--- Log opened Fri Feb 14 00:00:27 2014
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20140214 01:28:17< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master cdaf2b14aa85 / data/ (gui/default.cfg hardwired/tips.cfg tips.cfg): Move data/hardwired/tips.cfg to data/tips.cfg http://git.io/TPnhEw
20140214 01:32:07< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 3486ad75d5b4 / data/scenario-test.cfg: Strip optional whitespace in the test scenario's terrain map http://git.io/8ku8eA
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20140214 01:59:52< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master a21d13f1f4bb / data/core/ (terrain-graphics.cfg terrain-graphics/trash.cfg): Refactored trash terrain gfx macros into a separate file, removed TRI prefix http://git.io/yJ59rg
20140214 01:59:55< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 30200a012c69 / data/core/terrain-graphics.cfg: Move rules for trash terrains up to where they belong in terrain-graphics.cfg http://git.io/zGKZ1Q
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20140214 02:25:27< SigurdFD> Hello, I'm working on https://gna.org/bugs/?21577 I think it should be a simple one, so I could learn to make a pull request from it.
20140214 02:25:52< SigurdFD> however, I have no idea where to find the code in question or how to look for it.
20140214 02:30:03< shadowm> SigurdFD: Doing a plain-text search for "XP to advance" reveals two key locations in src/unit.cpp (2528 and 2680).
20140214 02:32:57< SigurdFD> ok, thanks
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20140214 02:59:47< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master c3895f0a1af3 / changelog players_changelog: Update changelog for the WML error report improvements http://git.io/KqnuBw
20140214 02:59:50< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master e829d3246486 / RELEASE_NOTES: Update RELEASE_NOTES http://git.io/7_ilXA
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20140214 03:52:30< SigurdFD> hmmm... not as simple as I though. I'll update #21577 with what I found and hopefully work on it on Saturday.
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20140214 04:59:12< shadowm> Does anyone here have an official release Windows build (1.11.9, 1.11.8, etc.) of Wesnoth to test?
20140214 04:59:34< shadowm> ... to test something for me, that is.
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20140214 05:29:56< shadowm> loonycyborg, mattsc, vultraz, mordante (yes): I have finally filed those bugs about text rendering on Windows: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21648 https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21649
20140214 05:30:49< shadowm> I would like to try newer Pango and Cairo versions on Windows, but from what I'm reading compiling those is decidedly non-trivial.
20140214 05:31:17< shadowm> And gtk.org only has older versions.
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20140214 06:36:10< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 1916898d0136 / src/SConscript: scons: hotkey/hotkey_preferences_display.cpp is not special http://git.io/NCS18A
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20140214 06:39:33< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 5fdadffaa4cc / src/SConscript: Move hotkey/hotkey_preferences_display.cpp from libwesnoth.a to main sources http://git.io/wKwwwA
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20140214 07:25:45< shadowm> vultraz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-theme-descriptions.png
20140214 07:25:48< shadowm> Er.
20140214 07:25:49< shadowm> No, wrong person.
20140214 07:25:53< shadowm> fendrin: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-theme-descriptions.png
20140214 07:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 222 bugs, 347 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140214 07:35:36< zookeeper> shadowm, i do
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20140214 07:40:44< shadowm> Oh yeah, that's no longer needed, unless you really want to confirm those two bug reports I liked afterwards.
20140214 07:43:40< zookeeper> i don't think i really want to do something unnecessary :>
20140214 07:45:27< shadowm> fendrin, mordante: The background for GUI2 listboxes looks too different from GUI1 listboxes in 1.11.x compared to 1.10.x, because of the overall color scheme changes and the fact that GUI1 listboxes use a transparent overlay instead of a solid color like GUI2 listboxes do.
20140214 07:45:56< shadowm> fendrin, mordante: Thus I'd propose this patch to have them match: http://pastebin.com/DNUPEZdb
20140214 07:46:56< shadowm> (The color values are from the menu::bluebg_style definition in src/widgets/menu_style.cpp line 29; alpha 0.35*255 is 89.25, so rounded it down to 89.)
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20140214 07:50:27< zookeeper> shadowm, anyway, sure, i can confirm that text rendering has looked a bit shoddy for... forever, really
20140214 07:50:50< zookeeper> never thought that it wasn't shoddy everywhere, though, but probably just because i didn't notice
20140214 07:51:57< shadowm> fendrin, mordante: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-listbox-color-comp-before.png   https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-listbox-color-comp-after.png
20140214 07:52:42< shadowm> I reckon the difference between them might not be too noticeable depending on your monitor, though.
20140214 07:55:45< vultraz> Prefer latter
20140214 07:56:23< shadowm> It's not a matter of choice here unless you intend to throw away LordBob's work, but rather a question of consistency.
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20140214 07:57:42< shadowm> There are some aspects where GUI2 visually differs from GUI1 on purpose I believe, such as the input box borders and the lack of the x+1,y+1 text shift when pressing buttons.
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20140214 07:57:50< zookeeper> shadowm, and i can confirm the linebreaks issue as well
20140214 07:58:22< shadowm> zookeeper: Okay, thanks.
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20140214 09:13:24< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 29f08abd6f34 / data/gui/default/window/addon_description.cfg: gui2/taddon_description: Let the description area grow horizontally http://git.io/T-I8bQ
20140214 09:13:27< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master b11bd24711f9 / data/gui/default/window/chat_log.cfg: gui2/tchat_log: Use 'description' scroll_label type for the log http://git.io/skq9Mw
20140214 09:13:30< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 1cdc5df63d67 / data/gui/default/window/chat_log.cfg: gui2/tchat_log: Let the log scroll_label grow horizontally http://git.io/fYZ9gw
20140214 09:13:33< irker819> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master b0950f006ceb / data/gui/default/window/chat_log.cfg: gui2/tchat_log: Hack to set a minimum cell size to 200x250 http://git.io/jNYsLw
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20140214 14:15:37< bumbadadabum> Hey I'm almost done with the EI maps (finally)
20140214 14:15:48< bumbadadabum> and I was wondering if there's something else I could do
20140214 14:16:02< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: Is there any animationWML needed for something?
