--- Log opened Sun Feb 23 00:00:01 2014
20140223 00:00:57< happygrue> iceiceice: I think abort while creating an autosave is the right option, no need to create a file name.  If they want to do that they can replace with a local player and do it the long way
20140223 00:01:03< AI0867> fabi_: yes
20140223 00:01:38< iceiceice> happygrue: thats part of the issue though
20140223 00:01:44< iceiceice> if they replace with local player they get vision
20140223 00:01:58< iceiceice> we want to give them a way to save and never get vision i guess
20140223 00:02:10< happygrue> yeah, just have it be an autosave is my thought
20140223 00:02:18< iceiceice> hmmm ok
20140223 00:02:30< happygrue> Wesnoth players know that saves are sorted by time, the most current is the one they want
20140223 00:02:35< happygrue> I don't think that's confusing at all
20140223 00:02:46< iceiceice> yeah thats right
20140223 00:03:00< iceiceice> maybe can tag it "autosave-DC-..."
20140223 00:03:06< happygrue> if the option is "Abort (creates autosave), or even just as it is now is fine
20140223 00:03:13< iceiceice> i'll look into it
20140223 00:03:58< fabi_> AI0867: I wanted to implement an attribute for the theme wml, to adjust the font color from the theme and not being hardcoded in reports.cpp any more. Then I discovered an undocumented attribute, font_rgb from 2005. But it behaves strange, the rgb code for grey gives some blue letters. Would you have a look at it, please?
20140223 00:04:23< AI0867> can you give me some usecases?
20140223 00:04:42< happygrue> alternatively, autosaves that result from this could get an additional bit added to their name to indicate that they are the result of disconnection, but I don't think that matters
20140223 00:04:48< iceiceice> shadowm: there was this issue i found with config::merge_with a few days ago,
20140223 00:04:51< iceiceice> "20140218 01:57:07< iceiceice> hi: i think i may have possible identified a bug in config.cpp , in the "merge_with" function
20140223 00:04:51< iceiceice> "
20140223 00:05:17< iceiceice> i thought it would be trivial to fix but i guess we haven't got a patch yet, should i make a bug report about it so we don't forget about it?
20140223 00:06:23< iceiceice> at least i think we dont have a patch yet...
20140223 00:06:25< iceiceice> let me check to be sure
20140223 00:06:54< iceiceice> y it looks like the file hasn't changed
20140223 00:08:08< iceiceice> i wasn't sure what the protocol is, if i find i bug like that, the person who wrote it should patch it right, since presumably they already had already done some testing that i don't know about?
20140223 00:08:12< AI0867> shadowm: which characters do we *not* allow in filenames?
20140223 00:08:36< AI0867> shadowm: there's an issue with space-separated filenames, so I'd like to know what I can replace that with
20140223 00:08:52< Espreon> For the few who care, what are we going to do about the fact that the translators don't know how to deal with the Khalifate units' names?
20140223 00:09:02< AI0867> if the add-on server disallows it, that's fine, we can have mainline behave
20140223 00:09:45< Espreon> How the names are pronounced in Arabic itself is a complicated story, I believe.
20140223 00:11:33< AI0867> the transliteration has vowels
20140223 00:11:39< AI0867> that's a big improvement
20140223 00:12:08< fabi_> AI0867: The only usage in mainline is in data/core/macros.cfg
20140223 00:12:11< Espreon> Arabic vowels can be realized in many different ways, I believe.
20140223 00:12:23< Espreon> Depending on dialect and the phonological enviornments they appear in.
20140223 00:12:59< Espreon> And no, it's not just "Oh, this A is slightly different". To a European language speaker's ears, I believe the different would be dramatic.
20140223 00:13:37< AI0867> ~/src/wesnoth-master$ grep font_rgb data/core/macros/ -r
20140223 00:13:39< Espreon> /a/, I think, can be realized as [æ] or even [e]. And those are very different sounds that have nothing to do with [a], to us.
20140223 00:13:43< AI0867> ~/src/wesnoth-master$
20140223 00:14:11< fabi_> AI0867: Sorry, data/themes/macros.cfg
20140223 00:15:02< Espreon> For those who care, the first realization is like the "a" in "cat" while the other is between the "e" in "set" and the "ay" in "hay"
20140223 00:15:12< AI0867> fabi_: that's in the replay theme?
20140223 00:15:21< fabi_> yes
20140223 00:15:39< AI0867> 160,160,160 looks grey to me
20140223 00:16:01< AI0867> if you have a case where it doesn't, please pastebin it or something
20140223 00:16:14< fabi_> I don't know if the one works. All my attempts to use it resulted in strange results. Maybe the problem is that there are different rgb encodings?
20140223 00:16:16< Espreon> AI0867: So no, transliterations don't completely solve it.
20140223 00:18:33< iceiceice> Espreon: from what i have read on forums, translators in the past have had a very difficult time with concepts like "merman" or "naga" that don't exist in some other cultures. intuitively it seems to me that terms like "desert horseman" should be relatively easy to translate
20140223 00:18:48< iceiceice> do you think we will at least be able to do as good a job with "Jundi" as we did with "naga"?
20140223 00:19:22< Espreon> iceiceice: Perhaps some translators would like to keep the Arabic names.
20140223 00:19:32< iceiceice> i see
20140223 00:20:11< shadowm> AI0867: In what context?
20140223 00:20:28< Espreon> iceiceice: But they have to be put in the target language's native alphabet or whatever.
20140223 00:20:33< shadowm> iceiceice: I recommended asking fabi_ since he knows how the merge thing is supposed to work.
20140223 00:21:14< jamit> So, I've looked at some of the Internet's discussions around the compile issue I bumped into earlier. I see some disagreement and ambiguity, but in the end, it looks like clang has decided that my code did not fit the standard. And we target clang as a compiler.
20140223 00:21:20< shadowm> I for one only know that I've seen warnings in stderr about an unrecognized '__remove' attribute in several occasions, but I haven't really kept track of the issue.
20140223 00:21:39< shadowm> That is, no idea how to reproduce or whether it's been fixed already or whether it's related to the bug you found.
20140223 00:21:42< jamit> It would be nice, though, if gcc also caught the construction as invalid. Locally, I can blame my older version (4.4.3), but travis uses 4.6.
20140223 00:22:10< shadowm> jamit: gcc 4.8.2 here didn't complain either, but I'm using clang 3.3 as a default compiler for Wesnoth.
20140223 00:22:42< jamit> In case anyone is interested, a gcc discussion of a similar compiler issue: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=42844
20140223 00:23:27< jamit> and clang: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.clang.devel/27771
20140223 00:23:40< jamit> shadowm: I guess the compilers just do not agree on how to read the standard. :(
20140223 00:23:49< iceiceice> shadowm: i have seen simialr warnings on stderr
20140223 00:24:04< iceiceice> jamit: i also looked into this thing about the standard, i agree that making it a bug doesnt make much sense
20140223 00:24:07< shadowm> iceiceice: Uh you went and committed the case fix... :p
20140223 00:24:31< iceiceice> the argument seems to be, if you made initialized a const POD data type with default constructor that would be useless... so defining a class that way should be an error
20140223 00:24:35< shadowm> SInce we in string freeze, changes to pofix and the translation templates and catalogues are also required. I'm on it, though.
20140223 00:24:45< jamit> I'll try to remember this idiosyncrasy, but I might have to rely on travis in the future.
20140223 00:24:49< iceiceice> but really it should be, it would be useless, so no one would do that... right/
20140223 00:24:50< iceiceice> ?
