--- Log opened Mon Feb 10 00:00:09 2014
20140210 00:00:21-!- Velensk [~Velensk@cpe-75-187-86-211.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140210 00:00:30< Velensk> Where is the best place to report bugs?
20140210 00:03:13-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140210 00:03:40< fendrin> Velensk: in here or at bugs.wesnoth.org
20140210 00:04:23< fendrin> Velensk: Both is good approach since this gets the bug faster assigned to the developer who can fix it best or caused it.
20140210 00:04:35< fendrin> Combining both
20140210 00:05:36< Velensk> Alright, playing a typical multiplayer game on new version consistantly gave OOS errors. Particuarly when the enemy leader became involved in combat.
20140210 00:05:46< Velensk> several multiplayer games*
20140210 00:06:13< fendrin> Which version of the game did show the error?
20140210 00:06:24< Velensk> 1.11.9
20140210 00:07:27< fendrin> mattsc might know something about it. I saw him dealing with OOS stuff caused by new AI features.
20140210 00:08:13< mattsc> I did?  Hmm, I must be getting old too ...
20140210 00:08:26< Velensk> There was no AI in the game in case that makes a difference.
20140210 00:08:46< fendrin> My fault.
20140210 00:09:21< mattsc> fendrin: no, that's quite possible.  It faintly rings a bell, but I just don't remember right now.  :)
20140210 00:10:56< mattsc> Velensk: Well, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the Micro AIs might occasionally cause OOS errors, but I am not 100% sure (I'll have that sorted out before 1.12.0, just haven't had time for it).  But the default AI should not cause any, AFAIK.
20140210 00:11:06< mattsc> Not that it matters to your problem, just saying ...
20140210 00:12:02< mattsc> Velensk: any way to reproduce this reliably to figure out what might be causing it?
20140210 00:12:51< Velensk> Well, it could just be my opponent trying to get ahead, but if not just play a standard multiplayer game with someone and it should pop up.
20140210 00:13:20< Velensk> It showed up pretty consistantly every time I tried to play multiplayer but I only had one opponent for all 3 games I played
20140210 00:14:26< Velensk> It seemed to me to happen most often when the enemy leader would be involved in combat.
20140210 00:15:03< mattsc> Velensk: hmm, I'd probably see if it happens against another opponent as well (or in a locally hosted MP game against yourself) and then file a bug report.
20140210 00:15:19< mattsc> That way the people who know these things best can have a look at it.
20140210 00:15:43< Velensk> I'll certainly wait to confirm it before reporting it but I wanted to know how.
20140210 00:16:43< fendrin> shadowm: https://gna.org/bugs/?19513 your last comment, I don't get it.
20140210 00:16:43< mattsc> I think the way you did is what I would have done too.  Ask here to see if it's known.  Since it isn't, file a bug report.
20140210 00:18:29< Velensk> On a related note: Is there a way to cancel unit orders (for future turns), in 1.11.9? I know in the stable version that you just click on the unit again and click on the hex it's standing on but that doesn't seem to work in the new version.
20140210 00:18:42< Velensk> unrelated*
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20140210 00:19:49< fendrin> Velensk: That would be mine. I will take care about it.
20140210 00:19:51< happygrue> Velensk: did you notice on the OOS popup if one unit was the repeated cause?
20140210 00:21:43< Velensk> I can't say for certain that one unit was the cause however errors involved things like recruiting with no empty castle hexes, unknown attack source, unknown movement source ect. There was one point where he moved a unit off a village so that he could attack me with his leader from it but my game didn't show his leader move. After that anytime any unit of mine ran past that point it spat out another error
20140210 00:21:52< shadowm> fendrin: What do you not get it about it?
20140210 00:22:03< shadowm> s/get it/get/
20140210 00:22:12< fendrin> The missing partial and off entries.
20140210 00:22:19< fendrin> Where are they missing?
20140210 00:22:39< shadowm> I don't see the word 'missing' there, only 'exist' and 'hidden'.
20140210 00:22:42< Velensk> However, they only ever seemed to pop up when I was fighting close to the enemy leader which is why I mention it
20140210 00:22:47< fendrin> hidden
20140210 00:23:01< shadowm> I assume that with your changes, the hidden entries are using differently in a way that solves the bug.
20140210 00:23:08< shadowm> Er, s/using/used/
20140210 00:23:45< shadowm> Meaning that they are used in the menus, but not in the hotkeys list.
20140210 00:24:53< fendrin> Yes, that is okay so. They are used in menus but it is not really useful to assign hotkeys to them. 
20140210 00:26:20< shadowm> Uh.
20140210 00:26:45< shadowm> I assigned some command ñ as a hotkey (it's got a key of its own on Latin American and Spanish keyboard layouts).
20140210 00:26:54< shadowm> It's displayed as "world 81".
20140210 00:27:17< fendrin> Same for German Umlaute. öäüß
20140210 00:27:50< shadowm> Anyway, it seems that assigning the transitions toggle a hotkey and using it only works for enabling transitions, not toggling between enabled, partial, and disabled.
20140210 00:28:15< shadowm> Not that I see much use in assigning any of those three hotkeys.
