--- Log opened Sat Oct 12 00:00:41 2013
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20131012 00:48:07< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • [STATUS] Scheduled Wesnoth.org site migration downtime by shadowm [ 10-11-2013 22:45 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p560813 ]
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20131012 03:32:24< irker912> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master cad93470b016 / data/core/macros/animation-utils.cfg: AnimationWML: minor animation macro cleanup. http://git.io/-H099w
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20131012 04:41:01-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 197 bugs, 339 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131012 05:12:25< irker912> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 46dd24228ea4 / data/core/units/humans/ (Mage_Arch.cfg Mage_Great.cfg Mage_Red.cfg): minor sound timing change for red mage line fire attack. http://git.io/QJPy9Q
20131012 05:37:48< mattsc> thunderstruck: I tested your changes with a couple local MP games and all looks good as far as I am concerned.
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20131012 11:02:58< boucman> Coffee_irc: around ?
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20131012 12:05:45< Coffee_irc> boucman:  ping
20131012 12:05:59< boucman> ok, so what's going on :)
20131012 12:06:04< Coffee_irc> hi
20131012 12:06:16< Coffee_irc> I've been doing some bug fixing with animation WML
20131012 12:06:24< boucman> cool
20131012 12:06:26< Coffee_irc> and I want to make sure I've got it right
20131012 12:06:51< Coffee_irc> recently I've tracked down the bugs that made you have to have duration 1 leading sound frames
20131012 12:07:00< Coffee_irc> and also for the blank hex and halos
20131012 12:07:25< Coffee_irc> and I'm pretty sure I got it right, but I want to ask in case it may lead to problems
20131012 12:07:27< boucman> huh ? the 1 duration sound frame wasn't a bug afaict
20131012 12:07:35< boucman> that's how it was expected to work...
20131012 12:08:02< boucman> (i'm not sure about blank hex and haloes, but let's deal with one problem at a time)
20131012 12:08:19< boucman> there is no such thing as "sound frame" all frames are the same and follow the same rules...
20131012 12:08:23< Coffee_irc> well, as I see it, the sound used to work by starting at the time of the first frame
20131012 12:08:33< boucman> when was that ?
20131012 12:08:34< Coffee_irc> so you have a frame for unit animation
20131012 12:08:50< Coffee_irc> and a separate sound_frame, and the time to start would be the frame, and not the sound_frame
20131012 12:08:58< Coffee_irc> until I pushed a commit or 2 :)
20131012 12:09:31< boucman> do you have links to these commits, I might understand faster that way
20131012 12:09:39< Coffee_irc> e994f92fa328d1318b203c9ea27f15202a080f7f
20131012 12:09:47< Coffee_irc> this one for the sound
20131012 12:09:56< boucman> but having sub-animations start at their start time instead of the start time of the animation seems like a bad idea to me
20131012 12:09:58< Coffee_irc> e994f92fa328d1318b203c9ea27f15202a080f7f
20131012 12:10:03< Coffee_irc> this one for the halos
20131012 12:10:39< Coffee_irc> I cheated a bit
20131012 12:10:48< Coffee_irc> they still start at the time of the first frame
20131012 12:10:59< Coffee_irc> but the sound does not play iuntil the start of the sound_frame
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20131012 12:12:10< boucman> sounds like a bad idea to me... but let me a minute to think of it a bit
20131012 12:12:10< Coffee_irc> all the code really happens in unit_animation.cpp -- unit_animation::particule::redraw
20131012 12:12:23< boucman> what if the subanimation is not a sound-frame, wouldn't that screw them up ?
20131012 12:12:36< Coffee_irc> no
20131012 12:12:44< Coffee_irc> because it still plays the frame animation
20131012 12:12:54< Coffee_irc> just not the sound file until the start of the sound file
20131012 12:13:25< Coffee_irc> the way it works is that I check to see if the current frame (with the sound) has started or not
20131012 12:13:32< boucman> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/e994f92fa328d1318b203c9ea27f15202a080f7f <= this has nothing sound specific...
