--- Log opened Sun Mar 30 00:00:18 2014
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20140330 00:20:09< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master a017e584f23d / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_coward.lua: Coward MAI: remove unnecessary condition http://git.io/WEPjpA
20140330 00:20:09< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master f03c6052d036 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_return_guardian.lua: Return guardian MAI: remove unnecessary condition http://git.io/FP-_-A
20140330 00:20:09< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 0fd45763a95b / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (ca_goto.lua ca_healer_move.lua): MAIs: test for unit equality directly, not via coordinates http://git.io/HcptJA
20140330 00:22:25< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 bf85bd5667c3 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_coward.lua: Coward MAI: remove unnecessary condition http://git.io/Tj1yUg
20140330 00:22:27< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 4b033e68f95b / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_return_guardian.lua: Return guardian MAI: remove unnecessary condition http://git.io/_n-9Iw
20140330 00:22:29< irker027> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 1b02de8bb7ee / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (ca_goto.lua ca_healer_move.lua): MAIs: test for unit equality directly, not via coordinates http://git.io/RSrLZw
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20140330 00:25:29< mattsc> hi bumbadadabum 
20140330 00:25:36< bumbadadabum> hey
20140330 00:25:48< mattsc> Did you at some point ask about having the messenger MAI control more than one messenger?
20140330 00:26:42< bumbadadabum> uhh
20140330 00:26:47< bumbadadabum> I don't remember to be honest
20140330 00:26:59< bumbadadabum> have been pretty much detached from everything wesnoth lately
20140330 00:27:14< mattsc> okay, no worries - but if you ever need it in the future, it’s possible now.  :)
20140330 00:30:29< mattsc> This wasn’t just a question of adding a [filter] tag, that’s trivial.  The main issue was making the escort units behave at least semi reasonably in this case.  That’s why I’m pointing it out.  I know I’ve been asked about it by somebody and it would be good to have somebody test it.
20140330 00:43:27< Aishiko> mattsc, I recall seeing that topic come up recently but, I too can't recall whom was part of the conversation.
20140330 00:59:12< iceiceice> i was just looking in the commandline options file... i never knew about this --debug-lua option
20140330 00:59:22< iceiceice> is it useful? does anyone use it?
20140330 01:04:56< iceiceice> i think i might fixup this commit to take the OR of --debug, --debug-lua flags perhaps
20140330 01:04:58< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1e3aec74db68cfccdfc639dcd9a574cd59b92f1f
20140330 01:15:53< mattsc> Aishiko: thanks - I do recall who brought it up recently, but somebody else also did maybe 6-8 months ago.
20140330 01:18:17< mattsc> iceiceice: hmm, no, never used it
20140330 01:19:17< mattsc> iceiceice: oh, wait, I think that’s something that nephro introduced and it is specifically to add some Lua AI debug functions.  So I need to take back my previous statement.
20140330 01:20:24< iceiceice> it looks like its only used in about one place in the source code:
20140330 01:21:15< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/scripting/lua.cpp#L1061
20140330 01:21:31< iceiceice> there's seperately some DEBUG_LUA compile time flag,
20140330 01:21:41< iceiceice> but the run time flag may do ... nothing?
20140330 01:22:01< iceiceice> it appears to change the beahvior of the lua "require" function in ways I don't immediately understand
20140330 01:23:05< iceiceice> anyways i guess i will leave it be...
20140330 01:23:39< mattsc> iceiceice: yeah, I think I was wrong.  I think Lua AI debug functions (in ai/lua/debug.lua) are enabled with the normal —debug flag.
20140330 01:23:51< mattsc> So I guess I am back to not knowing what this is about.
20140330 01:24:06< iceiceice> well that makes two of us XD
20140330 01:26:16< mattsc> iceiceice: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/57aa197583c05f4a91d04a50c115bfd414d5e5b4
20140330 01:27:02< mattsc> So I did remember right (that is nephro), but the commit message also says that it is unused and it looks like it never went anywhere from there.
20140330 01:27:31< iceiceice> well maybe someone will be inspired to make more lua debugging stuff in the future i guess
20140330 01:28:35< mattsc> iceiceice: well, wrong again:  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Luaai_new_syntax#On-the-fly_reloading
20140330 01:29:10< mattsc> but he renamed it from debug_lua to debug-lua, that’s why that slipped by me  :P
20140330 01:29:24< iceiceice> tricky 
20140330 01:29:39< mattsc> So anyway, it really was meant as a Lua AI thing when introduced.