20140210 00:29:34< fendrin> Ah yes, I can see that as well. Let me have a look at it.
20140210 00:30:25< shadowm> I was going to suggest it be added to the list of bugs that are so rare and innocuous they don't need to be fixed.
20140210 00:31:06< shadowm> Or need to be fixed but also serve as useful homework for prospective contributors, e.g. GSoC students.
20140210 00:33:07< mattsc> Velensk: I don't have time to your latest post right now, but no, that's not how the CA system works.
20140210 00:33:49< mattsc> The aspects (such as village_value) only affect things within a CA (for the most part, at least).  They do not change the order in which the CAs are executed.
20140210 00:34:13< mattsc> I can reply to the post later, but not right now.
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20140210 00:34:24< fendrin> shadowm: Oh no. I know exactly where to look at and it is already done.
20140210 00:34:25< mattsc> *time to reply to
20140210 00:34:27< Velensk> If I get a short answer here you may not need to
20140210 00:34:42< mattsc> Well, the short answer is: no, that won't work
20140210 00:35:11< Velensk> It is going to be something that I need to actually mess around with the AI and not just something where I can play around with the Parameters is what I'm getting out of this.
20140210 00:35:55< fendrin> shadowm: The Umlaute thing is beyond my scope. There is no better information from libsdl about them (aifak) and thus I can't fix it. Maybe libsdl2.0 is the only solution without using some external translation of the codes.
20140210 00:36:10< mattsc> Well, you can play with the CA scores.  Or you could try whether the Goto Micro AI does it for you.  But if neither of those work the way you want to, then yes, that's what you're up against...
20140210 00:36:36< shadowm> fendrin: Yes, SDL 2 is the solution to far too many bugs, unfortunately. :( I understand.
20140210 00:37:23< mattsc> There is a village grabbing CA in our experimental AIs though (both Fred and Ron, I believe), so you might be able to lift it from there if you need to, but I'd try the other approaches first.
20140210 00:38:23< fendrin> There was a nice speech about qt in games at FOSDEM. This approach might replace sdl and gui2 with one porting approach.
20140210 00:38:59< Velensk> The behavior I'm looking for is not critical. I have the scenario set up in such a way that it works just fine now, however just a slight tweak would make it a bit more difficult
20140210 00:39:40< fendrin> shadowm: Or hardcoding what every world xx means. If organized in a forum community attempt, this can work.
20140210 00:40:20< mattsc> Velensk: Well, I'd suggest to try out the MAI.  And if it almost works, but not quite, let me know and I'll see what I can do about it.
20140210 00:41:43< shadowm> fendrin: That doesn't seem particularly worthwhile to me. I just tried assigning ñ in Windows and I get... 
20140210 00:42:02< fendrin> ...world 81
20140210 00:42:17< shadowm> I'm getting ".
20140210 00:42:30< shadowm> Or ', hard to tell with the awful font rendering on Windows.
20140210 00:42:48< shadowm> Oh, I'm getting an unprintable character!
20140210 00:43:28< fendrin> Yes, that gives me hope. We are doing not as bad as Microsoft.
20140210 00:44:07< shadowm> NO wait, that's not accurate. I'm getting a character that screws up the ' "foo" is in use by "bar". Do you wish to reassign it to "baz"? ' text and turns it into ' " '.
20140210 00:44:34< shadowm> I'm getting ñ.
20140210 00:44:38< shadowm> 20140209 21:42:02 error gui/layout: ttext::set_text text '"ñ" is in use by "Continue Network Game". Do you wish to reassign it to "Custom Command"?' contains invalid utf-8, trimmed the invalid parts.
20140210 00:45:12< shadowm> fendrin: I think it's platform-dependent and Wesnoth is getting the actual character in Windows, just in the incorrect encoding (CP 1252 instead of UTF-8).
20140210 00:46:10< shadowm> In CP 1252 it's a one-byte character between 0x80 and 0xFF, hence invalid UTF-8.
20140210 00:46:39< fendrin> Yeah, hmmm.
20140210 00:47:05< fendrin> Windows bugs are not exactly my field...
20140210 00:47:14< fendrin> I would have to buy a version first.
20140210 00:48:08< fendrin> Which makes me a bad person to work on all that hotkey stuff.
20140210 00:48:40< fendrin> I think I need to buy a Windows and get my hands on the mac as well...
20140210 00:49:01< fendrin> At least when I modify that low level stuff.
20140210 00:49:04< shadowm> If only that were all it took to solve some of our Windows bugs. I have Windows here but I've been unable to understand why mixing ClearType and Cairo (but not freetype) results in awful font rendering in Wesnoth... mostly because I don't even know how Cairo works/is supposed to be used (on Windows).
20140210 00:49:46< shadowm> Or how to build a newer version.
20140210 00:50:28< fendrin> Well, Windows devs would know.
20140210 00:50:59< vultraz_old> Why is it that Wesnoth's fonts look so great on OS X?
20140210 00:51:34< fendrin> vultraz_old: Please make me a sceenshot. :-)
20140210 00:52:05< fendrin> Okay, I have the UI layout fixed, hopefully the final and last time.
