--- Log opened Thu Nov 14 00:00:51 2013
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20131114 00:29:44< shadowm> gfgtdf: If you want to reach all developers, the forums isn't ideal for that.
20131114 00:29:52< shadowm> *aren't
20131114 00:30:23< gfgtdf> shadowm: from my experience irc ist ideal neigher.
20131114 00:30:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: so what should i do ?
20131114 00:30:51< shadowm> Post to the developers' mailing list.
20131114 00:31:33< shadowm> And subscribe to it if you aren't already.
20131114 00:32:10< gfgtdf> shadowm: https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev/  here?
20131114 00:32:17< shadowm> Yes.
20131114 00:32:29< gfgtdf> hm ok
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20131114 01:28:24< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen jamit
20131114 01:28:25< wesbot> gfgtdf: The person with the nick jamit last spoke 2d 22h ago.  2d 20h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
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20131114 01:43:04< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 95084c98641e / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/12_Giving_Some_Back.cfg: SotBE S12: make second enemy leader passive as well http://git.io/i-lQuA
20131114 01:43:04< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 36be9123fbd0 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/12_Giving_Some_Back.cfg: SotBE S12: combine [kill] tags http://git.io/KmZhwA
20131114 01:43:04< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 14b722c342aa / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/maps/14_Back_Home.map: SotBE S14: change Grüü's castle location from mountains to hills http://git.io/XbePXw
20131114 01:43:04< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master d48b7454c164 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE S14: we do not need identical objectives twice http://git.io/0eJBcA
20131114 01:43:05< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 6d6d152cc0bc / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE S14: remove trolls from Kapou'e's recruit list http://git.io/ukdW4g
20131114 01:43:07< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 8c31b54aab13 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE S14: simplify WML turning trolls back over to Kapou'e's side http://git.io/3pX_5Q
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20131114 01:49:20< shadowm> Posting Guidelines point 1a says "write clearly".
20131114 01:49:29< shadowm> It'd be a shame if a developer went around doing the opposite of that.
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20131114 02:07:49< gfgtdf> i corrected some parts of them but i forgot to confirm, i correctes some of them again.
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20131114 03:00:24< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master dcd4b1906598 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE S14: move images in most messages to the right http://git.io/5noUJQ
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20131114 04:23:00< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master baedff44962f / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/15_Civil_War.cfg: SotBE S15: clarify objectives http://git.io/cigfCg
20131114 04:23:02< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 4b92319f70ee / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/15_Civil_War.cfg: SotBE S15: fix a typo in a comment http://git.io/bJJckA
20131114 04:23:04< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9ed51fd94ee9 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/15_Civil_War.cfg: SotBE S15: simplify two filters http://git.io/RWhkIA
20131114 04:23:06< irker942> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 8292a0abe82c / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/15_Civil_War.cfg: SotBE S15: move images in two messages to the right http://git.io/rUT0MQ
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20131114 11:24:57< irker942> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 4f405f7c536a / src/unit_animation.cpp: Allowed customization of healing_sound and healed_sound in unit types http://git.io/3Xaalw
20131114 11:25:00< irker942> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 12a8a0a00f16 / changelog: Updated changelog http://git.io/zhd2Qg
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20131114 11:34:03< irker942> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 013796a8d962 / src/unit_animation.cpp: Returned the default sound to the healed_anim, to restore healed sounds outside  http://git.io/AEenQg
20131114 11:35:49< irker942> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 796c5d1765f5 / src/unit_animation.cpp: small correction http://git.io/GHSjWQ
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20131114 14:38:09< irker572> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:1.10 29812ee70992 / SConstruct: Don't depend on boost::thread when not using libANA http://git.io/stTddQ
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20131114 14:57:38< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#963 (1.10 - 29812ee : Alexander van Gessel): The build was broken.
20131114 14:57:38< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/13971765
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20131114 14:59:36< AI0867> weird
20131114 14:59:41< AI0867> that *fixed* the build for me...