20140330 01:29:57< iceiceice> i think i did the right thing then 
20140330 01:31:06< mattsc> And probably what it does then (based on your comment a few minutes ago and the description from the wiki) is that it makes wesnoth.require work like wesnoth.dofile.
20140330 01:32:34< mattsc> iceiceice: it could probably be removed.  My guess is that the total count of people who have used external CAs at this time is … one.
20140330 01:33:15< mattsc> On the other hand, it probably doesn’t do any harm to leave it as it is.
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20140330 02:38:26< mattsc> _8680_, EliDupree or whoever: uh, just that if I do this: wesnoth.put_unit(unit.__cfg), then all the animation information is gone from the unit config.  Anybody know what that is about?
20140330 02:39:12< EliDupree> mattsc: Like, anim info in C++?
20140330 02:39:42< EliDupree> wesnoth.put_unit with a WML table overwrites the unit that was there before
20140330 02:39:47< mattsc> No, if you then look at the unit table (either the proxy table in Lua or with :inspect), the animations are gone
20140330 02:39:58< EliDupree> What animations?
20140330 02:40:07< EliDupree> A unit table normally has animations in it?
20140330 02:40:10< mattsc> EliDupree: yes, but this code overwrites the unit with itself
20140330 02:40:24< EliDupree> How was the unit created originally?
20140330 02:40:46< EliDupree> I'm pretty sure a unit table doesn't normally have animations in it...
20140330 02:41:03< mattsc> local unit = wesnoth.get_unit( whatever_filter )
20140330 02:41:09< EliDupree> No, created
20140330 02:41:23< mattsc> EliDupree: putting it on the map with shift-c
20140330 02:41:23< EliDupree> Was it recruited? Was it a leader? Was it created by scripts?
20140330 02:42:28< EliDupree> Well... I believe wesnoth ignores any animations directly in the unit table
20140330 02:42:33< mattsc> … and I just tried by recruiting a unit.  There are definitely [attack_anim] etc. tags in it.
20140330 02:42:45< EliDupree> only way to add animations is with an [effect] apply_to=new_animation
20140330 02:43:18< EliDupree> I don't know if that's the intended behavior, but that's what I've had to work with in EoHS
20140330 02:43:18< mattsc> EliDupree: would you mind doing a really quick test?  Start any scenario, recruit a unit, then look at it with :inspect?
20140330 02:43:23< EliDupree> ok
20140330 02:44:08< vultraz> I think what mattsc is trying to say is that the default unit animations have vanished from the unit table
20140330 02:44:39< mattsc> vultraz: yes
20140330 02:44:50< EliDupree> 1,10 - recruits have them, leaders don't
20140330 02:44:59< mattsc> vultraz: but they are still being played.
20140330 02:45:38< mattsc> EliDupree: same in 1.13.0-dev  (hadn’t looked at leaders before)
20140330 02:46:20< mattsc> EliDupree: so do I understand that right that I don’t need to worry about them disappearing then when I created a unit back from the unit dump?
20140330 02:46:29< EliDupree> Uh.... yeah
20140330 02:46:47< EliDupree> What surprised me is that they're sometimes present in the dump at all
20140330 02:46:53< mattsc> The unit dump does include them, by the way, just when you create a unit from it they aren’t there any more.
20140330 02:47:18< EliDupree> But since they've never been reliably there, I see no reason to be bothered that they disappear
20140330 02:47:58< mattsc> Okay.  Cool.  I’ve always seen them and assumed that they are needed - shows you how much I know about animations …
20140330 02:49:03< mattsc> So then my method of adding tags with MAI info in unit variables should work after all  :)
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20140330 03:10:08< iceiceice> mattsc: do you know what i have to do to make a scenario available to be called using "wesnoth --test" ?
20140330 03:10:42< mattsc> iceiceice: yes, you use [test] instead of [scenario]
20140330 03:10:54< iceiceice> hmm...
20140330 03:11:07< iceiceice> i tried putting stuff in /data/test/scenarios and it doesn't seem to find it
20140330 03:11:17< iceiceice> i wonder if that directory is not being scanned or something
20140330 03:11:30< mattsc> Also, you want an ‘#ifdef TEST’ in the _main.cfg
20140330 03:13:33< mattsc> iceiceice: it isn’t:  https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/_main.cfg#L42
20140330 03:16:21< mattsc> Actually, it is included in data/test/_main.cfg, but I don’t know how/when/from where that _main.cfg file is included.
