--- Log opened Wed Mar 05 00:00:21 2014
20140305 00:11:22-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20140305 00:12:47-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 00:13:06-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Client Quit]
20140305 00:15:12-!- justinzane [~justinzan@67.21.190.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 00:23:14< happygrue> shadowm: oops.  I guess I did.  Fine to revert it if you haven't already
20140305 00:24:12-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054062159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 00:24:21< Aishiko_laptop> happygrue, did what I did the other day?
20140305 00:24:25< shadowm> happygrue: No, as a rule of thumb I never revert other people's commits.
20140305 00:24:43< happygrue> I was not imagining it mattering between these release candidates
20140305 00:24:49< happygrue> but I guess technically it does
20140305 00:25:11< shadowm> In the release announcement we promised MP compatibility for betas and RCs unless fixing a bug requires otherwise.
20140305 00:25:20< happygrue> yep, I'll revert it
20140305 00:25:26< shadowm> You MP people should decide whether this counts as a bug or a feature.
20140305 00:25:58< happygrue> well, it's better that it goes into stable than it *not* going in, but it does break the RC compatibility
20140305 00:26:09< Aishiko_laptop> RC?
20140305 00:26:17< shadowm> We aren't in RC stage yet.
20140305 00:26:22< shadowm> Release Candidate.
20140305 00:27:05< shadowm> Let me put it like this: I personally don't care because the dev server is still a dead wasteland.
20140305 00:27:29< Aishiko_laptop> lol
20140305 00:27:44< Aishiko_laptop> yeah thats fun
20140305 00:28:09< shadowm> It does mean that people on 1.11.12 won't be able to play with people on 1.11.11 and 1.11.10, but that's a technicality. You should consider the cost/benefit relationship.
20140305 00:28:25< happygrue> yeah, I know that I couldn't make the change once we release and this just came up today as a potential issue.  I hadn't planned any more changes until the dev branch but I thought this would be nice go in, I forgot about the compatibility
20140305 00:29:03< happygrue> well, I would much rather have it in than not, so if no one actually objects I'll leave it in, but I admit I forgot I shouldn't have done it at this stage.
20140305 00:29:38-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.119.178] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 00:29:50< shadowm> However, it'd still be preferable if all the most important balancing changes that there's to make happen now that we can be a tad more flexible with the MP server and not in, say, 1.12.0 or later.
20140305 00:30:34< shadowm> After RC 1 is tagged you can consider MP to be liquid nitrogen-frozen.
20140305 00:31:55< shadowm> We still have as many releases as can be done in one month and a half before that, though.
20140305 00:32:03< happygrue> Okay.  I'll leave that commit in and freeze myself now.
20140305 00:32:22< happygrue> I do have some THoT commits to make left, but as they are scenario tweeks that isn't a problem, right?
20140305 00:32:46< shadowm> Yeah, not a problem unless they introduce new strings that weren't already part of their textdomain.
20140305 00:32:48< happygrue> I was waiting until I finished the last scenario to do them together.
20140305 00:32:50< happygrue> no
20140305 00:32:56< happygrue> just changing starting gold levels and such
20140305 00:33:13< shadowm> Oh, you are going to play the last scenario too? Good luck!
20140305 00:38:18< happygrue> XD
20140305 00:38:25< happygrue> there is a reason I haven't committed them yet...
20140305 00:38:42< happygrue> I've made "progress" on two different sittings now
20140305 00:39:41< Aishiko_laptop> I know that feeling happygrue 
20140305 00:43:19< happygrue> It is a large enough scenario that I see a rather noticable slowdown of the game on my somewhat old PC.
20140305 00:46:19< Aishiko_laptop> which scenario?
20140305 00:48:44< happygrue> The last one in THoT
20140305 00:49:14< Aishiko_laptop> and what sort of old pc? (specs, like the CPU/RAM, etc anything you care to share)
20140305 00:50:49< Aishiko_laptop> The Heir to the Throne right?
20140305 00:51:01< happygrue> Dual-Core Pentium @2.5 GHz and 2 GB of RAM
20140305 00:51:21< happygrue> That's HttT
20140305 00:51:48< happygrue> this is The Hammer of hursagan
20140305 00:51:52< happygrue> *Thursagan
20140305 00:51:58< happygrue> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Glossary
20140305 00:52:54< Aishiko_laptop> ohh so running it on the 2Gz single core with 4GB ram (32 bit CPU) might be more interesting?
20140305 00:54:04< happygrue> I'll upload a save if you'd like to try ;)
20140305 00:54:58< happygrue> It's not horrible, it's just noticable, compared to really snappy in all scenarios before that.
20140305 00:56:44< shadowm> Hmph. Back in the day I played Wesnoth on a 1.3 GHz Celeron with 256 MiB of RAM.
20140305 00:57:44< happygrue> I bet it was uphill both ways!
20140305 00:58:48< shadowm> The only campaign that ever gave me problems was NR.
20140305 00:59:21< shadowm> I don't remember if I moved to the 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 with 1 GiB of RAM before or after finishing NR.
20140305 00:59:47< Aishiko_laptop> happygrue, sure!
20140305 01:00:35< happygrue> I played on an old PC with 512 MB of RAM, I can't remember the CPU but it was just ingegrated graphics, but it was mostly fine.
20140305 01:00:59< happygrue> *integrated
20140305 01:01:09< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, so my dual P3 700 (later 1Ghz) with 1GB or Ram (PC133 or 1.5 of PC100 in 4 sticks)
20140305 01:01:12< shadowm> Both machines I mentioned also had integrated graphics. I deemed the fact irrelevant on account of Wesnoth's CPU-bound design.
20140305 01:02:24< shadowm> And nowadays I complain about Wesnoth's performance on a 3.9 GHz i7 with 16 GiB of RAM. Heh.
20140305 01:02:28< happygrue> Aishiko_laptop: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4pohf1i29a2t9p/game.gz
20140305 01:02:52-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 01:03:00< happygrue> though the unit aminations were also nowhere near what they are now
20140305 01:03:02< happygrue> among other things
20140305 01:03:09< Aishiko_laptop> thank you happygrue 
20140305 01:03:24-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 01:03:31< shadowm> Yeah, no animated terrains or standing unit animations in 1.0.x or 1.2.x.
20140305 01:03:54< happygrue> Aishiko_laptop: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xdpircgdg9eau2m/THoT-At_the_East_Gate_replay.gz
20140305 01:04:04< happygrue> here, that is the next largest scenario in the campaign, for reference
20140305 01:04:13< happygrue> you will probably notice a difference between the two ;)
20140305 01:05:07< Aishiko_laptop> I'll do it after my networking class is over
20140305 01:05:10< happygrue> oh, that's just a replay I guess
20140305 01:06:01< Aishiko_laptop> so I get to watch the mistro at work? or play I guess.
20140305 01:06:06< shadowm> Well, there were the animated flags on villages, but that's it.
20140305 01:06:31< shadowm> I think AI turns were also made more efficient at some point. The whole game used to freeze while the AI was busy moving units.
20140305 01:06:33< happygrue> ah, yes that's true.
20140305 01:06:45< happygrue> yeah
20140305 01:06:53< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, it still does sometimes depending on what's running on the system
20140305 01:07:18< happygrue> Aishiko_laptop: I don't have the game start save for some reason, I guess I saved over it.  Oh well.
20140305 01:07:42< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: Oh sure, I learned last night it was a bad idea to start and play a fresh session of Wesnoth with a busy HDD doing backups.
20140305 01:07:59-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 01:08:29< shadowm> Because every animation triggered for the first time has to load those images on the spot, and thus Wesnoth gets to compete with rsync for I/O.
20140305 01:09:40< happygrue> heh
20140305 01:09:43< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, mine was while the internet browser was open
20140305 01:26:16< Aishiko_laptop> so once its done a particular animation (like poisoned) it keeps a copy in mem for the next time its needed until you close the program?
20140305 01:27:44-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-247-45.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: bye]
20140305 01:28:46< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: Well, it enters images obtained with image::get_image()/the image::locator type in the image cache, including images that have been altered by image path functions (~RC(), ~BLIT(), ~FL(), etc.) -- until the image cache is cleared.
20140305 01:29:27< Aishiko_laptop> I figured that, but I don't know when that cache is cleared, a question to add to my ask list for mordante
20140305 01:29:57< shadowm> The image cache lives in the Wesnoth process' memory mappings and thus dies along with it on quit, but it may also be purged manually mid-game with the :debug :refresh console command, or (*IIRC*) when using F5 on the titlescreen.
20140305 01:30:50< Aishiko_laptop> OK thats good to know
20140305 01:31:03< shadowm> Okay, there's an image::flush_cache() function, you should be able to search for callers.
20140305 01:32:10< shadowm> For example, it seems that changing the game language from the titlescreen also purges the image cache.
20140305 01:33:09< shadowm> That's probably related to the image localization feature.
