeztQ
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20130930 02:36:00< _Coffee> justinzane: I don't know exactly how they are stored, but it is split into 2 parts
20130930 02:36:26< _Coffee> one is the object on the field (WML 'item' tag and 'remove_item')
20130930 02:36:52< _Coffee> and the other is in the unit WML 'overlay', or 'object' WML
20130930 02:37:01< _Coffee> which changes the unit WML
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20130930 02:37:13< _Coffee> you can see this from 'inspect' and looking at the unit
20130930 02:37:29< _Coffee> the modifications will appear for units under 'modifications' sub tag
20130930 02:38:38< _Coffee> a 'moveto' event is usually fired when a unit steps on an 'item' space
20130930 02:39:15< _Coffee> and to make the object work properly for halo modifications a separate 'on advance' event is needed
20130930 02:39:38< _Coffee> and similarly for defense modifiers and resistance
20130930 02:41:07< _Coffee> the 'object' stuff is in callable_objects.cpp/hpp
20130930 02:41:39< _Coffee> and redered to in the namespace of unit.cpp
20130930 02:41:43< _Coffee> *referred
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20130930 02:44:18< _Coffee> the 'item' image code appears to be at the top end of display.cpp
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20130930 02:50:01< justinzane> _Coffee: Wow, excellent description! Now, off to read code. Thanks!
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20130930 02:57:12< _Coffee> out of interest, what are the hron signal sounds still doing under data/core/sounds/horn-signals?
20130930 02:57:16< _Coffee> *horn
20130930 02:59:14< _Coffee> I can't find any reference to any of the horn-sounds in any of the campaigns
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20130930 03:27:40< justinzane> p'raps someone wants to toot their...
20130930 03:27:45< justinzane> sorry
20130930 03:28:37< _Coffee> deleting these will save about .7Mb in the download
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20130930 03:36:22< gfgtdf> _Coffee: i did a text search and found out LoW scenaio 14 uses these.
20130930 03:37:52< _Coffee> gfgtdf: interestin
20130930 03:38:05< _Coffee> I did a search for horn-1.ogg
20130930 03:38:16< gfgtdf> it uses 2 and 8
20130930 03:38:25< _Coffee> yeah
20130930 03:40:07< _Coffee> would it be worth cutting down on these?
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20130930 03:41:37< shadowm> Turuk: You have commit access to the repository on GitHub now.
20130930 03:42:19< Turuk> My world is over.
20130930 03:43:11< shadowm> Whatever you do (this applies to all of you), don't use git push -f without asking first, ever.
20130930 03:43:30 * shadowm looks in Ivanovic's general direction.
20130930 03:44:20< gfgtdf> _Coffee: i realy dont know, maybe the one who made those file thought "horn signals are a useful and often used sound so lets put it into core".
20130930 03:45:32< Turuk> git push -f please
20130930 03:46:20< shadowm> Turuk: *grabs shotgun* I'm sorry. *shoots*
20130930 03:46:32< Turuk> shadowm: Noooooooo.
20130930 03:47:28 * Turuk staggers, grabs table, falls to the ground.
20130930 03:55:44 * justinzane notices that it takes exactly 1 game of klondike solitaire to build wesnoth...
20130930 03:56:46< _Coffee> justinzane: did you win?
20130930 03:59:10< justinzane> this one, yes. last build no. this build=debug, last build=profile... conspiracy theories about /dev/random anyone?
20130930 04:04:07< shadowm> Four minutes?
20130930 04:10:31< _Coffee> if I wanted to delete the not used horn sounds for LoW, is there anybody in particular I should mention this to?
20130930 04:11:29< _Coffee> or would I just put this in the changelog?
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20130930 04:22:04< shadowm> _Coffee: What are the file paths?
20130930 04:22:46< _Coffee> shadowm: data/core/sounds/horn-signals/horn-X.ogg (where X goe from 1 to 8)
20130930 04:23:01< _Coffee> only reason I'm looking at them is they take up a bit of space unused
20130930 04:23:05< shadowm> Are there any legal or technical constraints impossibiliting their usage in UMC?
