--- Log opened Wed Dec 25 00:00:33 2013
--- Day changed Wed Dec 25 2013
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20131225 01:12:26< fendrin> shadowm: better assign 20709 to the developer who implemented the feature. It was coffee iirc. 
20131225 01:14:31< shadowm> fendrin: I thought it was you.
20131225 01:14:49< shadowm> wesbot: seen coffee_irc
20131225 01:14:49< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick Coffee_irc 23h 13m ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
20131225 01:17:37< AI0867> wesbot: bug 20709
20131225 01:17:38< wesbot> Bug #20709  Assigned to: None  Status: None  Priority: 5 - Normal
20131225 01:17:38< wesbot> Summary:  [interface] Campaign specific hotkeys feature request
20131225 01:17:38< wesbot> Original submission: I think that it might be a good idea to make it possible 
20131225 01:17:41< wesbot> to assign hotkeys (user defined, identified only as hotkey 1-7 in WML) to right-
20131225 01:17:44< wesbot> URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?20709
20131225 01:19:51< shadowm> fendrin: No, it was gfgtdf.
20131225 01:20:10< shadowm> ... who doesn't have a gna.org account or membership.
20131225 01:20:22< shadowm> wesbot: seen gfgtdf
20131225 01:20:22< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick gfgtdf last spoke 3d ago.  2d 23h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]
20131225 01:20:36< fendrin> shadowm: Meaning he might not have a red title.
20131225 01:20:52< shadowm> fendrin: Huh?
20131225 01:21:04< shadowm> Why?
20131225 01:21:36< shadowm> I mean, if you think that might be the case, then you haven't been paying attention: http://forums.wesnoth.org/search.php?author_id=133517&sr=posts
20131225 01:21:51< fendrin> Oh
20131225 01:21:56< shadowm> Not to mention that red usernames are independent from having commit access.
20131225 01:46:43< fendrin> bumbadadabum: Hello
20131225 01:47:00< bumbadadabum> Hello
20131225 01:47:11< fendrin> bumbadadabum: Do you want to help out with some prose?
20131225 01:47:41< bumbadadabum> Prose isn't exactly my expertise
20131225 01:48:06< fendrin> Oh, I have heard otherwise.
20131225 01:48:13< bumbadadabum> where?
20131225 01:48:20< fendrin> Maybe my request wasn'
20131225 01:48:22< bumbadadabum> But I guess I could try
20131225 01:48:26< fendrin> t precise enough.
20131225 01:48:59< fendrin> I don't search for prose between characters but for help with some more technical issues.
20131225 01:49:20< bumbadadabum> ah
20131225 01:49:25< bumbadadabum> Perhaps I could help
20131225 01:49:54< fendrin> The autogenerated terrain section needs some strings for explaining some of the possible terrain features.
20131225 01:50:13< fendrin> Like "gives healing" and "gives income"
20131225 01:50:18< fendrin> allows recruiting from 
20131225 01:50:28< fendrin> allows recruiting into
20131225 01:50:40< fendrin> Those are all boolean values of the terrain in question.
20131225 01:51:02< fendrin> I thought about presenting a nice string instead o just.
20131225 01:51:05< fendrin> of just:
20131225 01:51:13< fendrin> Gives Income: Yes
20131225 01:51:23< bumbadadabum> well
20131225 01:51:36< bumbadadabum> I think "grants income" is the most direct and clear way to put that
20131225 01:51:49< shadowm> "This terrain grants income per turn."
20131225 01:52:15< shadowm> s/per/every/
20131225 01:52:27< fendrin> "for the player who last occupied the field"
20131225 01:52:42< bumbadadabum> that works
20131225 01:52:48< bumbadadabum> how verbose do you want it to be
20131225 01:52:59< shadowm> I don't think we call them 'fields' in the manual or help.
20131225 01:53:20< shadowm> Gameplay -> Movement calls them 'hexes'.
20131225 01:59:52< fendrin> bumbadadabum: Hmmm, good question. The question is if we just refer to something described elsewhere (in a different help section) or if we put all the gameplay mechanism in the terrain description.