20140305 01:33:29-!- spoffy [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 01:35:07< Aishiko_laptop> ohh, thats a strange effect as the language should have nothing to do with the images
20140305 01:36:12< shadowm> You have noticed that the titlescreen map labels change with the translation, no?
20140305 01:36:53< shadowm> Well, at least the titlescreen logo does.
20140305 01:37:11< shadowm> Never mind the titlescreen map labels, nobody has translated them yet I guess.
20140305 01:37:17< Aishiko_laptop> no I've not I didn't look hard either but it makes sense
20140305 01:37:28< Aishiko_laptop> ohh maybe I should do that =P
20140305 01:37:48< shadowm> Portuguese has them translated already, actually.
20140305 01:38:26< Aishiko_laptop> are they part of the image or imposed over the image?
20140305 01:39:10< shadowm> The latter. I think. I know the image localization system exists and even made a couple of images for the Spanish translation, but the rest is a mystery to me.
20140305 01:39:15< Aishiko_laptop> well if they can change I'd think that its over the image
20140305 01:49:42-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 01:51:12-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 01:59:55-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.119.178] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
20140305 02:04:12-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 02:06:26-!- EliDupree [~quassel@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140305 02:07:47-!- EliDupree [~quassel@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:23:41-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 02:31:11-!- apoi [~andi@85-126-180-242.volume.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:32:21-!- un214 [~un214@2602:303:fcd0:ad29:224:8cff:fed2:ef57] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:37:47-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@cpe-065-191-176-226.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:40:07-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:42:25-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@95.73.190.205] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:42:35-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@95.73.190.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 02:44:05-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 02:44:38-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 02:46:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 02:47:22-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:48:51< Aishiko_laptop> hmm well the map names didn't change but the big logo at the top did
20140305 02:48:59-!- Samual [~dioteckte@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 02:49:02< Aishiko_laptop> when I changed languages
20140305 02:50:57< shadowm> Try Portuguese.
20140305 02:55:08-!- Samual [~dioteckte@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 02:57:30-!- sachith500_ [c0f80841@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.248.8.65] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 03:00:28< Aishiko_laptop> ohh I tried spanish I remembered wrong
20140305 03:01:29-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 03:02:27< Aishiko_laptop> ohh so it did change for the Portuguese (regardless of Brazil or not), I need to see what that has different
20140305 03:09:29-!- werlley [~werlley@187-41-166-97.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 03:13:57-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f5146d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 03:16:59-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f5146d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 03:16:59-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 03:17:02-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 03:18:06-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20140305 03:19:58-!- un214 [~un214@2602:303:fcd0:ad29:224:8cff:fed2:ef57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 03:41:40-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 03:41:50-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has quit [Client Quit]
20140305 03:59:33-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 04:00:13-!- sachith500_ [c0f80841@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.248.8.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140305 04:28:19-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 04:33:12-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 04:42:02-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 04:46:32-!- vorobeez [~quassel@85.142.148.12] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 04:53:51-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Quit: tomreyn]
20140305 05:25:51-!- vorobeez [~quassel@85.142.148.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 05:50:25-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@cpe-065-191-176-226.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 06:16:32-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 06:20:51-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140305 06:34:02< shadowm> I tripped the animation non-reentrance assertion check by creating a unit on a whole different hex while another was playing its recruit animation.
20140305 07:06:24-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 07:06:39-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 07:26:19< iceiceice> shadowm: hmm
20140305 07:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on master | 215 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140305 07:30:20< iceiceice> which line is that assertion do you know?
20140305 07:31:13< shadowm> The assertion message itself includes the file and line number.
20140305 07:31:34< shadowm> wesnoth: src/unit_animation.cpp:1416: void unit_animator::wait_for_end() const: Assertion `rpe || (false && "Reentered a unit animation. See bug #18921")' failed.
20140305 07:42:29-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 07:44:53-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 07:48:08-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.219.139.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 07:59:43-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 08:04:24-!- EliDupree_ [~quassel@66-189-34-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 08:04:41-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 08:06:06-!- Yukiria [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 08:09:48-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 08:11:09-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: EliDupree, iceiceice, vultraz
20140305 08:11:13-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: molgrum
20140305 08:11:13-!- Yukiria is now known as vultraz
20140305 08:15:58-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 08:15:58-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 08:19:09-!- Netsplit over, joins: iceiceice
20140305 08:26:48< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Are you familiarized with non-bug #19274? <https://gna.org/bugs/?19274>
20140305 08:29:32< shadowm> Coffee_irc: I said "non-bug", but this is actually a very important question.
20140305 08:36:47< fabi> wesbot: seen thunderstruck?
20140305 08:36:48< wesbot> fabi: The person with the nick thunderstruck last spoke 4d 16h ago.  10h 18m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message:
20140305 08:37:01< Coffee_irc> shadowm: yes, I am familiar with this stuff
20140305 08:37:11< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Okay, so I noticed my "fix" was "reverted".
20140305 08:37:27< shadowm> Did someone make an exception for sound in frames in 1.11.x?
20140305 08:37:45< Coffee_irc> shadowm: tere is still an exisitng bug, but now not with that
20140305 08:37:53< Coffee_irc> *there
20140305 08:37:56< shadowm> That doesn't answer my question.
20140305 08:38:12< Coffee_irc> shadowm: the sound stuff should be fixed in terms of timing
20140305 08:38:28< shadowm> I'm not asking about the WML, I'm asking about how the engine handles that WML.
20140305 08:38:30< Coffee_irc> the higwayman and such lines timings were completely redone
20140305 08:38:50< Coffee_irc> shadowm: before you had to set a duration=1 for the sound frames
20140305 08:38:53< Coffee_irc> now not so
20140305 08:39:12< Coffee_irc> it automatically sets the duration of an unspecified frame to 1 by default
20140305 08:39:30< Coffee_irc> this should eliminate the issue
20140305 08:39:44< shadowm> But now the sound frame goes first.
20140305 08:39:50< Coffee_irc> ?
20140305 08:39:52< Coffee_irc> really?
20140305 08:39:59< shadowm> How does what you say eliminate the issue if there is no silent padding frame?
20140305 08:40:25< Coffee_irc> shadowm: the sound padding shouldn't be needed anymore
20140305 08:40:31< Coffee_irc> I made some changes for that specifically
20140305 08:40:52< shadowm> Okay, only for sound?
20140305 08:41:04< Coffee_irc> shadowm: not only for sound
20140305 08:41:14< Coffee_irc> this affects also the leadership animations
20140305 08:41:15< shadowm> Then why does it still break with image (and not with halo)?
20140305 08:41:34< Coffee_irc> ah, images are handled slightly differently
20140305 08:41:55< Coffee_irc> images will preload the first frame if a defense animation plays at an earlier time
20140305 08:42:11< Coffee_irc> this is the way it has always been
20140305 08:42:27< shadowm> Yes, I know, I was told that in the bug report.
20140305 08:42:44< shadowm> But I still can't see how it really makes sense for anything other than the base [frame].
20140305 08:42:45< Coffee_irc> I thought all that was fixed
20140305 08:43:00< Coffee_irc> can you give an example of a broken unit on git HEAD?
20140305 08:43:21< shadowm> No, because it's not a mainline unit type's animation that was giving me a migraine earlier.
20140305 08:43:38< Coffee_irc> can you post the WML
20140305 08:43:42< shadowm> I ultimately resorted to using halo= instead of image=.
20140305 08:43:52< Coffee_irc> it could be a PEBCAC issue ;)
20140305 08:44:42< shadowm> What's that acronym supposed to stand for?
20140305 08:45:32< shadowm> Here is the WML: http://pastebin.com/idPyM3CR  Remove the duration=1 padding frame and you get fire-burst-small-1.png far earlier than it should be, since the main frame's start_time is -300.
20140305 08:45:38< Coffee_irc> http://www.internetslang.com/PEBCAC-meaning-definition.asp :)
20140305 08:47:50< Coffee_irc> shadowm: yes, this is expected behavior
20140305 08:48:09< Coffee_irc> here you should have padding on the burst frame
20140305 08:48:29< Coffee_irc> that is still how we do it for frames with images
20140305 08:48:32< shadowm> To clarify: This reminded me of that bug report that I filed long ago that ended up with a Won't Fix status, and I later figured out that _somehow_ the sound= issue for which I originally filed it isn't present in master in spite of my fix having been dropped at some point. Hence the questions trying to get an answer for this incongruous behavior between image, halo, and sound.
20140305 08:49:18< Coffee_irc> this is because the image should be used before the animation starts to display _something_ when an opponent defense image is active or another frame is being displayed
20140305 08:49:25< Coffee_irc> the sound is separate
20140305 08:50:00< shadowm> Yaeh, that all makes sense (even though that makes image and halo mutually incongruous).
20140305 08:50:08< Coffee_irc> well...
