--- Log opened Thu Mar 27 00:00:34 2014
20140327 00:03:07-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 00:11:21-!- adityapande [ca4eaca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.172.162] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 00:14:42-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 00:26:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20140327 00:30:12-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-75-96.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: bye]
20140327 00:32:18-!- adityapande [ca4eaca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.172.162] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140327 00:33:54-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 00:37:54-!- cib0 [~cib@p5DD21A9C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140327 00:48:59-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 00:49:44-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@d226137.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]]
20140327 00:52:49< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Do you think we should make a new tag for metadata, or add define= to the existing tags?
20140327 01:07:27-!- irker673 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 01:07:27< irker673> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 9e6b780306b0 / data/ai/lua/ai_helper.lua: ai_helper.get_closest_location(): fix bug with tags in SLF http://git.io/WhdlIw
20140327 01:07:27< irker673> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 2d458b642a74 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_messenger_move.lua: Messenger MAI: fix bug with escort units blocking the messenger http://git.io/1zI2Rw
20140327 01:07:29-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140327 01:09:25-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-22-92-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 01:09:25< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2125 (master - 2d458b6 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20140327 01:09:25< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/21640939
20140327 01:09:25-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-22-92-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20140327 01:09:54< mattsc> Wow, that was quick ...
20140327 01:10:53< irker673> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 a0475cadef13 / data/ai/lua/ai_helper.lua: ai_helper.get_closest_location(): fix bug with tags in SLF http://git.io/m_9wLw
20140327 01:10:55< irker673> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 0c73f26ec76e / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_messenger_move.lua: Messenger MAI: fix bug with escort units blocking the messenger http://git.io/rFpLKA
20140327 01:13:02-!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Gambit, trademark
20140327 01:13:10-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-22-92-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 01:13:10< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2126 (1.12 - 0c73f26 : mattsc): The build has errored.
20140327 01:13:10< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/21641136
20140327 01:13:10-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-23-22-92-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20140327 01:48:39-!- ujdf [~V@72-69-ftth.on.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 01:49:23-!- Netsplit over, joins: Gambit, trademark
20140327 01:49:54-!- {V} [~V@72-69-ftth.on.nl] has quit [Disconnected by services]
20140327 01:50:00-!- ujdf is now known as {V}
20140327 01:51:24-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140327 02:02:30-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 02:05:36-!- iwaim [~iwaim@2001:2c0:40e:2002:0:4:14:80] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 02:07:35-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140327 02:08:13< mattsc> iceiceice: Is there anything you need from me right now.  I don’t have a good answer to your last question you addressed to me.
20140327 02:08:48< mattsc> My guess is that there are few, if any, scenarios in mainline that don’t have a side with controller=human even for a single turn.
20140327 02:11:12< iceiceice> yeah that's what i would guess also
20140327 02:11:51< mattsc> as for obscure UMC campaigns, it’s hard to say (and essentially impossible to predict).
20140327 02:12:08< iceiceice> i only would care about breaking some mainline campaign which we wouldn't notice
20140327 02:12:56< mattsc> Mu guess is that the vast majority of the victory_when…=no campaigns are of the “defeat all enemy units” type.
20140327 02:13:20< iceiceice> what about these like cutscene ones? like utbs for instance
20140327 02:13:30< iceiceice> i imagine those are configured any number of ways
20140327 02:13:53< mattsc> Yes - those would be my biggest concern.
20140327 02:14:23< iceiceice> i would have to look at what grep said, i think theres only about 30 files that have "victory_when_enemies_defeated=no"
20140327 02:14:30< mattsc> It might be best (and probably easiest) to debug-cheat yourself through UtBS…
20140327 02:14:38< iceiceice> there may only be 1 or 2 files with no human sides if any
20140327 02:14:46< iceiceice> i wonder if theres some way we could use grep
20140327 02:15:03< iceiceice> to just figure out if there are any mainline scenarios without human controllers
20140327 02:15:14< mattsc> grep -A 1000 -B 1000 | grep -v controller=human 
20140327 02:15:17< mattsc> or something …
20140327 02:15:36< iceiceice> yeah exactly
20140327 02:15:44< mattsc> actually, no, the other way around (without the -v), but something like that would probably work.
