--- Log opened Thu Feb 27 00:00:00 2014
--- Day changed Thu Feb 27 2014
20140227 00:00:00< anonymissimus> hm then perhaps you have some special version
20140227 00:02:18< aquileia> Ort: C:\Program Files (x86)
20140227 00:02:47< aquileia> But if it's just me, then one problem less I guess
20140227 00:04:20< aquileia> Back to easy coding: "Note at the moment Mordante is working on a new GUI system, these changes will probably affect the way these items need to be implemented."
20140227 00:04:32< aquileia> Written in 2008
20140227 00:04:41< aquileia> That's GUI2, isn't it?
20140227 00:10:12< aquileia> Oh, it's even specified in the next paragraph. Time to move those proposals I think
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20140227 00:10:31< irker609> wesnoth: shikadilord wesnoth-old: ce437137886e tagged as 1.11.10-retag
20140227 00:10:49< shadowm> Ivanovic: git tag -d 1.11.10  (delete) if you still have the tag you made with git tag -af, then pull again.
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20140227 00:12:38< aquileia> shadowm: Is the lobby GUI or GUI2?
20140227 00:12:57< shadowm> GUI1. The GUI2 lobby is guarded behind the "experimental lobby" option in Advanced Preferences.
20140227 00:13:34< aquileia> But the easy coding proposals for the old lobby are rather obsolete then, I guess?
20140227 00:14:32< shadowm> I thought someone removed all obsolete tasks from that page not too long ago. I haven't really seen the page in years.
20140227 00:15:29< aquileia> That was a question, I just don't know whether you want to invest time in the old one
20140227 00:16:04< shadowm> The old lobby has seen various changes throughout 1.11.x, so...
20140227 00:16:14< aquileia> leave it in?
20140227 00:16:32< shadowm> Maybe? Depends on whether the tasks in question have been done already or not.
20140227 00:16:59< aquileia> "make games sortable in the lobby"
20140227 00:17:56< aquileia> I have no idea of the MP infrastructure, so...
20140227 00:19:16< aquileia> and I can't try without 1.11.10
20140227 00:20:41< aquileia> In any case i'll delete the 'current developement of GUI2'
20140227 00:25:43< aquileia> shadowm: 'hourglass item from the statusbar' GUI 1 / 2 ?
20140227 00:26:06< aquileia> Or are there easy criteria to find out myself?
20140227 00:26:45< shadowm> I wouldn't call the theme UI either GUI1 or GUI2, although it does use GUI1 widgets and no components from GUI2
20140227 00:27:43< aquileia> Ok
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20140227 00:37:18< shadowm> EVERYONE: I have renamed the 'wesnoth-old' repository to 'wesnoth'. You will get notices about that as you pull and push refs. The contents are absolutely the same, so you may keep using the old URLs, which will be redirected as needed. However, you really should just update your repository configuration immediately; see my message to the developers mailing list.
20140227 00:40:21< matthiaskrgr> mmh how did that work again? remove the old origin and add a new one?
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20140227 00:43:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth-old#1864 (1.11.10-retag - ce43713 : Nils Kneuper): The build passed.
20140227 00:43:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth-old/builds/19695006
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20140227 01:28:06< shadowm> matthiaskrgr: git remote set-url origin <url>
20140227 01:28:17< shadowm> The instructions are in the email, though.
20140227 01:37:27< iceiceice> hi
20140227 01:37:36< iceiceice> i tried to write a "git for wesnoth crash course" on the wiki:
20140227 01:37:38< iceiceice> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Git_for_Wesnoth_Crash_Course
20140227 01:38:02< iceiceice> thoughts feedback criticism and revisions are welcome
20140227 01:38:20< sachith500> that's a good idea :D
20140227 01:38:28< iceiceice> shadowm: i just saw about wesnoth-old -> wesnoth ... will update the wiki =D
20140227 01:38:31< sachith500> will be useful for gsoc students in particular ;)
20140227 01:39:07< iceiceice> we'll see if the powers that be approve or want to change how it works.. its only informed really by my experience with this
20140227 01:39:28< shadowm> iceiceice: What needs to be updated?
20140227 01:40:46< iceiceice> i think i use the phrase "wesnoth-old" in a few places
20140227 01:41:45< shadowm> I don't have time to read the whole thing atm, but the first issue I see is that it's written in the first person without saying who that person is.
20140227 01:42:24< shadowm> It could also make use of bold and italics.
20140227 01:42:46< shadowm> Also wiki links.
20140227 01:43:26< shadowm> And <code> for inline code/commands.
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20140227 01:52:40< happygrue> only had time for a skim for now but looks like a great writeup iceiceice
20140227 01:53:23< happygrue> also good to have the commit message details there, though mentioning the players changelog with the changelog would make sense too
20140227 01:53:35< iceiceice> shadowm: whats the most appropriate way for me to identify myself in a wiki guide like that?
20140227 01:53:48< iceiceice> just say my name in the first paragraph, or signature at the end/
20140227 01:54:11< iceiceice> i guess i anticipate that others will edit it so i wont be the sole author... hadn't really thought about how that would actually work out
20140227 01:54:29< iceiceice> happygrue: yeah i guess we could make a note about that as well
20140227 01:54:44< happygrue> I'll read it over again tomorrow, going to be busy shortly here
20140227 01:57:46< shadowm> iceiceice: No idea, I don't like software documentation written in the first person.
20140227 01:58:24< shadowm> Again, that's my personal opinion, not an authority, etc. It seems people tend to mistake everything I say as official as of late.
20140227 01:58:43< happygrue> It's fine if you put your handle in it I think, just throw "by iceiceice" at the end of the title.
20140227 01:59:00< happygrue> or someone will come by and edit out the first person stuff if you leave it ;)
20140227 01:59:17< iceiceice> so there is a point at the end where i describe my personal practices
20140227 01:59:33< iceiceice> so maybe i'll edit out the first person stuff, and for those lines mark it as "iceiceice: ..."
