--- Log opened Thu Mar 13 00:00:15 2014
20140313 00:00:25< Nostromus> but when you have a solution for vs13 tell me ;)
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20140313 00:02:32< gfgtdf> i think i don't have :(  sry
20140313 00:02:57< Nostromus> don't wonder about me using several IDEs and OS, just looking at other IDEs, my main ide is eclipse
20140313 00:03:27< gfgtdf> then why don't you use eclipse ?
20140313 00:03:40< gfgtdf> i think codeblocks is c++ only ?
20140313 00:03:51< Nostromus> yes and fortran
20140313 00:04:55< Nostromus> i don't use eclipse because i'm trying out other ide for new employer
20140313 00:05:25< gfgtdf> my first programm was a game in fortran :9
20140313 00:05:29< gfgtdf> :) *
20140313 00:05:50< gfgtdf> but i dont realy remember  fortran
20140313 00:05:50< Nostromus> i wonder which is the mose used IDE here
20140313 00:05:56< Nostromus> *most
20140313 00:06:11< Nostromus> maybe vi ;)
20140313 00:06:23< gfgtdf> you really think  ?
20140313 00:06:31< Nostromus> no just joking
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20140313 00:07:02< Nostromus> i don't know, as i said just beginning to work on wesnoth
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20140313 00:07:46< gfgtdf> do you use c++ in most of you projects ?
20140313 00:07:51< Nostromus> yes
20140313 00:07:54< Nostromus> and c
20140313 00:08:17< sachith500> there's quite a bit of python too right?
20140313 00:08:19< Nostromus> mostly embedded software
20140313 00:08:33< sachith500> I noticed while looking at a bug for undead unit variations
20140313 00:09:02< gfgtdf> i don't really like c++ because it compiles slow. But i think for embedded you do not have much choice.
20140313 00:09:05< Nostromus> according to github yes there is also python
20140313 00:09:24< sachith500> it compiles slow but runs fast
20140313 00:09:26< sachith500> ;)
20140313 00:10:17< Nostromus> but don't know for what they use python, i think more testing stuff
20140313 00:10:53< sachith500> yeah some of the ai testing etc
20140313 00:10:58< sachith500> works with python
20140313 00:12:24< Nostromus> i set up my environment and now i looking more on code, there are two areas in which i'm interestes, ui and ai
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20140313 00:13:31< Nostromus> i think because there are a lot gsoc on ai, i will go more on gui, but dont know yet
20140313 00:13:56< gfgtdf> hmm i'm more interested in fixing oos errors currently.
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20140313 00:14:45< gfgtdf> Nostromus: you are a gsoc participant ?
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20140313 00:14:57< Nostromus> no i'm not a student anymore
20140313 00:15:12< Nostromus> so i can't participate
20140313 00:15:32< gfgtdf> ah i din't know that only student can participate
20140313 00:15:46< Nostromus> yes only students as i know
20140313 00:17:02< gfgtdf> what did you study ?
20140313 00:17:09< Nostromus> computer science
20140313 00:18:15< Nostromus> do you study?
20140313 00:18:33< gfgtdf> ye, maths
20140313 00:19:16< Nostromus> and do you will participate on gsoc? 
20140313 00:19:37< gfgtdf> i currently have no such plans.
20140313 00:19:55< gfgtdf> bvecause i didnt thought about it
20140313 00:20:58< gfgtdf> building wesnoth complete, it took 52 minutes 
20140313 00:21:06< Nostromus> with vs10?
20140313 00:21:13< gfgtdf> yes, singel core
20140313 00:21:16< gfgtdf> single
20140313 00:21:30< Nostromus> nice which libs do you use?
20140313 00:22:34< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, 52 minutes?  I did on a single core in half that time....  how old is your system?
20140313 00:22:38< Nostromus> you should build on more cores ;)
20140313 00:22:53< gfgtdf> you call that nice :S  . I builded boost 1_52 myself and the rest downloaded form wesnoth webpage
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20140313 00:23:12< Nostromus> hm, seems than more a problem with vs13
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20140313 00:23:32< Nostromus> i tried this ones
20140313 00:23:34< gfgtdf> i bought that computer in 2007
20140313 00:24:48< Nostromus> nice was meant because of vs, not because the time
20140313 00:24:56< Aishiko_laptop> ahh gfgtdf if you were going to be in GSOC and needed the cycles I'd see about setting up a remote link to the beowulf cluster I'm building
20140313 00:25:49< shadowm> Does VC++ 2012 or whatever also have the ridiculous restrictions previous versions did about not being able to use multiple cores unless incremental compiling was disabled?
20140313 00:26:33< Nostromus> sry don't know, try vs13 to get more knowledge on the this ide
20140313 00:26:47< Nostromus> tried
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20140313 00:27:18< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, no clue I avoid it unless I have too (IE for class)  and on an unrelated note I think I have figured out what was going on and have fixed it and SHOULD have an update to the patch that actually you know... works
20140313 00:27:24< gfgtdf> shadowm: i tihnk yes, 
20140313 00:28:07< Aishiko_laptop> soon but first I want to clean up the code (fix things like whitespace and commented out sections that just need to be removed) before I push it.
20140313 00:28:59< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: Okay, sure. I asssume you tested it more throughly this time. ;)
20140313 00:29:06< shadowm> *thoroughly
20140313 00:30:24< shadowm> Since these are three syntax cases that may interact with each other, that makes for a total of <MATHS> test cases plus the default.