20140210 00:53:25< shadowm> vultraz_old: But IIRC it suffers from the same issue as in Windows, consecutive linebreaks are somehow collapsed into one.
20140210 00:53:51< shadowm> Which makes campaign descriptions (and AtS story text!) look significantly less good.
20140210 00:53:53< mattsc> shadowm: that's correct.
20140210 00:53:59< vultraz_old> fendrin: this was taken on OS X: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/current_inventory.png
20140210 00:54:08< shadowm> Which reminds me I should file a bug.
20140210 00:54:15< fendrin> Linux live cd iso images with wesnoth starting at once would be cool. Just insert disc and play.
20140210 00:54:23< vultraz_old> shadowm: I did not observe that on OS X
20140210 00:54:36< fendrin> Like in good old amiga times.
20140210 00:54:47< shadowm> vultraz_old, matsc: Hm, perhaps you are using different Pango and/or Cairo versions?
20140210 00:55:25< mattsc> shadowm: I don't think so.  The pango/cairo version that have come with the OS X build are way out of date and have not been changed in ages.
20140210 00:55:33< vultraz_old> When I was building I used what was in the maccompilestuff zip
20140210 00:55:38< shadowm> Also, I have to admit I don't know what it looks like with the official Windows build, only my C::B build.
20140210 00:55:53< fendrin> vultraz_old: Well, that is not exactly a dialog which is easy for me to reproduce :-)
20140210 00:58:32< vultraz_old> fendrin: mattsc could provide you with a screenshot of the main menu; the difference is very evident vs Windows
20140210 01:00:30< mattsc> vultraz_old: you mean this?  http://imagebin.org/292353
20140210 01:01:01< vultraz_old> yeah
20140210 01:01:05< shadowm> vultraz_old: "Great" with fonts is highly subjective. To me, the command buttons there look like crap.
20140210 01:01:40< vultraz_old> Different from Windows, at any rate
20140210 01:01:47< mattsc> vultraz_old: as for what shadowm mentioned, if you put an empty line into a message (or similar), there will be no empty line in what's displayed.
20140210 01:02:06< vultraz_old> And IMO, cleaner
20140210 01:02:16< shadowm> I greatly prefer Windows' font rendering to Linux's or what I've seen from OS X.
20140210 01:02:17< mattsc> You can put a line into it that is empty except for a space, that works, but neither my editor nor wmlindent like that.
20140210 01:03:09< fendrin> shadowm: Isn't fond rendering even different between kde and gnome?
20140210 01:03:18< shadowm> But I might be biased because I was raised looking at Windows' fonts and its method of rendering them.
20140210 01:03:36< shadowm> Back in those days antialiasing didn't even exist.
20140210 01:03:43< shadowm> In Windows.
20140210 01:04:14< shadowm> fendrin: In my experience, no. What differs from them is the way they handle font rendering configuration.
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20140210 01:06:29< shadowm> There's an awful truth hidden beneath KDE and Gnome, and it is that X11 is a pile of ugly hacks held together by bodily fluids. As a corollary, font rendering and font rendering configuration is a disorganized n-dimensional mess that tends to be implemented differently by different toolkits.
20140210 01:07:06< fendrin> shadowm: For placing the markers on the bigmaps of your campaigns, do you use trackplacer, zookeeper's tool or do it handish?
20140210 01:07:19< shadowm> I know that people like to praise the Linux ecosystem's heterogeneity, but in this case people appear to just enjoy reinventing wheels.
20140210 01:07:27< vultraz_old> He doesn't use bigmaps
20140210 01:07:41< fendrin> ah
20140210 01:07:49< fendrin> too bad
20140210 01:08:07< fendrin> I would love to see a after the fall bigmap.
20140210 01:08:40< shadowm> So, for some reason that can be tracked back to the way they ask for font rendering, KDE and Gnome have different notions of a default LCD antialiasing filter, for example.
20140210 01:09:51< shadowm> There are also several relevant configuration places for (at least) KDE, inclduing fontconfig and X11's defaults.
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20140210 01:10:39< vultraz_old> I believe he had a draft of one several years back
20140210 01:10:43< shadowm> Either of those can be configured either globally or for each user. Some KDE applications appear to have problems deciding which set of defaults to use at a given time depending, presumably, on whether KDE has completed its initialization or not.
20140210 01:10:47< vultraz_old> It was once used in IftU before being removed
20140210 01:11:01< shadowm> kwina and plasma appear to prefer the system's defaults instead of my own.
20140210 01:12:48< shadowm> And ultimately, I see a lot of font rendering both in Chrome and Firefox that looks plain awful.
20140210 01:13:33< shadowm> On Linux. Haven't used either enough on Windows to know how it compares.
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20140210 01:14:02< shadowm> tl;dr font rendering tastes are subjective.
20140210 01:14:38< shadowm> Incidentally, in Wesnoth we have two distinct font rendering paths: GUI1 on SDL_ttf, and GUI2 on Pango/Cairo.
20140210 01:15:20< shadowm> GUI2 respects fontconfig's settings in regards to hinting style and subpixel hinting format, which can look jarring compared to GUI1, which doesn't.