20131012 12:13:36< Coffee_irc> and if not, then do not set the last_frame_begin_time
20131012 12:14:00< Coffee_irc> yeah it does
20131012 12:14:24< boucman> where ? i think i'm missing somehting...
20131012 12:14:27< Coffee_irc> if the sound_frame has not started it will not set the "true" flag there for the sound to play
20131012 12:14:54< Coffee_irc> under unit_frame::redraw
20131012 12:15:17< boucman> I really don't like that.
20131012 12:15:21< Coffee_irc> the flag only gets set once the frame has started
20131012 12:15:30< Coffee_irc> this is why I put lots of comments in
20131012 12:15:46< Coffee_irc> it solves the problem of having poison_time, etc. having to have the duration 1 frames
20131012 12:16:10< boucman> we need a way for the artists to have control of the animation "padding" at the beginning and at the end. We do that by "extending" the first/last frame, and if needed that frame can have a duration of 1 and be empty
20131012 12:16:25< Coffee_irc> boucman: that is why I said I cheated a bit
20131012 12:16:26< boucman> but the full control should be in the artist hand, the engine shouldn't have special cases
20131012 12:16:34< Coffee_irc> it still shows the frame before and after
20131012 12:16:38< Coffee_irc> just not the sound
20131012 12:16:51< Coffee_irc> just not the sound
20131012 12:16:52< boucman> hmm
20131012 12:17:07< Coffee_irc> see it runs the code with the flag false
20131012 12:17:14< Coffee_irc> until the start time of the sound_frame
20131012 12:17:32< Coffee_irc> so the frame will still have the extended images shown
20131012 12:17:37< Coffee_irc> before and after
20131012 12:17:44< Coffee_irc> but not the sound
20131012 12:18:19< boucman> ok... i'm torn on that one...
20131012 12:18:22< Coffee_irc> this meant that I could remove all the duration 1 sound frames
20131012 12:18:34< boucman> on the one hand, now that I understand what you do, it does work indeed
20131012 12:18:43< boucman> but on the other hand 
20131012 12:18:54< Coffee_irc> the halo is the trickier one
20131012 12:19:08< Coffee_irc> I figure the sound one should work at the time you specify it to start
20131012 12:19:10< boucman> 1) I don't think the duration1 frames are a problem per se...
20131012 12:19:42< Coffee_irc> well, they are not very professional to have around the place IMO
20131012 12:19:47< boucman> 2) I don't like that the function has a param called "first time" which is actually not the first time the anim is played, you should rename that or provide another parameter
20131012 12:19:56< boucman> that's for future proofing...
20131012 12:20:29< Coffee_irc> no the "first time" is correct
20131012 12:20:38< Coffee_irc> that is what was there to begin with
20131012 12:20:45< Coffee_irc> and will only play once per current frame
20131012 12:21:01< Coffee_irc> the difference is that it is not triggered until the frame start time is reached
20131012 12:21:06< boucman> it's not, it's not the first time the frame is displayed, it's the first bump within it's specified time range, which is different
20131012 12:21:20< Coffee_irc> oh, I see
20131012 12:21:22< Coffee_irc> you are right
20131012 12:21:24< boucman> so rename it to "on start time" or something like that
20131012 12:21:51< boucman> and secondly you should change the AnimationWML wiki page to explain that somewhere... :P
20131012 12:21:57< Coffee_irc> yes
20131012 12:22:08< boucman> and in that case i'm good with it...
20131012 12:22:12< Coffee_irc> it is unintuitive the frames stuff, with the 1st and last frame being extended
20131012 12:22:12< boucman> now to the haloes :P
20131012 12:22:22< boucman> it's documented ;)
20131012 12:22:25< Coffee_irc> I'll rename the parameter
20131012 12:22:31< Coffee_irc> well...
