--- Log opened Fri Feb 21 00:00:27 2014
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20140221 02:39:10< uiysum> Hello
20140221 02:40:02< shadowm> Hi.
20140221 02:41:21< uiysum> how ya doing
20140221 02:41:48< uiysum> I'm from over at tmw and I'm just checking the sanity of over project
20140221 02:42:01< uiysum> er of over projects
20140221 02:42:12< uiysum> really like how you guys manage stuff
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20140221 02:48:05< uiysum> peek-a-boo enchilado I see you.
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20140221 03:06:38< Gambit> enchilado remember that time you tmw?
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20140221 17:49:48< dipsey> morning
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20140221 17:54:35< dipsey> A little question concerning wml. If I wanted to contain several factions in cfg is that possible with just seperate [multiplayer_side] tags?
20140221 17:55:39< dipsey> this would ease having to create seperate files since, I'm basically just cloning the default era for some minipulation
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20140221 18:06:12< zookeeper> dipsey, nothing ever requires separate files
20140221 18:06:17< zookeeper> so yes
20140221 18:08:08< zookeeper> you can put all WML in your whole add-on in a single _main.cfg if you want, separate files are for convenience only
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20140221 18:08:26< hayig2000> hi guys
20140221 18:08:29< dipsey> Ok thanks
20140221 18:09:00< hayig2000> i hope there will be a free wesnoth port for android
20140221 18:09:23< dipsey> Can't you get a source version?
20140221 18:10:12< hayig2000> but how to compile on android?
20140221 18:10:13< dipsey> hayig2000 sometimes they'll offer it free of charge like on the apple appstore there is a free source version for ios
20140221 18:10:21< dipsey> Oh
20140221 18:10:50< dipsey> You'd probably need a android IDE, like how ios has xcode
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20140221 18:11:04< dipsey> and a way to upload it to your android phone
20140221 18:12:19< dipsey> zookeeper, ok thanks, and as a last question. If I wanted to trigger events/objective for the era it would make sense to put it there to or would it freak wesnoth out if I did that?
20140221 18:12:49< zookeeper> dipsey, put what where? you can put [event]s in your [era] and they work exactly as you'd expect
20140221 18:13:06< hayig2000> ok i will look into that dipsey
20140221 18:13:20< hayig2000> thanks for help
20140221 18:13:22< dipsey> Ok thanks, zookeeper.
20140221 18:13:40< dipsey> I just wasn't sure. I've not coded in a while
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20140221 23:12:11< enchilado> Gambit: I still TMW a little
20140221 23:12:39< nemo> Gambit: oh. btw. Wikipedia Deletionists are on the warpath
20140221 23:12:47< nemo> http://hedgewars.org/node/5796
20140221 23:12:48< enchilado> I'd prefer to contribute to a better project but I don't know what
20140221 23:13:04< enchilado> I don't think I'm good enough for Wesnoth
20140221 23:13:19< nemo> enchilado: ah. you'd be perfect for hedgewars then ;)
20140221 23:13:33< enchilado> Hedgewars doesn't use pixel art
20140221 23:13:35< nemo> enchilado: you can help me figure out why my attempt to pull lua scripting into preview generation is crashing lua 
20140221 23:13:49< nemo> hm
20140221 23:14:02< Gambit> nemo: I mean, their notability guidelines are really clear
20140221 23:14:07< enchilado> I do art, not code or scripting :(
20140221 23:14:09< nemo> enchilado: Wesnoth is *all* pixel art? 'cause those anime looking units seemed designed for vectors I thought
20140221 23:14:11< Gambit> you gotta get some reviews and articles together
20140221 23:14:15< Gambit> I feel your pain though :(
20140221 23:14:18< nemo> Gambit: we posted those on the deletion page
20140221 23:14:26< nemo> Gambit: where we get stuff that seems totally unrelated to notability
20140221 23:14:27< Gambit> nemo: I hope it works out
20140221 23:14:31< nemo> Gambit: like "spammy" 
20140221 23:14:34< enchilado> nemo: terrain and portraits aren't
20140221 23:14:42< nemo> Gambit: we posted those 5 years ago too...
