--- Log opened Sun Dec 22 00:00:19 2013
20131222 00:03:26< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 4aff27342d2a / src/controller_base.cpp: Better handle middle click scrolling event orders of down and initial click http://git.io/d8pn6w
20131222 00:03:28< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master fd5fa978184d / src/hotkey/hotkey_command.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/uLwLhA
20131222 00:04:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20131222 00:04:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 00:05:11-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:06:30-!- happygrue [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 00:06:58-!- happygrue [~quassel@c-66-30-155-184.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:06:58-!- happygrue [~quassel@c-66-30-155-184.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20131222 00:06:58-!- happygrue [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:07:00< shadowm> Coffee_irc: By the way, several of those variables could be const.
20131222 00:07:32< Coffee_irc> shadowm: you mean stick "const" before the function definitions?
20131222 00:07:45< shadowm> No, the variables'.
20131222 00:08:30< shadowm> I also believe original_loc could be a const reference.
20131222 00:08:52-!- stikonas [~gentoo@2002:514:c832:0:216:cfff:febb:f05] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20131222 00:09:59< AI0867> a whole bunch of trow images were deleted? what have they been replaced with?
20131222 00:10:24< AI0867> ah, they were already unused?
20131222 00:11:03< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Incidentally, earlier I mentioned that (attack) animations occasionally stutter, resulting in missed frames and distorted sound. Have you experienced anything like this?
20131222 00:11:49< Coffee_irc> shadowm: lipkab mentioned something yesterday with animation stuttering
20131222 00:12:02< Coffee_irc> and said it could be to do with 'intelligent fog'?
20131222 00:12:09< lipkab> No, it was today.
20131222 00:12:20< Coffee_irc> yesterday for me :)
20131222 00:12:26< shadowm> Well, I doubt fog or shroud are updated mid-attack...
20131222 00:12:41< Coffee_irc> shadowm: did this happen with 1.11.7?
20131222 00:13:10< bumbadadabum> I have never had this happen to me
20131222 00:13:23< shadowm> No idea, I have been playing on master for very long and I don't remember exactly when it started to happen more often. For all I know it could be just my machine/configuration.
20131222 00:13:42< lipkab> shadowm: No, the dependency system doesn't really work atm.
20131222 00:13:42< Coffee_irc> there has only been one change to the animation code by me for a while on the dev version
20131222 00:14:02< shadowm> lipkab: I meant the dialog label replacement.
20131222 00:14:10< shadowm> Caption. I mean caption.
20131222 00:14:14< Coffee_irc> shadowm: could it have started at 1.11.2?
20131222 00:14:24< Coffee_irc> that's when the new code was introduced
20131222 00:14:26< lipkab> Ah. Yes, that's fine with me.
20131222 00:14:29< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Unlikely.
20131222 00:14:42< zookeeper> AI0867, they were all replaced by the new bigmap(s)
20131222 00:15:04< zookeeper> i just forgot to include their deletion in the bigmap commit
20131222 00:17:14-!- Adamant14 [57a17fc8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.161.127.200] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20131222 00:17:27< Coffee_irc> shadowm: well, I suppose I can look at that any time after the featre freeze as well
20131222 00:17:58< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I volunteer to do a bit of bug testing
20131222 00:18:34< Coffee_irc> you guys haven't really done much in previous versions IIRC :P (remembers 1.8 release)
20131222 00:19:18< AI0867> I'm getting some noise in the test scenario
20131222 00:23:04-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:23:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20131222 00:24:48< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 74de4fd1ff68 / src/controller_base.cpp: Make some middle click scrolling variables const http://git.io/shs_8w
20131222 00:25:12< zookeeper> i wonder whether it'd be a terrible idea to switch li'sar's leadership and skirmisher to an ability which grants all adjacent units +1 melee strikes on defense
20131222 00:27:02< lipkab> That would be quite a buff, I think.
20131222 00:27:26< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: why not all strikes?
20131222 00:27:33< fabi_> lipkab: hi
20131222 00:27:41< lipkab> fabi_: Hello.
20131222 00:27:46-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g228199110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 00:27:51< bumbadadabum> well
20131222 00:28:07< fabi_> lipkab: Did thunderstruck spoke with you about the MP UI?
20131222 00:28:07< bumbadadabum> or just protection?
20131222 00:28:10-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 00:28:13< bumbadadabum> if you want something defensive
20131222 00:28:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:28:36< zookeeper> Coffee_irc, because thunderers :x
20131222 00:28:45< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: yeah, it can lead to more deaths by suicide atta cks by AI on hard
20131222 00:28:56< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: woses?
20131222 00:29:02< bumbadadabum> Protection would be original
20131222 00:29:06< bumbadadabum> and balanced, I think
20131222 00:29:06< lipkab> fabi_: Yes we did and came to the conclusion that the hotkey dialog is not relevant to the problem.
20131222 00:29:12< bumbadadabum> strikes are powerful
20131222 00:29:31< fabi_> lipkab: hotkey dialog? What about it? 
20131222 00:29:41< zookeeper> Coffee_irc, there's no woses
20131222 00:30:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 00:30:09< bumbadadabum> thunderers, fighters
20131222 00:30:11< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: I know (just like there is no santa)
20131222 00:30:12< bumbadadabum> also halberdiers
20131222 00:30:49< lipkab> fabi_: Well, thunderstruck mentioned that you think that the hotkey dialog implements the behavior we need for the mod list, but it doesn't.
20131222 00:31:10< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: The problem with increasing strikes is that it's highly inconsistent
20131222 00:31:22< Coffee_irc> ^ I would agree with that
20131222 00:31:32< fabi_> lipkab: But you recognize that the current situation is broken?
20131222 00:31:49< bumbadadabum> an elvish fighter with an extra strike gains +5 damage on melee
20131222 00:31:59< bumbadadabum> A horseman gets 9
20131222 00:32:19< lipkab> fabi_: I wouldn't call it 'broken' but it's certainly suboptimal.
20131222 00:32:36< fabi_> lipkab: If you turn on the UI sound, you will recognize that it is broken.
20131222 00:32:43< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: : some of us like to play with mostly ranged units as well
20131222 00:33:08< bumbadadabum> ^
20131222 00:33:20-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:33:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:33:26< lipkab> fabi_: ?
20131222 00:33:32< zookeeper> well your ranged units would still defend a whole lot better
20131222 00:33:51< bumbadadabum> better defensive abilities would be granting them firststrike
20131222 00:33:56< bumbadadabum> or increasing resistances
20131222 00:34:03< fabi_> lipkab: Double clicking the list gives you a sound feedback. But nothing happens.
20131222 00:34:06< zookeeper> but sure, it'd allow making some insanely deadly defensive formations
20131222 00:34:31< bumbadadabum> also, it doesn't scale with level
20131222 00:35:07< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: to balance strikes you usually have to lower hp IMO
20131222 00:35:38< zookeeper> bumbadadabum, i thought about the firststrike thing, but that alone couldn't replace leadership and it'd be conceptually too close to leadership to co-exist with it
20131222 00:35:50< happygrue> I think it sounds fun and interesting
20131222 00:36:11< happygrue> and if only used on defense seems like maybe it wouldn't be too powerful
20131222 00:36:18< happygrue> worth trying or thinking about IMO
20131222 00:36:33< lipkab> fabi_: Ah. Well, we can't disable the sound, can we?
20131222 00:36:53< fabi_> lipkab: If we can disable that sound we can also bind an action to it.
20131222 00:36:58< zookeeper> happygrue, i dunno, i'm already pretty convinced that it'd be too strong defensively :/
20131222 00:37:15< zookeeper> but if you have any other ideas...
20131222 00:37:20 * zookeeper goes to bed, will read logs
20131222 00:37:22< gfgtdf> i think a 'firstrike for adjacent units' is not easy to implement in wml/lua
20131222 00:37:30< zookeeper> gfgtdf, it is
20131222 00:37:41< zookeeper> or easy enough anyway
20131222 00:37:42< fabi_> zookeeper: The map is fine, sleep well :-)
20131222 00:37:47< zookeeper> great
20131222 00:37:50< happygrue> I was thinking +1 strikes on defense
20131222 00:37:56< happygrue> firststrike seems too good
20131222 00:38:05< lipkab> fabi_: Hm, no, you can't bind any action to sounds!
20131222 00:38:07< happygrue> but I guess I haven't looked at the math
20131222 00:38:20< gfgtdf> zookeeper: how? i know how it is doe in LotI and i definitely would call that pretty
20131222 00:38:44< gfgtdf> wouold NOT
20131222 00:38:50< gfgtdf> would not
20131222 00:38:50< fabi_> lipkab: Well, the sound is bound to the clicking event, why can't we also bind an action to it?
20131222 00:39:49< bumbadadabum> gfgtdf: the was he does it is inefficient
20131222 00:39:50< fabi_> lipkab: The hotkey preferences dialog does this. 
20131222 00:39:53< bumbadadabum> *way
20131222 00:40:03< gfgtdf> yes thats why i said
20131222 00:40:29< bumbadadabum> but it can be done better
20131222 00:40:45< lipkab> fabi_: Why would we want to? Replacing the button isn't a good idea, and if there's a big self-explanatory button, why would we need double clicks as well?
20131222 00:41:49< lipkab> The era list (and possibly a number of other listboxes in the game) also gives a sound and does nothing, by the way.
20131222 00:42:18< fabi_> Well, then we have more bugs. 
20131222 00:42:21< fabi_> To fix.
20131222 00:42:53-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20131222 00:43:00< lipkab> No, we have exactly one bug: the sound feedback can't be disabled.
20131222 00:43:37< lipkab> It's not like that double clicking a list item should trigger some action under all circumstances.
20131222 00:43:40< Coffee_irc> fabi_, lipkab: I would like to see double clicks activate and deactivate checkboxes
20131222 00:43:56< Coffee_irc> it is something that I have tried and found didn't work
20131222 00:44:18< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: why no single clicking ?
20131222 00:44:29< fabi_> gfgtdf: Yeah
20131222 00:44:44< fabi_> gfgtdf: That would be my preferred solution as well.
20131222 00:44:49< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: single click gives description on text, maybe activate on clicking the box?
20131222 00:45:10< Coffee_irc> that would be intuitive to me
20131222 00:45:32< bumbadadabum> I prefer single clicking
20131222 00:46:14< lipkab> Everyone prefers single clicking.
20131222 00:46:32< lipkab> But it can't be done with the listbox we have.
20131222 00:46:45< Coffee_irc> IMO clicking the box with the tick should activate and deactivate the ox IMO, but the tet should just highlight, double click toggling
20131222 00:47:44< Coffee_irc> *text
20131222 00:48:09< lipkab> Coffee_irc: Again: everyone knows how should it be done, but gui::menu doesn't allow us to do it that way.
20131222 00:48:36< fabi_> I disagree. 
20131222 00:48:40< Coffee_irc> lipkab: yeah, it is easy when you aren't coding it :D
20131222 00:48:55< fabi_> It is possible to do that.
20131222 00:49:03< lipkab> I'm all ears.
20131222 00:52:30< fabi_> you overwrite the method that handles left clicks?
20131222 00:53:24< lipkab> "<lipkab> But it can't be done with the listbox we have."
20131222 00:54:07< lipkab> Obviously, it *can* be done with listboxes we don't have.