20131225 02:01:47< bumbadadabum> fendrin: I'll look at it tomorrow
20131225 02:01:54< bumbadadabum> going to get some sleep
20131225 02:02:07< fendrin> Fine, thank you. Sleep well :-)
20131225 02:02:14< bumbadadabum> you too
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20131225 02:29:09< shadowm> fendrin: Oh yeah, don't forget to tell me what's up with those [hotkey] tags.
20131225 02:29:49< shadowm> I'm wondering if it has any connection to some newly perceived slowness when loading games.
20131225 02:30:04< fendrin> shadowm: Sorry I miss the context. Maybe some old message from you?
20131225 02:30:34< shadowm> Yes, from earlier today.
20131225 02:40:33< shadowm> OK so how come the Ruffian's melee attack is 1 point stronger than the Footpad's?
20131225 02:42:33< shadowm> I've been wasting my time and gold here recruiting footpads to fight skeletons when I should've been recruiting ruffians. :p
20131225 02:43:01< vultraz> Better yet, recruit thugs
20131225 02:43:35< shadowm> I can't recruit thugs in this scenario...
20131225 02:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 205 bugs, 343 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20131225 03:00:41< fendrin> Hmmm, why is the default map in the editor 33x44 hex fields.
20131225 03:04:39< shadowm> Why not?
20131225 03:05:31< vultraz> Why is that a problem?
20131225 03:05:44< fendrin> shadowm: Maybe the whole default hotkey stuff is also more a bug  gfgtdf.
20131225 03:07:01< fendrin> vultraz: It is not a problem. I just wonder why it is not a square and why exactly those values.
20131225 03:07:04< shadowm> I don't know, that doesn't sound like a convincing thesis.
20131225 03:07:33< fendrin> shadowm: gfgtdf based the whole hotkeys around the command string.
20131225 03:07:45< shadowm> I don't see any arguments, in fact. Anyway, I was going to try clearing all hotkey nodes from the preferences file, because the ridiculous lag when loading saves is starting to get on my nerves.
20131225 03:08:16< fendrin> shadowm: Before his feature they were identified by the hotkey enumeration.
20131225 03:13:43< fendrin> shadowm: And I don't see a conection between loading and the hotkeys.
20131225 03:17:25< shadowm> It is a far-fetched possibility, I know.
20131225 03:17:54< shadowm> Uhm... actually, it recovered itself after restarting the whole game. That would suggest a resource leak... :\
20131225 03:18:56< shadowm> Never mind, the load screen confounded me.
20131225 03:19:25< shadowm> It's still very slow, even though the RSS is constant at the megabyte order.
20131225 03:20:52< fendrin> I have noticed that 1.11 is significant slower than 1.10 as well.
20131225 03:21:36< shadowm> If you are still talking about -O0 builds...
20131225 03:21:41< fendrin> But I blamed the fact that 1.11 is a debug build while 1.10 is a production binary. 
20131225 03:21:44< shadowm> Okay, 1.11.7 is far faster than this mess I have now.
20131225 03:22:39< shadowm> And both are -O3 builds. So... regression confirmed? :\
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20131225 03:30:54< fendrin> shadowm: I have never tried to use some profiling to find where an application spends its time. I wonder if eclipse supports it.
20131225 03:41:55< shadowm> 420131225 00:41:37 debug general: Could match by character...yes, but scope is inactive
20131225 03:41:59< shadowm> 20131225 00:41:37 debug general: Could match by character...but modifiers different
20131225 03:42:47< shadowm> You wouldn't imagine...
20131225 03:42:48< shadowm> shadowm@nanacore:~/src/wesnoth% wesnoth -d --log-debug=all 2>&1 | fgrep 'Could match by character...yes, but scope is inactive' | wc -l
20131225 03:42:51< shadowm> 294546
20131225 03:43:07< shadowm> That's an absolutely ridiculous number of lines like that, and that's from the hotkeys code.
20131225 03:43:59< shadowm> Yes, it's nearly 295,000 lines.
20131225 03:44:06< shadowm> No, that's not a typo.
20131225 03:46:14< shadowm> Sigh, my plans for Christmas didn't involve bisecting a performance degradation bug. .|
20131225 03:52:32< fendrin> shadowm: We should discuss it with gfgtdf, he might know if his changes might cause some performance impacts.
