--- Log opened Fri Jan 17 00:00:02 2014
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20140117 02:18:30< assassin> how much time does it usually take to complete my first build
20140117 02:18:47< bumbadadabum> can take a while
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20140117 02:21:31< AI0867> assassin: on a truly terrible machine (think the earliest EeePC models), it can take hours
20140117 02:21:47< assassin> i have a dual core with 2 gb ram
20140117 02:22:05< assassin> 1 hr should be max
20140117 02:22:27< assassin> i should just get a coffee while my pc is at it
20140117 02:22:37< AI0867> "dual core" has existed for a while, it doesn't really tell us how fast those cores are
20140117 02:23:05< bumbadadabum> I usually do something else while it compiles
20140117 02:23:06< AI0867> but yeah, your guess sounds about right
20140117 02:23:23< bumbadadabum> and forget about it entirely and realize 4 hours later I was compiling wesnoth
20140117 02:23:51< assassin> anyways i am planning to do some easytocode problems from last years GSoC list
20140117 02:24:04< assassin> And i think i wanna work on AI
20140117 02:24:19< assassin> but i dont have any prior knowledge of AI
20140117 02:24:31< assassin> what do you guys suggest i should learn before digging into the code
20140117 02:27:56< AI0867> I'd poke mattsc, he's currently doing a lot of work there
20140117 02:31:37< assassin> okay, thanx
20140117 02:33:55< Turuk> If it doesn't compile
20140117 02:33:58< Turuk> We can rebuild it.
20140117 02:34:01< Turuk> We have the technology.
20140117 02:34:19< bumbadadabum> I saw that was coming
20140117 02:34:53< Turuk> bumbadadabum: You know me well enough
20140117 02:34:57< Turuk> I can't resist that one
20140117 02:35:11< vultraz> Is that a joke I'm missin
20140117 02:35:13< vultraz> g
20140117 02:35:36< Turuk> vultraz: You're too young
20140117 02:35:44< Turuk> Technically, I am too
20140117 02:35:46< Turuk> But still
20140117 02:35:46< Turuk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six_Million_Dollar_Man
20140117 02:36:54< vultraz> uh hu
20140117 02:36:58< vultraz> never heard of it
20140117 02:37:29< vultraz> I don't remember anything before 2000 except some fireworks at the end of 1999
20140117 02:37:37< Turuk> ......
20140117 02:37:45< Turuk> Were you born in the 90s at least?
20140117 02:38:06< vultraz> 1997
20140117 02:38:10< Turuk> whew
20140117 02:39:31< vultraz> After that I don't remember much until what, 2004?
20140117 02:39:50< vultraz> Well I remember 9/11. But that's basically it
20140117 02:40:20< Turuk> Eh, that's not so bad
20140117 02:42:37< vultraz> sometimes regret not remembering 1/1/2000, since that's the most special new year I will be alive for
20140117 02:42:43< vultraz> I assume you remember it
20140117 02:43:03< Turuk> Mostly
20140117 02:43:28< vultraz> Good god you were 12
20140117 02:44:03-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 210 bugs, 341 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140117 02:53:29< Turuk> 12?
20140117 02:53:41< Turuk> I would have been just shy of 
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20140117 02:55:50< AI0867> a few days short here too
20140117 02:58:46< mattsc> 12?  I don't remember that.  That was decades ago!
20140117 02:58:58< mattsc> ... and maybe I'm kidding and maybe not ...
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20140117 03:14:18< assassin> this might sound moronic 
20140117 03:14:27< assassin> but i can't get the player to move
20140117 03:15:36< assassin> It says left click here and when i do nothing happens
20140117 03:15:54< assassin> is because is in development?
20140117 03:16:52< assassin> forget it
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20140117 03:17:01< assassin> it was just to right click
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20140117 03:27:37< AI0867> assassin: that's the experimental new control scheme. You can change it by reassigning some hotkeys
20140117 03:27:42< AI0867> there are instructions on the forums
20140117 03:27:50< AI0867> and yeah, nobody bothered to adapt the tutorial
20140117 03:28:35< assassin> hey!! you play a game first time you alteast gotta know how it works
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20140117 10:00:46< irker067> wesnoth: Allefant wesnoth-old:master e9430a02d1c6 / data/tools/wmlunits: [wmlunits] increase timeout for parsing user addons http://git.io/2IbfRw
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20140117 10:37:49< irker067> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:1.10 46b42f754bd2 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/gHNY9Q
20140117 10:40:04< irker067> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master c7de5ce96801 / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: lay groundwork for recognizing unstored units http://git.io/7PBqbg
20140117 10:40:06< irker067> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master 6aa8d86b3e5d / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: recognize unstored units http://git.io/J3v1Nw
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20140117 11:02:53< irker067> wesnoth: Groggy Dice wesnoth-old:master e059677112cd / data/tools/wmllint: wmllint: take out testing lines http://git.io/hxSdbA
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20140117 16:10:43< Espreon> Hello, everyone.
