--- Log opened Sun Nov 03 00:00:06 2013
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20131103 00:47:17< irker232> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master fae77eec5a1c / data/core/macros/ai_micro_ais.cfg: Change Micro AI engine macro deprecation message string http://git.io/CKDLoQ
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20131103 00:48:36< mattsc> shadowm: that ^ should take care of the wmllint spelling warnings you got
20131103 00:49:22< mattsc> There are a whole bunch more in data/ai/  (some of which are my doing, some aren't).  I'll take care of those too.
20131103 00:49:36< shadowm> Uhm.
20131103 00:49:46< shadowm> Okay, first of all, why is the message translatable now?
20131103 00:49:56< shadowm> Second, you do realize you could have just added "# wmllint: no spellcheck" to that line?
20131103 00:50:28< mattsc> shadowm: I figured that it should have been translatable in the first place.  Shouldn't it?
20131103 00:51:06< mattsc> Second, yes, I do, but I thought I remember something that you should have macros and variables inside messages, or it causes trouble with translations.
20131103 00:51:16< shadowm> Messages for developers in general don't need to be, plus that schema you use (tstring + nontstring + tstring concatenation) is bound to be confusing, useless, or even detrimental for translators.
20131103 00:51:54< mattsc> *shot NOT
20131103 00:51:55< shadowm> Translating text most of the time does not result in a 1:1 word count and order match from the source language to the target.
20131103 00:51:57< mattsc> grr...
20131103 00:52:02< mattsc> *should not
20131103 00:52:20< mattsc> okay - so what I did is the way it should not be done?
20131103 00:52:30< mattsc> Sigh ...
20131103 00:52:44< mattsc> I thought I was doing something right just for once.  ;P
20131103 00:52:51< Espreon> Sigh.
20131103 00:52:52< shadowm> For example, to translate that to Spanish, I'd be facing a problem.
20131103 00:53:21< shadowm> I can't just translate "The" on its own and the next string on its own too without breaking sentence structure.
20131103 00:53:29< mattsc> shadowm, Espreon: okay, so I remembered the discussion correctly, just backwards.
20131103 00:53:41 * mattsc is going to stand in a corner for a couple minutes
20131103 00:53:46< shadowm> It applies in multiple ways, really.
20131103 00:54:15< Espreon> Indeed.
20131103 00:54:20< shadowm> It is generally advised to not do text manipulation on translatable strings.
20131103 00:54:21< mattsc> shadowm: yeah, now that you say it it makes sense.
20131103 00:54:43< shadowm> This applies to any kind of text manipulation: concatenation, substitution, insertion, substring extraction...
20131103 00:54:57< shadowm> But the point is that developer messages generally don't need to be translatable in the first place.
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20131103 00:55:19< shadowm> Players are not supposed to see them during regular gameplay unless the content author/maintainer did something wrong.
20131103 00:55:22< bumbadadabum> you shouldn't make the macro less functional in order to make wmllint run
20131103 00:55:37< mattsc> shadowm: okay - sounds good
20131103 00:55:47< shadowm> If they do see them, they can report it verbatim to the author/maintainer, and he/she should know what to do.
20131103 00:55:48< mattsc> bumbadadabum: there was no change in functionality
20131103 00:56:08< bumbadadabum> Well, there is for translators
20131103 00:56:46< mattsc> bumbadadabum: oh, okay.  Yes, I misunderstood.
20131103 00:57:57< shadowm> So, as I was saying, for the Spanish translation I'd need to assume that the original sentence structure in English is not going to change and then rearrange my translation accordingly in order to have a concatenated result that makes sense.
20131103 00:58:17< shadowm> "La macro " " está marcada como obsoleta [...]"
20131103 00:58:37< shadowm> But I'd also need to assume that the original string "The " is not going to be marked as translatable in a completely different context within the same textdomain.
20131103 00:58:51< shadowm> Either in the present, or in the future.
20131103 00:59:29< shadowm> For a project of this size that's always changing, these kind of assumptions become quickly dangerous.
20131103 01:00:13< irker232> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master d1d18146f10d / data/core/macros/ai_micro_ais.cfg: Revert previous commit and add wmllint spellcheck exception http://git.io/cDHUYA
20131103 01:00:20< shadowm> And Spanish is really one of the simplest languages to translate from English. Things are trickier in languages where grammatical constructs require syntax changes on the object, etc.