20130930 04:23:28< _Coffee> no restraints
20130930 04:23:38< shadowm> Then they should stay.
20130930 04:23:54< _Coffee> ok
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20130930 04:25:45< Gambit> _Coffee: keep high quality assets for the sake of UMC-developers
20130930 04:25:53< shadowm> Frnakly, that ~ 0.63 MiB pales in comparison to other art in mainline available for UMC.
20130930 04:25:59< shadowm> Er, frankly.
20130930 04:26:00< Gambit> there's no point in black-holing them
20130930 04:26:13< _Coffee> alright, you convinced me ;)
20130930 04:26:32< Gambit> Also it theoretically saves wesnoth.org some bandwidth because then X thousand people won't be redownloading those from the add-on server if UMC authors copy them over instead of just using the mainline copy
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20130930 04:53:31< justinzane> will wesnoth work with sdl >= 2.0.0?
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20130930 06:06:38< justinzane> There is **not a single** documentation comment in callable-objects.cpp or callable-objects.hpp!
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20130930 06:21:30< justinzane> This makes it rather difficult for some of us non-professional coders to grasp.
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20130930 06:52:09< _Coffee> justinzane: are you trying to implement a 'remove_object' tag or similar?
20130930 06:53:36< _Coffee> if so, then (although I am not an expert in the C++ area) I would suggest first implementing changes to allow objects with halo/defense/resitance modifiers to work on advancement of the units
20130930 06:54:37< _Coffee> or you will have a problem when removing certain objects from advanced units from when they first were added the object
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--- Log opened Mon Sep 30 09:48:45 2013
20130930 09:48:54-!- lobby [~wesnoth@wesnoth/bot/lobby] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20130930 09:48:54-!- Topic for #wesnoth-dev: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 0 bugs, 0 feature requests, 0 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20130930 09:48:54-!- Topic set by Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] [Sat Aug 24 14:34:05 2013]
20130930 09:48:54[Users #wesnoth-dev]
20130930 09:48:54[ _8680_         ] [ Espreon   ] [ knotwork   ] [ Smar         ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ _Coffee        ] [ esr       ] [ lobby      ] [ stikonas     ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ AI0867         ] [ exciton   ] [ loonycyborg] [ thunderstruck] 
20130930 09:48:54[ apoi           ] [ fendrin   ] [ Mara_Jade  ] [ timotei_     ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ Ardonik        ] [ Gallaecio ] [ melinath   ] [ ToBeFree     ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ balrog         ] [ Ganrao    ] [ molgrum    ] [ Upth         ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ boucman_work   ] [ happygrue ] [ noy        ] [ Upthorn      ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ Crendgrim      ] [ Ingmar    ] [ nurupo|away] [ vultraz      ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ crimson_penguin] [ Ivanovic  ] [ qal        ] [ wesbot       ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ DHost          ] [ iwaim__   ] [ Rhonda     ] [ yann         ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ ejls           ] [ janebot   ] [ Samual     ] [ zookeeper    ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ elias          ] [ Jetrel_new] [ shadowm    ] [ {V}          ] 
20130930 09:48:54[ enchilado      ] [ justinzane] [ shikadibot ] 
20130930 09:48:54-!- Irssi: #wesnoth-dev: Total of 51 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 51 normal]
20130930 09:49:06-!- Channel #wesnoth-dev created Tue Jan 27 06:28:41 2009
20130930 09:49:11-!- Soliton [~Soliton@wesnoth/developer/soliton] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20130930 09:53:30< Ivanovic> _Coffee: for me it is up...
20130930 09:53:34< Ivanovic> at least the forum works
20130930 09:53:39< Ivanovic> or do you mean MP?