20140214 14:27:09< vultraz> Have you made sure all unit types have the new syntax?
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20140214 14:44:12< bumbadadabum> vultraz: y
20140214 14:45:11-!- mattsc [~mattsc@154.20.32.246] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140214 14:58:25< vultraz> !seen LordBob
20140214 14:58:58< vultraz> wesbot: seen LordBob
20140214 14:58:58< wesbot> vultraz: Sorry, I don't know of LordBob.
20140214 14:59:03< vultraz> wesbot: seen LordBob_
20140214 14:59:03< wesbot> vultraz: The person with the nick LordBob_ last spoke 10d 6h ago.  5d 22h ago they left with the message: Quit: LordBob_
20140214 15:07:22< mattsc> shadowm: I've tried to update pango/cairo on OS X several times and never succeeded.  The last time I actually got it to compile all the way through, but then Wesnoth just hung.
20140214 15:08:03< mattsc> The whole "Wesnoth compile stuff for OS X" package probably should be updated, but I am not the right person to do that ...
20140214 15:10:20< vultraz> mattsc: IIRC crimson_penguin was the compiler of the maccompilestuff zip
20140214 15:12:27< vultraz> and also IIRC he said it was hell :P
20140214 15:15:17< mattsc> I can believe that.  Alarantalara made a similar comment.
20140214 15:15:39< vultraz> However I choose to believe it's easier than windows...
20140214 15:15:48< vultraz> [16:51:42]	shadowm	http://cairographics.org/end_to_end_build_for_win32/
20140214 15:35:27< happygrue> compiling on windows has been a breeze for me with CodeBlocks
20140214 15:36:24< happygrue> About half an hour to setup and half an hour to compile, and I had expected a multi day process
20140214 15:36:58< vultraz> Compling wesnoth is easy. It's rebuilding the bundled libs we're talking about
20140214 15:37:03< happygrue> I see
20140214 15:37:05< vultraz> Cairo, Pango, SDL, etc
20140214 15:37:06< mattsc> happygrue: we're talking about the process of setting things up so that compiling then is a breeze for everybody else  :)
20140214 15:37:13< happygrue> ah
20140214 15:37:23< vultraz> That is most decidedly NOT a breeze :P
20140214 15:37:24< happygrue> I should know better to read the last line and walk into a conversation
20140214 15:37:47< mattsc> but it's more fun not to do so  ;)
20140214 15:37:57< happygrue> it sure is!
20140214 15:38:14< happygrue> in related news, I enjoy leaving halfway through someone talking to me also.
20140214 15:39:11< happygrue> I'm a stay at home Dad so I lurk all day and I'm often vaguely around, but I am almost never able to be actually focused during the day.  ;)
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20140214 15:39:35< mattsc> :)
20140214 15:39:58< mattsc> I seem to have a knack for killing conversations by throwing in random non-sequitors
20140214 15:40:12< happygrue> hehe
20140214 15:40:30< mattsc> I leave it up to others to decide whether I do that intentionally or not
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20140214 15:41:55< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: I think we are all good with animationWML (except for one bug that I'd like to fix before release) and wmllint changes
20140214 15:43:13< happygrue> Hey shadowm, my boys have been having a blast playing modded Commander Keen games from http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Galaxy_Mods, and I noticed you have been involved in that, did you actually make any?
20140214 15:43:24< happygrue> how's that for a non-sequitor?  ;)
20140214 15:53:41< fendrin> shadowm: Cool, looks nicely.
20140214 15:54:10< vultraz> fendrin: re our conversation yesterday, what should be done about the save state?
20140214 15:54:51< fendrin> vultraz: Maybe a directory in .userdir/editor/schedules?
20140214 15:55:13< fendrin> To save the schedules in there and this is going to be loaded by the editor at startup. 
20140214 15:56:26< vultraz> hm, sounds good
20140214 15:56:37< vultraz> and then users can copy that file to their addon
20140214 15:59:30< vultraz> But does it make a new file every time?
20140214 16:00:03< vultraz> Or would you make it to save to an existing file if loading a UMC schedule, and create a new file if editing a derivative of a core one?
20140214 16:02:43< fendrin> I guess it is better to have each schedule its own file, just for the use case you mentioned. 
20140214 16:03:54< fendrin> We would need one master file containing [editor_schedule] {include to the file} [editor_schedule]... otherwise the UMC Designer needs to strip of the [editor_schedule] tag.
20140214 16:04:32< vultraz> Should we be able to choose save location of the file?
20140214 16:04:41< fendrin> vultraz: Do you want to take care about it? The whole issue is another "easy coding" task, more or less. 
20140214 16:04:53< fendrin> Good question.
20140214 16:05:14-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
20140214 16:05:24< fendrin> Maybe we need a load from file then as well.
20140214 16:05:46< vultraz> fendrin: my laptop's HDD died two weeks ago and the replacement won't be around for another week. if I can still work on this after 1.11.10, I can
20140214 16:06:26< vultraz> fendrin: what about having the Open dialog add a schedule to the list if you open a schedule file?
20140214 16:07:12< vultraz> However...that raises the question if we should be able to save in the tod dialog at all.
20140214 16:07:31< vultraz> Perhaps have schedule saving a toplevel editor function like Save Map and Save Scenario?
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20140214 16:12:19< fendrin> vultraz: It is not so easy to design the functionality. Your questions raise more and more questions in my head...