20140223 00:25:10< shadowm> jamit: What system are you using there?
20140223 00:25:11< jamit> On another topic, iceiceice, what is the problem with config's merge?
20140223 00:25:15< iceiceice> but yeah i guess it doesn't matter what the standard is, it only matters what the compiler implements
20140223 00:25:23< iceiceice> jamit: i'll paste from previous log
20140223 00:25:39< jamit> shadowm: Ubuntu 10.3
20140223 00:25:39< jamit> Or .5, whatever the number is.
20140223 00:25:47< shadowm> What the standard is actually matters because different versions of the same compiler may behave differently as a result.
20140223 00:26:22< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/y43uJGGQ
20140223 00:26:26< shadowm> e.g. version A.B.C implemented XYZ feature in a non-standard fashion and then A.D.E does it right, breaking code relying on A.B.C's broken behavior.
20140223 00:26:57< iceiceice> sure
20140223 00:27:12< iceiceice> but heres no guarantee that the last common denominator of the compilers is close to the standard
20140223 00:27:26< iceiceice> *s/heres/theres, s/last/least
20140223 00:28:44< iceiceice> shadowm: thanks re: string freeze
20140223 00:29:58< jamit> iceiceice: Ah, yes. When dealing with configs, if you are reading an attribute that might not exist, you generally want to read it from a const config to avoid adding unneeded entries. If we had some sort of "general introduction to Wesnoth's common data structures", that tidbit should go in there.
20140223 00:30:21< iceiceice> i feel like its actually very well documented
20140223 00:31:03< iceiceice> idk what are the other important common data structures unique to wesnoth?
20140223 00:31:54< shadowm> Espreon, Ivanovic: Uhm, I'm getting a lot of noise in the diff due to the existing entries in stringfixes...
20140223 00:33:32< shadowm> config and children, unit_map, wide_string are the most important ones IMO.
20140223 00:33:48< shadowm> wide_string is really just a uh vector of wchar_t.
20140223 00:34:12< shadowm> Why it's not a basic_string instead, no idea.
20140223 00:34:15< iceiceice> yeah i guess the unit_map is some highly optimized thing ...
20140223 00:34:24< iceiceice> but its highly unlikely you will write a function that creates and destroys a unit map
20140223 00:34:41< shadowm> wide_string is not so much a data structure as it is a design pattern that people should make sure to understand.
20140223 00:34:50< iceiceice> i dont think i have noticed wide_string yet
20140223 00:34:52< Espreon> shadowm: What kind of noise?
20140223 00:34:54< Espreon> Show me.
20140223 00:35:40< shadowm> Espreon: Sure... http://pastebin.com/DA3LVbEw
20140223 00:35:40< iceiceice> unrelated: has anyone else noticed that the desktop notifications that wesnoth sends to ubuntu seem to be bugged?
20140223 00:36:01 * shadowm uses KDE on Debian, not (Unity on?) Ubuntu
20140223 00:36:16< iceiceice> do you get desktop notifications?
20140223 00:36:40< shadowm> Yes, and they seem to behave in an unusual fashion but I can't quite put my finger on it.
20140223 00:36:47< iceiceice> i get a little popup whenever a said changes i think... but they tend to contain innacurate text somehow
20140223 00:36:53< iceiceice> yeah im not sure where in the code those are being generated
20140223 00:37:00< shadowm> The basic notifications support seems horribly rushed, so...
20140223 00:37:06< Espreon> "$unit.language_name $unit.name from Lieutenant Gadoc's squadron reporting for duty," ... Ugh.
20140223 00:37:12< jamit> I'd also add unit, team, and gamemap since they are common, but yeah config and unit_map would be the big two on my list.
20140223 00:37:18< Espreon> Also... that crappy apostrophe.
20140223 00:38:10< Espreon> shadowm: I don't see what the problem is. If you don't want to deal with the other changes, just commit the relevant files.
20140223 00:38:17< iceiceice> i think the thing that is much harder to understand in wesnoth is that the "basic codepaths" are not really documented at all
20140223 00:38:18< Espreon> Or rather, the relevant changes.
20140223 00:38:49< shadowm> unit isn't so much a data structure as it is a terrifying alien lifeform.
20140223 00:39:20< AI0867> shadowm: preprocessor
20140223 00:39:25< iceiceice> like this comment here:
20140223 00:39:26< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/blob/master/src/multiplayer.cpp#L417
20140223 00:39:33< iceiceice> thats something that can easily save someone like 45 minutes
20140223 00:39:52< shadowm> AI0867: You can't {brace include} a path with whitespace in it becase that's ambiguous with the macro argument syntax, I think we can all agreeon that.
20140223 00:40:22< shadowm> I think including a directory that contains files with whitespace in their names in the absence of a _main.cfg in it will work, though.
20140223 00:40:41< iceiceice> i think it took me a while of randomly hacking around on easy coding tasks before i started to get a sense of, which files correspond to the "outer" engine, and in what order they are supposed to do things
20140223 00:41:12< AI0867> shadowm: well, elias commented out my code because apparently, paths with whitespace broke it
20140223 00:41:36< AI0867> !log 8aa0febfde421f4f2a
20140223 00:41:56< AI0867> where is shikadibot?
20140223 00:43:16< shadowm> She probably ended up in a broken server.
20140223 00:43:40< AI0867> # Note: filenames contain spaces so this is bogus
20140223 00:43:43< shadowm> Oh, she crashed.
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20140223 00:44:32< shadowm> I've been abusing rajaniemi.freenode.net a lot today, hm.
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20140223 00:45:16< shadowm_desktop> ...
20140223 00:45:23 * shadowm_desktop shakes fist as AI0867.
20140223 00:45:25< shadowm_desktop> *at
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20140223 00:51:05< jamit> iceiceice: merge_with is fixed.
20140223 00:51:21< iceiceice> cool, thanks :)
20140223 00:51:28< iceiceice> now i can forget about this
20140223 00:51:40< iceiceice> a great burden is lifted !
20140223 00:51:49< jamit> Any other quick fixes before I turn to the bug tracker? :)
20140223 00:52:21< iceiceice> hmm dont think so... i figured out what part of code is making notifications, im trying to figure out what its doing
20140223 00:53:36< mattsc> jamit, iceiceice: how about the double-kill bug?
20140223 00:53:50< iceiceice> oh i havent been thinking about that
20140223 00:53:52< jamit> mattsc: which bug is that?
20140223 00:53:55< iceiceice> thats probably a good thing to look at
20140223 00:54:34< jamit> It sounds rather... deadly.
20140223 00:54:43< iceiceice> so the short version is, if you "kill" a unit while it is already being killed,
20140223 00:54:47< iceiceice> in the sense that its animation is playing,
20140223 00:54:55< iceiceice> it puts the first animation on hold and does the second one,
20140223 00:54:57< iceiceice> then kills it,
20140223 00:55:04< iceiceice> then the first one tries to resume and dereferences a null pointer
20140223 00:55:12< mattsc> jamit: it's an old bug (I'll look it up in a moment), but essentially it happens when two animations with wait_for_end get triggered simultaneously in debug mode.
20140223 00:55:31< iceiceice> here's my notes from convo with mattsc:
20140223 00:55:31< mattsc> Oh, yes, as iceiceice is saying  :)
20140223 00:56:10< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/cBxnchgg
20140223 00:57:16< mattsc> jamit: the double-kill (with shift-k in debug mode) is just one manifestation of it.  You can also get there with double-create, using :lua to play animations or combinations thereof.
