--- Log opened Sun Dec 08 00:00:37 2013
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20131208 00:43:25< irker615> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master e7f17412378b / src/ai/default/attack.cpp: RCA AI: fix a bug that kept surrounded units from attacking http://git.io/ynFRTQ
20131208 00:43:41< AI0867> shadowm: looks like the people at debian dislike cmake's habit too
20131208 00:43:55< AI0867> see this thread: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/02/msg00124.html
20131208 00:44:30< shadowm> I don't know what "EBW" means, I'm not too familiarized with the packager lingo.
20131208 00:44:44< AI0867> the other people in the thread wondered about that too
20131208 00:44:50< AI0867> and decided it meant Evil Bad and Wrong
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20131208 00:47:06< shadowm> Come to think of it, KDE uses cmake.
20131208 00:48:06< shadowm> But they probably use Qt's own assertion check code that hopefully isn't tied to NDEBUG not being defined.
20131208 00:48:49< shadowm> Otherwise yeah, that'd explain why KDE is plagued with mysterious hard-to-debug crashes. Maybe I'll take a look some day when I'm so bored that dying would be the only other acceptable course of action. :p
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20131208 00:50:13< shadowm> As an alternative I'd propose replacing our usage of libc's assert() with an equivalent that doesn't get compiled out by cmake's ridiculous defaults.
20131208 00:51:14< shadowm> The only obvious downside is that e.g. Windows users might not get that fancy assertion check failed popup that they don't really understand most of the time anyway.
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20131208 00:56:56< AI0867> shadowm: on WIN32 you could just implement our own special assert as assert
20131208 00:57:33< shadowm> Right.
20131208 00:57:55< shadowm> It should be more productive to ban NDEBUG. :p
20131208 00:58:19< shadowm> #ifdef NDEBUG   #error **** off   #endif
20131208 00:58:32< AI0867> do eeeeeeeeet
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20131208 01:03:42< AI0867> or just #warning *** NDEBUG is unsupported ***
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20131208 01:07:12< shadowm> Most cmake users wouldn't understand what the warning means.
20131208 01:07:49< shadowm> That is, pretty much everyone who isn't either a packager or a developer. They wouldn't know what to do.
20131208 01:09:09< gfgtdf> i thought disabling assert is the only thing that NDEBUG does ?
20131208 01:09:25< AI0867> *** NDEBUG is not supported. If you don't know what that means, you're using cmake and should complain to that project ***
20131208 01:09:49< AI0867> gfgtdf: yes, and we use assert to catch various issues before they can become memory corruption and such
20131208 01:10:02< shadowm> gfgtdf: See the developers mailing list to which you are surely subscribed.
20131208 01:10:09< shadowm> I provided a lengthy explanation of why this is a problem.
20131208 01:11:40< gfgtdf> AI0867: ye i know, i use assert too
20131208 01:12:19< AI0867> well, that means cmake users get random segfaults instead, or memory corruption that causes weird issues (and crashes) later on
20131208 01:13:58< gfgtdf> AI0867: ye i already red shadowms message by now.
20131208 01:15:30< shadowm> Segmentation faults at least may end up reported in the tracker and a developer that isn't using -DNDEBUG may find the cause earlier than the crash site when attempting to reproduce it.
20131208 01:15:36< shadowm> May.
20131208 01:15:56< shadowm> Quirky inexplicable misbehavior, though? Not really.
20131208 01:16:11< shadowm> If this isn't a problem right now, it's a problem waiting to happen.
20131208 01:17:59< shadowm> mattsc: Re http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=563835#p563835 , it's embarassing but I guess I should admit I've been aware of the bug for ages.
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20131208 01:18:32< shadowm> I just never thought it was a proper bug (for reporting) instead of a design limitation or something.
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20131208 01:40:55< mattsc> shadowm: well, after doofus reported it I noticed that I have probably observed it as well, although possibly only with side leaders and I figured it was just the AI being super careful with them.
20131208 01:42:07< shadowm> Yeah, one doesn't usually get to surround an enemy unit unless they are the last one left standing.
