--- Log opened Sat Nov 16 00:00:54 2013
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20131116 02:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 194 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131116 04:00:02< irker907> wesnoth: Alarantalara wesnoth-old:master e17213a48ca6 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/ (scenarios/12_The_Final_Confrontation.cfg utils/deaths.cfg): Change variable to #ifdef http://git.io/qWCRBA
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20131116 04:16:02< AI0867> I'd like to get the [scroll_to_unit] side filter thing in, but it has some issues, it's late, and I'm tired
20131116 04:16:09< AI0867> and unfortunately I won't have time tomorrow
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20131116 05:40:43< irker907> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 964973d56720 / changelog data/campaigns/Two_Brothers/_main.cfg: AToTB: crop campaign icon http://git.io/dOK41Q
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20131116 07:02:29< irker907> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master a39e6b702ede / src/unit_types.cpp: Clean up base_ids from unit types before sending them to units. http://git.io/FtLubQ
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20131116 08:18:21< Ivanovic> AI0867, Chusslove, elias, fabi, Jetrel, loonycyborg, Rhonda, everyone else who cares: ready for 1.11.7?
20131116 08:22:13< vultraz> sure
20131116 08:27:15< AI0867> Ivanovic: I'd like to add something, but I don't have the time, and it's not even close to important enough to delay 24 hours
20131116 08:27:32< Ivanovic> especially since it would not be 24h
20131116 08:27:40< Ivanovic> in 24h i am on a business travel to the UK
20131116 08:27:44< AI0867> yeah
20131116 08:27:54< Ivanovic> so in fact it would delay until next week sunday
20131116 08:28:11< AI0867> so go ahead and release, I'll take some more time to design and debug this deceptively simple feature
20131116 08:32:23< irker907> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 4993340c2974 / / (1392 files in 52 dirs): pot-update and regenerated doc files (preparing for 1.11.7) http://git.io/JM28AA
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20131116 08:32:31< Ivanovic> fabi: for the clicking feature: i am a little concerned for platforms which don't use a mouse with two buttons all the time
20131116 08:32:42< Ivanovic> e.g. when using the touchscreen on a pandora or a single button mouse on the mac
20131116 08:33:33< Ivanovic> fabi: so I fear that it should be an option at least in the beginning
20131116 08:33:40< Ivanovic> maybe defaulting to the new behavior
20131116 08:36:30< AI0867> can someone with a mac tell us how modern RTSes work on it?
20131116 08:36:55< AI0867> it's very easy to right-mouse click on them, but do the games require that?
20131116 08:37:18< AI0867> touchscreen sounds like it'll be the only issue to me
20131116 08:42:13< Ivanovic> there are also other controls on the pandora besides the touchscreen, but i heard from some players that they hold the pandora with the left hand to use the d-pad (arrow keys) to move the map around
20131116 08:42:21< Ivanovic> and then use the pen on the screen for movement
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20131116 08:43:03< Melkon> hello
20131116 08:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 192 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20131116 08:45:44-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.11.7, using commit 499334 | current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 192 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20131116 08:47:18< irker907> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 6e73f02090ac / changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h: version bump to 1.11.7 http://git.io/M-kqnw
20131116 08:47:32-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.11.7, using commit 6e73f02 | current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 192 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131116 09:14:25< irker907> wesnoth: ivanovic wesnoth-old: 6e73f02090ac tagged as 1.11.7
20131116 09:15:15< Ivanovic> AI0867, elias: the script for creating the credits wiki dump seems to be broken...
20131116 09:15:20< Ivanovic> can you have a look at this one?
20131116 09:15:49< Ivanovic> http://pastebin.com/ttKR6QZp
20131116 09:17:09< Ivanovic> loonycyborg, Rhonda: 1.11.7 is tagged
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20131116 09:26:58< Ivanovic> AI0867, elias: wmlscope seems to be broken when using python 3.2: http://pastebin.com/zdeeDway
20131116 09:35:04< thunderstruck> Ivanovic: Hello. Is it too late to update RELEASE_NOTES?
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20131116 09:40:13< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#994 (1.11.7 - 6e73f02 : Nils Kneuper): The build passed.
20131116 09:40:13< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/14060025
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20131116 10:01:31< Melkon> hmm, i try to compile wesnoth first time, but i got some compile error from function_template.hpp
20131116 10:07:39< Soliton> naturally you need to provide at least that error if you want to enable somebody to help you.
20131116 10:09:06< Melkon> yeah i know sorry just i started to search for my mistake
20131116 10:09:10< Melkon> i guess i figured it out
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20131116 10:54:50-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.7 tagged, shadowm will announce "soon" | current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 192 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20131116 10:55:15< Ivanovic> thunderstruck: for the release tarball: yes, it is too late
20131116 10:55:24< Ivanovic> for inclusion in the release announcement text: probably not
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20131116 11:31:27< Melkon> i compiled the project, seems like everything was okay, but i got that message when i try to run it in debug mode: Debugging information for 'wesnoth.exe' cannot be found or does not match. Binary was not built with debug information.