20130930 09:54:10< _Coffee> Ivanovic: it is now back up
20130930 09:54:30< _Coffee> I blieve that the MP works on the same domain as the forums/wiki/wesnoth.org page
20130930 09:54:52< Ivanovic> "down" for the MP server can in theory just mean a simple crash
20130930 09:54:59< _Coffee> no
20130930 09:55:06< _Coffee> the forums were out for a good while also
20130930 09:55:09< Ivanovic> but you are right, the server was down, otherwise the IRC bouncer from Soliton would not have been gone
20130930 09:55:30< _Coffee> netcraft says they are the same IP address I think: http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=wesnoth.org
20130930 09:55:59< _Coffee> so when wesnoth.org goes down, the forums/wiki/wesnoth.org page and MP all go down
20130930 09:56:17< _Coffee> but not git and irc of course
20130930 09:56:29< Ivanovic> i am not sure about the split these days
20130930 09:56:37< Ivanovic> but i think some stuff is no longer running on wesnoth.org
20130930 09:56:51< Ivanovic> not sure what that is though, might be the redirects are handled from wesnoth.org
20130930 09:56:59< Ivanovic> so if that one goes down, the rest goes down, too
20130930 09:57:26< _Coffee> the netcraft permormance thing says that the last reboot of the main server was 12 days ago
20130930 09:58:01< _Coffee> in general the uptime of the wesnoth.org main server has not been good in the last couple of months
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20130930 09:58:29< _Coffee> although I heard I think from shadowm that sometimes the server is still up, but it can't be accessed for some reason
20130930 10:00:25< _Coffee> although a basic test, I did a traceroute when wesnoth.org was down then
20130930 10:00:40< _Coffee> and it failed after conecting to gi1-1.corea.trum.fastdns.net
20130930 10:00:52< _Coffee> after it is back up, this was the next hop
20130930 10:00:59< _Coffee> so I assume the DNS is okay
20130930 10:03:46< shadowm> No, this time it wasn't a routing problem. (Also, it wasn't a DNS issue.)
20130930 10:04:23< _Coffee> hi shadowm
20130930 10:05:07< _Coffee> suppose you know more about it, but the DNS was always running from my simple test
20130930 10:07:51< shadowm> I don't, but I know about wesnoth.org's quirks.
20130930 10:08:51< _Coffee> out of interest, do you know what is jexiste.org and is it related to wesnoth?
20130930 10:08:58< shadowm> DNS provider.
20130930 10:09:14< _Coffee> I did a ping of ns1.jexiste.org when wesnoth.org did not respond, and it responded just fine
20130930 10:09:41< shadowm> Yes, because it's not a DNS issue, just like I said above. :)
20130930 10:10:29< _Coffee> is wesnoth.org a gateway server for other servers?
20130930 10:10:44< _Coffee> like a debian equivalent of TMG?
20130930 10:13:13< shadowm> Why do you ask so many questions? :p
20130930 10:13:42< _Coffee> just trying to be helpful, and I can't help myself ;)
20130930 10:14:03< shadowm> No, it's not a gateway atm. Unless some obscure facility I've never heard of is implemented as one.
20130930 10:15:13< _Coffee> out of interest, the server at wesnoth.org runs the forums/wiki/wesnoth home page and MP, doesn't it?
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20130930 10:15:40< _Coffee> could it be that is just too much for it with so many people now interested in wesnoth?
20130930 10:15:47< shadowm> Yes, except for server2 and server3, as a DNS lookup and tracing of the client's socket activity should reveal.
20130930 10:17:23< shadowm> Em, man page... wesnothd can really act as a proxy using SDL_net or is that just some left-over from the libana project?
20130930 10:17:47< shadowm> Anyway no wesnothd instances on the main server are configured as proxies.
20130930 10:20:14< _Coffee> shadowm: so you are thinking of moving the MP to a different server and using a proxy to direct traffic?
20130930 10:20:46< shadowm> No.
20130930 10:23:08< shadowm> It wouldn't hurt at all, but 1) we wouldn't want to do proxying because that'd still require wesnoth.org to serve as the frontend, thus not really solving anything; 2) either for proxying or plain old redirecting we'd either need a second/third server of our own third donated server.
20130930 10:23:42< shadowm> *of our own or a third donated server.