20140214 16:12:35< vultraz> Yeah, same here
20140214 16:12:42< vultraz> I thought it seemed simple, now...ugh
20140214 16:13:18< fendrin> It is simple to store the wml in a file. And everything related is either already implemented or easily to do.
20140214 16:13:43< vultraz> But how best to present it
20140214 16:13:45< fendrin> But the best way to get that evil "user" thing into the mechanism is still in shroud.
20140214 16:14:19< fendrin> Let's try to guess what these evil entities expect.
20140214 16:14:50< vultraz> I would expect all core schedules to be loaded by default and appear as options in the schedules menu.
20140214 16:14:52< fendrin> I guess their alignment is chaotic in almost every case.
20140214 16:15:31< fendrin> Yeah, that is already the case. And those from addons should appear their as well.
20140214 16:15:40< fendrin> Or better, they already do.
20140214 16:15:45< vultraz> Ok
20140214 16:15:59< vultraz> Let's *not* load those in userdir/editor/schedules
20140214 16:16:17< vultraz> Keep those like usermaps for consistency
20140214 16:17:18< vultraz> So now let's figure out where to do the saving
20140214 16:17:31< vultraz> I'd like to keep it with the other two save functions for consistency
20140214 16:18:01< fendrin> hmmmm
20140214 16:18:32< vultraz> So say a user does that, selects a save location, etc. Should it only save changes to the currently selected schedule?
20140214 16:18:38< vultraz> Or should it save changes to all schedules?
20140214 16:19:30< fendrin> Do we do the user a favor by not loading his custom schedules per default? 
20140214 16:20:28< fendrin> He produced it, most likely to use it for the next 26 scenarios, or 256 in case of dugi.
20140214 16:21:28< fendrin> So every session for a new map begins with loading the schedule (or more of them, maybe many more) manually.
20140214 16:22:09< fendrin> While those schedules he got from add-ons are magically just there, laughing at him. 
20140214 16:22:16< vultraz> I assume any schedules a user would be interested in would be in his addon
20140214 16:22:35< vultraz> The ones in userdir/editor/schedules would probably be drafts
20140214 16:22:45< vultraz> also note that schedule editing is not something done all that often
20140214 16:23:07< fendrin> If the player uses just the editor to produce his scenarios he does not need to even copy the schedule into his addon.
20140214 16:24:02< fendrin> And we will have a lot editor users working that way, not having the slightest clue about wml, files, campaign or scenario structures and anything else.
20140214 16:25:25< vultraz> hm
20140214 16:25:30< fendrin> From your point of flow, the workflow is: Produce the schedule, put it into the campaign manually, then do scenarios.
20140214 16:25:32< vultraz> Alright, we could load the userdata ones
20140214 16:28:03< fendrin> And processing any kind of files, not only the one we wrote ourselves is a tricky thing.
20140214 16:28:40< fendrin> Macros usage usually spoils the day.
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20140214 16:30:10< fendrin> I think a very good approach would be to write the editor help section about the tod schedule dialog (or everything tod related) first.
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20140214 16:30:26< irker964> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master a83051691096 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/maps/14_Back_Home.map: SotBE S14: map changes for rebalancing http://git.io/bQICVA
20140214 16:30:26< irker964> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 69b3fe4728e8 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/14_Back_Home.cfg: SotBE S14: balancing adjustments to turns, gold, income http://git.io/iezCqQ
20140214 16:31:16< vultraz> I'm already sick and this thinking is not helping 
20140214 16:31:26< vultraz> We still need to decide an interface for savingg
20140214 16:31:31< vultraz> Which schedules should be saved
20140214 16:32:08< vultraz> My personal preference would be saving the selected one in the same place as the other two save buttons
20140214 16:32:13< vultraz> (not in the dialog)
20140214 16:32:24< vultraz> I guess that would mean expanding the Quit warning
20140214 16:32:33< vultraz> But I assume you already did that for scenario?
20140214 16:32:55< vultraz> we'd now have three cases to warn a user about: unsaved map, unsaved scenario, unsaved schedules
20140214 16:36:04< zookeeper> mattsc, surprise: i got the training ogres scenario done. want me to commit it right away so you can take a look at adding the AI when you got time?
20140214 16:36:51< mattsc> zookeeper: great!  Yeah, go ahead.
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20140214 16:37:18< mattsc> Is there anything specific you would like the ogres to do?  Other than flee as efficiently as possible?
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20140214 16:38:25< zookeeper> hrhm, i think i'll have to rename the scenario into "Catching the Ogres" for instance, since "training" is a rather weird way to put it
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20140214 16:40:20< zookeeper> mattsc, there's one little addition that i think is needed to prevent the scenario from being abusable:
20140214 16:40:47< mattsc> makes sense
20140214 16:41:16< zookeeper> if an ogre is not ZoC-captured but nevertheless has no direct route to the map edge (so for example the player has 5 units encircling it, but none adjacent to it), then the ogre should just attack indiscriminately
20140214 16:42:40< mattsc> zookeeper: okay
20140214 16:42:42< zookeeper> so basically, it should go into attack mode if there exists no ZoC-free route to the map edge
20140214 16:43:20< mattsc> Meaning if there is no route that doesn't require a stop next to an enemy unit?
20140214 16:43:28< zookeeper> maybe there's alternatives to that? my intent is simply to prevent the player from loosely encircling one ogre like that, getting positive income by grabbing the villages and then sitting it out indefinitely
20140214 16:43:35< zookeeper> yes
20140214 16:44:17< mattsc> What would happen in that case (I think, I'd need to confirm that) is that the ogre takes that route, ends up next to the enemy, and will attack from that hex.
20140214 16:44:29< mattsc> I'm not disabling attacks, I just do the move first.
20140214 16:44:38< zookeeper> oh, right, yeah. that'll do the trick then.