20131114 15:05:28< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master fa1fd7484548 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/16_The_Coward.cfg: SotBE S16: remove central area avoidence by AI http://git.io/hS3Hjg
20131114 15:05:30< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 73534d0b4ea5 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/16_The_Coward.cfg: SotBE S16: fix recalling of backup units for Jetto and Inarix http://git.io/dah7Zw
20131114 15:05:32< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master f1bd037b26e4 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/16_The_Coward.cfg: SotBE S16: move images in some messages to the right http://git.io/f8bw4Q
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20131114 16:00:03< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 25ffddee9e6d / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/16_The_Coward.cfg: SotBE S16: remove objectives that do not apply http://git.io/ekZsew
20131114 16:00:05< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master e5905f05eebe / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/17_The_Human_Attack.cfg: SotBE S17: put repetitive human reinforcement code into a macro http://git.io/4FNFTw
20131114 16:00:07< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 954a0d9dd590 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/17_The_Human_Attack.cfg: SotBE S17: remove commented out code http://git.io/ZVjhJg
20131114 16:00:10< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master baca881d25df / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/17_The_Human_Attack.cfg: SotBE S17: move images in some messages to the right http://git.io/xTMHvQ
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20131114 16:55:12< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master a3d4ef6494a6 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: fix coordinates of fake unit move http://git.io/YC-Zbg
20131114 16:55:14< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master b992e92b74a4 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: make Shan Taum's move contiguous http://git.io/kNvM0Q
20131114 16:55:16< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 37517f03beb4 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: use simpler and more robust check for afternoon time http://git.io/TtmSQg
20131114 16:55:18< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master c3bcb6f68718 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: make Shan Taum death dialog work even if ... http://git.io/CwgsSg
20131114 16:55:20< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 70754c277bb8 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: move images in some messages to the right http://git.io/17zV1g
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20131114 17:36:50< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 683ef52558f8 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/18_Northern_Alliance.cfg: SotBE S18: make Howgarth's death result in defeat http://git.io/_M5-ew
20131114 17:36:52< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master e2d14ff3d5ef / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/ (8 files): SotBE S12-19: remove unnecessary keys from [side] tags http://git.io/xpyEHQ
20131114 17:36:54< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master f727785e6e85 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/ai/ca_transport.lua: SotBE transport AI code: replace tabs by spaces http://git.io/FVpPrg
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20131114 17:53:11< fabi> Hello
20131114 17:53:49< fabi> I suggest the convention to let virtual base terrains be represented by a single character.
20131114 17:55:28 * zookeeper shrugs
20131114 17:56:11< zookeeper> i don't see why not, if there's a suitable character for each
20131114 17:58:37< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 7d378fabde3d / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/10_Saving_Inarix.cfg: SotBE S10: fix placement of quotes http://git.io/oIhjsQ
20131114 17:58:39< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 1e7e791eb59c / data/multiplayer/eras.cfg: MP eras file: Fix indenting http://git.io/ffS3Tg
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20131114 18:31:44< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master acc32219c619 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/09_Shan_Taum_the_Smug.cfg: SotBE S9: move images in some messages to the right http://git.io/-k6Ynw
20131114 18:31:46< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 86624051d2aa / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/06_Black_Flag.cfg: SotBE S6: move image in a message to the right http://git.io/l0xCmw
20131114 18:31:48< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 0859124926eb / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/12_Giving_Some_Back.cfg: SotBE S12: move image in a message to the right http://git.io/X6PfhQ
20131114 18:31:50< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9d6331ac19e2 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/13_The_Dwarvish_Stand.cfg: SotBE S13: move images in two messages to the right http://git.io/xBobdw
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20131114 18:54:42< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9976eac873d1 / data/ai/ (44 files in 2 dirs): Micro AI CA files: replace tabs by spaces http://git.io/n9R80Q
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20131114 19:09:24< mattsc> wmllint spellcheck question: in my add-on, adding 'wmllint: global spellings' works for adding spelling exceptions, but 'wmllint:directory spelling' (which I think is what I should use) does not.
20131114 19:09:25< mattsc> I don't know python very much at all, but it looks to me like only the globally declared words are taken into account at the end of the wmllint script:
20131114 19:09:31< mattsc> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/data/tools/wmllint#L2718
20131114 19:10:25< mattsc> s/'wmllint:directory spelling'/'wmllint: directory spellings'  [sigh]
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20131114 19:56:04< fabi_> zookeeper: There is for most. I try my best :-)
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20131114 20:45:33< irker572> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 03718d5c9cdc / changelog: Update changelog with bug #20124 fix http://git.io/LSMt7Q
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20131114 21:47:29< shadowm> gfgtdf: You haven't posted in the mailing list yet.