20131103 01:00:35< bumbadadabum> yeah, same with Dutch
20131103 01:01:03< bumbadadabum> It's not really a problem for me personally
20131103 01:01:04< mattsc> shadowm: yeah, as I said, now that you say it, I remember the arguments.  Just shows again that trying to do things quickly from memory is dangerous.
20131103 01:01:07< bumbadadabum> but I can imagine it is in other languages
20131103 01:01:24< mattsc> Sorry for wasting everybody's time.
20131103 01:01:40< shadowm> mattsc: Nah, you aren't wasting my time. I love reading my words.
20131103 01:01:49< mattsc> shadowm: ha!
20131103 01:02:25< mattsc> This all makes perfect sense, esp. with me not being a native English speaker myself.
20131103 01:03:11< shadowm> Uh, I always kind of assumed you were.
20131103 01:03:19< shadowm> That you were a native speaker, that is.
20131103 01:03:45< bumbadadabum> me too
20131103 01:03:52< mattsc> Nope, I'm one of those overrepresented Germans among the Wesnoth developers.  :)
20131103 01:04:08< bumbadadabum> Ah
20131103 01:04:15< mattsc> Although I haven't lived in Germany in more than 20 years now, and in Europe not since 2000
20131103 01:04:39< bumbadadabum> Your name kinda gives away that you're german, in retrospect
20131103 01:04:52< mattsc> :)
20131103 01:11:09 * vultraz assumed that mattsc was a native English speaker
20131103 01:11:35< bumbadadabum> ^
20131103 01:12:07< bumbadadabum> I don't know what I can assume anymore
20131103 01:15:39< mattsc> Hee hee.  Thanks guys, I take those as compliments.
20131103 01:16:26< mattsc> I'm off now for the reason for which I was rushing through getting that commit done.
20131103 01:16:35< vultraz> (I also assumed he was american)
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20131103 01:40:09< irker232> wesnoth: Espreon wesnoth-old:1.10 5ba5de2d6932 / data/core/about.cfg: Updated the Spanish translation credits. http://git.io/O9W0Gg
20131103 01:40:24< irker232> wesnoth: Espreon wesnoth-old:master 20e1f5bd2f49 / data/core/about.cfg: Updated the Spanish translation credits. http://git.io/uSvYIg
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20131103 03:20:17< irker232> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master c0ee2c8e870b / data/ai/ (21 files in 4 dirs): Add wmllint spelling exceptions for files in data/ai/ http://git.io/LfxRYA
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20131103 10:30:51< Ivanovic> Rhonda: have you seen this post? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39401
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20131103 10:53:21< Rhonda> Ivanovic: There is 1.11.7?
20131103 10:53:41< Ivanovic> no
20131103 10:53:47< Rhonda> Good. :)
20131103 10:54:19< Rhonda> 1.11.6 is in Debian testing/unstable, I haven't got around to update my PPA though.  Sorry for that.
20131103 10:54:29< Ivanovic> :)
20131103 10:55:20< Rhonda> Depending on the differences with respect to other libraries, people might be able to install it from there even on Ubuntu.  But I'll update my PPA next week.
20131103 10:55:29< Rhonda> Tuesday probably.
20131103 10:55:48< Ivanovic> cool!
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20131103 10:56:34< Rhonda> Will follow up to the forum then, too.  Have to head off now again though.
20131103 10:57:00< Ivanovic> have fun
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20131103 11:07:01< Coffee_irc> ping thunderstruck
20131103 11:07:47< Coffee_irc> want a bug? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21213
20131103 11:08:05< Coffee_irc> ;)
20131103 11:09:16< AI0867> wesbot: bug #21213
20131103 11:09:16< wesbot> Bug #21213  Assigned to: None  Status: Confirmed  Priority: 5 - Normal
20131103 11:09:19< wesbot> Summary: Shuffle sides ignores leader selection
20131103 11:09:22< wesbot> Original submission: Whenever shuffle sides is turned on and at least one side
20131103 11:09:25< wesbot>  is assigned to the AI, chosen leaders are ignored and players are assigned rand
20131103 11:09:28< wesbot> URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?21213
20131103 11:10:24< Coffee_irc> oh, I see
20131103 11:11:06< Coffee_irc> in multiplayer_connect_engine.cpp::start_game it checks for playable sides only to be shuffled
20131103 11:14:10< Coffee_irc> I suppose this makes sense because of the auction-x map
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20131103 11:30:49< Coffee_irc> thunderstruck: nevermind, it actually appears to work as intended
20131103 11:31:31< thunderstruck> Hello
20131103 11:31:36< Coffee_irc> hi
20131103 11:31:36< thunderstruck> Ok, fine.