20140221 23:14:59< enchilado> All units are pixel art
20140221 23:15:04< nemo> m'k
20140221 23:15:17< nemo> enchilado: for some reason I thought you did code too
20140221 23:15:35< enchilado> Nope
20140221 23:15:40< enchilado> Not I
20140221 23:16:37< nemo> Gambit: "Aaaand now that I've seen the article I'm convinced that overturning and listing at AfD would be a bureaucratic waste of time"
20140221 23:16:55< nemo> "Endorse unless evidence is brought forth that the situation is really any different than it was last time."
20140221 23:17:08< nemo> last time we didn't get a chance to present evidence either
20140221 23:17:33< Gambit> nemo: You need to find websites that have reviewed the game
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20140221 23:17:42< nemo> Gambit: yeah. those are on that page
20140221 23:17:44< Gambit> Linking to your own site, launchpad, and GNA don't work
20140221 23:17:47< nemo> Gambit: we brought them up last time they did it too
20140221 23:17:56< nemo> Gambit: well. here's the problem. We can't edit our own page either
20140221 23:17:58< nemo> that'd be COI
20140221 23:17:59< Gambit> nemo: No no they need to be *sources in the article*
20140221 23:18:01< nemo> so.  Other people do
20140221 23:18:03< nemo> I know...
20140221 23:18:14< nemo> Gambit: problem is, at this point we need to argue for getting it back
20140221 23:18:17< nemo> saaaaame as last time
20140221 23:18:24< nemo> and the stuff being brought forward ain't about notability
20140221 23:18:44< nemo> Gambit: I think sheepluva said it best in his response on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Hedgewars though
20140221 23:18:53< nemo> "It's not like many
20140221 23:18:53< nemo> commercial magazine/site would suddenly decide to review a FOSS game that was released the first time 6 years ago."
20140221 23:18:55< Gambit> nemo: I'm not seeing any reviews in the deletion discussion
20140221 23:18:58< nemo> ...
20140221 23:19:04< nemo> http://m8y.org/hw/hw-ct.jpg REVIEW
20140221 23:19:17< nemo> http://www.pcprofessionale.it/2008/11/17/download-del-giorno-hedgewars/
20140221 23:19:18< nemo> REVIEW
20140221 23:19:27< nemo> http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=NewArchives&issue=105
20140221 23:19:29< nemo> DITTO
20140221 23:19:44< nemo> Gambit: and ofc the other links are just references, but notability doesn't mean it has to be a REVIEW
20140221 23:20:07< Gambit> No, it's jsut that's the only kind of journalism video games tend to get :(
20140221 23:20:19< nemo> Gambit: I also linked to those psychology papers
20140221 23:20:30< nemo> there were like 20 articles on it we found that week all over the place
20140221 23:20:31< nemo> cnet etc
20140221 23:20:41< Gambit> put them in that discussion
20140221 23:20:44< nemo> I did...
20140221 23:20:47< Gambit> and stick a newline between each one :P
20140221 23:20:54< Gambit> make it look like a giant intimidating list
20140221 23:21:05< nemo> hum.
20140221 23:21:28< nemo> Gambit: anyway, the responses seem to be totally ignoring what's there now
20140221 23:21:31< Gambit> and then you might have to say "Screw COI rules" :<
20140221 23:21:42< nemo> Gambit: also, I'd like to note that 56% of the Mozilla Firefox citations are mozilla.org
20140221 23:21:57< nemo> Gambit: the existing hedgewars.org article is nowhere near that bad
20140221 23:21:57< Gambit> I know of at least one project here on freenode that had to do that to get their wikipedia page in a suitable condition.
20140221 23:22:05< nemo> and, you know, that's not even considering stuff like, oh, ohloh
20140221 23:24:06< Gambit> nemo: One thing that sucks here is that you were apparently Speed Deleted :\
20140221 23:24:08< Gambit> Which is BS
20140221 23:24:10< nemo> mm
20140221 23:24:13< nemo> deletionists
20140221 23:24:19< nemo> gotta hate 'em
20140221 23:24:33< Gambit> Your page wasn't /that bad/ by a long shot.
20140221 23:24:50< Gambit> it just needs more citations
20140221 23:28:42< Gambit> nemo: Something I was talking about with the Frogatto guys the other day and with Wesnoth people occasionally is that I think FOSS games have to start doing named expansions
20140221 23:28:49< Gambit> Because this is a problem we all have; getting reviews
20140221 23:29:00< Gambit> Sites will talk about a game once
20140221 23:29:09< Gambit> And then X years later instead of doing sequels, we have just regular updates
20140221 23:29:19< Gambit> and there's so much new stuff it could have been a sequel
20140221 23:29:23< Gambit> but since it's not, they don't give a shit
20140221 23:30:07< Gambit> nemo: Like I think we have to do "Battle for Wesnoth: Return of the Jedi" to get any kind of press to give a shit that it's been four years since they last gave us a shot.