20140210 01:16:14< shadowm> In fact, that problem is especially evident on Windows because SDL_ttf doesn't use ClearType, while Cairo does.
20140210 01:17:35< shadowm> The morale of the story is that if you talk to me about font rendering on different platforms/frameworks, you will get crushed under a text wall.
20140210 01:22:19< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-main-menu-debian8-kde.png
20140210 01:22:22< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-main-menu-win81.png
20140210 01:23:14< fendrin> Oh
20140210 01:23:22< fendrin> Windows is ugly as hell.
20140210 01:23:33< shadowm> Cairo with ClearType.
20140210 01:24:25< fendrin> Good to know about all that rendering background. 
20140210 01:24:26< vultraz_old> fendrin: what do you think compared to mattsc's screenshot
20140210 01:24:29< shadowm> The problem can be traced to src/text.cpp line 673. I think the issues with that code should be evident.
20140210 01:25:12< shadowm> Using the non-Windows code path has problems of its own, though, and so does reducing the number of overrendering steps.
20140210 01:25:42< vultraz_old> Of the two shadowm just posted, I'd say the 8.1 one looks superior
20140210 01:25:56< shadowm> vultraz_old: It's _horrible_.
20140210 01:25:59< vultraz_old> The linux one somehow mashes letters too close...
20140210 01:26:17< shadowm> It's not because the fonts are heavier, but because the overpainted antialiasing ends up causing the kerning to seem inconsistent.
20140210 01:26:56< fendrin> vultraz_old: It is pretty much the same as Linux. The mac anti aliasing is a little more blury but not bad.
20140210 01:27:02< shadowm> Unfortunately, I've been unable to find anything in the web pointing at Cairo having problems with ClearType, so I don't know if it's something specific to our usage of it, or because we're on an older version on Windows.
20140210 01:28:15< vultraz_old> Hm. Perhaps it's the AA
20140210 01:28:26< vultraz_old> I just see the OS X rendering as much smoother
20140210 01:28:32< shadowm> vultraz_old: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-main-menu-font-1.png
20140210 01:32:54< shadowm> The difference in rendering with fontconfig set to 'slight' or full' hinting style with no subpixel AA is very noticeable on KDE. On Wesnoth? Not so much.
20140210 01:33:04< shadowm> It's also noticeable with Gtk apps.
20140210 01:33:40< shadowm> So not sure why it doesn't make much of a difference with Wesnoth. However, enable RGB subpixel AA and suddenly the difference is evident on Wesnoth too.
20140210 01:34:31< shadowm> Now, I don't know if it's my bias against RGB subpixel AA at work or not, but Wesnoth seems to handle it worse than every other Gtk or Qt application.
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20140210 01:35:12< shadowm> Even smudgier and the text seems to turn cyan-ish.
20140210 01:36:57< vultraz_old> So I guess the only difference is that OS X uses more AA?
20140210 01:36:59< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-main-menu-font-3.png
20140210 01:37:28< shadowm> vultraz_old: OS X seems to use what I could approximate here by setting the hintstyle to slight and keeping RGB subpixel AA off.
20140210 01:38:00< shadowm> Except in Wesnoth for some weird reason, as I said above.
20140210 01:39:09< shadowm> The hinting algorithm should also make a difference for those who care more about font aesthetics.
20140210 01:40:25< shadowm> As for me, I only want my fonts to look sharp and clean, not smudgy and blurry.
20140210 01:41:01< vultraz_old> I like sharp and clean, but not at the expense if evident jagged lines
20140210 01:41:01< shadowm> Every screenshot of OS X looks smudgy and blurry to me.
20140210 01:41:39< shadowm> And RGB subpixel AA (with freetype at least) is so evident to me, it feels like the text is bleeding colors.
20140210 01:42:16< loonycyborg> color bleeding only happens when incorrect subpixel algo for the monitor is used I think
20140210 01:42:26< shadowm> I've tried all of them.
20140210 01:42:36< shadowm> Also tried different monitors and LCD panels.
20140210 01:42:38< loonycyborg> Or it's rescaled after applying the algorithm
20140210 01:43:16< shadowm> Well, any text that's rescaled after rendering will look bad regardless of the antialiasing algorithm, period.
20140210 01:43:27< loonycyborg> of course
20140210 01:43:28< shadowm> Unless the font was a bitmap font to begin with and the effect is intentional.
20140210 01:43:40< loonycyborg> It's only matter of finding what that happens :P
20140210 01:43:46< loonycyborg> *why
20140210 01:46:42< shadowm> fendrin: To answer your question, I'd like to try drawing a map one of these days (if only for reference), but it'd take me at least a decade or more to get anywhere near the mainline style.
20140210 01:47:00< shadowm> So in the meantime, no big maps for my campaigns.
20140210 01:48:19< vultraz_old> shadowm: why not ask zookeeper to do it
20140210 01:48:44< shadowm> Because I first need to get a draft together.
20140210 01:48:46< shadowm> *put
20140210 01:49:00< shadowm> That's why "if only for reference" above.
20140210 01:49:16< vultraz_old> I'm sure you could make a quick pencil sketch
20140210 01:49:27< shadowm> I have tried.
