--- Log opened Tue Dec 31 00:00:47 2013
20131231 00:01:17< AI0867> mattsc: probably. Didn't know there was a bug about that
20131231 00:02:31< AI0867> mattsc: er, the bug was reported with a *newer* version
20131231 00:02:36< mattsc> AI0867: this bug was posted today and claims to be using very recently compiled trunk: Latest dev branch 1.11.7+dev(5165a20-Clean) 
20131231 00:02:43< mattsc> yes
20131231 00:02:49< AI0867>  git describe d12a0f706e02841dc90a4a20dfb5b1c33ef5b973
20131231 00:02:50< AI0867> 1.11.7-281-gd12a0f7
20131231 00:02:55< AI0867> $ git describe 5165a20
20131231 00:02:55< AI0867> 1.11.7-608-g5165a20
20131231 00:29:48< AI0867> elias: my fix unfortunately only worked for non-macroified strings. I have a simple .cfg file that triggers it, but copy-pasting this into a testcase works perfectly. I can't get it to fail!
20131231 00:30:34< AI0867> elias: reading in the file and using that triggers the bug
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20131231 03:21:03< irker561> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master eefb73a67cb1 / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/maps/07a_The_Crossing.map: EI: Improved S7's map http://git.io/QGQo6g
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20131231 08:38:31< shadowm> Is the chasm bridge over chasm unwalkable for anyone else?
20131231 08:39:02< shadowm> Qxu^Bs\
20131231 08:40:12< shadowm> Hm.
20131231 08:40:15< shadowm>   aliasof=U,_bas
20131231 08:40:46< shadowm> Does that terrain U even exist?
20131231 08:41:25< shadowm> egrep 'string=U$' data/core/terrain.cfg gives nothing. Ut, on the other hand... :|
20131231 08:42:49< shadowm> fabi: What did you do this time? :p
20131231 08:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 207 bugs, 342 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20131231 08:44:25< shadowm> Apparently commit f456850875847479c964171dc3503abb689d81a7 is the one that introduced the broken aliases.
20131231 08:47:07< shadowm> Excellent timing there, the bogus aliases made it to 1.11.7.
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20131231 08:48:43< irker561> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 51d39626de4c / data/core/terrain.cfg: Fix broken terrain aliases causing chasm bridges to be unwalkable http://git.io/nbWFjQ
20131231 08:52:06< Ivanovic> wesbot: seen noy
20131231 08:52:06< wesbot> Ivanovic: The person with the nick noy last spoke 9d 7h ago.  4d 6h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: noy
20131231 08:52:16< fabi_> Ivanovic: Hi
20131231 08:52:25< Ivanovic> hi
20131231 08:53:10< shadowm> I guess there's absolutely no way to work around this in campaigns other than not using the terrain.
20131231 08:55:19< shadowm> Hm, actually, I can't reproduce it on 1.11.7.
20131231 08:56:12< fabi_> hihi
20131231 08:56:29< shadowm> Yes, hi.
20131231 08:56:42< fabi_> No, I meant harhar.
20131231 08:56:52< shadowm> Oh, you mean "hee hee".
20131231 08:57:03< fabi_> yeah
20131231 08:57:09< shadowm> How is this funny?
20131231 08:57:57< shadowm> Oh, I guess the commit was actually pushed after 1.11.7 was tagged.
20131231 08:58:33< shadowm> Should've used git log --format=fuller.
20131231 08:58:54< fabi_> It is funny because the damage does not seem to be that grave.
20131231 08:58:57< shadowm> Crisis averted, it didn't make it to 1.11.7.
20131231 08:59:25< shadowm> Pretty sure getting interrupted mid-game by a terrain definition bug is a federal offense. :p
20131231 09:00:34< fabi_> Well, in a stable release pretty much. In a development version they player should be exited to have the chance to contribute to the project by filling a nice bug report.
20131231 09:00:41< fabi_> s/they/the
20131231 09:01:04< shadowm> Wouldn't it be nice if wmllint was able to detect this kind of thing?
20131231 09:01:18< shadowm> I'm not going to double-check the other terrains involved in the commit pair.
20131231 09:02:27< shadowm> Also, 'exited' != 'excited'.
20131231 09:07:20< fabi_> shadowm: I think the terrain engine should catch terrains which base on non existent parent.
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20131231 09:44:32< fabi_> shadowm: Do you have an idea what the leanto.png image in scenery represents?