20140214 16:45:13< mattsc> Well, we probably have to set aggression=1 also, but that is likely all that is needed.
20140214 16:47:03< zookeeper> ok, i'll finish the renaming and commit then
20140214 16:47:41< mattsc> great
20140214 16:50:09< mattsc> I guess I better refamiliarize myself with that AI then ...
20140214 16:53:23< zookeeper> "failed to sync this branch" sigh
20140214 16:53:27 * zookeeper kicks github
20140214 16:53:46 * mattsc sends zookeeper a virtual hammer
20140214 16:55:55 * vultraz sends zookeeper Mjolnir
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20140214 17:04:37< irker964> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth-old:master 31ccbaf6e259 / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Rewrote 'Training the Ogres' http://git.io/cMS6zw
20140214 17:04:40< zookeeper> there. i'll rename the files separately because that's probably why github was throwing a fit.
20140214 17:06:18< zookeeper> mattsc, so i presume the ogres will take the player's movement range into consideration when deciding where to run?
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20140214 17:08:51< mattsc> zookeeper: yes.  The current rating is a combination of 1. minimize distance from map edges, 2. prefer hexes that fewest enemies can get to and 3. maximize distance from other ogres.
20140214 17:09:36< mattsc> How exactly those are weighted with respect from each other and if something else needs to be added to that needs to be figured out by play testing.
20140214 17:09:45< zookeeper> ok, great
20140214 17:10:36< mattsc> So I am going to throw out that [ai] tag you put in and replace it by the new AI and then see what happens.
20140214 17:10:46< zookeeper> that's the plan
20140214 17:10:53< mattsc> cool
20140214 17:12:26< crimson_penguin> hmm, perhaps I could try updating that stuff
20140214 17:13:05< mattsc> crimson_penguin: that would be great!  Would that also involve moving up to 64bit?
20140214 17:13:45< crimson_penguin> yes, probably, if we update SDL as well (not to SDL2, just the latest before that)
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20140214 17:15:12< mattsc> crimson_penguin: cool.  One thing to mention, maybe (I have no idea if it matters for this, so I'm just saying it), is that we have quite a few players who still have OS X 10.5.
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20140214 17:16:08< crimson_penguin> should be... fine? maybe can't use clang for them, but I can't remember
20140214 17:17:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140214 17:17:38 * vultraz wonders what possible reason people could have for still using 10.5
20140214 17:17:39< mattsc> crimson_penguin: in the current setup I just need to build the package using the 10.4 SDKs and it works.
20140214 17:18:06< crimson_penguin> vultraz: a friend of mine just updated her OS, and I think she was on 10.5
20140214 17:18:10< mattsc> vultraz: we had that discussion before and people told you.  You must really be sick.  :)  Check out the logs.
20140214 17:18:23< vultraz> Oh right
20140214 17:18:24< vultraz> Sorry!
20140214 17:18:31< mattsc> No worries...
20140214 17:18:36< crimson_penguin> mattsc: why not build with 10.5 SDK?
20140214 17:19:12< mattsc> crimson_penguin: I don't know.  Because Xcode was set up to use the 10.4 SDK and I didn't change that.
20140214 17:19:27< crimson_penguin> oh okay, makes sense
20140214 17:20:04< mattsc> I really only took this over recently because Alarantalara is not available at the moment (and I really don't know what I am doing very well)
20140214 17:20:38< crimson_penguin> I hope I'm not giving you too much hope, because I am pretty busy and I'm not sure if I will actually get to this soon
20140214 17:20:45< crimson_penguin> but if you bug me about it now and then you might get lucky :P
20140214 17:20:46< mattsc> zookeeper: looking over the changes you made.  The message by Gweddry when 3 ogres are captured looks wrong.
20140214 17:21:36< zookeeper> oops, so it does
20140214 17:22:36< zookeeper> all the messages are sorta quickly cobbled together, i hope to improve on them a bit anyway :p
20140214 17:23:10< mattsc> crimson_penguin: no worries.  I don't think there's any need to get this done quickly.
20140214 17:23:56< mattsc> zookeeper: sure, no problem.  What I am trying to figure out is actually what the benefit of capturing more ogres is in the next scenario, this one just caught my eye as I came across it.
20140214 17:24:29< mattsc> Will the player still be able to recruit ogres from the next scenario on?
20140214 17:24:40< zookeeper> no, they just get the ones they capture
20140214 17:24:47< zookeeper> and honestly, i dunno if they're really very useful at all :>
20140214 17:25:05< mattsc> oh, okay, that makes sense then.  I thought you were able to recruit them after this.
20140214 17:25:28< mattsc> They might not be all that useful, but it makes for a fun different kind of scenario  :)
20140214 17:26:57< zookeeper> oh, crud... if you go the other route and bypass this scenario, you get one loyal ogre, two free ones and get to recruit young ogres
20140214 17:27:29< zookeeper> why didn't i remember that before
20140214 17:27:42< mattsc> okay, so I did remember some of that correctly.
20140214 17:28:08< mattsc> Why not just take the recruit young ones away on that route also?
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20140214 17:30:07< mattsc> Or make all those you capture here loyal
20140214 17:30:54< happygrue> Soliton: do you have any interest in helping mentor for the collection/display idea?
20140214 17:30:58< zookeeper> so it goes like this: the other one of the possible previous scenarios has an ogre leader. if he survives, he joins you and you get what i just said. if he dies, you go to the capturing scenario. the other branch always goes through the capturing.
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20140214 17:31:59< Soliton> happygrue: yes, i'd be happy to help.
20140214 17:32:10< happygrue> great
20140214 17:32:20< happygrue> I just mailed the list about it
20140214 17:32:36< mattsc> zookeeper: the ones you capture here are adult ogres, right?