20140327 02:16:15< mattsc> On the other hand, if it’s only 30 files, it’s often faster to just look at them one by one than come up with a clever scheme to do it automatically
20140327 02:16:29< iceiceice> maybe
20140327 02:16:47< iceiceice> i actually wrote the grep script that generates the replay descriptions on the replay server right now
20140327 02:17:12< iceiceice> the scenario files are a bit different...
20140327 02:17:36< mattsc> you’d also have to check for changes in controller though.  Thie biggest potential problem I can think of are scenarios that start with a human controlled side, then something happens and for a turn or two control is turned over to the AIs, then it goes back to human control.
20140327 02:17:55< iceiceice> yeah.
20140327 02:18:25< mattsc> I think I am even pulling a dirty trick like that in one of my campaigns …
20140327 02:18:59< mattsc> But anyway, it’s pretty much impossible to think of all eventualities the combined UMC authors of Wesnoth have come up with.
20140327 02:19:16< iceiceice> what do you propose?
20140327 02:19:41< mattsc> Let’s make sure mainline works.  And I will test all the different cases that I found that make my AI scenarios fail.
20140327 02:19:45< iceiceice> i would propose that you pull my branch and run some ai test scenarios
20140327 02:19:47< iceiceice> yeah
20140327 02:20:02< iceiceice> and we can each look at the various mainline files that seem relevant
20140327 02:20:11< iceiceice> and then i think we can commit if we dont find any obvious problems
20140327 02:20:30< mattsc> And if you have any particular doubt that a certain combination of things works, you should test it specifically.
20140327 02:20:54< iceiceice> yeah
20140327 02:20:59< iceiceice> whats the command to jump to a scenario?
20140327 02:21:01< mattsc> I assume you know how to cheat yourself through an entire mainline campaign in half an hour?
20140327 02:21:04< iceiceice> in a campaign?
20140327 02:21:08< iceiceice> i actually have never done that
20140327 02:21:11< mattsc> :cl
20140327 02:21:15< iceiceice> ok
20140327 02:21:17< mattsc> short for :choose_level
20140327 02:21:34< iceiceice> and i guess theres debug mode also but its slower
20140327 02:22:00< mattsc> well, you sometime need to play through certain turns/events or the next scenario does not work
20140327 02:22:16< iceiceice> i see
20140327 02:23:07< mattsc> For example, if S3 recalls a required unit, but the unit only appears when you move your leader south of y=20 (or something) in S2, just skipping through S2 won’t work.
20140327 02:23:20< iceiceice> yeah i see
20140327 02:23:34< mattsc> That’s why I am estimating half an hour to cheat your way through a campaign rather than 5 min  ;)
20140327 02:23:43< iceiceice> alright, i wont work on this right away, i have to finish up on my other branch
20140327 02:23:51< iceiceice> but i think it sounds like a plan
20140327 02:24:18< mattsc> no worries - I’d like extending the Messenger MAI behavior to multiple messengers first as well
20140327 02:24:21-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Quit: tomreyn]
20140327 02:24:30< mattsc> I’d like to finish extending ...
20140327 02:24:53< mattsc> I’m not worried about the animals scenario not working as long as it will be fixed by 1.11.13
20140327 02:30:39< iceiceice> i think its worthwhile to fix this as long as it doesnt break anything in mainline
20140327 02:32:16< mattsc> agreed  (AFAICT)
20140327 02:37:59-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 02:53:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 02:54:25-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 03:02:44-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 03:07:16-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azmwwaiihxwcpmif] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 03:18:04-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-37-247.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 03:28:39-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-204-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 03:39:15< RiftWalker> So in config objects, each tag is a child config, and everything else is an attribute of its tag (config)?