20131012 12:22:43< Coffee_irc> with the haloes I did something similar
20131012 12:23:01< Coffee_irc> and cut them off from showing before and after the frame time
20131012 12:23:18< Coffee_irc> with a return command in unit_frame::redraw
20131012 12:23:24< boucman> ok... honestly I don't really remember how haloes work
20131012 12:23:38< boucman> nowdays you can do everything with animations and shouldn't need haloes at all anyway
20131012 12:23:44< Coffee_irc> well, this is where I was hoping to get some clarifiation
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20131012 12:23:56< Coffee_irc> the halos are used for missile animations
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20131012 12:24:10< Coffee_irc> for example, the sorceress faerie_fire
20131012 12:24:14< Coffee_irc> or drake flames
20131012 12:24:21< Coffee_irc> or saurian magic
20131012 12:24:39< boucman> yeah, artists know haloes they tend to use them...
20131012 12:24:46< Coffee_irc> the halo that surrounds a stationary unit is set as the max time
20131012 12:24:56< Coffee_irc> so it is not affected by the start and end time
20131012 12:25:00< Coffee_irc> but the attacks are
20131012 12:25:19< Coffee_irc> and I figure that the only usage of halos in attack is limited to the scope of the frame
20131012 12:25:32< Coffee_irc> unlike the "frames" where the image is extended before and after
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20131012 12:26:00< Coffee_irc> this is why I put the return command in the unit_frame::redraw function
20131012 12:26:11< Coffee_irc> before the halos if not in the time range
20131012 12:26:23< Coffee_irc> and it works to simplify all the halos
20131012 12:26:32< Coffee_irc> to remove all the duration 1 halo frames
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20131012 12:26:49< boucman> ok, sounds good
20131012 12:27:07< Coffee_irc> like in commit 39ed562bf37c621f57366e1928efb964367edb1c
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20131012 12:27:21< Coffee_irc> well, I am glad it makes sense
20131012 12:27:52< Coffee_irc> because now there is no need for any duration 1 frames of any sort as padding, apart from frame images before and after
20131012 12:27:56< boucman> note that you have removed a (unused) possibility to the engine, to have sound start at the start of the anim, independently of the sub-anim's frame time... which can be important since the start time can be influenced by your oponent's animation
20131012 12:28:42< Coffee_irc> this is true
20131012 12:28:56< Coffee_irc> but if no start time is specified, does it not start at the begining time?
20131012 12:29:06< boucman> I don't remember
20131012 12:29:11< Coffee_irc> maybe it should
20131012 12:29:16< Coffee_irc> I could do that
20131012 12:29:47< Coffee_irc> this way no functionality would be lost
20131012 12:32:37< Coffee_irc> I'm glad that all makes sense boucman -- just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything essential with these changes
20131012 12:32:39< boucman> could be important for haloes, yes... also check what happens with backward compatibility 
20131012 12:32:49< boucman> no, sounds good
20131012 12:33:18< Coffee_irc> yeah, I was wondering about halos
20131012 12:33:33< Coffee_irc> but is seems like units with halos around them have them set at all times
20131012 12:33:42< Coffee_irc> like the shyde halo
20131012 12:34:08< Coffee_irc> no units have halos set only as waiting defense animations and such
20131012 12:41:17< Coffee_irc> seems like the start time is set by default to the 'defend' block start time for other frames
20131012 12:41:40< Coffee_irc> I can change this and update the documentation
20131012 12:42:19< Coffee_irc> I doubt this will affect any existing mainline/addon units
20131012 12:44:39< Coffee_irc> boucman: in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML#Field_Description the begin/end tags are depreciated
20131012 12:44:57< Coffee_irc> this is not something to aim for 1.12 with is it?
20131012 12:45:12< boucman> i'ts way older than that :P
20131012 12:45:39< boucman> we are in frames. frames are defined by their duration. 