20131116 11:31:36< Melkon> and if i try to run: The program '[7128] wesnoth.exe: Native' has exited with code 1 (0x1).
20131116 11:31:48< Melkon> has someone any idea what did i wrong?
20131116 11:32:31< Melkon> when i compile the solution: ========== Build: 4 succeeded, 0 failed, 0 up-to-date, 1 skipped ==========
20131116 11:32:58< Melkon> i dunno why VS10 skipped something, could it be the problem or is it normal?
20131116 11:33:39< Melkon> schema generator was skipped
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20131116 12:15:41< gfgtdf> Melkon: you don't need "schema generator".
20131116 12:47:43< Melkon> okay, thanks
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20131116 12:53:25< gfgtdf> Melkon: if wesnoth.exe doesn't start in debugger, it can be due to wrong arguments, check weather "Working Directory" and "Command Arguments" are set correct in the the build options.
20131116 13:01:02< Melkon> well, it found the exe so i guess working directory is fine. Command arguments is empty
20131116 13:01:13< Melkon> what should i write here?
20131116 13:01:53< gfgtdf> what is teh contetnt of "working directory" ?
20131116 13:01:58< gfgtdf> the content
20131116 13:02:17< Melkon> $(ProjectDir)
20131116 13:03:11< gfgtdf> try putting "$(SolutionDir)\..\..\"  or "$(SolutionDir)..\..\" instead
20131116 13:03:53< gfgtdf> the later "$(SolutionDir)..\..\"
20131116 13:04:50< Melkon> whao
20131116 13:04:52< Melkon> it works
20131116 13:04:55< Melkon> thank you very much! :)
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20131116 13:19:03< elias> Ivanovic: Python2 and Python3 are two different languages
20131116 13:19:10< elias> a script written for python2 can never work with python3
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20131116 14:08:32< Ivanovic> elias: then the interpreter line should probably read python-2 and not just python, right?
20131116 14:08:57< elias> no
20131116 14:09:12< elias> pythom is always 2
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20131116 14:09:35< elias> (except on arch)
20131116 14:12:34< jamit> gfgtdf: You were looking for me?
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20131116 14:13:43< Ivanovic> elias: and except on gentoo, here my default python env is python 3.2
20131116 14:13:59< Ivanovic> elias: so it *would* be safer to name it python2
20131116 14:15:02< jamit> Why be safe, when you can assume?
20131116 14:15:30< jamit> :)
20131116 14:15:35< gfgtdf> jamit: uhm i don't remember why right now.
20131116 14:15:39< loonycyborg> It's still python2 here by default, gentoo too
20131116 14:16:13< jamit> gfgtdf: In that case, I have two related questions for you.
20131116 14:16:27< gfgtdf> hm ok, realted to what ?
20131116 14:17:23< jamit> gfgtdf: How can the code change a hotkey? I ask becayse before you added the hotkeys to the popup menu, WML authors could change a menu item's description. Now they can only do that if they explicitly forbid using a hotkey.
20131116 14:17:58< jamit> gfgtdf: Also, how can the code remove a hotkey? I don't see a hook in the code the removes a menu item.
20131116 14:18:07< jamit> gfgtdf: related to each other.
20131116 14:18:41< jamit> s/becayse/because/
20131116 14:18:57< gfgtdf> i take a look
20131116 14:19:19< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: still, if we know that the language is "python2" then IMO it should be named this way in the script, too
20131116 14:19:40< loonycyborg> I guess, if it works
20131116 14:21:30< jamit> Ivanovic: One criterion you might want to look at: How many people might be confused by seeing "python" versus how many might be confused by "python2".
20131116 14:21:52< Ivanovic> jamit: why would people be confused if they see python2 called?
20131116 14:22:03< loonycyborg> Do all systems have binary python2? Even those old ones that have only python2.x?
20131116 14:22:05< jamit> Ivanovic: Exactly. ;)
20131116 14:24:14< jamit> Ivanovic: If it's a case of possibly confusing some with "python" versus not confusing any with "python2", I think the choice should be easy.
20131116 14:24:49< jamit> But I'm just peanut gallery.
20131116 14:24:53< loonycyborg> Ivanovic: 1.11.7 windows release is uploaded
20131116 14:25:02< Ivanovic> loonycyborg: cool!
20131116 14:25:12< Ivanovic> hmm, the pandora has "python" and "python2.6"
20131116 14:25:17< Ivanovic> but no plan python2
20131116 14:25:23< Ivanovic> no idea how debian handles it
20131116 14:25:58< Ivanovic> Rhonda: how does debian handle python?
20131116 14:26:06< Ivanovic> the python vs python2 vs python3 stuff
20131116 14:27:24< gfgtdf> jamit: ok i'll fix the "unable to change description" issue  by changing https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/hotkeys.cpp#L736 into changing the hotkeys description instead of doing nothing.