20140313 00:30:43< Aishiko_laptop> well I'm going to compile again after the clean up and do the tests, to pass it has to do whiteboard, display the proper values, and the right precendent of unit over unit_type =)
20140313 00:30:52< shadowm> (3! ?)
20140313 00:31:29< iceiceice> gfgtdf: you shold use clang if you aren't already
20140313 00:31:38< iceiceice> when i switched to clang it made me compile wesnoth 3 times faster than gcc
20140313 00:32:10< shadowm> This machine is fast enough I can't notice a difference between gcc and clang for Wesnoth, I think.
20140313 00:32:37< Nostromus> iceiceice: i tried clang, and get only a few minutes
20140313 00:32:43< gfgtdf> clang is just a compiler or a ide too ?
20140313 00:32:49< iceiceice> just the compiler
20140313 00:32:55< _8680_> Clang also has better diagnostics (warnings and error messages). I don’t know whether it works on Microsoft Windows though.
20140313 00:32:59 * _8680_ disappears again.
20140313 00:32:59< iceiceice> the magic words were something like "scons --cxxtool=clang++"
20140313 00:33:25< shadowm> iceiceice: `scons cxxtool=clang++`
20140313 00:33:29< iceiceice> i switched because i noticed the travis builds with clang were consistenyl 2.5 - 3x faster than the gcc ones
20140313 00:33:33< iceiceice> shadowm: thanks
20140313 00:33:36< gfgtdf> iceiceice: what ide so you suggest to use with clang ?
20140313 00:33:39< shadowm> It's a recipe option rather than a command line switch.
20140313 00:33:45< gfgtdf> do*
20140313 00:34:03< iceiceice> gfgtdf: actually i dont recommend an ide, i just gedit and scons
20140313 00:34:12< iceiceice> but it kind of sucks a bit tbh
20140313 00:34:23< iceiceice> i wish i had something to do symbol lookup
20140313 00:35:06< iceiceice> i was researching recently what i need to do to get something like ctags for my setup, haven't figured it out yet
20140313 00:36:29< iceiceice> the other thing thats a bit annoying is that gedit doesn't let me move tabs between windows the way i would like ideally
20140313 00:36:36< iceiceice> or if it does i haven't figured it out yet
20140313 00:37:18< iceiceice> idk at one point i tried to learn vim but i never really got into it
20140313 00:37:39< Nostromus> you can use any ide, just configured to use make. And for the makefile cmake
20140313 00:38:34< Nostromus> before execute cmake, set CXX to the compiler you want to use
20140313 00:39:01< Nostromus> gcc is standard
20140313 00:39:20< Nostromus> for clang, set CXX=clang++
20140313 00:39:36< Nostromus> presumed you have installed clang ;)
20140313 00:39:45< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, I use Kate and cmake or scons depending on my mood
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20140313 00:40:26< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, Kate is just an advanced text editor that comes with syntax highlighting for a few dozen languages just you know out of the box
20140313 00:40:31< shadowm> KDevelop or Kate, always scons unless I need to experiment with stuff.
20140313 00:41:03< gfgtdf> Nostromus: no im still at step1: finding and installing an compiler+ide wich compiles faster than msvc.
20140313 00:41:27< shadowm> I switched to clang for scons some time ago because clang is the latest fad and I didn't want to miss out.
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20140313 00:42:11< shadowm> Also that allows me to deal with any clang-specific code issues with my code firsthand.
20140313 00:42:16< Nostromus> use clang
20140313 00:42:29< Nostromus> cmake or scons, doesn't matter
20140313 00:43:04< gfgtdf> ok, i decided to use clang. now i need do decide which  ide i use.
20140313 00:43:42< Nostromus> i use cmake, because in many ide you can setup a project with makefiles
20140313 00:43:59< iceiceice> hmm this is really wierd
20140313 00:44:27< iceiceice> when i sudo apt-get install kate, it tells me i have a bunch of dependency issues, then "E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
20140313 00:44:36< gfgtdf> cmake is an ide, i thought it s just a tool that generated projectfiles ?
20140313 00:44:44< Nostromus> no cmake is no ide
20140313 00:44:53< Nostromus> just a tool to generate a makefile
20140313 00:45:00< iceiceice> but when i apt-mark showhold i get nothing, and when i apt-mark unhold, it says "no held packages found"
20140313 00:46:13< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, I found one issue with the changes, though I think I know how to fix it.  A unit's recall_cost isn't written to the lua and I know why =)
20140313 00:46:30< Nostromus> Codeblocks and Eclipse works fine, under linux and windows, try it out
20140313 00:47:44< Nostromus> and important, after choosing one, stick to one for a while
20140313 00:48:03< Nostromus> so that after a while the workflow is more fluent
20140313 00:48:15< shadowm> Codeblocks with gcc on Windows is nice, it doesn't impose arbitrary restrictions on my ability to multitask.
20140313 00:49:04< Aishiko_laptop> though the project files in the repo didn't work for me for compiling on linux
20140313 00:49:11< Nostromus> yeah try out this, there is a readme in codeblocks project folder for setup
20140313 00:49:14< shadowm> The only downside is that unless you build all the dependencies yourself, for Wesnoth you have to stick to a specific old version of gcc and can only build Wesnoth for 32-bit Windows (which will work on 64-bit Windows too, but still).