20140214 17:32:38< happygrue> I've started on the wiki and I'll put you and I as initial people to bug
20140214 17:33:04< zookeeper> mattsc, mix of adult and young ogres, atm
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20140214 17:33:33< zookeeper> but could be adult only of course, and it'd even it out a bit
20140214 17:33:38< mattsc> Well, having young ogres without XP on your recall list is kind of pointless
20140214 17:33:48< zookeeper> indeed
20140214 17:34:12< mattsc> So how about making them all adult, and making the first one you capture loyal?
20140214 17:34:30< mattsc> In that case, if you capture 3, it is exactly the same as the other branch
20140214 17:35:04< mattsc> If you capture 2 or 4, well, balancing shouldn't be that fine tuned that it makes a lot of difference, should it?
20140214 17:35:29< mattsc> s/fine/finely
20140214 17:36:06< zookeeper> yep
20140214 17:36:57< mattsc> And if you capture none, you still get to go on, but without any ogres (including no recruiting of young ogres)?
20140214 17:38:10< zookeeper> yes
20140214 17:39:00< zookeeper> or i could just remove all trace of ogres in the whole campaign and call it a day :p
20140214 17:39:17< mattsc> your decision  :)
20140214 17:39:37< mattsc> But I still want to test out my AI  ;)
20140214 17:39:45< mattsc> Now, why don't I have a start-of-scenario save?
20140214 17:42:08< mattsc> Strange, I must have tested this when I wrote the AI - oh, maybe that was with my test scenario ...
20140214 17:42:21< mattsc> Well, anyway, I do have one in my backup of old savegames.
20140214 17:44:20< mattsc> zookeeper: macro TO_CAPTURING_THE_OGRES is missing
20140214 17:45:18< mattsc> oh, I see ...  I can fix that in my local version
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20140214 17:49:02< mattsc> zookeeper: I am coming into the scenario with 57 gold carried over (this is from my last play-through).  Does that sound about right to you?
20140214 17:56:16< mattsc> zookeeper: well, the AI is certainly efficient.  With 4 horsies, I managed to capture two ogres and on turn 6 the rest of them were all gone.
20140214 18:00:43< irker964> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth-old:master d4d99609969f / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/scenarios/08_Training_the_Ogres.cfg: Fixed some screwups http://git.io/6qDaxA
20140214 18:00:54< zookeeper> mattsc, not sure. it's not much in any case.
20140214 18:01:45< mattsc> zookeeper: do you want me to commit the AI so that you can have a test run with it?
20140214 18:01:54< mattsc> Or just send you the files?
20140214 18:06:04< zookeeper> i guess just commit, it's gonna be better than what's in there now anyway
20140214 18:06:48< mattsc> Okay, give me a moment.
20140214 18:07:11< mattsc> It's not particularly interesting at the moment, but I think the idea is good and the scenario and map just need some tweaking.
20140214 18:07:32< zookeeper> no hurry, i don't have time to check it out for a while in any case
20140214 18:07:47< mattsc> oh, I also need to merge your latest commit first
20140214 18:12:53< irker964> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 4980d5f1cace / data/campaigns/Eastern_Invasion/ (ai/ca_ogres_flee.lua scenarios/08_Training_the_Ogres.cfg): EI S8 (Training the Ogres): add custom AI for the ogres http://git.io/VIs2kA
20140214 18:13:24< mattsc> zookeeper: there it is.  No rush, I need to move on to other things anyway.
20140214 18:21:03< EliDupree> grrr, got another segfault in the image-mods code, hunting...
20140214 18:23:22< happygrue> Soliton: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeIdeas (last one), if you have any thoughts.  It is mostly what I said in the ML with some feedback from Mordante
20140214 18:23:43< happygrue> or feedback from anyone else welcome, as I have no experience with this.
20140214 18:25:53< happygrue> also:  I probably can't be "the mentor", as I assume that requires assessing the student's code in some way?  I wouldn't be able to do that in any meaningful way, though I am keenly interested and would love to help as much as I could.  I'm not sure quite where that leaves us. 
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20140214 18:52:30< EliDupree> @#$!ing segfault was reproducible until I wrote some debug messages to track it, now it's gone.
20140214 18:53:52< EliDupree> Segfaults lurk in the dark corners and jump out when they sence weakness, but slip away when faced with a show of force.
20140214 18:55:48< mattsc> EliDupree: it's quantum mechanics
20140214 18:57:23< EliDupree> *sense
20140214 18:58:03< happygrue> It is dark.  You are likely to be segfaulted by a grue.
20140214 18:58:19< EliDupree> got it to reproduce again with the new debug stuff, yay
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20140214 19:00:41< EliDupree> hmm... is ~O(>100%) supported?
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20140214 19:10:37< _8680_> Coffee_irc, EliDupree: I’ve finished (a few days ago), provisionally, my attempt at documenting the AnimationWML–progressive-string–square-bracket–expansion syntax: <http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:8680/tmp/AnimationWMLProgressiveStringSquareBracketExpansionSyntax>. Am I correct in my description of it?
20140214 19:12:26< EliDupree> Looks correct except for one thing
20140214 19:13:24< EliDupree> your description as written would mean that "9..010" would expand to 009,010 but I believe it expands to 9,10
20140214 19:13:33< EliDupree> of course Coffee_irc is the one who knows the actual code
20140214 19:14:02< _8680_> I believe Coffee said that the “most” leading zeros would be used, hence my assumption there.
20140214 19:14:08< EliDupree> hmmmm
20140214 19:14:09< _8680_> I’ll check my logs.
20140214 19:14:16< EliDupree> yeah maybe I misread
20140214 19:14:55< EliDupree> It's different from my lua though
20140214 19:15:17< EliDupree> I just used "pad the number so it's not shorter than the shortest endpoint"
20140214 19:15:28< Ivanovic> Soliton: have you seen happygrues last mail?