20131116 14:27:42< gfgtdf> i'll think about the "unable to remove hotkey" issue now.
20131116 14:28:53< jamit> gfgtdf: And what if the author changed the default hotkey?
20131116 14:29:58< gfgtdf> jamit: that will be ignored because the default hotkey only applied the first time it is set.
20131116 14:30:44< jamit> gfgtdf: That is inconsistent with how the rest of [set_menu_item] works.
20131116 14:31:00< Ivanovic> Soliton: can you "soon" change the dev mp server to not accept previous versions?
20131116 14:31:09< jamit> gfgtdf: It is also not mentioned in the relevant wiki article.
20131116 14:31:17< Ivanovic> reason is that they are incompatible at least for MP campaigns
20131116 14:32:21< jamit> gfgtdf: Oh never mind, I see it in the wiki article: "if the user has no hotkey assigned to this yet". It's still inconsistent with the rest of the tag though.
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20131116 14:38:04< gfgtdf> jamit: well the intention of the whole patch was more for the players to be able to assign hotkeys to wmlmenuhotkeys, the [default_hotkey] was only of second importance when i wrote it. And i still think that issue is not that bad because the players can always reassign the hotkeys.
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20131116 14:46:00< fabi> hi Ivanovic
20131116 14:46:05< Ivanovic> hi fabi
20131116 14:46:40< fabi> I read something about the mouse button thing.
20131116 14:47:35< fabi> Ah yes.
20131116 14:48:12< Soliton> Ivanovic: sure. major OSes have a build?
20131116 14:48:24< Ivanovic> Soliton: windows build is done, waiting for OSX
20131116 14:48:29< Ivanovic> maybe switch some time tomorrow
20131116 14:48:42< Soliton> ok.
20131116 14:49:29< fabi> Ivanovic: Apple still sells its machines with the single button mouse? Or is this about older systems?
20131116 14:49:46< Ivanovic> fabi: the touchpads on all macbooks is still single button
20131116 14:50:45< Ivanovic> http://store.apple.com/us/mac/mac-accessories/mice-keyboards#!
20131116 14:50:56< fabi> But it works somehow, I mean we already use the right mouse button, just not to move/attack.
20131116 14:52:27< jamit> Why force a configuration? If the user could assign controls to the mouse functions, then that could potentially make the game more usable in all environments.
20131116 14:53:15< jamit> I wouldn't want to do a GUI for the configuration, but the backend support looks straight-forward, although not a short project.
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20131116 14:56:59< irker681> wesnoth: Alarantalara wesnoth-old:master 256de7b1d341 / projectfiles/Xcode/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Update Xcode project for 1.11.7 http://git.io/w3bAKg
20131116 14:57:59< fabi> jamit: The input methods could be handled like we currently do with the hotkeys. I have already opened the extra mouse buttons to be hotkey assignable. Doing so for the standard ones should no big deal and the interface is already ready to support it.
20131116 15:00:34< jamit> I could add the backend support in 1.13. I think it's too short a timeframe to try for 1.12.
20131116 15:01:08< jamit> I might need to be reminded, though.
20131116 15:01:19< fabi> jamit: The only problem I see are useless configurations. I mean, If the user assigns the supposed new behavior to the left button and keeps the old right one he will end up with no move/attack function. 
20131116 15:01:56< jamit> fabi: ? What do you mean "supposed new behavior"?
20131116 15:02:23< fabi> The context is my mail to the dev-list.
20131116 15:02:46< fabi> proposed new behavior
20131116 15:03:15< jamit> As I recall, the proposed new behavior is a new configuration of mouse controls.
20131116 15:04:12< jamit> For what I have in mind, there would be no "supposed new behavior" to assign to a button.
20131116 15:04:54< fabi> Please tell me more.
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20131116 15:05:22< vultraz> I support fabi's new configuration suggestion
20131116 15:05:45< jamit> I was thinking the user would get a list of things that can be done: select a unit, deselect a unit, select a hex, deselect a hex, move/attack, context menu, and any other functions I am forgetting at the moment.
20131116 15:06:15< jamit> For each of those options, the user could assign a mouse button, tap, hotkey, whatever.
20131116 15:06:45< jamit> The user would only end up with no move/attack function if that action's entry was cleared.
20131116 15:07:21< jamit> Oh, unlike the current hotkeys, things assigned to the mouse actions could be assigned to multiple actions.
20131116 15:07:49< fabi> Wait
20131116 15:08:01< fabi> current hotkeys already support it
20131116 15:08:32< jamit> So for your proposed configuration, the user would assign the left mouse button to select hex and deselect hex. The right mouse button to move/attack and context menu. Nothing to select unit and delesect unit.
20131116 15:08:34< gfgtdf> jamit: ok i have question: in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/game_events/wmi_container.cpp#L73  it seems like you remove the event by id, where do you set the id in the  [command] you pass in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/game_events/wmi_container.cpp#L109?