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20140330 03:24:56< iceiceice> thanks alot that fixed it
20140330 03:26:33< iceiceice> at least its finding my scenario...
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20140330 03:28:47< iceiceice> care to take a look? i'm getting "Creating unit with empty type field" 
20140330 03:28:48< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/nugX1Yy9
20140330 03:30:51< iceiceice> hmm it loads just fine as a multiplayer scenario :/
20140330 03:33:01< vultraz> what is this [leader] stuff?
20140330 03:33:52< iceiceice> i was copying some other test scenario i saw
20140330 03:33:58< iceiceice> it workd when i removed it lol
20140330 03:34:18< iceiceice> thanks
20140330 03:35:15< vultraz> there is no [leader] tag
20140330 03:36:35< mattsc> vultraz: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1be29d466369688f8a2f61baca29a51c16443ce6
20140330 03:37:44< vultraz> oh. huh
20140330 03:37:46< mattsc> … but I didn’t know about it either, so better ask AI0867 about it
20140330 03:37:51< vultraz> well I never even saw that documented 
20140330 03:42:34< iceiceice> i dont know i just started copying from this file: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/scenario-test.cfg
20140330 03:42:40< iceiceice> its probably hideously out of date or something
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20140330 11:52:40< mordante> servus
20140330 11:53:19< mordante> iceiceice, Aishiko, you were looking for me?
20140330 11:54:35< AI0867> I also asked you something
20140330 11:54:57< AI0867> I'd have to check the logs to see what it was though
20140330 11:54:59< mordante> AI0867, I just saw the wesbot notices, reading the logs
20140330 11:56:49< mordante> AI0867, regarding the lexical_cast issue?
20140330 11:59:13< AI0867> ah, yes
20140330 11:59:19< AI0867> well, not lexical_cast issues
20140330 12:00:14< AI0867> but I've been trying to create a cast with the same syntax, and I can't figure out how to make the compiler actually use it
20140330 12:00:54< AI0867> that is, I can get it to compile, but actually calling it causes the compiler to complain that it can't resolve it
20140330 12:01:09< mordante> can you post your patch?
20140330 12:01:33< AI0867> I had a simple one, then I saw that lexical_cast is has a struct to implement it and tried to copy that
20140330 12:01:37< AI0867> which didn't help
20140330 12:01:41< AI0867> will do
20140330 12:04:00< AI0867> mordante: http://ai.ai0867.net/tmp/uni.diff
20140330 12:04:09< AI0867> that's the current version
20140330 12:05:00< AI0867> I don't know why lexical_cast uses this struct for indirection, but I suppose it's to work around some issues in compilers or the standard
20140330 12:05:09< mordante> oke will look later this afternoon
20140330 12:05:30< mordante> structs are required for partial specialisation, functions can only be fully specialised
20140330 12:06:22< AI0867> so it's probably not necessary in this case?
20140330 12:06:37< mordante> no idea haven't looked at the patch yet ;-)
20140330 12:06:45< AI0867> I have a To and a From, but only if both are specified does a valid cast exist
20140330 12:07:27< mordante> specified or specialised?
20140330 12:09:39< AI0867> there are only 4 valid casts
20140330 12:09:50< AI0867> from ucs4::string to utf8::string and the reverse
20140330 12:09:58< AI0867> and from either of those to utf16::string
20140330 12:10:12< AI0867> everything else should cause the static assert to fail
20140330 12:10:50< AI0867> it's possible that a few more might be added in the future, perhaps if the win32 API insists on returning UTF-16 strings
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20140330 12:16:03< mordante> wesbot seen lipkab
20140330 12:16:03< wesbot> mordante: Person, who 1d 1h ago used nick lipkab, last spoke 19h 59m ago.  19h 42m ago as lipkabb was here and on the channel #wesnoth with the message: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
20140330 12:47:21< Ivanovic> @all gsoc students: please make sure to leave a comment in the melange tracker if you updated your wiki page!
20140330 12:47:48< Ivanovic> we are not able to constantly monitor your wiki pages (there are just too many proposals for this), so please tell us when you reacted on the feedback provided!