20140227 02:00:02< iceiceice> idk let me reread and think about it
20140227 02:00:10< happygrue> if you do a lot of work on the wiki, just do it how you like it and stuff will get edited over time.  :D
20140227 02:00:17< happygrue> don't worry about it too much I'd say
20140227 02:00:42< sachith500> by the way iceiceice, is there a bit about adding your name and details to the necessary file with the first commit? I don't know if it's relevant there, just throwing it out there :)
20140227 02:01:01< happygrue> if it were me, I'd make some joke about how this guide will have you saying "I see, I see, I see" by the end of it.  By iceiceice.
20140227 02:01:08< happygrue> but that's because I have no shame.  :D
20140227 02:01:29< sachith500> haha
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20140227 02:01:43< happygrue> off for a bit
20140227 02:01:49< sachith500> see you :)
20140227 02:02:33< iceiceice> haha 
20140227 02:02:53< iceiceice> sachitch500: good point, maybe should add something like that
20140227 02:03:08< iceiceice> idk i think i'm done with it for the time being, maybe will tweak some more later
20140227 02:03:27< sachith500> cool :D
20140227 02:03:37< sachith500> i have my own page now, btw
20140227 02:03:40< sachith500> on wiki ;)
20140227 02:04:26< sachith500> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/GSoC_sachith500_Proposal
20140227 02:04:27< sachith500> :D
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20140227 02:28:15< iceiceice> sachitch500: cool :)
20140227 02:29:09< sachith500> I'm excited for what this means for the game :D
20140227 02:29:26< sachith500> I was thinking of going for the AI project
20140227 02:29:39< sachith500> but this would be more useful for multiplayer imho
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20140227 02:43:08< Aishiko_laptop> sachith500, will that be able to replay the archives and declare winners for those games?
20140227 02:43:35< sachith500> declare winners yeah
20140227 02:43:46 * Aishiko_laptop doesn't doo mp but those that do might like to have the stats for bragging rights
20140227 02:43:50< sachith500> will be providing as much stats as possible
20140227 02:43:56< sachith500> exactly
20140227 02:43:59< sachith500> I was thinking about that too
20140227 02:44:14< sachith500> but wouldn't that be kinda like having an official ladder
20140227 02:44:15< sachith500> :\
20140227 02:45:35< sachith500> It would be cool to have :D
20140227 02:49:31< Aishiko_laptop> maybe but it could also limit the data to the public just the number of wins, so people could say have 1000 wins but no one would know of the 9000000 losses ;P or limit to win/loss ratio with no raw numbers so player A could have a 80% win ratio and B could have a 99%
20140227 02:50:15< sachith500> good idea :D
20140227 02:50:28< sachith500> I hadn't thought of that
20140227 02:50:37< sachith500> I think this is long overdue :D
20140227 02:50:57< sachith500> content creators should get more feedback for their stuff
20140227 02:52:37< Aishiko_laptop> perhaps have a rating of the maps?
20140227 02:54:11< sachith500> hmm rating in what sense?
20140227 02:54:17< sachith500> generate the standard deviation?
20140227 02:54:23< Aishiko_laptop> like Map 20 has a rating of 4.73 stars out of 5 (or 10) from Y players
20140227 02:54:23< sachith500> for various races?
20140227 02:54:29< sachith500> oh yeah
20140227 02:54:38< sachith500> that could work too
20140227 02:56:46< Aishiko_laptop> so a low rating of 1.2 with 5 ratings  could be given a lower consideration ot the rating then say one with 150000 players rating it that, yeah I'm going to extremes here in my examples
20140227 02:57:39< sachith500> :D
20140227 02:57:58< sachith500> when you talk about consideration what do you mean?
20140227 02:59:02< Aishiko_laptop> I'm not sure its a worth consideration at all but I am I'm throwing out some ideas, and by consideration, I mean the players could see that low rating and low # of people rating and go, its still worth a shot versus a low rating with lots of players rating that.
20140227 02:59:38< sachith500> oh right
20140227 02:59:43< sachith500> hmm
20140227 03:00:00< Aishiko_laptop> you know for the player to decide how much weight to give the rating of the map, and make the rating optional I would think, it would be Annoying to have to rate a map if you didn't want to
20140227 03:00:01< sachith500> yeah that's true
20140227 03:00:25< sachith500> yes
20140227 03:00:35< sachith500> that would be part of the addons server i would think
20140227 03:01:43< sachith500> to rate them, i mean
20140227 03:02:37< Aishiko_laptop> it could conseveably be used to help decide what community created content to include in the MainLine
20140227 03:03:38< sachith500> oh right
20140227 03:05:54< Aishiko_laptop> just something to think about and now...... you know the rest of the story.
20140227 03:07:01< sachith500> yeah :D
20140227 03:07:08< sachith500> the more input the better
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20140227 03:37:29< iceiceice> ok i'm out for now, bb all :)
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20140227 05:36:58< janebot_> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • git for wesnoth crash course by iceiceice [ 02-27-2014 05:34 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p567461 ]
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20140227 06:30:49< janebot_> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: git for wesnoth crash course by vultraz [ 02-27-2014 06:29 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p567462 ]
20140227 06:47:38< AI0867> 00:10 < mattsc> Umm, who messed with spaces not being accepted in filenames??? <-- I did, because it was mostly broken already, and it interfered with various tools
20140227 06:50:18< shadowm> vultraz: You mean 'wary', not 'weary'.
20140227 06:50:35< shadowm> AI0867: Yeah, but see how that breaks other things.
20140227 06:52:36< shadowm> AI0867: Here is a more accessible example: http://pastebin.com/zmzYjkne
20140227 06:53:50< shadowm> By the way, I wouldn't encourage the superfluous pull request workflow either.
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20140227 06:58:06< vultraz> shadowm: oops, thanks for pointing that out
20140227 06:58:25< _8680_> shadowm: Why not?
20140227 06:58:41< shadowm> Because it's superfluous and makes it harder to keep track of new contributors.