20140214 19:15:35< Ivanovic> Soliton: maybe you want to mentor yourself?
20140214 19:15:40< EliDupree> Not that it would be responsible to rely on either behavior, lol
20140214 19:15:41< Ivanovic> would be really cool if you did!
20140214 19:16:35< _8680_> 2014-02-08  03:14:39 <_8680_> “img[1~01]” would become “img01”?
20140214 19:16:35< _8680_> 2014-02-08  03:14:46 <Coffee_irc> yeah
20140214 19:16:35< _8680_> 2014-02-08  03:14:55 <Coffee_irc> it picks the greates amount of leading zeros
20140214 19:17:11< _8680_> Hm, that might be only if the endpoints are numerically equal, though.
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20140214 19:17:46< happygrue> Ivanovic: I added at least a draft under the GSoC ideas section, but maybe it needs to be improved upon
20140214 19:21:02< EliDupree> _8680_: looks like your description is correct then! :)
20140214 19:21:37< _8680_> Maybe. Now I’m not sure what Coffee was referring to there.
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20140214 19:22:22< EliDupree> I could examine the code, but I'm busy hunting a graphics segfault lol
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20140214 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 222 bugs, 349 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140214 19:30:00< EliDupree> valgrinded, "Use of uninitialised value of size 8" and then "Invalid read of size 4" in cut_surface
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20140214 19:30:29< EliDupree> dang, I forget who's supposed to know the image mods code
20140214 19:30:56< EliDupree> shadowm deja vu :p
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20140214 19:33:08< _8680_> This uses both atoi and lexical_cast… why…
20140214 19:33:52< _8680_> It appears that if the first endpoint has leading zeros, those will be used, and if it doesn’t, then any leading zeros on the second endpoint will be used.
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20140214 19:36:35< EliDupree> Well well
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20140214 19:43:18< mordante> servus
20140214 19:45:37< EliDupree> Backtrace for anyone who's interested, although it's not a debug build and I haven't been able to get a simple testcase... http://pastebin.com/EMwNn1r2
20140214 19:46:50< mordante> shadowm, I expect the pango cairo bugs to be bugs in cairo, but added them to my todo list
20140214 19:47:05< happygrue> hey mordante: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Multiplayer_Data_Analysis
20140214 19:47:14< mordante> hi happygrue 
20140214 19:48:22< happygrue> Not sure if I got all the points you made in there, but if anything is obviously lacking or wrong please let me know.  :D
20140214 19:48:23< mordante> shadowm, will also look at your listbox patches later
20140214 19:50:24< irker964> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master 0504f6c2ea93 / src/serialization/string_utils.hpp: Remove a no longer existing Doxygen param. http://git.io/vAegVQ
20140214 19:51:55< mordante> happygrue, just wondering can't the replay already reveal who one or do many games get abandoned once it's clear who will be the winner?
20140214 19:52:08< mordante> s/one/won
20140214 19:54:14< mordante> happygrue, looks nice as a start, but if you have more information regarding the project it would be nice to add
20140214 19:54:22< mordante> the more information the better
20140214 19:56:47< happygrue> mordante: many games end due to players surrendering via chat and agreeing to quit, some do end in leader death
20140214 19:57:36< mordante> yeah I already feared that, it's often boring to play until the end once it's clear who will be the winner
20140214 19:57:36< happygrue> others are saved to continue later, some get continued and others don't
20140214 19:57:53< happygrue> so we can't just assume the first player to leave in a game that isn't finished lost either
20140214 19:58:41< happygrue> even with a nice big button to "continue later" or "resign" many games won't be useful, but probably a lot will become useful and some do end in victory/defeat from leader deaths
20140214 19:59:31< happygrue> as for more information, I could write more but I wanted to make sure I was on the right track and also to see if a primary mentor could be determined.
20140214 20:00:08< happygrue> Soliton agreed to help but I'm not sure if he would become the offical mentor or not, and I don't think I can be the primary either, so right now we have two helpers ;)
20140214 20:03:45< mordante> happygrue, google will judge the applications on what we have written now
20140214 20:08:18< happygrue> so write more now and don't worry about mentor stuff yet I guess?
20140214 20:09:12< happygrue> going to be pretty busy the next few hours, the deadline for this is later tonight?
20140214 20:12:34< mordante> the application deadline was about an hour ago, I don't know when google will look at our application
20140214 20:12:56< mordante> however the projects ideas are not in the application, they are linked to our website
20140214 20:13:24< mordante> so we can still work on them, however the longer we wait the larger the chance google already looked at our application
20140214 20:14:13< happygrue> I see
20140214 20:14:21< mordante> I think it would also be important to find somebody willing to mentor the project soon
20140214 20:15:01< mordante> if nobody wants to mentor this idea it makes no sense to keep the idea
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20140214 20:43:15< irker964> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master 8a1ff1eca255 / CMakeLists.txt changelog src/CMakeLists.txt: Adds -Wold-style-cast to the CMake strict flags. http://git.io/t1hdtw
20140214 20:45:40< mordante> I'm off bye
20140214 20:45:53< Coffee_irc> bye mordante
20140214 20:46:26< Coffee_irc> EliDupree: that all looks accurate
20140214 20:46:48< EliDupree> _8680_ is the one you want
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20140214 20:48:14< Coffee_irc> _8680_: that link is a good summary of what the animationWML does
20140214 20:48:34< Coffee_irc> I put an earlier version under http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML#Progressive_string_square_bracket_expansion_syntax
20140214 20:49:48< _8680_> Coffee_irc: Which interpretation of the leading-zeros-expansion was correct?
20140214 20:50:05< _8680_> (If any.)