20140327 03:41:53-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@x2f4e7a1.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 03:45:05-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 03:45:47-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20140327 03:50:42-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 03:55:22-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140327 04:02:50< nurupo> <shadowm> But I suppose the last part might not be too easy if you aren't familiarized with Git. <-- btw, some good git/github guides to point contributors to http://guides.github.com/ , http://try.github.io/ and http://git-scm.com/ (documentation section)
20140327 04:02:54< nurupo> might be useful
20140327 04:10:56-!- irker673 [~irker@ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20140327 04:22:07-!- justinzane [~justinzan@67.21.190.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140327 04:22:29-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 04:24:07-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@cpe-065-191-176-226.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 04:30:31-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140327 04:31:55< Aishiko_laptop> wesbot, seen mattsc 
20140327 04:31:55< wesbot> Aishiko_laptop: Queried user last spoke 1h 59m ago.  mattsc is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20140327 04:49:39-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 04:50:29-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f050183207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 04:50:41-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f050183207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit]
20140327 04:51:57-!- justinzane [~justinzan@host-12-172-184-180.nctv.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 04:54:23-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 05:00:11-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140327 05:03:02< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: what’s up?  (I’m about to sign off)
20140327 05:09:27< mattsc> Aishiko_laptop: sorry, I have to go.  Just post your question and I’ll get back to you in the morning.
20140327 05:09:35-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20140327 05:17:10-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azmwwaiihxwcpmif] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20140327 05:32:06-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140327 05:57:35-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 06:20:20< Aishiko_laptop> matthsc, from the beginning I was considering having a config file that would be read that would have only image numbers and the corners in it to define an image in a spritesheet.  Do you think adding something like that to the config file for each unit and using that to tell where each image was in the sheet when called for in an animation?
20140327 06:22:44-!- knotwork_ [~markm@142.68.84.150] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 06:22:44-!- knotwork_ [~markm@142.68.84.150] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 06:22:44-!- knotwork_ [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 06:25:02-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@cpe-065-191-176-226.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140327 06:25:41-!- knotwork [~markm@unaffiliated/knotwork] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 06:31:13-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 06:33:43-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: End Transmission.]
20140327 06:43:25< zookeeper> what's this about requiring even the history of a PR to conform to the commit-often idea?
20140327 06:49:41-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@x2f4e7a1.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 06:49:41-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 06:58:33< zookeeper> if i'd write a feature i'd certainly make it a single commit, because otherwise there'd be a history of all sorts of garbage debug code that would only get be complains about how we don't want that kind of stuff in the history.
20140327 07:01:38-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140327 07:02:23-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 07:15:18< iceiceice> yeah so you rebase that stuff out of it at the end
20140327 07:15:21< iceiceice> and then everyone is happy
20140327 07:16:19< zookeeper> no idea what that means
20140327 07:16:28< zookeeper> but it's probably not important that i do, though
20140327 07:16:46< zookeeper> that i do understand what that means, i mean
20140327 07:17:05< iceiceice> the point is you can clean up your history at the end if there's messy things
20140327 07:17:25< iceiceice> if you are seriously saying that you think its good practice to write one commit with nearly 2000 lines and creating several new files
20140327 07:17:32< iceiceice> its defintiely much less maintainable 
20140327 07:19:42< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by Max [ 03-27-2014 07:19 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568672 ]
20140327 07:20:51< zookeeper> sure, but in a similar vein it's kinda backwards that people need to spend serious time on going back and cleaning up code that might not even be in the finished product, just because history needs to be nice and tidy
20140327 07:22:05< iceiceice> sure i guess if you spend too much time on it, you overwhelm the time saved when you have to fix a bug later
20140327 07:22:44< iceiceice> but we've definitely seen a couple examples recently where people using the "commit often" practice saved us a ton of time
20140327 07:24:28< zookeeper> i see
20140327 07:38:28-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 07:49:00-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-127-204.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 07:53:27-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-127-204.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Client Quit]
20140327 08:05:38-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 08:08:19-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 08:18:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 08:20:46-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 08:25:45-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 08:25:55-!- trademark_ [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit]
20140327 08:26:16-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 08:34:23-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 09:55:47-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 09:57:50-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 10:09:02-!- Spoffy [~chatzilla@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 10:09:09-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host]
20140327 10:15:02-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-204-228.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 10:19:31-!- stikonas [~gentoo@maths-pgs-002.maths.ed.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 10:19:42-!- stikonas [~gentoo@maths-pgs-002.maths.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 10:19:42-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 10:52:45-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 10:53:20-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 10:54:26-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 10:54:46-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 11:07:11-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 11:50:00-!- Spoffy [~chatzilla@152.78.175.8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140327 12:05:35-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g228136076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:12:10-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:13:53-!- spoffy [~spoffy@dhcp-200-32.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:27:02-!- molgrum [~molgrum@212.85.89.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 12:39:49-!- molgrum [~molgrum@212.85.89.43] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:54:14-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 12:54:51-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:55:07-!- spoffy [~spoffy@dhcp-200-32.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140327 12:58:53-!- spoffy [~spoffy@dhcp-200-32.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 12:59:08-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 13:33:26-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 13:47:47-!- spoffy [~spoffy@dhcp-200-32.wireless.soton.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 13:57:58-!- happygrue [~happygrue@c-66-30-155-184.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 13:57:58-!- happygrue [~happygrue@c-66-30-155-184.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 13:57:58-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 14:13:34-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 14:30:09-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f050183207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 14:30:33< gfgtdf> wesbot: senn lipk
20140327 14:30:39< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen lipk
20140327 14:30:39< wesbot> gfgtdf: Sorry, I don't know of lipk.