20131116 15:08:55< gfgtdf> ok found out
20131116 15:09:23< gfgtdf> i gorgot that attibute_values can be passed by reference
20131116 15:10:32< jamit> gfgtdf: technically, it's not me doing that yet. So far, I've just been copying that code around. ;)
20131116 15:11:00< jamit> gfgtdf: In fact, the event id is what I am looking at changing now.
20131116 15:11:44< gfgtdf> jamit: ye that code is always in motion  :s
20131116 15:12:10< fabi> jamit: I have thought about such a solution already. The problem I see is that just combining different functions to one mouse button arbitrary is a very difficult thing to get working.
20131116 15:13:21< jamit> fabi: It shouldn't be, if you have a good, logical order for going through the actions. And the functions involved would have to communicate back whether or not their functionality makes sense.
20131116 15:14:24< jamit> So, for example, the function that selects a hex would return "no can do" if the hex in question has a unit. Then the caller would move on to the next function in the list.
20131116 15:15:11< fabi> hmmm, that sounds to good to be true :-)
20131116 15:15:16< jamit> If the hex in question has no unit, the function that selects a hex would return "I got it", and the caller would exit, not trying more functions.
20131116 15:15:29< gfgtdf> jamit: and for the removement of hotkeys: they arent  removed in [clear_menu_item] currently and that should be fixed but i suppose the players won't notice because nothing should happen when the underlaying event is removed.
20131116 15:16:05< fabi> Alarantalara: Hello, do you have a few minutes?
20131116 15:16:42< jamit> gfgtdf: The players won't notice the ability to assign hotkeys to a menu item that has been removed?
20131116 15:16:58< Alarantalara> I suppose so
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20131116 15:17:32< fabi> Alarantalara: Cool, tx. Have you seen any of the discussion around the changes to terrain.cfg?
20131116 15:17:40< gfgtdf> jamit: if teh ydont look in teh peferences then they dont and teh hotkeys are removes if you end/load/restart a scenario.
20131116 15:17:50< Alarantalara> I haven't
20131116 15:18:02< gfgtdf> if they dont look in the peferences then they don't. And the hotkeys are removed if you end/load/restart a scenario.
20131116 15:18:10< fabi> Okay, let me try to summarize it in a compact way.
20131116 15:19:02< jamit> gfgtdf: Big "if". If players don't look in the preferences, then isn't there no point in letting users assign hotkeys to menu items?
20131116 15:19:10< fabi> I am working on an auto-generated terrain section in the help browser.
20131116 15:19:55< gfgtdf> my point was, that only for the time from [clear_menu_item] until the the next time the scenario is relaoded/ended 
20131116 15:19:59< fabi> Alarantalara: For that purpose [terrain_type] got a hide_help=no attribute.
20131116 15:20:43< jamit> gfgtdf: Why is that time insignificant?
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20131116 15:21:16< fabi> Alarantalara: I have added a virtual parent for every of the base terrains.
20131116 15:21:36< fabi> And removed the mixed forest terrains.
20131116 15:22:01< jamit> gfgtdf: For example, a menu item from a previous scenario might be removed in a prestart event. That's the entire scenario where you are assuming players will not try to set hotkeys.
20131116 15:22:35< fabi> Alarantalara: I remember you suggested some of this changes yourself some time ago.
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20131116 15:23:31< gfgtdf> i have not said that it doesn't need to be fixed, i just said that it isn't that painful, and has no effect on the actual game.
20131116 15:25:20< jamit> gfgtdf: Actually, you said that players won't notice, which is a more stringent criterion than "not painful", which is itself more stringent than "not that painful".
20131116 15:25:37< Alarantalara> fabi: I don't see these changes you're mentioning
20131116 15:26:41< gfgtdf> hm ok, maybe i said too much.
20131116 15:27:42< jamit> gfgtdf: I'll agree that the circumstances are unusual.