20140214 20:50:12< Coffee_irc> _8680_: it houldpad to the greatest amount of leading zeros within a bracket
20140214 20:50:17< Coffee_irc> *should
20140214 20:51:23< Coffee_irc> your page http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:8680/tmp/AnimationWMLProgressiveStringSquareBracketExpansionSyntax has it correct
20140214 20:52:29< _8680_> Okay. I don’t think square_parenthetical_split is correct then.
20140214 20:52:38< Coffee_irc> ?
20140214 20:53:10< _8680_> Looking at serialization/string_utils.cpp, lines 213–224,
20140214 20:53:20< _8680_> 2014-02-14  19:33:54  <_8680_> It appears that if the first endpoint has leading zeros, those will be used, and if it doesn’t, then any leading zeros on the second endpoint will be used.
20140214 20:54:07< _8680_> It only looks at the second endpoint’s leading zeros if the first endpoint doesn’t have any.
20140214 20:54:56< _8680_> I could fix it, if you’d like.
20140214 20:55:32< Coffee_irc> if you want to, or I should be able to do it (since it looks like I didn't do it right)
20140214 20:55:43< Coffee_irc> you are correct
20140214 20:57:05< Coffee_irc> except...
20140214 20:57:35< Coffee_irc> it might not come out right if there are 2 leading zeros of different lengths
20140214 20:59:48< Coffee_irc> [010~9] needs to be interpreted as bad syntax
20140214 20:59:59< _8680_> It does?
20140214 21:00:21< Coffee_irc> well.. you don't want that to expand to 10,09 I don't think?
20140214 21:01:13< Coffee_irc> that really is out of the scope
20140214 21:01:24< Coffee_irc> and behavior should be whatever you get
20140214 21:02:13< Coffee_irc> if you pad properly so that the number of significant digits match, it will work fine
20140214 21:02:39< Coffee_irc> and that's what happens at the moment
20140214 21:04:01< _8680_> Significant digits?
20140214 21:04:11< Coffee_irc> if the filles are numbered from 001 to 020, then [001~020] should be used
20140214 21:04:35< Coffee_irc> if from 0020 to 0001, then [0020~0001] should be used
20140214 21:04:46< Coffee_irc> this should match the filenames
20140214 21:05:29< _8680_> I’m afraid I don’t understand what you mean with significant digits. Leading zeros don’t count as significant digits.
20140214 21:05:53< Coffee_irc> well, I mean significant in the sense that they count (ppart of the filename)
20140214 21:05:54< _8680_> “001” and “020” don’t have the same quantity of significant digits.
20140214 21:06:02< Coffee_irc> 3 each
20140214 21:06:21< _8680_> The same quantity of digits, then.
20140214 21:06:25< Coffee_irc> like 0.01 has 2 significant digits (because you need to know where the point is)
20140214 21:06:44< _8680_> What about [0001~020]?
20140214 21:06:48< Coffee_irc> but the leading zero here is not important because it is a number (not a filename)
20140214 21:07:02< _8680_> Or [001~0020]?
20140214 21:07:04< Coffee_irc> _8680_: that is bad syntax
20140214 21:07:13< _8680_> Should an error be raised?
20140214 21:07:18< Coffee_irc> I suppose so
20140214 21:07:30< Coffee_irc> or probably a warning
20140214 21:10:00< Coffee_irc> I can do that
20140214 21:12:16< _8680_> I fixed the padding calculation, but I don’t know how Wesnoth would emit a warning.
20140214 21:12:35< _8680_> Shall I leave it to you, then?
20140214 21:12:46< Coffee_irc> yeah, I'm working on it
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20140214 21:44:37< shadowm> mordante: The problem on Windows is that there aren't newer builds available from gtk.org, and compiling our own seems ridiculously difficult.
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20140214 21:45:34< shadowm> happygrue: I never got around to release anything, no.
20140214 21:46:12< shadowm> mattsc: When you compiled your own, did you make sure to rebuild Wesnoth afterwards? (Dumb questin, but still...)
20140214 21:47:04< irker964> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth-old:master 60fe06b02ee8 / src/serialization/string_utils.cpp: AnimationWML: add warning for mismatched leading zero paddings in square bracket http://git.io/UNPZQA
20140214 21:47:10< shadowm> EliDupree: It's code I used to know, but then it was rewritten by another contributor, so I lost track of some implementation details.
20140214 21:47:15< Coffee_irc> _8680_: warning put in
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20140214 21:48:22< Soliton> Ivanovic: what would i need to do to become a mentor for that idea?
20140214 21:49:47< Soliton> happygrue: you should probably move the idea above "Other: Your own ideas" in the wiki. :-)
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20140214 21:55:19< Ivanovic> Soliton: be willing to regulary talk with a student
20140214 21:55:24< Ivanovic> during the summer that is
20140214 21:55:32< Ivanovic> provide the student with help and pointers
20140214 21:56:03< Soliton> i meant mostly on the organisational side.
20140214 21:56:37< Soliton> i guess i have to register myself somewhere or so.
20140214 21:57:04< Ivanovic> yes, on the org site you need to register in a google site
20140214 21:57:09< _8680_> Coffee_irc: Okay, good. Although the padding calculation fix should have been in a commit of its own.
20140214 21:57:13< Ivanovic> so that you can fill in the evaluations
20140214 21:57:36< Ivanovic> that is: you can help select a fitting student for the task and later on you have to write a (really short!) mid term and final evaluation
20140214 21:57:37< _8680_> Coffee_irc: Will that warning be shown in the game, or only on the console or log?
20140214 21:58:07< Soliton> do i need to do that now or only if we're actually going to take that task etc?
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20140214 21:58:27< Coffee_irc> _8680_: where all the other error messages appear, but the game tries to make do with the input if wrong
20140214 21:58:38< Coffee_irc> _8680_: I didn't change the way it works at all
20140214 21:58:55< _8680_> You didn’t change the way what works?