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20140227 07:02:18< AI0867> yeah, so we should use this for "internal paths" only
20140227 07:02:32< AI0867> as in, the stuff you can access using includes
20140227 07:03:36< janebot_> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: git for wesnoth crash course by iceiceice [ 02-27-2014 07:01 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p567466 ]
20140227 07:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on master | 215 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140227 08:31:21< irker006> wesnoth: anatoly techtonik wesnoth:master 4b2ea950defe / SConstruct: SConstruct: small typo http://git.io/2A5_kA
20140227 08:31:23< irker006> wesnoth: lipk wesnoth:master 635ecb3e58f7 / SConstruct: Merge pull request #112 from techtonik/patch-1 http://git.io/v3aEPg
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20140227 11:45:00< aquileia> elias: are you the one developing an experimental GUI2 lobby?
20140227 11:46:10< aquileia> I'd like to add a little information to the easy coding task on the old lobby
20140227 11:46:25< aquileia> and the first thing would be 'ask ... wheth
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20140227 11:46:38< aquileia> whether it's still relevant'
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20140227 11:52:04< aquileia> looking at the code history it seems mordante did a lot of work on it, so I'll just add him then
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20140227 11:57:01< aquileia> Port the random map generator dialog to GUI2  <--  I guess the dialog will be subject to severe changes to include pyrophorous' YAMG. Still easy coding? I doubt it...
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20140227 12:31:43< elias> aquileia: haha, no... what gave you that idea?
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20140227 13:26:31< aquileia> elias: I'm new to the project, and in my mind I still have only one mixed memory for the two server interfaces (campaignd and lobby) ...
20140227 13:28:25< aquileia> While I played for years my first pull request was two weeks ago, so the infrastructure is still a bit blurry
20140227 13:30:45< aquileia> replace that by 'very blurry' in fact
20140227 13:36:14< elias> ah, yes, I sort of have something to do with campaignd since I maintain a python script to talk to it I guess :)
20140227 13:36:56< elias> but I'm very much not a C++ person
20140227 13:38:49< aquileia> I see... so I was completely wrong. There's a lot I have to learn before really being useful.
20140227 13:39:48< aquileia> And differentiating the two server infrastructures should be on my list
20140227 13:45:36< aquileia> fabi__, vultraz: After showing how little I know of whom to ask, I hope this time I'm right: You spoke about integrating YAMG a long time ago?
20140227 13:46:36< vultraz> aquileia: fabi__ was the one who proposed it. I believe he committed the code for it to the repo, but a dialog and proper integration with the editor were never begun
20140227 13:47:19< aquileia> Because on EasyCoding there is a task 'Port the random map generator dialog to GUI2', and with YAMG this task probably should be updated
20140227 13:48:12< aquileia> Though I guess it means it's 'not so easy coding' with that additional part
20140227 13:49:55< vultraz> I tried YMAG once, and I have to say the results are impressive. Not perfect, but definitely impressive, and the results provide a solid framework for creating a better map.
20140227 13:50:10< vultraz> However it just has so many.damn.magic.NUMBERS >_>
20140227 13:50:53< aquileia> Isn't there already a WML-like interface?
20140227 13:51:21< aquileia> It takes a WML block and creates a map, I thought
20140227 13:51:37< aquileia> pseudo WML at least
20140227 13:52:22< aquileia> so the dialog part should be mostly GUI2
20140227 13:52:34< vultraz> As a standalone app you just put magic numbers in a config file and ran it
20140227 13:53:05< vultraz> With this you'd need to make a GUI2 dialog do that
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20140227 13:55:21< aquileia> That confirms my feeling it's no longer EasyCoding
20140227 13:56:44< aquileia> Perhaps a smaller slice of the work would still qualify? I mean as soon as the dialog is there, adding more options step by step seems doable
20140227 13:58:03< vultraz> IIRC (don't take my word for it) there was still some C code in it that had to be updated to C++
20140227 13:58:11< vultraz> But I'm really not sure
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20140227 13:58:42< aquileia> Who would know (other than mordante who isn't here right now) ?
20140227 13:59:59< aquileia> I'm trying to help a bit with an administrative task, and 'd prefer not to plunge into C++ to find out about the infrastructure
20140227 14:02:22< aquileia> but it seems I have to wait for him then
20140227 14:02:46< vultraz> Why mordante?
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20140227 14:03:19< aquileia> Isn't he responsible for all GUI --> GUI2 conversion?
20140227 14:03:25< vultraz> No
20140227 14:03:46< vultraz> He designed GUI2 (is still working on it), but other people know how to and do work with it
20140227 14:04:18 * lipkab even fixed a GUI2 bug once!
20140227 14:04:25< vultraz> What he's responsible for is GUI2 issues, since no one else really understands how he designed the code
20140227 14:04:49< vultraz> If we had someone new come in with the skills to work with it, that'd be great
20140227 14:04:57< vultraz> Since it's been "in development" since *2008*
20140227 14:06:14< lipkab> "but other people know how to and do work with it" vs "If we had someone new come in with the skills to work with it, that'd be great"
20140227 14:06:17< lipkab> :P
20140227 14:06:35< vultraz> lipkab: we work with it, doesn't mean we know how it works :P
20140227 14:06:42< happygrue> aquileia: in general, it's best to just ask a question because often other people can answer.  You can still ping mordante later if no one else can, but just letting it sit here for a bit often does get answers.
20140227 14:07:34< happygrue> oops
20140227 14:07:39 * happygrue smacks himself with the log
20140227 14:08:26< Spoffy> YAY LOGS
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20140227 14:08:59< vultraz> Let us hail the Helix Logssil
20140227 14:09:03 * aquileia had already forgoten he had asked before and wouldn't have noticed
20140227 14:10:17< sachith500> lol
20140227 14:10:28< sachith500> twitch plays pokemon reference? :P
20140227 14:10:33< vultraz> Yes
20140227 14:10:39< sachith500> nice :p
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20140227 14:12:56< aquileia> Perhaps a first step would be  to make a concept (picture) what sliders, ... the dialog needs. But that's not EasyCoding for sure.
20140227 14:14:16< aquileia> e.g. how should altmiddle, altNW, altNE, altSE, altSW be handled
20140227 14:14:54< aquileia> My suggestion: a field of 9 radio buttons and one slider
20140227 14:16:29< aquileia> the user selects which one he wants to use (N, E, S, W would be a combination of two others) and then enter how much it should raise/lower the side
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20140227 14:25:27< zookeeper> aquileia, what dialog and what functionality are you even talking about?