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20140117 16:16:19< Espreon> Could someone move the wiki article at "Wesnoth-in-Valencian" to "ValencianRACVTranslation" or whatever?
20140117 16:16:23< Espreon> zookeeper: ^
20140117 16:16:33< Espreon> Crendgrim: ^
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20140117 16:43:20< irker289> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 8e68a0c5da19 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/08_Silent_Forest.cfg: SotBE S8: some balance tweaks http://git.io/TForNw
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20140117 17:14:02< irker289> wesnoth: Allefant wesnoth-old:master 0c4cd5a3372c / data/tools/wmlunits: [wmlunits] implemented dependencies support http://git.io/I04KRA
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20140117 18:25:14< AI0867> 17:16 < Espreon> Could someone move the wiki article at "Wesnoth-in-Valencian" to "ValencianRACVTranslation" or whatever? <-- I'd even say make it just 'RACVTranslation', if that's what it is
20140117 18:28:03< Crendgrim> Espreon: moved to RACVTranslation, left the redirect. Remove that if you deem it necessary.
20140117 18:30:14< Espreon> 'K
20140117 18:32:04< Espreon> Crendgrim: Thanks.
20140117 18:40:16< mattsc> Sigh.  The ON_SIGHTING macro is broken in 1.11.8 too.
20140117 18:45:27< AI0867> in case you've forgotten: https://www.mail-archive.com/wesnoth-dev@gna.org/msg02867.html
20140117 18:51:33< Espreon> I do remember that.
20140117 18:52:08< Espreon> Though, I'm not condemning anyone until I see the linguistic differences.
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20140117 18:58:03< mattsc> Looks like it's the [filter_vision] tag here that's giving a false positive: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/data/core/macros/event-utils.cfg#L116
20140117 18:58:13< mattsc> But I don't know why.
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20140117 19:17:31< zookeeper> mattsc, i'll make a wild guess: someone changed its behavior and didn't bother to do the rest.
20140117 19:19:37< mattsc> zookeeper: I'm not sure.  I found this bug in the meantime (which I now remember having seen before): https://gna.org/bugs/?21306
20140117 19:20:02< mattsc> Looks like there might be something wrong with filter_vision in general.
20140117 19:20:26< mattsc> ... but the underlying reason for that might, of course, be what you're guessing.
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20140117 19:31:02< mattsc> Well, I found that it is boolean variable not_hiding here: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/unit.cpp#L1571
20140117 19:31:55< mattsc> that seems to cause the problem.  But I still don't know why.
20140117 19:38:36< mattsc> Ah, crap, I know what's going on.  It's because this is a unit that is hiding on this terrain anyway, that somehow now counts as a "double-hiding" which somehow negates itself.
20140117 19:38:40< mattsc> Or something.  :P
20140117 19:39:01< mattsc> It's a wose moving onto forest terrain under fog that triggers the sighting event.
20140117 19:42:52< zookeeper> right
20140117 19:44:24< mattsc> I think the logic in line 1572 is wrong, but I haven't fully understood it yet.
20140117 19:49:13< mattsc> zookeeper: may I blather at you for a moment to see if I understand what this is supposed to do?
20140117 19:50:15< mattsc> [filter_vision]visible=yes (the default) checks simply whether a unit's location is under fog or not, right?
20140117 19:52:04< mattsc> In my test case (SotBE S8, btw), I have visible=1 and not_fogged=0, so the first part of the condition in l.1572 is true, as it should be.
20140117 19:52:28< mattsc> In other words, it's under fog, and therefore the unit is invisible
20140117 19:53:25< mattsc> Now, in addition, it checks whether the unit is "not hiding".  That's wrong ...