20140210 01:49:29< vultraz_old> You would have had to had the locations in your head while writing anyway
20140210 01:49:51< shadowm> Only as geometric regions of undefined dimensions.
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20140210 01:50:36< vultraz_old> Just start with the default map, add your locations, then make cataclysmic changes
20140210 01:50:45< vultraz_old> Move stuff around, get rid of some stuff, change the coast
20140210 01:50:47< vultraz_old> etc etc etc
20140210 01:50:55< shadowm> That's pretty much my plan.
20140210 01:51:10< shadowm> The thing is that it's been my plan since as far back as 2008.
20140210 01:51:27< vultraz_old> Then go North, add Realthyan, go east, add the Valley, and you're done
20140210 01:52:39< vultraz_old> Most of the main map is now desert anyay
20140210 01:55:28< vultraz_old> You have two big deserts around Weldyn and Wesmere, some green on the outlying. Add a few forests around there
20140210 01:55:46< vultraz_old> Get rid of the great river, replace it with a smaller lake in the the middle of the map
20140210 01:55:56< vultraz_old> Reduce the size of Gryphon mt.
20140210 01:56:02< shadowm> ... I have concepts, you know.
20140210 01:56:06< vultraz_old> shrink the swamp
20140210 01:56:12< vultraz_old> Add a few chasms somewhere
20140210 01:56:16< shadowm> While I appreciate your input, it won't get me anywhere closer to doing this.
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20140210 01:58:24< shadowm> If you are trying to convince me to do this for UtBS, I personally believe that the lack of maps in UtBS makes it much more mysterious and enjoyable (plus given the desert elves' situation, they either don't have maps or spend most of the campaign in uncharted territory).
20140210 01:59:05< shadowm> Between IftU and AtS, only IftU would benefit from maps in my opinion, since AtS is more character-driven.
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20140210 02:23:54< shadowm> Hm, Li'sar in her first scenario proved a Swordsman to a water hex adjacent to my Rogue on grassland.
20140210 02:24:01< shadowm> *moved
20140210 02:24:07< shadowm> That's a terrible first move.
20140210 02:24:35< shadowm> Oh, and with a Horseman of my own stationed on a village next to both units.
20140210 02:27:26< mattsc> That's what you get for putting nobles in command, rather than the military.
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20140210 02:45:17< mattsc> shadowm: seriously though, anything you think could/should be done about that?
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20140210 03:33:51< shadowm> mattsc: Well, not really since I don't know what the AI's reasoning is.
20140210 03:34:32< shadowm> For example, I may do that if I have a good chance of being able to kill the target that way, but only if my unit isn't sure to get killed immediately afterwards...
20140210 03:38:32< mattsc> Well, the AI doesn't take enemy-turn counter attacks into account at all.
20140210 03:40:24< mattsc> It's essentially just a "from where can I do most damage while receiving the least damage" rating, with some sort of threshold for when it's not worth it any more - but that threshold is very low for the default parameters.
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20140210 03:48:06< shadowm> Hm, the sleeping gryphons "transforming" into awake ones by means of an advancement animation is rather odd.
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20140210 07:51:21< shadowm> elias: Have you had time to look into having wesnoth_addon_manager pass the entire .pbl contents to the server?
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20140210 08:46:43< shadowm> fendrin: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=566844#p566844  The menu entry (and presumably the hotkey too) seems to have disappeared between Wesnoth 1.10.0 and 1.11.0.
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20140210 08:58:11< shadowm> fendrin: Okay, although the menu entry disappeared with 1.11.0, F5 continued to work in the editor until 1.11.8.
20140210 09:06:41< Coffee_irc> fendrin: sorry to bug you again, but with the editor save box, what do you think of removing untitled and have default just .map?
20140210 09:07:26< Coffee_irc> this is so that pressing enter first up would go back to ".." as well and you can use the keyboard to navigate the save box
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20140210 09:10:52< Coffee_irc> also eliminates the need for any translatable strings to be made up for the editor dialog
20140210 09:23:28< shadowm> Ivanovic: I have granted everyone access to the wesnoth/website repository, which contains the release notes for stable .0 releases. I'll let you decide when to start coordinating efforts on that. (See the ML.)
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20140210 16:29:00< fendrin> Coffee_irc: hi
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20140210 19:47:51< Coffee_irc> fendrin: hi
20140210 19:50:32< fendrin> Coffee_irc: .map for pure maps and .cfg for the scenarios?
20140210 19:50:45< Coffee_irc> fendrin: can be
20140210 19:50:52< Coffee_irc> or .scenario for scenarios
20140210 19:50:56< Coffee_irc> whatever you'd like
20140210 19:51:22< fendrin> Coffee_irc: The problem I see is that when a user makes a mistake and there is a file called ".something" on his disk he might not be able to handle that. It is even hidden on unix systems.
20140210 19:51:35< Coffee_irc> ah, but he/she can't ;)
20140210 19:51:57< Coffee_irc> if you click okay without specifying a name, it goes back to the ".." folder ;)
20140210 19:52:07< Coffee_irc> same with enter on the keyboard
20140210 19:52:12< fendrin> okay
20140210 19:52:39< Coffee_irc> I'll push the change then
20140210 19:52:50< fendrin> Yeah, let's give it a try.