20140327 14:31:52< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen fendin
20140327 14:31:52< wesbot> gfgtdf: Sorry, I don't know of fendin.
20140327 14:31:59< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen fendin_
20140327 14:31:59< wesbot> gfgtdf: Sorry, I don't know of fendin_.
20140327 14:32:04< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen fabi
20140327 14:32:04< wesbot> gfgtdf: Person, who 3d 2h ago used nick fabi, last spoke 5d 19h ago.  1d 17h ago as fendrin was here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: Konversation terminated!
20140327 14:32:55< gfgtdf> lipk: can you tell me more about 46e09efb432a381d8709ea8b5e293413441ad6de ? especialy whether is was more about small or about big maps ?
20140327 14:34:50< gfgtdf> fabi: i ask you becasue you did the last changes to it i think: when i play wesnoth on large maps, i have very big lag, and i came to the comclusion, that it caused by the minimap drawing ,do you think you can fix this ?
20140327 14:39:09< mattsc> Aishiko: Are you sure it’s me whom you are trying to ask that question?  I’ve not really been following the discussion all that closely.
20140327 14:41:27< gfgtdf> fabi, lipk: my profilera says that most time is spend by the final call of scale_surface_sharp, and the second most time is spend in teh call of preferences::minimap_draw_terrain,  and preferences::minimap_terrain_coding, i think the most easy solution would be moving the calls to preferences::... outside the loop, and to use scale_surface instad of scale_surface_sharp for large maps,. But...
20140327 14:41:29< gfgtdf> ...maybe someone has a better one
20140327 14:52:13< mattsc> Argh.  WML keys may not have hyphens or (most) other special characters in them, right?
20140327 14:53:08< mattsc> I just noticed that some of the additional features I’ve added to some MAIs on users requests make savegames invalid.  :P
20140327 14:55:20-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140327 15:05:39-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 15:21:42-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140327 15:23:42< Soliton> zookeeper: it's good because a) they learn a better workflow and b) it makes it *much* easier to actually review the changes. (and thus increases the chances that the change is accepted)  it should perhaps be pointed out more that asking people to rewrite their commit history is not done to torture them. :-P
20140327 15:25:27< Soliton> zookeeper: i think the increasing attention we put on our commit history is less because of the switch to git and more because wesnoth is getting bigger and bigger and maintenance is now far more important than getting lots of new features.
20140327 15:28:29< Soliton> gfgtdf: i won't have time to look at your pr again before the weekend. it'd be good to get others to review as well since i'm mostly just looking at the server-side changes anyway.
20140327 15:31:49< Soliton> mattsc: "Also, tag and key names follow a special format. They will contain only alphanumeric characters and underscores; in particular, they will not contain +, -, or whitespace." if it's possible to insert invalid tags/keys through lua or whatever maybe we could add some checks somewhere...
20140327 15:32:52< gfgtdf> Soliton: cant you just look at the sererside changes now? (it just one commit with 60 lines from which 20 are comments b7107c9f8f56eb5b7c40ce31ec90142bb8026615)
20140327 15:35:00< gfgtdf> becasue from what i have heaed you are one onyl one how knows good about the server
20140327 15:35:25< zookeeper> Soliton, i disapprove of the notion that everything cannot be blamed on git :|
20140327 15:38:34< gfgtdf> Soliton: or maybe a more specific question: is simewml attributes method to_int() save to use even if the attribute might not represent an int valure ?