20140117 19:54:59< mattsc> zookeeper: I guess the part I do not understand (and the wiki doesn't help) is what visible=no is supposed to do in [filter_vision]
20140117 19:56:15< mattsc> Is it supposed to check whether the hex is not under fog/shroud, or whether the unit is not hidden on the terrain
20140117 19:59:24 * zookeeper is back
20140117 20:01:15< zookeeper> mattsc, well according to the wiki, the SUF [filter_vision] should check for all forms of visibility; whether the unit is visible to viewing_side or not
20140117 20:01:42< zookeeper> in SLF it of course should/can only check for fog/shroud
20140117 20:02:27< mattsc> zookeeper: it's the SUF that I am concerned with at the moment.  Let me make a matrix really quickly to see if I understand it correctly.
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20140117 20:03:38< zookeeper> also i hope viewing_side hasn't been _removed_ yet.
20140117 20:04:03< mattsc> zookeeper: it has.  AI0867 did that.
20140117 20:04:22< zookeeper> right. that's unfortunately and as usual, completely unnecessary AFAICT.
20140117 20:05:02< zookeeper> anyway...
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20140117 20:06:11< zookeeper> mattsc, i believe [filter_vision] visible=no should be the same as [not] [filter_vision] visible=yes
20140117 20:07:26< zookeeper> the wiki explains it so confusingly that i don't know what the intent's been
20140117 20:07:32< mattsc> zookeeper: so like this?  http://pastebin.com/SPmT9uAD
20140117 20:08:19< mattsc> sorry, disregard that.
20140117 20:08:50< mattsc> This is what I meant: http://pastebin.com/BYpwczfV
20140117 20:09:05< zookeeper> yes, better :P
20140117 20:09:24< zookeeper> that's correct unless i missed something
20140117 20:10:13< mattsc> so, in my test case, 1. gives true  (which it has to if you look at the code line)
20140117 20:12:33< zookeeper> yeah, that's obviously a bug, not that i can help with fixing it... :p
20140117 20:12:36< mattsc> No wonder sighted events have never worked ...
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20140117 20:14:55< mattsc> Well, for that code line, we need to find all the falses.  So:
20140117 20:15:56< mattsc> not (not_fogged and not_hidden); invert when visbile=no is set
20140117 20:16:15< mattsc> or:
20140117 20:16:32< mattsc> (fogged or hidden); invert when visible=no
20140117 20:18:54< mattsc> Anybody opposed to me changing that?
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20140117 20:23:15< AI0867> 21:04 < mattsc> zookeeper: it has.  AI0867 did that. <-- I don't remember doing that
20140117 20:24:10< zookeeper> mattsc, i don't think anyone would like to keep the current brokenness :p
20140117 20:24:14< zookeeper> not for any good reasons anyway
20140117 20:24:27< mattsc> AI0867: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/89714490d32c769ee0ed80143ac47b5b2a8aa073
20140117 20:24:54< AI0867> oh, I did
20140117 20:25:05< AI0867> yeah, I was looking at the logs, and skipped over it
20140117 20:26:39< zookeeper> i don't see the point of such removals at all. the old code is completely isolated and as long as other internal changes don't require updating it, there's no drawback to keeping it.
20140117 20:26:42< mattsc> zookeeper: this seems to do it:  http://pastebin.com/T7NCf0ep
20140117 20:27:22< mattsc> And yes, I could probably cut a line or two out of it using xor or something, but then it becomes pretty much non-understandable again.
20140117 20:28:44< mattsc> Anyways, I haven't tested all 8 combinations yet and I really need to do some work now, but unless I hear otherwise by tonight, I'll test this some more and then commit it.
20140117 20:36:53< zookeeper> can't you just do if (visible != unit_hidden) return false;?
20140117 20:36:59< zookeeper> or is that ==... urgh, i can't tell
20140117 20:38:03< mattsc> oh, duh!  Yes, indeed.
20140117 20:38:25< zookeeper> i was going to suggest "if ((visible && unit_hidden) || (!visible && !unit_hidden)) return false;" but then that symmetry caught my eye and...
20140117 20:39:28< mattsc> :)  thanks
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20140117 20:40:13< mattsc> I wonder how many vision filter and sighted event bugs this is going to fix ...  :P
20140117 20:47:49< AI0867> zookeeper: I simply removed something that had been deprecated over a year earlier and had been throwing warnings at everyone who used it since
20140117 21:09:48< zookeeper> AI0867, yes
20140117 21:12:16< zookeeper> my point is: what was the benefit? why do we constantly keep dropping support for this or that thing when there is not benefit to it and there'd be no drawback to keeping the support?