20140305 08:50:12< shadowm> Except I'm unsure why this is the case for secondary frames too.
20140305 08:50:32< Coffee_irc> halo works because although the image is displayed before the start time, it is a null image (without any specified)
20140305 08:50:52< Coffee_irc> shadowm: secondary frames are treated the same as primary frames
20140305 08:50:59< Coffee_irc> they are all treated equally
20140305 08:51:14< Coffee_irc> so there are no secondary frames in practise
20140305 08:51:35< shadowm> Hm.
20140305 08:51:49< Coffee_irc> I blame boucman_work :P
20140305 08:51:53< shadowm> Okay.
20140305 08:52:10< Coffee_irc> but it actually works out well in some cases
20140305 08:52:14< shadowm> Is this documented?
20140305 08:52:46< boucman_work> question for the local animation historian ?
20140305 08:53:15< shadowm> Ah yes, it is documented... in two comment blocks hidden here: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML#Example_Syntax
20140305 08:53:49< Coffee_irc> ah, good, I put them in :)
20140305 08:54:06< shadowm> It's very easy to miss both the comments and their implications.
20140305 08:55:07< shadowm> The "Shortcuts, tricks and quirks" would probably an ideal place for _someone_ to explain why empty duration=1 frames are sometimes necessary.
20140305 08:55:14< shadowm> *be an
20140305 08:55:16< Coffee_irc> boucman_work: the animations playing before the begin_time a static frame is still not really documented, but has always been intended I think
20140305 08:55:27< shadowm> *section   (oh gods I guess I'm hungry)
20140305 08:56:01< shadowm> So, if I insert an empty frame with no duration, is it automatically duration=1 ?
20140305 08:56:08< Coffee_irc> shadowm: yes
20140305 08:56:26< Coffee_irc> or... removed from the game :P
20140305 08:56:33< Coffee_irc> if there is nothing else
20140305 08:56:48< boucman_work> well, "always" in your time frame, not in mine :P 
20140305 08:56:50< shadowm> I mean, assuming it's followed by a frame with actual contents and duration.
20140305 08:57:00< boucman_work> but yes, that has been the case for longer than any relevant history
20140305 08:57:35 * boucman_work is not sure what happens if you put a duration of 0, it might work...
20140305 08:57:57< Coffee_irc> boucman_work: I think duration 0 frames are deleted by the game
20140305 08:58:04< shadowm> Yeah, nothing here says what duration= defaults to if unspecified and not defined by the image sets given.
20140305 08:58:30< boucman_work> Coffee_irc: that is probably true most of the time, but might not be for a duration 0 at start of anim... worth testing/checking
20140305 08:58:52< boucman_work> shadowm oooh, I know the answer to that one :)
20140305 08:59:17< boucman_work> answer : it's compilcated :)
20140305 08:59:45< shadowm> Hm. :(
20140305 08:59:51< Coffee_irc> lol
20140305 09:00:12< Coffee_irc> boucman_work: that was the case in the past, now I changed it to default to 1 if unspecified ;)
20140305 09:00:32< Coffee_irc> to save issues from arising
20140305 09:00:36< shadowm> Okay, using duration=0 in that WML (or leaving it unspecified) for the first frame... seems to work?
20140305 09:01:02< boucman_work> Coffee_irc: oh, and that didn't break anything ? awesome
20140305 09:01:07-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:01:07-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-150-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:01:07-!- molgrum [~molgrum@212.85.89.43] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:01:19< Coffee_irc> boucman_work: well you are supposed to specify it really
20140305 09:01:20< shadowm> Although I don't think I could say for sure how long the whole subanimation is actually taking.
20140305 09:01:41< boucman_work> shadowm: the proper test is to have the frame 0 being a very obvious frame and check that when it should not be displayed it is not displayed
20140305 09:02:15< boucman_work> Coffee_irc: historically, no. Animations had a begin and an end time, and frames were supposed to find their duration by themselves
20140305 09:02:26< boucman_work> originally, you couldn't even specify per-frame durations
20140305 09:02:29< Coffee_irc> that's right
20140305 09:02:32< shadowm> Well, it is obvious enough. What I really want to know is whether duration=0 doesn't actually mean duration=1 internally or something.
20140305 09:02:36< boucman_work> but it's a ggood thing you got rid of that
20140305 09:02:49< shadowm> Oh wait, yeah, I could try placing an actual image with duration=0
20140305 09:02:52< Coffee_irc> shadowm: they are different
20140305 09:02:56-!- bumbadadabum is now known as Guest78814
20140305 09:03:12< Coffee_irc> shadowm: but duration=1 and duration=0 are so similar I think you'd have trouble differentiating them
20140305 09:03:40< shadowm> Yeah, I mean, aside from the fact that placing an actual image as the first frame with duration=0 causes the image to show up since... it's the first frame.
20140305 09:03:49< Coffee_irc> this is why I made the sound play as a separate type of frame
20140305 09:03:59< Coffee_irc> this makes it start at the exact correct time
20140305 09:04:11< Coffee_irc> with the sound macros
20140305 09:04:15< shadowm> So, as the last frame, I do see the duration=0 image.
20140305 09:04:24< Coffee_irc> yes
20140305 09:04:36< shadowm> For a very brief instant.
20140305 09:04:54< Coffee_irc> you see that because the defense animation goes longer and it has to display something for the attack at that time
20140305 09:05:14< Coffee_irc> if the defense animation was very long, it would stay on there for longer
20140305 09:06:02< Coffee_irc> if the defense animation is shorter it will still play for a fraction of a second
20140305 09:06:16< Coffee_irc> as fast as your video card can swap the images and the internal clock goes
20140305 09:06:35< shadowm> I sandwiched a duration=0 frame between two actual frames with contents and longer duration, it still shows up.
20140305 09:06:35< Coffee_irc> internal wesnoth clock that is for the game loop
20140305 09:06:48< Coffee_irc> shadowm: see above ;)
20140305 09:06:57< shadowm> But they are part of the same animation.
20140305 09:07:11< Coffee_irc> the animation engine will always display changes
20140305 09:07:16< Coffee_irc> even if they are very quick
20140305 09:07:31< shadowm> Okay, so essentially duration=0 has the same effect as duration=1?
20140305 09:07:39< Coffee_irc> the video card will swap the image and show it to you for one wesnoth tick + as long as the video card takes to changes it
20140305 09:07:52< Coffee_irc> shadowm: because of the ticks in wesntoh, yes
20140305 09:07:55< Coffee_irc> *wesnoth
20140305 09:08:08< Coffee_irc> they are equivalent
20140305 09:09:06< shadowm> Okay. But for animation timing purposes, duration=0 frames don't count or what?
20140305 09:09:27< Coffee_irc> yes, for timing purposes they don't count
20140305 09:09:42< shadowm> I mean, if I have a duration=0 frame in between two duration=100 frames and I'm at 1.0x animation speed, the whole animation will take 200 ms instead of 201?
20140305 09:09:48< Coffee_irc> but 1 millisecond is pretty similar to 0 milliseconds
20140305 09:10:07< Coffee_irc> even at 0.001 speed
20140305 09:10:12< shadowm> Then again, I believe SDL only promises timer granularity up to 10 ms.
20140305 09:10:52< shadowm> Not sure if this uses that functionality, though.
20140305 09:11:00< Coffee_irc> wesnoth only goes down to 0.25 speed
20140305 09:11:14< Coffee_irc> and you can't tell the difference
20140305 09:12:12< Coffee_irc> for most times you don't specify there is no strict timer benefit to getting it exact
20140305 09:12:22< Coffee_irc> even it it did make a noticeable difference
20140305 09:12:40< Coffee_irc> if you use the sound macros, the finish time doesn't matter as it is a separate type of frame
20140305 09:12:40< shadowm> Anyway, this is too confusing so I'll just ask whether this is guaranteed to work now under any conditions and in the future, to preclude [burst_frame] from getting rendered earlier than appropriate: http://pastebin.com/vqGK5f6A
20140305 09:13:45< Coffee_irc> shadowm: if it works now, it should continue to work
20140305 09:14:10< shadowm> Okay great!
20140305 09:14:22< shadowm> vultraz: You should probably add that pastebin to the list of things to tell bumbadadabum.
20140305 09:14:30 * shadowm is not here now.
20140305 09:15:44< Coffee_irc> boucman_work: I'm satisfied we've done well there, another flustered but eventually happy animation WML user :)
20140305 09:16:36< boucman_work> yes, the problem with animations is that the problem is not simple, so the syntax has to be a bit complex. you can't have both simple and powerfull
20140305 09:17:26< Coffee_irc> yeah, the documentation could probably do with a bit of love at some point
20140305 09:18:28< Coffee_irc> I volunteer in his absensce bumbadadabum for this ;)
20140305 09:19:25-!- Guest78814 is now known as bumbadadabum
20140305 09:19:47< bumbadadabum> wow why doesn't it highlight me on my username
20140305 09:20:23< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: probably because you loged in as a guest :P
20140305 09:20:32< bumbadadabum> idk why it didn't identify me
20140305 09:20:54< Coffee_irc> but that's pretty funny then
20140305 09:21:01< Coffee_irc> I didn't think you were heree
20140305 09:21:09< bumbadadabum> shadowm: Wasn't the problem you're describing fixed a while back?