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20140330 13:08:18< mordante> thunderstruck, around?
20140330 13:08:36< thunderstruck> mordante: yes
20140330 13:08:45< Ivanovic> thunderstruck: you might want to join #wesnoth-mentor
20140330 13:08:47< Ivanovic> ;)
20140330 13:09:00< mordante> thunderstruck, what Ivanovic said
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20140330 13:36:57< lipkab> mordante: Hi.
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20140330 13:42:25< mordante> hi lipkab 
20140330 13:42:43< mordante> lipkab, do you have time to discuss your application?
20140330 13:42:54< lipkab> mordante: Yes.
20140330 13:44:05< mordante> have you seen my latest SDL2 related commits?
20140330 13:44:34< lipkab> No.
20140330 13:45:30< mordante> they were committed last weekend, best have a look at the sdl directory for the current state of the code
20140330 13:46:01< lipkab> Oh, I missed that somehow. Will take a look.
20140330 13:49:09< lipkab> mordante: e2ce7ec2 has the shortest commit message I've ever seen :P
20140330 13:50:09< mordante> lipkab, ?
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20140330 13:53:27< lipkab> mordante: http://imagebin.org/302695 <- It's literally empty.
20140330 13:53:54< lipkab> mordante: Is there anything else I should see besides the texture wrapper class?
20140330 14:01:23< mordante> lipkab, odd, I'm quite sure git doesn't allow empty commits… also » git log -1  e2ce7ec2« gives »Add the initial SDL_Texture wrapper code.« for me
20140330 14:01:58< mordante> lipkab, not really, it wasn't much that was committed
20140330 14:06:24< lipkab> mordante: Okay. So what needs to be adjusted in my proposal? The texture class overlaps a tiny bit with task 1, but that's all (I can see).
20140330 14:08:01< mordante> lipkab, at the moment I'm working on a small tool to test some things with SDL2, at the moment mainly input handling so I will make some changes to the window class, but probably not to the texture class
20140330 14:08:20< mordante> will have a look at your proposal now
20140330 14:12:09< mordante> for now you can assume I will do some minimal work to make a window blit a texture and nothing more
20140330 14:12:56< mordante> so there will be a »void draw(ttexture& texture, const int x, const int y);« function for the most basic blitting, without scaling and fiddling with clip rects
20140330 14:13:35< mordante> I also have a wrapper for SDL_RenderClear in the Window class
20140330 14:14:41< mordante> once that's committed I probably will start to look at more mundane tasks like event handling and window resizing and looking at what needs to be done for GUI@
20140330 14:14:44< mordante> GUI2*
20140330 14:15:17< mordante> does this information help you to focus further on your proposal?
20140330 14:18:16< lipkab> mordante: Yes. I think your plans don't interfere too much with my roadmap, so I can just elaborate on what I have already.
20140330 14:20:25< mordante> lipkab, good, because I'd like to see more details regarding your project
20140330 14:20:43< mordante> especially the time-line when to achieve which part
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20140330 14:21:21< mordante> I also like to see a patch specific to this task
20140330 14:21:53< lipkab> mordante: The mouse wheel fix doesn't count?
20140330 14:22:11< mordante> adding a function to load a file into a texture
20140330 14:22:31< lipkab> Alright.
20140330 14:23:44< mordante> they also count
20140330 14:24:15< mordante> I've seen them before, but I also like to see something more specific to your task
20140330 14:24:34< lipkab> Okay.
20140330 14:25:54< mordante> I think it would be nice to let the user select whether the image needs to be modified later or not and thus whether we need to keep the original surface
20140330 14:26:06< mordante> (something you also wrote in your own proposal)
20140330 14:31:12< lipkab> mordante: Good idea. As for the loading function, should I write an alternative ctor for ttexture, or just a simple non-member returning an SDL_Texture*?
20140330 14:31:19< mordante> AI0867, I agree with the compiler to reject your code :-P, testing my patch now
20140330 14:32:50< mordante> lipkab, I think a ctor is the best, a ttexture shouldn't be reseated afterwards
20140330 14:33:23< mordante> lipkab, I'd say something like »ttexture(SDL_Renderer& renderer, const int access, const std::string& filename);«
20140330 14:33:49< lipkab> Ok.
