--- Log opened Sun Feb 16 00:00:46 2014
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20140216 00:39:42< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 89f612a5ffb7 / src/widgets/menu.cpp: gui1: Add some horizontal padding to menu header column text and sort indicator http://git.io/jkWTEQ
20140216 00:39:46< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master f8f9338d5544 / src/widgets/menu.cpp: gui1: Highlight currently-sorted column header even when not hovered http://git.io/nWvSVA
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20140216 01:00:30< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master c054a5e89a3f / src/widgets/menu.cpp: gui1: Reduce menu column text padding to 2px, use only on headers http://git.io/T_Dm6g
20140216 01:00:33< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 393ebb447cc5 / data/gui/default/widget/progress_bar_default.cfg: gui2/tprogress_bar: Use same background as listbox (children) widgets http://git.io/1EyY8w
20140216 01:00:36< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master a4340c9375fa / data/gui/default/window/chat_log.cfg: gui2/tchat_log: Use GUI_FORCE_WIDGET_MINIMUM_SIZE macro instead of local hack http://git.io/hAhqbQ
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20140216 01:23:20< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master ecf62cdaf2af / data/gui/default/macros/_initial.cfg: gui2/ttoggle_button et al: Make GUI__BACKGROUND_COLOR_DISABLED transparent http://git.io/gbHE8A
20140216 01:23:23< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master ebc214ff124a / data/gui/default/widget/text_box_default.cfg: gui2/ttext_box: Use standard GUI__BACKGROUND_COLOR_* background colors http://git.io/T_MfYg
20140216 01:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 221 bugs, 349 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140216 01:29:39< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 9edee42b7e78 / data/gui/default/window/editor_edit_side.cfg: gui2/teditor_edit_side: Let the team id/name input boxes grow horizontally http://git.io/TVmvhA
20140216 01:29:42< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 304af6bb090c / src/editor/map/context_manager.cpp: editor: Use "Identifier:" instead of "ID" for the label for gui2::tedit_text http://git.io/K9eEJA
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20140216 02:22:47< irker082> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master 21565f63fa42 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/maps/16_The_Coward.map: SotBE S16: map changes for balancing purposes http://git.io/R88Rtg
20140216 02:22:49< irker082> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth-old:master bb977a5609f5 / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/16_The_Coward.cfg: SotBE S16: balancing adjustments to turns and gold http://git.io/1_-yQQ
20140216 02:23:22< mattsc> 16 down, 2 to go.  :P
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20140216 04:01:32< irker082> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth-old:master ebfe55d7fa7c / src/scripting/lua.cpp: add mp-only lua proxy for the current era, http://git.io/NsgEeA
20140216 04:01:35< irker082> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 3d10304490c0 / src/scripting/lua.cpp: Merge pull request #96 from cbeck88/lua-get-era http://git.io/ajRhNQ
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20140216 04:06:50< irker082> wesnoth: Sachith Hasaranga Seneviratne wesnoth-old:master e5193966b4dd / src/help.cpp: Fixed bug#21358: Dead links in help for unit variations http://git.io/8DcjUA
20140216 04:06:52< irker082> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master 3473592e0c30 / src/help.cpp: Merge branch 'bug21358' (PR #95) of github.com:sachith500/wesnoth-old http://git.io/FiDK2w
20140216 04:12:44< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 2734999839e6 / src/loadscreen.cpp: loadscreen: Update magic numbers http://git.io/Tn_hRg
20140216 04:18:43< Espreon> What do these magic numbers do?
20140216 04:18:55< Espreon> And why did they have to be updated?
20140216 04:23:12< iceiceice> lol
20140216 04:23:17< iceiceice> their magic was wearing off i guess
20140216 04:23:59< Espreon> Well, I did want a real answer.
20140216 04:24:07< Espreon> (Eh, I still do)
20140216 04:24:26< Espreon> shadowm: Perhaps you could enlighten me?
20140216 04:25:45< iceiceice> hmm...
20140216 04:26:08< iceiceice> based on looking at the file, i guess that what it means is that
20140216 04:26:15< iceiceice> when the game is loading, 
20140216 04:26:20< iceiceice> the progress bar is divided among these tasks
20140216 04:26:22< iceiceice> randomly apparently
20140216 04:27:47< iceiceice> so "updating the magic numbers" will change exactly which progress amounts correspond to which tasks
20140216 04:28:01< iceiceice> at least that is my guess
20140216 04:28:04< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/2734999839e628af001a089f4ed036b5261e9132/src/loadscreen.cpp
20140216 04:29:19< iceiceice> also see note at line 218:
20140216 04:29:28< iceiceice> The values have been automatically generated by running a cache-hot
20140216 04:29:28< iceiceice> * Wesnoth on HttH with the --log-info=loadscreen option
20140216 04:31:46< iceiceice> so in summary what i think is happening is, basically shadowm timed the wesnoth load sequence and figured out where the progress bar "should" be drawn based on how many stages you have made it through based on this
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20140216 04:48:59< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master ca7bac5f4fa6 / src/serialization/parser.cpp: parser: Cleaner display of the tokenizer state on errors with DEBUG http://git.io/XS_2jw
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20140216 07:24:21< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master f229367ca15d / src/serialization/string_utils.cpp: Return a copy of the original string with indent(str,0) instead of an empty one http://git.io/UZAAag
20140216 07:24:24< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master dd9b53f0dee3 / src/serialization/string_utils.cpp: Return the indentation unit instead of an empty string with indent("",n) http://git.io/ZV80UQ
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20140216 07:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 220 bugs, 348 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140216 07:41:28< mordante> servus
20140216 07:43:08< mordante> shadowm, I didn't expect the blurring to work properly in listboxes etc, but I think/expect it will be easier to implement with SDL2
20140216 07:46:48< mordante> Ivanovic, I've no blockers for 1.12 and the feature freeze
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20140216 07:52:14< shadowm> Espreon: What iceiceice said is mostly right. The loadscreen code doesn't work with any form of "timing", though; the load_stage struct type (the primary instance of which was altered by that commit) holds a stage id, the UI name for it, the initial progress bar step to which it corresponds (0-100), and the number of substeps used to calculate progress bar offsets from there. The number of substeps is stage-dependant. Parser ...
20140216 07:52:21< shadowm> ... stages, for example, increment the substep count every time <unnamed in parser.cpp>::parser::operator()() is executed -- that is, on every tokenizer step.
20140216 07:54:38< shadowm> Espreon: --log-info=loadscreen provides the recommended values reflecting the actual work done so that the progress increment is as smooth as possible with relation to the number of substeps performed in the stages that do have substeps. This really should be updated at least once before a feature freeze (the point at which one could expect mainline WML to remain more or less constant in terms of token count), but the last run ...
20140216 07:54:45< shadowm> ... and update was done by silene between 1.9.2 and 1.9.3.