20140227 14:26:58< aquileia> YAMG is a new random map creator with dozens of parameters to play with, and without a proper dialog it's not really useful to most prople
20140227 14:27:35< aquileia> It's in the repo but the interface to the map editor completely misses
20140227 14:28:08< aquileia> The reason I ask is something completely different however:
20140227 14:28:47< zookeeper> well i don't see what cardinal directions have to do with that :x or raising/lowering sides, whatever that means
20140227 14:28:47< aquileia> The EasyCoing task 'Port the random map generator dialog to GUI2' was written long before its existence an haas to be updated
20140227 14:29:38< aquileia> you can say: I want a lake in the west
20140227 14:30:11< aquileia> Then you lower altNW and alt SW and voila
20140227 14:30:35< zookeeper> huh.
20140227 14:30:50< aquileia> but it's much more intuitive if you can do it without writing code
20140227 14:32:24< aquileia> And something esle you need is a random seed. If you don't enter one, you can't vary the map further
20140227 14:33:10< aquileia> So you need a box where you see the current seed in use
20140227 14:33:22< aquileia> and can change it of course
20140227 14:34:57< aquileia> but right now my question is rather... should it stay under EasyCoding?
20140227 14:36:14 * zookeeper isn't able to say
20140227 14:36:24< mattsc> AI0867: yeah, after shadowm's reply I even noticed that I had seen some discussion about that, I just didn't remember in the first moment if shock.  ;)  I take it that you will change that then?
20140227 14:36:25< vultraz> I don't think so
20140227 14:38:08< aquileia> I'll move it to NotSoEasyCoding and add the YAMG integration then
20140227 14:38:43< vultraz> mattsc: since you're currently using mac, do you know if any wesnoth data is ever stored in /usr/local as indicated here? http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EditingWesnoth
20140227 14:39:19< aquileia> lipkab: Oh, there is a 'Ask lipk' comment...
20140227 14:39:59< vultraz> I've only used XCode builds where the data is inside the package, but I think for scons/cmake builds it should still be in the repo clone folder. Never heard about it being in usr/local, but thought I'd check before removing the reference
20140227 14:40:02< aquileia> Do you want to alter it?
20140227 14:41:05< mattsc> vultraz: I only have ever used Xcode to build as well, so don't know.  You could drop Alarantalara a PM, he'd know.
20140227 14:42:54< mattsc> Anything you install with macports is in /opt/local these days (scons, for example, in my case), so it might also be that.
20140227 14:44:33< Soliton> aquileia: just adding a few more sliders isn't going to make it a harder coding task. a harder design task, maybe.
20140227 14:45:18< aquileia> But designing an interfase to YAMG is...
20140227 14:45:27< aquileia> s/interfase/interface
20140227 14:46:25< aquileia> By the way, are there vertical sliders?
20140227 14:46:38< lipkab> No.
20140227 14:46:54< aquileia> For the elevation slider, this would be nice
20140227 14:48:17< lipkab> As for YAMG, I'm not sure we even have a proper C++ interface to it.
20140227 14:48:57< lipkab> Which would be a prerequisite for creating a GUI, naturally.
20140227 14:49:10< aquileia> YAMG is currently a command line tool taking a pseudo WML block and creating a map buffer
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20140227 14:50:13< vultraz> aquileia: when I used it on windows it was a clickable app
20140227 14:50:38< aquileia> Didn't know of that
20140227 14:54:08< lipkab> aquileia: Are we talking about the version included in mainline here?
20140227 14:55:05< vultraz> aquileia: I'm referring to the compiled versions from the forums
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20140227 14:59:09< aquileia> In mainline, there is only the c++ code and I can't see any way to create an application directly: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/tree/master/src/generators/yamg
20140227 14:59:38< vultraz> You need to compile it
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20140227 15:01:19< aquileia> My C knowledge is a bit rusty, but without a main function, I see no way to do this
20140227 15:02:11< lipkab> aquileia: Because there's no way :P YAMG is an alternative generator available from the game.
20140227 15:02:35< lipkab> Well, in fact, I'm not sure how available it is, see my remark about interfaces.
20140227 15:03:25< lipkab> The standalone version has nothing to do with easy coding tasks, because it's not part of Wesnoth.
20140227 15:04:33< vultraz> aquileia: there was a standlone version, but I think fabi__ ripped the main code out for inclusion in the game
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20140227 15:06:55< aquileia> To come back to my initial question... the 'GUI2 update' task for random map generation isn't really up to date. Delete it? Keep it? Add information about YAMG? Move it to NotSoEasyCoding?
20140227 15:08:10< aquileia> And if I delete it... with what should I replace it? It's the only GUI2 task right now
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20140227 15:10:42< aquileia> And please don't respond with 'Do it' ... I don't know the code, and I don't have time
20140227 15:13:12< lipkab> aquileia: Why is it not up to date? The task isn't to write a dialog for the generator, but to convert the existing one to GUI2.
20140227 15:13:41< lipkab> Adding an interface for YAMG could be another task.
20140227 15:15:37< aquileia> Doing a GUI2 dialog just to have most of it deleted due to YAMG doesn't seem efficient
20140227 15:16:11< Soliton> YAMG is an addition not a replacement, no?
20140227 15:16:40< lipkab> Yes.
20140227 15:16:40< aquileia> Yes and no - it's performance is clearly superior IMHO
20140227 15:17:10< lipkab> There are *no* plans to remove the old generator.
20140227 15:17:21< aquileia> But my opinion isn't really imporant
20140227 15:17:48< lipkab> I was considering whether should I say that :P
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20140227 15:18:34< aquileia> So just leave it be, it is
20140227 15:18:56< lipkab> Yes.
20140227 15:19:22< aquileia> Good that I continued asking...
20140227 15:20:46< aquileia> Thanks for all your answers
20140227 15:21:23< lipkab> You're welcome.
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20140227 15:44:51< fabi__> aquileia: hello
20140227 15:44:59< aquileia> hi
20140227 15:45:58< fabi__> aquileia: You want to work on the yamg integration?