20140327 15:58:38-!- cib0 [~cib@p5DD207BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:02:58-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:15:23-!- Spoffy [~chatzilla@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:23:50-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:25:17-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 16:27:03-!- Octalot [~noct@31.185.149.167] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140327 16:31:35-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 16:32:33< happygrue> Does anyone know anything about this:  http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=40225&view=unread&sid=ec6ac926be42043b60d181e3e8a3c6ed#unread
20140327 16:32:34< happygrue> ?
20140327 16:33:07< happygrue> too busy to test it myself just now, but later today I'll try to reproduce it.
20140327 16:37:13-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:39:07-!- Octalot [~noct@31.185.149.167] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:39:30-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:43:43-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140327 16:44:51-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 16:46:50 * shadowm vaguely remembers proposing adding tag/attribute name validity checks to the config class before.
20140327 16:49:22< mattsc> Soliton (and shadowm): yeah, I know that that’s the standard.  What’s happening in my case is that some MAIs need to store information that persists across save/load cycles (such as what waypoint is the next one to head toward).
20140327 16:50:21< mattsc> Then I extended a couple MAIs to work with several units on some UMC authors’ requests, instead of a single one (which is good).  So then I also need to store the information about which unit is heading to which WP next.
20140327 16:51:42< mattsc> At least in one case, I had this stored in a way that the key(s) stored in the save file included the unit id.  It’s not particularly hard to take care of, I just didn’t think about the fact that unit ids can contain special characters.
20140327 16:53:34< mattsc> (and I had not noticed this before because the units in my test scenarios have custom ids that only contain letters)
20140327 16:55:53-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:00:01-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 17:03:18< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by pauxlo [ 03-27-2014 17:02 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568691 ]
20140327 17:04:49-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:05:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:06:55< zookeeper> happygrue, nope, i looked at it but didn't see anything suspicious
20140327 17:07:56< happygrue> zookeeper: That sounds troubling then, if it is such an ugly crash.
20140327 17:10:18-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:13:38-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 17:15:59-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140327 17:37:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140327 17:37:46< zookeeper> happygrue, doesn't help that the code is so... uh, unwieldy, either :p
20140327 17:37:46< zookeeper> nor that he gives no context
20140327 17:37:46< zookeeper> if it's truly the existence of that macro definition which causes the crash then that'd be easy to figure out
20140327 17:37:46< zookeeper> ...but it's not, so not knowing what his code does and in what context isn't helping
20140327 17:41:32< Soliton> mattsc: ok, using WML values as keys elsewhere is a bug in your code. (you're not the first with such a bug either.) still if that'd be validated at least when serializing the config that'd help detect the bug earlier.
20140327 17:42:17< mattsc> Soliton: yep - I agree with both parts of that
20140327 17:43:19-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 17:43:31< iceiceice> it would be helpful if he gave an actual error message
20140327 17:43:32-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:43:45< iceiceice> its pretty hard for us to sit here and guess i would think
20140327 17:49:29< Soliton> iceiceice, happygrue, gfgtdf: the client who controls an AI side is in control of that side. that should definitely not change at least on the server side. since it's not useful to just believe some client that he is not in control of a side while issueing commands for that side...
20140327 17:50:19< iceiceice> yeah i agree
20140327 17:50:22< iceiceice> there are no plans to change that
20140327 17:50:35< iceiceice> at least i dont plan to :p
20140327 17:50:41< Soliton> good. just clarifying your earlier discussion.