20140330 14:34:01< mordante> this in turn can be called from the twindow using a load_image function which sends the proper renderer value
20140330 14:34:51< mordante> I think most (all) ttexture ctors should be called via the twindow, since that class knows the renderer to use
20140330 14:36:02< lipkab> ...or anybody else it's willing to tell to :)
20140330 14:37:07< mordante> I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to let that information leak out of the window (puns are all unintended)
20140330 14:37:48< mordante> of course it's quite easy to retrieve from the twindow, but well all abstractions in C++ can be circumvented
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20140330 14:42:55< lipkab> The renderer is a constant by nature, so I can't see any real dangers with it... It's certainly better to have the texture ids generated by the same entity, though.
20140330 14:44:40< mordante> I also don't see dangers, except that it's breaking the encapsulation, which I consider ugly and error prone
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20140330 15:01:03< mordante> lipkab, make sure you ping me after updating your proposal
20140330 15:01:13< lipkab> mordante: Okay.
20140330 15:01:58< demiurgos> mordante: i have been looking some of the map generator code
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20140330 15:02:34< mordante> demiurgos, ok good, figured out how to use it?
20140330 15:02:51< demiurgos> mordante:  and i got a simple idea that could be better for the interface with the user to make it better
20140330 15:03:30< demiurgos> mordante: buf.. not really, i made some changes to try, but there are a lot of things that i understand but im not sure how to modify them yet
20140330 15:04:04< demiurgos> mordante: well, the thing is not really about the generator, but when you are chosing the landscape (island, coastal etc..)
20140330 15:04:34< demiurgos> i have seen that in the interface there is a scroll that changes the landscape
20140330 15:04:52< demiurgos> im not sure how to explain, but the thing is that if you choose island
20140330 15:05:29< demiurgos> if you move the scroll it is still in island, but the landscape changes, changinf the size of the island
20140330 15:06:25< demiurgos> it is a bit confusing, maybe for the interface it would be better to selec one landscape (or random landscape) and then choosing the different options like radius instead of a scroll bar
20140330 15:06:55< mordante> demiurgos, which generator did you use for testing?
20140330 15:07:09< demiurgos> idk if i have explained myself...
20140330 15:07:54< demiurgos> well, im no sure but lets see, one generator is the one with desert for example?
20140330 15:08:13< demiurgos> and we have also that generator yamg i think its called
20140330 15:08:56< mordante> yes so which generator did you use?
20140330 15:09:06< demiurgos> i have tried all
20140330 15:09:13< demiurgos> but mostly the first one
20140330 15:09:30< demiurgos> and the yamg generates a beautiful map, but always generates the same...
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20140330 15:10:00< mordante> yes that 'feature' of yamg is a known issue
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20140330 15:10:51< demiurgos> yeah, you told me, i think that the results are great and it would be useful to fix that generator
20140330 15:10:59< demiurgos> and that it makes playable maps
20140330 15:11:48< demiurgos> but well, about the first thing, i have played a lot with battle for wesnoth, but i have never understand well that scroll option to change the landscape
20140330 15:12:22< demiurgos> i think one start to improve the random map generation would be to put it in an easier way to understand the options
20140330 15:12:39< mordante> aquileia was looking into that yamg issue
20140330 15:13:32< demiurgos> so i could talk with him to see if he can explain the generator and see if i can help him?
20140330 15:14:04< mordante> not sure whether he needs help, but you can talk to him
20140330 15:14:17< mordante> if you have specific questions best ask them here
20140330 15:14:22< mordante> I'm afk for dinner, will be back afterwards
20140330 15:14:29< demiurgos> ok
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20140330 15:28:59< irker392> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master c63c27ae5eb5 / src/sdl/ (texture.cpp texture.hpp): Add a ctor to ttexture which loads the texture from a file. http://git.io/zXpbzQ
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20140330 15:31:28< lipkab> Blargh, I'm an idiot.
20140330 15:32:38< irker392> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master e9d42a91ceaf / src/sdl/texture.cpp: Fix a memory leak in the previous commit. http://git.io/3a2tnw
20140330 15:33:29< AI0867> mordante: okay, so what is the issue you and the compiler have with it?