20140227 15:46:04< aquileia> No
20140227 15:46:51< aquileia> I wanted to ask whether the easy coding task should be updated to include YAMG
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20140227 15:48:07< aquileia> I'd have no chance to ork on this part of the code without a lot of preparation
20140227 15:48:19< aquileia> s/ork/work
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20140227 15:50:23< aquileia> But lipk said the old task should stay the same - YAMG would become a seperate task if needed
20140227 15:51:56< fabi__> It depends.
20140227 15:53:57< fabi__> But I guess getting the frontend to YAMG (which is a matter of copy and paste the dialog for the old generator) can be called an easy coding task.
20140227 15:54:11< fabi__> Porting the gui1 dialog for the old generator to gui2 is most likely no easy coding task.
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20140227 16:39:51< aquileia> lipkab: Where does your new MP create screen interact wiith the map generators?
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20140227 16:46:24< aquileia> lipkab: ^
20140227 16:46:30< werlley> what the difference in download site, to github? (dev)
20140227 16:47:38< lipkab> aquileia: It asks the generator to show a config dialog when the appropriate button is pressed somewhere in mp_create::process_event.
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20140227 16:48:13< aquileia> I only found mp_create_game...
20140227 16:48:21< lipkab> And I presume it also extracts the result at some point, but I'm not sure anymore where that happens.
20140227 16:48:38< lipkab> Which file are you looking at?
20140227 16:49:04< aquileia> mp_create_game.cpp - I need to find the other i guess
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20140227 16:49:46< lipkab> multiplayer_create.cpp is what you want.
20140227 16:49:59< aquileia> found it, thanks
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20140227 16:50:23< lipkab> mp_create_game is an unused GUI2 dialog.
20140227 16:50:41< Aishiko_laptop> hi lipkab I had a question for you about Porting the random map generator dialog to GUI2, having never done a port of any kind I wasn't sure how to start, and anytime I do a serach for GUI2 and port I only get idea pages, I was hoping you might be able to direct me towards some reading material that would help me understand the process
20140227 16:51:28< aquileia> if it's unused, perhaps there could be a legacy folder?
20140227 16:51:49< aquileia> Or is it even newer and not yet functional?
20140227 16:53:04< lipkab> Aishiko_laptop: There are several GUI2 dialog implementations in src/gui/dialogs with matching layout files data/gui/default/window.
20140227 16:53:09< aquileia> Aishiko_laptop: Nice if someone wants to do this
20140227 16:53:40< lipkab> I suggest you look at them. I think it's quite self-explanatory if you've every worked with a widget toolkit.
20140227 16:54:06< lipkab> aquileia: The latter. It's not the past, it's the future! :)
20140227 16:54:24< Aishiko_laptop> well I'm reading up on them, there is a LOT to learn, and lipkab I might have but it might not have had that name.
20140227 16:54:40< aquileia> So there's no need to fix a bug in the old one?
20140227 16:55:59< lipkab> Aishiko_laptop: The only feature that GUI2 can't emulate is the changing label next to the slider. I suppose you could use a radiobox instead, but I'll need to think it over.
20140227 16:56:12< lipkab> aquileia: What bug?
20140227 16:56:56< lipkab> Aishiko_laptop: Qt, Gtk, Winforms, etc.
20140227 16:57:33< aquileia> If you select YAMG there, it always creates the same map and it errors due to a missing scenario ID
20140227 16:57:49< Aishiko_laptop> ohh Qt I have somewhat, but I still have issues at times with it
20140227 16:58:01< aquileia> fabi was surprised it's even there
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20140227 17:04:07< lipkab> aquileia: That's not a bug in the generator dialog. It's not supposed to be usable with YAMG. The problem is that someone wired YAMG into the interface before properly integrating it.
20140227 17:04:07< lipkab> I'm suprised that fabi's surprised because he was the one who merged YAMG.
20140227 17:04:34< aquileia> No, he was surprised it's activated for MP games
20140227 17:05:19< lipkab> I understand, but I thought he did that.
20140227 17:05:31< lipkab> So it was probably thunderstruck then?
20140227 17:05:46< lipkab> Who knows.
20140227 17:07:15< lipkab> Anyways, we're in a freeze, so it's not getting any graphical interface before 1.12.
20140227 17:07:19< aquileia> I probalby should download 1.11.10 to double-check, but in 1.11.9 it is there
20140227 17:07:36-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140227 17:07:47< lipkab> ...so I'm going to disable it.
20140227 17:08:02< lipkab> It's there in master too.
20140227 17:08:23< aquileia> That's not necessary, you only need to have a scenario ID
20140227 17:09:33< aquileia> IIRC pyrophorous asked what the 'create scenario' functin does before implementing it, and somebody answered it's a wrapper for this purpose
20140227 17:09:59< aquileia> but he probably forgot about just this tiny thing
20140227 17:10:14< Aishiko_laptop> what? making sure it works before commiting to the mainline?
20140227 17:11:26< aquileia> It's not about the dialog, it's about the backend
20140227 17:11:49-!- spoffy_ [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 17:11:54< aquileia> probably just a missing line of code
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20140227 17:12:36< lipkab> Even if it produced a scenario id properly, the lack of configurability still makes it broken for most practical purposes.
20140227 17:12:42< Aishiko_laptop> well I mean if the backend doesn't work there shouldn't be a dialog for it, but if the back end works I would agree with you on that, or section of code
20140227 17:13:03< lipkab> But I won't discuss that any further now 'cause I'm going.
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20140227 17:15:41< aquileia> Making it functional would set it on par (and IMHO above) the existing ones - without any dialog changes, which could wait for 1.13
20140227 17:16:20< aquileia> But I'd need some pointers as to where to search...
20140227 17:17:04< aquileia> I'll try to compare with the old one and perhaps I can find a way to fix it
20140227 17:25:21< Soliton> werlley: what other download site besides github are you talking about?
20140227 17:26:48< werlley> the game itself, but already did that had me confused
20140227 17:31:48 * Aishiko_laptop realizes that her laptop lacks the storage to download wesnoth source until its been cleaned up
20140227 17:32:19< Aishiko_laptop> I think it might be talking about distros having copies intheir repos? maybe?