20131222 00:54:36< fabi_> 	void set_click_selects(bool value);
20131222 00:54:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 00:54:59-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 00:57:13< lipkab> What's with that?
20131222 00:57:38< fabi_> It is the first step.
20131222 00:57:46< AI0867> fabi_: when will the old hotkeys work again?
20131222 00:57:52< AI0867> I'm missing the 'd' is unit description
20131222 00:59:17< lipkab> fabi_: No, the first step is "class multimenu"
20131222 00:59:51< fabi_> lipkab: Yes, that would be a good solution.
20131222 01:00:40< fabi_> I wonder why shadowm and others are after my like hell to produce proper gui elements and don't shove in stubs but here I am fighting a lonely war.
20131222 01:00:50< fabi_> s/my/me
20131222 01:01:40-!- rjaguar3 [~rjaguar3@c-67-175-80-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20131222 01:03:32< fabi_> lipkab: The preferences advanced menu is broken in the same way. Sound but no action.
20131222 01:03:42< lipkab> I'm not sure who you think you're fighting against. We all want those damn checkboxes to work.
20131222 01:04:09< Coffee_irc> if it is annoying enough maybe someone may help ;)
20131222 01:04:20< Coffee_irc> maybe the solution is to make it less functional :P
20131222 01:05:34< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 7eea4c5fb9b8 / data/ (58 files in 8 dirs): Import khalifate from wesnoth-umc-dev r19414 http://git.io/qme_0Q
20131222 01:05:35< AI0867> happygrue: ^
20131222 01:05:36< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 32fabf5489da / data/core/units.cfg: Refactor lightfly movetype a bit http://git.io/dME-6Q
20131222 01:05:38< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 55bd5e1729a0 / data/core/units/khalifate/Falcon.cfg: Remove explicit nozoc ellipse http://git.io/fU_NeA
20131222 01:05:40< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 7f61f8b08192 / data/core/units/ (15 files in 2 dirs): Remove unneeded ellipses http://git.io/KrWpYQ
20131222 01:05:42< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 725f9e398eb0 / data/ (28 files in 3 dirs): wmlindent run http://git.io/jkmYlw
20131222 01:05:44< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 0a4c353f5b79 / src/controller_base.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/WRjJ1Q
20131222 01:06:01< happygrue> \o/
20131222 01:06:09< AI0867> and of course I immediately realize I forgot the changelogs and release notes
20131222 01:06:15< AI0867> but maybe someone else wants to write those?
20131222 01:07:37< fabi_> Uh yes
20131222 01:07:43< fabi_> The khalifates are in.
20131222 01:07:47< happygrue> I cannot just now, I do not have a working repository just yet
20131222 01:08:23< happygrue> also, I think I should wait until the narcotics wear off before doing anything, as I am still foggy
20131222 01:08:31 * happygrue just had minor surgery
20131222 01:09:11< Coffee_irc> lol, all this fuss and they are still in a separate default+khalifate era :P
20131222 01:10:01< fabi_> Coffee_irc: That is okay. default alone is supposed to be a lot more balanced. 
20131222 01:11:26< happygrue> thanks a lot AI0867 - about release notes, perhaps the release notes from last time around mostly work as a base, I can handle release not stuff at some point
20131222 01:12:21< happygrue> liminal change needs to be updated in them and probably a few other tidbits
20131222 01:12:28-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 01:13:05-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:14:01< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master d6cd5f2649d4 / changelog players_changelog: Update changelogs http://git.io/qLkYDw
20131222 01:14:14< bumbadadabum> AI0867: Not release notes?
20131222 01:14:29-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 01:14:45-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:14:50< fabi_> AI0867: The Khalifate commit has some strange characters in the name definitions. Why?
20131222 01:15:06< fabi_> Abdul-ʿAdl
20131222 01:15:34< lipkab> happygrue: Is this description good for the era? http://pastebin.com/dmQsJvJi
20131222 01:15:47< fabi_> Ah, it is some kind of apostrophe the git frontend don't handles correctly. 
20131222 01:16:33< lipkab> (Since recently eras have descriptions just like mp maps and campaigns)
20131222 01:16:34< anonymissimus> AI0867: , happygrue Could we get noy's opinion whether the khalifate are balanced enough first please, he was the one forcing the removal back then
20131222 01:16:55< happygrue> sure
20131222 01:17:02< noy> I think its at the point that we need to include it to get more balance
20131222 01:17:05< happygrue> they are surely balanced enough for default+khalifate
20131222 01:17:09< noy> yes
20131222 01:17:13< happygrue> they are not yet ready for just default
20131222 01:17:18< fabi_> anonymissimus: Noy already gave his okay.
20131222 01:17:22< anonymissimus> okay then, fine
20131222 01:17:27-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds]
20131222 01:17:46 * anonymissimus represents the UMC lobby
20131222 01:18:11< happygrue> lipkab: I would not even mention upbalanced matchups, as the players good enough to notice will already know, and the less experienced players don't realize how tuned default is
20131222 01:18:38< happygrue> but saying they are "under development" is probably a good idea
20131222 01:18:42< fabi_> anonymissimus: And don't say noy forced the remove. shadowm forbids that.
20131222 01:19:09< happygrue> I'll post something in a few minutes, unless noy: do you want to do a default+khalifate era description also?
20131222 01:19:51< lipkab> Okay.
20131222 01:20:51< anonymissimus> happygrue: perhaps you need to remove the addon from the 1.11 and/or trunk addon server ? (I don't know whther it was ever uploaded)
20131222 01:21:53< noy> no, you can
20131222 01:22:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 01:22:28-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:22:53< anonymissimus> fabi_: you got my bug report last night ?
20131222 01:23:03< anonymissimus> or are you on drugs again
20131222 01:23:52< fabi_> I am always on drugs when doing Wesnoth stuff and dealing with the other developers. It is less frustrating then.
20131222 01:25:14< happygrue> lipkab: how about this:  http://pastebin.com/F8WjCLgB
20131222 01:25:19< happygrue> oops, one second
20131222 01:27:20-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 01:27:28< happygrue> lipkab: okay, this one:  http://pastebin.com/kTBeAj7X
20131222 01:27:35-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:28:23< fabi_> happygrue: Maybe replace "dusk and dawn" with "twilight"?
20131222 01:28:30< happygrue> sure
20131222 01:29:53< lipkab> happygrue: Looks good to me.
20131222 01:31:10< lipkab> So s/dusk and dawn/twilight and it can go in?
20131222 01:31:38< fabi_> Well, I am no native English speaker. The replacement is just a suggestion. Not sure if it fits.
20131222 01:35:46< Coffee_irc> fabi_: technically twlight is when the sun is below the horizon line and the refraction of the atmosphere bends the light you see
20131222 01:36:01< Coffee_irc> dawn is the first light, and dusk is a period when the sun is setting
20131222 01:36:44< happygrue> dusk and dawn was a reference to the two specific times in our day/night cycle that many of their units are best, twilight is fine, I don't care either way
20131222 01:36:45< fabi_> Hmmm, so twilight might be too restricted=
20131222 01:36:47< fabi_> ?
20131222 01:36:59< Coffee_irc> it's a bit long to include the full definition :P
20131222 01:37:01< happygrue> but dusk and dawn is useful in that it is a hint to the players
20131222 01:37:09< fabi_> indeed
20131222 01:37:40< happygrue> but either way is fine with me
20131222 01:38:41-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 01:38:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:39:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 01:43:21< shadowm> fabi_: Hi.
20131222 01:43:22< shadowm> 22:00:39 <fabi_> I wonder why shadowm and others are after my like hell to produce proper gui elements and don't shove in stubs but here I am fighting a lonely war.
20131222 01:43:31< shadowm> I'm sorry, could you rephrase that?
20131222 01:43:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 01:44:06< shadowm> Also re the Khalifate removal, I've basically been told at different times that any of three different people demanded that removal.
20131222 01:44:35< Coffee_irc> shadowm: they are not really part of default at the moment
20131222 01:44:36< shadowm> The answer varies depending on who I ask and all seem equally dubious in veracity.
20131222 01:44:42< fabi_> shadowm: Please have a look at the menu in the advanced preferences dialog and the menu in mp create for the modifications.
20131222 01:44:43< Coffee_irc> they are in a separate default+khalifate era
20131222 01:44:52< shadowm> Coffee_irc: ... In 1.9.9+svn.
20131222 01:45:09< irker935> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master 88dda7bedde3 / data/multiplayer/eras.cfg: Khalifate era description by happygrue. http://git.io/qLDIpg
20131222 01:45:27< lipkab> happygrue: ^
20131222 01:45:34< shadowm> fabi_: The menu for MP create was coded by lipkab.
20131222 01:45:49< fabi_> shadowm: The problem is that they give a sound feedback but nothing happens. It might sound pedantic but somehow all the gui work made me so.
20131222 01:45:58< shadowm> It seems to be operating under GUI1's limitations in a different manner than Advanced Preferences.
20131222 01:46:02< fabi_> shadowm: Yes, I know that lipkab is the author.
20131222 01:46:32< shadowm> So, what is the problem with this?
20131222 01:47:08< shadowm> I didn't code the Advanced Preferences menu and I can't really force anyone to follow that paradigm that is in itself a hacky workaround.
20131222 01:47:54< shadowm> As for you, you have expressed the will and desire to work on fixing GUI1 in the past, so that's why you get to receive additional demands.
20131222 01:48:24< fabi_> Well, it is fine for me. Hacky UI elements give me more freedom when doing own hacks.
20131222 01:48:41< shadowm> When criticizing something, I'll generally make sure to provide both a proper fix (i.e. implementing a new widget/widget mode) and a workaroundish fix.
20131222 01:49:04< shadowm> The developer should decide which approach their time would be best spent on.
20131222 01:49:40< lipkab> Bye channel.
20131222 01:49:41-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-5-206-173-211.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Távozom]
20131222 01:50:13< shadowm> Incidentally, since AFAIK the MP configuration screens are not really GUI1 (use GUI1 widgets but don't use gui::dialog), I'm naturally hesitant to do as much as look at them.
20131222 01:51:07< Coffee_irc> look I've got some spare time if you guys need some help with something specific
20131222 01:51:31< shadowm> Also, I don't shove in stubs because I have actually done so in the past and caused confusion and problems for everyone else.
20131222 01:51:35< Coffee_irc> I've already cut my teeth on the slider stuff
20131222 01:51:38< shadowm> That's why I don't shove in stubs anymore. :)
20131222 01:52:24< shadowm> AI0867, happygrue When should I expect to hear more of the Khalifate operation? :)
20131222 01:53:24< shadowm> fabi_: Do you have any pending changes on data/themes to commit? I am preparing a rather intrusive patch after a wmlindent pass here.
20131222 01:53:48< fabi_> shadowm: No, go ahead.
20131222 01:53:55< shadowm> There's also an earthquake in progress here.
20131222 01:54:00< happygrue> I will hope to be making progress checking stuff tomorrow
20131222 01:54:12< fabi_> shadowm: How heavy is it?
20131222 01:54:18< bumbadadabum> shadowm: seems fun, how bad is it
20131222 01:54:19< happygrue> so you'll hear something tomorrow, and I hope it will be progress
20131222 01:54:26< shadowm> Not a lot, I think it's over.
20131222 01:54:49< fabi_> Let's hope it wasn't the first little one of a bigger row.
20131222 01:54:49< shadowm> I'd hate it if this cup of sweet relaxing tea went to waste.