20140305 09:21:46< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: yeah, the problem with the sound was fixed a while back (twice, broken the the first time, and fixed again)
20140305 09:22:06< bumbadadabum> Coffee_irc: Well the duration=1 frames being needed
20140305 09:22:16< Coffee_irc> yes, those too
20140305 09:26:07< Coffee_irc> just like to throw out there wesnoth 1.12 candidates look to be shaping up well
20140305 09:26:52< shadowm> bumbadadabum: BURST_FRAME_FAERIE_MYSTIC_FIRE is missing the magic padding frame.
20140305 09:26:57< shadowm> bumbadadabum: In EoC.
20140305 09:27:16< bumbadadabum> shadowm: That's not needed anymore IIRC
20140305 09:27:16< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Betas, not candidates. We aren't there yet.
20140305 09:27:30< Coffee_irc> shadowm: yeah I know there are still bugs to be fixed
20140305 09:27:41< shadowm> bumbadadabum: No, it is still needed for actual image frames (as opposed to sound-only frames), which is why the conversation above took place.
20140305 09:28:00< bumbadadabum> I think also image frame
20140305 09:28:04< bumbadadabum> *frames
20140305 09:28:16< Coffee_irc> bumbadadabum: they are special :P
20140305 09:28:28< shadowm> bumbadadabum: Come on man, I spent hours teting this.
20140305 09:28:33< bumbadadabum> you did?
20140305 09:28:34< bumbadadabum> oh
20140305 09:28:39< bumbadadabum> uhh
20140305 09:28:40< Coffee_irc> but it is progress on before
20140305 09:28:50< bumbadadabum> oh, does it use image=
20140305 09:29:06< shadowm> Yes, it uses image= instead of halo=.
20140305 09:29:16< bumbadadabum> shouldn't it use halo=
20140305 09:29:32< Coffee_irc> well, actually that is a fair point
20140305 09:29:32< shadowm> We need to use image= if we want progressive alpha or offset.
20140305 09:29:56< Coffee_irc> shadowm: ah, no you don't
20140305 09:29:57< shadowm> There's progressive halo_x and halo_y but it's not ideal for that kind of situation for obvious reasons.
20140305 09:30:24< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Eh, okay, maybe halos use the frame's offset, actually, but I'm pretty sure there's no progressive alpha for halos.
20140305 09:31:43< Coffee_irc> shadowm: you are right from the documentation
20140305 09:32:48< bumbadadabum> shadowm: I honestly thought it would use halo=
20140305 09:32:59< bumbadadabum> well I fixed it now
20140305 09:34:01-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 09:35:08-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:35:08-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 09:35:08-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:35:33< Coffee_irc> oh well, as long as it all works I assume it is fine
20140305 09:52:44-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:52:45-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 09:52:45-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:52:56-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:53:58-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 09:55:13-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 09:55:15-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 09:57:48-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 09:59:53-!- spoffy [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:03:12-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 10:12:06-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:13:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 10:13:38-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:16:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:22:08-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:22:18-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 10:30:18-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 10:48:23-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 10:51:04-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 10:51:06-!- grzywa [~grzywacz@89-66-1-28.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 10:53:26-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:01:30-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-150-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: bye]
20140305 11:02:27-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-150-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:20:40-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@2001:738:5404:192:9e4e:36ff:fe7c:534c] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:32:11-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:41:35-!- irker913 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:41:35< irker913> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master be32749e12b8 / src/display.cpp: Fix typo in comment. http://git.io/sARVbQ
20140305 11:41:37< irker913> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 6040bfbe8ba5 / / (10 files in 7 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/y6eL4w
20140305 11:46:19-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 11:50:22-!- enchilad1 [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:50:34-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:54:54-!- DHost [~Pcy@pvs.pnymat.fr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:55:54-!- enchilado [~enchilado@defocus/yummy/enchilado] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 11:56:13-!- Fortescue [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oiiqcuvagfwarvko] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 11:56:31-!- Octalot [~noct@31.185.149.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 11:56:41-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:56:49-!- DHost_ [~Pcy@pvs.pnymat.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 11:56:49-!- Fortescue [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 11:56:51-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 11:56:52-!- Fortescue [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/session] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 11:56:52-!- Fortescue [sid1929@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tuhkylhennsurjzg] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:00:22-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@2001:738:5404:192:9e4e:36ff:fe7c:534c] has quit [Quit: Vannak idők, mikor menni kell]
20140305 12:00:39-!- EdB_ [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:05:00-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 12:12:37-!- enchilad1 is now known as enchilado
20140305 12:15:40-!- spoffy [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140305 12:16:47-!- grzywa [~grzywacz@89-66-1-28.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 12:18:15-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.121.147] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:21:38-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:22:13-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: DCW]
20140305 12:27:57-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@2001:738:5404:192:9e4e:36ff:fe7c:534c] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:35:11-!- aquileia [52d4193f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.63] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:38:41< aquileia> shadowm: Just going through the logs. If you want a similar mainline example, look at the Alien_Body in UtBS. No idea if it is similar enough, though.
20140305 12:39:18< aquileia> line 145
20140305 12:40:05< aquileia> It uses halo, though, like it is supposed to
20140305 12:54:24-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@2001:738:5404:192:9e4e:36ff:fe7c:534c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 12:57:38-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:58:44-!- sachith500|2 [~kvirc@112.134.86.70] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 12:59:49-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.121.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 13:08:08-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 13:31:51-!- bumbadadabum_ [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 13:31:52-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 13:37:41-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f048139194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 14:09:43-!- mattsc [~mattsc@207.230.251.234] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 14:16:01-!- Velensk [~Velensk@cpe-75-187-86-211.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 14:16:11< Velensk> Does anyone know where the definitions for the race names are?
20140305 14:16:31< zookeeper> core/units.cfg ?
20140305 14:18:44< Velensk> I checked there, it uses the macro but I didn't find the definitions
20140305 14:18:52< Velensk> macros*
20140305 14:19:06< zookeeper> oh, you mean the random unit names.
20140305 14:19:18< Velensk> yeah
20140305 14:19:23< zookeeper> core/macros/names.cfg then
20140305 14:19:41< zookeeper> i don't know how you survive without grep or similar though
20140305 14:20:16< Velensk> thanks, I'm surprised I didn't see that.
20140305 14:24:59-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 14:29:54< mattsc> shadowm, iceiceice: yeah, in a way the animation reentry assert made things worse. IIRC, with the segfault I only needed to worry about not shift-k-ing the same unit twice when killing a bunch of units. Now it asserts also when a different unit is still in its animation.
20140305 14:30:04< mattsc> But hopefully this is only a temporary situation anyway.
20140305 14:41:39-!- irker913 [~irker@ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20140305 15:10:01-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 15:10:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.52.202] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:11:51-!- exciton [chuck-the-@77.51.52.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 15:13:41-!- mattsc [~mattsc@207.230.251.234] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140305 15:15:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:20:01-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 15:20:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:20:58-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:32:09-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:33:41-!- vorobeez [~quassel@85.142.148.12] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:33:41-!- EdB_ [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 15:36:18< vorobeez> mattsc: hello. I have a question: where i can see how aspects and goals influence on CAs in code?
20140305 15:38:02< mattsc> vorobeez: hi.  There's no general rule, I think.  Change into src/ai/ and then do a grep for the name of the aspect or whatever you are looking for.
20140305 15:38:05-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 15:39:38< vorobeez> mattsc: thank you.
20140305 15:40:35< mattsc> vorobeez: If you are looking for something specific, let me know and I might be able to give you a pointer, but as a general rule that is how I do it.
20140305 15:40:52< thunderstruck> fabi: You were looking for me?
20140305 15:41:55-!- aranjuda [011630cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.1.22.48.207] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:46:06< vorobeez> mattsc: i trying to understand what need ai for make global decisions. E.g. in wiki-page (http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC_Ideas_AI_Global_strategy) write that "The AI should learn to adapt its strategy depending on the balance of forces and the current time of day.'. I don't understand what is the problem with this point, aspect 'time' exist. Is difficult change argression for example with different times? 
20140305 15:46:16< fabi> hi thunderstruck
20140305 15:47:05< fabi> thunderstruck: https://gna.org/bugs/?21748 Are you the right person to whom the bug is to be assigned?
20140305 15:47:32< thunderstruck> fabi: Yes, I'm. Thanks for pointing it out.
20140305 15:48:00< fabi> thunderstruck: I am not sure, is the test wrong or is it the implementation?