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20140223 00:58:34< jamit> The default control scheme is supposed to be identical to 1.10's at this point? Any differences are bugs that should be fixed?
20140223 00:58:37< jamit> (Like a middle-click no longer scrolling the map.)
20140223 00:59:14< shadowm_desktop> jamit: It wroks for me? Perhaps you disabled the middle-click scrolling option in Advanced preferences?
20140223 00:59:39< iceiceice> oh so i had some odd control scheme issue -- i might not have the detail quite right but let me try any way
20140223 00:59:59< iceiceice> so since forever, if a unit is out of moves, if you click in a way that would order the move, it remembers the move for future turns
20140223 01:00:09< iceiceice> and plays them at the start of your turn (perhaps subject to a preference?)
20140223 01:00:24< iceiceice> and *i believe* in the past you would cancel such orders by double left click on the unit
20140223 01:00:37< iceiceice> but in the current build, i'm not sure how to cancel those orders anymore
20140223 01:01:11< mattsc> jamit: and just for reference, here's the bug report:  https://gna.org/bugs/?18921
20140223 01:01:18< iceiceice> i might be confused about some aspect of this, but whatever is the right way to cancel those, i would like to know
20140223 01:02:40< mattsc> iceiceice: that sounds like a question for fabi_ 
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20140223 01:06:25< jamit> shadowm_desktop: I'll check the advanced preferences, but I don't recall changing anything in there recently.
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20140223 01:07:38< jamit> iceiceice: yes, the inability to cancel a "goto" order is on my list of oddities to check.
20140223 01:07:58< iceiceice> ok thx
20140223 01:08:46< jamit> I also noted that if you select a unit while a different unit is moving, that unit gets unselected at the end of the move.
20140223 01:09:21< iceiceice> shadowm: i think i figured out what's wierd about the notifications
20140223 01:09:33< iceiceice> it seems that it organizes the messages by the *speaker* taking them out of context
20140223 01:09:39< jamit> "n" with only one unit with movement causes no unit to be selected instead of reselecting the current unit (assuming the current unit is the one with movement).
20140223 01:10:17< jamit> Not sure if I did anything weird to cause them, though.
20140223 01:10:41< mattsc> jamit: another thing that, IMO, should be done is to go through patches.w.o and either apply or throw out about 90% of them ...
20140223 01:10:57< mattsc> I'd do that, but for many of them I am not qualified to do so.
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20140223 01:12:38< Espreon> shadowm: You got my response, right?
20140223 01:13:14< jamit> mattsc: Maybe bring that up after the feature freeze? There's a mix of fixes and enhancements in there.
20140223 01:13:43< shadowm> Espreon: The one about committing only the relevant changes? Yes, and already did so.
20140223 01:13:45< mattsc> jamit: yeah, it's on my list to do that
20140223 01:13:49< Espreon> shadowm: OK
20140223 01:13:55< shadowm> ... by editing pofix.py in between commits to exclude all other rules.
20140223 01:14:16< Espreon> OK
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20140223 02:07:09< shadowm> Somebody here forgot to add a changelog entry! Ten years ban.
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20140223 02:09:05< irker750> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth-old:master b995ae5003f7 / changelog: Add a 1.11.10 changelog entry I really should have added before tagging http://git.io/Ie4YNA
20140223 02:09:39< shadowm> Curses! I thought irker was stuck in the dead part of freenode!
20140223 02:12:14< Espreon> Huzzah
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20140223 02:32:45< AI0867> wesbot: seen elias
20140223 02:32:45< wesbot> AI0867: Queried user last spoke 2d ago.  elias is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-de.
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20140223 02:48:55< shadowm> bumbadadabum: Do you know of any particular scenario with an improved map since 1.10 that would be nice to see in screenshots?
20140223 02:49:01< shadowm> Mainline, obviously.
20140223 02:49:07< bumbadadabum> uhh
20140223 02:49:13< bumbadadabum> EI S1 looks pretty ok IMO
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20140223 03:20:41< shadowm> bumbadadabum: But that one doesn't seem changed since 1.10?
20140223 03:20:51< bumbadadabum> the map is updated
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20140223 03:48:45< irker750> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 337fe6535cd7 / src/display.cpp: Rename some variables to reduce confusion. http://git.io/ZgARRg
20140223 03:48:47< irker750> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 46b87250cd7a / data/core/images/terrain/fog/fog-all.png src/display.cpp: Better support of removing fog from a single hex. http://git.io/7XDusA
20140223 03:55:29< mattsc> jamit: you're still up for ideas of what to look in for potential fixes?  I have a couple things I have always been wondering about.
20140223 03:55:52< mattsc> I have no idea whether they are trivial to fix or impossible without a complete rewrite...
20140223 03:56:05< mattsc> s/in/into
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20140223 03:57:13< mattsc> One is this: if you start a test scenario from the CL with the -t option, then load a game, then load another game, Wesnoth segfaults.  (as in, you can load once, but on the second time you get a segfault)
20140223 03:57:36< mattsc> The same happens, IIRC, when you start a MP game from the CL with the -m option.
20140223 03:59:23< mattsc> And, potentially related (although I am really just guessing here): if you save a replay from a save that's been produced from another replay, that (second) replay does not work
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20140223 04:05:27< jamit> mattsc: I assume that removing the -t and -m options would not be considered an adequate fix? :)
20140223 04:05:53< mattsc> jamit: I'd have to find you and hunt you down if you did that.  ;)
20140223 04:06:43< mattsc> I know you were kidding, but just for reference for others:  I need the -t to start the MAI test scenarios, and the -m for batch testing of AIs.
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20140223 05:01:39< iceiceice> i have a great idea, why don't we rewrite all of wesnoth in haskell, and use the coq proof assistance to prove that there are no bugs :p
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20140223 05:55:30< shadowm> jamit: So, I need some help here. Am I supposed to consider commit 46b87250cd7a a feature, or a bug fix?
20140223 05:55:48< shadowm> Noting that there is such a thing as implementing a feature to solve a bug.
20140223 05:56:43< shadowm> I am afraid I need to word my announcement very carefully so that nobody later complains that 1.11.11 introduced a feature when I said "no more new features" when announcing 1.11.10.
20140223 05:58:30< jamit> shadowm: bug fix. No new functionality is being introduced. The pre-existing ability to remove fog from a single hex was made to not be ugly.
20140223 05:59:22< shadowm> And with a certain guarantee that this could not possibly introduce new bugs?
20140223 06:00:54< jamit> The code change will have no effect unless fog-all.png or void-all.png exists. (And the latter does not exist yet.)
20140223 06:01:47< shadowm> Hm, hm, I see.
20140223 06:08:26-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140223 06:12:59< jamit> shadowm: For reference, a before image: http://imagebin.org/295133  and after: http://imagebin.org/295134
20140223 06:13:12< shadowm_desktop> iceiceice: 18:46:46 <_8680_> “An idle side will not move or pass its turns” — what does this mean?
20140223 06:13:33< iceiceice> its to contrast with "idle_ai" which exists in the source
20140223 06:13:48< iceiceice> i agree without that context the sentence seems odd
20140223 06:14:04< shadowm_desktop> I guess 'pass its turn' could be replaced with 'end its turn'.
20140223 06:14:24< iceiceice> if you think that's more clear
20140223 06:14:55< shadowm_desktop> jamit: Okay, it sure seems like an improvement.
20140223 06:14:59< _8680_> I think it’s more clear.