20140210 19:53:23< fendrin> .cfg is okay for now.
20140210 19:53:30< zookeeper> "if you click okay without specifying a name, it goes back to the ".." folder" <- i'm not sure i get it. how does that work?
20140210 19:53:48< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: navigation by keyboard to what folder
20140210 19:54:00< Coffee_irc> the folder list is active at the same time as the filename area
20140210 19:54:23< Coffee_irc> so you press down and scroll through the folder names, or just press enter to go to the ".." folder
20140210 19:54:55< Coffee_irc> this is the way it has always been before
20140210 19:56:03< zookeeper> ok, but how does that prevent the user from accidentally saving with nothing more than ".map" as the filename?
20140210 19:56:28< Coffee_irc> you can't
20140210 19:56:38< Coffee_irc> you press enter or okay and it thinks you are selecting a folder
20140210 19:57:10< Coffee_irc> only when you type something or highlight another file it saves over it
20140210 19:57:31< zookeeper> what if you type and then backspace it?
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20140210 19:57:32< irker740> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 1ac4aaa421af / changelog src/editor/map/context_manager.cpp src/menu_events.cpp: remove 'untitled' string from default filename in save dialog and change default http://git.io/s-DFGw
20140210 19:58:11< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: if you select another folder (with mouse or keyboard up/down) then it overwrites the text
20140210 19:58:33< Coffee_irc> otherwise the field is now smart enough to highlight by default the text before the ".extension" part
20140210 19:58:40< Coffee_irc> so you can't type over the extension
20140210 19:59:18< Coffee_irc> if you type and backspace, then it will save as before
20140210 19:59:27< Coffee_irc> I've not changed the behavior of that
20140210 19:59:43< Coffee_irc> just added default text
20140210 20:00:03< fendrin> wesbot: Seen Turuk?
20140210 20:00:03< wesbot> fendrin: The person with the nick Turuk 7d 18h ago they left the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev:
20140210 20:02:09< zookeeper> okay
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20140210 21:23:22< irker740> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master d68b7057d506 / RELEASE_NOTES: Clear RELEASE_NOTES http://git.io/QRKK4Q
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20140210 22:02:52< shadowm> The "Who goes there? Friend or foe?" event in HttT "The Lost General" is now triggered on turn 1 and the speaker is a troll.
20140210 22:03:24< zookeeper> i thought that was fixed already
20140210 22:03:26< shadowm> And then immediately afterwards I get the event for when undead are first sighted.
20140210 22:03:57< zookeeper> i mean the thing about sighted events triggering wrong in general, of which i heard reports at least months ago
20140210 22:04:25< shadowm> I remember the sighted events semantics changed in 1.11.x.
20140210 22:05:56< shadowm> So I wonder if anyone went over the mainline campaigns fixing those events accordingly.
20140210 22:06:42< zookeeper> Session Time: Thu Dec 26 00:00:01 2013
20140210 22:06:42< zookeeper> [00:02:51] <AI0867> zookeeper, mattsc: I suspects it's jamit's ac4606166d028eb7fa1af
20140210 22:06:42< zookeeper> [00:03:20] <AI0867> haven't tested anything, but the message says it's altered sighted behaviour
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20140210 22:08:18< zookeeper> that's what came of it when i last brought it up, i can only assume that nothing happened as a result
20140210 22:08:25< shadowm> !log ac4606166d028eb7fa1af
20140210 22:08:26< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision ac4606166d02 (JaMiT) on Sun Sep 29 01:25:02 2013:
20140210 22:08:26< shikadibot> shadowm: Add sighted events for ambushers discovered while moving.
20140210 22:08:26< shikadibot> shadowm:  
20140210 22:08:26< shikadibot> shadowm: I thought I had included this much earlier.
20140210 22:08:26< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/commit/ac4606166d02
20140210 22:08:57< shadowm> There aren't any ambushers in this scenario...
20140210 22:09:45< zookeeper> unless it's not really specific to ambushers, i wouldn't know
20140210 22:09:55< shadowm> In other news, is the "The Rise of Wesnoth" title on the map for TRoW scenario 1 intentionally off-center?
20140210 22:10:29< zookeeper> is it centered on an otherwise empty'ish region? if so, then yes :p
20140210 22:10:48< shadowm> It's not centered on the map, but yes, it's centered on a portion of it.
20140210 22:11:09< shadowm> (And yeah, I probably won't continue playing HttT until that events issue is fixed.)
20140210 22:11:37< shadowm> Haldric's sprites haven't aged well, huh.
20140210 22:11:38< zookeeper> i recall intentionally positioning it on the big patch of empty land
20140210 22:11:42< zookeeper> yeah
20140210 22:11:45< zookeeper> nor his animations :P
20140210 22:15:30< shadowm> Also, it seems like most (all?) HttT scenarios have a single music track in the playlist each. TRoW scenario 1 appears to have the same issue, so...