20140305 15:48:45< thunderstruck> fabi: I can't really tell without looking. It could be the test. I think I made some changes to implementation which could've broken tests
20140305 15:48:53< thunderstruck> But I forgot about them at a time.
20140305 15:49:26< thunderstruck> What's more, these tests might have to be just removed. That was my first attempt at unit testing and it ended up like a mess.
20140305 15:49:59< mattsc> vorobeez: well, Crab_ is really the person to talk to what exactly he meant when setting up this project, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have much time at the moment.  So let me try to say some things.
20140305 15:50:04< fabi> thunderstruck: Fixing the tests would be cool. I like to have travis nag about failing unit tests after every commit. But that means that there needs the tests need to work first.
20140305 15:50:35-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 15:50:39< mattsc> As you are saying, changing the aspects in WML based on time of day is trivial, and many campaigns do this already.
20140305 15:50:53< thunderstruck> fabi: It's rather inconvenienet to test some things, because of some dependencies.
20140305 15:51:24< thunderstruck> As far as I know, Wesnoth wasn't written with unit testing in mind.
20140305 15:51:35< mattsc> I think the goal is to come up with a strategy for the AI to do this automatically.  And obviously just changing aggression/caution based on time of day is not what Crab_ is imagining here, that wouldn't be a full GSoC project.
20140305 15:52:29< fabi> thunderstruck: Please tell me more about your concerns.
20140305 15:52:51< mattsc> So part of the project (or project preparation during the application period), would be to come up with a plan for what would make sense for the AI to do.  And the project itself (during the summer) is then to implement that.
20140305 15:53:16< mattsc> ... and what is doable with a reasonable effort.
20140305 15:53:41< mattsc> vorobeez: does that make sense as a general guideline?  The details are, of course, much more complicated.
20140305 15:54:05< thunderstruck> fabi: Take a look at test_mp_connect.cpp file. I had to take care of bunch of stuff just to start writing actual tests.
20140305 15:54:32< thunderstruck> fabi: That was tedious and I remember I got some strange bugs at one point.
20140305 15:57:50< vorobeez> mattsc: yes, i think that is make sence. And i understand that changing agression is not GSoC project), therefore i search information and try undestand what is the points for making global decision. Thank you very much for your help
20140305 15:58:01< mattsc> vorobeez: check out the IRC log of Feb 13:  http://www.wesnoth.org/irclogs/2014/02/%23wesnoth-dev.2014-02-13.log
20140305 15:58:11< fabi> thunderstruck: Unit tests are designed to test a "unit" which means a class in java. In c++ it is more difficult. Whenever your "unit" is not working well on its own the unit test is most likely not the best test method.
20140305 15:58:11< mattsc> Starting at 20140213 18:10:59
20140305 15:58:28< mattsc> vorobeez: that's essentially all I know about what Crab_ had in mind  :|
20140305 15:59:33< vorobeez> mattsc: i tryed search some information to communicate with Crab_ but nothing happend
20140305 16:00:09< fabi> thunderstruck: But there are a lot of classes in our codebase for whose the unit test work well.
20140305 16:00:24-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 16:01:04< mattsc> vorobeez: yeah, I know, I have too.  He's usually very responsive when he's here or to forum PMs, but he has not replied to things much in the last couple weeks.  I assume he's just very busy with other things.  That happens.
20140305 16:01:24< mattsc> We'll just have to keep pinging him, and in the meantime I will try what I can to help answer your questinos.
20140305 16:02:08< mattsc> As for this project, this is definitely more of a research project than a implement-this-feature project.  So part of your proposal would be to come up with a good plan how to do that.
20140305 16:04:59-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@p4FC5F39A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:05:19-!- bumbadadabum_ is now known as bumbadadabum
20140305 16:05:21< vorobeez> mattsc: Thank you so much. I hope i have time to formulate a precise plan for project. I don't have a full presentation of how work ai. Now i will go to wiki and git to fix it (= 
20140305 16:06:54< mattsc> vorobeez: no problem.  If you have a question, just post it here and I will get to it when I have time.  I do read the logs, so just ask whether I am online or not.
20140305 16:07:23< mattsc> ... and depending on what it is, somebody else might reply in the meantime.
20140305 16:07:50< vorobeez> mattsc: ok (=
20140305 16:07:50< vorobeez> thanks
20140305 16:08:21< Duthlet> hi, I'm new to irc. Is there anyone to talk to for general "problems" I have with the dev version?
20140305 16:09:13< zookeeper> no one in particular; you can/should just describe the problem you're having and see if anyone who knows about it is present (and prepare for a potentially long wait too, timezones and all).
20140305 16:09:51< Duthlet> I posted some stuff already in the 1.11.8 thread on the forums, but didn't get a response, but I also have two new things to bring up
20140305 16:10:58-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 16:12:15-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:12:35-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:12:45-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 16:12:45-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:13:28< Duthlet> I updated my wesnoth via git pull today, and wanted to see if an old bug still exists (seems to be fixed). To test I needed to start a game with 3 clients on the server. All but the host crashed upon starting the game. I got it working by reverting the last change of game_display.cpp
20140305 16:15:12< fabi> Duthlet: Would be nice to give a link to the commit in question.
20140305 16:17:07< Duthlet> do you mean something like this? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/eb9274bd4c78a5f9a86bc9e0bf748f701d81e6b1#diff-5c138a2007c85a5d9f9e994830025ca9
20140305 16:19:29< fabi> Duthlet: Yes, exactly.
20140305 16:19:48< fabi> Duthlet: If you would fill a bug report at bugs.wesnoth.org everything would be perfect :-)
20140305 16:27:26< Aishiko_laptop> when I play sometimes I get "error ai/actions: Return value of AI ACTION was not checked. This may cause bugs!"  at the command line
20140305 16:28:26< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: that's fine, you can just ignore those.
20140305 16:29:39< Aishiko_laptop> mattsc, I thought as much, but I was thinking about looking into it after I complete my latest attempt at a useful patch =)
20140305 16:30:17< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: sure - getting rid of those would certainly not be a bad thing.
20140305 16:30:19< happygrue> Duthlet: and thanks for coming on, it is REALLY helpful to have people testing the development branch in advance of the stable release.  :D
20140305 16:33:28< happygrue> You can also lurk in #wesnoth-mp, which is a good place to chat about multiplayer stuff and ideas.
20140305 16:36:38< Duthlet> happygrue: I always liked to test stuff, but this place feels so weird without people playing in the background ;)
20140305 16:37:01< happygrue> yeah, it is very empty.
20140305 16:37:19< Duthlet> fabi: I filed a bug report
20140305 16:37:30< happygrue> I have been thinking about putting a call out to regular players who do a lot of UMC stuff to come test their favorites on the dev server
20140305 16:37:38< happygrue> so that if there are bugs we don't know of it is tested
20140305 16:37:48< happygrue> so stuff doesn't all break when stable is released ;)
20140305 16:37:49-!- mordante [~mordante@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:37:50-!- mordante [~mordante@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 16:37:50-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:38:05< mordante> servus
20140305 16:38:30< Duthlet> Btw is there a way to join the dev server with a trunk version?
20140305 16:38:49< aranjuda> What is the answer to the GNU mailinglist anti-spam question?
20140305 16:38:50< aranjuda> What VCS has its name inspired from a British slang/insult?
20140305 16:39:06< aranjuda> I don't know what a VCS is, nor do I know about British slang.
20140305 16:39:15< Duthlet> there's probably a link in the question
20140305 16:39:16< vultraz> Git
20140305 16:39:17< happygrue> there is a development server that you connect to with a trunk checkout, you would like to connect to the 1.11.10 server with your trunk checkout?
20140305 16:39:30< vultraz> that's the answer
20140305 16:39:33< aranjuda> Thanks
20140305 16:39:38< aranjuda> version control system oh
20140305 16:39:40< mordante> I thought the previous question was a lot easier
20140305 16:39:47< aranjuda> I thought it was related to a VCR!
20140305 16:39:58< sachith500|2> haha is this about the question
20140305 16:39:59< Duthlet> happygrue: yes (it's 1.11.11 now though)
20140305 16:40:08< happygrue> right, right, so it is ;)
20140305 16:40:13< happygrue> the times, they are a changing!
20140305 16:40:36< mordante> good point shadowm, will add it
20140305 16:41:15< mordante> fabi, why is https://gna.org/bugs/?21745 assigned to me?
20140305 16:41:50< Duthlet> oftentimes there aren't any changes that should hamper compatibility, so it'd be nice to have/know a way to connect to the current dev version server
20140305 16:42:54< happygrue> you can do it, I think just use the IP of the server... let me see if I can dig it up
20140305 16:44:03< Duthlet> I also know of a timer bug and a solution, should I file a bug report or is there a faster way for fixing it?