20140327 17:50:49< gfgtdf> me nether 
20140327 17:54:34-!- noy [~Noy@96.48.148.184] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 17:54:42-!- noy [~Noy@96.48.148.184] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 17:54:42-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:01:52-!- neXyon [~neXyon@85-127-127-204.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:03:06-!- shadowm_desktop2 [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:04:18-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Killed (rajaniemi.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))]
20140327 18:04:18-!- shadowm_desktop2 is now known as shadowm_desktop
20140327 18:13:57-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:17:34-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140327 18:17:59-!- Spoffy [~chatzilla@152.78.175.8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140327 18:28:09-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:28:21-!- Octalot [~noct@31.185.149.167] has quit []
20140327 18:49:46-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:54:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 18:54:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 18:54:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140327 18:57:36-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:02:25-!- Spoffy [~chatzilla@152.78.175.8] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:02:32-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140327 19:04:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 19:05:17-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:06:09-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:07:14-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 19:20:01-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 19:20:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:22:31-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:25:01-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 19:25:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:30:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 19:30:17-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140327 19:30:18-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:31:47-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:34:07-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140327 19:36:15-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:36:32-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:36:32-!- stikonas [~gentoo@cpc18-sgyl27-2-0-cust35.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 19:36:32-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 19:55:06-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140327 19:56:56-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 20:00:22-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:00:24-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:04:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 20:07:10-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140327 20:08:32-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:14:23-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:22:33< thunderstruck> 20140327 00:52:49< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Do you think we should make a new tag for metadata, or add define= to the existing tags?
20140327 20:22:49< thunderstruck> What "existing tags" are we talking about?
20140327 20:24:56< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen jamit
20140327 20:24:56< wesbot> gfgtdf: The person with the nick jamit last spoke 24d 19h ago.  24d 19h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving.
20140327 20:25:17< gfgtdf> any1 knows when jamit comes back ?
20140327 20:34:00< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: [multiplayer] and [era]
20140327 20:34:10< RiftWalker> maybe [modification]
20140327 20:34:43< RiftWalker> [scenario]
20140327 20:35:18< thunderstruck> Would it work for [scenario]?
20140327 20:35:31< thunderstruck> It's already in [campaign] which has define.
20140327 20:36:00-!- timotei_ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20140327 20:36:41-!- timotei_ [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:36:49< gfgtdf> why do we need different tags for mp and sp ?
20140327 20:38:02< RiftWalker> Well, the other option, imo, is to make a new tag that basically exists only to define a preproc define
20140327 20:38:14< RiftWalker> And then that tag could be used anywhere
20140327 20:39:03< RiftWalker> From a coding standpoint, the difference is actually kind of trivial, except that it would probably be easier to only have to look in one place
20140327 20:41:18< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: As you mentioned before, the code really is spread out over several files, so I'm still trying to grasp it completely and figure out where this should be implemented. I've added some notes to my proposal.
20140327 20:42:49< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: And do you want me to look at it?
20140327 20:44:45< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Yes, please. Maybe you can shed some light. The relevant changes are under their own header.
20140327 20:45:22< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SoC2014_RiftWalker_Unify_SP_MP#Avoiding_namespace_collision.2F_improving_config_loading
20140327 20:50:00< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: "Use the same define. This would rule out isolating parts of scenarios within campaigns"
20140327 20:50:16< thunderstruck> What does this mean?
20140327 20:50:17-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:50:31< thunderstruck> Are you talking about game_classification class?
20140327 20:51:05< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Yes. game_classification.campaign_define, specifically
20140327 20:51:06< iceiceice> does anyone know the proper way to test if a config is invalid?
20140327 20:51:11< iceiceice> as might be returned from "find_child"?
20140327 20:51:21< iceiceice> i'm grepping through but its taking a while to find a good example
20140327 20:51:37< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Well, if you use that for era, then we loose campaign's define.
20140327 20:52:26< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Right. I think it would be better to add one or more new define variables to game_classification
20140327 20:52:34< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Yup.
20140327 20:52:39< RiftWalker> I'll be right back.
20140327 20:52:52< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: "Alternatively, it may be possible, in the process of trying to implement this, to make the whole system more modular.
20140327 20:52:55< thunderstruck> Maybe it is, and I just can't see it yet."
20140327 20:53:05< thunderstruck> This basically says nothing to me.
20140327 20:53:31< thunderstruck> It would be good if there would be more structure in your proposal so that it would be easier to read.
20140327 20:54:12< iceiceice> nm i figured it out
20140327 20:56:07-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:56:07-!- fabi [~fabi@88-134-21-163-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host]
20140327 20:56:07-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:56:16-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 20:56:31-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 20:56:45-!- fabi [~fabi@wesnoth/developer/fendrin] has quit [Client Quit]
20140327 20:57:10-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140327 20:59:10-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:00:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 21:01:19< RiftWalker> So the main questions i need to answer right now are: where to set the value in game_classification, how the classification is passed around, and where to call add_preproc_define.