20131103 11:31:49< thunderstruck> I will try to look in to the other bug today.
20131103 11:32:15< Coffee_irc> I think shuffle sides is bug free in the dev version possibly :P
20131103 11:32:43< Coffee_irc> and it makes sense to onl suffle player sides
20131103 11:32:56< Coffee_irc> *only
20131103 11:36:16< thunderstruck> I mean the other bug which is assigned to me in gna!
20131103 11:36:23< thunderstruck> s/mean/meant
20131103 11:36:36< Coffee_irc> thunderstruck: not a shuffle sides thing?
20131103 11:37:00< thunderstruck> wesbot: bug #21218
20131103 11:37:00< wesbot> Bug #21218  Assigned to: Andrius Silinskas <thunderstruck>  Status: None  Priority: 4
20131103 11:37:03< wesbot> Summary: Eras using random_leader instead of leader
20131103 11:37:06< wesbot> Original submission: If you click to start a local MP game and choose 'default
20131103 11:37:09< wesbot>  era' you will not see the shock trooper for example as a leader choice. Looks l
20131103 11:37:12< wesbot> URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?21218
20131103 11:37:17< thunderstruck> Coffee_irc: ^
20131103 11:37:53< Coffee_irc> oh yeah, I think I posted that one :)
20131103 11:38:01< bumbadadabum> hmm
20131103 11:38:43< bumbadadabum> I don't think I ever had that problem before
20131103 11:39:04< thunderstruck> Coffee_irc: BTW, do you think that I posted that lobby game item revamp topic in the right place?
20131103 11:39:15< Coffee_irc> it is only in the recent dev version
20131103 11:39:22< thunderstruck> 'Cause there were no replies so far. Well, only from you.
20131103 11:39:29< Coffee_irc> thunderstruck: nope
20131103 11:39:31< bumbadadabum> I'm always using the latest dev
20131103 11:39:53< Coffee_irc> thunderstruck: the art thread is probably going to get more exposure to people you want to look at it
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20131103 11:40:54< bumbadadabum> thunderstruck: I think either this or dev discussions is the right place
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20131103 11:43:49< bumbadadabum> thunderstruck: I might revive the thread for you
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20131103 11:45:01< thunderstruck> bumbadadabum: Thanks.
20131103 11:47:35< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: I'm still trying to get multiple hit/miss animation blocks for the dark adept and units in general to work
20131103 11:47:50< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: Oh cool
20131103 11:47:58< Coffee_irc> it's harder than I though even though I have the pseudo code
20131103 11:48:06< bumbadadabum> Yeah
20131103 11:48:13< Coffee_irc> I might have to ask boucman for help
20131103 11:48:20< bumbadadabum> bouc explained it to me, and it seems it's very deep in the engine
20131103 11:49:49< Coffee_irc> I suppose he won't mind if I assign a bug with the pseudo code to fix it :D
20131103 11:52:24< boucman> Coffee_irc: not available right now, try another day :P
20131103 11:53:13< Coffee_irc> boucman: I know you are busy and in a different time zone
20131103 11:53:30< Coffee_irc> boucman: I have got to be up early tomorrow for work related things myself
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20131103 13:30:37< shadowm> wesbot: seen anonymissimus
20131103 13:30:37< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick anonymissimus last spoke 23d 17h ago.  19d 15h ago they left with the message: Client Quit
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20131103 14:44:02-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 195 bugs, 343 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131103 19:28:46< jamit> gfgtdf: Did you see my question on GitHub? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/3a8ff0f3ffc6ff270c386ad223e6f5fb501e90b9#commitcomment-4435857
20131103 19:32:45< gfgtdf> jamit: no havent. I dont know weather it would be sufficent but i suppose it is. Since it is compiler error i can easily check.