20140227 17:32:34< Aishiko_laptop> or gna for the bug reporting and mailing list?
20140227 17:34:30-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 17:38:41-!- happygrue_ is now known as happygrue
20140227 17:44:28< aquileia> Just a little mockup for my idea how to make altitude control user friendly... http://imagebin.org/296157
20140227 17:53:47< Soliton> looks neat.
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20140227 18:32:33< thunderstruck> lipkab: MP Create automatically picks up random map generators and puts them in that list.
20140227 18:33:50< aquileia> So the obvious fix is to fix the missing ID
20140227 18:33:55< lipkab> Ah.
20140227 18:33:59-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@61.245.163.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140227 18:34:19< thunderstruck> aquileia: what ID?
20140227 18:34:26< lipkab> aquileia: And the not working regenerate button and so on.
20140227 18:35:00< aquileia> Regenerate would work if the seed wasn't defined as constant, so this should be trivial
20140227 18:35:38< aquileia> thunderstruck: YAMG doesn't work for MP because it reports a missing scenario ID (at least for 1.11.9)
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20140227 18:41:30< aquileia> ... what? http://pastebin.com/rRRvVssj
20140227 18:42:42< aquileia> Was this done to keep more possibilities open?
20140227 18:56:08< aquileia> lipkab, thunderstruck: Could the error message be a bit misleading? I find no 'scenario ID' in the old mapgen, and in YAMG no create_scenario at all
20140227 18:58:20< thunderstruck> aquileia: Well, did you check code which reports that error?
20140227 18:59:20< aquileia> No... I'm pretty much lost in the fact that it's spread over dozens of files classified as either MP or mapgen
20140227 18:59:50< aquileia> Where is it?
20140227 18:59:56< thunderstruck> Are you on Unix machine by any chance?
20140227 19:00:04< aquileia> no, sorry
20140227 19:00:35< thunderstruck> There's this 'grep' utility which allows you to search for text in files.
20140227 19:00:36-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 19:00:49< thunderstruck> There must be some alternatives for Windows.
20140227 19:01:28< aquileia> There is... I'm such an idiot. I just searched one folder but not all
20140227 19:02:34< iceiceice> aquileia: one way to use unix utilities on windows is to install cygwin, i know people that really like that program
20140227 19:02:56< thunderstruck> So back to your question. It might be that the problem is somewhere else, but the end result is that scenario ID is missing.
20140227 19:03:22< thunderstruck> And that's why you see that error message.
20140227 19:03:22< aquileia> I installed MinGW which has the same UNIX shell... but it doesn't work for me
20140227 19:04:19< aquileia> By the way, my workaround: Open all of src in a text editor (thanks to multiple tabs) and 'search in all files'
20140227 19:05:36< aquileia> src\multiplayer_connect.cpp line 399
20140227 19:05:57< aquileia> I'll try to understand that part of the code...
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20140227 19:11:24< thunderstruck> aquileia: It's unlikely that the problem is in MP Connect.
20140227 19:13:23< aquileia> if (engine_.level().empty()) {set_result(CREATE); return; } ---- would this trigger if engine_.level doesn't exist?
20140227 19:15:15< thunderstruck> Yeah
20140227 19:16:08< aquileia> I mean if it wasn't created at all and therefore has no empty procedure
20140227 19:16:13< thunderstruck> But I don't think that might happen if you're not trying to "Load" a game.
20140227 19:17:19< thunderstruck> aquileia: Then program should crash.
20140227 19:17:30< aquileia> ok
20140227 19:17:39< fabi__> Might crash.
20140227 19:17:45< fabi__> If you are lucky.
20140227 19:17:55< thunderstruck> :)
20140227 19:19:35< aquileia> So I'll assume (for now) that it's just engine_.level()["id"] which misses...
20140227 19:21:18< thunderstruck> aquileia: Or maybe the whole level does not get properly initialised and as a result scenario ID is missing.
20140227 19:22:00< thunderstruck> aquileia: The answer should lie somewhere in MP Create/Create Engine I guess.
20140227 19:22:37< aquileia> That seems more likely as I didn't find the function needed to produce it in YAMG
20140227 19:23:53-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 19:24:01< thunderstruck> aquileia: I don't really know anything about YAMG, but maybe fabi__ does.
20140227 19:24:13< Soliton> (engine_.level() is a method it can't not exist or that code wouldn't compile in the first place.)
20140227 19:26:31< fabi__> aquileia: afaik yamg only produces a string containing the terrain codes.
20140227 19:26:59< fabi__> aquileia: Most likely not more than the "map_data" attribute takes as argument.
20140227 19:28:20< aquileia> I think it just nees a 'config map_generator::create_scenario' definition, but I can't tell
20140227 19:28:43< aquileia> s/nees/needs
20140227 19:31:01< fabi__> Ivanovic: Now we are in Freeze, when do we see a branch for 1.12?
20140227 19:32:02< fabi__> Ivanovic: Let's do it right now, those gsoc students will want to submit pull requests soon.
20140227 19:32:18< thunderstruck> aquileia: That's probably true. I think that all map generators should have the same interface.
20140227 19:33:50< aquileia> Would you mind to try out? I don't have the building environment yet, and can't set it up as I don't have that much time
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20140227 19:36:56< Ivanovic> fabi__: i heard from shadowm that there is a critical bug warranting a 1.11.11 release next weekend
20140227 19:37:03< Ivanovic> afterwards i can branch off 1.12
20140227 19:37:21< Ivanovic> until then bugfixes from gsoc candidates are welcome, too
20140227 19:37:23< Ivanovic> ;)
20140227 19:40:05-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Quit: Crab_]
20140227 19:40:28< thunderstruck> aquileia: it might not be exactly trivial to do that.
20140227 19:40:38-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140227 19:40:40< thunderstruck> But I can't tell because I know very little about map generators.
20140227 19:41:03< thunderstruck> Anyway, you could try that out after you set up your environment.
20140227 19:41:25< aquileia> Which would be in... one month, I guess
20140227 19:41:54< aquileia> university takes its time (lab reports)
20140227 19:42:33< thunderstruck> I see.
