--- Log opened Fri Mar 28 00:00:36 2014
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20140328 01:25:04< mattsc> shadowm: hi.  A couple things:
20140328 01:25:35< mattsc> 1. I know you had something else going on recently, so just asking whether you saw my updated list of OS X issues
20140328 01:26:18< mattsc> 2. You said that the MAI ‘change’ action should be renamed to ‘replace’.  TBH, I really don’t care one way or the other, but I wanted to ask: why?
20140328 01:27:17< mattsc> I meant it as: change the MAI behavior.  And yes, it is done by replacing the CAs.  But so what?  Am I missing some convention here?
20140328 01:28:53< mattsc> Also, if we follow zookeeper’s suggestion not to break backwards compatibility, I should keep ‘change’ as a possible keywaord, and add ‘replace’ to it.  And while we’re at it, I could add ‘modify’ as well.
20140328 01:30:01< mattsc> (Btw, this isn’t meant to sound cynical.  As I said, I have no personal opinion on this, just asking for the motivation.  I’m fine with it one way or another … or the third.)
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20140328 01:31:57< gfgtdf> is it posible to resize the current playing map in wml ?
20140328 01:31:58< gfgtdf> or lua
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20140328 01:32:34< gfgtdf> hi icieiceice
20140328 01:33:04< iceiceice> hi
20140328 01:33:58< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice: do you know whhter a scenario designer can rezze teh map during game with wml/lua ?
20140328 01:34:05< gfgtdf> resize*
20140328 01:34:13< iceiceice> i think the answer is yes
20140328 01:34:24< iceiceice> i think its on the wiki somewhere...
20140328 01:34:27< iceiceice> not sure exactly
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20140328 01:35:52< mattsc> gfgtdf: you mean this?  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DirectActionsWML#.5Breplace_map.5D
20140328 01:36:27< gfgtdf> mattsc: ye exactly do you know what happends with the shroud/fog when one used that ?
20140328 01:36:58< mattsc> gfgtdf: I don’t remember.  I don’t like fogged/shrouded scenarios, so my own maps usually don’t use it.
20140328 01:37:32< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm ok.
20140328 01:37:42< gfgtdf> ty for above.
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20140328 02:06:24< gfgtdf> is there a place where i can download special older versions like 1.11.5 for example ?
20140328 02:07:24< mattsc> http://sourceforge.net/projects/wesnoth/files/wesnoth/
20140328 02:07:33< vultraz> beat me to it
20140328 02:07:41< mattsc> vultraz: hehe.
20140328 02:08:03< mattsc> vultraz: was it you who asked about having the Messenger MAI control several messengers?
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20140328 02:08:16< gfgtdf> mattsc: ty again
20140328 02:08:24< vultraz> I can't remember
20140328 02:08:27< vultraz> Might've been
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20140328 02:08:42< mattsc> Well, I know who asked me recently, but I think sombody asked quite some time ago too.  Maybe it was bumba.
20140328 02:08:57< mattsc> Anyways, it’s possible now in 1.13.0-dev
20140328 02:09:30< mattsc> gfgtdf: o bitte sehr.  I’m always happy when I actually know the answer to something.
20140328 02:10:02< gfgtdf> :)
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20140328 03:26:23< shadowm> mattsc: No, I haven't read it yet I think.
20140328 03:26:53< shadowm> mattsc: I believe I said "should have been" -- I wasn't proposing to rename it now that it's been around for several releases.
20140328 03:29:54< mattsc> shadowm: okay - anything you want me to do on either issue?
20140328 03:30:17< shadowm> I am aware of mode=replace for [set_variables] and [store_unit] -- that would have ben the motivation, along with clearer semantics, considering that there are a lot of places in WML where changing things doesn't necessarily starting from scratch (as in replacing).
20140328 03:30:24< shadowm> *mean starting
20140328 03:30:45< shadowm> *been
20140328 03:31:21< mattsc> shadowm: ah, I see.  Right - I guess ‘change’ could be interpreted as only changing that parameter, but leaving the other ones unchanged.
20140328 03:31:22< shadowm> mattsc: Hm, no. I hate dealing with renamed stuff myself.
20140328 03:32:49< shadowm> iceiceice: I think systematically going back and writing unit tests for everything would be great and not just for mainline.
20140328 03:32:59< mattsc> I _could_ add ‘replace’ as a second option to do the same thing, but I’m not sure if that would be useful.
20140328 03:33:23< shadowm> Mainline tends to be very conservative (read: boring) in terms of the WML/Lua techniques it uses. UMC is where the fun's at.
20140328 03:34:07< iceiceice> sure but writing tests is a ton of work... i mean frankly we could use more C++ unit tests too but they dont write themselves
20140328 03:34:27< iceiceice> i think if we take a more easy does it approach we'll have better success
20140328 03:34:35< shadowm> We could use C++ unit tests that work. ;)
20140328 03:35:05< shadowm> And that don't pollute the log with messages about expected failures.