20131208 01:42:23< mattsc> exactly
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20131208 02:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 203 bugs, 346 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131208 03:06:12< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 86d6111c3e56 / src/unit.cpp: Add a !null assert http://git.io/4UPNIw
20131208 03:06:14< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master fe7729a07c0e / src/dialogs.cpp: Add a !null assert http://git.io/oUbkIA
20131208 03:06:16< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master cb5cc6dee9aa / src/game_preferences_display.cpp: Add missing braces around a multiline block http://git.io/kmBctA
20131208 03:06:18< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 04ad48f8facb / src/variant.cpp: Add missing break http://git.io/hsMp_w
20131208 03:06:20< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 095adba856b1 / src/variant.cpp: Add missing break http://git.io/L6jFmw
20131208 03:06:22< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master c217ce7a1262 / src/theme.cpp: Don't increment an iterator if it's past the end http://git.io/PpxUgw
20131208 03:06:24< irker615> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 9a0512772ee8 / src/theme.cpp: Don't increment an iterator if it's past the end http://git.io/zxSq1Q
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20131208 04:28:26< fabi_> hi
20131208 04:29:29< fabi_> AI0867: Hello, don't believe that I don
20131208 04:29:56< fabi_> 't recognize you are cleaning a lot up after me. Thank you very much :-)
20131208 04:35:14< fabi_> wesbot: seen LordBob_?
20131208 04:35:14< wesbot> fabi_: The person with the nick LordBob_ last spoke 2d 5h ago.  2d 4h ago they left with the message: Quit: LordBob_
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20131208 08:54:25< shadowm> fabi_: So why can't I see an enemy unit's reach when hovering over it anymore?
20131208 08:55:02< shadowm> And yes, I know there's still CTRL+V to check all enemies' reach.
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20131208 10:08:44< irker615> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 45a01d667425 / changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-tutorial/ja.po: updated Japanese translation http://git.io/Nhjw7g
20131208 10:08:46< irker615> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 8f23b615b08d / changelog players_changelog: fixed number of chars per line for changelogs http://git.io/SeIH0Q
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20131208 12:08:48< mordante> servus
20131208 12:13:10< mordante> justinzane_, is there any compiler out there that has _complete_ C++11 support?
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20131208 12:35:30< trademark_> mordante, I think gcc 4.8.1 has?
20131208 12:36:34< trademark_> but maybe it worth to allow dev to use a subset of C++11, at least the common features such as the move semantic or the variadic template (or features that are well-supported in many compilers).
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20131208 13:00:18< mordante> trademark_, it lacks regex library support
20131208 13:01:33< mordante> I had a look at the common set of supported features in compilers in a while ago and the overlap was small
20131208 13:02:15< mordante> the problem with a subset is, that people will use all features supported by their compiler and suddenly it breaks on other compilers
20131208 13:03:18< mordante> especially MSVC support was bad, but they seem to be working hard on catching up
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20131208 14:46:26< Ivanovic> okay, we got 7 people who want to be in in the group booking for the hotel in brussels downtown
20131208 14:46:57< Ivanovic> AI0867, fabi_, mordante, thunderstruck, trademark_, Crab_: i will book the rooms now
20131208 14:47:08< Ivanovic> it is going to be two two bed rooms and one triple
20131208 14:47:16< Ivanovic> everybody fine with this?
20131208 14:47:28< Ivanovic> i have not heard a thing from LordBob so I will not include him in the booking
20131208 14:47:58< mordante> Ivanovic, you saw the message of Andrius Šilinskas?
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20131208 14:48:12< Ivanovic> mordante: yes, this is why I included thunderstruck in the list
20131208 14:48:13< thunderstruck> mordante: That's me.
20131208 14:48:45< mordante> ah ok, I wasn't sure whether it was you, I had another nick in mind
20131208 14:48:57< thunderstruck> I'll try to remember and mention my nick next time when posting there :)
20131208 14:49:33< fabi_> Ivanovic: Can't you wait until we hear from LordBob?
20131208 14:49:47< fabi_> Ivanovic: You might send him a Forum PM.
20131208 14:49:55< Ivanovic> fabi_: i have no idea when he will be around again or reply
20131208 14:50:04< Ivanovic> and i would prefer to book while rooms are still available
20131208 14:50:13< mordante> Ivanovic, heard anything from boucman?
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20131208 14:50:21< Ivanovic> nope, nothing from boucman
20131208 14:50:48< mordante> :-(
20131208 14:51:04< Ivanovic> fabi_: his last forum visit was on dev 5th
20131208 14:51:15< Ivanovic> so no idea if this is more fruitful than a mail which I already sent
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20131208 14:54:26< mordante> Ivanovic, I'm fine with booking as proposed
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20131208 14:54:56< trademark_> Ivanovic, it's ok for me too.