20140223 06:16:07< _8680_> I didn’t know what you meant by “pass its turns”.
20140223 06:16:50< iceiceice> i guess as i read it, if you aren't moving your units, then ending your turn is the same as passing your turn
20140223 06:20:16< iceiceice> maybe its better: "An idle side will not move its units or end its turn." 
20140223 06:20:39< iceiceice> you could also say "An idle side is the same as a networked human player who is afk."
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20140223 06:21:58< irker170> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 4ae8e5fe3d4a / changelog: Changelog entry for 46b87250cd7a. http://git.io/JCXMMw
20140223 06:22:49< shadowm_desktop> Eh.
20140223 06:23:05< shadowm_desktop> > [*][b]Set side to idle[/b]: An idle side will not move, attack, or end its turn; the host will not gain vision of its units, and control will revert to a human side if the game is saved. If gameplay progresses to a side in idle mode, then to proceed with the game the host must assign control to a player by any of the usual means.
20140223 06:23:10< shadowm_desktop> That's what I had written.
20140223 06:23:50< shadowm_desktop> I really need to take a look at the blindfold replays implementation because what I'm reading sounds dangerously broad.
20140223 06:23:53< jamit> "An idle side will do nothing, not even end its turn."?
20140223 06:23:53< jamit> Or do you want people to think an idle side might recruit/recall?
20140223 06:23:58< jamit> :)
20140223 06:24:15< iceiceice> will not "perform any actions"?
20140223 06:25:08 * shadowm_desktop *twitch*
20140223 06:25:28< iceiceice> yeah, i still need to work on improving the blindfold replays thing, it basically works right now, but I think i might need to insert a "redraw" call just after the blindfold comes off
20140223 06:25:48< shadowm_desktop> Yeah okay, I'll use the simpler wording.
20140223 06:26:49< shadowm_desktop> Hm, no games in the dev server, as usual.
20140223 06:26:58< shadowm_desktop> No way to test the blindfolded thing. :(
20140223 06:27:15< iceiceice> just fire up 3 or 4 clients, that's what i did 
20140223 06:27:26< shadowm_desktop> Too lazy.
20140223 06:27:46< shadowm_desktop> So let me ask instead: is the whole screen black for the duration of the replay sync with that option enabled, or just the gamemap?
20140223 06:28:06< iceiceice> the whole screen
20140223 06:28:11< iceiceice> well
20140223 06:28:33< iceiceice> no the answer is the game map, but also i think maybe the chats are included
20140223 06:28:50< iceiceice> it would be nice to figure out how to let some of the chats through maybe
20140223 06:28:52< shadowm_desktop> Chat messages never appear until the replay sync is finished, so...
20140223 06:29:12< shadowm_desktop> Or maybe it does and I'm just confused about that.
20140223 06:29:23< iceiceice> i think they do
20140223 06:29:24< shadowm_desktop> Er, *they do.
20140223 06:29:42< iceiceice> i'll make a screen shot for you, one sec
20140223 06:29:57< shadowm_desktop> Well, I was more interested in the actual behavior than the appearance.
20140223 06:30:13< shadowm_desktop> I'll review the diffs later... one more thing to add to my post-feature-freeze to-do list.
20140223 06:34:41< iceiceice> ok, on review, it seems the whole screen is black,
20140223 06:35:01< iceiceice> which makes sense as the entire underyling display object gets an update lock during prestart basically
20140223 06:36:01< iceiceice> there were a few versions i tested, i'm having a hard time remembering whcih scenarios correspond to the current version / a previous version...
20140223 06:36:11< shadowm_desktop> That has the potential to break things like color cursors, resolution switching, etc.
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20140223 06:36:29< iceiceice> yes it probably does, i'm going to have to do a lot of work to get this really working properly
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20140223 06:37:20< iceiceice> i mean it mostly works, but i'm pretty sure there are some ideas to make it work better that i wouldn't have thought of as i dont know the display objects that well
20140223 06:37:51< shadowm_desktop> They are treacherous, disgusting creatures.
20140223 06:40:19< iceiceice> well i can be quite persuasive
20140223 06:44:56< iceiceice> yeah i guess ideally i could figure out how the update lock mechanism *works* and tranlsate it onto the game_display object...
20140223 06:45:09< iceiceice> probably that's what i will end up doing i suppose
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20140223 07:06:51< shadowm> Ivanovic, vultraz, _8680_ : The announcement draft is here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=40066
20140223 07:07:27< shadowm> (For Ivanovic: It changed a bit since the ED, it now has screenshots and another section.)
20140223 07:07:56< vultraz> Can I put my suggested corrections here
20140223 07:08:08< shadowm> No.
20140223 07:08:25< vultraz> Alright
20140223 07:08:30< shadowm> I mean, not in the post.
20140223 07:08:40< shadowm> In the channel? Sure.
20140223 07:08:46< vultraz> Alright
20140223 07:09:02< vultraz> First: exclamation mark for the first sentence
20140223 07:09:07< shadowm> Ooooo I forgot I was going to bring back the Known Issues section.
20140223 07:09:25< shadowm> vultraz: Hm, no.
20140223 07:10:02< vultraz> You don't need to mention in the second sentence that's it's beta 1 since you just said that in the title
20140223 07:10:17< vultraz> And you even say it's in prep for 1.12
20140223 07:11:49< shadowm> No.
20140223 07:11:52< shadowm> 1.12 != 1.12.0.
20140223 07:12:24< vultraz> *sigh* it's prep for 1.12.0*
20140223 07:12:37< shadowm> I don't intend to remove that part because it's intentional. The first is an artifact of the draft's history (which I had mostly written in advance a week ago), so I already erassed it.
20140223 07:13:24< vultraz> Intentional in what way?
20140223 07:13:53< shadowm> ViewersAreGoldfish
20140223 07:13:58< vultraz> I see
20140223 07:14:10< vultraz> Well at least parenthesize it
20140223 07:14:19< vultraz> Now, moving on
20140223 07:14:26< vultraz> should try out these -> should sample these
20140223 07:14:31< shadowm> No, the comma is good.
20140223 07:14:43< shadowm> No need for those disgusting round parentheses.
20140223 07:14:49< vultraz> " series, Wesnoth 1.11.10 a.k.a. 1.12 beta 1, marks"
20140223 07:14:52< vultraz> I see no comma
20140223 07:15:11< shadowm> It turns out you are the goldfish.
20140223 07:15:14< shadowm> It's you.
20140223 07:15:27< shadowm> Come on, I already said I already erased the _first_ part.
20140223 07:15:50< vultraz> Fine, good
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20140223 07:15:53< vultraz> even better
20140223 07:16:18< vultraz> " play with their " ->  play their 
20140223 07:18:17< shadowm> Actually, you know what, screw it. I'm not reintroducing the Known Issues section until 1.12.0.
20140223 07:18:43< vultraz> "here is a list with the most important changes" -> here is a list of the most important changes
20140223 07:18:48< shadowm> I feel it'd give the wrong impression in the meantime, and I still need to refactor the underlying code.
20140223 07:20:45< vultraz> Hmm...
20140223 07:20:49< vultraz> the WML error section
20140223 07:20:51< vultraz> Hm
20140223 07:21:30< vultraz> "The user interface used for displaying WML errors during the content loading and initialization phase" sounds awkward to me. Perhaps something along the lines of "The WML error report during the content loading and initialization phase"
20140223 07:21:41< shadowm> No.
20140223 07:22:57 * vultraz calls _8680_
20140223 07:23:15< shadowm> Sorry but no, that's actually deliberately implementationy-detaily.