20140327 21:01:31-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:01:41< RiftWalker> The first one being most perplexing at the moment.
20140327 21:02:34< RiftWalker> /s/add_/scoped_
20140327 21:02:52< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Overall, it should still be similar to campaign_define.
20140327 21:03:18< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Because the idea is the same.
20140327 21:06:09< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: You seem to already understand the problem and how it could be addressed. So, maybe, it's more worthwhile to work on other parts of your proposal?
20140327 21:06:24< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: (it's just a thought)
20140327 21:06:33< thunderstruck> This is completely up to you.
20140327 21:07:01< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Okay. Yeah, I think you're right. What do you think needs the most work?
20140327 21:07:43< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: "Create new GUI's to pull it all together" - there's very little information about this.
20140327 21:07:59< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: And it's also the kind of thing where many might disagree with you.
20140327 21:08:08< thunderstruck> E.g. people might not want drastic changes.
20140327 21:08:28< thunderstruck> So, that's something worth to look at.
20140327 21:08:50< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: I see. Well, there's a few options there. I'll work on getting more details fleshed out.
20140327 21:09:24< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: "Implement the option to assign AI's to sides in campaigns."
20140327 21:09:28< RiftWalker> Try to get more of a coherent logical flow/progression to the whole thing
20140327 21:09:35< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Are you talking about SP or MP here?
20140327 21:10:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 21:10:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:10:27< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Actually, I'm pretty sure that already works unless the content creator specifies against it.
20140327 21:10:49< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Yes, that's why I'm asking.
20140327 21:11:05< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: And I think it's also important to consider implications of using MP codepath for SP.
20140327 21:11:25< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: MP codepath is still less stable.
20140327 21:11:35< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: And so SP would suffer.
20140327 21:12:58< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Yeah, I was doing some testing and one obvious thing was that when loading sp through mp, the game loads with playmp_controller instead of playsingle_controller
20140327 21:13:15< RiftWalker> So there's certainly at least a few things to sort out
20140327 21:13:39< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Yes, so it would be good to have it all in your proposal.
20140327 21:13:58< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: And don't forget that we expect some patches or code demos.
20140327 21:14:41< thunderstruck> You already got one pull request, but it would to see more of your code.
20140327 21:14:49< thunderstruck> would be good*
20140327 21:15:44< RiftWalker> Well, I could probably get the define= thing coded up within the week.
20140327 21:16:06< RiftWalker> Would non-wesnoth-related code be useful?
20140327 21:16:06< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: I was having in mind something smaller :)
20140327 21:16:20< RiftWalker> hmmm
20140327 21:16:22< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: It's a bit risky to rush with that.
20140327 21:17:13< RiftWalker> how about the play controllers? getting playsingle to load if there's only one player?
20140327 21:17:16-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140327 21:17:48< RiftWalker> or depending on the config type=
20140327 21:18:56< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: You can't really depend on type= because it might be =hybrid.
20140327 21:19:29< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Well, it's up to you. Even if you'll struggle with it, you could show me what you got so far.
20140327 21:19:55< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Or you could just do it in a hacky fashion straight away.
20140327 21:20:49< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: I'll figure something out. When should I have any code in by?
20140327 21:21:45< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: I think there's still about a week till mentors have to make a decision.
20140327 21:22:26-!- lipkab [~the_new_l@host-91-147-212-189.biatv.hu] has quit [Quit: Vannak idők, mikor menni kell]
20140327 21:22:27< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Okay. Thanks for your help. Any other tips before I dive back into this?
20140327 21:23:19-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 21:23:24< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: Yes. I recommend to try to get a better idea of a whole picture rather of many small details.
20140327 21:23:33-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:24:51< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: It's very likely that if you'd do this project, something would change because you'll run into some obstacles or something.
20140327 21:25:37< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Hmm, good advice. I'm trying.
20140327 21:26:21< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: I did at least a few things completely different than I wrote about them in my proposal.
20140327 21:27:14< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: I doubt it's really possible to plan everything very carefully unless you already have a very good knowledge of the codebase.