20140214 21:58:59< Coffee_irc> no
20140214 21:59:04< Ivanovic> Soliton: only once we are accepted
20140214 21:59:25< Ivanovic> then you can already register to participate in commenting/ranking
20140214 21:59:40< Coffee_irc> _8680_: the padding and leading zeros calculations
20140214 21:59:45< Ivanovic> if we decide to accept a student for the task you would have to sign up so that the student can be assigned to you
20140214 22:00:12< Soliton> Ivanovic: alright then i'll just say i'm willing to mentor that task if we find a good student/proposal.
20140214 22:00:17< Ivanovic> right now we are not even sure if we will be accepted into gsoc 2014, but i am rather confident that we'll get in
20140214 22:00:32< Ivanovic> Soliton: yes, that is the normal approach, it all depends on finding a suitable student
20140214 22:00:56< Ivanovic> it would be cool if you could already participate in talking to the students since this eases finding out if the student is "right"
20140214 22:01:32< _8680_> Coffee_irc: You did change that. Previously, it would only look at the second endpoint’s padding if the first endpoint didn’t have padding; now, it checks both and uses the greater padding value.
20140214 22:02:09< Soliton> sure.
20140214 22:02:52< Coffee_irc> _8680_: well.. from the point of view of any working code it hasn't changed
20140214 22:03:23< Coffee_irc> _8680_: only the cases where there are errors has it changed, and now it gives a warning on the terminal for those cases
20140214 22:03:25< shadowm> Ivanovic: Do you think anyone would mind if I went and edited their ideas pages for some grammar/style improvements?
20140214 22:03:40< Ivanovic> please edit it for grammar and style
20140214 22:03:50< Ivanovic> nobody will have a problem with this
20140214 22:05:17< _8680_> Coffee_irc: If someone had [01~003], it would previously have become [01,02,03]; now, it will become [001,002,003] (and a warning will be printed).
20140214 22:05:41< Coffee_irc> _8680_: yes, that's right
20140214 22:05:46< shadowm> "Page for the idea: SoC_Ideas2014_Template"
20140214 22:05:59< Ivanovic> [20:01:18] <carols> we officially got 371 apps this year.
20140214 22:06:00 * shadowm will fix that too as soon as he finds the actual pages.
20140214 22:06:18< Ivanovic> shadowm: best is to go via the gsoc2014 category
20140214 22:06:21< Ivanovic> all should appear there
20140214 22:06:33< Ivanovic> so only 317 proposals submitted this year
20140214 22:07:00< Coffee_irc> _8680_: the only possibly non obvious thing is that [01~1000] expands to 01...99,100...999,1000 and is good syntax
20140214 22:07:44< _8680_> Coffee_irc: So the functionality has changed. And even if it hadn’t, any change other than adding the warning message should have gone in its own commit.
20140214 22:08:16< _8680_> Or should at the very least have been mentioned in the warning-message-commit’s commit message.
20140214 22:08:33< Coffee_irc> _8680_: that line above worked like that before
20140214 22:08:59< _8680_> I was referring to [01~003], not [01~1000].
20140214 22:09:13< _8680_> Apologies if I was unclear.
20140214 22:09:26< Coffee_irc> _8680_: nothing new has been introduced really apart from the error (which says you need to recode it anyway)
20140214 22:09:57< Coffee_irc> _8680_: I figure it is okay for a feature that isn't yet used by UMC
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20140214 22:10:28< mattsc> shadowm: yes, I did a full clean and build.  And it's good to ask the dumb questions.  ("Is there gas in the tank?")
20140214 22:10:59< _8680_> A commit’s message should mention, describe, and explain all changes made in that commit. Not necessarily in the summary line, but certainly in the message body.
20140214 22:11:35< _8680_> Anyway, it’s fixed now; I’ll go update my documention draft.
20140214 22:11:55< _8680_> (“it” being the padding calculation.)
20140214 22:11:59< Coffee_irc> yes, I'll be happy to include it when you are finished with it
20140214 22:18:32< shadowm> FYI: I have updated all pages in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Category:Summer_of_Code_2014_Idea (including the template) to use == for first-level headers.
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20140214 22:19:09< shadowm> MediaWiki would prefer if you didn't use =.
20140214 22:19:30< Ivanovic> cool, thanks shadowm
20140214 22:19:46< _8680_> What’s MediaWiki’s problem with `=`?
20140214 22:20:01< shadowm> It produces <h1>.
20140214 22:20:18< _8680_> Yes, why is that a problem?
20140214 22:20:23< shadowm> The page title is also an <h1> element.
20140214 22:20:29< _8680_> Ah.
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20140214 22:20:47< shadowm> And semantically, all those headers belong under it, not alongside it.
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20140214 22:35:57< zookeeper> so is the khalifate likely to get renamed?
20140214 22:36:27< Ivanovic> zookeeper: i have no seen a thread on the ML stating this would happen
20140214 22:36:31< Ivanovic> so why would you think this?
20140214 22:38:34< zookeeper> i don't, that's why i asked
20140214 22:49:45< shadowm> wesbot: seen trademark
20140214 22:49:46< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick trademark last spoke 2d ago.  56m 46s ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 260 seconds
20140214 22:49:54< shadowm> trademark: "There is only one requirement, you must choose between being motivated or being a genius." ... Uh, what is this supposed to mean?
20140214 22:53:34< shadowm> It sounds like you are trying to make a statement about the project's difficulty level, but...
20140214 23:07:27< shadowm> happygrue: FYI I renamed http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Multiplayer_Data_Analysis to http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_Multiplayer_Data_Analysis
20140214 23:07:45< shadowm> Mostly so it wouldn't be listed after the Your Own Ideas placeholder.
20140214 23:08:22< shadowm> Okay, I'm done.
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 15 00:00:31 2014