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20130930 13:52:46< irker389> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master bf3fbe2d4993 / po/wesnoth-httt/de.po: updated German translation http://git.io/diJATw
20130930 13:52:49< irker389> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:1.10 1b4d2aaa68e8 / po/wesnoth-httt/de.po: updated German translation http://git.io/IN2m5g
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20130930 15:44:17< irker389> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 57a08779f582 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/ (images/units/orcish-watch-tower.png units/Watch_Tower.cfg): SotBE: remove unused Watch Tower unit http://git.io/-NGD9w
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20130930 15:45:56< irker389> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9e23562218d8 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/12_Giving_Some_Back.cfg: SotBE::12_Giving_Some_Back: remove kill event for watch tower http://git.io/CJboXw
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20130930 17:06:28< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master a208620cf019 / src/ (19 files in 2 dirs): added hotkeys for wml menu items, step1 (changes in game_events.cpp missing) http://git.io/SaIZjQ
20130930 17:06:30< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master fec705a88d55 / src/ (game_events.cpp hotkeys.cpp): added hotkeys for wml menu items step2 http://git.io/-X_big
20130930 17:06:32< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 1440338faa57 / src/ (game_events.cpp gamestatus.cpp gamestatus.hpp play_controller.cpp): adding wml menu hotkeys: used use_hotkey=no/only instead of no_hotkey=yes in wml http://git.io/4hQI_Q
20130930 17:06:34< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 9f8d46a02bd5 / src/game_events.cpp: correction of a comment http://git.io/91wAjA
20130930 17:06:36< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master b7f7aaa879ec / src/game_events.cpp: removed ignore_filter_on_hotkey in game_events.cpp http://git.io/BtcLjw
20130930 17:06:38< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 705b4cd9264d / src/gamestatus.cpp: removed ignore_filter_on_hotkey in gamestatus.cpp http://git.io/GH3FGw
20130930 17:06:40< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master facb12005457 / src/play_controller.cpp: removed ignore_filter_on_hotkey in play_controller.cpp http://git.io/_kkvJA
20130930 17:06:42< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 8d53444490c1 / src/gamestatus.hpp: removed ignore_filter_on_hotkey in gamestatus.hpp http://git.io/WmKugw
20130930 17:06:44< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 1d9acbfaaa2c / src/gamestatus.cpp: Update gamestatus.cpp http://git.io/lj3jyQ
20130930 17:06:46< irker389> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 83020d47e319 / src/game_events.cpp: Update game_events.cpp http://git.io/65ldkw
20130930 17:06:48< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 3bb03f094ff8 / src/ (20 files in 3 dirs): Merge pull request #58 from gfgtdf/master http://git.io/C1Edmg
20130930 17:06:50< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 05e2ccf8884c / src/ (game_events/handlers.cpp gamestatus.hpp): Expose WMI ID and use it http://git.io/A3WDEg
20130930 17:06:52< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 1120146ca618 / src/play_controller.cpp: Reference WMI by the ID, not the name http://git.io/9oBFWw
20130930 17:06:54< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 1c5fc2dcd53c / src/play_controller.cpp: Remove useless typedef http://git.io/wnqSNQ
20130930 17:06:56< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 1bb0e94d875a / data/scenario-test.cfg: Add WMI hotkey testcases http://git.io/TRIP7w
20130930 17:06:58< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 780bb59c5be2 / src/ (game_events/handlers.cpp gamestatus.cpp gamestatus.hpp play_controller.cpp): Make the hotkey-related WMI fields private, provide read-only accessors http://git.io/uUfUQw
20130930 17:07:00< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master da627ef8a39e / src/gamestatus.cpp: Reverse some broken logic http://git.io/LHis6A
20130930 17:07:02< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 89442ceae740 / changelog: Changelog entry for WMI hotkeys http://git.io/Hpj8Dg
20130930 17:07:04< irker389> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master fb4e394b64a4 / / (22 files in 5 dirs): Merge branch 'gfgtdf-master' http://git.io/Vnp7MQ
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20130930 17:36:39< irker389> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master acf4768a79cc / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/scenarios/19_Showdown_in_the_Northern_Swamp.cfg: DM::19_Showdown_in_the_Northern_Swamp: fix ellipse issue for Lionel http://git.io/Acp7ow
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20130930 18:10:42< irker389> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master c68c0881d570 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/utils/ (characters.cfg sides.cfg): DM: fix missing ellipse issue for Chantal http://git.io/42-2qQ
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20130930 19:31:16< gfgtdf> AI0867: are you online?, i'm about to tidy up my forked repo and might break it completely, is there a problem with that?