20140223 07:23:31< shadowm> And the implementation detail in this case is that the error report and the UI are two separate entities.
20140223 07:24:52< _8680_> Hm?
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20140223 07:24:58< vultraz> "The WML error report screen"?
20140223 07:25:15< vultraz> I just find "user interface" badly used there.
20140223 07:25:16< shadowm> Why don't you, you know, continue with what you are doing?
20140223 07:25:21< vultraz> I don't know if _8680_ agrees
20140223 07:25:31< shadowm> I gave a lot of thought to my release notes blocks' wording.
20140223 07:27:34< _8680_> I did think “user interface” was possibly a bit too technical, but I don’t see a superior replacement, esp. that would preserve semantic content of which I am not fully aware.
20140223 07:27:40-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) | 0 bugs, 0 feature requests, 0 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140223 07:28:01< vultraz> I still think "you can find them on the Download page in the wiki." should be" can be found on the Download page"
20140223 07:28:03< vultraz> that's it
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20140223 07:28:17< vultraz> *Download page in the wiki*
20140223 07:28:19< shadowm> Woo! 0 bugs!
20140223 07:28:30< shadowm> Good job everyone!
20140223 07:28:53< _8680_> Is the bug count usually reset at each release?
20140223 07:29:22< shadowm> I think you know at this point that that's just wesbot failing to calculate the counts for whatever reason.
20140223 07:29:33< _8680_> I have no idea how wesbot works.
20140223 07:31:00< shadowm> wesbot: topic
20140223 07:31:13-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: releasing 1.11.10 (start of string+feature freeze) | 0 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140223 07:31:38< shadowm> Probably just having random issues when connecting to gna's http server.
20140223 07:32:20< _8680_> I’d support vultraz’s “packages are already available and can be found on the Download page in the wiki”, but if adding a comma is too much, I don’t see much hope for changing the words.
20140223 07:32:52< vultraz> I don't see why it's even an issue. who will notice the wording change?
20140223 07:33:11< shadowm> Why does it need to be changed?
20140223 07:33:46< vultraz> Because it *sounds* better and more natural
20140223 07:34:01< shadowm> What's not natural about saying "you" can find them somewhere?
20140223 07:34:12< shadowm> It's not like the announcement doesn't start addressing the reader directly.
20140223 07:39:43< vultraz> No one says "there's a box and you can find it in X"
20140223 07:40:27< _8680_> No, but in conversation, I wouldn’t expect to hear “there’s a box, to be found in X” either.
20140223 07:40:59< shadowm> Evidently, both Ivanovic and I actually say ""there is a box and you can find it in X".
20140223 07:41:16< _8680_> Or “there’s a box, which can be found in X”.
20140223 07:41:19< vultraz> My proposal is a middle groud
20140223 07:41:22< shadowm> Take this, for example: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33843
20140223 07:41:44< vultraz> Normal speech would be "There's a box in X"
20140223 07:41:47< _8680_> I’m using “conversation” in such a way as to exclude announcments.
20140223 07:42:30< vultraz> Well...
20140223 07:43:11< shadowm> Here is the greatest mystery of all: why did nobody complain about that after so many years? ;)
20140223 07:49:44< vultraz> shadowm: bc I never read the announcement carefully
20140223 07:49:56< vultraz> I looked at the pretty pictures and the new features list
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20140223 07:54:37< mordante> servus
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20140223 07:57:55< shadowm> Oh.
20140223 07:58:24< vultraz> Who's edb
20140223 07:58:33< shadowm> I also forgot I wanted to write a section on the bug workaround I'm about to post about in the tracker.
20140223 07:58:41< shadowm> In the announcement.
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20140223 08:16:54< EdB> vultraz: ?
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20140223 08:35:57< vultraz> nevrmind
20140223 08:37:05< jamit> One more bug fix for tonight.
20140223 08:37:31< shadowm> Wow, the splitting servers reset the topic again. How annoying.
20140223 08:37:33< irker170> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 3b69ba802bd6 / / (5 files in 2 dirs): Make the mouse handler respect linger mode instead of assuming false. http://git.io/TOOivA
20140223 08:37:35< irker170> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master a0f03607e80c / src/ (playmp_controller.cpp playsingle_controller.cpp): Remove vestiges of an earlier attempt to fix bug #21450. http://git.io/zanqlA
20140223 08:37:57-!- shadowm_desktop changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.11.10, announcing "soon" | string+feature freeze active on master | 0 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140223 08:38:25< shadowm> I'm tempted to set TOPICLOCK and let services fight with the servers over it.
20140223 08:38:46< shadowm> *KEEPTOPIC
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20140223 09:36:08< zookeeper> Espreon, shadowm, what was that about breaking scenarios?
20140223 09:36:42< shadowm> bumbadadabum wants to change a scenario id in EI, not sure which.
20140223 09:37:20< zookeeper> probably the one which i didn't
20140223 09:37:50< zookeeper> that is 08_Training_the_Ogres, as well as the filenames. maybe.
20140223 09:38:32< zookeeper> but then i believe that'd break savefiles so maybe it just ought to stay like that for all eternity in 1.12
20140223 09:38:53< zookeeper> if it was something else then i guess someone will tell me some day.
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20140223 10:47:41< AI0867> shadowm: space-containing filenames can't be directly included, but you can include the directory they're in
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20140223 13:27:20-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.11.10, announcing "soon" | string+feature freeze active on master | 218 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140223 13:41:18< lipkab> Ivanovic: Great.
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20140223 14:19:52< irker553> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master f7de93c68570 / changelog utils/valgrind_memcheck_suppressions.supp: Update valgrind suppression file. http://git.io/ujg_Ug
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20140223 14:59:18< mattsc> Crab_: hi.  Was my description of the CA bug in the PM sufficient?
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20140223 15:46:24< irker553> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth-old:master 8e21ab9fd94b / src/ (sdl_utils.cpp sdl_utils.hpp): Remove an anonymous namespace from a header. http://git.io/zGCXZQ
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20140223 18:17:19< irker553> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:1.10 adf0869fd27b / changelog src/construct_dialog.hpp src/filechooser.cpp: Fixes compilation with CLang 3.2 and libc++. http://git.io/YSTOqw
20140223 18:25:50< aquileia> Hmm... less traffic on the addon server would be nice, wouldn't it?
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20140223 18:34:29< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#1836 (1.10 - adf0869 : JaMiT): The build is still failing.
20140223 18:34:29< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/19451742
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20140223 18:40:57< jamit> travis' gcc compile of 1.10 failed: "Checking for Boost asio library... no" "scons: *** [wesnoth] Target disabled because its prerequisites are not met"
20140223 18:40:57< jamit> (It didn't even get to the code.)
20140223 18:40:57< jamit> Well, 1.10 is soon to be obsolete, so I guess travis will just keep failing that one.
20140223 18:42:42< mordante> jamit, why then commit your latest commit to 1.10?
20140223 18:44:10< jamit> mordante: It was small, could help someone compile, and it felt better than saying "no we're not going to fix it".
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20140223 18:45:23< jamit> Almost certainly smaller than whatever it would take to fix travis' prerequisites.
20140223 18:47:08< jamit> Unless someone really wants to I guess. I was just saying that travis-ci's "The build is still failing." seems acceptable to me.
20140223 18:47:54< mordante> it's not due to your commit?
20140223 18:50:19< jamit> It can't be. The build did not start compiling code.