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20140330 15:55:55< mordante> demiurgos, I'm back
20140330 15:56:27< mordante> AI0867, I had three issues
20140330 15:56:57< mordante> 1 the in parameter was not commented out so my compiler complained about unused parameters
20140330 15:57:54< mordante> 2 the structs were not properly defined they need template<> struct foo<type1, type2> {…}
20140330 15:58:48< AI0867> in the previous version, I tried adding and removing the template parameters, neither of which worked
20140330 15:58:50< mordante> 3 the order of From and To was 'wrong' by using From, To and specifying one you specify From and To gets automatically deduced
20140330 15:59:23< mordante> In my patch I only fixed the order for the inline function to have the proper order
20140330 16:00:21< mordante> here it is http://paste.debian.net/90595/
20140330 16:00:52< mordante> this code compiles for me, no run-time test were done
20140330 16:01:19< AI0867> I figured out 3 myself after I started editing for 2
20140330 16:01:32 * AI0867 is now compiling
20140330 16:02:22< mordante> lipkab looking at your patches now
20140330 16:03:16< AI0867> lipkab: You could turn those two SDL_FreeSurface calls back into one by moving them in front of the if
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20140330 16:05:34< mordante> lipkab, two remarks
20140330 16:06:16< mordante> 1 It does not retains the surface and doesn't work for streaming textures
20140330 16:06:30< mordante> 2 Using IMG_LoadTexture would have been easier for this case
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20140330 16:16:24< AI0867> mordante: same URL, different question
20140330 16:16:46< AI0867> it worked with the structs, now I've removed the structs and I'm getting issues at link-time about multiple definitions
20140330 16:17:12 * AI0867 notices he forgot the inline
20140330 16:17:14< AI0867> that might be it
20140330 16:18:12< mordante> that's at least a cause
20140330 16:22:54< AI0867> yeah, that fixed it
20140330 16:23:06< mordante> ok good to know
20140330 16:26:27< AI0867> are there any issues with doing it this way? Without the structs?
20140330 16:27:52< mordante> no since use fully specialised functions, using structs makes it easier to partly specialise the function
20140330 16:28:11< mordante> I'm not aware of other differences
20140330 16:28:31< mordante> demiurgos, do you have any questions?
20140330 16:33:26< AI0867> okay
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20140330 17:14:36< mordante> I'm off bye
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20140330 17:17:42< irker392> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master f330080e37a7 / src/serialization/unicode.hpp: Add unicode_cast to wrap utils::X_to_Y() functions http://git.io/MFPVsw
20140330 17:17:44< irker392> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master cad98a327875 / src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): Use unicode_cast http://git.io/fAvpVA
20140330 17:17:46< irker392> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 0170b539ac35 / / (36 files in 14 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/gW_QjA
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20140330 17:35:02< irker392> wesnoth: Duthlet wesnoth:1.12 3496ac8f6e99 / changelog data/core/about.cfg src/playmp_controller.cpp: Fix bug #21759 http://git.io/gQwZUQ
20140330 17:35:04< irker392> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 abd718f31e23 / changelog data/core/about.cfg src/playmp_controller.cpp: Merge branch 'fixbug21759the2nd' of https://github.com/Duthlet/wesnoth into 1.12 http://git.io/pBCliw
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20140330 17:49:25< irker392> wesnoth: Duthlet wesnoth:master 5530cd0fc557 / changelog data/core/about.cfg src/playmp_controller.cpp: Fix bug #21759 http://git.io/ZgiU4Q
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20140330 18:02:04< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2166 (1.12 - abd718f : Chris Beck): The build has errored.
20140330 18:02:04< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/21884590
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20140330 18:05:40< iceiceice> ruh roh
20140330 18:07:12< vultraz> dun dun DUNNN
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20140330 18:41:09< lipkab> mordante: Oh, I didn't know you want the keep surface feature as well. I'll add it right away.
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20140330 18:44:28< zookeeper> huh. the command prompt for both "enter formula" (f key) and "enter user command" (: key) are prefixed with the same "Command:" string, making them indistinguishable.
20140330 18:46:44< iceiceice> anyone: would appreciate thoughts and feedback on this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/135
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20140330 18:51:17< lipkab> mordante: I can't see much point in supporting streaming textures in this context - we don't use sprites as drawing boards, do we? I can add it if you want, but I really doubt it'd be used anywhere.
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20140330 18:52:08< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#1853 (blindfold_turn_dialog - bab03d5 : Chris Beck): The build has errored.