20140305 16:45:09< happygrue> if you know who is likely to fix it you could ping them here, but filing a bug report is best usually
20140305 16:45:12< happygrue> (or do both)
20140305 16:45:24< mordante> shadowm, added the title
20140305 16:45:49< Aishiko_laptop> Duthlet, there isn't you have to google it or ask in here
20140305 16:46:05-!- Taqi [~Taqi@gateway/tor-sasl/taqi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 16:46:50< Duthlet> Aishiko_laptop: that's really evil, I got a link to wikipedia in my question for the bug tracker :)
20140305 16:47:08< mattsc> Duthlet: thanks for filing the bug report.  The person who authored that commit is involution on the bug tracker, so I assigned it to him for the time being.
20140305 16:47:18< mordante> Aishiko_laptop, the cache is also cleared when the ToD changes and further indeed look in the source
20140305 16:47:29< mattsc> Also, he's iceiceice here, so you might want to wait for him and ping him directly later.
20140305 16:47:37< Velensk> BTW, for the dev version it's currently possible to start a game before each player has picked their faction, is this intended?
20140305 16:47:41< mordante> Aishiko_laptop, and the cache has a fixed size, so images will be removed when not used for a longer time
20140305 16:47:43< Aishiko_laptop> Duthlet, took me 20 seconds to do and I didn't design it =P
20140305 16:47:54< happygrue> Duthlet: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Multiplayerservers
20140305 16:48:02< happygrue> can try that
20140305 16:48:38< Duthlet> unfortunately that doesn't help me
20140305 16:48:50< Aishiko_laptop> mordante, thank you, Sat I'm going to try and follow an image from creation (recruitment/etc) through the process to display it
20140305 16:49:05< vorobeez> mattsc: so 'looking globaly and changing future behavior..' sounds interesting. I don't quite understand all of things, for example, what's problem with this point: "checking if something useful can be done depending on our total villages controlled ". That means some of CAs would be depending of number of villages?
20140305 16:49:22< Duthlet> it shows port 15000 for dev server but leads me to trunk server if i enter that
20140305 16:49:29< mordante> Aishiko_laptop, ok, I don't think it is required to understand for your project, but can't hurt
20140305 16:49:36< happygrue> yep
20140305 16:49:38< happygrue> so I see
20140305 16:49:56< mordante> Aishiko_laptop, I think understanding the cache is most important for you
20140305 16:50:32-!- sachith500|2 [~kvirc@112.134.86.70] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/]
20140305 16:50:35< happygrue> Soliton: what is the best way to connect to the development release server (1.11.11) with a trunk client?
20140305 16:50:49< Aishiko_laptop> then I'll spend the weekend trying to learn all I can about the cache
20140305 16:50:57< vorobeez> mattsc: this is bad question. But i can not explain it differently)
20140305 16:53:54< Velensk> Did anyone catch my question?
20140305 16:54:30< happygrue> Velensk: I didn't, but that sounds like a bug
20140305 16:54:41< happygrue> I can't imagine that would be a good thing for any reason.
20140305 16:55:16< mattsc> vorobeez: yes, something like that.  For example, it could mean that at a bad time of day for the AI, it does not attack but tries to keep the enemy from stealing its villages.  Are tries to steal the enemies villages more aggressively than it would otherwise.
20140305 16:55:17< Velensk> alright, I'll report it then
20140305 16:55:44< mattsc> s/Are/Or
20140305 16:56:26-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 16:56:28< vorobeez> mattsc: ai put together some of global aspects and changing future strategy. At this moment Ai looks to future or not?
20140305 16:56:43< mattsc> It does not
20140305 16:57:35< Aishiko_laptop> so the idea is to add a chess like looking ahead X rounds/turns with some sort of plan
20140305 16:58:10< vorobeez> mattsc: hm...my plan at the monet deduce what are passible global ascpect/goals may to influence to AI. Does it make sence?
20140305 16:58:38< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: no, that's impossible
20140305 16:58:49< mattsc> Well, not theoretically impossible, but practically.
20140305 16:59:35< mattsc> vorobeez: yes, that sounds good to me.
20140305 17:00:07< vorobeez> chees like strategy will have an incredible number of possible actions i think
20140305 17:00:10< Aishiko_laptop> I guess I miss understood
20140305 17:00:21< mattsc> vorobeez: it doesn't even have to be an adjustable aspect.  _Any_ strategy for the AI to do this would be good, even if it's always the same for the time being.
20140305 17:01:21< mattsc> vorobeez, Aishiko_laptop: yes, that's right.  There are just too many possible moves.  Take that in combination with the outcome of attacks not being deterministic, it simply becomes infeasible.
20140305 17:01:24< Aishiko_laptop> well I mean more in general terms, like gather villages for the first 2 turns unless the user gets close that sort of thing
20140305 17:02:15< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: yes, I think that's more along the lines of what Crab_ was thinking.
20140305 17:02:48-!- Velensk [~Velensk@cpe-75-187-86-211.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140305 17:02:53< Aishiko_laptop> but, I know nothing about AIs and I courtesy to your judgement
20140305 17:04:35< vorobeez> mattsc: what do you mean by 'adjustable aspect'. I don't quite understand this sentence.
20140305 17:05:18< Aishiko_laptop> I think he means it doesn't change by the situation or scenario?
20140305 17:06:28< Aishiko_laptop> vorobeez, ^^
20140305 17:06:55< mattsc> vorobeez: I mean that you do not need to give the scenario designer a parameter that can be adjusted from WML, at least not at the beginning.
20140305 17:08:11-!- boucman_work [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140305 17:08:38< vorobeez> some kind of prepared element of strategy? (by default)
20140305 17:09:28< mattsc> As a starting point, yes.  But it really depends on what you are trying to do.  This might make sense for some things, and not for others.
20140305 17:09:57< mattsc> I'm just saying that you do not _have to_ assume that it has to be configurable by WML.
20140305 17:11:41< vorobeez> mattsc: i understand. I rad many wiki page about WML. I need to free my mind from this thing. Think outside the box)
20140305 17:12:43< vorobeez> mattsc, Aishiko_laptop: thank you for explaining and help.
20140305 17:12:59< mattsc> vorobeez: actually, you want to think inside the box.  Inside the black box that is the AI.  ;)
20140305 17:13:37< mattsc> vorobeez: but yes.  And no worries, I hope it helps.
20140305 17:13:49< vorobeez> mattsc: hah, that's right :)
20140305 17:16:56< Aishiko_laptop> vorobeez, your welcome I didn't do much but give my impression of what he said they wanted.
20140305 17:20:15-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.114.91.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 17:41:47< mordante> I'm off bye
20140305 17:42:27-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140305 17:48:08-!- aranjuda [011630cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.1.22.48.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140305 17:52:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 17:52:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 17:52:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 17:54:16-!- Taqi [~Taqi@gateway/tor-sasl/taqi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140305 17:57:48-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 17:59:00-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 18:07:56-!- BlindedHunter [~Yue@128.163.8.168] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:12:39< BlindedHunter> Hi, everyone. I have an inquiry, and I hope this is the right place for it. I'm a university student working on a project for a class where I will give a report on the use of AI in some extant program. Wesnoth is my target. I was wondering if anyone here might have advice on where to look for information on the AI. (Other than src/ai and data/ai, which I have already found my way to).
20140305 18:16:11< mattsc> BlindedHunter: what sort of information are you looking for?  How about this (links therein) for a starting point: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Practical_Guide_to_Modifying_AI_Behavior
20140305 18:19:19< BlindedHunter> I had seen that, and I think it may help, but I'm not certain. I myself am not looking to make any changes to the AI or any implementations (at least not yet), but just doing a report on the AI techniques and other details currently used. That's the idea, at least.
20140305 18:20:44-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-150-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: bye]
20140305 18:22:03< mattsc> Well, that's pretty much the most comprehensive collection of links to Wesnoth AI documentation.
20140305 18:22:08< BlindedHunter> Things like, "the AI uses BFS to determine the most optimial local..." etc, is the goal. I'm hopeful about there being some higher level stuff about that, otherwise I'll just try to dig through code and algorithms.
20140305 18:22:12< BlindedHunter> Ah, alright.
20140305 18:22:22< mattsc> BFS?
20140305 18:23:20< BlindedHunter> Breadth first search.
20140305 18:24:15< BlindedHunter> Don't expect that to actually be used anywhere in an AI for a game with such a large search space, I'd think, but that's the level of description I'm eventually going for with the report.
20140305 18:26:52< mattsc> I don't think that this sort of description exists anywhere in written form other than tidbits here and there (since this is a volunteer project), so you'll either have to dig in yourself or ask
20140305 18:27:25< BlindedHunter> That's pretty much what I expected.
20140305 18:28:08< BlindedHunter> Thank you, though. And I at least have more now to help me parse through the code than I had before.
20140305 18:30:17< mattsc> BlindedHunter: you're welcome - and btw, this is the right place to ask if you have follow-up questions
20140305 18:32:09< BlindedHunter> Alright, good to know. Didn't want to intrude or anything!
