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20131219 17:00:18< JoachimBeinhart> Hi everyone! Just wanted to let you know that this user: mtsoftwaresolutions_au is selling Wesnoth (a free game) on eBay for 8 GBP. What do YOU think about this?
20131219 17:02:47< Rhonda> JoachimBeinhart: The game is GPLed, so pratically he can do so.
20131219 17:03:06< JoachimBeinhart> Oh. i did not know that.
20131219 17:03:06< tdk27> as long as he's providing source on request in compliance with the GPL, he's entirely in his legal rights
20131219 17:03:22< JoachimBeinhart> no his not
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20131219 17:03:57< tdk27> how do you know - have you bought it and asked for the source code?
20131219 17:04:13< Rhonda> JoachimBeinhart: Why do you know that he is not?  Did you buy it?
20131219 17:04:30< Rhonda> Maybe the source is also on the CD they ship.
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20131219 17:04:57< Crendgrim> Doesn't he have to make it obvious where to get the source from?
20131219 17:05:13< JoachimBeinhart> No. But the eBay guidlines for item description states that you have to put such thing into the description. I double checked.
20131219 17:05:32< tdk27> that's a matter of eBay ToS then, not of GPL requirements
20131219 17:05:38< Rhonda> http://www.ebay.de/itm/121011007563 is probably what you are talking about?
20131219 17:05:55< Rhonda> What, "such thing"?
20131219 17:06:03< tdk27> Crendgrim: iirc, he's in compliance with the GPL as long as he will provide the source to anyone who has bought the software from him for free/nominal cost 
20131219 17:06:04< Rhonda> Then he is not following the ebay guidelines.
20131219 17:06:12< Rhonda> But that doesn't mean that he doesn't follow the GPL.
20131219 17:06:19< Crendgrim> urgh, the GPL is too complicated :(
20131219 17:06:21< JoachimBeinhart> Yep, Im just a little outraged, that somebody is making money out of somethig that is free.
20131219 17:06:34< tdk27> and also he can't restrict the rights of people he provides the source to, so they can for example distribute it further
20131219 17:06:39< Rhonda> You mean like OpenSUSE selling CDs with wesnoth on it?
20131219 17:06:47< Rhonda> or RedHat selling CDs with wesnoth on it?
20131219 17:07:06< tdk27> the thing to remember is the GPL is solely concerned with freedom to modify and adapt software, not with software costing no money
20131219 17:07:49< Rhonda> They could sell the whole GNU stack on ebay, and RMS is fine with that.  As long as they abide the GPL.
20131219 17:08:12< JoachimBeinhart> You are right, i just wanted to ask for some opinions on this matter.
20131219 17:08:29< tdk27> my personal opinion is it's a bit of a dick move
20131219 17:08:38< Rhonda> And maybe, only maybe, they charge for the nice box they put the CD into.  :)
20131219 17:08:50< celticminstrel> That link kinda looks like it's misrepresenting the software somehow...
20131219 17:08:52< tdk27> and if it is indeed contrary to the ebay.de tos then reporting it to them seems amusing
20131219 17:08:58< JoachimBeinhart> Tha box is only for show. not included
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20131219 17:09:29< Rhonda> Where does it state that?
20131219 17:09:39< JoachimBeinhart> Under the picture
20131219 17:09:46< celticminstrel> On the other hand, I suppose you could argue that "MT Software Solutions" is the distributor and thus has the right to put their name on the box...
20131219 17:10:24< Rhonda> Ah, the part that didn't appear to me because of ScriptSave.  %-)
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20131219 17:10:53< celticminstrel> Google Translate, why do you fail me.
20131219 17:11:26< Crendgrim> I love the title of that entry
20131219 17:11:34< JoachimBeinhart> They only post you a printed cd in a sleeve. no box. and if you want you can also choose the digital download
20131219 17:11:34< Crendgrim> whoever falls for that kind of deserves it. :p
20131219 17:11:41< Turuk> It's nice of them to note that the item is under copyright...
20131219 17:11:42< celticminstrel> It's almost as if it sees English and decides it must be finished.
20131219 17:12:19< JoachimBeinhart> and on top of it, everíthing the sell is free and under GNU GPL. :-(
20131219 17:13:00< Rhonda> JoachimBeinhart: Did you scroll down to the copyright section?
20131219 17:13:08< JoachimBeinhart> yeah
20131219 17:13:12< Rhonda> I know it is about the installer, but at least they are aware of the GPL.
20131219 17:13:20< tdk27> right down tnear hte bottom of that description it says: The individual software installer and screenshots are released under the GNU GPL. The license is available on the CD-ROM.