20131012 12:46:09< boucman> begin is a subanimation/animation level concept. there should be no begin in individual frames
20131012 12:46:16< Coffee_irc> many other features have some text saying that if you use such and such depreciated feature it will be removed in some later version
20131012 12:46:41< boucman> historically (1.4 and older from memory) each frame had a begin= and end= which made it very complicated to retime/update animations
20131012 12:46:47< Coffee_irc> with bumbadadabum's help I think we can remove all instances in mainline and compaigns
20131012 12:46:55< boucman> sounds good
20131012 12:47:00< bumbadadabum> I heard my name
20131012 12:47:07< vultraz> YEs you did 
20131012 12:47:08< Coffee_irc> all core/units are already changed over to the new syntax and macros
20131012 12:47:26< boucman> wmllint might even have a check/update for that
20131012 12:47:41< Coffee_irc> yeah, you've helped with the unit frame syntax transition
20131012 12:48:29< Coffee_irc> boucman: oh yeah, wmllint needs to be updated for this
20131012 12:48:36< Coffee_irc> thanks for the reminder
20131012 12:48:41< Coffee_irc> sort of :P
20131012 12:49:35< boucman> np
20131012 12:49:53 * boucman afk for 15'
20131012 12:50:01< Coffee_irc> np
20131012 12:50:36< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: I fixed the halo thing for the units and updated the dragonguard animation WML
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20131012 13:11:11< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: oh cool
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20131012 13:19:58< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: Which campaigns aren't converted yet?
20131012 13:20:08< bumbadadabum> I know about UtBS, but that's a special case
20131012 13:20:19< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: a search for 'begin=' will give you the list
20131012 13:20:45< Coffee_irc> I don't want to spoil it, but it is still most of them :P
20131012 13:20:57< bumbadadabum> I did HttT
20131012 13:20:59< bumbadadabum> so...
20131012 13:21:02< bumbadadabum> I'll do DiD now
20131012 13:21:50< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: HttT seems to have units that are still in the old syntax
20131012 13:22:02< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: I made a PR for that
20131012 13:22:14< Coffee_irc> PR?
20131012 13:22:26< bumbadadabum> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/pull/78
20131012 13:22:32< Coffee_irc> of course
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20131012 13:23:20< vultraz> shouldn't bumbadadabum be a dev by now?
20131012 13:23:56< bumbadadabum> should I?
20131012 13:24:48< vultraz> you did say you had done >2 patches, and you're doing more stuff
20131012 13:25:02< bumbadadabum> I guess...
20131012 13:25:40< bumbadadabum> It would be nice to have yeah
20131012 13:27:08< Coffee_irc> I'm newish here myself, but it makes sense to me as well
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20131012 13:37:18< bumbadadabum> I'd have to wait for an admin to decide on that
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20131012 13:42:33< irker912> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master bcd8b8df5123 / src/ (unit_frame.cpp unit_frame.hpp): minor change to unit frame redraw internal parameter to better reflect function. http://git.io/-s-QZg
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20131012 15:19:57< bumbadadabum> I made some more changes in my pull request
20131012 15:20:47< bumbadadabum> I might change the Sleeping Gryphons once again
20131012 15:21:06< bumbadadabum> but for now, their awakening is more elegant
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20131012 16:29:35< zooko> Greetings, people of #wesnoth-dev!
20131012 16:29:49< bumbadadabum> Greetings
20131012 16:29:56< zooko> My now-12yo son has a question about wml.
20131012 16:30:44< bumbadadabum> Feel free to ask
20131012 16:30:47< zooko> “When you're under a tag, for example, an event, that is like attack or something, you can find unit.moves or unit.hp or something.”
20131012 16:31:01< zooko> “How would you find the move-type of that unit for a particular type of terrain?”
20131012 16:31:04< zooko> Thanks, bumbadadabum!
