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20131213 09:35:05< thunderstruck> Hi fabi.
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20131213 14:44:02-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 203 bugs, 346 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131213 17:27:45< mattsc> I seem to have a noticeable delay between initiating an action (right-clicking to make a unit move/attack) and the unit starting to move now (something like a quarter second, sometimes approaching half a second).
20131213 17:27:58< mattsc> Do other people have that too, or is it just my system/build?
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20131213 18:06:12< fabi> mattsc: hi
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20131213 18:06:51< mattsc> hi fabi 
20131213 18:08:18< fabi> mattsc: no, no delay here
20131213 18:08:51< fabi> LordBob reported a delay with the main menu (title_screen) buttons.
20131213 18:08:54< mattsc> fabi: hmm, okay.  Thanks.
20131213 18:08:55< fabi> on macosx
20131213 18:09:36< mattsc> fabi: yeah, I have that too, but this one is new.
20131213 18:09:51< fabi> So they are most likely not related.
20131213 18:13:09< mattsc> I'm not 100% sure, but probably not.  I want to do a few more tests, just wanted to know if it's just me or a known problem.
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20131213 18:20:09< fabi> hi thunderstruck
20131213 18:21:35< fabi> zookeeper: ping
20131213 18:22:39< fabi> mattsc: You are not a heavy user of the map editor, are you?
20131213 18:22:56< mattsc> fabi: no, not at all
20131213 18:23:47< fabi> Let me ask anyway.
20131213 18:24:24< fabi> I have more or less two modes of operation the editor can be in.
20131213 18:24:39< fabi> That is "Pure Map" and "Scenario" mode.
20131213 18:25:02< fabi> At least it might make sense to present those two modes to the user.
20131213 18:25:18< fabi> Other concepts might get rid of the modes.
20131213 18:26:14< fabi> The reason I like to introduce them is the different result of a saving operation.
20131213 18:29:27< fabi> I need answers to questions like: What to do when a user opens a pure map file but adds stuff which need a scenario to be saved.
20131213 18:29:57< fabi> 1) Disable every gui element of scenario specific functions when a pure map file is loaded.
20131213 18:30:19< vultraz> IMO the editor is fine as it is
20131213 18:30:34< vultraz> Adding "modes" would make it more complicated
20131213 18:30:34< fabi> uh
20131213 18:30:43< mattsc> fabi: a pure map file is one that doesn't go along with a .cfg ?
20131213 18:30:51< fabi> yes
20131213 18:31:54< fabi> vultraz: The always safe 2 files approach isn't very user friendly. 
20131213 18:32:00< mattsc> Those are the only ones I ever use (I immediately delete the .cfg if the editor produces one), so I probably can't really help here.
20131213 18:32:40< fabi> I like the editor to save everything in one file.
20131213 18:33:23< fabi> And I like to protect the user from getting a different file than he loaded.
20131213 18:33:32< fabi> file type
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20131213 18:36:18< mattsc> fabi: it should be possible for the user though to take a pure map file and then add "stuff" to it.
20131213 18:36:40< mattsc> Is it possible to have the editor detect whether anything was added that requires scenario mode?
20131213 18:36:50< vultraz> fabi: make it a save option
20131213 18:36:56< vultraz> a checkbox
20131213 18:36:58< mattsc> Otherwise, can you put a checkbox somewhere?
20131213 18:37:02< mattsc> yes.  ^
20131213 18:37:05< vultraz> "save scenario metadata"
20131213 18:37:17< vultraz> if checked it will generate the CFG file
20131213 18:37:21< vultraz> if not, only the .map file
20131213 18:39:09< fabi> hmmmm
20131213 18:39:33< fabi> My plan was to write maps to ~userdir/editor/maps/
20131213 18:39:45< fabi> and scenarios to ~userdir/editor/scenarios/
20131213 18:40:17< vultraz> That can still be done
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20131213 18:40:23< fabi> the editor/scenarios dir is scanned by the mp create screen.
20131213 18:40:39< vultraz> Just have a checkbox in the save dialog to dictate whether to save the .cfg or not
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20131213 18:44:49< fabi> vultraz: I don't know how this can work. The file selection dialog is not up to handle that.
20131213 18:45:09< vultraz> Well
20131213 18:45:14< fabi> It was already a hack to load and safe a cfg at the same location.
20131213 18:45:18< vultraz> the file selection dialog has to be redone anyway
20131213 18:45:25< vultraz> But for now
20131213 18:45:34< vultraz> you could put the checkbox in the main UI
20131213 18:45:36< vultraz> or something
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20131213 18:45:42< fabi> Know that I need 2 files at possible different locations makes it very complicated.
20131213 18:46:03< fabi> The different mode approach is much more self containing.
20131213 18:46:15< fabi> I just safe a scenario that works out of the box.
20131213 18:46:38< vultraz> You could always create a custom save dialog for the editor that does not hack stuff together
20131213 18:48:43< fabi> another case?
20131213 18:48:50< fabi> pure map
20131213 18:48:56< fabi> extra config
20131213 18:49:09< fabi> scenario file
20131213 18:50:49< fabi> Or let's ask the other way around: Is there any benefit of having the extra config way of storage?
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20131213 19:07:23< zookeeper> fabi, yes?
20131213 19:07:53< fabi> zookeeper: Do you have an opinion about the editor stuff discussed above?
20131213 19:09:16< fabi> It is basically the question about 2 different concepts. 
20131213 19:11:00< zookeeper> i think it'd make sense to just provide 2-3 different saving options: save pure map data only, or save scenario file with map data embedded, or save map and scenario separately (dunno if the last one would even be necessary)
20131213 19:11:19< zookeeper> personally i'd not include the latter
20131213 19:13:19< zookeeper> i'm not sure what should happen if you load a scenario file with non-embedded map data, make changes, and then want to save again
20131213 19:15:47< fabi> Isn't it clean to just disable every gui element that needs a scenario when the user loads a pure map file?
20131213 19:15:59< fabi> make it grey
20131213 19:16:58< zookeeper> no, because then you're screwed if you want to load a pure map file and start adding scenario stuff to it?
20131213 19:17:47< fabi> Well, there would be a function to switch into scenario mode.
20131213 19:18:09< zookeeper> i'd much rather see the map/scenario separation only at the point where the user saves
20131213 19:18:49< fabi> Hmmm yes
20131213 19:19:13< fabi> I see thousands of users who either transform their map into a scenario and ask why it no longer works.
20131213 19:19:33< zookeeper> it's also easy to explain in an extra dialog that "you're about to save map data only, if you wish to include units etc you've placed then save a scenario instead" etc
20131213 19:19:40< fabi> Or users who transformed their scenario into maps and ask to bring the lost data back.
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20131213 19:42:35< tomreyn> i see you use coverity scan, can you talk about your experiences with it?
20131213 19:43:00< tomreyn> we (MegaGlest) just signed up for it, and our lead developer is reviewing the results.
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20131213 19:55:22< fabi> AI0867: ^
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--- Log closed Sat Dec 14 00:00:11 2013