20140216 07:56:00< shadowm> Espreon: Because a decidedly non-negligible amount of raw WML (i.e. the preprocessor's output) has been both added and removed in mainline during 1.9.x and 1.11.x, I decided that this was the best time to do it since most changes from this point onwards can be expected to result in negligible token count variation.
20140216 07:56:24< mordante> shadowm, do you want to change the front page update method soon, or at some point in the future?
20140216 07:56:46< shadowm> (Unless someone decides to adds a thousand new terrain graphic macros and accompanying client code this week.)
20140216 07:57:52< shadowm> mordante: I don't think I'd try writing the needed code until we have decided on its usefulness, or until after 1.11.10 is out, whichever comes first.
20140216 08:00:03< mordante> I think usefulness also depends on the amount of news items posted
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20140216 08:01:58< mordante> shadowm, I think it also would be better to have an inbox thread in the hidden forum where the proofreader can read it and then let the proofreader either notify you or post it in the news forum
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20140216 08:03:07< shadowm> Yeah, that could work. ... Assuming there will be a proofreader. Turuk hasn't been around since the 10th.
20140216 08:06:32< Espreon> shadowm: Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining.
20140216 08:10:00< mordante> well we can ask more people in the proofreader pool
20140216 08:10:06 * mordante looks at Espreon 
20140216 08:10:09< shadowm> ... I deeply regret messing with the parser and preprocessor's report format. Now that it's not an unreadable text wall, all the shortcomings of the existing design are suddenly so evident it's painful to behold.
20140216 08:10:14< Espreon> Uh...
20140216 08:10:28< Espreon> No thanks!
20140216 08:11:02 * Espreon hæts teh pryoofreedingz
20140216 08:11:43< mordante> too bad :-(
20140216 08:12:18< Espreon> I'm sorry, but it's just so boring.
20140216 08:12:30< Espreon> ... and it doesn't feel good either.
20140216 08:12:49< Espreon> Yes, it needs to be done, but I'm not the one to do it, I'm afraid.
20140216 08:13:02< shadowm> Espreon: Is the Spanish translation dead again?
20140216 08:13:11< Espreon> shadowm: I think it MIGHT be coming back.
20140216 08:13:25< Espreon> Though, I think it will die.
20140216 08:13:27< Espreon> ... again.
20140216 08:13:37< Espreon> It's been dead, truth be told.
20140216 08:13:39< Espreon> Why?
20140216 08:14:00< shadowm> I've noticed an unusual amount of Spanish-speaking players in 1.10 as of late, so I was wondering if we've been featured in some Spanish-speaking site or something.
20140216 08:14:21< Espreon> Nothing that I know of.
20140216 08:14:38< shadowm> Not sure what the translation stats in 1.10 look like compared to master for the essential textdomains, though.
20140216 08:14:53< Espreon> All I know is that some Catalan gentleman wants to take this thing over... and he's figuring things out, apparently.
20140216 08:15:06< Espreon> All I know is that master is atrocious.
20140216 08:15:16< Espreon> Hmm.
20140216 08:15:28< Espreon> I used that twice.
20140216 08:15:29< shadowm> Oh, 96% on 1.10 vs. 69% on master.
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20140216 08:16:07< shadowm> So yeah, keeping the core packages' translations relatively complete helps to make the end product accessible to English-impaired audiences.
20140216 08:16:16< Espreon> Indeed.
20140216 08:17:58< shadowm> Anyway, no, I don't think I'll be helping around with that translation. My Spanish has become rather rusty and translating is exhausting.
20140216 08:18:25< Espreon> Fair enough.
20140216 08:19:46< Espreon> Let's hope our prospective maintainer actually sticks around.
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20140216 08:21:54< mordante> Espreon, didn't you at some point transform all ... sequences in the campaigns to ellipses?
20140216 08:22:33< Espreon> No.
20140216 08:22:41< Espreon> Why?
20140216 08:23:43< mordante> I just wondered I thought you did the apostrophes, dashes, and ellipses
20140216 08:23:58< mordante> But I still saw ... in Two Brothers
20140216 08:25:33< Espreon> Nope, no ellipses.
20140216 08:25:52< Espreon> Just apostrophes, dashes, minus signs, ...
20140216 08:28:03< shadowm> Here's a related question: Why do some UI strings contain "'$foo'" using straight apostrophes and "‘$foo’" using curly single quotes? (Other than the fact that I recently abstained from committing a related change because my terminal emulator has problems with the latter due to my font configuration.)
20140216 08:28:06< mordante> now you confuse me is »...« transformed to »…« or not (sorry and I should of course have used ellipsis to lower the confusion ;-) )
20140216 08:29:21< shadowm> Although I guess the fact that badly-configured Windows text editors or Linux installations still default to ISO 8859-1 in this decade also contributed to my decision to abstain.
20140216 08:29:23< Espreon> We did not turn any instance of "..." to "…".
20140216 08:29:51< shadowm> Er, CP 1252 or ISO 8859-1, respectively.
20140216 08:30:04< Espreon> ... Mr. I-refuse-to-use-the-target-language's-quotation-marks
20140216 08:30:17< Espreon> shadowm: Who knows?
20140216 08:30:26< Espreon> Well.
20140216 08:30:28< Espreon> Actually...
20140216 08:31:02< Espreon> I think I told him to not change the ones in strings that get sent to the terminal.
20140216 08:31:51< shadowm> Oh right, there's also the problem that whoever tries to open stderr.txt on Notepad on Windows will see corrupted text because Notepad assumes CP 1252 unless it sees a UTF-8 BOM somewhere IIRC.
20140216 08:32:33< shadowm> gui2::show_error_message() is a notorious point of conflict since it displays the passed strings in the game UI _and_ sends them to stderr.
20140216 08:33:03< shadowm> Espreon: Told who?
20140216 08:33:19< mordante> shadowm, f229367ca15d5cc084ea343b6e7a745d289b877a confuses me, why didn't you simply change »return "";« with »return string;« ?
20140216 08:34:14< shadowm> Hum.
20140216 08:34:38< shadowm> I guess to make the diff in dd9b53f0dee35f0a7eb2ca49b1ccfcfe87eb041e more obvious.
20140216 08:35:22< mordante> yes, but that commit confuses me even more, why indent and empty string?
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20140216 08:36:35< shadowm> I was going to replace a hard-coded constant in src/parser.cpp and src/preprocessor.cpp with a call to utils::indent("").
20140216 08:38:48< shadowm> I believe the change makes sense regardless of whether its original justification lands in master or not, solely because I can ask my editor to increase the indentation level of an empty line and I get the same result.