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20131012 16:33:23< zookeeper> well, you can't find the movement costs and defense on a terrain, only on the terrain archetypes (flat, hills, sand, etc). so if you for example have a village on a mountain, you can't directly read the unit's defense on that terrain.
20131012 16:33:53< zookeeper> so what approach you need depends on what exactly you need to do
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20131012 16:34:48< zookeeper> you _can_ find the unit's defense on the terrain it's currently standing on, for example
20131012 16:35:04< zooko> He says “I do not need specifically the terrain that it is on, I just need a specific terrain, but not its current terrain.”
20131012 16:35:38< zooko> “The question is just what would you write, to find the movement cost for a terrain for a unit.”
20131012 16:36:17< zookeeper> what terrain it is, then? if it's always the same terrain and it's a simple non-layered terrain, then it's easy, but otherwise it's going to be pretty ackward.
20131012 16:36:54< zooko> “I'm looking for just unwalkable in this case.”
20131012 16:37:11< zookeeper> oh okay
20131012 16:37:27< zookeeper> in that case $unit.movement_costs.unwalkable should be what you want
20131012 16:37:50< zooko> “Okay, I'll try that. Thanks!”
20131012 16:38:15< zooko> “Will the other movement costs and defenses and stuff be found the same way?”
20131012 16:38:45< zookeeper> hrhm, wait a minute, i gotta double-check what i just said
20131012 16:41:23< zookeeper> ok, what i said is kinda correct, except that for units that can't move on unwalkable, $unit.movement_costs.unwalkable is empty. so you probably need to check whether $unit.movement_costs.unwalkable is greater than 0 or something like that.
20131012 16:42:13< zooko> “Ok”
20131012 16:42:19< zooko> “That makes sense.”
20131012 16:42:32< zooko> He ran off.
20131012 16:42:33< zookeeper> and yes, the other terrains will be found the same way. but only the terrain archetypes like castle, cave, flat, frozen, shallow_water and so on, _not_ for example bridge, keep, dirt, etc.
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20131012 16:42:39< zookeeper> right :P
20131012 16:44:24< zookeeper> the best way to make sure what sort of unit attributes you can access is to open up a savefile (they're in tar.gz archives by default, so you might want to turn off compressed saves in the preferences first) in a text editor and see what sort of stuff is stored inside each unit.
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20131012 16:46:26< mattsc> zookeeper, zooko: you can also do :inspect in debug mode and click on any unit.
20131012 16:46:45< zookeeper> oh right. i forget about all that new fancy stuff :}
20131012 16:46:50< mattsc> :)
20131012 16:46:56< zookeeper> that is indeed the more convenient way
20131012 16:47:14 * zookeeper is old school
20131012 16:47:32< mattsc> \me still uses vi for some text editing
20131012 16:48:22 * zookeeper is not _that_ kind of old school
20131012 16:48:48< mattsc> ... but apparently I can't keep my slashes straight ...
20131012 16:58:47< vultraz> mattsc: you're on mac, right?
20131012 16:58:56< mattsc> vultraz: yes
20131012 16:59:10< vultraz> XCode?
20131012 16:59:53< mattsc> For compiling Wesnoth, but only for that.
20131012 17:00:05< mattsc> As in, I have no other experience with it.
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20131012 17:03:50< vultraz> would you mind taking over maintenance of the wesnoth xcode projfile? Until last month, I was juggling between a 7 year old windows laptop and a 7 tear old mac, the latter of which had my wesnoth build enviro. I got a new laptop, but it's windows, and the old mac's battery is busted, so I won't be able to actively update it anymore
20131012 17:04:20< bumbadadabum> vultraz: You're officially not a mac dev anymore?
20131012 17:04:54< vultraz> bumbadadabum: ATM I do not have an up to date build since I cannot figure how to transfer my clone to this computer
20131012 17:05:04< vultraz> and I plan on moving to windows
20131012 17:05:07< vultraz> so...I guess no
20131012 17:05:15< bumbadadabum> welp
20131012 17:05:22< bumbadadabum> How many mac devs are left, then?