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20131103 19:38:13< gfgtdf> jamit: no, casting to void* didnt work.
20131103 19:39:51< jamit> Bummer. If it did, we could have made a NULLPTR #define, with the definition dependent on whether or not nullptr is supported.
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20131103 19:46:37< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 8394f3ae0fe7 / changelog src/actions/heal.cpp: Restore support for negative healing. http://git.io/gjoCuQ
20131103 19:46:39< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 4c40d172d5e3 / src/ (game_events/handlers.hpp play_controller.hpp): Convert game_events::manager from struct to class. http://git.io/ztv7gw
20131103 19:46:41< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 9637affb003b / src/game_events/ (handlers.cpp handlers.hpp): Change the vector of event handlers to be of pointers. http://git.io/ltS4uQ
20131103 19:46:43< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master cb7cedabf1c6 / src/game_events/handlers.cpp: Ignore disabled handlers when checking for existing ids and logging. http://git.io/_DeOgQ
20131103 19:46:45< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master a61be4389e7c / src/game_events/ (handlers.cpp handlers.hpp): Support null pointers in handler_vec. http://git.io/lqPHug
20131103 19:46:47< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 9732a77cf458 / src/game_events/ (handlers.cpp handlers.hpp): Remove handlers by pointer resets instead of erasing vector elements. http://git.io/rYkyOw
20131103 19:46:49< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master b6efc625e40c / src/game_events/ (handlers.cpp handlers.hpp pump.cpp): Disable event handlers by removing them. http://git.io/jc8Yuw
20131103 19:46:51< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master bfe219f94511 / src/game_events/ (handlers.cpp handlers.hpp pump.cpp): A new interface for iterating over events of a given name. http://git.io/4RIIcw
20131103 19:46:53< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 21ae9bb83721 / src/game_events/pump.cpp: Move some initializations outside a loop. http://git.io/J6z1IA
20131103 19:46:55< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 3a78062d3e0c / / (4 files in 2 dirs): Event handler buffering is no longer needed. http://git.io/9Q8TCg
20131103 19:46:57< irker499> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master aeabe9b1dbc7 / src/game_events/handlers.cpp: Code simplification made possible by previous commit. http://git.io/0KVgpg
20131103 19:48:41< gfgtdf> jamit: thats problems only occurs on msvc 2010 wich supports nullptr, but most other faeatures of c++11 not.
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20131103 19:49:19< gfgtdf> so you can define NULLPTR  as nullptr in msvc 2010
20131103 19:52:45< jamit> The test I had in mind was really #ifdef HAVE_CXX11, which is a test for ++cplusplus >= 201103L.
20131103 19:53:12< jamit> s/++/__
20131103 19:57:25< gfgtdf> jamit: msvc doesnt do the 201103L thing. with boost you could use the BOOST_NO_NULLPTR marco to check weather nullptr is supported
20131103 19:57:44< gfgtdf> jamit: but i dont know wich boost version is required fo that.
20131103 20:03:42< jamit> gfgtdf: If BOOST_NO_NULLPTR is set, is there a guarantee that the compiler will be able to construct a pair using NULL without a static cast?
20131103 20:07:36< gfgtdf> jamit: i actualy dont know what for example happens when you use a boost version wich was released before the compiler version, how these values ae defined, 
20131103 20:10:55< jamit> gfgtdf: No such guarantee means that I wouldn't want to use that approach. (Even if there was a guarantee, it feels like a rather hacky assumption to make.)
20131103 20:14:18< gfgtdf> jamit: i think with boost 1.40 in combination with msvc2010 with that might not work.
20131103 20:15:44< gfgtdf> jamit: i tihnk boost 1.44 is required to make this guarantee.
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20131103 20:44:02-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 195 bugs, 342 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131103 22:52:12< shadowm> "Overhaul of the game events engine. Among less noticeable details, this grants feature request #18713."
20131103 22:52:28< shadowm> This is the kind of change entry that makes me nervous. :p
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20131103 23:24:48< jamit> shadowm: What would make it less nerve-wracking? More bug numbers?
20131103 23:25:41< shadowm> That'd be my fear, actually.
20131103 23:26:02< shadowm> New bugs in the future.
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 04 00:00:17 2013