20131225 03:52:55< shadowm> I intend to find the culprit first.
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20131225 03:56:37< shadowm> The effect seems mysteriously cumulative in spite of the fixed memory usage. That's odd.
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20131225 04:18:51< shadowm> So far I seem to be approaching a wholly different person's commit... :\
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20131225 04:20:25< shadowm> Oh no. :( This must be a mistake...
20131225 04:24:02< shadowm> The weirdest thing is that the commit's performance degradation is directly related to my current preferences file. It doesn't happen with a fresh one.
20131225 04:25:59< shadowm> It may be actually caused by the garbage nodes I somehow accumulated in it...
20131225 04:27:02< shadowm> Of course, this is the part where if people did their refactoring in a more orderly fashion I'd have a better time trying to understand what's going on.
20131225 04:28:17< fendrin> :-)
20131225 04:28:31< shadowm> fendrin: Bhttp://pastebin.com/EBNtUmaf
20131225 04:29:16< fendrin> shadowm: This commit is causing the performance decay?
20131225 04:29:32< shadowm> Only in combination with my massive preferences file.
20131225 04:30:02< shadowm> It may be because game_config_manager::init_game_config() calls hotkey::load_hotkeys(), but you knew that already.
20131225 04:30:25< fendrin> Okay, I will have a look at it later this day.
20131225 04:30:54< shadowm> Assuming there isn't something more exotic going on, it's still weird that the performance degradation worsens over the course of a session rather than the other way around, what with disk caching and all...
20131225 04:31:19< shadowm> I don't think it merits further investigation unless I can get the game to enlarge the preferences file again.
20131225 04:31:25< fendrin> How many entries [hotkey] does your preferences file own?
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20131225 04:31:38< fendrin> The old one before you delete it.
20131225 04:32:12< shadowm> 787.
20131225 04:32:24< shadowm> Most of them identical.
20131225 04:32:47< fendrin> uh
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20131225 04:33:16< fendrin> shadowm: Please note me if it is growing again.
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20131225 04:41:07< shadowm> Okay, after manually cleaning my preferences file I am able to assign hotkeys without them being reverted on restart...
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20131225 05:46:32< fendrin> shadowm: Still the system might not work to your full satisfaction since I am not sure if you can delete the default hotkeys. Without having tested it I guess only reassigning them works.
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20131225 09:24:25< lipkab> Merry Wesmas everyone!
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20131225 10:56:16< zookeeper> ok so who's messed with how sighted events fire, in 1.11?
20131225 10:56:50< zookeeper> there's this http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=557052#p557052 and then there was the other one with the troll sighted events in TSG
20131225 11:00:09< zookeeper> that's gotta be an engine change of some kind, so whoever broke it better go fix all the events it affects
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20131225 11:21:12< zookeeper> although that might not have to do with sighted events as such, but with fog/shroud defaults for non-player sides or something like that.
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20131225 14:03:21< AI0867> Ivanovic: which version of boost do you use for pandora?
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20131225 15:11:33< Ivanovic> AI0867: 1.41.0
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20131225 15:15:36< Ivanovic> so yes, a jump to 1.42.0 is problematic...
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20131225 15:15:53< bumbadadabum> happygrue: I just finished updating the Khalifate animationWML
20131225 15:22:04< bumbadadabum> Tell me if you find any mistakes
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20131225 15:22:06< irker596> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master f8a5162e25e6 / data/core/units/khalifate/ (26 files): Updated Khalifate AnimationWML http://git.io/YgO8WA
20131225 15:22:07< irker596> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master b146cdd54ddb / data/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Fixed a typo: horse_canter.wav -> horse-canter.wav http://git.io/Xa_ILg
20131225 15:41:05< happygrue> bumbadadabum: great, I will look at it a little later
20131225 16:09:39< fendrin> bumbadadabum: You are firm with animation wml?
20131225 16:10:03< bumbadadabum> fendrin: It's what I do, mostly
20131225 16:10:23< fendrin> bumbadadabum: May I ask you for a favor, again?