20140313 00:49:39< iceiceice> Nostromus: i think i dont like to use ides, it seems like a lot of work and then at the end the result is pretty opaque unless you have alot of experience. i prefer to use command line tools and simple text editors
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20140313 00:50:44< iceiceice> dont want to mess around with project files, git and scons already handles all my needs there
20140313 00:51:36< shadowm> The project file I use for kdevelop just lets everything in to make things simpler for me.
20140313 00:51:43< Nostromus> there is not much work, you can use a ide lika an texteditor and use the command line tools for building, and have still some benefits
20140313 00:52:25< Nostromus> and with experience the workflow can be much more fluent
20140313 00:53:39< Nostromus> but i agree that is to some degree a matter of taste
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20140313 00:55:12< iceiceice> hmm so i have to install kde to use kate?
20140313 00:55:19< Nostromus> yes
20140313 00:55:23< Aishiko_laptop> Nostromus, I actually prefer the way Kate is laid out
20140313 00:55:46< shadowm> No, I don't think you have to install more than KDE frameworks.
20140313 00:56:06< Aishiko_laptop> iceiceice, I'm not sure but Nostromus seems very sure, and it makes a little sense it's part of the KDE stuff so you might not have to get all of it but some other parts
20140313 00:56:27< Nostromus> iceiceice: kde has dependecies on kde
20140313 00:56:28< shadowm> Although it's possible some non-framework packages are "recommended" or "suggested", which may result in them being pulled in too depending on apt's configuration.
20140313 00:56:29< Aishiko_laptop> iceiceice, it might also depend on your distro what other stuff it brings in
20140313 00:56:46< Nostromus> iceiceice: kate has dependecies on kde
20140313 00:57:22< Nostromus> iceiceice: there is no way without a lot of kde
20140313 00:58:07< Nostromus> Aishiko_laptop: i like kate, but i don't like that is only usable with kde
20140313 00:58:16< shadowm> Nostromus: No, thiat is wrong.
20140313 00:58:18< Nostromus> Aishiko_laptop: 
20140313 00:58:43< shadowm> You don't really need to run or install the desktop environment itself.
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20140313 00:59:10< Nostromus> shadowm: thats true, but you need a lot of libs from kde
20140313 00:59:17< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/KXNptw23
20140313 00:59:57< Nostromus> shadowm: yeah 230 mb for just a text editor
20140313 01:00:08< Nostromus> the most are kde libs
20140313 01:00:32< Aishiko_laptop> that seems like alot but I run KDE anyway so it wasn't alot more to add it
20140313 01:00:35< shadowm> KDE: http://pastebin.com/T3JTYWhR
20140313 01:01:37< Nostromus> shadowm: still a lot of kde libs, but you're right. my answer was not 100% correct
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20140313 01:01:50< shadowm> Also note that that is a very bare-bones chroot, so a good part of apt's list correspond to system stuff like policykit and dbus.
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20140313 01:03:05< shadowm> I created the chroot specifically for building a Qt 4 application on an older Qt version, so all Qt libraries are also missing from the list.
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20140313 01:03:11< Aishiko_laptop> I also saw some dictionaries and postgres packages too
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20140313 01:04:43< Nostromus> yes that is true
20140313 01:05:03< iceiceice> shadowm: what distro are you on?
20140313 01:05:24< shadowm> iceiceice: Debian testing, the chroot in question runs Debian stable.
20140313 01:05:37< iceiceice> yeah linux mint must have different packages i guess
20140313 01:05:48< Nostromus> So it is like the question, what i had installed and what i still need
20140313 01:05:55< iceiceice> or maybe i need to configure to use debian sources or something
20140313 01:06:17< shadowm> Well yeah, I believe Ubuntu and Debian are completely different in regards to how they handle KDE and Gnome.
20140313 01:06:23< Nostromus> no just debian should be enough
20140313 01:06:42< shadowm> Mint (unless you are using LMDE) follows Ubuntu, so you shouldn't mix sources from Debian unless you want to kill it.
20140313 01:07:58< Nostromus> shadowm: Do you use KDE or something else?
20140313 01:08:06< shadowm> KDE.
20140313 01:08:19< iceiceice> ugh well this is annoying
20140313 01:08:46< iceiceice> not sure if i'm willing to switch distros to use kate, i maybe am
20140313 01:09:03< iceiceice> will think about it
20140313 01:09:33< iceiceice> if kate already does symbol look-up in c++ thats pretty awesome... ctags seems like its not too well supported these days
20140313 01:10:27< shadowm> Sadly Debian crippled Kate a bit because the Python plugins component apparently creates a circular dependency.
20140313 01:11:11< shadowm> So no Python plugins for me until I get around to update my source build and move symlinks around to point to it again.
20140313 01:11:13< iceiceice> i cant even remember why i switched to mint from ubuntu int he first place
20140313 01:11:23< iceiceice> i guess one thing i could do is switch to the kde version of mint
20140313 01:12:01< shadowm> You could try it out on a VM!
20140313 01:12:10< Nostromus> i prefer to use something that i can get on all OS, so Kate is no option for me
20140313 01:13:04< shadowm> Nostromus: I haven't used Windows for serious stuff since 2007, so I don't need to worry about that, thankfully.
20140313 01:13:43< shadowm> For my Windows builds and the occasional 5-minutes hack I just use CodeBlocks.
20140313 01:14:19< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, but even then they do funky things with them in Mint
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20140313 01:27:23< shadowm> The worst part of making Wesnoth scenarios: playtesting them.