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20130930 21:40:44< irker062> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 6bb1b1910f14 / data/campaigns/Sceptre_of_Fire/scenarios/6_Towards_the_Caves.cfg: SoF: Fix missing ellipse issue for Alanin http://git.io/2tYKIA
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20130930 22:10:11< shadowm> Ivanovic, loonycyborg : Since you are in charge of cmake and scons respectively, you should probably see the email in the devs ML about the appdata stuff if you haven't already.
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20130930 23:10:27< thunderstruck> Games in MP lobby might have this "Default - .." description. does anyone else also thinks that it's unclear that this "Default" is about era?
20130930 23:11:42< shadowm_desktop> Yes.
20130930 23:15:49< thunderstruck> Good. I have an idea to not display eras/mods and all those icons on every single game in lobby, but to display them somewhere on top for the current selection.
20130930 23:16:12< shadowm_desktop> Wouldn't "Era: $era" work?
20130930 23:16:24< thunderstruck> It would. But it's already so crowded.
20130930 23:16:27< _Coffee> thunderstruck: shouldn't you need to display the era at least
20130930 23:16:47< thunderstruck> Those game items are so crowded with all the details on them*
20130930 23:16:47< _Coffee> in playing you would normally wait to see  a reasonable game and then join
20130930 23:16:59< _Coffee> not scroll over each game to see if it is worth joining
20130930 23:17:09< shadowm_desktop> I personally think being able to see the eras for each game allows era authors to survey popularity.
20130930 23:17:28< shadowm_desktop> Given the lack of a more sophisticated stats system for UMC in general.
20130930 23:17:56< _Coffee> no one who's played for a bit wants to join a game that will be boring
20130930 23:18:17< _Coffee> and you can tell from things like era/start gold/fog/etc. settings
20130930 23:18:43< thunderstruck> Hmm...
20130930 23:18:48< _Coffee> and there are lots of games in MP, you couldn't sit there clicking over each to see ther settings
20130930 23:19:21< thunderstruck> Given that there are usually just a few games with vacant slots on the server, I personally don't see a problem with clicking on them to investigate them further.
20130930 23:19:40< _Coffee> I think many players would disagree with that
20130930 23:20:05< _Coffee> normally (what I do) is do something else, and on another screen see occasionally if something is worth joining
20130930 23:20:13< _Coffee> and then focus on the game
20130930 23:20:23< thunderstruck> I see.
20130930 23:20:47< _Coffee> I believe this is what lots of players do
20130930 23:21:21< thunderstruck> So, could you tell if there are currently things which might not be immediately visible? Or everything's very important?
20130930 23:21:29< _Coffee> and (slightly off topic) hence the problem with the experimental lobby not staying at bottom when there are many games
20130930 23:21:57< _Coffee> lots of players use the old lobby
20130930 23:22:08< _Coffee> because it stays focused on the bottom and scrolls with the games'
20130930 23:22:21< _Coffee> so new games always come up without any input on the player's behalf
20130930 23:22:51< _Coffee> and if a game goes too far up the list that it is off screen, few people will join
20130930 23:23:01< _Coffee> so the host has to rehost
20130930 23:23:26< _Coffee> but that is okay and intended
20130930 23:23:37< _Coffee> so you can see which games the host has left for some reason as well
20130930 23:23:53< _Coffee> you wouldn't want to join if the host has left to do something else
20130930 23:25:13< _Coffee> if the game is one with +800 start gold, +40 income, different thatn standard fog and a crazy era it is not worth joining
20130930 23:25:34< _Coffee> and ideally I think most players would want to know this before clicking on the game
20130930 23:27:27< thunderstruck> Well, I think that lobby's game items are a mess and quite confusing for new players. But being only an occasional mp players, I can't really argue a lot about it.