20140227 19:42:37< thunderstruck> Are you after GSoC?
20140227 19:43:28< aquileia> No
20140227 19:44:14< aquileia> I'm just a random guy trying to do a little work on a game I love
20140227 19:44:51< spoffy_> Why do you never get heartwarming childrens tales about open source projects?
20140227 19:45:07< fabi__> spoffy_: ?
20140227 19:45:09< spoffy_> They're as much an expression of love as that of a child with a teddy bear :P
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20140227 19:46:44< aquileia> Probably as we're too old for that.... your teddy was a person for you, Wesnoth is more abstract
20140227 19:47:10-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 19:47:22< Spoffy> Open source projects are people too! 
20140227 19:47:30< Rhonda> Spoffy: Well, I have two tales about wesnoth.  :)
20140227 19:47:46< Rhonda> I consider them pretty heartwarming.  They were for me at least.
20140227 19:48:04< Rhonda> Like … noticing a guy standing at a train station with his laptop in his hand playing wesnoth.
20140227 19:48:07< Spoffy> Rhonda: I'd be glad to hear them, actually!
20140227 19:48:40< aquileia> Rhonda: This could have been me...
20140227 19:48:40< Spoffy> There's always something sweet about seeing people using what you've worked on.
20140227 19:48:56< Rhonda> Was short after the 1.8 release, he was still have been playing 1.6, told him about the new version. :)
20140227 19:48:59< Rhonda> aquileia: In vienna?
20140227 19:49:04< aquileia> No
20140227 19:49:30< Spoffy> Haha :P I bet he was very thankful :P
20140227 19:49:31< aquileia> Nobody told me there was a new release back then :(
20140227 19:49:35< Rhonda> And there was this other story, about someone I started to date at that time.
20140227 19:49:47< Spoffy> Oooh.
20140227 19:49:51< Rhonda> We were chatting, and I noticed that she was distracted, so I asked what she was doing.
20140227 19:49:57< Spoffy> *Sits down by the fire, a mug of warm cocoa in hand*
20140227 19:50:02< Rhonda> She said she was playing a game.
20140227 19:50:09< Rhonda> I asked which one, curious as I am.
20140227 19:50:18< Rhonda> She said some fantasy game, I probably won't know.
20140227 19:50:33< Rhonda> After she told me the name of the game I told her to look into the credits.  :P
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20140227 19:52:51< Spoffy> Haha :P That must have been awesome :)
20140227 19:53:20< Rhonda> She gave me feedback on the German translation indeed.
20140227 19:53:23-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f45dbf.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 19:53:28< fabi> Hmmm, I am not in the credits. So it won't work for me.
20140227 19:54:00< Spoffy> Hahaha.
20140227 19:54:00< Rhonda> fabi: contribute :)
20140227 19:54:16< fabi> Yeah I should. But I don't feel like commiting right now.
20140227 19:55:17< zookeeper> fabi, any particular reason why you haven't added yourself?
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20140227 19:55:38< Spoffy> Heh. I know that feeling. I've got a whole bunch of stuff I'd love to work on, but Uni is busy as hell. At least SoC gives me an excuse to work on cool things :)
20140227 19:55:53-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140227 19:56:33< fabi> zookeeper: Yeah, I am in the credits for LoW since ages. Just not mentioned as "coding" developer. I simply forgot to add me in there when I did my first c++ stuff.
20140227 19:57:25< zookeeper> okay
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20140227 20:04:08< Rhonda> fabi: If you are in the credits for LoW, then why did you say you aren't?
20140227 20:10:59< fabi> Rhonda: The campaign credits are sourced from a different file, thus no match.
20140227 20:12:44< Rhonda> fabi: Sure, but it will get displayed in the game, not?
20140227 20:13:13< fabi> Only when you finished LoW iirc.
20140227 20:13:32< fabi> And I should be in the credits of DM as well.
20140227 20:18:37< Rhonda> fabi: Saw you in the credits in-game at DM, yes.
20140227 20:25:44< fabi> Hurray!
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20140227 20:38:44< iceiceice> fabi: i have a quick question for you about the minimap 
20140227 20:39:08< fabi> iceiceice: Yo, what is on your mind?
20140227 20:39:27< iceiceice> i'm trying to fix a bug related to the blindfold feature i created, which is that basically everything about it works except that minimap visibility is not blinded
20140227 20:39:47< iceiceice> i guess that this is because minimap uses a slightly different code path to determine what is visible and what isn't
20140227 20:39:51< fabi> blindfold?
20140227 20:40:17< iceiceice> so sometimes you want it to be the case that a player can't see the map or any units
20140227 20:40:24< iceiceice> for example, 
20140227 20:40:46< iceiceice> there's an old complaint that in hotseat mp, when it is time for the other players turn one of the sides can always be seen,
20140227 20:40:58< iceiceice> when ideally there would be a "blindfold" period when the players change seats
20140227 20:41:05< iceiceice> also in mp when players disconnect,
20140227 20:41:13< iceiceice> we would like for players to be able to rejoin without getting full vision of the game history
20140227 20:41:33< fabi> I see.
20140227 20:41:42< iceiceice> i made a very simple "blindfold" struct which works basically like "update_locker" for the video object, but blindfold applies to the display object instead
20140227 20:42:11< iceiceice> so it was a bit laborious because i guess the code that determines when things are visible is already somewhat fragmented,
20140227 20:42:21< iceiceice> the display has this "fogged" and "shrouded" test, 
20140227 20:42:43< iceiceice> but also units have a method that decides for themselves whether they are visible to a team or not?
20140227 20:42:43< iceiceice> and the minimap it seems has something else,
20140227 20:43:07< iceiceice> so since that was a fresh feature i thought i might ask you how you think woudl be the best way / what would certianly be a bad way to fix this
20140227 20:43:41< iceiceice> i've got eveyrthing working except the minimap right now
20140227 20:43:46< iceiceice> actually imo it might be a good thing if we some how refactored all of this so that visibility was determined in a single place
20140227 20:44:32< fabi> Agreed
20140227 20:44:41< iceiceice> additionally i have a theory that the main bottleneck in skipping through "quick replays" is recalculation of the visibility map at every turn, so i'm hopefully that if blindfold is fully implemented it will be a much faster way to rejoin the game
20140227 20:44:53< iceiceice> *hopefuly
20140227 20:44:56< iceiceice> *hopeful
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20140227 21:00:30< happygrue> iceiceice: that would make a great many people who play multiplayer regularly very happy.  :D
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20140227 21:01:08< happygrue> both the blindfold and rejoining the game more quickly are great features I mean.