20131225 16:10:29< bumbadadabum> sure
20131225 16:11:16< fendrin> bumbadadabum: I have replaced the orcish shaman image from SotBE with new ones.
20131225 16:11:26< bumbadadabum> uhu
20131225 16:11:32< bumbadadabum> I noticed that
20131225 16:11:46< fendrin> bumbadadabum: But my disabling of the extra animations means that they lack prober animation wml.
20131225 16:11:53< bumbadadabum> ok
20131225 16:11:57< bumbadadabum> I'll look at them
20131225 16:12:28< fendrin> The same is true for the wose shaman in DM.
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20131225 16:46:39< AI0867> Ivanovic: I was thinking more about bumping from 1.36 to 1.37
20131225 16:46:56< AI0867> allows us to get rid of some preprocessor boost version checks
20131225 16:47:55< AI0867> zookeeper: fog/shroud was changed to work per hex rather than per entire move, which also has performance effects due to large amounts of repainting. Not sure who is responsible for this though
20131225 16:51:14< irker596> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master ddd568fce412 / src/network_asio.cpp: Have network_asio not wait forever on invalid package sizes http://git.io/ooSHLA
20131225 16:51:16< irker596> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master e2bbbc2e59f1 / data/ (28 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/-RLCCw
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20131225 17:44:57< fendrin> AI0867: jamit
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20131225 17:45:28< fendrin> AI0867: I think jamit implemented the fog/shroud step by step revealing.
20131225 18:21:20< zookeeper> step by step revealing wouldn't cause this
20131225 18:50:01< AI0867> maybe there's some slight behavioral change
20131225 18:50:19< AI0867> zookeeper: do you have a testcase that makes the difference clear?
20131225 18:54:02< zookeeper> AI0867, no, i haven't tested anything myself. but apparently playing the lost general for a few turns ought to be enough.
20131225 19:01:41< AI0867> if I'm going to bisect this, I need a testcase that requires little time and effort
20131225 19:01:52< AI0867> because I'll need to do it something like 20 times
20131225 19:08:36< mattsc> AI0867: if you go back to before this commit by zookeeper from a few days ago, the change should be apparent on the first turn of TSG Into the Depth:
20131225 19:08:41< mattsc> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/6f7c4363cc5b83e786a411271d33ca4ed32568cd
20131225 19:08:53< zookeeper> mmyeah
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20131225 20:55:21< lipkab> vultraz: You were looking for me?
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20131225 22:03:24< AI0867> zookeeper, mattsc: I suspects it's jamit's ac4606166d028eb7fa1af
20131225 22:03:53< AI0867> haven't tested anything, but the message says it's altered sighted behaviour
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20131225 22:20:20< irker596> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 8d8d6947ce10 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/units/ (Novice_Orcish_Shaman.cfg Old_Orcish_Shaman.cfg Orcish_Shaman.cfg): Simplified AnimationWML for the Orcish Shamans http://git.io/vHHpGA
20131225 22:20:24< irker596> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master d1a9f1f25943 / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/maps/06_Two_Paths.map: EI: Improved scenario 6's map http://git.io/Ukhnwg
20131225 22:20:39< shadowm> happygrue: Who should I talk to if I feel some mainline unit's stats are wrong in relation to a unit from the same line that's part of the Default era?
20131225 22:21:09< bumbadadabum> fendrin: Simplified the WML for you
20131225 22:21:18< bumbadadabum> the shamans still work the same way
20131225 22:21:42< bumbadadabum> your inserting of the new sprites didn't change much
20131225 22:21:52< bumbadadabum> but the wose shaman used to have a standing anim
20131225 22:22:11< bumbadadabum> I think I'll remove all that entirely
20131225 22:22:57< bumbadadabum> also, I'm going to maybe add a halo to the shaman's ranged attack
20131225 22:23:37< happygrue> shadowm: in general, you could talk to noy, jb or I, or Soliton.
20131225 22:24:07< happygrue> which unit(s)?
20131225 22:25:23< shadowm> happygrue: The Ruffian is the L0 to the Footpad and got its melee attack increased from 4-2 to 5-2 on 1.3.5. However, the Footpad's was decreased from 5-2 to 4-2 on 1.9.1.