20131012 17:05:24< bumbadadabum> just 2?
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20131012 17:06:42< vultraz> 1 active
20131012 17:06:43< vultraz> :P
20131012 17:06:45< vultraz> mattsc
20131012 17:06:52< vultraz> LordBob uses mac, but isn;t a dev
20131012 17:07:02< bumbadadabum> he technically is
20131012 17:07:04< vultraz> Alarantalara is MIA
20131012 17:07:09< mattsc> vultraz: sure, no problem.  You mean just updating the file list in the project file etc., right?
20131012 17:07:15< vultraz> yes
20131012 17:07:27< vultraz> also bumping the build version number on releases
20131012 17:07:31< mattsc> Alarantalara is not missing, just very busy with other things.
20131012 17:07:37< mattsc> He does reply to PMs etc.
20131012 17:07:40< vultraz> (for the projfile)
20131012 17:08:08< mattsc> Turuk also builds on a Mac
20131012 17:08:19< bumbadadabum> ok
20131012 17:08:27< bumbadadabum> so it's not AS dead as I think
20131012 17:08:42< bumbadadabum> but there still aren't that many mac devs
20131012 17:08:58< bumbadadabum> while there are a lot of users on a mac
20131012 17:09:26< vultraz> bumbadadabum: you abandoned mac too IIRC
20131012 17:09:27< vultraz> :P
20131012 17:09:30< bumbadadabum> yep
20131012 17:09:53< bumbadadabum> but I never did any dev stuff on mac
20131012 17:10:13< bumbadadabum> well that's a lie, I did some things on there
20131012 17:10:36< bumbadadabum> but yeah, I switched as well
20131012 17:11:24< vultraz> Once I get my clone over here...then it's time to begin the hell of compiling on windows :P
20131012 17:11:40< vultraz> shadowm: did you ever get CB to use CCache or what'sitcalled?
20131012 17:12:31< shadowm> I didn't look into it further. Upstream ccache apparently doesn't support Windows and I wasn't about to download files from nameless hosts.
20131012 17:13:23< shadowm> Plus compile times on nanacore are very decent even when going through the VM indirection.
20131012 17:13:46< vultraz> yeah, well, you have twice the cores I do
20131012 17:14:11< vultraz> 8 files per second build
20131012 17:17:52< shadowm> I only allocated four cores to the VM.
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20131012 19:38:33< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 36a759e56f76 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/units/ (8 files): Updated the HttT animationwml to the new syntax http://git.io/2Pihzg
20131012 19:38:35< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 895e0c963d12 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/units/ (Commander.cfg Lord.cfg Princess.cfg): Ran wmlindent http://git.io/yBBUyQ
20131012 19:38:37< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 87b5054e3429 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/units/ (Battle_Princess.cfg Commander.cfg Lord.cfg Princess.cfg): Updated leading anims for the HttT units http://git.io/RCWRDw
20131012 19:38:39< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 00d1b3d3a836 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/units/Sleeping_Gryphon.cfg: Made it so the Sleeping Gryphon is never quick http://git.io/5OvpHw
20131012 19:38:41< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 891e5cb34ea5 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/10_Gryphon_Mountain.cfg: Changed the sleeping Gryphon code in Gryphon Mountain http://git.io/R3Mjxg
20131012 19:38:43< irker929> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 4b31a005f273 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/10_Gryphon_Mountain.cfg: Changed the way Sleeping Gryphons awaken http://git.io/glSCcg
20131012 19:38:45< irker929> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 412720c3ff6d / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Merge pull request #78 from bumbadadabum/master http://git.io/wlsglQ
20131012 19:39:37< bumbadadabum> AI0867: Thanks for merging
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20131012 23:23:06< fabi_> shadowm: Hi, nice to see you migrating our services. I wish you a lucky hand with the issues.
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 13 00:00:41 2013