20131114 21:51:25< shadowm> fabi_: I don't see why change what we have already regarding terrain archetype ids.
20131114 21:52:10< shadowm> Every little naming change like that impacts UMC greatly and in a rather messy way, which is why stuff like the id/name transition for attacks hasn't been done.
20131114 21:52:21< gfgtdf> shadowm: you mean the random issue? 
20131114 21:53:39< shadowm> gfgtdf: I don't think I could possibly mean anything else.
20131114 21:54:07< shadowm> Or did you have some other thread I missed in which you intended to reach other developers?
20131114 21:54:15< fabi_> What kind of impact do you fear?
20131114 21:54:42< shadowm> fabi_: The kind where we end up with broken terrains.
20131114 21:54:46< gfgtdf> shadowm: during the discussion in the thread the plan changed and i came to the conlusion that i have to fix  http://gna.org/bugs/?20871 before doing something  about the random thing.
20131114 21:55:08< gfgtdf> s/conlusion/conclusion
20131114 21:55:23< shadowm> Sure you could alias Gt to G or something like that as a transitional measure, but is it really a necessary change to begin with? (The "don't fix what isn't broken" principle.)
20131114 21:55:36< fabi_> broken terrains?
20131114 21:56:09< gfgtdf> shadowm: which i think is not trivial, so it will take some time.
20131114 21:56:15< shadowm> fabi_: Yes, broken terrains.
20131114 22:00:22< fabi_> In which scenario do we have broken terrains?
20131114 22:01:10< shadowm> At this point I can only assume you don't even know what I'm talking about or I interpreted your vague suggestion earlier incorrectly.
20131114 22:01:28< fabi_> Yes, I do not know what you are talking about.
20131114 22:01:39< shadowm> 14:53:47 <fabi> I suggest the convention to let virtual base terrains be represented by a single character.
20131114 22:01:45< shadowm> I am talking about that.
20131114 22:01:52< fabi_> Ah yes. The new ones.
20131114 22:02:00< shadowm> What new ones?
20131114 22:02:36< fabi_> If you have a look at the terrain definitions, there are some virtual base terrains.
20131114 22:02:45< fabi_> Since some time.
20131114 22:02:48< shadowm> Terrain archetypes, yes, I am familiarized with them.
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20131114 22:02:56< shadowm> Gt, Qt, Xt, and so on.
20131114 22:03:06< fabi_> But not for every of the base terrains.
20131114 22:03:35< gfgtdf_> shadowm: do ou know the difference between [turn][command][speak] and [message]  for the mp ingame chat ? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/MultiplayerServerWML
20131114 22:03:40< shadowm> Okay, so why do we need more?
20131114 22:03:41< gfgtdf_> s/ou/you
20131114 22:04:04< shadowm> gfgtdf_: I don't know the wesnothd protocol at all.
20131114 22:04:38< fabi_> The virtual base terrains do perfectly fine as the parent topics in the help browser.
20131114 22:04:39< gfgtdf_> shadowm: you know someonewho is an expert in wesnothd protocol ?
20131114 22:04:51< shadowm> gfgtdf_: Not really, I don't think we have any such.
20131114 22:04:59< shadowm> Nowadays.
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20131114 22:05:17< shadowm> fabi_: Ohhh, that.
20131114 22:05:24< shadowm> Okay, so why not stick to the *t convention then?
20131114 22:05:32< gfgtdf> do we have an expert for replays ?
20131114 22:06:25< shadowm> gfgtdf: We do not have any officially appointed experts on anything, really, which is why communication through bug reports, IRC and the mailing list is necessary when trying to deal with stuff.
20131114 22:06:59< shadowm> Looking at the commit logs for a given file may help, but the committers don't always do the full research on the code unit they are changing.
20131114 22:07:52< fabi_> shadowm: Well, I thought representing them with a single character makes their nature as base terrains more explicit.
20131114 22:10:30< fabi_> But this is not really an importing point for me. If you feel better with the t convention it shall be it.