20131222 01:55:15< happygrue> my best guess is that it will still be a few days before everything is added and checked out well enough
20131222 01:55:15< fabi_> Any nuclear power plants in your area?
20131222 01:55:34< happygrue> anyone wishing to help check that "normal" stuff works with them right now would be great
20131222 01:55:58< shadowm> fabi_: Any attempts to draft laws to start building any such have been shot down for that and various other reasons.
20131222 01:56:22< fabi_> Good to hear.
20131222 01:56:42< happygrue> wesbot: Bug #21214 
20131222 01:56:52< happygrue> wesbot: bug #21214 
20131222 01:56:53< wesbot> Bug #21214  Assigned to: Andrius Silinskas <thunderstruck>  Status: None  Priority: 4
20131222 01:56:56< wesbot> Summary: MP Statistics wrongly lumps together all sides' recruits, kills, and losses
20131222 01:56:59< wesbot> Original submission: See the attached screenshots.  Notice also the damage sta
20131222 01:57:02< wesbot> tistics appear to be bugged.  The replay is also attached.  Note that I played K
20131222 01:57:05< wesbot> URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?21214
20131222 01:57:08< wesbot> Attached file (1st): http://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=19225
20131222 01:57:18< happygrue> hmmm, thought I marked it as a blocker because of the khalifate being added
20131222 01:57:26< happygrue> but that also needs to be fixed now
20131222 01:57:52< happygrue> yes, I did.  good
20131222 01:58:11< shadowm> Of course people start saturating cell phone lines shortly afterwards, and I'm on mobile broadband so I get hit by a sudden lag peak.
20131222 01:58:29< shadowm> That message took 3 minutes to get through.
20131222 01:58:41< shadowm> Er, two minutes. Maths.
20131222 02:05:42< shadowm> Wut.
20131222 02:06:02< shadowm> AI0867, happygrue: Oh, the Khalifate were already committed while I was afk. Never mind. :p
20131222 02:06:58< irker935> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 4c3959247144 / data/themes/pandora.cfg: Theme WML cleanup inspired by a wmlindent pass http://git.io/ramXiw
20131222 02:07:00< Coffee_irc> I am testing them now with my UMC survival
20131222 02:07:01< irker935> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master b8ce7522215e / data/themes/default.cfg: Theme WML cleanup inspired by a wmlindent pass http://git.io/sgKB9w
20131222 02:07:04< irker935> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 81bb3f8b0f98 / data/themes/macros.cfg: Theme WML cleanup inspired by a wmlindent pass http://git.io/D6_mZQ
20131222 02:07:07< irker935> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 060c35d82c84 / data/ (multiplayer/eras.cfg scenario-test.cfg themes/macros.cfg): wmlindent pass on mainline http://git.io/NDoyBw
20131222 02:07:28-!- anonymissimus [~chatzilla@HSI-KBW-149-172-228-192.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]]
20131222 02:07:58< shadowm> Running wmllint now.
20131222 02:08:57< shadowm> Who wrote the TURNS_OVER_ADVANTAGE macro in data/multiplayer/eras.cfg?
20131222 02:09:56< shadowm> bumbadadabum: Have you run wmllint on HttT as of late?
20131222 02:10:13< shadowm> fabi_: Have you run wmllint on LoW as of late?
20131222 02:10:20< shadowm> And I don't know who to ask for UtBS.
20131222 02:10:20< bumbadadabum> shadowm: To be honest, no
20131222 02:10:32< bumbadadabum> shadowm: Alarantalara 
20131222 02:10:48< bumbadadabum> Also, if you're running it on everything, also do for EI
20131222 02:10:57-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 02:11:11-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 02:12:28< shadowm> bumbadadabum: The makefile target I use inspects everything.
20131222 02:12:37< bumbadadabum> ok great
20131222 02:12:57< shadowm> Nothing for EI.
20131222 02:13:27-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054053190.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]]
20131222 02:14:34< irker935> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master b5a996f2eb2c / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/13_Epilogue.cfg: UtBS S13: add wmllint recognize directives for recall list units http://git.io/f-2vzg
20131222 02:15:32< shadowm> bumbadadabum, fabi_ : http://pastebin.com/RPPmPNS1
20131222 02:15:39< AI0867> shadowm: if you're on a wmltools run, I think I left some wmlscope directives in the khalifate
20131222 02:15:52< AI0867> the [race], that is
20131222 02:16:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 02:16:05< shadowm> AI0867: Oh, yeah, I forgot wmlscope existed.
20131222 02:16:19-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 02:16:21< shadowm> Probably because it's so useless for UMC.
20131222 02:16:32< fabi_> shadowm: Those are thunderstruck's.
20131222 02:17:27< shadowm> The utils-unused, images-unused, and all-unused target seem so pointless nowadays.
20131222 02:18:11< shadowm> Eh.
20131222 02:18:18< shadowm> "../../data/core/macros/schedules.cfg", line 6: more than one resource matching misc/schedule-dawn.png is visible here (../../data/core/images/themes/classic/misc/schedule-dawn.png, ../../data/core/images/misc/schedule-dawn.png).
20131222 02:18:34< AI0867> the TURNS_OVER_ADVANTAGE was written by me
20131222 02:18:38< shadowm> Ad nauseam. It doesn't sound like wmlscope is doing anything sane there.
20131222 02:18:58< shadowm> i.e. the game can tell the difference between both paths just fine.
20131222 02:19:16< happygrue> oh, shadowm:  I thought you were asking for an update of testing and double checking them ;)
20131222 02:19:36< happygrue> that is what should come tomorrow I hope
20131222 02:21:43< shadowm> fabi_: Weren't you going to relocate the files from data/core/images/themes/editor/classic before the release?
20131222 02:22:12< fabi_> yes, before the stable, not the next.
20131222 02:22:33< shadowm> fabi_: Uhm, feature freeze?
20131222 02:23:17< shadowm> We UMC people don't really like it when developers relocate files we need, so it'd be ideal if all that took place before the feature freeze.
20131222 02:24:01< fabi_> You umc people need sidebar.png?
20131222 02:24:10< shadowm> Granted, I only know of one add-on other than my own that uses theme WML.
20131222 02:24:16< shadowm> No, the top bar menu background.
20131222 02:25:19< fabi_> shadowm: Okay, I will do it now.
20131222 02:26:17< fabi_> shadowm: I do not know about the LoW wmllint issues. Thunderstruck mentioned they would be something that needs to get fixed in wmllint.
20131222 02:28:06< Coffee_irc> would it be useful to show on the mp lobby when you first start it up a message saying something like "type /help to see a list of commands"?
20131222 02:28:43< Coffee_irc> you often see on the lobby people asking how to sen a whisper message
20131222 02:28:55< Coffee_irc> *send
20131222 02:29:27< happygrue> it used to already say that IIRC
20131222 02:29:35< happygrue> if it doesn't then adding it back would be good
20131222 02:30:11-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20131222 02:30:28< Coffee_irc> happygrue: well it doesn't anymore
20131222 02:31:41< happygrue> I think that's just changed via admins using /motd command, so maybe it just isn't isn't a message of the day in the trunk server?
20131222 02:32:33< Coffee_irc> happygrue: I don't know where it is, but it isn't shown on 1.10 or trunk or local LAN
20131222 02:33:49-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20131222 02:35:01< happygrue> maybe Soliton changed it for some reason, he usually keeps the motd updated
20131222 02:35:10< happygrue> it's still there if they type /query
20131222 02:35:19-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 02:35:36< happygrue> but it isn't mentioned in a way that would be useful to "most people" I would guess
20131222 02:36:17< happygrue> but, I have to get to bed for now. nn
20131222 02:36:30< Coffee_irc> night
20131222 02:36:52-!- happygrue [~quassel@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 02:41:05< shadowm> fabi_: I deal with it in my campaign using # wmllint: validate-off and # wmllint: validate-on to exclude the first [side] definition from wmllint's ineffective snooping since I also use unit definition macros there.
20131222 02:41:25< shadowm> If you want I can add those all over LoW later.
20131222 02:41:57< fabi_> shadowm: Iirc that was the old solution. But thunderstruck introduced something else, I have never seen.
20131222 02:42:22< shadowm> The wmllint: who directive.
20131222 02:42:37< fabi_>        # wmllint: who {KALENZ} is Kalenz
20131222 02:42:39< fabi_> indeed
20131222 02:42:57< shadowm> I don't think that is intended to help with side validation checks, only unit id checks.
20131222 02:43:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 02:43:43< fabi_> shadowm: Maybe Thunderstruck called this fact the wmllint bug in need to be fixed.
20131222 02:45:03< shadowm> AI0867, whoever else is interested in this thing that doesn't really help anyone: http://pastebin.com/37x8cpmX
20131222 02:46:22< shadowm> Unless somebody went and broke mainline while I wasn't looking, the NEW_JOURNEY error spam suggests wmlscope itself is broken.
20131222 02:46:42-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 02:49:09< AI0867> looks like wmlscope tries to infer data types and frequently fails horribly
20131222 02:50:10< shadowm> That's because people haven't respected the macro argument naming rules wmlscope was intended to enforce?
20131222 02:50:52< shadowm> Not that I blame them.
20131222 02:50:58< AI0867> probably because nobody knows about them and nobody runs wmlscope
20131222 02:51:16< shadowm> Yep.
20131222 02:52:05-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20131222 02:52:12< shadowm> Although --typecheck is apparently a separate switch.
20131222 02:52:49< shadowm> The invocation for the 'unresolved' makefile target only passes --unresolved.
20131222 02:58:30-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20131222 03:11:41< AI0867> "../../data/core/editor/time-of-day.cfg", line 61: Unresolved reference -> TWO_SUNS_DEFAULT_SCHEDULE <-- this is a valid point though: the editor depends on UtBS
20131222 03:11:47< Coffee_irc> fabi_: http://pastebin.com/CBP9qsad
20131222 03:12:14< Coffee_irc> for double clicking to toggle the modifications menu entries for mp game creation
20131222 03:12:19-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:13:05-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 03:13:16< fabi_> AI0867: Most annoying, the testing scenario also depends on UtBS.
20131222 03:13:44< fabi_> AI0867: And HttT iirc.
20131222 03:13:48< shadowm> Oh!
20131222 03:14:17< shadowm> This means wesnoth-1.12-core on Debian will depend upon wesnoth-1.12-utbs, of all things-
20131222 03:14:28< fabi_> it should
20131222 03:14:31< fabi_> but doesn't
20131222 03:14:58< fabi_> I mean it already should since ages, because of the testing scenario.
20131222 03:14:58< shadowm> How about you make the inclusion conditional with #ifhave?
20131222 03:15:33< shadowm> Well, the test scenario isn't preprocessed unless you pass -t in the command line.
20131222 03:15:40< fabi_> I rather would like to move the after the fall schedule into core/macros/times.cfg
20131222 03:15:45< fabi_> or is it schedules.cfg
20131222 03:15:58< shadowm> So that means users have to explicitly break the game, whereas they aren't given that choice with the editor.
20131222 03:16:25< fabi_> The test scenario is annoying.
20131222 03:16:49< shadowm> Why? The whole point is that is basically doesn't exist unless required.
20131222 03:16:50< fabi_> Whenever I need an older version of wesnoth a simple apt-get install wesnoth-1.x-core isn't enough.