20140328 03:36:08< iceiceice> i guess that there are 3 kinds of C++ tests that are failing, and fabi reported each to their authors as bugs
20140328 03:36:21< iceiceice> so hopefully that will get fixed
20140328 03:36:39< iceiceice> i guess we lost the SDL ones forever
20140328 03:36:49< iceiceice> but hopefully that will also be irrelevant soon
20140328 03:37:14< iceiceice> it seems like the WML ones might have a good chance at being maintained though if there are users that will complain if they go away
20140328 03:37:21< shadowm> mattsc: I doubt there's much of a point doing that given that the tag in question is fully documented and there's no reason for anyone to go around making up syntax for it.
20140328 03:38:05< shadowm> It's better to have a single syntax choice to keep documentation simple and consistent.
20140328 03:38:40< shadowm> Add enough choices and you wind up with the next Perl clone.
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20140328 03:44:52< mattsc> shadowm: okay - sounds like we agree on this too
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20140328 05:35:40< Zerophase> Does anyone know when Mordante might be on again?  I seem to keep missing him to chat about my proposal.
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20140328 06:13:42< Aishiko_laptop> Zerophase, you could leave the question here, like most of the devs he greps the log and will answer any questions in the channel when he can you'll just have to grep the logs looking for his reply.
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20140328 06:54:10< Zerophase> Thanks Aishiko
20140328 06:55:08< Aishiko_laptop> Zerophase, your welcome
20140328 06:56:55< Kevin_Xi> wesbot: see Mordante
20140328 06:57:15< Aishiko_laptop> wesbot seen mordante
20140328 06:57:15< wesbot> Aishiko_laptop: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 3d 11h ago.  3d 11h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20140328 06:57:26< Aishiko_laptop> Kevin_Xi, ^^
20140328 06:58:09< Kevin_Xi> Aishiko_laptop: Oh, use like that. Thanks
20140328 06:59:53< Aishiko_laptop> Kevin_Xi, your welcome
20140328 07:00:52< Kevin_Xi> Aishiko_laptop: I just wonder why the bot only ignore me...
20140328 07:03:12< Zerophase> Mordonte: I'm looking for improvements you would like to see in my proposal to convert SDL 1.2 to SDL 2.0, for Google Summer of Code.  My experience with converting the Game Engine Design and Implementation code from 1.2 to 2.0 has largely involved replacing many class owned surfaces with textures, and only using surfaces at a local level for setting color values on textures.  How would 
20140328 07:03:12< Zerophase> you suggest adapting instances of surfaces for 2.0's more robust texture class?  Which other drawing issues need to be addressed in the move from 1.2 to 2.0?
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20140328 07:49:40< Soliton> "Which other drawing issues need to be addressed in the move from 1.2 to 2.0?" is awfully general. i doubt anyone would know until they try... of course the answer is simple: any issue that crops up needs to be addressed...
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20140328 08:40:48< Zerophase> I just meant in general from Mordonte's experience with working with SDL, which parts of the code base he believes will have to be adapted. The difference between 1.2 to 2.0, in usability from my experience, has largely been making the framework take less method calls to get many of the drawing done and in general making it much nicer to work with. So, what else needs to be addressed with 
20140328 08:40:48< Zerophase> my proposal besides the changes in textures and surfaces?  I understand that SDL_Window (I don't believe this existed in 1.2) and SDL_Renderer need to be addressed as well.
20140328 08:43:01< Soliton> it's mordante, btw. ;-)
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20140328 08:55:22< Zerophase> Ok, so how do you think I could improve my proposal?
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20140328 10:33:25< Soliton> i haven't read it. i'd assume through investigating wesnoth's SDL usage so you can find out what needs to be done for the conversion.
20140328 10:34:49< Soliton> it should be fairly easy to grep for the locations in the source where we work with SDL directly.
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20140328 13:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 233 bugs, 352 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140328 14:49:32< irker136> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 244ad22ce290 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (6 files): MAIs: minor code simplification in AIs that take both [filter] and id= http://git.io/ABKR2A
20140328 14:49:32< irker136> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 187f1c489bc8 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_patrol.lua: Patrol MAI: fix bug with save/load persistent data storage http://git.io/rzg5uw
20140328 14:51:48< irker136> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 293295392490 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (6 files): MAIs: minor code simplification in AIs that take both [filter] and id= http://git.io/OFhKHg
20140328 14:51:50< irker136> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 5c5a2bcf51e1 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_patrol.lua: Patrol MAI: fix bug with save/load persistent data storage http://git.io/VVwuGg
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20140328 15:39:05< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2139 (1.12 - 5c5a2bc : mattsc): The build passed.
20140328 15:39:05< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/21764696
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20140328 19:51:26< irker847> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 254eade25f4f / src/playturn.cpp: fixup b854aab437f157eea642131b882a4987a95c5b6b (ai side drops) http://git.io/ItXU4g
20140328 19:52:00< irker847> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 d3657133b465 / src/playturn.cpp: fixup b854aab437f157eea642131b882a4987a95c5b6b (ai side drops) http://git.io/c5oRRQ
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20140328 22:17:15< iceiceice> Soliton: I think the server controller tweaks may be ready to pull, it is passing my tests now
20140328 22:17:16< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/123
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 29 00:00:51 2014