20131116 15:28:27< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master bddaa3ddb3a1 / src/help.cpp: Show weapon range in the unit help browser. http://git.io/QdESmg
20131116 15:28:29< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 625a163ef4df / src/editor/palette/unit_palette.cpp: Better default selected item handling in the unit palette. http://git.io/1Woq7Q
20131116 15:28:31< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 3ccfab9a2cbd / src/help.cpp: Show multihex range of weapons in the help browser. http://git.io/1rCkDQ
20131116 15:28:33< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master b75b810682ad / src/ (unit_types.cpp unit_types.hpp): Support for overwritting hp_bar_scalling and xp_bar_scalling. http://git.io/eN5jMg
20131116 15:28:35< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 216308787b88 / src/ (unit_types.cpp unit_types.hpp): Store and getter for the do_not_list attribute. http://git.io/sKbrpA
20131116 15:28:37< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 752850838439 / src/editor/map/map_context.cpp: Save extra map configs with the no_leader=yes attribute. http://git.io/mPeyWg
20131116 15:28:39< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 71352e1426cc / src/editor/palette/editor_palettes.cpp: Use color shifted icon for palette groups if no active icon available. http://git.io/4cq4vw
20131116 15:28:41< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 36ceb3e643bc / src/gui/dialogs/unit_create.cpp: Do not list "do_not_list" units in the debug create dialog. http://git.io/oyLj_g
20131116 15:28:43< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master e8e9412d4d9c / src/ (unit.cpp unit.hpp): Support for overwritting hp_bar_scaling and xp_bar_scaling. http://git.io/Z6whVw
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20131116 15:28:45< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 73843c9e51cb / data/core/_main.cfg: NO_TERRAIN preprocessor symbol to allow campaigns not loading core stuff http://git.io/Urc2CQ
20131116 15:28:47< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 16a00974c056 / src/config.cpp: Added a const qualifier. http://git.io/Of9hjA
20131116 15:28:49< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 21f17a1a7fa5 / data/core/help.cfg: Removed hardcoded terrain topics. http://git.io/yaMuWg
20131116 15:28:51< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 663bbe8002f4 / data/themes/default.cfg: Enable terrain description context menu entry. http://git.io/wVWGaQ
20131116 15:28:53< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master f45685087584 / data/core/terrain.cfg: Cleanups which prepare for autogenerated terrain help sections. http://git.io/TMZfBg
20131116 15:28:55< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 0a958b8455c4 / data/core/images/terrain/symbols/ (96 files): Copied terrain symbols to a more accesible place. http://git.io/gzPLeA
20131116 15:28:57< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 10854d4802c4 / data/core/terrain.cfg: Changed the strings of base terrains to fit the *t convention. http://git.io/YYHhWw
20131116 15:28:59< irker681> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master a561e1b3ed73 / src/ (12 files): Autogenerated terrain help sections. http://git.io/PRKcjg
20131116 15:29:07< fabi> Alarantalara: ^
20131116 15:29:40< jamit> gfgtdf: Still, it might be nice if extending functionality (adding hotkeys to WML menu items) did not reduce the cases where the functionality works. Particularly if a stable release is coming. ;)
20131116 15:30:13< gfgtdf> jamit: when is teh stable release coming ?
20131116 15:30:53< gfgtdf> s/teh/the
20131116 15:30:58< fabi> gfgtdf: Ivanovic send a mail to the list.
20131116 15:31:18< gfgtdf> are you talikng about 1.11.7 or 1.12 ?
20131116 15:31:22< gfgtdf> talking*
20131116 15:31:28< jamit> 1.12
20131116 15:32:00< gfgtdf> hm ok maybe its time to subscribe the list.
20131116 15:32:14< jamit> gfgtdf: https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-dev/2013-11/msg00004.html
20131116 15:32:50< gfgtdf> jamit: ty
20131116 15:35:24< jamit> gfgtdf: Yes, subscribing to the list is a good idea. In addition to these sorts of announcements, you might find that some people give advance warning there about major plans to rearrange source files, such as splitting game_events.cpp.
20131116 15:35:40< jamit> Just in case it would impact someone else's development....
20131116 15:41:35< Alarantalara> I'm suddenly very happy I switched internet providers. Wesnoth is uploading about 4x faster.
20131116 15:47:05< gfgtdf> can i make commits now or would that interfere with the 11.7 build ?
20131116 15:47:25< Alarantalara> Builds are made from tags, you can't interfere
20131116 15:48:03< gfgtdf> what are "tags" ?
20131116 15:49:01< Alarantalara> A mark saying that this commit in the repository is special
20131116 15:49:15< Alarantalara> Ivanovic uses them to mark the versions that get released
20131116 15:49:32< gfgtdf> so, i can commit without problems ?
20131116 15:49:47< Alarantalara> So while waiting for him to tag it may be good if you have incomplete stuff, once the tag is made, feel free to do anything
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20131116 15:50:14< gfgtdf> but i think the tag is already made ?
20131116 15:50:25< Alarantalara> Yes, several hours ago
20131116 15:51:02< loonycyborg> You can always commit.
20131116 15:51:30< loonycyborg> Even if you commit while ivanovic prepares a release the worst can happen that your commit won't be part of the release
20131116 15:53:44< loonycyborg> Also, there may be a period of feature freeze before next major release is done, but it's not the case currently
20131116 15:54:44< loonycyborg> When there will be feature freeze the channel topic will say so :P
20131116 15:55:11< loonycyborg> It doesn't happen often
20131116 16:00:33< Alarantalara> Right, I'm still thinking in svn terms where committing while the release was being prepared was inconvenient (though still managable).
20131116 16:02:56< Alarantalara> Speaking of releases, the OS X release is uploaded
20131116 16:05:38< Alarantalara> Ivanovic, shadowm: ^
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20131116 16:12:50< Alarantalara> fabi: I just found a serious problem with autogenerating terrain help. It's no longer available from the main screen because we don't load terrain until after a campaign is loaded (to avoid conflicts between UMC).