20140313 01:28:47< sachith500|2> ;D
20140313 01:29:17< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, that is understandable
20140313 01:30:30< iceiceice> yes i'm not willing to use windows at all anymore
20140313 01:30:50< Nostromus> on linux it is much more easier, right?
20140313 01:30:57< iceiceice> i used windows faithfully for like 10 years... 
20140313 01:31:03< iceiceice> now they seem to be just actively fucking things up intentionally
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20140313 01:32:18< Aishiko_laptop> iceiceice, you mean they have a plan?!!?!?!?!  this is news to me
20140313 01:33:26< iceiceice> maybe its just windows 8 i really have a problem with
20140313 01:33:56< iceiceice> idk i took a look at kate
20140313 01:34:12< iceiceice> i'm thinking now i might just figure out how to upgrade to gedit v3.0, i guess there are lots of plugins for that
20140313 01:34:19< Aishiko_laptop> so no issues with ME, Vista or any of other odd numbered releases?
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20140313 01:36:59< Nostromus> i have to go, bye bye
20140313 01:37:05< shadowm> 8.1 is touted as a new version rather than a minor update and it doesn't suck much less than 8 in terms of how much I had to fight with it to be able to accomplish anything.
20140313 01:37:07< Aishiko_laptop> bye Nostromus 
20140313 01:37:15-!- Nostromus [~Thunderbi@f054013089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Nostromus]
20140313 01:37:21< shadowm> (Not for me, for somebody else.)
20140313 01:38:11< Aishiko_laptop> Windows... we have 90% market share of desktops and laptops, after all what are you going to use?  your only other big choice is Linux or a nix clone....
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20140313 01:40:22< shadowm> Oh my god.
20140313 01:40:30< shadowm> This message almost gave me a heart attack.
20140313 01:41:54< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/mai-fail-or-something.png
20140313 01:42:31< shadowm> wesbot: seen mattsc
20140313 01:42:31< wesbot> shadowm: The person with the nick mattsc last spoke 1d 5h ago.  1d 5h ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: Ciao
20140313 01:42:57< shadowm> What if the full WML is restricted by NDA? :p
20140313 01:43:05< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, he's going to be gone for another 7-10 days
20140313 01:43:14< shadowm> Ow.
20140313 01:43:44< shadowm> I guess I'll disable that MAI setup for now.
20140313 01:43:53< Aishiko_laptop> MAI?
20140313 01:44:15< shadowm> Micro AI: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs
20140313 01:45:15< shadowm> Also the savegame became Invalid. YAay.
20140313 01:45:35< Aishiko_laptop> ahhh right, I still want to build an AI+ML wesnoth playing bot to take on the MP server goers
20140313 01:47:45< Aishiko_laptop> lol shadowm sort of like me, got it half done and then a curveball comes your way.  Like me going....  I should check to see  that it saves the recall values of each unit back into the WML for the next mission.... it doesn't and I'm not sure why.  Other then that it works fine
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20140313 01:53:21< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: Missing lines in the unit class' write() method? (It probably has one, haven't looked at it.)
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20140313 01:55:44< Aishiko_laptop> no I'm 99% sure I got that
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20140313 01:56:42< Aishiko_laptop> your right I had that line commented out in my attempts to track down why I wasn't getting the full functionality
20140313 01:57:49< Aishiko_laptop> I'm glad you had that Idea, because I have everything else in place like the lua.cpp (so it expects to do that) and the WML-tags so it knows to expect it coming in
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20140313 01:58:19< Aishiko_laptop> loading to test if that uncommenting does the trick
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20140313 02:00:45< Aishiko_laptop> no that didn't do it... back to the git diff to see if it might be something less
20140313 02:03:05< Aishiko_laptop> I think the answer is simpler, that in the save game its not expecting that value and not recording it (or something like that)
20140313 02:05:37< iceiceice> Aishiko: i'm really glad to be receiving the play-by-play here :p
20140313 02:07:00< Aishiko_laptop> ohh sorry I'll be less verbose
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20140313 02:23:17< iceiceice> anyone: i had an idea a few weeks ago that it might be useful to display for the user the total size of the configs loaded for each particular add-on
20140313 02:23:51< iceiceice> the reason is that for low-grade machines / phones, you only have so much ram to work with, and if you install e.g. ageless and war of the gods etc. it appears that your performance grinds to a halt
20140313 02:24:20< iceiceice> my experience and my conversations with other users has been that they will go into the add-on manager and find the ones with the largest download size and delete them
20140313 02:24:51< iceiceice> but i guess that actually that doesn't make so much sense...
20140313 02:25:14< iceiceice> it might be useful if during the config-cache loading sequence, we compute the total memory allocated that can be attributed to each add-on, and store it in _info.cfg
20140313 02:25:52< iceiceice> i spoke with dugi about this since he was thinking about the add-on manager recently, he thought that it would make sense to display such info in the "remove add-ons" dialog and i agree
20140313 02:27:38< iceiceice> i was trying to think in greater detail about exactly what it is i want to measure and how -- i guess i wanted to measure the memory of all the configs? how are items in bin_path handled, do those get cached as well?
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20140313 02:31:51< shadowm> Images are only cached as they get used, everything else that isn't WML is never cached.
20140313 02:36:40< iceiceice> i see thanks
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20140313 02:43:36< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, do you have any suggested reading for following the cache?
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20140313 02:52:43< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: You mean as in probes to tell what's being done with the image cache?