20131219 17:13:42< tdk27> so as long as I can contact them and get the source as well, it looks like they're entirely in their rights
20131219 17:13:43< Rhonda> So I rather doubt that they infring the wesnoth copyright/GPL, if they even mention the installer copyright/GPL.
20131219 17:14:16< Rhonda> There is one big mistake there though:
20131219 17:14:25< Rhonda> "All other images, items, box image, CD-ROM menus and designs are copyrighted and contain our protected IP."
20131219 17:14:47< tdk27> that box image does seem a bit dodge for being their copyright
20131219 17:14:49< Rhonda> The images that are part of their box image are NOT protected by IP or their copyright.
20131219 17:15:00< tdk27> unless they're counting the part of it that's wesnoth as being 'screenshot' or something...
20131219 17:15:00< Rhonda> Indeed.
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20131219 17:17:02< JoachimBeinhart> ive tried to ask them in email about the matter, but all i got was an autoresponse message stating that the "our office is closed right now, but w will get beck to you". That was in the afternoon on a weekday.
20131219 17:17:21< celticminstrel> What mistake?
20131219 17:19:06< celticminstrel> ...Rhonda?
20131219 17:20:41< Rhonda> celticminstrel: The one I mentioned? :)
20131219 17:20:48< Rhonda> But tdk27 got a point there.
20131219 17:21:06< celticminstrel> Huh? You ended your sentence with a colon and didn't follow up... 
20131219 17:21:12< Rhonda> I did.
20131219 17:21:39< celticminstrel> Oh wait, maybe my client reordered the messages.
20131219 17:21:55< celticminstrel> Or not.
20131219 17:21:59< celticminstrel> I dunno.
20131219 17:22:01< celticminstrel> Whatever.
20131219 17:22:07< Rhonda> lol ;)
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20131219 17:22:39< Rhonda> The box contains a clear image of wesnoth, and they claim protected IP and being copyrighted for the box image.
20131219 17:22:50< JoachimBeinhart> check this out: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html interresting....
20131219 17:22:53< zookeeper> yeah that's a nice little mistake
20131219 17:23:52< tdk27> zookeeper: yeah, it's right on the edge I think
20131219 17:24:00< tdk27> depends exactl how they're defining the box image
20131219 17:24:04< Rhonda> JoachimBeinhart: I know that, that's why I mentioned the GNU Software and RMS  :)
20131219 17:24:57< JoachimBeinhart> Yeah. but still seems like a dick move to sell the game for money. Oh well.
20131219 17:25:18< tdk27> personally, I don't like people doing it - but it's quite important for the GPL that they have the right to do so. The GPL lets you do pretty much anything with a piece of GPLed software apart from restrict other people from doing what they want with their copy
20131219 17:26:28< Rhonda> tdk27: And that's the ground BSD people disagree with GPL people on "let you do pretty much anything" ;)
20131219 17:26:46< zookeeper> sure it's a dick move to do so while intentionally withholding the information that you can actually get it for free
20131219 17:26:46< tdk27> Rhonda: indeed
20131219 17:27:57< tdk27> zookeeper: although a simple "hm, I want to read a review of this wesnoth game, guess I'll google it" will tell you that
20131219 17:28:55< zookeeper> tdk27, yes, which basically means that only a few clueless people will buy it and it's only ~£6 so it's not a big deal.
20131219 17:30:54< tdk27> I'd prefer the pitch to be "this is the program. this program is free software, and can be downloaded for free as source. what we are selling you is a nicely printed CD copy with a good installer to make it quick and easy to get up and running, for a very reasonable price"
20131219 17:31:00< tdk27> but eh, the world sucks sometimes 
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20131219 17:33:21< tdk27> speaking of this, I should actually pick up wesnoth for android
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20131219 17:37:04< Rhonda> tdk27: Where is the free as in beer apk for it?  ;)
20131219 17:37:30< tdk27> Rhonda: well, that was why I thought of it, as I'm about to pay money for free software :P
20131219 17:37:53< Rhonda> For free software you even contributed yourself to, didn't you :)
20131219 17:38:22< tdk27> (well, probably, assuming it works sensibly with my hardware)
20131219 17:38:33< Rhonda> I think it's stuck at 1.8
20131219 17:38:50< tdk27> there's a couple of versions, one at 1.8 and another that seems to be at 1.10
20131219 17:40:00< Rhonda> oh, indeed
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20131219 17:40:39< tdk27> so I'm poking the 1.10 version to see if it works with my hardware keyboard and mouse (asus transformer prime)
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20131219 22:03:09< blarumyrran> Hello!
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 20 00:00:40 2013