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20131231 10:00:55< fabi_> hi thunderstruck
20131231 10:01:02< thunderstruck> Hello.
20131231 10:01:09< fabi_> vultraz-festive: happy new year
20131231 10:05:34< vultraz-festive> 3 more hours for me, but happy new year all the same :)
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20131231 10:08:28< fabi_> vultraz-festive: It is 11 am here.
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20131231 10:21:29< irker561> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master af9ced64b1a6 / data/core/editor/items.cfg: Some prose corrections by Espreon. http://git.io/Ev5hIg
20131231 10:21:30< irker561> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 4f119bdc1888 / / (9 files in 5 dirs): Support for assigning recruit lists in the editor. http://git.io/Cg2z1w
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20131231 10:36:05< zookeeper> fabi_, i've always assumed it's a kind of lectern
20131231 10:36:32< fabi_> yeah
20131231 10:36:56< fabi_> some in battle field kind of a secretary.
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20131231 10:37:18< fabi_> I am in need of a proper translatable name for it.
20131231 11:06:00< fabi_> zookeeper, shadowm: I am going to just delete everything related to [editor_tool_hint] tag.
20131231 11:06:49< fabi_> It was used to populate the editor tools' tooltips, ages ago.
20131231 11:29:12< irker561> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master a564eda0c101 / / (10 files in 7 dirs): Remove everything related to [editor_tool_hint]. http://git.io/JIcDxg
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20131231 11:53:21< irker561> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master c8e7659fba8b / data/core/editor/time-of-day.cfg: Just a change in a comment. http://git.io/EK8Kag
20131231 12:08:08< irker561> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 5748a4cc5d10 / changelog players_changelog po/wesnoth-tutorial/ca.po: updated Catalan translation http://git.io/y6AlNA
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20131231 13:46:57< irker801> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 6d783d5bfb15 / data/core/editor/items.cfg: Named the leanto.png item "Lectern". http://git.io/7yZXGQ
20131231 14:03:54< fabi_> zookeeper, shadowm, Ivanovic: Is it okay to add [tip]s of the day concerning the map editor?
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20131231 14:09:00< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
20131231 14:09:06< fabi_> hi Elvish_Hunter
20131231 14:09:50< lipkab> Hi Elvish_Hunter.
20131231 14:29:37-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: bumbadadabum
20131231 14:31:06< Elvish_Hunter> Service announcement: I just posted the patch that enables [elseif] and adds a better sanity check to [while] and [switch]/[case].
20131231 14:31:22< Elvish_Hunter> Feel free to download and test it from here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=39704&p=564972#p564972
20131231 14:32:25< fabi_> Elvish_Hunter: No chance to get a github merge request?
20131231 14:33:14< Elvish_Hunter> Apart from the fact that I don't have idea about how to do a merge request...
20131231 14:33:51< vultraz-festive> HAPPY NEW YEAR
20131231 14:34:08< Elvish_Hunter> ... I'll push it directly when I suppose that it's ready.
20131231 14:34:26< Elvish_Hunter> @vultraz: Happy New Year to you as well!
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20131231 14:41:38< Elvish_Hunter> Sorry, my connection dropped.
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20131231 15:15:49< irker801> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master 2138a54e4796 / src/hotkey/hotkey_command.cpp: "Add new Area" --> "Add New Area" http://git.io/II9ipg
20131231 15:19:24< irker801> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master a968f9bea8b2 / data/core/images/terrain/misc/detritus/ (53 files): Images for the new detritus terrain from doofus. http://git.io/8qKKpw
20131231 15:23:59< irker801> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master de0623ffc946 / data/core/ (terrain-graphics.cfg terrain.cfg): WML coding for the new detritus terrain from doofus. http://git.io/lG1mhQ
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20131231 15:28:59< irker801> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth-old:master ca3f4f6a4496 / data/hardwired/tips.cfg: Add some tips regarding the editor's usage. http://git.io/ZJseHg
20131231 15:36:49< Elvish_Hunter> So, now I really have to go. I wish everyone a Happy New Year!
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20131231 17:34:41< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah the +1% carryover per turn doesn't seem to work. you can get maybe 50 gold by not recruiting and just running away, which is pretty tempting because the payoff is very very uncertain if you decide to recruit and fight.
20131231 17:36:34< zookeeper> since i didn't want to mix regular carryover and static cash bonuses, maybe you could only get a static bonus based on how many turns you last... 5g per turn, maybe, with regular finishing gold being ignored entirely?