20131114 22:10:56< fabi_> Still I wonder what kind of broken terrain might occur?
20131114 22:11:09< bumbadadabum> fabi_: Everything using it will be broken
20131114 22:11:31< bumbadadabum> and that's going to be a whole lot of UMC
20131114 22:11:45< fabi_> A lot of UMC us single letter terrains?
20131114 22:12:14< fabi_> So the problem is name collision?
20131114 22:12:24< fabi_> s/us/is
20131114 22:12:31< bumbadadabum> well, you're renaming a terrain, right?
20131114 22:12:37< bumbadadabum> (or am I reading this all wrong)
20131114 22:14:15< fabi_> Well, only virtual terrains. Those are not used in maps.
20131114 22:14:26< bumbadadabum> oh ok
20131114 22:14:33< bumbadadabum> that would work then, wouldn't it?
20131114 22:15:13< fabi_> I guess. The only problem are UMC which define a new terrain with the same character.
20131114 22:15:44< fabi_> Maybe the *t convention shadowm mentioned is doing a better job there. But I don't really know.
20131114 22:15:57< bumbadadabum> As long as the character it uses isn't Y or Z it's fine
20131114 22:16:11< bumbadadabum> I mean, you can also call your UMC terrain *t
20131114 22:16:24< fabi_> Y and Z have a special meaning?
20131114 22:16:33< bumbadadabum> they're intended for UMC
20131114 22:16:34< bumbadadabum> IIRC
20131114 22:19:42< zookeeper> i don't know if the proposed change being discussed would leak to anything breaking, but just in case i'd like to once again re-iterate the principle of "don't break anything because of conventions and consistency, only break if you absolutely need to"
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20131114 22:21:02< fabi_> Well, since we already have some *t base terrains I guess this "namespace" is already claimed and thus can be used.
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20131114 22:24:58< fabi_> Not introducing new terrains is a little odd.
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20131114 22:36:24< fabi_> Is there a maximum Limit for terrain strings?
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20131114 23:28:25< shadowm> fabi_: I believe it's four characters for either base or overlay, but you'd need to check the implementation code to be sure.
20131114 23:32:20< shadowm> Ivanovic: I won't be available this Saturday for the announcement, but I should be available either during Sunday evening or Monday morning CLST.
20131114 23:33:29< shadowm> Or possibly Sunday around midnight. Either way I don't think this should be a problem since there's always a window of time post-tagging for packagers to report critical issues and mirror propagation to take place.
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20131114 23:35:19< shadowm> I really need an email client that doesn't suck (read: isn't kmail or thunderbird). Gmail's web interface is crap and not very adequate for reading threaded conversations.
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20131114 23:37:07< shadowm> Also ideally it should be one that doesn't need to take up space from my task panel all the time and can deliver desktop notifications on new incoming mail. Bonus points if it can save messages to disk to minimize network traffic when reading or searching through them.
20131114 23:46:07< AI0867> fabi_, shadowm: yes, 4 characters for either part
20131114 23:46:17< fabi_> Thanks
20131114 23:47:53< AI0867> gfgtdf: I've reverse-engineered it to a limited degree, for https://github.com/AI0867/wesnet-tools
20131114 23:48:40< gfgtdf> AI0867: the network protocol ?
20131114 23:49:26< AI0867> yes
20131114 23:50:00< AI0867> that repository contains various, mostly small scripts that speak to wesnothd, campaignd, or pretend to be those
20131114 23:57:30< gfgtdf> AI0867: ok, think i have no questions right now, my plan was to fix http://gna.org/bugs/?20871
20131114 23:57:32< gfgtdf> AI0867: currently  when someone uses mp_sync::user_choice during an attack event it will fail because the clients who makes the decision normaly hasn't made the decision yet.
20131114 23:57:33< gfgtdf> AI0867: My plan was to change the client into waiting for the user choice result from network in that case.
20131114 23:57:35< gfgtdf> AI0867: this is not trivial especialy because when we expect a user coice we are normaly in the middle of an event and cannot handle player left events proably.
20131114 23:57:36< gfgtdf> AI0867: so we need to store them and handle them after the event has been executed. Thats what im thinking right now.
--- Log closed Fri Nov 15 00:00:14 2013