20131222 03:16:57< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 47e311ab9be7 / data/multiplayer/scenarios/ANL_utils/ (ANL_leader_options.cfg ANL_research_options.cfg): Fix some image references in ANL http://git.io/rXvuIg
20131222 03:16:59< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master c825dd0e727a / data/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/m051nw
20131222 03:17:10< AI0867> shadowm: wmlscope did something useful ^
20131222 03:17:35< shadowm> If you have git you could use e.g. git-new-workdir to have separate checkouts of tags.
20131222 03:17:51< shadowm> That's how I keep Wesnoth 1.11.0 through 1.11.7 around atm.
20131222 03:18:00< fabi_> shadowm: Using ifhave means that only installers of utbs can create after the fall scenarios in the editor.
20131222 03:18:20< AI0867> yes, that's an argument for moving the schedule to core
20131222 03:18:35< AI0867> but not having it in ifhave as it is now means only installers of utbs can use the editor
20131222 03:18:50< AI0867> because otherwise the preprocessor complains
20131222 03:19:17< shadowm> What happens when you #define a WML macro twice? I forgot.
20131222 03:21:16< shadowm> It seems the last instance clobbers the previous one.
20131222 03:21:39< shadowm> OK, I don't see any problems with moving it to core then.
20131222 03:21:43< fabi_> AI0867: Yes. I see the problem.
20131222 03:22:54< fabi_> But I will use #ifhave for making the test scenario run without utbs.
20131222 03:23:12< fabi_> And iirc the tuturial also depends on HttT.
20131222 03:23:22< shadowm> No, it doesn't.
20131222 03:23:28< fabi_> okay
20131222 03:24:03< shadowm> The few HttT assets used by the tutorial are provided in it as copies.
20131222 03:24:09< fabi_> I need to find out why I had to install HttT then.
20131222 03:24:57< shadowm> Perhaps an older version did? fgrep -RI Heir_To_The_Throne data/campaigns/tutorial/ gives nothing.
20131222 03:25:27< shadowm> Anyway, the only reason AFAIR the test scenario depends upon UtBS is because someone decided to turn the test leader into a walking test case of cascading AMLAs.
20131222 03:26:44-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 03:27:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:27:53< fabi_> shadowm: Wasn't that you`
20131222 03:27:55< fabi_> ?
20131222 03:28:30< shadowm> No idea, let's ask git.
20131222 03:29:02< shadowm> Nah, it wasn't me. See 34d48bd251d7d98ee0579dd98380705bceb596d7 .
20131222 03:30:42< fabi_> wesbot: show #34d48bd251d7d98ee0579dd98380705bceb596d7
20131222 03:32:21< AI0867> I don't think it can do that yet
20131222 03:32:25< AI0867> shikadibot: log 34d48bd251d7d98ee0579dd98380
20131222 03:32:26< shikadibot> AI0867: Revision 34d48bd251d7 (Gunter Labes) on Sun Mar 15 17:04:25 2009:
20131222 03:32:29< shikadibot> AI0867: Simplified Kaleh's AMLAs to have consistent requirements and effects.
20131222 03:32:32< shikadibot> AI0867: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/34d48bd251d7
20131222 03:36:50< fabi_> hmmm
20131222 03:37:17< fabi_> I am searching for a directory name for the after the fall images.
20131222 03:37:19< fabi_> tod images
20131222 03:37:46< fabi_> core/images/misc/schedules/after_the_fall?
20131222 03:39:09< shadowm> Most image dirs use hyphen minuses, not underscores.
20131222 03:40:10< fabi_> The hyphen minus is just the minus from the number block?
20131222 03:41:49< fabi_> Is it okay to move the default schedule images to the new schedule folder as well?
20131222 03:42:03< fabi_> I guess most UMC coders use the macros to address them.
20131222 03:42:33< AI0867> fabi_: "../../data/themes/unit_box.cfg", line 325: Unresolved reference -> themes/status-bg.png <-- this also seems to be a valid complaint
20131222 03:42:55< fabi_> ah yes
20131222 03:43:17< AI0867> widescreen has another couple images it's missing
20131222 03:43:18< fabi_> I should remove the unit_box theme from a stable release.
20131222 03:43:34-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20131222 03:43:46< fabi_> And widescreen as well.
20131222 03:45:51< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 9571e899d427 / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/units/Horse_Archer.cfg: Fix unit image reference http://git.io/lw93Xw
20131222 03:46:13-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 03:46:27-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:47:02< irker935> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 49c06cc94321 / data/campaigns/The_South_Guard/scenarios/03_A_Desparate_Errand.cfg: Fix a unit image reference http://git.io/Irt8Xg
20131222 03:47:51< shadowm> fabi_: It might be necessary to add a wmllint rule for that. Think of variants over the default schedule with different lighting or bonuses or names.
20131222 03:48:17< shadowm> Not everyone knows how to use the [+tag] syntax.
20131222 03:48:29< AI0867> wmlscope goes absolutely crazy when it encounters the new animation syntax
20131222 03:49:34< AI0867> and I think that's all the sane output of wmlscope dealt with
20131222 03:49:36< shadowm> (Not everyone knows how to use wmllint either, but our contract only specifies adding wmllint rules.)
20131222 03:49:51< AI0867> the rest is just complaints about people not formatting their WML the way it wants them to
20131222 03:50:07< Coffee_irc> AI0867: that's on my todo list, maybe after the feature freeze?
20131222 03:50:14< AI0867> Coffee_irc: what?
20131222 03:50:24< AI0867> the wmltools are exempt from the feature freeze
20131222 03:50:28< AI0867> as they're not part of the game
20131222 03:50:46< Coffee_irc> AI0867: the wmltool parsing of the animation syntax
20131222 03:50:51< AI0867> right
20131222 03:51:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 03:51:32-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:51:43< Coffee_irc> it will take a bit to get it right I think
20131222 03:52:04< Coffee_irc> but I've got some time off coming up
20131222 03:53:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 03:54:01< fabi_> shadowm: Sorry, I do not understand quite right. 
20131222 03:54:04< Coffee_irc> before it was okay with the syntax, but didn't show where the images don't exist IIRC
20131222 03:54:23< fabi_> shadowm: A wmllint rule for what exactly?
20131222 03:54:36< fabi_> shadowm: Updating the schedule image pathes?
20131222 03:55:31< shadowm> Paths, yet.
20131222 03:55:49< shadowm> I mean yes.
20131222 03:55:57< fabi_> hmmm
20131222 03:56:01< fabi_> Is that hard?
20131222 03:56:14< shadowm> They are just tuples. See wmllint line 574.
20131222 03:56:18< fabi_> I never had a deeper lock into wmllint or any python.
20131222 03:56:33-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:56:39-!- Alarantalara [~Adium@192-0-128-11.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
20131222 03:56:43< shadowm> Not all wmllint substitutions are that trivial.
20131222 03:57:01< fabi_> The alternative is to just dumb the images to the misc directory.
20131222 03:57:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f3b789.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:57:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f3b789.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]
20131222 03:57:26-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 03:57:31< fabi_> or have two locations with schedule images
20131222 04:01:11-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 04:01:26-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20131222 04:11:21-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 04:11:35-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 04:11:51< Coffee_irc> fabi_: if you've got a sec http://pastebin.com/j8yzbgqd and http://pastebin.com/CBP9qsad
20131222 04:12:13< Coffee_irc> these will enable double click in the advanced preferences and modifications mp create area
20131222 04:13:15< fabi_> Coffee_irc: Have you considered that not all advanced preferences are binary?
20131222 04:13:23< Coffee_irc> yes
20131222 04:13:36< fabi_> What happens in that case?
20131222 04:13:36< Coffee_irc> hat is why the check is there to see if the current config is a boolean
20131222 04:13:40< Coffee_irc> nothing
20131222 04:13:52< Coffee_irc> as now if it is a slider
20131222 04:13:54< fabi_> nothing == no sound?
20131222 04:14:00< Coffee_irc> well...
20131222 04:14:04< fabi_> :-)
20131222 04:14:09< Coffee_irc> you still get a nice sound for your effort
20131222 04:14:31< fabi_> it would be okay if it was a different one.
20131222 04:15:11< Coffee_irc> fabi_: the sound on double click is more of an internal thing with the gui code
20131222 04:15:18< Coffee_irc> I suppose you know that already
20131222 04:16:10< fabi_> yeah
20131222 04:16:32< Coffee_irc> I don't think there is much that can be done about non-bool items
20131222 04:19:55< fabi_> yes
20131222 04:23:09< Coffee_irc> fabi_: do you think that is good to push?
20131222 04:23:35< fabi_> both seem to be rather trivial
20131222 04:23:58< Coffee_irc> well, yeah, but players nottice these little things 
20131222 04:24:25< fabi_> Well, yes.
20131222 04:24:37< Coffee_irc> and you've been working on this area, so I thought it would be good to ask you to check it out first
20131222 04:24:59< fabi_> I meant the coding is rather trivial which means the commit seems okay for me.
20131222 04:25:22< fabi_> I just think about some border cases where it might cause problems.
20131222 04:25:32< fabi_> But I can't find any.
20131222 04:27:24< Turuk> fabi: I have the list for terrains complete, I will be posting it tomorrow
20131222 04:28:35< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 818ffad09805 / / (4 files in 2 dirs): allow advanced preference booleans and mp modifications double click toggle. http://git.io/F7tmCw
20131222 04:30:21-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 04:30:25< shadowm> Uhm.
20131222 04:30:36-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 04:30:38 * shadowm tries to remember when he was asked about this.
20131222 04:31:15< Coffee_irc> ./we
20131222 04:31:26< Coffee_irc> *sorry wrong input
20131222 04:31:53< fabi_> Turuk: Cool, if we are going into freeze like planed, there is no chance to get any results from this effort anymore.
20131222 04:32:13< Turuk> The results could still be obtained and put in at a later date
20131222 04:32:34< fabi_> Maybe into the 1.12.1 release.
20131222 04:33:02< fabi_> The current terrain help is a little to empty in most cases for my taste.
20131222 04:33:13< fabi_> To be part of 1.12
20131222 04:33:46-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo210231.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 04:33:46< fabi_> Maybe I just display the text of the base terrains for now.
20131222 04:34:47-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 04:39:03-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20131222 04:39:12< fabi_> shadowm: What if I want to replace only the string before a image path function call?
20131222 04:44:48-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 04:45:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 04:47:14< shadowm> fabi_: Example?
20131222 04:50:21-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 04:52:33< fabi_>       image=misc/tod-schedule-24hrs.png~CROP(0,195,125,39)
20131222 04:52:38< fabi_> shadowm: ^
20131222 04:53:47< fabi_> needs to be transformed into       image=misc/time-schedules/tod-schedule-24hrs.png~CROP(0,195,125,39)
20131222 04:53:48< shadowm> I believe what wmllint does there is a simple substring match, so shouldn't matter where in the line the original string is.
20131222 04:53:59< fabi_> okay
20131222 04:54:31-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:14:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 05:14:30-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:20:09-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 05:20:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:26:12-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-97-101.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20131222 05:30:13-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-18-143.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:34:00-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 05:34:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:35:27< Coffee_irc> anyone object if I add a help link to the right side panel 'traits'?