20140210 22:16:39< zookeeper> well at least first 5 scenarios of HttT have 2-3 tracks each
20140210 22:17:03< zookeeper> make that 8
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20140210 22:18:53< shadowm> Well, scenario 9's situation is annoying at least.
20140210 22:20:09< zookeeper> if you can think of fitting extra tracks for scenarios, then please feel free to add them
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20140210 22:32:57< fendrin> hmmm
20140210 22:33:01< fendrin> this is strange
20140210 22:33:50< fendrin> There is an undocumented font_rgb attribute in theme wml labels. It works but assigns some blue when feed with the rgb for some gray.
20140210 22:34:01< fendrin> It is from 2005.
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20140210 22:35:21< shadowm> It's always annoyed that in TRoW scenario 2 the village at 31,25 starts unowned after I go through the hassle of capturing it in the previous scenario.
20140210 22:35:25< shadowm> *annoyed me
20140210 22:39:25< fendrin> :-)
20140210 22:40:42< fendrin> shadowm: I bet I can fix that.
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20140210 22:43:24< fendrin> zookeeper: You mentioned a gimp plugin, used for what trackplacer gives me troubles with. Is it part of our codebase?
20140210 22:43:44< zookeeper> fendrin, nope
20140210 22:47:26< fendrin> Do you let other users use it?
20140210 22:48:51-!- mattsc [~mattsc@142.179.107.97] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140210 22:49:19< zookeeper> sure, they just need to ask
20140210 22:52:00< fendrin> ask!
20140210 22:52:41< fendrin> Is it not good enough to be in data/tools or utils?
20140210 22:53:07< zookeeper> yeah, it's not good enough
20140210 22:53:08< zookeeper> http://pastebin.com/d1YUMpQ1
20140210 22:54:07< zookeeper> create a vector layer called "journey", one path segment per journey (so vertices at each stop), split the segments off from each other, run the script -> it spits out textboxes from where you can copypaste the coordinate lists
20140210 22:54:50< zookeeper> the splitting is quickest to do with this: http://pastebin.com/6te3iFdP but then you still have to rename the resulting layer
20140210 22:55:04< mattsc> shadowm: the one sighted-event thing I was involved with was fixing hidden units under fog trigger filter_vision.  That does not seem to be the case here.
20140210 22:55:44< shadowm> mattsc: Well, but the behavior changed at some point -- there must be a reason I #ifver'd out part of a double sighted event sequence in AtS.
20140210 22:55:52< mattsc> The other thing that changed, IIRC, is that somehow now all sides might trigger the event (even AI and/or enemy) sides.  I assume that has to do with how SSFs work now.
20140210 22:56:08< zookeeper> fendrin, and note that the same coordinate will appear as the last one and the first one of adjacent segments
20140210 22:56:11< mattsc> I can look into that scenario, if you want me to
20140210 22:56:38< mattsc> I forgot the details, but I know zookeeper fixed something like that in ... SoF maybe?
20140210 22:56:44< zookeeper> TSG
20140210 22:56:53< zookeeper> troll sighting in the underground scenario
20140210 22:57:12< mattsc> right
20140210 22:57:19< zookeeper> i'd expect _most_ mainline sighted events to be broken as a result of this
20140210 23:00:06< mattsc> Now, on a topic of my own, I looked into those strange spelling exceptions wmllint is raising for me on very common words and it's bizarre.
20140210 23:00:08< mattsc> Bypasing anything Wesnoth entirely and just running aspell on the CL: if I do an 'aspell dump' to a file and then 'aspell check' on that same file, it does not recognize quite a few of those words out of its own DB (incl. those for which I have problems with wmllint).
20140210 23:01:25< mattsc> I've reinstalled things several times, no idea what's going on.  At this point, I am going to wait if there'll maybe be an aspell bug fix sometime soon (for lack of a better idea of what to do).
20140210 23:01:57-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140210 23:02:06< shadowm> The -S switch to wmllint disables spellchecking.
20140210 23:03:55< mattsc> Thanks, I didn't know that.  I can also just ignore it.  I'd prefer it to actually work (it did previously, then I upgraded my OS :P ), I just don't know what else to try any more.
20140210 23:04:59< mattsc> shadowm: would you like me to look into HttT "The Lost General" or do you want to do it yourself?
20140210 23:05:10< mattsc> Or maybe zookeeper really wants to do it?
20140210 23:05:38< shadowm> I don't really feel like doing much with campaigns after this past year...
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20140210 23:13:29< Jozrael> [15:06:14] <Jozrael> Hey all. Wiki question: is {{TOC limit}} not implemented? How might I go about fixing that? I might be making a false assumption here. I went to editing help -> Formatting -> Headings, which links to the Table of Contents section in Wikipedia's wiki editor help, which has a {{TOC limit}} function. I'm cleaning up the 'How to Play' series on the wiki, which has a 
20140210 23:13:29< Jozrael> dreadfully long ToC, but could still benefit from a 1 level deep ToC. Also by the by ended up making http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Template:TOC_limit which is blank for now - I'd imagine that's where it'd be implemented if it were, in fact.