20140216 08:42:23< mordante> I disagree, my editor does not and flags lines with only white space as an error. But if it's intentional then it's fine by me
20140216 08:45:07< mordante> I'm off bye
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20140216 08:53:46< shadowm> Yeah, sure, all editors work and may be configured differently (with my current configuration it'll also discard trailing whitespace from lines I edited before saving).
20140216 08:58:56< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 4f243644cb26 / src/serialization/string_utils.hpp: Update utils::indent()'s documentation for factual accuracy http://git.io/dY6NEg
20140216 08:59:43< Espreon> shadowm: I believe his name was Simons Mith.
20140216 09:03:15< shadowm> I wonder if rewriting the WML parser and preprocessor to use LLVM would make my life easier. </notserious>
20140216 09:03:38< Espreon> More questions?
20140216 09:03:43< Espreon> If not, I'll go to bed.
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20140216 09:04:46< shadowm> Espreon: Nothing more for now.
20140216 09:05:18< Espreon> All right.
20140216 09:05:29< Espreon> In that case, good night.
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20140216 09:27:09< shadowm> Okay, the parser/preprocessor error reporting sucks, period. I'll work on that for 1.14 because I'll need a significantly more intrusive set of changes to fix that than I originally expected.
20140216 09:30:42< shadowm> Ideally the error report's rendering (i.e. the text) should be completely distinct from its semantics so that the UI could do nice things like color highlighting and hiding unnecessarily long preprocessor traces (who wants to see that their bogus closing tag on foobar.cfg was preceded by 100 file inclusions?).
20140216 09:31:14< shadowm> Huh, this is starting to sound dangerously close to a GSoC project proposal.
20140216 09:39:57< vultraz> fendrin: did you manage to fix that help terrain sections missing images I mentioned to you?
20140216 09:43:48< vultraz> Ivanovic: do you need any help updating the help sections/manual?
20140216 09:44:01< Ivanovic> vultraz: sure, help is always nice!
20140216 09:45:29< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 9b36ef320753 / CMakeLists.txt changelog: fix the issue with cmake adding -NDEBUG http://git.io/1z26AQ
20140216 09:45:50< vultraz> what sections should I look at?
20140216 09:48:47< Ivanovic> vultraz: can you look at the text of manual.txt?
20140216 09:48:53< Ivanovic> i plan to create new screenshots "soon"
20140216 09:49:27< Ivanovic> shadowm: gsoc proposals are great!
20140216 09:49:29< Ivanovic> ;)
20140216 09:50:21< shadowm> Yeah, but I can't take responsibility for it without giving it more thought (plus I'd need to volunteer as a mentor...).
20140216 09:50:37< vultraz> you would make a good meteor
20140216 09:50:42< shadowm> No.
20140216 09:50:57< shadowm> Not to mention that it sounds like anyone competent enough could implement it in a couple of nights.
20140216 09:51:07< shadowm> *competent/motivated enough
20140216 09:54:40< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 8afb87e58bb0 / src/serialization/parser.cpp: parser: Refactor the migraine-inducing parser::error() implementation a bit http://git.io/RYwbPA
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20140216 10:22:35< shadowm> OKAY. I think I've found a simple stopgap measure for 1.12 that makes noisier WML error reports slightly more useful.
20140216 10:23:15< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/rCCEmp27   Line 21 onwards.
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20140216 10:25:12< shadowm> So: no indentation for parser location info, only for preprocessor inclusion trails (the \376line directive).
20140216 10:25:54< shadowm> And more specific location messages than "at $pos" where possible ("Opened at $pos", "Expected at $pos", "Closed at $pos").
20140216 10:27:45< shadowm> (Now if only we had color formatting...)
20140216 10:29:50< shadowm> Okay, probably should stick to starting uncapitalized to reinforce the notion of continuation there.
20140216 10:34:24< irker082> wesnoth: Chusslove Illich (Часлав Илић) wesnoth-old:master ba30b70fbe74 / l10n-track: Updated l10n-track. http://git.io/z4XS7w
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20140216 10:45:59< Ivanovic> mordante: okay, i can still reproduce the minimap issue but found some interesting information
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20140216 10:46:14< Ivanovic> it seems to only happen with the "pandora" theme and probably due to the different size of the minimap in it
20140216 10:46:24< Ivanovic> looks like it is not correctly initialized
20140216 10:46:30< Ivanovic> added the information to https://gna.org/bugs/?21584
20140216 10:47:08< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 6eb2e7346c56 / src/serialization/parser.cpp: parser: Refactor to pass translated STL strings to parser::lineno_string() http://git.io/jlodzg
20140216 10:47:11< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master 996b31def547 / src/serialization/parser.cpp: parser: parser::error() now takes the position message format as an argument http://git.io/qepTzw
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20140216 10:55:02< irker082> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master f29d8cf1a29b / src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp: preprocessor: Don't indent the immediate location of a preprocessor error http://git.io/pALT6g
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20140216 11:30:58< Ivanovic> what are the rule consequences of schedule-indoor and schedule-underground-illum ?
20140216 11:33:34< vultraz> I believe indoor is either chaotic or neutral equivalent, and illum is uh...neutral
20140216 11:33:58< shadowm> Is the latter even used in mainline?
20140216 11:34:09< zookeeper> it's not in schedules.cfg anyway
20140216 11:34:22< vultraz> shadowm: White Mage
20140216 11:34:47< vultraz> Or the Mage of Light. The one with the big-ass aura
20140216 11:34:49< shadowm> I thought we only had the image for UMC and that the implementation never actually happened (other than SCHEDULE_UNDERGROUND containing made-up WML syntax for some time).
20140216 11:34:52< shadowm> vultraz: No.
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20140216 11:46:29< shadowm> I guess it's time for me to complete my HttT playtest.
20140216 11:48:07< shadowm> It's my destiny. To finish the most anticlimatic Wesnoth scenario ever for the nth time.
20140216 11:49:10< shadowm> Hm, I'm on 1920x1080 here and I can't shake off the feeling that Asheviere's portrait is rendered _tiny_.
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20140216 12:27:33< Chusslove> Does someone have idea why these two images
20140216 12:27:39< Chusslove> data/core/images/maps/l10n/pt/titlescreen--overlay.png
20140216 12:27:44< Chusslove> data/core/images/maps/l10n/lt/titlescreen--overlay.png
20140216 12:28:01< Chusslove> have 10 times difference in size, although very similar content?
20140216 12:28:18< Chusslove> Both have been processed with wesnoth-optipng.
20140216 12:35:09< Chusslove> Now opened both in Gimp, deleted everything, exported back, sizes remain the same as before.
20140216 12:35:31< Chusslove> 2.2 MiB empty PNG image.
20140216 12:35:40< elias> Chusslove: the pt one contains the full map
20140216 12:35:41 * zookeeper looks
20140216 12:36:06< elias> the lt one is zero wherever alpha is zero
20140216 12:36:17< zookeeper> and yes, the pt one is done poorly
20140216 12:36:19< Ivanovic> Chusslove: i am currently redoing the screenshots for the ingame help (orbs, overlay, ...)