20131222 05:40:28-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:41:35< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 814486696aed / src/reports.cpp: Add help link to side panel traits label http://git.io/l9wcCw
20131222 05:41:38-!- mattsc [~mattsc@154.20.32.246] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20131222 05:43:42-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 05:43:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 05:53:01-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20131222 05:58:03< fabi_> Coffee_irc: cool
20131222 06:02:05< Coffee_irc> ah, the traits for female units need a different string
20131222 06:02:18< Coffee_irc> maybe that's why it wasn't doene before
20131222 06:06:10< fabi_> oh
20131222 06:06:38< Coffee_irc> yeah, it looks for "female^trait"
20131222 06:07:00< fabi_> hmmm
20131222 06:07:05< fabi_> is that an id?
20131222 06:07:16< Coffee_irc> base_name.str()
20131222 06:08:14< fabi_> Let's ask the other way around. There are different help topics for the genders?
20131222 06:08:20< Coffee_irc> no
20131222 06:08:25< fabi_> okay
20131222 06:08:26< Coffee_irc> I think using the id will work
20131222 06:08:43< fabi_> going by id is surely the better way
20131222 06:13:28 * fabi_ wonders if .thumbs.db isn't better added into the toplevel .gitignore instead a file in each image dir.
20131222 06:15:17-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 06:15:34-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:16:55< shadowm> The subdir .gitignore files are an artifact of the original svn-to-git conversion and they definitely constitute a suboptimal mess. I had intended to merge most of them into the top-level .gitignore some time ago, but I guess I found a better use for my time shortly afterwards...
20131222 06:17:57< shadowm> (There was even a .gitignore that was a whole orphaned code file because someone originally set the svn:ignore property of some directory to the contents of a file by accident.)
20131222 06:21:06< fabi_> okay, I will add .thumbs.db to the global one and delete some of the obsolete .gitignores.
20131222 06:21:24< fabi_> Radio Rivendel just plays Traveling Ministels
20131222 06:21:42-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:22:06< fabi_> Which was confusing for the first few seconds.
20131222 06:22:33< fabi_> I wondered why suddenly the ingame sounds seemed to be activated. 
20131222 06:22:56-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:27:31-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20131222 06:29:44< irker935> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 54e23514f12f / src/reports.cpp: Use trait ids for trait help link to avoid issue with ^female strings. http://git.io/AO7rdA
20131222 06:31:43-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 06:31:58-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:32:24< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 270919759415 / data/ (59 files in 12 dirs): Refactored the time of day schedule related images and macros. http://git.io/RfRFcw
20131222 06:35:08< fabi_> AI0867, shadowm: debian dependency problem should be solved^
20131222 06:36:06< fabi_> shadowm: It was a good idea to update wmllint. That helped me a lot to catch all occurrences.
20131222 06:36:37< fabi_> Without grep orgy.
20131222 06:39:24-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 06:39:39-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:43:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 06:44:39-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:49:26-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20131222 06:56:26-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 06:56:37-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-18-143.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20131222 06:56:43-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 06:59:36-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 07:01:43-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 07:01:52-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 07:06:34< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 25a225f3637f / .gitignore: Global .gitignore rule for "Thumbs.db". http://git.io/dV_rzQ
20131222 07:06:36< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 99a7e282fa0a / data/scenario-test.cfg: The test scenario no longer depends on wesnoth-utbs package installed. http://git.io/LTQcSg
20131222 07:08:29< fabi_> shadowm: You are finished with themes/default.cfg?
20131222 07:24:11< shadowm> Yes.
20131222 07:26:53-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@c-71-193-56-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 07:30:03-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 07:30:16-!- horon [~horon@nttkyo210231.tkyo.nt.ngn2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
20131222 07:41:06< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 5ae5fb1f1705 / data/core/images/themes/classic/ (menubar.png minimap-800.png sidebar.png): Moved images used by both, default and editor theme. http://git.io/XkScKw
20131222 07:43:45< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 6857b12767bb / data/core/images/themes/editor/classic/ (menubar.png minimap-800.png sidebar.png): Delete theme images, should have happened in the last commit... http://git.io/cj0R3g
20131222 07:43:47< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 4fd640479ee3 / data/themes/ (default.cfg editor.cfg): Update the theme config files to new image paths. http://git.io/WCielw
20131222 07:43:57-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 07:44:09< fabi_> hi boucman
20131222 07:44:18< boucman> hey
20131222 07:55:11-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 07:55:28-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 08:02:19-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 08:02:38-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 08:11:09-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 08:14:36-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 08:15:27-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20131222 08:18:37< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 0621fde09888 / data/core/team-colors.cfg: New and better color definitions for the semantic minimap display. http://git.io/DP6mIQ
20131222 08:31:50< fabi_> AI0867: The "d" for description works here.
20131222 08:39:42-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 08:39:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 08:40:54-!- timotei__ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 08:42:05< fabi_> AI0867: No "Heroes + Khalifate"?
20131222 08:43:02-!- timotei_ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20131222 09:00:13-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@2a01:e34:ee82:47e0:21e:c2ff:fe01:261f] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:00:53< LordBob_> fabi_: ping ?
20131222 09:01:02< fabi_> LordBob_: hi
20131222 09:01:10< fabi_> LordBob_: Just tried your new map colors
20131222 09:01:20< LordBob_> ah, yes, I've just seen your post
20131222 09:01:36< fabi_> It is okay now
20131222 09:01:50< fabi_> I call the minmap no more ugly in semantic mode :-)
20131222 09:01:55< LordBob_> :D
20131222 09:02:30< LordBob_> Yup. i gave it a try yesterday, and even the mixed colors for mix terrain work decently now
20131222 09:02:40< fabi_> Maybe there is some more room for improvement (the hill terrain is quite different to the color of it's icon image) but it is okay for today's release.
20131222 09:03:27< fabi_> Hills are brown on the map but the icon is ogger colored.
20131222 09:04:11< shadowm>  create mode 100644 data/core/images/misc/time-schedules/default/schedule-dawn.png
20131222 09:04:23< LordBob_> yes, I might have shifted some hues
20131222 09:04:26< shadowm> I doubt anyone would miss the "schedule-" part of the file name.
20131222 09:04:29< fabi_> ochre
20131222 09:04:51< LordBob_> ah, right. thought that was what you mean ^^
20131222 09:06:08< LordBob_> As you say, adjustments can be made later, and by pretty much anyone willing now that it's only a matter of file config
20131222 09:07:10< LordBob_> fabi_: By the way, how is this for icons ?
20131222 09:07:12< LordBob_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq9hzt5a6jpd8pw/Untitled-2.jpg
20131222 09:07:14< shadowm> Also, when I choose New Scenario in the editor, I'm presented with a dialog with a caption of "New Map". It's kind of confusing since it's not unusual for me to accidentally click on the wrong menu item.
20131222 09:08:05< shadowm> Hm. Is the editor minimap missing its borders?
20131222 09:08:14< LordBob_> The top one is for the semantic display switch
20131222 09:08:19< fabi_> shadowm: Yes, modifying the dialog accordingly is on my TODO.
20131222 09:08:58< fabi_> shadowm: The minimap of the editor is not adjusted to the new artwork yet. I wanted to do that in the next few minutes.
20131222 09:09:01< LordBob_> The bottom two are tentative icons for the unit color coding 
20131222 09:10:00< shadowm> OK, I won't be around later -- in case the release will take place today. glhf.
20131222 09:11:05< fabi_> LordBob_: Currently the editor still features the old minimap buttons. I am going to replace them together with adjusting the artwork.
20131222 09:13:35< LordBob_> fabi_: I see that the artwork is bogus indeed. Do you need me to do anything about it ?
20131222 09:14:08< fabi_> LordBob_: I have worked with Jetrel on the new default theme.
20131222 09:14:20< LordBob_> fabi_: oh, that's good news :)
20131222 09:14:28< fabi_> LordBob_: We agreed that making the minimap as big as possible is a good idea.
20131222 09:15:03< LordBob_> Agreed
20131222 09:15:03< fabi_> LordBob_: Thus we now have the buttons below it, using all the available horizontal space.
20131222 09:15:23 * Jetrel pokes his head over the fence
20131222 09:15:37< fabi_> LordBob_: But Jetrel made a mistake with the ratio. I think he did not consider the space consumed by the slider.
20131222 09:15:39< LordBob_> Hello there
20131222 09:15:44< fabi_> hi Jetrel
20131222 09:16:02< Jetrel> Yeah, feel free to tweak it however you want. :)
20131222 09:16:33< LordBob_> Speaking of default theme, I'm planning to do the End Turn button next
20131222 09:16:57< Jetrel> Oh nice.
20131222 09:17:05< fabi_> LordBob_: Let's fix the minimap first. That gives me more time to fix the theme. 
20131222 09:17:17< Jetrel> Yeah, people had requested a "giant size" button for that which would be really visible
20131222 09:17:20< fabi_> Ivanovic wants to do a release today.
20131222 09:17:31< LordBob_> But I don't remember if I can or can't use all the horizontal space in the sidebar, or if it varies with screen resolution (in which case I'll stick to the existing)
20131222 09:17:56< fabi_> Jetrel: I think the size of the new button you made and its appearance is fine. It just does no longer match the rest of our buttons, style wise.
20131222 09:19:07< LordBob_> Well, if need be we can make it even more visible by making the button itself wider and adding tons of gold inlay stuff on the sides
20131222 09:19:18< fabi_> :-)
20131222 09:19:34< fabi_> Making it big is fine
20131222 09:19:53< LordBob_> I don't promise not to get carried away with the gold, though :p
20131222 09:19:54< fabi_> I mean using more horizontal space should be no problem.
20131222 09:21:44< fabi_> LordBob_: Shall we talk about the minimap now?
20131222 09:22:04< LordBob_> Let's make it short and to the point, then, because I can barely cramp in half an hour or so before I need to pack and hop on the road
20131222 09:22:18< LordBob_> So we'll have to choose what goes in today's release
20131222 09:22:29< LordBob_> I think minimap artwork and buttons would be a must
20131222 09:22:37< fabi_> Okay, I was under the impression that you have more time on your hands, in your vacation.
20131222 09:23:15< fabi_> Then let's keep the minimap, it is usable in the current state.
20131222 09:23:19< LordBob_> I do. Just not today, because we're traveling to meet with family
20131222 09:23:40< fabi_> Let's also keep the end turn button.
20131222 09:24:12< fabi_> The minimap button icons are the most important issue right now.
20131222 09:24:36< LordBob_> ok. What do you think of the ones I posted just before ?
20131222 09:24:44< fabi_> minimap and end turn can follow later.
20131222 09:24:52-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 09:24:53< fabi_> Let me have a look.
20131222 09:25:09-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:25:49< LordBob_> (translating the "unit color coding" into an icon is giving me a hard time, to be honest)
20131222 09:27:25< fabi_> LordBob_: Sorry, can't find where you posted the icons. Please give me a link.
20131222 09:27:50< LordBob_> Oh. It was a dropbox link
20131222 09:28:01< LordBob_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gq9hzt5a6jpd8pw/Untitled-2.jpg
20131222 09:28:23< LordBob_> The top one is for the semantic display, and I think it works fine
20131222 09:28:40< fabi_> okay
20131222 09:28:51< fabi_> the last is unit/village color coding
20131222 09:28:58< LordBob_> The bottom two are tentative unit color coding, but I'm not sure they work (I'd go with the color swatches, if any)
20131222 09:29:05< LordBob_> yup
20131222 09:29:58-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 09:30:05< LordBob_> As for toggle village / toggle terrain and toggle units, I'm thinking that reusing the editor icons as you did works just fine
20131222 09:30:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:30:36< LordBob_> Unless of course you'd want them to be different so that those same buttons can appear in the editor
20131222 09:30:59< fabi_> Well, at least the grid and terrain should be different.