20131225 22:25:50< shadowm> As a result, the Footpad's melee is worse than its L0's.
20131225 22:27:30< happygrue> in gereral, as I understand it anyway, RIPLIB means that there is *a* path that improves each stat (or keeps it the same), but some paths could get worse in some areas if another option exists
20131225 22:27:39< happygrue> the other factor is that ruffian isn't in default...
20131225 22:27:45< happygrue> but changing something would be fine with me
20131225 22:28:53< happygrue> so ruffian can go to thug so no RIPLIB problem
20131225 22:29:11< happygrue> or footpad for movement/ranged but you don't get to keep the melee
20131225 22:29:28< shadowm> Right.
20131225 22:29:45< happygrue> that is my take on it - but if something needs to change my thought would be move ruffian's melee to 5-2
20131225 22:30:04< happygrue> what are your thoughts?
20131225 22:30:49< zookeeper> didn't he just say that it is 5-2
20131225 22:31:16< shadowm> Yes, it is 5-2 and the Footpad's is 4-2.
20131225 22:31:37< blarumyrran> ruffian's definitely worse than the peasant and thats thecomparisonthat counts!
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20131225 22:32:17< shadowm> I don't have any ideas, really, since balancing isn't my field and I'm not a good player. I just wanted to bring this to someone's attention in case it might have been an oversight.
20131225 22:33:25< shadowm> Coding oversights are very common around here, after all.
20131225 22:38:23< AI0867> this does look very much like an oversight
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20131225 23:27:05< happygrue> sorry, very distracted today
20131225 23:27:40< happygrue> I think in general, when a balance change is made to default, if there isn't a RIPLIB conflict then we don't mess with any other units
20131225 23:28:02< happygrue> so if there is a conflict then I guess we have to change something, but there isn't as I understand the rule
20131225 23:29:09< Coffee_irc> just want to put it ou there that there is a RIPLIB issue with the ruffian->footpad even since the change to the footpad melee went through
20131225 23:29:11< happygrue> changing ruffian has no impact on the default era, so doing whatever the campaign folks think is best with him is fine by me
20131225 23:29:42< happygrue> maybe I misunderstand how it works, but since there is advancement to thug I don't see the conflict?
20131225 23:31:14< Coffee_irc> this is the only advancement in default that loses power
20131225 23:31:47< Coffee_irc> except maybe with khalifate? That shuja line, which may have been fixed
20131225 23:32:01< happygrue> this is not the only advancement
20131225 23:32:37< happygrue> others of this type have been kept before, because as long as there is *a* branch that improves the stats there isn't a problem, as I understood it
20131225 23:32:39< Coffee_irc> happygrue: apart from drake thrasher, which is a huge improvement, I don't see it
20131225 23:32:56< happygrue> peasent -> bowman has the same thing going on
20131225 23:33:10< happygrue> there are others IIRC, looking now
20131225 23:33:21< happygrue> spear to pikeman
20131225 23:33:30< happygrue> or swordsman
20131225 23:33:35< happygrue> they lose a whole attack type
20131225 23:33:38< Coffee_irc> well, peasant to bowman is a change of type of attack
20131225 23:33:42< happygrue> but there is *a* branch that preserves it
20131225 23:34:03< happygrue> melee goes from 5-2 to 4-2... it's the same thing I think?
20131225 23:34:15< Coffee_irc> not really, because it is a different type of attack
20131225 23:34:18< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Too late, I brought it up first. :p
20131225 23:35:19< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I don't know why you guys didn't nerf the range attack of the footpad
20131225 23:35:35< shadowm> Coffee_irc: "You guys"?
20131225 23:35:46< Coffee_irc> well, whoever did it for 1.10
20131225 23:35:49< shadowm> As I said above,
20131225 23:36:06< shadowm> Balancing isn't my field and I'm not a good player.