20140330 18:52:08< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/19537573
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20140330 18:56:54< Dugi> wesbot: seen mordante
20140330 18:56:54< wesbot> Dugi: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1h 42m ago.  1h 42m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20140330 18:57:10< iceiceice> Way to go travis... thanks for trying to build a build you just forgot about a month ago, then telling me it's errored because the branch has been deleted...
20140330 19:02:01< AI0867> oh, that's the reason =P
20140330 19:05:01< AI0867> I just saw that a build errored and hit restart on every errored one that I could see
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20140330 19:12:09< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#1853 (blindfold_turn_dialog - bab03d5 : Chris Beck): The build has errored.
20140330 19:12:09< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/19537573
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20140330 19:14:28< iceiceice> yeah i really have no idea what to do about that
20140330 19:14:42< iceiceice> i guess ideally i could have restarted the travis job before deleting the branch?
20140330 19:14:49< iceiceice> oh well...
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20140330 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 231 bugs, 352 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140330 19:49:57< Dugi> shadowm: You there?
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20140330 20:03:04< Dugi> wesbot: seen shadowm
20140330 20:03:04< wesbot> Dugi: Queried user last spoke 22h 7m ago.  shadowm is currently here and on the channels #wesnoth and #wesnoth-umc-dev.
20140330 20:09:00< iceiceice> Soliton: If you don't see any problems, I'd like to merge this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/123
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20140330 20:37:15< shadowm> Dugi: Barely.
20140330 20:38:54< Dugi> shadowm: I wanted to ask how should I remove the old commits, but if you are 'barely here', I think that I will have to ask you about it later.
20140330 20:39:29< shadowm> I'm sure there are plenty of people here able to help.
20140330 20:40:20< shadowm> I vaguely remember providing a sequence of commands in my PM as a starting point for your research, though.
20140330 20:41:20< Ivanovic> @all gsoc students: i just left a generic message on each of your proposal pages in the gsoc tracker asking you to make sure to update your proposals after discussions and to post a comment after you updated things
20140330 20:41:37< Ivanovic> if you are already following this: don't worry, this is a generic message which I left for every student
20140330 20:42:06< Ivanovic> if you are not following it: head the hint! if we don't realize you updated things, how should we include the updates in the ranking we do?
20140330 20:44:24< AI0867> s/head/heed/
20140330 20:44:30< Ivanovic> ehm, right
20140330 20:45:18< Dugi> shadowm: The sequence of commands you left me were just for backup, I had no idea how to do the rest of the things you mentioned. Anyway, I thought you were away, so I left Linux and switched to Windows to play some video games. Can I do it without having a local copy of the repository?
20140330 20:45:53< shadowm> Dugi: No.
20140330 20:46:10< shadowm> Also, no, only the first part of the sequence was for backing up the branch.
20140330 20:47:28< Dugi> shadowm: Will you be here for the next about 2 hours?
20140330 20:48:05< shadowm> The only thing I know for sure is that I don't want to look at code in general (not just Wesnoth) for a few days.
20140330 20:50:13< Dugi> shadowm: Is it you who has to agree with the pull request?
20140330 20:50:29< Ivanovic> Dugi: anyone can merge the pull request
20140330 20:50:36< shadowm> That's a tough question.
20140330 20:50:48< Ivanovic> it just depends on what the change is for
20140330 20:51:00< Ivanovic> e.g. AI0867 handles many of the pull requests, but of course not all
20140330 20:51:18< Dugi> Haven't seen AI here lately in the evening hours.
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20140330 20:51:39< shadowm> Since I've worked with the add-ons server and client a lot since 1.5.x onwards I tend to believe I should make sure the final result satisfies current and future design requirements.
20140330 20:52:16< shadowm> Of course, we aren't talking of _any_ pull request here. We're talking of a highly-controversial feature.
20140330 20:52:39< Dugi> Well, so it's you who has to agree, right?
20140330 20:53:21< Dugi> My idea was only about the reviews, the numerical rating wasn't my suggestion.
20140330 20:53:36< shadowm> Well, I can disagree with some aspect(s) of the implementation, which is why I specifically suggested breaking it down into steps.
20140330 20:53:38< Aishiko_laptop> Ivanovic, thank you for the heads up I've been letting mordante know in here though I guess I should have been using the gsoc website
20140330 20:53:59< Ivanovic> Aishiko_laptop: mordante is very good at following the logs
20140330 20:54:11< Ivanovic> but other mentors might also look at the proposals and the comments
20140330 20:54:26< shadowm> Dugi: Note that I'm making use of grammatical potentiality. I haven't actually seen it in action or understood exactly how it's supposed to work (which is one of the complaints I voiced regarding your commit messages).