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20140313 02:53:50< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, yes and just basic understanding of how it works with regards to wesnoth
20140313 02:57:16< shadowm> Well, I know every image (where e.g. "image.png~RC(magenta>red)" counts as two images) gets cached, the cache is reset on :debug :refresh and (IIRC) pressing F5 on the titlescreen, and the cache used to be limited in size and entry lifespan but at some point the limits were lifted...
20140313 02:57:59< shadowm> I don't know much but I generall don't really know how much I know about any given thing until I'm asked specific questions.
20140313 02:59:05< shadowm> (Okay, the part where images with IPF count as two images may be based on the previous implementation of the cache, I'm not sure whether it's still the case.)
20140313 03:00:43< Aishiko_laptop> the wiki says that the image cache for small images is never cleared currently, given what I've heard I think that limited overview is a bit out of date
20140313 03:01:25< shadowm> I think I pointed you to the function to purge the cache the other day as a starting point for researching those claims.
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20140313 03:04:10< shadowm> A thing to keep in mind is that there's a lot of code around that calls the various image transform functions from sdl_utils.hpp directly on SDL surfaces rather than using image path functions, mostly because the latter used to be very limited in scope back in the day even when the need to modify images in the C++ code (flip, recolor, blend, crop, etc.) already existed.
20140313 03:05:24< shadowm> If I take a surface and recolor it myself rather than calling get_image() on a path including the ~RC() function, that's a missed caching opportunity.
20140313 03:06:06< shadowm> Whether this may be considered advantageous or not really depends on how often those hand-made transforms have to be repeated.
20140313 03:06:39< shadowm> Because overpopulating the cache with useless one-shot entries wouldn't be a nice thing to do either.
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20140313 03:07:41< shadowm> After all, each cache entry is pretty much guaranteed to take up more RAM than the original file takes up persistent (HDD/SSD) storage space due to the format differences.
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20140313 03:08:26< shadowm> The only surface compression method SDL 1.2 has to offer is RLE, whereas PNG files on disk have many more possibilities.
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20140313 03:08:58< Aishiko_laptop> I'll check my logs (they remember better then I do sometimes!)  and you did sorry, for not remembering
20140313 03:09:29< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, and SDL 2.0?  does it have the same limitation as the 1.2?
20140313 03:09:40< shadowm> Eh, most of the time my memory is fairly useless. I'm very quick to forget to-do items and people, in particular.
20140313 03:09:57< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: Oh, no, I don't know anything about SDL 2.0, sorry!
20140313 03:10:46< shadowm> The very few things I know for certain about SDL 1.2 come from a brief foray into game engine development I did like 7 years ago and never went anywhere.
20140313 03:11:13< Aishiko_laptop> lol my roomie likes to make jokes that my memory is worse then a gold fishes
20140313 03:12:04< shadowm> I know SDL 2.0 exists and that we want to use it (hence the GSoC project proposal), but since I swore off game engine development attempts forever, I haven't really learned much about it.
20140313 03:13:02< shadowm> I'd like to learn some day, but Python and C++11 take higher priority in my learning queue.
20140313 03:13:22< Aishiko_laptop> ahh because if there is a student that is doing that, I'd want to work with them, (ie making sure they don't have to come behind me and update it in a month)
20140313 03:14:00< Aishiko_laptop> I should have taken one of the SGD course that were offered this semester
20140313 03:14:27< shadowm> SGD = Singapore Dollar?
20140313 03:14:44< shadowm> (Quite sure that isn't it, but...)
20140313 03:15:59< Aishiko_laptop> Simulation and Game Develpment
20140313 03:17:02< Aishiko_laptop> everything from physics engines to skinning and other image stuff to back end logic and game balancing as well as ethics and the dreaded....... documentation course
20140313 03:18:08< vultraz> Documentation. Blegh..
20140313 03:18:50< Aishiko_laptop> which is why its offered in the summer
20140313 03:19:11< Aishiko_laptop> right along side the ethics class -P
20140313 03:19:16< shadowm> The world would be much better if everyone wrote good documentation.
20140313 03:20:31< vultraz> Always nice to have good documentation. But someone has to write it. 
20140313 03:20:33< Aishiko_laptop> or at least used good comments so those of use coming in afterwards wouldn't get so confused about why your did X and not Y
20140313 03:20:35< vultraz> And no one wants to do that
20140313 03:20:55< Aishiko_laptop> the OPW actually has internships that do stuff like that
20140313 03:24:43< vultraz> I'm rewriting the scenario/campaign/mp documentation on the wiki, ATM
20140313 03:25:02< iceiceice> when i was in high school, our teacher told us that we had to comment our code, so i wrote a program called autocomment that just adds obvious comments to C++ lines of various types :)
20140313 03:25:26< vultraz> iceiceice: but did you comment on the code of autocomment? :P
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20140313 03:25:45< iceiceice> lol, definitely not, as that needed to remain a secret :)
20140313 03:25:49< Aishiko_laptop> vultraz, I would think not it wasn't turned in to the teacher I bet!