20131222 09:31:15< LordBob_> Ok, I'll do this one as well
20131222 09:31:20< fabi_> village and unit are fine because they refer to the same thing
20131222 09:31:37< fabi_> I think the grid one could be the same icon but not ausgemalt.
20131222 09:32:07< fabi_> not envisioned
20131222 09:32:33< fabi_> Just the border
20131222 09:32:38< LordBob_> How about reusing the icon currently associated to "single hex brush" ?
20131222 09:32:41-!- stikonas [~gentoo@5.20.200.50] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:32:41-!- stikonas [~gentoo@5.20.200.50] has quit [Changing host]
20131222 09:32:41-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:32:43< LordBob_> It's precisely that
20131222 09:33:11< fabi_> ah yes
20131222 09:34:04< LordBob_> Additionnaly, I can add a tiny eye or something so that the icons are clearly different in the editor
20131222 09:34:14< fabi_> We do not need to put in the final versions today.
20131222 09:34:34< fabi_> But we need some working icons because the current release will be the first beta.
20131222 09:35:28< LordBob_> Ok. I'll do these three and commit them immediately
20131222 09:37:33< fabi_> Thank you very much :-)
20131222 09:43:05-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@c-71-193-56-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 09:53:14< irker935> wesnoth: Emilien Rotival wesnoth-old:master 5cf5f8d6e035 / images/icons/action/ (9 files): Icons for the new minimal display functions http://git.io/8iYpaQ
20131222 09:53:30< LordBob_> fabi_: ^
20131222 09:53:39< fabi_> :-)
20131222 09:54:08< LordBob_> oups. That commit description should have been "new minimaP display functions"
20131222 09:54:32< LordBob_> is there anyway I can fix it ?
20131222 09:55:51-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20131222 09:56:50< LordBob_> I'll be going now. I won't have internet access until tomorrow evening, but if everything goes as planned I'll have a new endturn button ready by then
20131222 09:57:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 09:57:41-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 09:57:52< LordBob_> On a side news, Ivanovic, if you're reading this, I've confirmed my booking for FOSDEM
20131222 09:57:58< LordBob_> See you later, guys
20131222 09:58:14-!- LordBob_ [~LordBob_@2a01:e34:ee82:47e0:21e:c2ff:fe01:261f] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20131222 09:59:11-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 10:00:58-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-71-38.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 10:03:55-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20131222 10:06:18-!- ancestral [~ancestral@71-215-198-123.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: End Transmission.]
20131222 10:18:44-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 10:22:57< zookeeper> < happygrue> liminal change needs to be updated in them and probably a few other tidbits
20131222 10:23:02< zookeeper> wait what do they still use liminal? D:
20131222 10:33:22< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 3d6734bddccb / src/editor/editor_controller.cpp: Make the new minimap button actions work in the editor. http://git.io/VHoyUw
20131222 10:33:24< irker935> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master b4ad6c28234a / data/themes/editor.cfg: Fix the editor theme layout to match the new minimap frame image. http://git.io/Y7XHDQ
20131222 10:34:53-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f049077103.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 10:56:17-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 10:56:33-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 11:32:02-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 11:35:39-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 11:37:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 11:37:42-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 11:39:39-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-71-38.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 11:47:22-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 11:52:26-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20131222 11:52:48-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 11:53:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 12:27:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 12:27:42-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 12:32:31-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 12:32:45-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 12:38:58-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 12:42:49-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:03:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 13:03:27-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:06:28-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@149.254.182.223] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:16:36< thunderstruck>  shadowm> thunderstruck: Didn't you and lipkab work on improving MP campaigns support for this release again? RELEASE_NOTES needs more love.
20131222 13:16:54< thunderstruck> I don't think I've added any features which would be worth to mention in RELEASE_NOTES.
20131222 13:17:09-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 13:17:41< thunderstruck> fabi_: I've seen that you mentioned my name a few times when talking about wmllint issues.
20131222 13:18:15< thunderstruck> Just in case, I'm telling you that I don't know more about that than you do.
20131222 13:26:20-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 13:26:37-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:30:51-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 13:31:37-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:33:26-!- Kostic [~marko@net138-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:35:42-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:35:57-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 13:36:38-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 13:36:39-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@149.254.182.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 13:40:37-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20131222 13:46:09-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 14:09:28-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20131222 14:09:53-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 14:39:07-!- timotei_ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 14:41:41-!- timotei__ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20131222 14:43:45-!- MaraJade [goossenm@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20131222 14:46:57-!- mattsc [~mattsc@154.20.32.246] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 14:54:19-!- irker935 [~irker@ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20131222 14:55:45-!- irker883 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 14:55:45< irker883> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 69f3e645f488 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/08_Silent_Forest.cfg: Revert "SotBE S8: avoid duplicating a message" http://git.io/89__4w
20131222 14:56:48< mattsc> ^ It's that translation thing again ...  (but at least I noticed it myself this time)
20131222 14:57:07-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 14:57:23-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:05:34-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 15:05:48-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:13:17< irker883> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 5a3ac4ccc343 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Xcode project update http://git.io/vkt5oA
20131222 15:23:39-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:28:05-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20131222 15:32:47-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc1-finc14-2-0-cust12.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: DCW]
20131222 15:35:03< AI0867> fabi_: there was no AoH faction in the era, and I mostly just translated stuff from add-on to mainline
20131222 15:35:16< AI0867> also, khalifate is probably far better balanced than AoH anyway
20131222 15:38:02< AI0867> 09:31 < fabi_> AI0867: The "d" for description works here. <-- it doesn't for me, and I've reset the hotkeys to default several times now
20131222 15:38:16< AI0867> also, I can't find the hotkey in the hotkeys preferences
20131222 15:44:42-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:48:44-!- asoiufg [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:49:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.136.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20131222 15:49:27-!- {V} [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20131222 15:49:37-!- asoiufg is now known as {V}
20131222 15:50:24-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 15:56:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 15:57:10-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:04:57< AI0867> wesbot: seen mordante
20131222 16:04:58< wesbot> AI0867: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 6d 19h ago.  6d 19h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20131222 16:10:21< irker883> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master affd1ca9b6ca / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/maps/ (04a_An_Elven_Alliance.map 05_Northern_Outpost.map): Updated maps for EI S4a and S5 http://git.io/1f0KBg
20131222 16:10:24< irker883> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 1c2359509482 / changelog players_changelog: updated changelog http://git.io/-t_bWQ
20131222 16:17:18-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@host86-182-24-217.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:22:13-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 16:22:28-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:23:50-!- rjaguar3 [~rjaguar3@c-67-175-80-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:25:40< AI0867> thunderstruck: in 597f5ad6, the line init_level_changed(levels_menu_.selection()); may pass -1 to a function that takes size_t
20131222 16:25:46< AI0867> coverity pointed this out
20131222 16:29:39-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 16:29:54-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:32:34< irker883> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 6b0acc4c3415 / src/mouse_handler_base.cpp: Initialize two variables http://git.io/cNpBCg
20131222 16:32:36< irker883> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 43d77e68e8ca / src/display.cpp: Initialize a pointer http://git.io/THsW3Q
20131222 16:32:38< irker883> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 22ecfc29f762 / / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/97R95A
20131222 16:35:42< thunderstruck> AI0867: Thanks. I'll fix it soon.
20131222 16:36:20< shadowm> lipkab: What email client do you use?
20131222 16:36:33< shadowm> (Yes, I realize I said I wouldn't be around and yet I actually am.)
20131222 16:37:22< zookeeper> mattsc, btw, one thing i haven't mention WRT scenarios that could use some serious AI work: "a new land" in TRoW.
20131222 16:37:29< zookeeper> just saying since otherwise i'd forget
20131222 16:38:24< zookeeper> it's an essentially broken scenario (just one that you can't get stuck on), and always has been
20131222 16:39:21< AI0867> if anyone else wants access to coverity, register on scan.coverity.com and poke me
20131222 16:39:21-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:40:17 * thunderstruck pokes AI0867 
20131222 16:40:21< AI0867> okay
20131222 16:40:38< thunderstruck> I signed up with my github account.
20131222 16:41:35< lipkab> shadowm: Zoho's web interface.
20131222 16:42:30< shadowm> AI0867: Poke too.
20131222 16:42:41< shadowm> Also with my GitHub account.
20131222 16:43:02< thunderstruck> shadowm: It's probably easier if you'd ask for request.
20131222 16:43:09< thunderstruck> in that webpage.
20131222 16:43:15< shadowm> Is "Wesnoth" the correct project?
20131222 16:43:20-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 16:43:36< shadowm> Well, the repository URL is correct at least.
20131222 16:44:32< AI0867> <AI0867> I think you can just ask to join the project, but I'm not sure
20131222 16:44:40< AI0867> <AI0867> as in, go here: https://scan.coverity.com/projects and click "add me to project"
20131222 16:44:45< shadowm> My application has to be reviewed by an owner.
20131222 16:44:55< AI0867> done
20131222 16:48:17< irker883> wesnoth: Andrius Silinskas wesnoth-old:master 87ddb7eb67cd / src/multiplayer_create.cpp: Added missing check for negative number where size_t is expected. http://git.io/1cAtAw
20131222 16:59:49-!- prkc [~negusnyul@catv-188-142-168-46.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 17:08:24< shadowm> Uhm.
20131222 17:08:33< shadowm> display::overlays_ is never initialized?
20131222 17:08:48< AI0867> replace_overlays
20131222 17:09:01< AI0867> which is called by editor display and game display
20131222 17:09:26< AI0867> and they use it to store a pointer to their own overlays structure
20131222 17:09:41< shadowm> typedef std::multimap<map_location, overlay> overlay_map;
20131222 17:09:44< AI0867> the design is a bit weird, but it seems to work
20131222 17:09:49< AI0867> and there's duplicate typedefs
20131222 17:09:50< shadowm> Why the need to keep it around as a pointer in the first place?
20131222 17:09:57< AI0867> to replace it? I don't know
20131222 17:10:05< AI0867> ask fabi_ 
20131222 17:10:40< shadowm> http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/map/multimap/swap/
20131222 17:11:19< shadowm> Granted, perhaps it's really necessary to manually manage its memory for some other reason.
20131222 17:11:47-!- Kostic [~marko@net138-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20131222 17:11:51-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 17:13:25< thunderstruck> shadowm: I'd suggest cppreference.com as an alternative to cplusplus.com
20131222 17:13:50< shadowm> AI0867: Ah, you committed a fix earlier, right.
20131222 17:14:04< shadowm> For the field's initial uninitializedness.
20131222 17:14:12< thunderstruck> It seems to be a better reference for C++. I've found some false information cplusplus.com a couple of times.
20131222 17:14:20< thunderstruck> on cplusplus.com*
20131222 17:16:21-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 17:18:06-!- MaraJade [goossenm@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 17:19:35< mattsc> zookeeper: it's been a while since I played that scenario, but I think I remember it not working very well.  What kind of behavior would you like for the AIs here (ideally speaking, I can worry about practical implications)?
20131222 17:26:13< thunderstruck> happygrue: When do you think bug #21214 must be fixed at latest?