20140117 21:12:24< zookeeper> s/not/no
20140117 21:13:54< zookeeper> it's not like you need to remove something simply because it's been marked as deprecated.
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20140117 21:32:50< shadowm> wesbot: seen fabi 
20140117 21:32:51< wesbot> shadowm: Queried user last spoke 9d 2h ago.  fabi is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
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20140117 21:42:53< AI0867> zookeeper: the point of deprecation is that we *want* to remove it. I'm not sure why in this case, but there can be conflicts with other features, or planned features, or just 10 different ways to do the same thing
20140117 21:45:59< fabi> shadowm: hi
20140117 21:46:04< fabi> _8680_: ping
20140117 21:46:19< _8680_> fabi, pong.
20140117 21:46:23< shadowm> fabi: Yes, hello.
20140117 21:46:30< shadowm> ltns etc.
20140117 21:47:21< fabi> _8680_: Please give me a link to the "zerovirus-era". I had no luck finding it at github :-)
20140117 21:47:36< _8680_> <https://github.com/search?q=zerovirus-era>
20140117 21:47:46< _8680_> There’s nothing there yet, though.
20140117 21:48:04< _8680_> Zerovirus hasn’t sent me anything.
20140117 21:48:07< fabi> _8680_: Have there been any attempt on the not-zerg?
20140117 21:49:40< fabi> Some ideas or concepts in a different thread I don't know of, maybe.
20140117 21:49:58< _8680_> Other than what’s in <http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=26527&start=225>, I don’t know. I haven’t received any communication from Zerovirus since <http://r.wesnoth.org/p565333>.
20140117 21:51:19< zookeeper> AI0867, exactly, there _can_ be. there's no reason to remove until that need actually presents itself.
20140117 21:51:47< zookeeper> maybe it happens that it never happens, and thus the breakage never needs to happen. everyone wins.
20140117 21:52:36< fabi> _8680_:  Well, I have a concept for the "flesh contagion". With some unit coding already. Do you like to discuss it?
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20140117 21:55:37< irker287> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:1.10 7b5af81f35c3 / / (12 files in 11 dirs): updated Scottish Gaelic translation http://git.io/CzE8hQ
20140117 21:55:55< irker287> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 61fb0c0a8b69 / / (11 files in 10 dirs): updated Scottish Gaelic translation http://git.io/vH3uiA
20140117 21:56:11< shadowm> Has any of you read my email to the developers ML or am I somehow invisible there?
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20140117 21:58:08 * zookeeper read it
20140117 21:59:31< mattsc> shadowm: I read it, but I have no use- or meaningful input
20140117 22:00:23< shadowm> See, I don't even know who is supposed to provide meaningful input anymore since Ivanovic and esr have been inactive for so long.
20140117 22:00:59< Ivanovic> and i really have no input
20140117 22:01:09< shadowm> Wow, great.
20140117 22:01:09< Ivanovic> i got no real idea what should/has to still be done about the git repo
20140117 22:01:49< shadowm> Here's what should be done about it: NOTHING. Besides renaming it.
20140117 22:02:10< shadowm> Anything other than that is bound to piss someone off.
20140117 22:02:34< Ivanovic> will not even renaming piss someone off?
20140117 22:02:45< shadowm> Not really IIRC.
20140117 22:02:46< Ivanovic> so the only name right now is the "wrong" -old at the end, right?
20140117 22:05:18< shadowm> The current name is wesnoth-old.
20140117 22:06:29< zookeeper> rename away
20140117 22:07:03< shadowm> I don't want to do that unless I'm guaranteed that nobody will suddenly force-push a new repository with incompatible refs into it.
20140117 22:07:08< Ivanovic> ehm, the only problem with the name
20140117 22:10:52< Ivanovic> anyway, i am freaking tired and heading to bed now
20140117 22:10:53< Ivanovic> n8
20140117 22:17:33< AI0867> zookeeper: I listed 3 possible reasons, prefixed with "there can be". The first reason was "conflicts with other features"
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20140117 22:20:55< cib0> Hm, can't seem to find a straightforward way to edit a unit's [variables] from lua..