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20140313 03:26:44< iceiceice> i guess i could have made it autocomment itself 
20140313 03:28:23< vultraz> I don't really religiously comment, and when I do, I doubt what I write is very helpful
20140313 03:30:51< vultraz> actually, these are more helpful than I remember :D
20140313 03:32:21< Aishiko_laptop> vultraz, when I comment if there is break from the expected flow I try to place a comment on why its different
20140313 03:33:49< Aishiko_laptop> like the reading of the unit recall values, if I didn't do a check on it before assigning if there was a case of good values being over written by a null or 0 default value so 1 if statement to check it before assigning it
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20140313 03:41:26< Aishiko_laptop> hi sachith500 
20140313 03:41:37< sachith500> hey Aishiko_laptop
20140313 03:41:38< sachith500> ;D
20140313 03:41:52< sachith500> on linux now
20140313 03:41:57< sachith500> kvirc is black :S
20140313 03:42:35< Aishiko_laptop> your not on the acursed doze anymore??? yes another one has seen the light =P
20140313 03:44:20< sachith500> I was always dual booting :P
20140313 03:44:28< sachith500> hard to collaborate on uni projects otherwise
20140313 03:44:30< sachith500> sometimes
20140313 03:44:32< Aishiko_laptop> I hope that was taken as a joke and not as a slam on anyone's choice of OS
20140313 03:44:39< sachith500> ;D
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20140313 04:00:31< vultraz> Aishiko_laptop: are single comments like these useful, or is it better to go more in-depth? https://github.com/Vultraz/NX-RPG/blob/master/lua/gui/inventory.lua
20140313 04:00:46< vultraz> jw, since you seem to be up on good commenting 
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20140313 04:11:17< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master b9b199f4f19a / data/gui/default/window/message.cfg: gui2/tmessage: Add missing standard padding around image cell http://git.io/SYTdLw
20140313 04:11:18< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 037ec6af8b30 / data/gui/default/window/transient_message.cfg: gui2/ttransient_message: Add missing standard padding around image cell http://git.io/A35dyA
20140313 04:11:21< Aishiko_laptop> vultraz, single lines are fine, but if it takes more to explain how or why something is doing what it is don't be afraid to do it
20140313 04:11:22< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 134626473454 / data/gui/default/window/message.cfg: gui2/tmessage: Add missing standard padding around image cell http://git.io/geyttA
20140313 04:11:25< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 d36fbdc57806 / data/gui/default/window/transient_message.cfg: gui2/ttransient_message: Add missing standard padding around image cell http://git.io/--QKGw
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20140313 04:15:11< Aishiko_laptop> thats me Aishiko the expert at the things no one wants to do from cleaning a kitchen to commenting code
20140313 04:19:02< vultraz> Kitchens? The wesnoth forum spammers would love you :P
20140313 04:20:01< Aishiko_laptop> I'd eat them for breakfast....  and likely get banned for taking advantage of people so obviously unarmed in an intelligence fight
20140313 04:22:22< shadowm> Wheee, fixed something, broke another thing.
20140313 04:22:32< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, I know that feeling
20140313 04:22:59< Aishiko_laptop> I know what I need to do but not sure how to do it, yet =)
20140313 04:24:14< shadowm> We really need a GUI2 attribute "invisible_if_empty" or "no_border_if_empty".
20140313 04:24:46< shadowm> Although 'border' is a misnomer.
20140313 04:25:54< Aishiko_laptop> GSOC project finish the GUI2 improvements so its at a useable state for all parts of the code
20140313 04:25:54< shadowm> Also, gui2::twidget::tvisible is quite confusing in design if you know CSS.
20140313 04:26:20< shadowm> display:none <- equivalent to gui2::twidget::tvisible::invisible
20140313 04:26:36< shadowm> visibility:hidden <- equivalent to gui2::twidget::tvisible::hidden
20140313 04:27:04< shadowm> But the enum type name is tvisible so I keep thinking in terms of visibility.
20140313 04:27:42< Aishiko_laptop> and the difference between invis and hidden?
20140313 04:28:18< shadowm> invisible: cell becomes 0x0, is invisible    visible: cell has its regular size, is invisible
20140313 04:31:24< Aishiko_laptop> ahhh
20140313 04:31:55< Aishiko_laptop> I'm assuming that the second one is the hidden?
20140313 04:32:02< Aishiko_laptop> OK guessing
20140313 04:32:47< shadowm> Yeah.
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20140313 04:36:12< Aishiko_laptop> most everyone knows what assuming does but few know what asserting does
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20140313 04:38:26< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, is your desktop having connection issues?
20140313 04:38:38< shadowm> Always.
20140313 04:39:34< Aishiko_laptop> sounds like my roomie and her wireless and dealing with DNS servers, I really need to get the DNS server for the house back up and running
20140313 04:42:27< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, ohhh I was rereading some of the new dev documents and it said to use a const when dealing with something that isn't supposed to change (they used a pointer as an example) so I'm going to go back and turn that POD into a *
20140313 04:42:33< shadowm> le sign.......
20140313 04:42:45< shadowm> I wanted to continue testing my scenario, not to read confusing compiler errors.
20140313 04:43:23< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: What, what 'new' documents?
20140313 04:44:03< shadowm> Also, that int was good as an int, there's no need to turn it into a pointer unless you need to change it or know its address for some reason.
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20140313 04:44:21< Aishiko_laptop> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/HackingWesnoth
20140313 04:44:37< shadowm> That's not new. :p
20140313 04:45:03< Aishiko_laptop> I never said it was new I said it was for new devs\
20140313 04:45:18< Aishiko_laptop> though likely I wasn't clear and missed a comma or something
20140313 04:45:30< shadowm> Oh right, documents for new devs not new documents about development.
20140313 04:46:26< shadowm> Ohhhhhh.