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20140223 18:50:38< jamit> I removed three "const" qualifiers and added a changelog entry.
20140223 18:51:20< mordante> ok
20140223 18:56:37< mordante> I'm off bye
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20140223 19:12:07< aquileia> shadowm: Most of the png's on the addon server can be compressed further, it seems... including those in AtS... just a random idea, but how hard would it be to remedy this server side?
20140223 19:12:59< aquileia> I mean wesnoth-optipng already exists...
20140223 19:13:32< Espreon> Wouldn't changing things like that behind people's backs be kinda evil?
20140223 19:16:36< aquileia> The addons keep the same, it's just their size - so evil seems exagerated
20140223 19:16:37< zookeeper> doesn't sound like a good idea
20140223 19:16:53< lipkab> How much that compression would save?
20140223 19:17:20< aquileia> I tested some cases - on the png's themselves typically 20-40%
20140223 19:17:36< zookeeper> the fact that the add-on files would end up differing from those which the author uploaded sounds like it'd eventually cause a mess for someone
20140223 19:18:03< zookeeper> if it was optional functionality, like if it asked about it when uploading then that'd be great
20140223 19:19:14< lipkab> Hmm. I don't have stats, but IIRC all the heavy weights on the add-on server are fat because of music, not images.
20140223 19:19:37< lipkab> With To Lands Unknown as an exception.
20140223 19:20:05< lipkab> So I kind of doubt that it'd save too much bandwidth.
20140223 19:20:35< aquileia> E.g. I took Library of Kratemaqht - after half an hour I broke off, but it had saved 2,5MB at a rate of about 25%. Extrapolating on the full campaign, that'd be 15MB
20140223 19:20:46< aquileia> or a bit less
20140223 19:22:54< lipkab> Right, there're apparently more image-heavy add-ons with high download counts than I thought.
20140223 19:22:55< aquileia> Then perhaps just a dialog saying "This addon would probably benefit from lossless png compression - see to it yourself" :p
20140223 19:23:05< _8680_> Capable parties could contact the maintainers and offer optimization services
20140223 19:23:13< _8680_> s/$/./
20140223 19:23:42< aquileia> In fact I thought about doing this
20140223 19:24:23< _8680_> I like the idea of making those services available to UMC authors via the add-ons servers, but I doubt it would be implemented soon.
20140223 19:24:39< aquileia> But the problem is - this would count as an update, and all previous users who already had the uncompressed version would cause additional traffic
20140223 19:25:06< lipkab> That's a one-time cost.
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20140223 19:26:01< aquileia> And think about 7000 people downloading 8MB AtS again
20140223 19:26:04< _8680_> Although, there could be some security concerns — a fairly intensive operation that could be performed by anyone could easily be a denial-of-service–attack vector.
20140223 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: released 1.11.10, announcing "soon" | string+feature freeze active on master | 217 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140223 19:27:39< aquileia> or 2500 with the remaining 45 MB LoK
20140223 19:28:38< aquileia> Hmm... perhaps all these concerns can be solved at once if it isn't processed by the server?
20140223 19:29:11< _8680_> The service could be restricted to registered forum members. I believe the infrastructure for that is already in place, for authentication to the multiplayer game servers.
20140223 19:31:04< aquileia> Let's say the addon author would just be provided the means to do it himself. Then zookeepers concerns about different files between server and author would be solved, and DoS is no longer an issue
20140223 19:32:43< _8680_> Performing the optimization client-side might work, if we add wesnoth-optipng to the released game, but I believe that script uses external tools like optipng, so it would require people to have those tools installed already. And if they have those tools installed already, I’d expect that they already know how to use them.
20140223 19:33:03< aquileia> Three external tools in fact
20140223 19:35:07< aquileia> But it doesn't have to be wesnoth-optipng, optipng alone should do the trick.  Then the server only controls whether the actual content differs to ensure there is no problem
20140223 19:35:56< aquileia> No idea however how intensive  the check would be
20140223 19:37:38< _8680_> Still, if someone has optipng, I’d expect they wouldn’t need us to run it for them.
20140223 19:37:40< aquileia> But in any case, the first two campaigns already slipped through ;)
20140223 19:39:03< aquileia> Perhaps I'll just bury the idea then
20140223 19:41:00< aquileia> Hand-picking authors of heavy campaigns to contact just isn't as nice as a feature, but well, that's life
20140223 19:41:41< aquileia> shadowm: You are the first  member of this select company :p
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20140223 19:47:03< _8680_> AtS’s Git commit logs indicate that wesnoth-optipng was last run on it around 2014-01-24 23:37:52 -0300: <https://github.com/shikadilord/After_the_Storm/commit/76abcd18e952102afc891d10d1fd9fcb3bb4f334>.
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20140223 19:48:37< aquileia> Ok... I probably tested on an old version then (I just took my 10.6 download instead of 12.0)
20140223 19:48:48< _8680_> I don’t see any images having been added since then.
20140223 19:49:14< aquileia> And I didn't use wesnoth-optipng but the alternative recommended by zookeeper
20140223 19:50:08< _8680_> The alternative recommended by zookeeper?
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20140223 19:51:51< aquileia> I had my problems installing MSYS to have a UNIX shell on Windows, so he told me pnggauntlet uses optipng as well
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20140223 19:55:31< aquileia> I compressed some files by about 20%, others just stayed the same. If wesnoth-optipng had already been applied...
20140223 19:57:50< aquileia> Perhaps there is a optipng setting not used to it's full potential?
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20140223 20:00:19< aquileia> In any case, I have to go now - I'll read the logs
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20140223 20:08:23< _8680_> It seems wesnoth-optipng calls optipng with `-o5` rather than the maximum settings (`-o7 -zm1-9`), which may account for a difference in compression ratio.
20140223 20:10:51< _8680_> (`-zm1-9` listed for completeness, but I doubt it would make much difference, other than making the operation take more time.)
20140223 20:12:26< zookeeper> whatever you use, make sure it doesn't alter the color values one bit
20140223 20:12:55< zookeeper> there was that one disaster a long time ago where too aggressive optimization runs did
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20140223 20:15:29< _8680_> Isn’t optipng supposed to be lossless? Not that I’d rule out the possibility of a bug in optipng causing it to be lossy, but I wouldn’t consider that the fault of the settings.
20140223 20:17:33< _8680_> And it seems that there’s a mechanism in place to check that there wasn’t any loss?
20140223 20:24:12 * zookeeper doesn't know
20140223 20:24:21< zookeeper> 1.11.7 changelog: "* Allow numerical values for SideWML "controller" attribute." <- what does that mean?
20140223 20:25:54-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140223 20:28:26< iceiceice> zookeeper: just a guess,
20140223 20:28:36< iceiceice> i think side.controller is actually an enum?
20140223 20:28:57< iceiceice> at least in the C++
20140223 20:29:24< iceiceice> so maybe for some reason someone made it so WML may now set it to a corresponding integer value/
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20140223 20:39:16< mattsc> zookeeper: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SideWML
20140223 20:40:42< zookeeper> mattsc, oh, right. neat.
20140223 20:49:49< shadowm> aquileia: Very hard with campaignd, and I consider it to be a bad idea in principle.
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20140223 20:51:12< shadowm> _8680_: Yes, there is such a mechanism in place and it's actually needed.
20140223 20:52:52< shadowm> fabi_: Is this what you were talking about? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40067
20140223 20:57:18< shadowm> Ivanovic: When are we announcing 1.11.10?