20140305 18:32:25-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 18:35:27-!- Delfinisko [~Delfinisk@ip-85.163.78.10.o2inet.sk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:39:32-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:39:56-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140305 18:40:16-!- shadowm [~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:40:26-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@wesnoth/umc-dev/bot/shikadibot] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 18:40:33-!- shikadibot [~shikadi@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:40:57-!- shikadibot is now known as Guest63515
20140305 18:41:02-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 18:41:02-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140305 18:41:09-!- Espreon [~espreon@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:41:13-!- AI0867 [~ai@wesnoth/developer/ai0867] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:41:33-!- Espreon is now known as Guest68940
20140305 18:52:33-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 18:54:48-!- aquileia [52d4193f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.63] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140305 18:55:19< vorobeez> mattsc: i though about what kind of reasons may exist for global decisions. And I don't found more. But I think maybe some sence to implement analyz of enemy strategy(e.g. enemy player trying catch all village, and AI must prevent this). Create several type of enemy behavior and after analyz of enemy tactics   change probabillity of some actions. 
20140305 18:58:00-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@p4FC5F39A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20140305 19:00:57-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 19:01:11-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:02:49< mattsc> vorobeez: that might be an option, but I'm not sure that I understand exactly what you mean.
20140305 19:04:17< thunderstruck> This is probably a stupid question, but how can I find someone on the forums? Members page doesn't include a search box.
20140305 19:04:49< mattsc> thunderstruck: see the "find a member" link?
20140305 19:04:52< zookeeper> thunderstruck, beats me. i always just try to find a post of theirs somehow.
20140305 19:05:23< mattsc> In front of the list of letters in the alphabet?
20140305 19:05:35< thunderstruck> mattsc: Wow.
20140305 19:05:44< thunderstruck> They have hidden such important link.
20140305 19:05:55< zookeeper> ohh, that's a very... inconspicuous link.
20140305 19:06:10 * zookeeper tries to remember it
20140305 19:06:13< mattsc> They don't want to make it too easy on you.
20140305 19:06:25< mattsc> Where'd be the fun in that?  :)
20140305 19:07:32 * thunderstruck is looking for a hidden link to add user to a group
20140305 19:07:44 * thunderstruck so much fun!
20140305 19:08:12-!- kolyanv [~kolyanv@91.229.76.101] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:08:24< mattsc> thunderstruck: you might need admin privileges to do that
20140305 19:09:00< thunderstruck> mattsc: Well, I'm one of the leaders of Summer of Code group, so I guess I should be able to do it.
20140305 19:09:07-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140305 19:09:31< thunderstruck> By leader, I mean that it shows me as a leader in groups page on the forums.
20140305 19:10:51< mattsc> I don't know if you should.  I know whom to ask though.
20140305 19:11:18< vorobeez> mattsc: I will try to explain more precisely. Players plays with AI. And players have some tactics. For example he trying to catch all of villages for more money and control, or in other case he playing more on defence than attack, or compile of this two styles. And AI analyze tactics of player and make decision for its tactics(in first case gather close to villages, defence, and so on and so forth).  
20140305 19:11:21< thunderstruck> shadowm: Should I be able to add members to SoC group on forums or not?
20140305 19:13:07-!- Guest68940 is now known as Espreon
20140305 19:13:13-!- Espreon [~espreon@ai0867.net] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 19:13:13-!- Espreon [~espreon@wesnoth/developer/espreon] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:13:35< mattsc> vorobeez: That sounds like a good idea in principle, but I doubt that it will work very well in practice, since almost all playing styles are always a combination of tactics, and they vary from turn to turn.
20140305 19:13:50< thunderstruck> shadowm: Nevermind. I already find it out.
20140305 19:14:00< mattsc> I think we need to go for something much more simple to start with.
20140305 19:14:56-!- AVDeen_1082 [~vandeen@D-173-250-146-91.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:15:23-!- AVDeen_1082 [~vandeen@D-173-250-146-91.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
20140305 19:16:10-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:16:38< vorobeez> mattsc: yes, i though about this. I will continue think about project. About simplicity...tomorrow)
20140305 19:16:41-!- AVDeen__ [~vandeen@D-173-250-146-91.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:17:24< vorobeez> it's too late)
20140305 19:19:09< mattsc> vorobeez: sounds good.  There is still quite a bit of time left also and there are tasks you could do to familiarize yourself with the AI without knowing exactly the details of this project.
20140305 19:19:28< mattsc> And in the meantime, hopefully Crab_ will show up sometime and give us some more guidance.  :)
20140305 19:22:53< vorobeez> mattsc: sorry, but i don't understand. What tasks? Like a bug or easy improovement for AI? (my bad English...)
20140305 19:23:56< mattsc> vorobeez: yes.  If you want to have a chance to get accepted into GSoC, you need to demonstrate that you understand the code and can work with it.
20140305 19:24:18< mattsc> That doesn't have to be related to the AI, but it's always good to have it be somewhat close to the project you're going to propose.
20140305 19:25:53< vorobeez> mattsc: thank you. i thougt about this too) 
20140305 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on master | 218 bugs, 350 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140305 19:27:21< vorobeez> mattsc: good night :)
20140305 19:28:11-!- vorobeez [~quassel@85.142.148.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 19:30:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:30:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host]
20140305 19:30:57-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:43:48-!- Ant2 [~root@5.167.79.36] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:47:42< Ant2> Hi:)
20140305 19:47:42< Ant2> Can you help me?
20140305 19:47:42< Ant2> I have error and can't build project.
20140305 19:47:42< Ant2> g++: error: unrecognized command line option ‘-mthreads’
20140305 19:47:42< Ant2> I can't find solution for this problem:(
20140305 19:48:15-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:48:23-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@cpe-065-191-176-226.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:49:58-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140305 19:50:04-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:50:27-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:50:56< lipkab> Ant2: Helllo. Operating system, build system, etc?
20140305 19:54:44< iceiceice> mattsc: thanks for catching this bug, i made an obvious logic error, i'm not sure why it was working for me at all
20140305 19:55:52-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:55:59< EliDupree_> Is anybody here "Dugi" on the wiki?
20140305 19:56:01< mattsc> iceiceice: I didn't catch it (it was somebody with nick Duthlet who was on here earlier), I just assigned it to you since the linked commit is yours.
20140305 19:56:42-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 19:56:50< EliDupree_> because this is incorrect: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/index.php?title=LuaWML:Misc&diff=51684&oldid=49202
20140305 19:57:25< zookeeper> EliDupree_, no, i don't think he's in irc
20140305 19:57:41-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140305 20:00:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:01:30< Ant2> lipkab: OS: kali linux 1.0 IDE: Code::Blocks 10.05 GCC compiler
20140305 20:01:52-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.114.91.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 20:02:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140305 20:02:35< Aishiko_laptop> Ant2, what version of GCC?
20140305 20:02:49-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140305 20:02:58-!- Gallaecio [~quassel@84.120.114.91.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:03:53< Ant2> Aishiko_laptop: 4.7.2
20140305 20:04:02< lipkab> Ant2: I don't know if the Code::Blocks project files are working on Linux, they're maintained for Windows people primarily. Try with CMake or SCons.
20140305 20:05:06< Ant2> ok, thanks:)
20140305 20:06:53-!- kolyanv [~kolyanv@91.229.76.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 20:08:02-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140305 20:08:24-!- timotei__ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds]
20140305 20:08:35< Aishiko_laptop> Ant2, I couldn't get Codeblocks to compile I had to manually go and tell cmake to do a make with the GCC compiler instead of using the default one (I want to say clang or something like that).
20140305 20:08:59-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:09:48-!- Crab_ [~Crab_@wesnoth/developer/crab] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20140305 20:09:52< iceiceice> EliDupree_: I think Dugi is also Dugi on irc
20140305 20:10:00< iceiceice> wesbot: seen Dugi?
20140305 20:10:01< wesbot> iceiceice: The person with the nick Dugi last spoke 13d 2h ago.  12d 19h ago they left with the message: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
20140305 20:10:14< EliDupree_> heh
20140305 20:10:35-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:10:43< EliDupree_> well I've fixed the docs
20140305 20:14:49-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 20:15:32-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 20:17:28-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:19:27-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-239-120.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:20:21-!- spoffy [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:27:25-!- lipkab [~lipkab@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 20:28:23-!- Delfinisko [~Delfinisk@ip-85.163.78.10.o2inet.sk] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-]
20140305 20:29:15< Aishiko_laptop> mattsc, I was wondering if you knew if the variable recall cost was something that was still being considered when I spoke to Boucman he was surprised that it was still on the page and that he was listed as the one to ask
20140305 20:31:59< Ant2> lipkab, Aishiko_laptop: Thanks, Code::Blocks + SCons work great:)
20140305 20:32:08< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: I think it's one of those if somebody implements it, somebody will use it things
20140305 20:32:11< Aishiko_laptop> Ant2, your welcome
20140305 20:33:18< mattsc> I'm pretty sure it won't be used in mainline, but UMC authors ask for it occasionally and I am not aware of any reason why it shouldn't exist.