20130930 23:27:44< thunderstruck> mp player*
20130930 23:27:57< justinzane> Does anyone here use Eclipse CDT + SConsolidator ?
20130930 23:28:07< _Coffee> well, you can show all this information in a simple way with the icons
20130930 23:28:20< _Coffee> so you get all this information at a glance without taking up much space
20130930 23:28:43< _Coffee> maybe you could make it a color that fades a bit into the background and does not stand out?
20130930 23:29:39< thunderstruck> Perhaps. But that does not really solve an issue that game item is crowded and it does not yet display all the information needed.
20130930 23:30:00< _Coffee> thunderstruck: arew you talking about the new lobby or old lobby?
20130930 23:30:02< thunderstruck> E.g. I want it to display campaign's difficulty, but there's not really enough space for that.
20130930 23:30:14< thunderstruck> Is new lobby = experimental lobby?
20130930 23:30:19< _Coffee> yeah
20130930 23:30:45< thunderstruck> I was talking about old lobby.
20130930 23:31:04< thunderstruck> By the way, I only tried experimental lobby with latest dev.
20130930 23:31:36< thunderstruck> I never thought that some people are using it.
20130930 23:31:49< _Coffee> thunderstruck: no one uses the new lobby :P
20130930 23:32:06< shadowm> Some poor souls do.
20130930 23:32:19< _Coffee> primarily because of the scrolling thing where it does not stay on new games, but jumps to old games at top
20130930 23:32:42< shadowm> That's mostly because it's affected by various lacks and bugs in GUI2.
20130930 23:33:20< _Coffee> thunderstruck: looks like there is room for another line of text in the old lobby design for new games
20130930 23:33:21< justinzane> in unit_id.hpp you can get a next_fake_id(). What is a "fake id"? 
20130930 23:33:55< _Coffee> thunderstruck: clever use of bold and text colors and size could make it work
20130930 23:34:26< _Coffee> currently it is a bit in your face with the text and IMO needs some rework
20130930 23:35:06< thunderstruck> _Coffee: I was thinking about adding a new line, but it would just make matter worse.
20130930 23:35:16< _Coffee> thunderstruck: why?
20130930 23:35:46< thunderstruck> _Coffee: 4 lines of text + icons per one game. That's too much information.
20130930 23:35:50< _Coffee> if you make the title bold and make the subtext slightly more fit in with the background so it doesn't stand out as much it might work IMO
20130930 23:36:14< _Coffee> thunderstruck: I'm happy to do a 'mspaint' thing with you if you want?
20130930 23:36:24< _Coffee> so we can see it?
20130930 23:36:44< thunderstruck> _Coffee: I wouldn't mind :)
20130930 23:38:09< thunderstruck> _Coffee: I was just thinking to bring this to the forums for more opinions.
20130930 23:38:09< _Coffee> that is probably a good idea
20130930 23:38:09< _Coffee> there are qualified artists that actually know what they are doing :D
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20130930 23:43:00< thunderstruck> _Coffee: What do you think about moving map size info just above the map itself?
20130930 23:43:22< thunderstruck> And also, the number of players could be displayed along the icons.
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20130930 23:43:46< thunderstruck> Above or below*
20130930 23:44:00< _Coffee> thunderstruck: sound okay to me, although you don't want the map to be too small an icon
20130930 23:45:50< thunderstruck> Okay. I will think about this later.
20130930 23:45:52< thunderstruck> I'm going now.
20130930 23:46:12< _Coffee> see you
20130930 23:46:22< thunderstruck> See ya.
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 01 00:00:49 2013