20140216 12:36:34< Ivanovic> Chusslove: it would be cool if you could apply that stuff to the translateable reference file
20140216 12:36:51< Chusslove> Ivanovic: Sure.
20140216 12:38:21< zookeeper> arguably my localization script should probably take care of that kind of stuff better
20140216 12:39:39< Chusslove> zookeeper: Well, I delete complete content in Gimp, export, still 2.2 MiB. Totally confused.
20140216 12:39:41< zookeeper> not to mention get rid of the stray pixels at the map border
20140216 12:40:04< zookeeper> Chusslove, "delete complete content" means what?
20140216 12:40:25< Chusslove> Open, hit Delete button, everything dissapears (full transparent).
20140216 12:40:39< zookeeper> well the pixels still have the rgb information, even if a is 0
20140216 12:40:46< zookeeper> a == alpha
20140216 12:40:47< Chusslove> Let me try that...
20140216 12:41:04< zookeeper> rather select all 0 alpha pixels and set them to rgba 0,0,0,0
20140216 12:41:30< Chusslove> Hm, right, when I removed alpha channel, got 5k export.
20140216 12:42:06< Chusslove> Interesting.
20140216 12:47:33< Chusslove> zookeeper: So... any idea why this happened? Should it be written to afterwards explicitly set 0-alpha pixels to RGB 0?
20140216 12:48:09< Chusslove> Or the script could do it?
20140216 12:48:11< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master b609e59a922f / / (13 files in 3 dirs): updated ingame help screenshots and description of orbs http://git.io/92L1kg
20140216 12:48:13< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master ff7547cc11b9 / doc/manual/ (9 files in 2 dirs): updates of ingame manual, part 1 http://git.io/SovGBA
20140216 12:48:15< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 93ef14dc3e2c / doc/manual/ (8 files in 2 dirs): updated screenshots for manual, part2 http://git.io/KqxGVA
20140216 12:48:17< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master f6e42f3bf690 / doc/manual/images/ (6 files): removed old screenshots from manual http://git.io/MXK1Yw
20140216 12:48:19< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master c3bbef109d68 / l10n-track src/serialization/parser.cpp src/serialization/preprocessor.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth-old http://git.io/eWMDfA
20140216 12:50:54< irker082> wesnoth: Chusslove Illich (Часлав Илић) wesnoth-old:master d04b1ba8deda / l10n-track: Updated l10n-track. http://git.io/WSfHpw
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20140216 12:54:26< zookeeper> Chusslove, i don't know why it happened, but sure the script could do it to make sure
20140216 12:55:19< zookeeper> i'm pretty sure GIMP has a save option to not write color information for fully transparent pixels and that it's probably on by default, so probably this guy toggled it off or something
20140216 12:56:44< Chusslove> zookeeper: Right, the option is there.
20140216 12:56:52< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 9295c49b7b44 / / (511 files in 28 dirs): pot-update and regenerated doc files http://git.io/rLEdaw
20140216 12:57:42< zookeeper> and before anyone asks, no i don't mind if someone fixes it by re-saving the file :p
20140216 12:58:03< Ivanovic> Soliton, shadowm: is there a way to update manual.wesnoth.org so that we can see the "real" manual from github?
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20140216 13:03:03< shadowm> It's a wiki page.
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20140216 13:04:18< Chusslove> zookeeper: I added the note on the wiki page, under step 5.
20140216 13:05:32< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master 5f4f1f2bc2f7 / doc/manual/images/ (game-screen-1.11.9.jpg right_pane-1.11.9.jpg top_pane-1.11.9.jpg): redid screenshots to allow complete description http://git.io/1niPhg
20140216 13:05:38< shadowm> Ivanovic, Soliton : I can make the manual from the/a git clone available somewhere under www.wesnoth.org while we decide on a vhost name (if deemed necessary).
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20140216 13:10:21< shadowm> Ivanovic, Soliton: http://www.wesnoth.org/manual/dev/manual.en.html  http://pastebin.com/u77YUZmm
20140216 13:11:13< shadowm> Updated hourly since they are symlinks to the doc/manual directories in the clones' working trees.
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20140216 13:14:50< zookeeper> Chusslove, cool, thanks
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20140216 13:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 221 bugs, 348 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140216 13:53:47< Velensk> Does anyone know why the alternate flags included with the game arn't used for multiplayer?
20140216 13:54:50< Ivanovic> shadowm: sounds great!
20140216 13:55:02< Ivanovic> shadowm: what about 1.10 as "old" stable?
20140216 13:55:41< shadowm> Ivanovic: See the pastebin -- those are the names available right now. (1.12 is a broken symlink for now, though, for obvious reasons.)
20140216 13:56:10< happygrue> Velensk: my guess would be that no one has taken the time to put them into any mainline maps, but there could be some other reason.  I don't even know about alternate flags for example, I must have missed that.
20140216 13:56:53< shadowm> So if you need to have a permanent link to 1.10 for some reason, you can use that... or you can use 'stable' which will become a link to 1.12 instead once 1.12.0 is announced.
20140216 13:57:05< Velensk> happygrue: I was just experimenting with it for EoFM, you don't need to put it into the maps, you can put it in the faction description and whenever the faction is used, the alternate flag would be used.
20140216 13:57:41< happygrue> I see
20140216 13:57:47< irker082> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth-old:master e6a15a68aa26 / doc/manual/manual.txt: updated UI description http://git.io/ZJi67g
20140216 13:58:01< Ivanovic> shadowm: ah, great
20140216 13:58:02< Ivanovic> thanks!
20140216 13:58:54< shadowm> np.
20140216 13:59:35< happygrue> so each faction could have a unique flag?  
20140216 13:59:39< Velensk> I was thinking that if there was no problem that would be something that could be added quite easilly (it took me less than two minutes to impliment it for EoFM and it worked fine the first time I tested it)
20140216 13:59:44< Velensk> yeah
20140216 14:00:05< happygrue> and they are all team colored?
20140216 14:00:12< Velensk> automatically done
20140216 14:00:24< Velensk> they're actually already used in the game for some campaigns
20140216 14:00:31< zookeeper> Velensk, the only reason i can think of would be that there's no high enough quality flag for every faction
20140216 14:00:37< happygrue> I think it would be great to try it, and see if it looks really messy in some sort of 6 player melee
20140216 14:01:08< happygrue> if we have different flags and colors and lots of players... if it's confusing then it's bad IMO, otherwise it seems cool - pending what zookeeper said
20140216 14:01:32< zookeeper> if you ask me then the long flag looks a bit meh, the others are ok i guess
20140216 14:02:17< Velensk> If you want to take a look at it, just put into the default factions {FLAG_VARIANT x} replacing x with one of the flat names. The flags are found in images
20140216 14:04:21< Ivanovic> shadowm: updated the page manual.wesnoth.org to point to the new url
20140216 14:04:47< Velensk> I'm not really a judge on quality but I could see the point. Among other things, it makes the quality relative. With one flag, the flag is 'a flag', when you have more the difference can make some look awkward or flat
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20140216 14:29:24< Velensk> In any case, I'd be willing to implement it if there were no problems. The only real problems that I see is that the knalgan banner seems a bit flat and there doesn't appear to be any kind of specifically drake flag.