20140223 20:57:47< Ivanovic> once someone updates the downloads page
20140223 21:00:19< EliDupree> Hmm... ~R(1)~BG(0,0,0) is working in a case where ~BG(0,0,0) alone does not
20140223 21:04:05< fabi_> shadowm: Yes, for example.
20140223 21:07:42< shadowm> Ivanovic: Well, I'll update that and announce later then, and figure out the deal with wesnothd later during the week when Soliton is around.
20140223 21:08:04< shadowm> Which is a thing that can be done since players normally connect to the redirector on 15000 first.
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20140223 21:42:43-!- shadowm changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on master | 217 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140223 21:44:20< iceiceice> shadowm: is it still possible that i might add a string to the translation pool?
20140223 21:44:30< iceiceice> i think i would like to create a server message, something like "player takes off their blindfold"
20140223 21:44:34< shadowm> Ask Ivanovic.
20140223 21:45:00< iceiceice> Ivanovic: ^
20140223 21:45:31< iceiceice> its not strictly necessary but i think it would greatly improve the feature
20140223 21:48:30< shadowm> If it's not strictly necessary then it sounds like it should go into 1.13.0-dev.
20140223 21:49:27< shadowm> You see, when one starts making exceptions, suddenly every other developer wants an exception to be made for their own super-cool thing that absolutely-really-necessarily must go into the stable release.
20140223 21:49:31< iceiceice> yeah i see
20140223 21:49:42< iceiceice> i think i can probably use a string i already have for this
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20140223 21:52:56< aquileia> shadowm , _8680_ : I thought a bit about it. Altered proposal exploiting the current infrastructure : If an addon seems a model candidate for png optimisation, make it a 'dependency' to have an optimisation tool installed.
20140223 21:52:59< aquileia> How? It's not that hard to have an addon on the server which in fact contains the tool.
20140223 21:53:26< aquileia> The resource category comes in handy for this
20140223 21:54:00< aquileia> And in advance - I only have about half an hour, sorry
20140223 21:54:16< aquileia> You can also reply with a simple no
20140223 21:54:53< aquileia> This could e.g. be an easy coding task, I guess
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20140223 21:55:25< irker169> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth-old:master df002cdfa1cd / po/wesnoth-ai/it.po: Hand-merge PR #74 http://git.io/xJVjdg
20140223 21:55:47< shadowm> I'm not sure how that is supposed to help people who don't know anythig about optimization?
20140223 21:57:04< shadowm> Also, traffic to the add-ons server isn't that huge at the moment and I don't foresee any problems in the near future. This would only possibly help people on e.g. mobile broadband like me, and to a very negligible degree save for some corner cases.
20140223 21:57:10< aquileia> There is an addon description field - a few sentences should be enough to explain that running this tool on their addon folder improves its size
20140223 21:57:40< shadowm> But making it a dependency is no way helps the author. How often do authors download their own add-ons?
20140223 21:58:00< aquileia> Not for downloading - for uploading
20140223 21:58:15< shadowm> There is no such a thing as an upload-time dependency in campaignd.
20140223 21:58:55< shadowm> And if it existed, it'd have different semantics than what you seem to suggest.
20140223 22:00:33< aquileia> The term 'dependency' was just to allude to the fact that there is no need for new strings
20140223 22:02:02< aquileia> But if implementing it is hard - it was just a random idea
20140223 22:03:20< aquileia> I already said I could write some hand-picked addon authors about the option to reduce up- and download time
20140223 22:04:47< aquileia> The reason the discussion continued was that I began with you, not realizing the -o5 / -o7 issue
20140223 22:05:40-!- timotei_ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
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20140223 22:11:37< aquileia> Just out of interest, could someone change -o5 to -o7 in line 91 of wesnoth-optipng and try on skeletal-dragon.png ? At least with pnggauntlet, it compresses another 29%
20140223 22:12:14< zookeeper> shadowm, i take it that the 1.11 add-on server will remain the default before 1.12 RC's?
20140223 22:13:19-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140223 22:14:17< AI0867> iceiceice: is there a bug for http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40068 ?
20140223 22:14:51< iceiceice> i dont think there is a bug report but we discussed in irc 
20140223 22:15:01< iceiceice> yesterday even i think
20140223 22:16:27-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140223 22:17:43< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/JEzBHjbz
20140223 22:21:16< AI0867> file a bug anyway, these things can get lost (it may be on fabi_'s TODO list, but the rest of us may forget about it)
20140223 22:26:12< zookeeper> durr. anyone know if it's possible (in WML/lua) to retrieve a list of all recruits of the currently player era?
20140223 22:26:22< zookeeper> s/player/played
20140223 22:26:38< zookeeper> i didn't see anything of the sort in LuaWML, but...
20140223 22:26:39< shadowm> zookeeper: 1.11.10 and later use the 1.12 add-ons server, not the 1.11 add-ons server.
20140223 22:28:17< zookeeper> shadowm, riiight. allow me a moment to repeatedly facepalm; it seems that i accidentally downloaded and tested 1.11.9, myself :p
20140223 22:33:27< iceiceice> zookeeper: it should be documented under wesnoth.game_config, if its not then that means i messed up
20140223 22:34:05< irker169> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master ed3446a3e71f / src/ (map_label.cpp map_label.hpp): Simplify map_labels::set_label() by factoring out some find()s. http://git.io/pcHiWg
20140223 22:34:07< irker169> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master 90501cf87254 / src/map_label.cpp: Some cleanup of map_labels::set_label. http://git.io/W7DWKg
20140223 22:34:09< irker169> wesnoth: JaMiT wesnoth-old:master bd09e01992e3 / changelog players_changelog src/map_label.cpp src/map_label.hpp: Clean up the logic that decides when labels are created and shown. http://git.io/Un7pqg
20140223 22:34:41< zookeeper> iceiceice, yeah, looks like it is
20140223 22:34:42< zookeeper> cool, thanks
20140223 22:35:11< zookeeper> so i guess it means i can turn the PYR era into a modification-only add-on O.o
20140223 22:35:18< iceiceice> :)
20140223 22:36:09< iceiceice> yeah i think i will make no mirror era like that also
20140223 22:36:14< iceiceice> and some other things
20140223 22:36:43< iceiceice> i also did implement that [endlevel] carryover wml thing we talked about also,
20140223 22:38:13< iceiceice> btw, _8680_, thank you for the comment about "scons --cxxtools=clang++", this seriously is reducing my daily total compile time by like an hour or two
20140223 22:38:50-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f049209148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140223 22:41:33< _8680_> I pointed you to a Clang/GCC performance comparison; AI0867 said how to make SCons use Clang.
20140223 22:43:56< iceiceice> oh 
20140223 22:44:02< iceiceice> well anyways thanks to both of you
20140223 22:50:55< iceiceice> jamit: about the team label clears non-team label thing
20140223 22:51:09< iceiceice> i looked at that and tried to fiugre out why it is the way it is, it looks like its been that way for like 5+ years
20140223 22:51:45< iceiceice> do you think maybe it should be a preference whether team label clears non-team label?
20140223 22:51:53< iceiceice> i haven't compiled the proposed change to see how it looks
20140223 22:52:30< iceiceice> idk it seems like it might look bad to display them on top of eachother, that's the only reason i can think of why it is coded the way it is right now
20140223 22:57:15< jamit> iceiceice: It would look bad to display them on top of each other, but that is taken care of elsewhere.
20140223 22:57:51< iceiceice> ok, cool
20140223 22:57:56< jamit> Admittedly, that "elsewhere" might have developed within the past five years, but still, there is no need to clear the non-team label at this point.