20140305 20:33:40< mattsc> But it's not a topic I have paid attention to, so take that for what it's worth.
20140305 20:33:41< Aishiko_laptop> matthiaskrgr, ohh Okay, it just said that the syntax and costs needed to be discussed and since I don't know much about proper game balancing, I figured it wiser to get info before writing anything.
20140305 20:34:28< Aishiko_laptop> errr mattsc, sorry matthiaskrgr  I didn't check my tab complete like I should have.
20140305 20:35:53< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: it is not about actually changing the recall cost in any existing scenario, but about giving UMC authors the option to do it if they want.  So you don't need to know anything about balancing.  :)
20140305 20:37:42< mattsc> And looking at the linked bug report, I'd agree with zookeeper's comment.
20140305 20:41:22-!- AVDeen__ [~vandeen@D-173-250-146-91.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 20:42:18< mattsc> ... and before anybody asks: https://gna.org/bugs/?16538
20140305 20:45:56-!- mattsc [~mattsc@fw.hia.nrc.ca] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20140305 20:47:56-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:48:29-!- BlindedHunter [~Yue@128.163.8.168] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
20140305 20:57:23-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 20:59:45< shadowm> Yes, that's an awfully vague FR.
20140305 20:59:55< Aishiko_laptop> boucman, speak of the devil =D
20140305 21:00:09< boucman> hello
20140305 21:00:23< shadowm> Note that we currently have a [side] recall_cost=<integer> attribute.
20140305 21:00:50< zookeeper> yeah, and as mattsc said, please do it according to my comment, not the... whatever the original describes :p
20140305 21:01:10< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, what I'm thinking they want is a customizable function but that's a bit much
20140305 21:01:15< Aishiko_laptop> zookeeper, I was planning too
20140305 21:11:38-!- spoffy [~spoffy@152.78.175.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 21:22:11-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 21:25:27-!- irker277 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 21:25:27< irker277> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 6d460b982713 / src/game_display.cpp: fix bug #21757 http://git.io/ZkZVKA
20140305 21:27:59-!- Ant2 [~root@5.167.79.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 21:30:00-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 21:37:15-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 21:42:19< shadowm> _8680_: Did you review mordante's news post already'
20140305 21:42:25< shadowm> _8680_: ?
20140305 21:42:56< shadowm> Or vultraz, whomever replies first.
20140305 21:43:02< shadowm> *whoever
20140305 21:50:12-!- AVDeen__ [~vandeen@D-173-250-149-195.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 22:00:06-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 22:06:28< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, I must have missed it
20140305 22:06:52 * Aishiko_laptop assumes it might have been a public posting
20140305 22:07:40< shadowm> Oh, no, it's a private draft, you can't read it.
20140305 22:08:53< Aishiko_laptop> I figured after I said anything, otherwise it would have been sort of who's seen and not directed at 2 people in particular
20140305 22:15:15-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 22:16:44< Aishiko_laptop> though I'm having issues deciding where to put the recall cost decider, I'm thinking with in place_recruit or recall_unit (I'm leaning towards the latter)
20140305 22:25:23-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140305 22:39:20-!- werlley [~werlley@187-41-145-148.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 22:39:41-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 22:50:49-!- AVDeen__ [~vandeen@D-173-250-149-195.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140305 23:02:26-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 23:05:31-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20140305 23:20:13-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140305 23:24:43< iceiceice> hi: a quick question about good commit style when performing a refactor
20140305 23:25:14< iceiceice> is it more important that every commit actually compiles or that each step only touches a few files and is easy to understand?
20140305 23:25:22< iceiceice> it seems that we can't have both here
20140305 23:25:42< shadowm> Side note: Refactor = increased potential for oversight-induced breakage = not good for stable/RC/beta.
20140305 23:25:52< iceiceice> its necessary to fix the double kill bug
20140305 23:26:16< shadowm> It can wait until 1.12 is branched away then, IMHO.
20140305 23:26:54< shadowm> That is, the bug's impact is extremely low and only concerns debug-mode users.
20140305 23:27:06< iceiceice> so thats the official double kill bug
20140305 23:27:17< iceiceice> but the more general problem is that unit animations hold a naked pointer
20140305 23:27:22< iceiceice> that they cannot check is valid
20140305 23:27:29< iceiceice> and this leads to segfaults in many different scenarios
20140305 23:27:49< shadowm> What are those scenarios? Have any bugs been filed about them?
20140305 23:28:31< iceiceice> i have not formally diagnosed many of the other bugs, but i bet that (1) you could create this bug with lua by creating units, animating them and deleting them
20140305 23:28:41< iceiceice> (2) you could cause the whiteboard to segfault in similar ways
20140305 23:28:54< iceiceice> its obvious to me that what we are doing is unsafe
20140305 23:29:01< iceiceice> and it seems to me likely related to other known issues
20140305 23:29:22< iceiceice> if you need me to actually identify specific bug reports i can look into that
20140305 23:29:32-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 23:29:36< shadowm> wesnoth.wml_actions.animate_unit ([animate_unit]) is a blocking action when run in normal Lua/WML code. It's the debug console that can trigger an unsafe situation.
20140305 23:29:56-!- justinzane [~justinzan@tiny.justinzane.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 23:30:10< shadowm> Because the debug console can actually continue to process commands even during the execution of a Lua/WML sequence.
20140305 23:30:34< iceiceice> the current code is not at all exception safe
20140305 23:30:47-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 23:30:49< iceiceice> just because the action is normally blocking doesnt mean it actually is in practice
20140305 23:31:05< iceiceice> the system we have "works in practice" except when it doesnt
20140305 23:31:29< iceiceice> its really a serious flaw imo and not just this debug mode issue
20140305 23:32:30< iceiceice> idk it can wait until 1.12 if u prefer
20140305 23:32:43< iceiceice> but i dont think it should be thought of as just affecting debug mode
20140305 23:32:46< shadowm> I stated my opinion. I'm not an authority on this matter, and nobody really is.
20140305 23:33:20< iceiceice> anyways do you have an opinion about my first question?
20140305 23:33:51< shadowm> Eh no, because I'd prefer both in an ideal world.
20140305 23:34:50< shadowm> I for one have opted for commits that continue to compile in the real world for my own stuff, but it'd be very stupid for me to present my work as a model to follow.
20140305 23:35:34< shadowm> s/for me/of me/
20140305 23:38:58-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f048139194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 23:43:39< shadowm> Arrrrrrgh.
20140305 23:43:58-!- mattsc [~mattsc@154.20.32.245] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140305 23:46:55< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Do [frame] halos that are an image list (halo1.png:50,halo2.png:50,[...]) loop when the frame's explicit duration= is longer than the halo image list's length?
20140305 23:46:59< mattsc> iceiceice: I'm only here for a few minutes right now, but I've said before that I am okay with putting a work-around in for the double-kill/double-create bug, and do the full fix in 1.12.
20140305 23:47:38< mattsc> It's not that people are reporting segfaults all over the place, so it does not seem to be a very common occurrence.
20140305 23:48:00< mattsc> sorry: s/1.12/1.13
20140305 23:49:06< mattsc> In fact, for now I would simply turn off animation for debug kill/create.  Personally, I think they are annoying anyway.
20140305 23:49:19< iceiceice> y that's probably appropriate. i think i am at least going to finish my refactor and get it stable before i completely forget about it, and push a topic branch so we can decide what to do later
20140305 23:50:30< mattsc> iceiceice: well, the branching off was supposed to be happening this week anyway (and just hasn't happened yet because Ivanovic is sick), so we won't have to work for very long.
20140305 23:50:51< iceiceice> i see i didn't realize that
20140305 23:52:05< shadowm> Re the animation (non)reentrance thing, I apologize if it sounds like I'm prone to shooting down every non-trivial thing after entering beta, but I know from past experience (both my own and others') that code refactors tend to result in all kinds of unintended regressions that may or may not be found in time for a release -- it just wouldn't be good form to throw _new_ bugs at our (few) faithful users testing these betas in an ...
20140305 23:52:11< shadowm> ... attempt to fix less common or important bugs that ultimately stem from essential design flaws.
20140305 23:52:14-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140305 23:52:34< shadowm> But you are free to redirect my opinion to /dev/null in any case.
20140305 23:54:23< Aishiko_laptop> we'd never do a "shadowm.character_gen /dev/null" in any situation!
20140305 23:55:27< shadowm> I mean, honestly, my thing is the forums. When it comes to development I can only provide opinions.
20140305 23:55:39-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has joined #wesnoth-dev
--- Log closed Thu Mar 06 00:00:23 2014