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20140216 14:30:18< happygrue> who made the originals?  Maybe they or someone else could improve any that are lacking
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20140216 14:30:36< happygrue> it seems like a fun idea if it's up to passable quality
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20140216 14:31:16< happygrue> but I have low standards for that so it's best if someone who cares more about art than I do chime in too ;)
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20140216 14:38:25< Velensk> After searching the forum, I cannot find where most of the flags come from. I found the knalgan one which as I mentioned looked a bit flat to me, it was by someone nicked JLS, and the undead one by Eleasar
20140216 14:39:27< shadowm> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20942&hilit=knalgan+flag -- doesn't look like JLS to me.
20140216 14:40:30< Velensk> That's probably the one actually used in the game. The one I found by JLS was even lower quality.
20140216 14:40:40< Velensk> but the exact same concept
20140216 14:41:33< shadowm> git log -- images/flags  (not data/core/images/flags, long story) reveals some names in the commit messages.
20140216 14:41:45< Velensk> wait my mistake, JLS was using the knalgan flag as a base
20140216 14:42:18< shadowm> As with most of Wesnoth, there are multiple contributors over time, so it'd not be feasible to ask a particular person unless you are sure they can deliver.
20140216 14:42:35< shadowm> For example, Eleazar hasn't been active in Wesnoth in years.
20140216 14:46:55< mattsc> I have a question about SotBE.  S17 contains one of people's favorite tomato surprises: every 6 turns a large reinforcement shows up and brings 800 gold with it.  I added a message to the opening dialog about the units, but don't like the gold thing.  Options I've come up with:
20140216 14:46:56< mattsc> 1. Leave it as is (can make things unstable)
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> 2. Don't give added gold (scenario gets much easier)
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> 3. Add this gold as extra income each turn (that's 130 income!)
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> 4. Add it to starting gold (2400 extra gold!)
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> 5. Add it to starting gold and implement some sort of gold saving (has its own problems too)
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> I don't really like any of these ideas.  Personally, I'd change the scenario and make it much shorter with less gold/units, but it's obviously meant as the big penultimate battle scenario and I don't feel entitled to change its character entirely.
20140216 14:47:26< mattsc> Any comments, other ideas?
20140216 14:47:27< mattsc> zookeeper, all: ^
20140216 14:47:28 * zookeeper looks
20140216 14:48:28< Velensk> Is scenario 17 the one where you first have the hoard and are attacking the city?
20140216 14:48:52< zookeeper> no, it's the penultimate scenario
20140216 14:49:33< Velensk> Then I don't even remember this tomatoe surprise. It must not have phased me.
20140216 14:50:34< happygrue> been so long since I've played SotBE I have no useful input, sorry :D
20140216 14:52:46< mattsc> Velensk: the problem I have with it that is not so much that it's a tomato surprise (I actually like those!), but that it is _much_ easier if you manage to finish on turn 5/11/17/23 (e.g. with some lucky suicide strike) than if it takes you another turn and the next reinforcement/gold shows up.  It's "unstable".
20140216 14:53:32< zookeeper> mattsc, well, i'd prefer a steady high income over periodic lumps of gold. the lvl2/3 guards in the enemy camp drain most of his income, so maybe it'd work if 1) there was a bit more villages for him and 2) his guards were demoted to lvl2 and/or reduced (for example the rear guards are probably a bit redundant)
20140216 14:54:06< Velensk> Ah, I remember coming up with a similar plan during the first horde scenario. If you're brutal enough you could end that one before reinforcements arrived too
20140216 14:54:12< mattsc> zookeeper: yes, that's my preferred option too, for the reason I just mentioned.
20140216 14:54:35< mattsc> Velensk: yes, it's changed now in that one too.
20140216 14:54:41< zookeeper> as for the reinforcements, you could also change those to a steady trickle of 1-2 units per turn
20140216 14:55:25< mattsc> zookeeper: yes, but the gold drain is the same (more or less at least) for the 800 gold bonus - you need some of it to make up for the negative gold of the last 6 turns.
20140216 14:55:40< mattsc> So it would come out to be more or less the same, as long as the income = 800/6
20140216 14:56:13< mattsc> I've been thinking about the trickle of reinforcements as well.  Maybe make number and unit types random?
20140216 14:56:44< zookeeper> i have a feeling i've probably made the camp guards non-loyal when i've worked on the scenario
20140216 14:56:46< zookeeper> sure
20140216 14:56:51< Velensk> You could increase the number of guards and make them loyal. I happen to like the big wave effect as large waves of reinforcements are frequently more threatening than a trickle, even a large and steady trickle
20140216 14:57:29< mattsc> Velensk: that's true.
20140216 14:57:53< zookeeper> also, perhaps moving the whole camp a few hexes to the south would make it harder to rush him quickly
20140216 14:58:03< vultraz> Ivanovic: while you're doing screenshots, perhaps you should collect a few to put on the front page, showcasing the new UI and portraits
20140216 14:58:14< happygrue> you could do random straglers but also have someone take note of "a large enemy force one day's march away" or have the first wave be large and smaller straggler recruits after that if you wanted to keep some big wave but not lots of waves
20140216 14:58:42< mattsc> zookeeper: I don't think that's a big issue any more.  You now come into this scenario with _a lot_ less gold than you used to.
20140216 14:58:43< shadowm> vultraz, Ivanovic Isn't that what I do?
20140216 14:59:01< zookeeper> mattsc, okay
20140216 14:59:09< Velensk> Another alternative would be to not give him the reinforcements in gold, but to rather give him a bunch of units at the map edge, this give the player more of a chance to see what he's going to be running into. You can also in this fashion make them all loyal if you choose allowing you to give him a constant stream, and huge waves.
20140216 14:59:31< shadowm> vultraz, Ivanovic Except that I have made a point of not including any [message] dialogs in the screenshots because... well, start HttT with -r 1024x768 and behold the horror.
20140216 15:00:03< mattsc> Velensk: that is actually what is happening (they appear on the southern edge).
20140216 15:00:17< Velensk> all 800ish gold worth?
20140216 15:00:42< mattsc> Velensk: no, in the original version, a bunch of units appear _and_ the AI gets 800 gold.