20131222 17:27:14< shadowm> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=564578#p564578  Points 5 and 6 regarding MP map descriptions seem valid to me.
20131222 17:28:32< lipkab> WTH 1152x864 screen.
20131222 17:29:27< shadowm> I don't know how that is possible outside of a VM environment.
20131222 17:29:50< shadowm> Perhaps some unusual form factor device.
20131222 17:30:07-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 17:30:23-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 17:33:54< irker883> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master d8993137d718 / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: CodeBlocks project update http://git.io/mZ73fQ
20131222 17:38:03< zookeeper> mattsc, i'm not even sure... i don't think the current premise (the objective is to try to avoid combat for as long as possible) is really feasible in a sensible manner.
20131222 17:39:21< zookeeper> there's just no way for the player to be able to predict when the enemy wants to attack, and if they can't predict that, there's pretty much nothing else to it than abusing the AI if possible
20131222 17:42:06< zookeeper> maybe the scenario would instead end when the first death occurs, but i haven't thought about that enough to tell whether it'd work much better or not
20131222 17:42:36< mattsc> zookeeper: okay, I'll check out the scenario again and see if I come up with any ideas.
20131222 17:43:19< zookeeper> if needed, the map can of course be changed so you don't start crammed in a corner
20131222 17:43:47< mattsc> I'll keep that in mind.
20131222 17:46:19< zookeeper> i guess that as long as the basic idea of having to play pacifist in some form is kept, anything is up for consideration
20131222 17:46:32< happygrue> thunderstruck: if I understand the process correctly, feature freeze will happen *soon*, then we have a week for bug fixes and translation before release?
20131222 17:46:38< happygrue> so let's say, a bit more than a week?
20131222 17:48:03< shadowm> Feature freeze + first beta release -> next beta release -> repeat last step as many times as necessary -> 1.12 RC release -> repeat last step as many times as necessary -> 1.12.0.
20131222 17:50:07-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 17:50:21-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 17:50:32< zookeeper> mattsc, thinking out loud: if the elves and dwarves were gradually getting more and more income and were certain to overwhelm you at some point, _and_ they'd never do a suicide attack, then i suppose the "prevent deaths for as long as possible" could work just fine.
20131222 17:51:04< zookeeper> they have to be able to overwhelm you completely to avoid the possibility of stalling them indefinitely with a good defensive line with healers
20131222 17:51:31< shadowm> I got this bullcrap only because I attempted to switch to fullscreen last time I ran Wesnoth and it failed: http://pastebin.com/WmsvHQkW
20131222 17:51:55< shadowm> Now it won't run unless I set fullscreen to no in the preferences file myself I guess.
20131222 17:52:10< shadowm> Do we have a bug filed for this nonsense?
20131222 17:54:31-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 17:54:54< mattsc> zookeeper: okay.  I'll have a look at things later today.  I need to remind myself of the story background and exactly how the scenario works.  Right now I have to be off for a while, but I'll stay logged in an check for comments when I get back.
20131222 17:55:20-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 18:10:50< shadowm> OK, the display resolution preferences code is horribly designed.
20131222 18:12:36< shadowm> It sets the preference values before even checking it's not breaking anything.
20131222 18:25:59-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 18:26:18-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 18:49:33-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 18:49:49-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 18:50:05-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20131222 18:59:04-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 18:59:58-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 19:05:15-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20131222 19:29:49-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 19:30:04-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 19:39:07< mattsc> zookeeper: I haven't really looked into this in detail yet, but what's the intention of 'A New Land'?  As in, where's the "reward" for avoiding confrontation?  As I can see it, you might as well rush out with your fastest unit, attack an enemy and get it over with.  There doesn't seem to be a difference in the outcome even if we made the AI work.
20131222 19:39:18< zookeeper> mattsc, well, i can save you some trouble; the story background is simply that haldric and co land on the new continent, and the elves and dwarves think they're being invaded, so ... uh, nice timing
20131222 19:39:26< mattsc> :)
20131222 19:40:30< zookeeper> yeah currently there's no reward at all i think. in the reworked version the reward could be primarily XP (if the scenario ends on a kill rather than on the first combat, that is)
20131222 19:40:38< zookeeper> or a late finish carryover bonus of some sort
20131222 19:40:40-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 19:42:50< zookeeper> some of the following scenarios can be pretty tough so it might be nice to be able to farm some XP there. i wouldn't even worry about the player being able to potentially get a huge pile of levelups there too much, since in the later scenarios you're limited by gold anyway rather than the amount of high-level units you got available
20131222 19:43:26 * zookeeper slaps himself
20131222 19:43:43< zookeeper> no, you couldn't get a huge pile of XP obviously, since you don't get a huge pile of XP from combat without any kills :p
20131222 19:43:52< mattsc> :)
20131222 19:45:25< mattsc> zookeeper: I just checked my recall list from my last playthrough (on normal) and I came into this scenario with 16 L3s and 1 L4.
20131222 19:45:40< mattsc> So no, I wouldn't really care much about a few XP.
20131222 19:46:38< zookeeper> sure, unless you were missing some key units you wanted to get
20131222 19:47:35-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 19:47:41< mattsc> True - on the other hand my attitude is usually that, if my success in a scenario hinges on an individual unit (other than those that have to survive), I am doing something wrong.
20131222 19:47:49< zookeeper> anyway, the scenario could just be a regular "survive until end of turns" deal, but if possible it'd be nice to have a twist to it
20131222 19:47:52-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 19:48:25< mattsc> If gold carry-over were to increase in time (rather than decrease as it is usually), or if there were some added rewards of some sort if you reach certain milestone turns, that would be different.
20131222 19:49:25< mattsc> If you told me 'survive until turn XX', I'd just go an wipe out all the enemies.  With the gold and units I have, that should not be hard at all.
20131222 19:49:40< mattsc> In the current setup, that is, of course we could give the enemies much more gold.
20131222 19:51:49< mattsc> zookeeper: but to be honest, I also don't see how to make the "avoid confrontation as long as possible" can really work in a scenario (even under the assumption that I can make the AI do whatever we want).
20131222 19:52:38-!- trewe [~trewe@87-196-12-166.net.novis.pt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 19:52:47< mattsc> If the AI doesn't attack, you can just sit there and do nothing.  If it does, well, there isn't much you can do other than taking up a defensive position and not fight back (in effect, do nothing either).  Either way that's pretty boring.
20131222 19:53:51< mattsc> Btw, I am not saying nothing should be done here.  I think the scenario should be changed.  I just don't currently see how the current pacifist objective can be kept while making it interesting.
20131222 19:54:31< zookeeper> well, i figured that if you were free to fight but the scenario ended in a kill, then you'd still have an incentive to actually fight them; wounded enemies wouldn't suicide themselves on you, so the more of them you wound, the more of them have to limp back to a village to heal or something, giving you a breather for a moment
20131222 19:55:02< zookeeper> but yes, it definitely can't work in the current state no matter what the AI does
20131222 19:55:45< mattsc> But I have 16 L3, including healers and I am sitting in a keep surrounded by water.  I don't really need a breather.  I just sit there doing nothing.
20131222 19:55:55< mattsc> *L3 units
20131222 19:58:04< mattsc> As I said, I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to come up with ideas of how to make this work (but not having any without changing things a lot)
20131222 19:59:28< zookeeper> of course the map would need to be changed for that idea to make any sense; they'd need to be able to come at you from several directions
20131222 19:59:33-!- trewe [~trewe@87-196-12-166.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
20131222 19:59:44< zookeeper> otherwise you could indeed just hole up in the corner forever
20131222 20:00:09-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:00:26-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:00:43< zookeeper> i find it hard to convince myself whether it'd work or not, either way
20131222 20:01:23-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:01:36< irker883> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 4d319839d4e7 / src/preferences_display.cpp: Don't call _set_fullscreen() twice in a row when there's a display http://git.io/ER6ebA
20131222 20:01:55< zookeeper> although elves and dwarves both have pretty hard-hitting units so i don't think a simple healer-backed defensive line of your highest-hp units would survive indefinitely
20131222 20:02:21< zookeeper> ...no one says they can't bring in lvl3's of their own
20131222 20:02:26< mattsc> zookeeper: yeah, we could also give the ...
20131222 20:02:33< mattsc> I was just going to type that
20131222 20:02:40< zookeeper> :P
20131222 20:03:09< zookeeper> basically you could make the AI crazy-aggressive because they player can't really exploit that to get easy kills
20131222 20:03:40< mattsc> and the goal would be to hang on for as long as possible?  and get more gold (or something) the longer you avoid a kill?
20131222 20:03:59< zookeeper> and trying to ensure that the crazy horde of lvl2/lvl3 enemies can't score even a single kill would likely be pretty tricky for a prolonged period
20131222 20:04:18< mattsc> Making the AI aggressive is simply, btw.  That's what it's best at.  :D
20131222 20:04:38< zookeeper> yes, to hang on for as long as possible. i don't know what the reward should be exactly or how it should work
20131222 20:04:57< zookeeper> well... crazy-aggressive except that they'd never attack if there's a chance the retaliation would kill them :P
20131222 20:05:06< mattsc> zookeeper: well, it could be as simple as an extra 10 starting gold next scenario for each turn you hang on
20131222 20:05:25-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:05:48< mattsc> zookeeper: that's still pretty easy.  It might even be doable with the Simple Attack MAI as is, with the right filter.  I'd have to think about it.
20131222 20:05:50-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-0-48.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:06:23< zookeeper> that, or even more simply, give the starting area enough villages that you can have a reasonable defensive force but still a positive income, and then just let the player slowly accumulate gold
20131222 20:06:46< mattsc> zookeeper: there's another mainline scenario in which you get rewards like extra starting units or extra castle hexes if you hold out for long enough, isn't there?
20131222 20:07:05< mattsc> sure, that'd work too
20131222 20:07:18< zookeeper> yes, "pebbles in the flood" in TSG
20131222 20:07:26< mattsc> right
20131222 20:07:31< mattsc> something like that might work too
20131222 20:07:56< mattsc> Anyway, I like the premise, but it seems like a scenario setup/balancing job more so than AI coding.
20131222 20:08:16< zookeeper> each turn that passes (past a certain limit) gives you a separate bonus (such as one more hex turned into a castle in the next scenario), and once all those bonuses run out, you just get +X starting gold per each turn survived
20131222 20:08:24< zookeeper> yes, definitely
20131222 20:08:26< mattsc> I can take care of the "crazy aggressive unless there's a chance to die" thing, that's easy enough
20131222 20:09:06< zookeeper> i'm not sure what sort of distinct bonuses could be given here per each turn survived, except gold
20131222 20:09:39-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20131222 20:10:17< mattsc> I think gold's enough.  Make the default starting gold for the next scenario 0, with whatever is considered reasonable starting gold reached after an "average" survival number of turns.
20131222 20:10:35< mattsc> Something along those lines.
20131222 20:12:14< mattsc> I'm off to lunch right now though.  Will be back in a little.
20131222 20:15:27-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:15:43-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:25:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:25:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:30:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:30:22-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:40:45-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:40:59-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 20:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 205 bugs, 343 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20131222 20:52:45-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 20:52:59-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:01:49-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:02:36-!- trewe [~trewe@87-196-37-220.net.novis.pt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:07:08< irker883> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master eef30804a493 / src/ (preferences.cpp preferences_display.cpp): Refactor code shared by both preferences::set_resolution() overloads http://git.io/YfTDfA
20131222 21:08:38< shadowm> wesbot: seen Upthorn 
20131222 21:08:38< wesbot> shadowm: Queried user Upthorn is currently (also as Upth) in this channel.