20131116 16:13:19< Ivanovic> Soliton: so the main binaries are there, feel free to switch the server
20131116 16:13:40< Ivanovic> that is: shadowm will probably announce once he is back in some 10h (guesstimate)
20131116 16:14:09< fabi> Alarantalara: The problem is not only a matter of when terrain WML is loaded. It is also a matter of having a game_map object. Only those know about terrains. No map no terrains.
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20131116 16:18:26< Ivanovic> shadowm: the downloads pages in the wiki are already updated
20131116 16:18:36< Ivanovic> what remains to be done is the forums post and the frontpage
20131116 16:18:39< irker681> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 7f86b055bb89 / src/hotkeys.cpp: replace old hotkey_command in add_wml_hotkey instead of doing nothing. http://git.io/vLUdpg
20131116 16:21:04< irker681> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth-old:master 6e7302d8023f / src/hotkeys.hpp: declare remove_wml_hotkey in hotkeys.hpp http://git.io/RV4-iA
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20131116 16:44:37< gfgtdf> jamit: i have changed the add_wml_hotkey as proposed.
20131116 16:46:26< mattsc> Alarantalara (or maybe Ivanovic): I'm confused.  I just downloaded 1.11.7 for OS X, but this commit is not in it:  https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/964973d567208c18e0d86ea5d4c5ad322ec7217a
20131116 16:47:13< mattsc> I haven't checked other commits, I just noticed this one because it is quite visible (and because I made it)
20131116 16:47:52< Alarantalara> Hmm, I may have synced to the wrong place :9
20131116 16:47:54< Alarantalara> :(
20131116 16:49:24< Alarantalara> I seem to make a lot more mistakes with git
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20131116 16:52:13< mattsc> Alarantalara: well, good that I was so impatient then, I guess.  :)
20131116 16:52:30< jamit> gfgtdf: OK. I'll hook in the menu item handling.
20131116 16:54:36< Ivanovic> mattsc: i am sure that commit is included in the tarball
20131116 16:56:01< mattsc> Ivanovic: okay, thanks  (it's not an important one by any means, but it is visible and it is mentioned in the changelog, so people might complain otherwise)
20131116 17:03:10< Crendgrim> what was the location of the bug tracker again?
20131116 17:03:40< Crendgrim> nevermind, the page just didn't load.
20131116 17:03:48< Alarantalara> mattsc: true, but if I synced to the wrong object, there may be more problems. I'll do it again
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20131116 18:42:18< gfgtdf> i sthere an ingame command to turn log information on i case i forgot to specify it at runtime ?
20131116 18:42:32< gfgtdf> s/i sthere/is there
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20131116 19:08:12< bumbadadabum> I just noticed wesnoth is in the recommended packages for linux mint
20131116 19:18:47< gfgtdf> I just noticed bug: when in mp a player leaves when he had to decide a unit advancement after an attack in a game with more than 2 clients and then another unit advances, the game can come out of sync, but im working on this.
20131116 19:20:08< Alarantalara> The map generator appears to be broken. Load HttT: Sceptre of Fire
20131116 19:20:19< gfgtdf> my plan was to make random decision if a player leaves when ha has to make a decision, any objections on that ?
20131116 19:20:45< gfgtdf> s/ha/he
20131116 19:21:08< bumbadadabum> why are bugs always discovered right after a version is tagged?
20131116 19:21:55< Alarantalara> Because that's when people download and try to play with it?
20131116 19:22:22< bumbadadabum> eh, perhaps
20131116 19:23:01< Crendgrim> gfgtdf: if a unit advances not on your turn, it used to automatically select the first option. I'm not sure if that got changed, but if it didn't it's probably good to mirror that behavior.
20131116 19:23:02< Alarantalara> and we don't have comprehensive tests that must be run before submitting, and...
20131116 19:23:39< gfgtdf> Crendgrim: no unit advanced on my oppenonets turn any my opponent decides to leave the game durign teh decision
20131116 19:23:57< bumbadadabum> Alarantalara: I have the same thing with my add-on often
20131116 19:24:09< bumbadadabum> when I play it before I want to release, I find no bugs
20131116 19:24:22< bumbadadabum> and when I play it after the release, I find a lot of bugs
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20131116 19:24:33< bumbadadabum> So even then...
20131116 19:24:37< bumbadadabum> I think it
20131116 19:24:39< gfgtdf> Crendgrim: no it think that didnt change
20131116 19:24:40< bumbadadabum> it's bad karma
20131116 19:25:19< Crendgrim> gfgtdf: in that case, it's probably good if both situations have the same behavior, just to keep things simple for the user.
20131116 19:25:54< gfgtdf> Crendgrim: ok sou you think taking teh firt is better tahn a random decision ?
20131116 19:26:13< gfgtdf> so you think taking the first option  is better than a random decision ?
20131116 19:26:32< Crendgrim> In my opinion, that's better, yes
20131116 19:26:44< gfgtdf> Crendgrim: ok
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20131116 20:43:59< Soliton> gfgtdf: the client taking over the side should make the advancement decision as usual. no need for an automatic decision.