20140216 15:01:06< zookeeper> wait, why are the reinforcements coming in at 18,34?
20140216 15:01:17< zookeeper> should surely be 22,38 instead
20140216 15:01:33< zookeeper> and/or 9,38
20140216 15:01:44< mattsc> What I have change that to at the moment is: the units keep appearing (but there's a warning message in the opening dialog), the gold is gone, but the AI gets ~100 income.
20140216 15:03:15< mattsc> zookeeper: hmm, yeah, I'll change that (that's the original setting, I didn't change it IIRC)
20140216 15:06:01< vultraz> shadowm: what horror? I only have 11.6 here
20140216 15:06:48< shadowm> Doesn't matter, it affects every modern version I have seen.
20140216 15:06:51< vultraz> oh wait, do you mean the tiny portraits o_O
20140216 15:06:59< shadowm> Yes.
20140216 15:07:09< vultraz> Da faq why are they so tiny
20140216 15:07:25< happygrue> tiny is the new large
20140216 15:07:34< shadowm> Yes, I think that's a frequently asked question, all right.
20140216 15:08:06< mattsc> Okay, so from what I am hearing how about this: keep the waves of units (with the warning message), but make them appear all the way at the southern edge; get rid of reinforcement gold and give AI high income instead; make guards loyal; and maybe add a small randomized trickle of units from the south on intermediate turns as well?
20140216 15:08:08< vultraz> shadowm: and uh...apparently if you maximize Wesnoth, the image gets bigger but then covers the text
20140216 15:08:46< shadowm> Okay no, that's probably a bug specific to switching resolution while in a GUI2 dialog.
20140216 15:09:58< vultraz> Probably
20140216 15:10:07< vultraz> But that doesn't say why the portraits are so SMALL
20140216 15:12:00< happygrue> mattsc: with regard to a warning message, I guess that depends on point of view.  If it's unbalancing because they player doesn't know then a warning is good, if the surprise is part of the fun then... dunno :D
20140216 15:12:57< mattsc> happygrue: if you ever play one of my campaigns you'll see that IMO the surprises are a lot of fun.  :P
20140216 15:13:05< happygrue> hehe
20140216 15:13:22< mattsc> But lots of people really don't like them, so I don't know about mainline.
20140216 15:13:24< happygrue> still going (slowly) through THoT right now testing to see if the lord nerf was too much
20140216 15:13:28< happygrue> but what should I play next?  :D
20140216 15:13:36< happygrue> I am getting back into campaigns after years off
20140216 15:13:45< vultraz> I guess scaling issues
20140216 15:13:57< mattsc> happygrue: SotBE on nightmare?
20140216 15:14:01< shadowm> No.
20140216 15:14:03< vultraz> shadowm: how come we can't have screenshots from larger resolutions
20140216 15:14:24< vultraz> 1024x768 is a kind of...outdated resolution
20140216 15:14:25< shadowm> The scaling algorithm is just fine. Scaling an image to 72x72 gives me a 72x72 image.
20140216 15:14:36< shadowm> Dunno, ask Ivanovic, not me.
20140216 15:14:40< vultraz> Everyone now days has a widescreen monitor
20140216 15:15:39< shadowm> Widescreen factor screenshots wouldn't look as nice on the gallery, that's for sure.
20140216 15:15:48< vultraz> Why?
20140216 15:16:26< shadowm> Because they are significantly farther from 1:1.
20140216 15:17:20< vultraz> Eh, true
20140216 15:17:27< vultraz> 1:1 looks like thumbnails
20140216 15:18:00< vultraz> But look at the youtube thumbnails, they're widescreen ratios and look fine
20140216 15:18:46< vultraz> and if you're wondering, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/95558676/dafaq.PNG
20140216 15:18:47< happygrue> mattsc: okay!
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20140216 15:19:06< happygrue> vultraz: :(
20140216 15:19:08< happygrue> not good
20140216 15:19:51< shadowm> In the end I'm only following orders regarding the screenshots, but as I said I'd rather not showcase bugs/misfeatures (pretty sure it's the latter).
20140216 15:20:36< vultraz> Ah, alright
20140216 15:22:11< mattsc> happygrue: cool - Turuk's done the first few scenarios (on nightmare), but he's not had time recently to continue, so it will be good to have another playtester.  :)
20140216 15:22:12< vultraz> shadowm: perhaps the portraits could be showcased on the frontpage download box
20140216 15:22:12< shadowm> Wow, I already told you what I thought about that.
20140216 15:22:12< mattsc> happygrue: if you do, let us know if it now is actually nightmarish 
20140216 15:22:12< shadowm> It won't happen unless people with a blue or olive title tell me what to upload.
20140216 15:22:12< vultraz> So basically Jetrel_ 
20140216 15:22:34< shadowm> I said blue or olive title.
20140216 15:22:41< vultraz> Jetrel_ has an olive title
20140216 15:23:13< shadowm> I didn't say "a person".
20140216 15:23:34< vultraz> Jetrel_ AND LordBob, then. Probably best to include the latter since he knows which ones are the best
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20140216 15:24:25< shadowm> I didn't say "only olive titles".
20140216 15:24:39< vultraz> fine, Zerovirus too
20140216 15:24:45< shadowm> Exclude that one.
20140216 15:24:47< vultraz> You're forgetting technically we both have blue titles as well
20140216 15:24:53< shadowm> No, we don't.
20140216 15:25:07< shadowm> We are Art Contributors but it's not our primary group.
20140216 15:25:10< happygrue> okay, so when did this portrait thing happen?  Must be very recent?
20140216 15:25:24< vultraz> Fine, fine
20140216 15:25:28< vultraz> What's wrong with Zero
20140216 15:25:30< shadowm> happygrue: I believe it's a combination of two factors:
20140216 15:25:38< vultraz> I guess Sleepwalker, then
20140216 15:25:42< happygrue> vultraz: how do I reporoduce your screenshot?  it is working for me with my several day old build
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20140216 15:26:06< shadowm> 1) [message] layout adjustments related to dealing with oversized portraits like Elilmandur-Rithrandil or whatever his name is, from TRoW.
20140216 15:26:21< vultraz> happygrue: have a [message] pop up with a non full-screen resolution and then maximize the wesnoth window
20140216 15:26:23< shadowm> 2) Blank padding issues with the portraits themselves.
20140216 15:26:33< shadowm> (HttT's Asheviere seems to suffer badly from (2)).