20140227 21:01:50< iceiceice> y i mean the blindfold is almost done except for the minimap part, as for whether it would actually speed up rejoining, idk, i guess we could profile it sometime
20140227 21:02:27< iceiceice> when i used to run wesnoth on a netbook it was definitely somewhat agonizing sometimes, and i've definitely read complaints on forums from e.g. people who play in internet cafes in southeast asia
20140227 21:02:40< iceiceice> iirc
20140227 21:02:55< iceiceice> i think most players assume that it comes down to speed of connection,
20140227 21:03:18< iceiceice> let me see if i can find the thread, i remember players were asking, "why cant the host just send snapshot, we get so much lag when we rejoin"
20140227 21:03:43< iceiceice> but we concluded that actually the connection has nothing to do with it and actually its the speed of the client to process the replay
20140227 21:04:07< iceiceice> once animations are disabled its hard for me to imagine what is the next bottleneck besides visibility
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20140227 21:04:34< happygrue> it is not an issue for shorter games, but there are some UMC scenarios that are little mini RPGs that might have hundreds of turns...
20140227 21:05:45-!- trewe [~trewe@52.210.137.78.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140227 21:07:55< happygrue> and I guess it's probably very annoying for players who have less stable connections and might have to rejoin a normal game a few times if they are having trouble
20140227 21:09:17< happygrue> It was really bad before the fast replay button, now it's not critical I guess, but probably troubles some folks still.
20140227 21:11:17< iceiceice> y i might experiment with applying the blindfold during the fast replays turns as well, to see if it makes it any faster
20140227 21:20:16< iceiceice> ok bb for now
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20140227 21:44:07< shadowm> fabi: Is there any chance you could push that sidebar fix before this Saturday?
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20140227 21:54:23< shadowm> fabi: If the relevant commit(s) is in a branch with less relevant commits you don't want to push yet, you can use `git cherry-pick <ref>` the individual commits into master.
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20140227 22:53:45< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master 1eca83ffa7d4 / data/themes/macros.cfg: Added a macro to sync the minimap region of default and editor theme. http://git.io/XDk8Tg
20140227 22:53:45< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master 36a7b067487d / src/theme.cpp: Adjusted some indentations. http://git.io/PHQIiQ
20140227 22:53:46< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master bd77c7a0faf2 / data/core/about.cfg: Added myself to the credits. http://git.io/eXn4qQ
20140227 22:53:47< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master afef2497bbef / data/campaigns/Legend_of_Wesmere/ (3 files in 3 dirs): LoW 7: Enlarged the map and adjusted starting positions. http://git.io/wFszqQ
20140227 22:53:48< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master eb31f8f4e094 / src/editor/map/map_context.cpp: Fix loading of items in the editor beign one hex field off. http://git.io/isi6rg
20140227 22:53:49< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master d04f675c78a4 / src/map_location.hpp: Change the interface of map_location's constructor. http://git.io/VL9gxQ
20140227 22:53:51< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master cd76459837f5 / src/hotkey/hotkey_command.cpp: Fix some mess with wrong hidden attributes and hotkey bindings. http://git.io/OIhk9Q
20140227 22:53:53< irker697> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master ca2eec45b96f / / (5 files in 3 dirs): Update to the default and editor themes. http://git.io/HV7Q5Q
20140227 22:54:44< fabi> shadowm: There is still something wrong with the colors.
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20140227 23:03:39< fabi> shadowm: Also it is for sure a violation of the string freeze. Ivanovic should know about it.
20140227 23:12:09< shadowm> fabi: Then tell him about it?
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20140227 23:12:23< shadowm> It's not something that can be fixed with pofix, can it?
20140227 23:12:42< fabi> Maybe one of the strings.
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20140227 23:17:29< shadowm> Hm, someone wanted to know about porting the default map generator's settings dialog to GUI2?
20140227 23:19:08< shadowm> I haven't looked at it in detail because I lost interested in the random map generator 8 years ago, but I believe the GUI2 slider widget's functionality is currently insufficient because the dialog's sliders have different labels associated to each possible value.
20140227 23:19:14< shadowm> *interest
20140227 23:19:47< fabi> aquileia: ^
20140227 23:21:32< shadowm> fabi: What text editor do you use?
20140227 23:22:03< fabi> shadowm: emacs or the eclipse built-in
20140227 23:22:32< aquileia> shadowm: Aishiko_laptop thought about it but took another task for now, I'm trying to find out how all this works but won't be of much use right now
20140227 23:23:29< aquileia> So the conversion is open for anybody
20140227 23:23:51< shadowm> fabi: Okay, just asking because I'm seeing incorrect indentation in some theme WML that'll be fixed by wmlindent at a later point.
20140227 23:24:00< aquileia> I'll try  to fix the integration of YAMG if I can
20140227 23:24:50< shadowm> fabi: Also, your credits entry doesn't respect the established format "Real name (nickname1[/nickname2[/nickname3]])".
20140227 23:25:51< shadowm> Some people have apparently used ircuser as if it were syntax recognized by the wikifying script, but it isn't.
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20140227 23:34:18< shadowm> happygrue: Around?
20140227 23:36:02< happygrue> shadowm: for a bit, what's up?
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20140227 23:36:48< shadowm> happygrue: You were interested in the sidebar changes, I believe. Perhaps you could take a look at them?
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20140227 23:37:51< shadowm> happygrue: It doesn't have to be right now, of course.
20140227 23:38:17< happygrue> yeah, I might be able to later tonight or I'll take a look tomorrow if not
20140227 23:38:27< happygrue> thanks for the reminder
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--- Log closed Fri Feb 28 00:00:56 2014