20131116 20:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.7 tagged, shadowm will announce "soon" | current repo: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old (Please read the dev-ml for the latest status!) | 194 bugs, 345 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131116 20:54:27< gfgtdf> Soliton: my plan was to handle advancing decisiosn like other decision, and those normaly occur in the middle during an event execution, i think  it could be hard to take over a side in the middle during an event execution. 
20131116 20:57:24< Soliton> you seemed to imply just that. also clients can disconnect anytime so it is irrelevant whether they processed the event ot not if they cannot send the resulting commands out.
20131116 20:59:36< Soliton> i.e. there is the general issue of taking over a side that has pending advancements and currently they are not processed when taking over a side leading to weird behaviour and/or OOS.
20131116 21:01:38< gfgtdf> Soliton: my plan was to fix http://gna.org/bugs/?20871 by waiting for network data in case we requred a user decision from replay that doesnt exist.
20131116 21:02:53< gfgtdf> Soliton: and than means we can have a half-processed event while we wait for network data.
20131116 21:08:46< Soliton> that bug does not appear to have anything to do with leaving players.
20131116 21:12:29< gfgtdf> but it is still connected with that problem
20131116 21:14:29< Soliton> i don't see how.
20131116 21:16:10< gfgtdf> as i said above: after the fix, we can have a half-processed event that is already synced while we wait for network data
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20131116 21:26:15< Soliton> doesn't sound like a good fix but i don't really understand what you're talking about anyway.
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20131116 21:42:58< shadowm> fabi: Were you looking for me?
20131116 22:24:35< fabi> shadowm: yes
20131116 22:25:35< fabi> shadowm: I would like to ask what you think about replacing the left click drag and drop support (which is more or less useless, isn't it?) with a new fancy scrolling method?
20131116 22:26:10< shadowm> I don't know what the new fancy scrolling method would entail and I occasionally drag my units on the map, if that's what you are talking about.
20131116 22:29:17< fabi> When do you use dragging?
20131116 22:29:41< shadowm> Occasionally.
20131116 22:30:08< fabi> So no special reason or circumstance, just out of a mood?
20131116 22:30:28< shadowm> Essentially.
20131116 22:31:07< fabi> I see.
20131116 22:32:28< shadowm> I suspect touchscreen users might have more a reason to do so out of habit since that's kind of a thing touchscreen applications encourage.
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20131116 22:34:25< shadowm> It's just a suspicion, though, since I personally intend to avoid touchscreen devices and applications exclusively catering to them for as long as I draw breath.
20131116 22:35:46< fabi> Yeah, I am also not a friend of touchscreen devices.
20131116 22:37:56< shadowm> Is anyone involved with the MP campaigns support task(s) around? I'm curious about this statement in RELEASE_NOTES:
20131116 22:38:03< shadowm> "Finally, Legend of Wesmere campaign has been made available to play in multiplayer as a result of these changes."
20131116 22:38:29< shadowm> I'm pretty sure I've been hearing of MP LoW since 1.9.x.
20131116 22:39:04< shadowm> Hm, okay, so the 1.11.x wesnothd needs to be rebuilt, okay.
20131116 22:39:25< fabi> Yes, but I disabled it for the stable 1.10 because of lacking UI support.
20131116 22:39:50< fabi> So 1.12 will be the first stable with LoW MP build in.
20131116 22:40:44< fabi> The 1.9 solution was just tot hacky for my taste and cluttered the UI too much.
20131116 22:40:53< fabi> s/tot/too
20131116 22:41:42< fabi> zookeeper's new maps should also be mentioned in the release notes.
20131116 22:43:07< fabi> justinzane: Any news on the sdl2.0 front?
20131116 22:44:56< shadowm> zookeeper's new maps?
20131116 22:46:43< fabi> Yes
20131116 22:47:07< fabi> The background maps. Where you see the campaign's track.
20131116 22:47:51< shadowm> I don't know, that sounds more like a slowly progressing thing encompassing the entire branch's history.
20131116 22:48:41< shadowm> I'm not going to come up with new RELEASE_NOTES entries that aren't absolutely essential. Last time (1.11.6) it was kind of a special case because nobody added a single thing to that file and the announcement ended up being infuriatingly hollow and bland.
20131116 22:49:15< fabi> Well, I thought about the 1.12 release notes.
20131116 22:50:20< fabi> Ivanovic: Is there a way to contribute to the 1.12 release notes already?
20131116 22:50:38< shadowm> No, because we haven't created that branch in the resources repository.
20131116 22:51:02< shadowm> Resources repository that doesn't exist yet either since I haven't worked on slicing that portion from the main repository.
20131116 22:51:14< fabi> Maybe a simple forum thread to collect some of the stuff already?
20131116 22:51:19< shadowm> Oh wait, the branch release announcements are in the website repository.