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20140216 15:30:04< zookeeper> as for screenshot size, yeah i think we could well move up a notch
20140216 15:30:05< happygrue> when I mess around with dragging the window size about bad things happen all over I guess, portraits being one of them.  But they do always fix themselves for me (so far) if I maximize the window again
20140216 15:30:44< zookeeper> i dunno if widescreen shots are a good idea, but at least something of height 960 or 1024 or something like that would make sense IMO
20140216 15:31:17< vultraz> happygrue: I directly maximized
20140216 15:31:49< happygrue> oops, got it to crash to the menu
20140216 15:32:06< happygrue> vultraz: that doesn't create a problem for me, maximizing always seems to fix anything the draging around caused
20140216 15:32:16< Velensk> by the way, does anyone know why sometimes units standing in a rainforest terrain lose their ellipse?
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20140216 15:34:04< happygrue> ah, got it vultraz
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20140216 15:35:38< mattsc> Velensk: maybe related to this:  https://gna.org/bugs/?21647 ?
20140216 15:35:59< mattsc> There really isn't enough information there to tell though.
20140216 15:36:11< happygrue> then again, the next message works fine.  It seems like doing the resizing looks really sloppy and causes all sorts of problems, but if you don't keep resizing things it sorts istelf out and is fine
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20140216 15:37:57< vultraz> happygrue: yeah, it's only the message present during the resize
20140216 15:37:58< happygrue> I guess it has to do with this:  https://gna.org/bugs/?19666
20140216 15:38:19< happygrue> should I post about the portraits also being impacted there, or is there already an open bug report for this?
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20140216 15:45:07< happygrue> vultraz: can I use your screenshot for a bug report?  I guess filing a new one is best
20140216 15:45:21< happygrue> I don't see exactly this reported anywhere
20140216 15:46:10< vultraz> happygrue: you were able to reproduce it, right? Just checking, since I only have 1.11.6 here (old laptop and I haven't been keeping up, so that's what I was using)
20140216 15:46:23< happygrue> yes I was
20140216 15:46:35< happygrue> though actually, if the portraits are tiny now...
20140216 15:46:49< happygrue> I'm not quite current
20140216 15:46:59< happygrue> mmm
20140216 15:48:28< vultraz> happygrue: only tiny at 1024x768
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20140216 15:53:50< happygrue> vultraz: https://gna.org/bugs/?21662
20140216 15:53:53< happygrue> if you want to add anything
20140216 15:57:02< vultraz> looks good
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20140216 16:10:53< happygrue> how tiny are the portraits?  I see them smaller but it's not terrible
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20140216 16:11:25< happygrue> Ah, I guess it depends on which portrait?
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20140216 16:36:27< elias> shadowm: what was the problem with wesnoth_addon_manager?
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20140216 16:57:13< Ivanovic> vultraz: which benefit would a 1920x1080 screenshot have besides showing that the interface does not scale nicely once it is too large?
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20140216 17:34:28< AI0867> elias: it not passing the PBL as-is to the server?
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20140216 18:29:20< Ivanovic> vultraz: since you asked if you could help with the manual / help: can you check if the abilities descriptions in help and manual still fit the mainline ruleset?
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20140216 18:34:42< mattsc> iceiceice: the logic of location_set:empty is backwards.
20140216 18:35:24< mattsc> It retruns nil when the set is empty, and true (well, not true, but something different from nil or false) when it is not empty
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20140216 19:01:32< aquileia> Jetrel_ : It just occurred to me that you might want to be informed about this... https://github.com/aquileia/wesnoth-resources/tree/master/shadow%20mages
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20140216 19:02:08< aquileia> Any feedback is welcome
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20140216 19:05:31< aquileia> While you approved of the base frames, the ranged animations were not reviewed yet
20140216 19:05:50< elias> AI0867: how can I test that?
20140216 19:06:02< elias> no campaign I download has a server.pbl
20140216 19:06:26< elias> and on my local server I just have a single file per campaign but don't know how to unpack it
20140216 19:06:56< elias> (in case a server.pbl is inside there and just not downloaded... which I assume is the case)
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20140216 19:20:31< fendrin> mattsc: hi
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20140216 19:22:12< mattsc> hi fendrin
20140216 19:23:46< fendrin> mattsc: The SLF is not behaving like used to bug. I can't find it anymore. 
20140216 19:24:21< AI0867> elias: that's because wesnoth does not upload it as part of the add-on archive. shadowm was complaining about the script filtering the PBL, whereas the wesnoth just reading it as WML and sending the config object
20140216 19:25:44< mattsc> fendrin: ... uh, I know I should remember what you're talking about, but ...  :P
20140216 19:26:48< fendrin> mattsc: You reported it iirc. I implemented the support for areas in SLF, resulting in some list filters not working anymore.
20140216 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) planned for February 22nd | asheviere (old server) will be shut down on 16th Feb 2014, migrate all stuff, cf dev mailinglist | 223 bugs, 348 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140216 19:27:25< fendrin> Iirc, it was related to giving x= but omitting y= or vice versa.
20140216 19:27:54< mattsc> Oh, right...  I think this was fixed already (by AI0867 maybe?).  Let me check.
20140216 19:28:52< mattsc> fendrin: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21488
20140216 19:29:17< fendrin> This one is quite strange to me. I read through the old code and came to the conclusion that it ignored single coordinate attributes. So it is not a mistake but some misunderstanding of what the old code did.
20140216 19:30:42< AI0867> yeah, once I found out what was going on, fixing things was quite simple
20140216 19:30:48< mattsc> fendrin: well, I have not looked at the code at all, but I do know that single-coordinate filters have always worked (I've used them quite a bit)
20140216 19:32:04< fendrin> AI0867: My refactoring of the code is not efficient but easy to read. I don't know if that was a good decision at that location.
20140216 19:33:14< elias> AI0867: ah, yes, thanks, I remember now
20140216 19:34:21< AI0867> fendrin: I wasn't all that sure either
20140216 19:34:32< AI0867> I did frequently get confused by this construction:
20140216 19:34:53< AI0867> if () {
20140216 19:34:53< AI0867>     ...
20140216 19:34:53< AI0867> }
20140216 19:34:53< AI0867> empty line
20140216 19:34:53< AI0867> else if () {
20140216 19:36:29< fendrin> Okay, I try to find a more elegant solution. In theory it is all about sets and intersection, sadly c++ or boost does not offer a easy and nice to use implementation of the mathematical "set" construct.
20140216 19:38:47< elias> hm, so the .pbl contents already are uploaded
20140216 19:39:00< elias> just not as a file "server.pbl" inside the archive
20140216 19:39:16 * elias is confused what needs changing and why
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20140216 19:45:39< mattsc> zookeeper: thinking about it, from a story point of view it doesn't make a lot of sense to make the guards in SotBE S17 loyal.  Why would those soldiers work for free?  So I'd rather increase the income by the amount needed to offset their upkeep.
20140216 19:45:48< mattsc> I know, WINR, but still ...
20140216 19:46:39< zookeeper> mattsc, my rationale would have been that they're his personal guard or something, so more "loyal" than regular troops
20140216 19:46:57< zookeeper> they don't need to be loyal, it was just one possibility
20140216 19:47:24< mattsc> zookeeper: sure, I guess that would work
20140216 19:47:31< mattsc> So which one do you prefer?