20140117 22:23:00< zookeeper> AI0867, well did i ignore that somehow?
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20140117 22:25:46< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#1499 (1.10 - 7b5af81 : Nils Kneuper): The build is still failing.
20140117 22:25:46< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/17155926
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20140117 22:30:15< _8680_> cib0: Do you want to edit [unit][variables]foo, or [unit][variables][foo]bar? The former can be edited directly: `unit_proxy.variables.foo = 5`; the latter would require dumping the unit’s variables’ cfg (`local vars_cfg = unit_proxy.variables.__cfg`), then operating on that, then assigning it back to the unit proxy (`unit_proxy.variables.__cfg = vars_cfg`).
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20140117 22:34:15< cib0> ... oh
20140117 22:35:08< cib0> Odd, I thought I'd tried that. It works, yes, thanks.
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20140117 22:43:15< cib0> Hm.. looks like set_menu_item is persistent throughout multiple scenarios
20140117 22:44:33< zookeeper> durr. it looks like a custom profile= is not retained when leveling up... on 1.10
20140117 22:45:13< zookeeper> good grief, how does something like that go unnoticed/fixed for that long? assuming i'm not just missing some mistake of my own.
20140117 22:55:14< shadowm> Coffee_irc: What's the layer used for unit frames during animations such as attack?
20140117 22:55:48< Coffee_irc> shadowm: from memory I think 40, but not sure
20140117 22:55:59< Coffee_irc> is there a bug?
20140117 22:56:27< shadowm> No.
20140117 22:56:36< shadowm> I hope.
20140117 22:57:01< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Is it intentional that x,y offsets applied to the baseframe in standing animations affect ellipses and stat bars?
20140117 22:57:20< Coffee_irc> shadowm: not that I'm aware
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20140117 22:57:39< shadowm> Unless it's tied to the terrain elevation mechanism.
20140117 23:05:27< AI0867> zookeeper: well, your response seemed to indicate you had misread my sentence, though that doesn't really change much
20140117 23:05:27< zookeeper> what the... if a unit starts a turn with >max xp, it'll level up automatically but _without_ firing at least post advance events D: wtf is wrong with 1.10
20140117 23:06:16< AI0867> what? I thought this only happened at combat conclusion or [unstore_unit]advance=yes
20140117 23:06:52< zookeeper> hmh
20140117 23:07:10< zookeeper> maybe the unit is getting unstored at side turn and advances because of that
20140117 23:07:15< zookeeper> sounds likely, in fact
20140117 23:07:41< zookeeper> will check in a moment
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20140117 23:16:57< Coffee_irc> shadowm: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML#Layering
20140117 23:17:23< shadowm> The information there is bogus or incomplete.
20140117 23:17:29< Coffee_irc> well, yeah :P
20140117 23:17:40< Coffee_irc> but it is what shold happen I think
20140117 23:17:43< Coffee_irc> *should
20140117 23:17:47< shadowm> It's evident to anyone paying attention that attack animations do not use the same layer as standing animations.
20140117 23:18:04< Coffee_irc> yeah, I think it gets bumped up for bridges and such
20140117 23:18:33< shadowm> Castles.
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20140117 23:32:42< shadowm> The defaults for pre_teleport and post_teleport listed there are also wrong.
20140117 23:33:42< shadowm> fabi: So, what do you think of those bugs?
20140117 23:35:30< shadowm> Coffee_irc: It also seems that pre_teleport_anim and post_teleport_anim aren't recognized.
20140117 23:35:55< zookeeper> AI0867, yeah, it's only unstoring which triggers levelup without events.
20140117 23:35:58< shadowm> Although it is still possible to define those animations using the legacy [animation] tag.
20140117 23:36:20< zookeeper> AI0867, do you know off the top of your head whether it's fixed in 1.11?
20140117 23:36:24< zookeeper> (or anyone else)
20140117 23:37:40< zookeeper> funny how the wiki says the inverse, "Note that advance and post advance events are called"
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20140117 23:40:08< vultraz> fabi: 
20140117 23:40:52< shadowm> fabi: I'm talking specifically of https://gna.org/bugs/?21489 .
20140117 23:52:55< AI0867> zookeeper: I didn't know about this bug, so I'm guessing not
20140117 23:55:18< zookeeper> AI0867, okay... i haven't tested myself
--- Log closed Sat Jan 18 00:00:04 2014