20131231 17:36:41< zookeeper> then there'd be no reason not to recruit and fight, because your expenses during the scenario wouldn't affect the outcome.
20131231 17:40:22< mattsc> zookeeper: I think that would work.  And I guess the reward for coming into the scenario with more gold would be that you can recruit/recall more units and therefore are likely to last longer?
20131231 17:40:32< zookeeper> yes
20131231 17:40:58< mattsc> okay
20131231 17:42:00< mattsc> One comment I had from my tests of the scenario was that, either way, it's best not to do anything other than grab villages with the starting units for several turns and not start recruiting until the enemies get close.  Which is pretty boring.
20131231 17:42:22< zookeeper> indeed
20131231 17:42:23< mattsc> Maybe you could use the enemy keeps a little close to the player's keep?  At least the dwarves?
20131231 17:42:34< mattsc> *closer
20131231 17:42:50< mattsc> s/use/move   ugh  :P
20131231 17:48:12< zookeeper> yeah, would probably make sense
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20131231 18:23:52< zookeeper> mattsc, alternatively, you could receive an early finish bonus from as many turns as you've survived. i guess i gotta see which one will be easier to describe...
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20131231 18:38:19< irker801> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 7a1629599973 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/units/ (Novice_Orcish_Shaman.cfg Old_Orcish_Shaman.cfg Orcish_Shaman.cfg): Improved the Orcish Shaman's ranged anim http://git.io/EWTKmA
20131231 18:38:22< irker801> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master ef2bdfbc12d9 / data/ (110 files in 9 dirs): Ran wmlindent http://git.io/mzLbbw
20131231 18:38:26< irker801> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master b7cc7b818d68 / data/campaigns/Delfadors_Memoirs/units/Wose_Shaman.cfg: Improved the ranged animation of the Wose Shaman http://git.io/hdll2w
20131231 18:38:28< irker801> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 30b0008ce937 / changelog players_changelog: Updated changelog and players_changelog http://git.io/N2H21g
20131231 18:38:31< irker801> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth-old:master 85af08a8b184 / RELEASE_NOTES: Added a release note entry for the various improvements to mainline campaigns http://git.io/1HyNxQ
20131231 18:57:49< zookeeper> poll: in a scenario without a turn limit where you must survive as long as possible, would you find this kind of note about gold carryover clear?
20131231 18:57:50< zookeeper> "You will receive a finish bonus from as many turns as you survived."
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20131231 19:08:54< vultraz-festive> I would say "for the number of"
20131231 19:09:10< vultraz-festive> "You will receive a finish bonus for the number of you survived."
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20131231 19:17:17< zookeeper> vultraz-festive, yeah, sounds better
20131231 19:18:21< vultraz-festive> of turns*
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20131231 19:33:55< mattsc> zookeeper: Interesting idea.  I think I like that.
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20131231 19:38:04< mattsc> zookeeper: only thing, it's not really "as you survived" but "as no units were killed" or something
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20131231 19:55:09< zookeeper> mattsc, sure, but i have a hard time thinking of equally concise orsomethings :p
20131231 19:56:11< zookeeper> for example "as you held out" doesn't sound as unambiguous
20131231 19:57:22< zookeeper> "lasted" maybe
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20131231 20:07:55< _8680_> fabi_, zookeeper: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lean-to>
20131231 20:08:18< zookeeper> huh.
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20131231 20:13:24< _8680_> I don’t know what the actual conditions are for this gold carryover thing (i.e., I might be quite misled), but from the messages here since “poll: […]”, I’d word it as “You will receive a finish bonus for the number of turns for which you lasted before losing a unit.”.
20131231 20:21:06< mattsc> _8680_: sounds good, except that nobody (neither player nor AI enemies) may lose a unit
20131231 20:21:55< _8680_> What is the context for that?
20131231 20:22:27< _8680_> I mean, what’s the in-game reason that everyone needs to survive?
20131231 20:22:30< shadowm> fabi_: Does the new terrain work correctly?
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20131231 20:25:05< irker801> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 9e3815fda1af / data/core/terrain.cfg: Fix broken terrain alias causing lit Mushroom Groove to be unwalkable http://git.io/22zA2g
20131231 20:25:06< shadowm> fabi_: ^
20131231 20:25:33< zookeeper> _8680_, yes, that'd be the most exact description, but IMO it's way too long
20131231 20:26:14< shadowm> If somebody could check the mainline terrains for broken aliases...