20140327 21:27:25< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: So I should make my proposal broader, in a sense?
20140327 21:28:57< RiftWalker> I think in a depth-first manner, so I'll often get caught up in details if I'm not careful.
20140327 21:29:35< thunderstruck> RiftWalker: It is really up to you. I don't think that it now contains unnecessary small details.
20140327 21:30:02-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.208.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 21:30:16-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:31:57< RiftWalker> thunderstruck: Hmm, I'll work on it. Thanks for the help.
20140327 21:37:01-!- irker024 [~irker@ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 21:37:01< irker024> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 62f709aaa378 / data/ai/micro_ais/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Messenger MAI: allow several messengers to be controlled by AI http://git.io/VBtXtQ
20140327 21:37:01< irker024> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master c72c8e7ff23e / data/ai/micro_ais/ (cas/ca_messenger_f_next_waypoint.lua micro_ai_wml_tag.lua): Messenger MAI: add optional invert_order= key http://git.io/eUvpMA
20140327 21:38:44< mattsc> wesbot: seen Velensk
20140327 21:38:44< wesbot> mattsc: The person with the nick Velensk last spoke 22d 4h ago.  22d 4h ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving
20140327 21:47:27-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140327 22:00:20-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:01:17-!- exciton_ [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 22:01:19-!- ancestral [~ancestral@75-161-229-57.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:03:08-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140327 22:05:18-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:11:15-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 22:11:30-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:18:55< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by iceiceice [ 03-27-2014 22:16 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568705 ]
20140327 22:25:24-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-117-31.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:25:24< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2137 (master - c72c8e7 : mattsc): The build passed.
20140327 22:25:24< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/21715049
20140327 22:25:24-!- travis-ci [~travis-ci@ec2-54-197-117-31.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #wesnoth-dev []
20140327 22:30:03-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 22:30:39-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@g228136076.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140327 22:35:17-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:37:17< shadowm> iceiceice: KISS applies to gameplay, not engine implementation.
20140327 22:37:50< iceiceice> KISS is a general software development principle though
20140327 22:38:03< iceiceice> i'm using it in that sense, not in the sense of FPI list etc.
20140327 22:38:07< shadowm> No, here.
20140327 22:38:29< shadowm> Of course you should strive for simplicity in code design whenever possible, but you should also be ready to make compromises.
20140327 22:38:32-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140327 22:38:42< shadowm> And as you can see, we have made plenty of those over time.
20140327 22:39:15< shadowm> So you aren't violating the KISS rule with your proposal because there is no such a rule.
20140327 22:39:29< iceiceice> i'm just trying to reiterate support for this paragraph of Dave's "Wesnoth Philosophy" article:
20140327 22:39:30< iceiceice> The idea of KISS is that the feature must be easy enough to program that before the programmer starts working on it, they have a very clear and strong understanding of how they're going to make it work. Not a 'yes I can do this but it is kinda complicated'. Rather they should be thinking 'this is so stupid and simple that it's really really easy for me to do'. So I decided on a simple rule for the game: a feature would be add
20140327 22:39:30< iceiceice> ed only if I knew immediately how to implement it. I wouldn't make vague promises to myself about features that would be later added, but which I had no idea how to do.
20140327 22:40:17-!- exciton [chuck-the-@89.109.220.74] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:40:43< shadowm> "They are more like guidelines, not rules."
20140327 22:41:05< iceiceice> ok i guess maybe i should have worded differently
20140327 22:41:10< iceiceice> anyways i think we might be in agreement
20140327 22:41:41-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@f054174162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:44:44-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f050183207.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140327 22:44:51-!- gfgtdf_ is now known as gfgtdf
20140327 22:48:27-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@wesnoth/mp-mod/Duthlet] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 22:51:01-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140327 22:57:01-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140327 23:01:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 23:05:20-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054174162.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]]
20140327 23:13:38-!- RiftWalker [~RiftWalke@129.59.115.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140327 23:20:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140327 23:22:32-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 23:48:45-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140327 23:58:23-!- ToBeFree [ToBeFree@wikimedia/ToBeFree] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140327 23:58:57-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
--- Log closed Fri Mar 28 00:00:36 2014