20131225 23:36:17< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Don't get me involved in such issues. :p
20131225 23:36:19< happygrue> so removing the ability to do ranged damage is fine for some branch, but somehow losing 1 on a melee attack is a problem on another branch?  I guess I don't understand how RIPLIB works then :D
20131225 23:37:11< happygrue> it has to do with how the unit fairs against UD.  Footpad stats have been raised and lowered several times trying to find the right fit
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20131225 23:37:24< Coffee_irc> yeah, I know
20131225 23:38:20< AI0867> happygrue: RIPLIB means at least one advancement must be strictly superior
20131225 23:38:25< Coffee_irc> happygrue: I always thought that RIPLIB meant that it would never on average be worse to level up a unit against a particular opponent
20131225 23:38:29< AI0867> 5-2 -> 5-4 is strictly superior
20131225 23:38:41< happygrue> right, I agree AI0867
20131225 23:38:44< AI0867> the knight is debatable though
20131225 23:38:56< happygrue> so I don't think there is a problem with the footpad/ruffian?
20131225 23:39:01< AI0867> grand knight has less move
20131225 23:39:12< AI0867> and paladin's sword attack isn't blade
20131225 23:39:22< happygrue> yes, perhaps so
20131225 23:39:28< happygrue> that is a case I could see
20131225 23:41:43< Coffee_irc> AI0867: the attack is still more powerful with the change of type
20131225 23:41:48< happygrue> so to recap:  I don't see a RIPLIB problem with ruffian/footpad, but if we need to change something on the ruffian for fluff reasons we could
20131225 23:41:53< happygrue> maybe make him 4-3 or something?
20131225 23:42:04< happygrue> but he loses a move
20131225 23:42:47< Coffee_irc> if you look at the footpad's advancement, the range attack is less powerful than the melee
20131225 23:43:00< AI0867> Coffee_irc: well, think about using it against a footpad
20131225 23:43:10< AI0867> it's an elusivefoot, with a weakness to blade
20131225 23:43:18< AI0867> it's also 20% resistant to arcane
20131225 23:43:22< Coffee_irc> AI0867: ?
20131225 23:43:33< Coffee_irc> melee would be useful against skeletons
20131225 23:43:39< AI0867> that's irrelevant
20131225 23:43:41< Coffee_irc> they hardly hit on retaliation
20131225 23:43:48< Coffee_irc> from a 70% spot
20131225 23:44:12< AI0867> imagine you have a knight at 8 hexes away from a footpad that it can kill exactly using its sword
20131225 23:44:18< Coffee_irc> but I never joined to be a ladder player
20131225 23:45:03< Coffee_irc> AI0867: the extra swing would compensate you'll find
20131225 23:45:47< Coffee_irc> at 20% I think the damage would be roughly equal
20131225 23:46:05< Coffee_irc> but it would depend on tod
20131225 23:46:14< Coffee_irc> for a point this way or that
20131225 23:46:30< AI0867> Coffee_irc: elusivefoot is 30% weak to blade
20131225 23:46:40< AI0867> so it's 1.3/.8
20131225 23:46:52< AI0867> or 1.625
20131225 23:47:06< AI0867> a single extra swing does not compensate for that
20131225 23:47:19< AI0867> I don't even have to pull UMC into this
20131225 23:48:07< Coffee_irc> AI0867: you are right, but the difference is negligible
20131225 23:48:38< Coffee_irc> you would use chage most time
20131225 23:48:41< Coffee_irc> in day
20131225 23:48:51< Coffee_irc> and at night it would be different
20131225 23:48:58< AI0867> okay, so it's the highest level one instead
20131225 23:49:14< AI0867> there's more than one elusivefoot unit around
20131225 23:49:18< AI0867> master at arms?
20131225 23:49:50< Coffee_irc> AI0867: I think that charge would be the attack used
20131225 23:50:00< Coffee_irc> grand knight would use sword
20131225 23:50:15< AI0867> grand knight can't reach. It's slower
20131225 23:50:20< Coffee_irc> this is already what AI uses
20131225 23:50:33< Coffee_irc> I know because I wrote a survival UMC :P
20131225 23:53:10 * Coffee_irc just reading the backlogs
20131225 23:53:33< Coffee_irc> IMO ruffian is already better than peasant in many situations
20131225 23:54:01< Coffee_irc> as it has impact type attack, which is generally pretty powerful
20131225 23:54:45< Coffee_irc> and it is cheaper
--- Log closed Thu Dec 26 00:00:04 2013