20131116 22:51:41< shadowm> Eh, why are you worrying about this after essentially saying in the ML that we shouldn't have 1.12 next year? :/
20131116 22:52:16< fabi> No, you got my mail wrong.
20131116 22:52:21< fabi> I am fine with both.
20131116 22:52:52< shadowm> My disgust with the gmail interface may have contributed to misparsing the mail.
20131116 22:52:53< justinzane> fabi: yes
20131116 22:53:18< justinzane> though i've been working in a test repos called sdl2_tests for the moment
20131116 22:54:30< justinzane> basically, I've been horrified at the level of "interdependence" between source files. That makes refactoring ungodly miserable since changing one header seems to inevitable cause breakeage in a dozen sources
20131116 22:55:06< justinzane> So, I just created a little demo using SD2 for myself so that I could make sure of the execution in its simplest form.
20131116 22:57:21< fabi> That sounds like porting Wesnoth to SDL2.0 is a huge and hard task?
20131116 22:57:32< justinzane> One of the things that I'm trying to do is to create a clear separation between the UI mechanics and the game. In my silly example I just got logic client <--> SDL ui server working one way. If it seems to work for getting events from SDL2 back to the logic, I'll clean up the code and put it back into wesnoth.
20131116 22:57:48< justinzane> fabi: Probably I am making it harder than it needs to be
20131116 22:59:55< justinzane> however, there seem to me (an under-educated, under-experienced newb :) ) to be some serious architectural issues with the way the current code has grown organically.
20131116 23:00:19< justinzane> and having to rewrite much of the event handling anyway, this seemed to be a good approach
20131116 23:00:25< justinzane> and it is fun!
20131116 23:00:30< justinzane> fabi:
20131116 23:01:03< justinzane> the core problem is that many of the text IO and mouse IO bits of SDL have changed drastically. 
20131116 23:01:39< justinzane> while SDL_BlitSurface can basically work the same for a less-than-optimal display mechanism, 
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20131116 23:02:40< justinzane> IO need to change since text is unicode by default, the mouse wheel is handled differently, the keyboard functions are very different, etc.
20131116 23:03:26< fabi> Yes, I have the hope that the new input handling makes the hotkey system a lot more fail safe.
20131116 23:04:02< justinzane> My goal is to get a simplistic and dumb SDL2 daemon that can send events to the Wesnoth client and process bitmaps from the client. 
20131116 23:04:24< justinzane> I'll know if a few days if I'm completely full of shit. 
20131116 23:04:31< shadowm> Er, what.
20131116 23:04:39< fabi> Okay
20131116 23:04:53 * justinzane I already know that I
20131116 23:05:14 * justinzane am 90% full... :)
20131116 23:05:20< fabi> :-)
20131116 23:05:50< justinzane> Once I get the code cleaned up and readable I'll let you know, fabi
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20131116 23:14:41< gfgtdf> how do we handle backwards compability?
20131116 23:17:18< gfgtdf> i guess older replays wont work with newer versions anyway because the units stats are different?
20131116 23:18:03< shadowm> Compatibility between versions of the same stable series is required at all costs (including not fixing bugs).
20131116 23:18:18< shadowm> Otherwise you might want to be more specific.
20131116 23:24:12< gfgtdf> shadowm: i thought of changing replays: instad of using [choose] value=2[/coose] for unit advancements i want to add more information like [choose]value=2 [unit]x=1, y=55 underlaying_id=234[/unit][/coose], because the current implementation to determine which unit should advance fails in special mp situations. plus it would make the code easier.
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20131116 23:26:03< gfgtdf> shadowm: hmm wait i think this  is even possible with keeping compability, but maybe not for replays of very complicated umc content.
20131116 23:27:43< shadowm> Replay compatibility between non-beta non-RC development releases of the same series isn't required.
20131116 23:28:19< gfgtdf> what is 'RC '  ?
20131116 23:28:22< shadowm> Otherwise that'd easily result in chicken-and-egg situations.
20131116 23:28:27< shadowm> Release Candidate.
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20131116 23:29:10< gfgtdf> i don't get it :s
20131116 23:29:24< gfgtdf> where is the chicken-and-egg  situation ?
20131116 23:30:07< shadowm> If we required replay compatibility between development releases before a feature freeze, the only possible instance to introduce or change replay protocol aspects would be the X.Y.0 version of that bracnh.
20131116 23:31:25< gfgtdf> ok
20131116 23:32:54< gfgtdf> shadowm: another thing is it bad practise to still use pull request although i could push directly to wesnoth ?
20131116 23:34:27< gfgtdf> meaning making a pull request, waiting for travis build, and then merging myself ?
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20131116 23:39:20< shadowm> I don't know. AI0867 what do you think since you are the one of the pull request handlers?
20131116 23:40:01< shadowm> We've been using Git and GitHub for less than a year, so there's not a lot of established practice in that regard.
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20131116 23:55:33< SigurdFD> Hi. Any Git experts here? I'm working on https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?20895
--- Log closed Sun Nov 17 00:00:04 2013