20140223 23:01:53< iceiceice> AI0867: about "is there a bug report for"... i might post on forum again and ask the user to file a bug report?
20140223 23:06:12< mattsc> iceiceice: either that or file it yourself.  But I think it's a good idea to get the users involved in these kinds of things.  (Plus, it supports my own laziness, so it's what I usually do.)
20140223 23:06:31< iceiceice> it looks like jamit beat me to it sort of :)
20140223 23:07:11< iceiceice> man this is pretty annoying, it looks like because the way the engine is set up, where display is sort of a "global" resource, anytime i change display.hpp i have to recompile everything 
20140223 23:17:46< aquileia> wesnoth-optipng runs on any Unix-like system including OS X, right?
20140223 23:18:20< aquileia> I don't want to write something wrong about it
20140223 23:18:21< shadowm> iceiceice: Okay, I've entered an AI vs. AI game blindfolded in the trunk server.
20140223 23:18:31< shadowm> And now my client's screen is dark forever.
20140223 23:18:56< iceiceice> yes, if no one in the game unblind folds you then it is never safe to see anything
20140223 23:18:57-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140223 23:19:01-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140223 23:19:06< shadowm> Well, unless I bring up the quit dialog with Ctrl+Q.
20140223 23:19:07< iceiceice> because you dont know yet which side you will be on
20140223 23:19:11< shadowm> Then it gets all glitchy.
20140223 23:19:14< iceiceice> actually i'm somewhat surprised if that fixes it
20140223 23:19:15< iceiceice> yeah
20140223 23:19:25< iceiceice> so in my patch which i am working on now it will be fixed,
20140223 23:19:40< iceiceice> in the new version, the whole thing will apply to display rather than video
20140223 23:19:46< iceiceice> so only the game map should be dark
20140223 23:19:46< shadowm> I can also click on the menus even though they aren't drawn.
20140223 23:19:57< iceiceice> yeah i cant fix that yet
20140223 23:19:58< shadowm> The whole situation is rather surreal from Generic Joe's PoV.
20140223 23:20:06< iceiceice> i'm sure :)
20140223 23:20:23< iceiceice> in the most common use case it works fine but it is easy to make bad things happen right now
20140223 23:20:33< shadowm> Oh, and clicking on the minimap results in SIGFPE.
20140223 23:20:39< iceiceice> oof
20140223 23:20:52< iceiceice> i'm not sure why that would be but thanks for telling me
20140223 23:21:06< iceiceice> so the thing i am working on now is that it is implemented by a locker object, which will unblindfold you when it is destroyed
20140223 23:21:16< shadowm> I can get you a backtrace as soon as I build an -O0 build
20140223 23:21:18< iceiceice> and is owned by the playmp controoller 
20140223 23:21:24< iceiceice> so if you quit the game you should get unblindfolded
20140223 23:21:29< iceiceice> ok
20140223 23:21:38< zookeeper> so what is the intended use of the blindfold thing?
20140223 23:21:52< iceiceice> the idea is to allow you to rejoin a game and take control
20140223 23:21:53< iceiceice> if you disconnect
20140223 23:21:57< iceiceice> without getting vision fo the other sides
20140223 23:22:36 * shadowm can't wait to see who will win this intense match!
20140223 23:22:49< zookeeper> okay, but you can just as well _not_ use it, and the other players have no way of knowing whether you did or not?
20140223 23:24:10< iceiceice> i'm hoping to implement some kind of unique message when you take off the blindfold
20140223 23:24:20< iceiceice> right now its only known by your client
20140223 23:24:41< iceiceice> if you want to do something more rigorous might have to wait
20140223 23:25:14< shadowm> Well, I can type chat messages while blindfolded it seems, even if I can't see them myself.
20140223 23:25:30< iceiceice> yeah that doesn't surprise me either
20140223 23:25:31< zookeeper> all right
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20140223 23:25:58< shadowm> And bringing up a GUI2 dialog (such as the Quit prompt) and cancelling it allows the chat messages to be drawn if only for a moment.
20140223 23:26:24< iceiceice> so i'm going to change how it works fundamentally with a commit to happen soon
20140223 23:26:33< iceiceice> where it will apply to the disply object rather than the video object,
20140223 23:26:36< shadowm> And here's the crash: http://pastebin.com/x9XTHJL4
20140223 23:26:44< iceiceice> i think i may only try to disable "draw_hex" function
20140223 23:26:48< iceiceice> or something like this
20140223 23:27:06< shadowm> (gdb) p minimap_location_.w
20140223 23:27:06< shadowm> $1 = 0
20140223 23:27:16-!- Jetrel [~Jetrel@c-75-73-180-126.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140223 23:27:46< shadowm> iceiceice: That sounds like it may turn out to be harder than it sounds when you take units into account.
20140223 23:28:10< shadowm> Wouldn't it be simpler to force whole-map shroud behavior instead?
20140223 23:28:19< iceiceice> perhaps
20140223 23:28:35< iceiceice> that would look better also
20140223 23:28:41< shadowm> At the display part, not the WML (which may rely on shroud calculations, etc.)
20140223 23:28:45< iceiceice> i'm still researching the display object
20140223 23:28:55< shadowm> Aaand, undead win over drakes.
20140223 23:29:34< shadowm> Hm.
20140223 23:29:43< shadowm> Turn 20.
20140223 23:30:11< shadowm> I joined blindfolded at turn 20 as an observer and got to hear all the ToD transition sounds play all simultaneously.
20140223 23:30:49< shadowm> I still have the game on the trunk server if you want to have a look.
20140223 23:31:20-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140223 23:31:56< shadowm> And here I see the random missing ellipses and bars bug again. Sigh.
20140223 23:32:10< iceiceice> yeah... i think that can be fixed if i insert a redraw call
20140223 23:32:25< shadowm> No, that's independent of the blindfold feature.
20140223 23:32:37< iceiceice> hmm ok
20140223 23:32:38< shadowm> https://gna.org/bugs/?21647
20140223 23:32:42< iceiceice> i think i might insert a redraw anyways
20140223 23:33:00< shadowm> Since MP games work like replays, I guess that's why I triggered it.
20140223 23:33:40< shadowm> Each unit goes back to normal once selected, that's interesting.
20140223 23:34:37< iceiceice> yeah thats why i think its my fault
20140223 23:34:53< shadowm> But the bug predates blindfold.
20140223 23:39:40< iceiceice> idk even if it looks like the other bug, i feel like i could easily be causing something like that by disabling the update locker without then redrawing
20140223 23:40:13-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Crab_]
20140223 23:41:07< iceiceice> heres my current blindfold patch branch: https://github.com/cbeck88/wesnoth-old/compare/blindfold_ii
20140223 23:41:26< iceiceice> trying to implement it with shroud this time, we'll see how it looks...
20140223 23:43:37-!- aquileia [5fd017e3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.208.23.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140223 23:48:52-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140223 23:55:11< iceiceice> hmm...
20140223 23:58:25< shadowm> I won my first match as Khalifate against undead!
20140223 23:58:49< shadowm> ... playing against an AI.
20140223 23:59:09< mattsc> I wonder how Fred would play the Khalifate ...  :P
20140223 23:59:31< iceiceice> you mean how it would play vs the khalifate?
20140223 23:59:43< mattsc> Either way
20140223 23:59:46< iceiceice> i dont see that khalifate are stronger defensively than say knalgan
--- Log closed Mon Feb 24 00:00:10 2014