20140221 23:31:04< zookeeper> wesnoth four years ago was the exact same game as today, with little changes here and there.
20140221 23:31:28< zookeeper> no one in their right mind would say the difference is anywhere near that expected of a "sequel".
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20140221 23:31:42< Gambit> WoW: Mists of Pandaria is the exact same game as four years ago with little changes here and there
20140221 23:31:59< zookeeper> between 1.0 and 1.10? eh... maybe, kinda, sorta i could buy that.
20140221 23:32:10< enchilado> Are you saying Gambit isn't in his right mind, zookeeper?
20140221 23:32:19< zookeeper> but MoP is not a game, it's an expansion to a game?
20140221 23:32:20< Gambit> ^heh
20140221 23:32:35< Gambit> zookeeper: Yes I said we should do named expansions; not sequels
20140221 23:32:36< zookeeper> enchilado, yeah i think i'd be ready to say that any day :>
20140221 23:32:42< enchilado> Make a Wesnoth expansion
20140221 23:32:49< zookeeper> ok, fine then
20140221 23:33:01< enchilado> Too sloe
20140221 23:33:03< enchilado> w
20140221 23:33:05 * _8680_ remembers Gambit’s former forums rank.
20140221 23:33:27< enchilado> Gambit: so you're saying updates should have names and be called expansions?
20140221 23:34:04< Gambit> Every time a new campaign gets added: boom. Have an art contest to make some kind of fancy banner for it. Call it the "[insert campaign name here] update" write some marketing fluff
20140221 23:34:08< enchilado> _8680_: something about a screw loose?
20140221 23:34:26< _8680_> enchilado: It was “Loose Screw”, yes.
20140221 23:34:55< _8680_> Gambit: Added to what, mainline? That doesn’t happen anymore.
20140221 23:35:16< enchilado> Why doesn't it?
20140221 23:35:34< Gambit> I just don't think the press is well equipped yet to understand what it means to go from 1.8 to 1.10
20140221 23:35:45< Gambit> All they know is "Well we already reviewed Battle for Wesnoth"
20140221 23:35:51< Gambit> and "We already reviewed Hedgewars"
20140221 23:35:51< zookeeper> whatever the stable release was which added the most new campaigns (1.6?) could have been labelled an expansion, but one new campaign isn't really that big of a thing
20140221 23:44:38< nemo> Gambit: I put a list in on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2014_February_20#Hedgewars
20140221 23:45:06< nemo> Gambit: I try to make a point to have a new weapon or feature in every release.
20140221 23:45:14< nemo> Since users don't care about, oh, physfs
20140221 23:45:19< nemo> I mean, something that impacts gameplay
20140221 23:45:36< nemo> that sometimes results in some review noticing, but, yeah, not on a major site
20140221 23:45:54< nemo> and, I don't think we are going to do Hedgewars 2.
20140221 23:45:59< nemo> Heck, we haven't even hit 1 yet
20140221 23:46:04< nemo> hm. maybe that would get us a review
20140221 23:46:42< _8680_> Gambit: You want to make all open-source games restructure their release processes — fairly dramatically — for… what, more reviews?
20140221 23:47:00< nemo> _8680_: just to stay on wikipedia
20140221 23:47:02< nemo> :)
20140221 23:47:12< nemo> Gambit: btw. didja see the graphic sheepluva whipped up?
20140221 23:47:30< nemo> Gambit: it is supposed to be the deletionists spinning the wikipedia globe clean, but I think it looks like a deletionist katamari :)
20140221 23:48:40< _8680_> nemo: I wasn’t referring to your game specifically; I was referring to “I think FOSS games have to start doing named expansions” and subsequent lines.
20140221 23:48:53< nemo> _8680_: eh. I'm assuming he's joking
20140221 23:49:11< _8680_> I doubt that, I’ve seen him mention this before.
20140221 23:49:14< nemo> hm
20140221 23:49:25< nemo> btw, are you guys on steam?
20140221 23:49:28< nemo> we've been thinking about it
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 22 00:00:32 2014