20131231 20:26:52< zookeeper> _8680_, this is about "a new land" in TRoW
20131231 20:28:41< zookeeper> that is, the context is that you're just trying to avoid making (permanent) enemies with the elves+dwarves you're "fighting". when anyone dies, someone interrupts the whole mess and the scenario ends. the scenario's always been problematic, and i'm just trying to make it as enjoyable and non-broken as possible without re-writing the entire story around it.
20131231 20:37:40< _8680_> “You will receive a finish bonus for the number of turns for which you last without anyone dying.” would also be too long, I suppose?
20131231 20:37:47< _8680_> What’s the length limit?
20131231 20:39:10< zookeeper> there's no limit, but it's just a bit awkward to repeat the same thing as in the objectives
20131231 20:39:39< _8680_> Oh, I’ll look at the objectives.
20131231 20:39:47< zookeeper> "Avoid deaths for as long as possible (the scenario ends when any unit perishes)" followed up by "You will receive a finish bonus for the number of turns for which you last without anyone dying." is a bit... clumsy
20131231 20:44:53< _8680_> I guess I’m not enough of a Wesnoth player to do this — I don’t really know what “finish bonus” entails.
20131231 20:45:45< zookeeper> the same as early finish bonus :p
20131231 20:46:40< _8680_> I don’t know what that is. Something about how much gold one gets in the next scenario if one finishes early.
20131231 20:47:53< zookeeper> yeah... :p
20131231 20:48:00< zookeeper> don't play much, do you?
20131231 20:48:43< _8680_> Yes, as I said.
20131231 20:48:58< _8680_> Don’t most scenarios have early finish bonuses though? If so, and this is the same, why mention it?
20131231 20:49:10< _8680_> Or am I misremembering?
20131231 20:49:40< zookeeper> in this scenario, you want to finish late, not early (and there's no turn limit anyway)
20131231 20:49:56< _8680_> Oh, so it’s a late finish bonus.
20131231 20:50:26< zookeeper> in most scenarios, if you finish before the turn limit then you get the early finish bonus which equals the amount of gold you'd get if you immediately took control of every village and waited until end of turns
20131231 20:52:03< _8680_> “The longer you can last without anyone dying, the larger your finish bonus will be.”?
20131231 20:52:49< zookeeper> yes
20131231 20:53:29< zookeeper> if you last 20 turns, you get the same as you'd get if there was a turn limit and you finished 20 turns early
20131231 20:54:19< _8680_> I mean, I’m proposing that as the note text.
20131231 20:54:32< zookeeper> oh right :>
20131231 20:55:06< zookeeper> yeah the only problem with that is that even an experienced player won't be able to tell what it might mean exactly
20131231 20:55:36< zookeeper> even if the other suggestions aren't exactly crystal clear to the average joe either
20131231 20:56:31< _8680_> Okay, what part do you think would be unclear to a new player? Should the “finish bonus” mechanic be given more elaboration?
20131231 20:58:09< zookeeper> well, it'd be unclear what sort of bonus it is and about how much it could be. for example when you're told you get an early finish bonus, then you know what that means (unless you're new ;)
20131231 20:58:57< zookeeper> i'd just like to express that it's the same as early finish bonus, just in reverse. because players will be familiar with the early finish bonus (even if they don't necessarily know/remember how exactly it works)
20131231 20:59:22< mattsc> zookeeper: you could put in a longer narrator message and then just a short objective note.  A bit inelegant, but if it's needed for clarity...
20131231 21:00:29< _8680_> “This scenario does not have an early finish bonus — instead, you get more of a bonus the longer you last.”? Is that still unclear?
20131231 21:02:35< mattsc> "In this scenario, the usual early finish bonus is applied to the number of turns you last instead"
20131231 21:14:44< zookeeper> mattsc, ah, that's pretty good
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20131231 22:44:38< shadowm> wesbot: seen bumbadadabum
20131231 22:44:38< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick bumbadadabum last spoke 3d 6h ago.  3h 28m ago they left with the message: Quit: Ik ga weg
20131231 22:48:11< irker801> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 74e933bcc0ce / data/gui/ (97 files in 4 dirs): Revert wmlindent pass on data/gui/ by bumbadadabum http://git.io/0NtMNQ
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 01 00:00:56 2014