20131222 21:08:48< shadowm> Yes, but when was the last time he ever spoke here.
20131222 21:08:52-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20131222 21:09:29< Gambit> shadowm: he's in #minecraft
20131222 21:09:42< Gambit> oh he'
20131222 21:09:45< Gambit> s here, nevermind
20131222 21:13:36< mattsc> zookeeper: so do you want to split the work?  You do the map changes and I set up the AI?  :)
20131222 21:14:18< mattsc> It can't be done with the Simple Attack MAI, but it's still not too hard.  The main question is what to do with the units that shouldn't attack...
20131222 21:15:23< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah i already started sketching out the new map :>
20131222 21:16:13< mattsc> cool!
20131222 21:16:20< zookeeper> units that can't find anything safe to attack should firstly retreat to heal if they're wounded and if not, then probably take a few steps back so they won't block everyone else from attacking?
20131222 21:16:31< zookeeper> dunno how the latter should be formulated exactly
20131222 21:16:58< mattsc> Btw, I am wondering if setting caution to a very negative value will guarantee that the AI really never attacks with a unit that might die...
20131222 21:17:14< zookeeper> no idea
20131222 21:17:26< mattsc> ... but in that case (caution=-9999), they will not retreat and make room for others.
20131222 21:18:12< mattsc> Yes, that'd be my idea as well (as to what they should do).  And we have code for that in Ron/Fred, so I think it'd be as "easy" as adopting some of that.
20131222 21:18:25< zookeeper> but frankly, i think it'd be _very_ rare that a unit which is at full health couldn't find anyone to attack
20131222 21:18:40< zookeeper> especially since we'd not give them ulfserkers :p
20131222 21:18:48< mattsc> :)
20131222 21:18:55< mattsc> true, esp. on an open map
20131222 21:19:56< zookeeper> ranged units can find melee units to attack and vice versa, and at full health neither is gonna be killed by retaliation except in rare unit match-ups, i believe
20131222 21:20:11< mattsc> What makes it easier here is that the player is not permitted to kill an AI unit, so the retreat really doesn't have to be to a safe spot, but simply out of the way (with villages as a preferred option).
20131222 21:20:24< zookeeper> yes
20131222 21:21:29< zookeeper> i'd expect quite a few players to instinctively take an easy kill before they remember that they're not supposed to :>
20131222 21:22:05< zookeeper> at least it's different
20131222 21:22:10< mattsc> Of course ...
20131222 21:22:16< mattsc> So let me see if I get what we want to accomplish: the player may, at any time, end the scenario by killing an enemy unit.  Up to that point, it is a balancing act between getting more gold and potentially losing troops?
20131222 21:23:47< zookeeper> yes, except that the scenario would also end when a player unit dies
20131222 21:24:18< mattsc> yes, of course - so that's the mechanism about them just putting cannon fodder on the front line.
20131222 21:24:28< mattsc> s/about/against
20131222 21:24:30< zookeeper> (and in that case i think the unit would not actually die)
20131222 21:25:22< mattsc> Sounds good.  I think I like it.
20131222 21:26:02< zookeeper> hard to say how it'll actually play, but i guess we'll just have to make a prototype and find out
20131222 21:26:22< mattsc> agreed
20131222 21:29:44-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@host86-182-24-217.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20131222 21:30:29< zookeeper> thinking something like this for the map: http://imagebin.org/283403 no villages or other details yet
20131222 21:31:15< zookeeper> some good defensive locations but no chokepoints as such
20131222 21:34:40< mattsc> Is that shallow water or fords for the Side 4 elves to get to land?
20131222 21:35:08< zookeeper> shallow and reef
20131222 21:35:13< zookeeper> should get some ford i gues
20131222 21:35:15< mattsc> looks like shallow water, right?  Do we want to make it easier for them to get across?
20131222 21:35:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:36:40< zookeeper> the objectives are gonna need quite a few special notes...
20131222 21:36:49< mattsc> Other than that, that looks good, I think.  Maybe break up the lines between good and bad defense terrain a little more.
20131222 21:37:12< mattsc> Right - so we need this done before the freeze.
20131222 21:37:30< zookeeper> yes. but luckily the release just got pushed back at least a few days
20131222 21:37:32< mattsc> Well, the main changes, fine tuning can happen after.
20131222 21:38:01< mattsc> Right.  Esp. since I don't really have time to work on this today...
20131222 21:38:47-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 21:39:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:39:06-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 21:39:56-!- stikonas [~gentoo@5.20.200.50] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:39:56-!- stikonas [~gentoo@5.20.200.50] has quit [Changing host]
20131222 21:39:56-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:40:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 21:44:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:44:13-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-0-48.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20131222 21:44:32-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-121-198.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:48:55-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-121-198.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
20131222 21:48:58< zookeeper> mattsc, no avoid overly silly situations, i think enemies should retreat to heal even if they can find 0-risk targets.
20131222 21:49:28< zookeeper> it'd be pretty silly if there was a 1-hp elvish archer refusing to retreat as long as you have one melee-only unit exposed :p
20131222 21:49:53< mattsc> zookeeper: sure
20131222 21:49:59-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 21:50:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 21:52:30< mattsc> zookeeper: I just did a test.  With a caution=9999, I had a 12 HP Royal Guard on a village paired against a 1 HP Peasant.  The RG had a 2.6% chance of dying, but attacked anyway.
20131222 21:52:57< mattsc> So caution by itself is not enough to keep them from attacking.
20131222 21:58:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20131222 21:59:49-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:00:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:13:54< zookeeper> mattsc, well, luckily you have all those tricks up your sleeve
20131222 22:15:06-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:15:10< zookeeper> i'm gonna go get some sleep, will continue tomorrow
20131222 22:15:23-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:16:20< mattsc> sounds good.  bonne nuuit.
20131222 22:16:30< mattsc> s/uu/u  :P
20131222 22:18:53-!- trewe [~trewe@87-196-37-220.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: quit]
20131222 22:18:56-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@apn-94-44-255-79.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Távozom]
20131222 22:19:47-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20131222 22:25:09< irker883> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master c639195cd279 / data/themes/editor.cfg: Fix path to the smaller minimap image and correct its position. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/c639195cd27996204193c0e6e4428884d7d83fd3
20131222 22:25:18-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:25:32-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:28:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:29:49< fabi_> Ivanovic: ping
20131222 22:30:31-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:33:06-!- Adamant14 [57a16939@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.161.105.57] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:34:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:37:47-!- rjaguar3 [~rjaguar3@c-67-175-80-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20131222 22:38:49-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:39:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:40:55< Ivanovic> fabi_: pong
20131222 22:41:04< fabi_> Ivanovic: Hallo
20131222 22:46:58-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp121-45-37-142.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:48:14-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:48:28-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:48:51-!- rjaguar3 [~rjaguar3@c-67-175-80-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:53:40-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:53:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:58:19-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 22:58:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 22:59:09-!- Adamant14 [57a16939@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.161.105.57] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20131222 22:59:23-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:03:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:04:06-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:08:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:10:32-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20131222 23:13:10-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:13:55-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:14:44-!- asoiufg [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:15:26-!- {V} [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20131222 23:15:30-!- asoiufg is now known as {V}
20131222 23:16:37-!- {V} [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:16:40-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:16:56-!- Upthorn [~ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:17:05-!- {V} [~V@88-73-ftth.on.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:43:42-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20131222 23:43:56-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.55.134] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20131222 23:44:40< irker883> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 9f9a7b9460e5 / changelog src/mp_depcheck.cpp: Fix bug #21365 - make MP modification dep checks revert properly if not compatib http://git.io/fzHSLw
20131222 23:45:49< shadowm> fabi_: Okay, control+o doesn't work on the titlescreen for me anymore, not even when starting fresh.
20131222 23:45:57< shadowm> F5 still does, though.
20131222 23:46:21< fabi_> shadowm: While d (for unit description) isn't working for AI0867 but for me.
20131222 23:46:57< shadowm> Uhm, d works for me in-game when the unit I want to check is hovered or selected.
20131222 23:47:21< fabi_> yes
20131222 23:47:31< AI0867> not for me
20131222 23:47:46< AI0867> if you right click on the unit, it's not hinted in the menu either
20131222 23:47:53< shadowm> fabi_: Have you ever worked with the GUI2 bindings for Lua, by the way?
20131222 23:48:39< shadowm> AI0867: I see the 'd' hint in the context menu if that's what you mean. Perhaps you don't have anything assigned to that action?
20131222 23:48:47< AI0867> I don't
20131222 23:48:56< AI0867> but setting hotkeys to default does not fix this
20131222 23:49:08< AI0867> and I finally found the hotkey in the hotkeys menu
20131222 23:49:17< AI0867> nothing is assigned to it, of course
20131222 23:49:27< shadowm> Hm, indeed, clearing it and resetting to the defaults doesn't bring it back.
20131222 23:49:39< AI0867> fabi_: hotkey defaults is broken
20131222 23:49:47< shadowm> And when I try to assign it again, it complains that it's in use by "Paint Tool".
20131222 23:50:06< shadowm> Which... is correct.
20131222 23:50:11< AI0867> and as unit description is in "general", that conflicts
20131222 23:50:19< AI0867> it wouldn't conflict if it was in "game", I expect
20131222 23:50:29< fabi_> yes
20131222 23:50:32< fabi_> That is the fault
20131222 23:50:35< shadowm> It offers me the option to reassign it to Unit Description, and I accept it.
20131222 23:50:47-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20131222 23:50:51< fabi_> I moved "d" to general to make it work in the editor as well.
20131222 23:50:56< shadowm> Now it is assigned both to Unit Description and (apparently) Paint Tool, so it's not quite reassigning it.
20131222 23:51:29< fabi_> The problem is that there are two bindings for "d" in the same scape.
20131222 23:51:31< fabi_> scope
20131222 23:51:52< AI0867> yes, well, this breaks the defaults
20131222 23:52:37< fabi_> At least this is an easy fix.
20131222 23:53:03< fabi_> ctrl+o might be more hard.
20131222 23:53:06< shadowm> But back to my original problem, ctrl+o is only assigned to Load Game, so there shouldn't be any conflicts. In fact, it works fine in-game; it's just the titlescreen that's ignoring it.
20131222 23:53:47< shadowm> Anyway, has any of you worked with GUI2 in Lua?
20131222 23:53:47< fabi_> shadowm: No, I must admit that I have neglected the lua part of Wesnoth. Although I bought a book about LUA when we got the support.
20131222 23:54:19< shadowm> Okay, I was just curious about that particular aspect.
20131222 23:54:31< fabi_> But I am all ears.
20131222 23:54:42< fabi_> What do you want to achieve?
20131222 23:54:45< shadowm> No, I am afraid I need someone experienced and with a red title for my devious plan.
20131222 23:55:17< shadowm> I rebased https://gna.org/patch/?2759 against master and I would really love to push it upstream.
20131222 23:55:34< shadowm> But I suspect someone would disapprove.
20131222 23:57:07< fabi_> I must admit anon's reply does not tell me a single thing and seems rather unfriendly :-)
--- Log closed Mon Dec 23 00:00:14 2013