20140313 04:46:41< shadowm> I somehow was editing the master branch's header and the 1.12 branch's implementation and... buh.
20140313 04:46:44< Aishiko_laptop> this is the sort of miscommunication that keeps me off forums and mailing lists
20140313 04:47:02< Aishiko_laptop> bad juju?
20140313 04:47:38-!- Samual [~dioteckte@xonotic/core-team/Samual] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140313 04:47:49< shadowm> No I'm just tired that's all.
20140313 04:48:05< shadowm> You can tell because I'm already unable to write commas.
20140313 04:51:41< shadowm> Oh great, it's the gettext.hpp vs. Boost name clashagain.
20140313 04:53:31< Aishiko_laptop> one should change its name =P
20140313 04:58:53< shadowm> The _ macro is used as a shorthand for one of the gettext functions pretty much everywhere, so it's an awkward situation.
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20140313 05:02:38< Aishiko_laptop> and let me guess no easy way to resolve
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20140313 05:03:01< shadowm> Other than replacing it everywhere, no.
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20140313 05:07:26< Aishiko_laptop> and figuring out which ones need to change and which don't?
20140313 05:08:31< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 4968a4b242e0 / src/gui/dialogs/ (transient_message.cpp transient_message.hpp): gui2/ttransient_message: Hide title and image widgets when unused http://git.io/A-ICoQ
20140313 05:08:31< shadowm> Hm, no.
20140313 05:08:34< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 849878612133 / src/gui/dialogs/message.cpp: gui2/tmessage: Hide title and image widgets when unused http://git.io/zTnQfw
20140313 05:08:37< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 fa9f75b62707 / src/gui/dialogs/ (transient_message.cpp transient_message.hpp): gui2/ttransient_message: Hide title and image widgets when unused http://git.io/hshFzw
20140313 05:08:40< irker796> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 403ccb10c750 / src/gui/dialogs/message.cpp: gui2/tmessage: Hide title and image widgets when unused http://git.io/06BMJg
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20140313 06:39:56< iceiceice> well that was exciting
20140313 06:40:08< iceiceice> i almost bricked my linux partition with dist-upgrade somehow...
20140313 06:40:28< iceiceice> some kind of crash in gnome desktop / corruption, i'm not really sure
20140313 06:40:53< iceiceice> but i dropped into root from grub and dist-upgraded to the next version and somehow that fixed it
20140313 06:41:49< iceiceice> unforunately i still don't have kate :)
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20140313 09:05:51< vultraz> wat
20140313 09:05:52< vultraz> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/WikiHaiku
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20140313 09:28:06< Rhonda> vultraz: Now I only need to find out how to …   *fiddling around
20140313 09:34:03< Rhonda> vultraz: Reload  :P
20140313 09:35:40< vultraz> Heh :P
20140313 09:42:10< vultraz> We should make that a thing
20140313 09:45:18< Rhonda> Can't resists Haiku related challenges, sorry  :P
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20140313 10:18:39< vultraz> hah! I found the forerunner of the frontpage
20140313 10:18:41< vultraz> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/The_Observer
20140313 10:24:32< vultraz> really seems there was a lot more going on in olden days
20140313 10:24:37< vultraz> comics
20140313 10:24:44< vultraz> etc etc..
20140313 10:25:02< vultraz> developer interviews
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20140313 11:57:09< zookeeper> maybe we should collect wesnoth-related haikus somewhere. there _might_ have been a haiku thread at some point, i dunno :x
20140313 12:00:49< Rhonda> What can I say …  http://rhonda.deb.at/blog/haiku - I even have a dedicated section in my blog for it (but I do put general poetry into there, too)
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20140313 12:08:33< zookeeper> well i was thinking more like...
20140313 12:08:37< zookeeper> trolls at midnight
20140313 12:08:42< zookeeper> giving me blunt force trauma
20140313 12:08:46< zookeeper> i only got fencers
20140313 12:09:57< zookeeper> well, i dunno if trolls counts as 2 or 1 syllables
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20140313 12:12:46< Rhonda> I would say 1
20140313 12:19:02< zookeeper> at least i tried
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20140313 12:44:57< Rhonda> Put a "those" in the first line and you're done.
20140313 12:45:10< Rhonda> Adding/removing articles like that is the easiest "fix".
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20140313 12:46:08< irker208> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 95d19e71a264 / po/ (wesnoth-dw/sk.po wesnoth-help/sk.po): updated Slovak translation http://git.io/KdyPSA
20140313 12:46:08< irker208> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 24a18b29a8e3 / po/wesnoth-dw/de.po: updated German translation http://git.io/ZurFNA
20140313 12:46:09< irker208> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master da7a03a83304 / po/ (wesnoth-dw/sk.po wesnoth-help/sk.po): updated Slovak translation http://git.io/jm32bg
20140313 12:46:09< irker208> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 175ae9c899cf / po/wesnoth-dw/de.po: updated German translation http://git.io/2MgLig
20140313 12:46:49< Rhonda> But your last line is more trickier, one syllable too much.  Replacing "only" with "yet" or "just" or "sole" or something along that lines, or removing the "I" fixes that line, too.
20140313 12:50:03< vultraz> There is a wesnoth poetry page http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Poetry_of_Wesnoth
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20140313 12:57:52< zookeeper> Rhonda, oh right, i somehow didn't notice that only has 2
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20140313 13:47:05< Rhonda> zookeeper: That's why I usually speak them to myself. ;)
20140313 13:49:21< Rhonda> vultraz: I remember I've done some poetry translation back then, I wonder if it was the sof one.