20131208 14:55:14< Ivanovic> fabi_: i will wait with booking until tomorrow after work and then just continue with it no matter if I heard from LordBob_ by then or not
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20131208 14:56:18< fabi_> Ivanovic: Yeah, let's hope he notices or is fine with a different place or method to stay.
20131208 14:56:53< Ivanovic> sent a PM
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20131208 14:57:54< Ivanovic> okay, I am off now for today, speak with you tomorrow
20131208 14:58:38< mordante> bye Ivanovic 
20131208 14:59:29< trademark_> Ivanovic, bye, thanks for handling the booking!
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20131208 16:12:26< fabi_> thunderstruck: ping
20131208 16:29:57< thunderstruck> fabi_: pong
20131208 16:31:50< fabi_> thunderstruck: I tested LoW MP a little. After finishing a scenario the MP dialog allowed me to replace Kalenz and Landar with some leaders from the chosen era.
20131208 16:33:34< thunderstruck> fabi_: So, you were not able to do that in the first scenario?
20131208 16:33:48< thunderstruck> only in consesecutive ones?
20131208 16:35:30< fabi_> yes
20131208 16:35:59< thunderstruck> I think I know what the problem is.
20131208 16:36:31< thunderstruck> I'll try to look into it as soon as I'll have most of my exams done.
20131208 16:36:57< thunderstruck> That's will be in about a week.
20131208 16:37:01< thunderstruck> that will*
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20131208 16:44:35< fabi_> thunderstruck: Do you think it is a c++ bug? I thought it is just a matter of adding some WML to the consecutive scenarios.
20131208 16:45:19< thunderstruck> fabi_: No. I think there is a bug in how players are transfered between scenarios.
20131208 16:46:03< thunderstruck> Wait. What do you mean by "c++ bug"? The bug in C++ code?
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20131208 17:33:28< fabi_> thunderstruck: yes
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20131208 17:52:23< AI0867> shadowm: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39726
20131208 18:19:47< mordante> I'm off bye
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20131208 18:24:31< gfgtdf> is "beeing able to rename units during the enemies turn" an important feature ?
20131208 18:32:07< zookeeper> surely not very important, but it's nice to be able to do things like that when it's _not_ your own turn, so people don't have to wait just because you want to give units silly names.
20131208 18:33:09< zookeeper> it'd give off a rather poor impression, since naturally there's no user-comprehensible reason for why you shouldn't be able to do that
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20131208 18:43:38< gfgtdf> zookeeper: well umc can use unit names, so renaming units asyncroniously can cause oos.
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20131208 20:49:08< thunderstruck> Does anyone know anything about this MP_VISION thing? (http://git.io/5g2FpQ)
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20131208 21:21:34< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 17cd34025306 / .gitignore: Ignore project files for all versions of QtCreator. http://git.io/cc4a7Q
20131208 21:21:36< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 34f1c268b896 / src/ (4 files): Display custom options directly on the configure screen. http://git.io/aW7Tyg
20131208 21:21:38< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master ea6317433f8b / src/ (mp_options.cpp mp_options.hpp): Set initial values for custom options. http://git.io/ugZxqQ
20131208 21:21:40< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 1e982840adf4 / src/mp_options.cpp: Make custom sliders and textboxes wider. http://git.io/cRX8EQ
20131208 21:21:42< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master ff7629865be1 / src/mp_options.cpp: A bit more sophisticated layout for custom options. http://git.io/isBChA
20131208 21:21:44< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master d36e39b2a719 / src/ (mp_options.cpp mp_options.hpp multiplayer_configure.cpp): For custom sliders, show the current value in the label. http://git.io/V1xCVQ
20131208 21:21:46< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 006c2f428dc3 / src/ (config.cpp config.hpp): Add a function to config that tells the total number of children. http://git.io/dSaRlQ
20131208 21:21:48< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 5f21a5e06ea9 / src/ (mp_options.cpp mp_options.hpp multiplayer_configure.cpp): Display custom options in sections; don't display inactive options. http://git.io/KCF2tg
20131208 21:21:50< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master f2cbf64a07ba / src/mp_options.hpp: Make option_display::process_event non-pure virtual. http://git.io/xMg3VA
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20131208 22:05:29< gfgtdf> lipk: have you tested, wether all_children_count realy returns the number of childs and not just the number of keys ?