20140210 23:15:13< ChrisOelmueller> you should be able to just copy wikipedia's? it's one line in my admittedly not very recent version
20140210 23:15:36< mattsc> shadowm: yes, it looks like that's the same bug (due to change of behavior).  I'll fix it, unless you want to, zookeeper.
20140210 23:17:32< Jozrael> ChrisOelmueller: well, I added {{TOC limit|1}} to the page, and it did not take effect. Sorry, that's probably pretty relevant information <_<;
20140210 23:17:40< Jozrael> (Also tried 0 and 2 just for kicks, no luck)
20140210 23:18:14< ChrisOelmueller> yeah i meant copying the template source of it on wp to the wesnoth wiki page
20140210 23:18:24< shadowm> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Table_of_contents#Depth <-- I suspect our style just doesn't have the required rules.
20140210 23:19:17< zookeeper> mattsc, so all mainline sighted events need to be checked and possibly fixed?
20140210 23:19:45< mattsc> zookeeper: it looks like it.  Are you volunteering for the job?  ;)
20140210 23:21:01< zookeeper> i'd prefer not to... but is it certain that it's necessary? i mean, what's the underlying reason for the change in behavior? i've thought that the reason sighted events didn't trigger for AI sides in campaigns was that those sides didn't have fog/shroud so no units could have gotten sighted.
20140210 23:22:07< mattsc> I do not know.  It might be that SSFs now default to all sides rather than side 1, but I have no evidence for this at all, just guessing.
20140210 23:22:13< zookeeper> i'd like to be sure that 1) it's not actually an engine bug and 2) there's no easy workaround to prevent it from breaking all sighted events
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20140210 23:23:46< zookeeper> err, clarification: i'd like to be sure that 1) it's not actually an engine bug and 2) that if it's an intentional change in behavior, there's no easy workaround that could be added to prevent it from breaking existing sighted events
20140210 23:23:51< mattsc> zookeeper: sure, that would be nice.  But I don't have time for looking into this right now.  I'd really like to get at least a first run over all SotBE scenarios done by Feb 22 (which likely isn't going to happen, but I can dream, at least)
20140210 23:24:30< mattsc> I presume that adding [filter_second] to each event is not what you mean by easy workaround?
20140210 23:24:59< Jozrael> g
20140210 23:25:02< Jozrael> Whoops
20140210 23:26:45< shadowm> Jozrael: What page did you need this for?
20140210 23:26:57< mattsc> I confirmed that doing that fixes the problem in HttT that shadowm found.  Should I commit that or not?
20140210 23:27:19< shadowm> mattsc: Did you make sure the events still trigger when they actually should, later on?
20140210 23:27:27< mattsc> yes, I did.
20140210 23:27:59< mattsc> I gave Kalenz 999 MP and had him wander around  :)
20140210 23:28:32< zookeeper> mattsc, no, i meant an engine-side workaround
20140210 23:28:50< zookeeper> but sure, i have nothing against WML-side fixes
20140210 23:28:54< mattsc> zookeeper: that's what I thought
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20140210 23:34:16< irker740> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 9b8d8711b284 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/15_The_Lost_General.cfg: HttT S15: prevent non-player sides from triggering sighted events http://git.io/JSFBXg
20140210 23:34:40< mattsc> shadowm, zookeeper: ^  It should work as intended now.
20140210 23:34:54< zookeeper> cool
20140210 23:35:18< mattsc> Same fix as what you did in TSG 07a  :)
20140210 23:35:25< aquileia> is it a known bug/inconvenience that the messages that accelerated mode was activated and how to deactivate it overlay each other?
20140210 23:36:04< aquileia> The easiest fix would be to delete the second
20140210 23:36:55< aquileia> Maybe they can be merged? That would be preferable.
20140210 23:42:12 * zookeeper doesn't know what messages those are
20140210 23:43:01< shadowm> Try pressing ctrl+a to enable/disable accelerated animations while in-game.
20140210 23:43:01< irker740> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 950f1f31eff8 / changelog: Update changelog http://git.io/IfuelA
20140210 23:43:23< mattsc> Rats, I always forget that. ^  :P
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20140210 23:47:36< zookeeper> ohh, fancy.
20140210 23:48:01< zookeeper> and yeah, at least in 1.11.8 the text overlap is obviously messed up
20140210 23:51:17< shadowm> aquileia: Could you file a bug report about it?
20140210 23:52:10< aquileia> Isn't there a 1 minute solution to this?
20140210 23:53:05< shadowm> No idea whether there is that, or any of the present has time to look into it right now.
20140210 23:57:07< aquileia> 	gui_->announce(_("Accelerated speed enabled!"), font::NORMAL_COLOR); gui_->announce("\n" + vgettext("(press $hk to disable)", symbols), font::NORMAL_COLOR);
20140210 23:57:45< aquileia> is \n valid in announce? Maybe this is the problem
20140210 23:58:50< mattsc> zookeeper: from the wiki, how do you interpret this:  "For movement, a sighted event is fired for each side that could see the unit after movement, but not before."
20140210 23:59:29< mattsc> I'd take that as the current behavior being unintended.
--- Log closed Tue Feb 11 00:00:17 2014