20140313 13:49:35< Rhonda> wesbot: whatis sof
20140313 13:49:36< wesbot> Rhonda: sof stands for Sceptre of Fire
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20140313 14:35:39< sachith500> hello Crab_ I keep getting the AI_CA_GOTO file is missing error
20140313 14:36:06< sachith500> on utils/ai-test
20140313 14:36:26< sachith500> were the file names changed perhaps?
20140313 14:37:29< sachith500> I found the action in ai_candidate_actions
20140313 14:39:31< vultraz> Rhonda: likely, since it's used as the SoF campaign description
20140313 14:42:05< sachith500> it works with idle AI
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20140313 18:03:35< gfgtdf> is there something like a mp test secnario ?
20140313 18:03:52< Crab_> sachith: the macro itself is here - https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/core/macros/ai_candidate_actions.cfg#L52 . see http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36680 for some ideas
20140313 18:05:12< Crab_> gfgtdf: no, not really - I think you can make wesnoth run a game in local multiplayer mode via command-line args, but not ask it to connect to server
20140313 18:07:58< gfgtdf> gfgtdf: that wouldn't help me since i want to test effects that only appera in networked mp. But ty for teh information.
20140313 18:08:13< gfgtdf> s/gfgtdf/Crab_
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20140313 19:10:41< Soliton> you can make wesnoth connect to a server with -s but not create and start a game in one go.
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20140313 19:57:33< Goracore> are there any khalifate campaigns yet?
20140313 19:59:13< zookeeper> nope
20140313 20:06:51< Aishiko_laptop> Goracore, this your chance to make some!!
20140313 20:09:27< zookeeper> i don't think i've even heard anyone plan on making one.
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20140313 20:12:53< gfgtdf> does anyone know why we check for side != resources::controller->current_side() in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/persist_var.cpp#L127  ?
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20140313 20:19:59< Aishiko_laptop> it obviously is checking to see if the current side is the one that's loaded, my guess is to make sure when you connect to the server your pointing at your side and not say a computer side you just played in SP
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20140313 20:23:27< Aishiko_laptop> I mean in theory you just do an assignment before the if statement like "side = resources::controller->current_side();" and elimnate that part of the if statement but before you do I'd ask upthorn or AI086 or mark de wever.  They are the ones that look to do most of the work on that file
20140313 20:23:34< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, ^^
20140313 20:23:55-!- Trodon [~Zoltan@fugediz.sch.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140313 20:25:03< gfgtdf> but teh interesitng situation is when (*resources::teams)[side - 1].is_local() is false and (side != resources::controller->current_side()) is true
20140313 20:25:05< gfgtdf> the
20140313 20:25:30< gfgtdf> and we currently get a oos in that situation
20140313 20:26:00< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, well in that change it and try to make it go oos after you change it
20140313 20:26:37< Aishiko_laptop> once I get my patch ready for push, I'm going to ask that others try to break it
20140313 20:26:52< gfgtdf> hmm ye but i fear that there is also serversided code involved that i dont know
20140313 20:27:02< gfgtdf> to break what ?
20140313 20:27:17< Aishiko_laptop> my patch, find something that I missed or overlooked
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20140313 20:28:08< gfgtdf> ah ok
20140313 20:29:38< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, my suggest is change it and then see if it breaks
20140313 20:30:22< Aishiko_laptop> at best you fix it at worse you find that you broke and just revert the change and try something else =)
20140313 20:30:52< gfgtdf> Aishiko_laptop: something else ?
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20140313 20:33:24< Aishiko_laptop> if your change doesn't fix the problem think about it and try something else to fix it
20140313 20:34:59< gfgtdf> ah i thought you suggested fixing something else instead :)
20140313 20:35:13< Aishiko_laptop> no no dpm't give up
20140313 20:37:42< gfgtdf> the offical dev server doesnt accept 1.13-dev version ?
20140313 20:38:24< Aishiko_laptop> you should go into a server lobby for that version
20140313 20:39:04< gfgtdf> what do i have to do to 'go into a server lobby' ?
20140313 20:39:21< Aishiko_laptop> just connect to the server
20140313 20:40:17< gfgtdf> what ip ?
20140313 20:41:15< iceiceice> we should have unit_tests for this kind of thing
20140313 20:41:17< iceiceice> ideally commented 
20140313 20:42:55< Aishiko_laptop> gfgtdf, the one that says offical server
20140313 20:43:02< Aishiko_laptop> it should be automatically there
20140313 20:43:30< gfgtdf> but i cannot connect to that because it doesnt accept 1.13-dev
20140313 20:43:44< Aishiko_laptop> then a bug report needs to be submitted =)
20140313 20:51:17< Aishiko_laptop> I wonder if shadowm knows who maintains the MP server, given he does the forums
20140313 20:52:12< gfgtdf> idk how it was durign the last '-dev' versions.
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20140313 21:50:50< shadowm> gfgtdf: Try now.
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20140313 21:53:55< gfgtdf> shadowm: works ty
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20140313 22:06:30< shadowm> 07:18:39 <vultraz> hah! I found the forerunner of the frontpage
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20140313 22:06:54< shadowm> vultraz: Exactly how do you define 'forerunner'? The frontpage already existed for long before that.
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 14 00:00:35 2014