20140216 19:47:56< mattsc> From a playing perspective, I guess the difference is that the income would still be there and higher once the orcs start killing the guards...
20140216 19:49:02< zookeeper> whichever you think works better, really :p my guess is as good as yours
20140216 19:50:00< mattsc> Okay - well, I just switched them all over to loyal, so I'll leave it like that for now and save myself the 10 seconds of work to revert that.  :)
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20140216 20:01:05< elias> shadowm: campaignserver_client.py seems to do exactly the same as client.cpp already
20140216 20:01:25< elias> with the only exception that it requires the password field to be set, while client.cpp can auto-generate one
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20140216 20:14:25< irker710> wesnoth: Elias Pschernig wesnoth-old:master 10df18d7cf06 / data/tools/wesnoth_addon_manager: [wesnoth_addon_manager] Upload everything in the _server.pbl http://git.io/TR_2bw
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20140216 20:19:46< aquileia> shadowm: I just read about the possible blog usage of the news forum on the ML archive and the proposed complex manual update process... are you interested in a proposal for a simplification?
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20140216 21:31:08< shadowm> elias: But then why don't [feedback] and dependencies= work?
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20140216 21:36:10< irker710> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth-old:master d62fbe59fddd / src/sdl_utils.cpp: Clean up scale_surface to use only BLI on the Pandora too. http://git.io/CzjOKw
20140216 21:36:12< shadowm> elias: I mean, then why did you afterwards commit 10df18d7cf062585334247a73dd2fe7e2702a19c ? :p  (The problem is that [feedback] is not an attribute.)
20140216 21:37:28< lipkab> Ivanovic: ^^ There's a chance that that introduces a noticeable lag when scaling big images. Could you please test if that's the case?
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20140216 21:38:30< lipkab> (Best to start up a campaign and see if you get seconds of black screen before the story part begins.)
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20140216 21:38:48< Ivanovic> lipkab: we had seconds of black screen before the story screen came up
20140216 21:38:55< Ivanovic> i think that is why this was actually added
20140216 21:39:17< lipkab> Yeah, but that was a different algorithm.
20140216 21:39:33< lipkab> That made even a desktop machine lag.
20140216 21:39:44< shadowm> Multi-page storyscreen setup is noticeably slow on PC with -O0 builds, not so with -O3.
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20140216 21:40:33< Ivanovic> lipkab: i won't manage to test it today
20140216 21:40:41< Ivanovic> lipkab: can you remind me to test it tomorrow?
20140216 21:40:46< lipkab> Ivanovic: Sure.
20140216 21:40:51< Ivanovic> thanks
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20140216 22:00:47< elias> shadowm: ahh, I see
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20140216 22:08:35< irker710> wesnoth: Elias Pschernig wesnoth-old:master ae3697d4e8e1 / data/tools/ (wesnoth/campaignserver_client.py wesnoth_addon_manager): [wesnoth_addon_manager] Also upload sub-sections from the .pbl. http://git.io/Hj6AwQ
20140216 22:19:01< iceiceice> mattsc: regarding this lua...:empty function. maybe the simplest thing is to just rename it to "location_set:not_empty"?
20140216 22:23:16< iceiceice> i guess if someone is using it right now they might not be happy, but since it was clearly bugged, i think most likely no one has tried to use it but slowthinker
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20140216 22:23:58< iceiceice> i think it makes more sense then negating the intermediate value... we can just let the programmer to do that as desired, it will be more efficient
20140216 22:30:54< mattsc> iceiceice: yeah, that's definitely an option.  And if you look at the example on the wiki, I assume it was meant to work that way (given that assert throws an error if the argument is nil/false).
20140216 22:33:48< iceiceice> yeah it looks like currently the code on the wiki would produce an error ><
20140216 22:35:04< mattsc> Well, I think it's supposed to
20140216 22:37:47< iceiceice> hmm that was not how i read it
20140216 22:38:10< iceiceice> my interpretation was, it was showing that you might create an empty list this way, and then you should be able to assert that it is empty
20140216 22:38:47< iceiceice> but in fact this would produce an error
20140216 22:39:16< iceiceice> if we rename the function to not empty, then what you should write is:
20140216 22:39:24< iceiceice> local some_set = location_set.create();
20140216 22:39:33< iceiceice> assert(not some_set:not_empty())
20140216 22:40:09< iceiceice> and i guess that would work
20140216 22:40:31< mattsc> Well, my interpretation is: look, here's how I make an empty list create an error, because for some operation that I am doing I am relying on it not being empty.
20140216 22:40:36< mattsc> But it really doesn't matter.
20140216 22:40:57< iceiceice> i see, i guess usually as i understand you assert things that you believe to be true
20140216 22:41:09< mattsc> Either way, the logic is backward, so we either need to rename the function, or make it return the opposite.
20140216 22:41:15< iceiceice> ok
20140216 22:41:53< iceiceice> so i propose we rename it to "location_set.non_empty"
20140216 22:41:56< iceiceice> and change the wiki to reflect that
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20140216 22:46:53< mattsc> sounds good to me - you could suggest that in the bug report and we wait a couple days to see if somebody objects
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20140216 22:58:47< iceiceice> ok
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20140216 23:45:30< mattsc> iceiceice: still around?  SlowThinker does have a point there...  Not that it's all that important, as he also says ;)
20140216 23:45:47< iceiceice> hey im here, ill have a look
20140216 23:45:50< mattsc> It's easy enough to have empty() work as desired also.
20140216 23:46:41< iceiceice> yeah i think thats the best thing maybe
20140216 23:47:59< mattsc> ... and in that case it might also make sense to have it actually return false/true, rather than nil/index-of-first-element
20140216 23:49:42< mattsc> Cool, I just tried what Lua returns for 'not 42'
20140216 23:50:32< mattsc> It's 'false', while 'not nil' is 'true', so all this takes is a 'not' in front of the returned value
20140216 23:50:57< iceiceice> sure
20140216 23:51:13< iceiceice> yeah i guess that is preferable to returning nil vs non nil
20140216 23:51:23< iceiceice> not knowing lua that well i can't really say though
20140216 23:51:56< iceiceice> yeah i guess negating the result is probably the best fix
20140216 23:52:29< iceiceice> im going for food, bbl
20140216 23:52:39< mattsc> Well, if you just use it in conditionals of type 'if locset:empty() then ..." it really doesn't matter, but ot feels "cleaner" actually having it return a boolean.
20140216 23:52:47< mattsc> bon appetit
20140216 23:52:48< iceiceice> yeah i agree
20140216 23:52:50< iceiceice> c u
--- Log closed Mon Feb 17 00:00:13 2014