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20131208 22:17:03< lipkab> gfgtdf: Eek, good catch.
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20131208 22:22:32< irker770> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 96b48b23602d / src/config.cpp: Return the number of actual children instead of keys. http://git.io/sd7Vsw
20131208 22:22:41< lipkab> gfgtdf: Now it does!
20131208 22:22:44< lipkab> :)
20131208 22:23:43< gfgtdf> ok :)
20131208 22:26:07< lipkab> Vote: who thinks it's a good idea to announce a challenge on the forums to develop an mp modification for mainline?
20131208 22:27:07< lipkab> I think we should have at least on or two in mainline, but I'm not sure what would be the best way to get them created.
20131208 22:27:13< lipkab> *one
20131208 22:29:30< gfgtdf> lipkab: you have any idea on what those modifications should do ?
20131208 22:29:52< lipkab> Of course I don't.
20131208 22:30:38< gfgtdf> lipkab: you know any modification that is currently used sometimes ?
20131208 22:31:15< lipkab> No. Modifications are 1.11-exclusive and nobody plays MP on 1.11.
20131208 22:31:39< gfgtdf> lipkab: ah i forgot.
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20131208 22:37:46< mattsc> Ron & Fred exist as MP modifications (but I am not suggesting that they should be made mainline mods, they aren't ready for that; just saying that that's an existing example)
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20131208 22:38:42< shadowm> iceiceice: Out of curiosity, are you cbeck88 on GitHub?
20131208 22:38:47< iceiceice> hi
20131208 22:38:48< iceiceice> yes
20131208 22:39:11< iceiceice> i realize that its fairly confusing, i have a different handle on forums, github, and gna
20131208 22:39:44< iceiceice> i try to write ~iceiceice~ at the bottom, i think i did this on pull request 85
20131208 22:39:53< shadowm> I don't find it confusing at all, it's just that I didn't really have any evidence suggesting that was the case until I saw a forum post of yours referencing a PR.
20131208 22:40:51< lipkab> mattsc: Ron and Fred are AIs, aren't they? If anything, they should go to the AI selection box, I guess.
20131208 22:42:24< shadowm> AI0867: I think it was fixed in 1.11.x, not sure. The code changed a lot since 1.10.x and I am not too interested in maintaining that version anymore.
20131208 22:42:26< mattsc> lipkab: Yeah, true.  And some version of Ron actually is there already; that's what the 'Experimental AI' is.
20131208 22:43:46< shadowm> "the error message is a windows specific message, and is normaly not caused by a programm error."
20131208 22:43:51< shadowm> Wow. No
20131208 22:44:23< shadowm> "Developers normaly use the (1.11.7) dev version, so for bugs reports it's reccomended to use that awell."
20131208 22:44:27< shadowm> Also no.
20131208 22:45:04< shadowm> gfgtdf: The 1.10.x maintenance branch exists for a reason. The fact that most development takes place on master doesn't mean fixing bugs on 1.10.x isn't our responsibility.
20131208 22:45:41< shadowm> You might want to keep this in mind in the future.
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20131208 22:50:00< gfgtdf> shadowm: the motivation, to fix a windows bug that doesnt effect the downloadable versions is quite low, and if it's on 10.6 the motivation is even lower.
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20131208 22:51:25< shadowm> gfgtdf: It clearly says 1.10.7, not 10.6 which isn't even an existing Wesnoth version. Also, saying that it affects a numbered release while claiming it doesn't affect a "downloadable version" is self-contradicting.
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20131208 22:53:05< shadowm> gfgtdf: And where did you get the idea that the OP compiled it by themselves?
20131208 22:53:56< gfgtdf> shadowm: hm maybe i misread, in that case the whole post is crap.
20131208 22:56:08< gfgtdf> shadowm: just checked and i misread, i think i just thought from the topic that someone was using msvc before i event read the post.
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20131208 23:01:50< shadowm> AI0867: Also, I can't reproduce it on Linux, but I'm not sure if it's because it's platform specific or there's a more nuanced network thing going on.
20131208 23:03:02< shadowm> I tried connecting to localhost (without a running campaignd), a remote host without a running campaignd, locahost:<invalid port number>, and 255.255.255.255 (invalid host), and a network_asio::error is caught and handled correctly in all cases.
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