20140330 20:54:53< Aishiko_laptop> I need to ask mordante if my updated proposal meets with his vision or if its still too complicated
20140330 20:55:07< Ivanovic> Aishiko_laptop: just some short two sentence comment after a discussion and changes are enough, e.g. "updated timeline after IRC discussion" works nicely
20140330 20:55:12< shadowm> I personally don't feel too strongly about the existence or non-existence of add-on reviews, but I know some members of this team do.
20140330 20:55:35< Dugi> shadowm: You can't just see how it works for yourself by compiling it and looking at its execution?
20140330 20:56:04< shadowm> Of course I can, but then I'll inevitably look at the code.
20140330 20:56:42< shadowm> That kind of negates the intended purpose of my partial Wesbreak.
20140330 20:58:34< AI0867> Dugi: well, I'm here right now. I'm not sure what you're missing
20140330 20:58:35< Aishiko_laptop> Ivanovic, mordante, I've got 2 ideas on how to make mine work, and they sort of clash, I'm considering putting both up calling 1 Plan A and the other Plan B under the same proposal, for figuring out the best way to go, would that be OK to do?
20140330 20:58:52< Ivanovic> Aishiko_laptop: sure
20140330 20:58:55< AI0867> though that depends on what "evening hours" are for you
20140330 20:59:11< Ivanovic> Aishiko_laptop: a problem i had with your proposal is reading the timeline in this textual form
20140330 20:59:24< Ivanovic> Aishiko: it would be really cool if you made it a normal table
20140330 20:59:55< Ivanovic> for a sample for tables in a proposal look at what Crab did in his old days... http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SummerOfCodeProposal_AI_Improvement_Crab
20140330 21:00:04< Aishiko_laptop> Ivanovic, well its 3 but 2 are very similar.  Ohh OK do I use the normal html tags for that?  if not I'll look at the help section of the metawiki
20140330 21:00:21< Ivanovic> it is some mediawiki syntax
20140330 21:00:36< Ivanovic> just look at the timeline part of Crab_s proposal for a code sample
20140330 21:01:26< Dugi> AI0867: If you're from Germany, then there's no time zone change. I mean from 8:00 PM to midnight. But as Shadowm says, this pull will have to be kinda discussed a lot, it's not simply about asking a guy to pull it. I needed also help about purging some commits (that have no effect together anyway), but it can wait till shadowm's wesbreak ends.
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20140330 21:01:53< AI0867> I'm from the netherlands, but that's close enough
20140330 21:02:07< Aishiko_laptop> Ivanovic, actually it looks like the old html code to me, I'll get on that.  Any other areas that I should make into tables?
20140330 21:02:39< shadowm> Dugi: Anyone can help you get rid of the unwanted history bits, there's no need to wait for a single person for that...
20140330 21:02:41< Ivanovic> the main part which makes good use of this is the timeline hopefully with some deliverables
20140330 21:02:41< AI0867> I don't always keep sane hours though
20140330 21:03:08< Dugi> AI0867: Sorry, I thought you were from Germany. No idea where did I get to that information.
20140330 21:03:25< AI0867> maybe me being in #wesnoth-de ?
20140330 21:03:26< Ivanovic> Dugi: he is only honary german
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20140330 21:03:35< Ivanovic> allowed to stay in the "german room" at fosdem
20140330 21:03:37< shadowm> I generally avoid trying to help people with Git if I can't SSH into their system and see their repository layout etc.
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20140330 21:04:16< shadowm> I wouldn't want to cause somebody to lose data because they didn't give me the full context in spite of my insistence.
20140330 21:04:32< Dugi> shadowm: Allowing smebody to SSH my system is quite a trustful thing, no?
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20140330 21:05:08< happygrue> trusting shadowm to do it would be quite trusting indeed!  ;)
20140330 21:05:13< Ivanovic> Dugi: this just means: if things went bad you might lose (part) of your work
20140330 21:05:19< Ivanovic> just a happy warning from shadowm
20140330 21:05:49< Ivanovic> so e.g. working on a copy of the stuff might be the safer option than directly working in the checkout with the changes
20140330 21:05:51< Ivanovic> ;)
20140330 21:06:24< Dugi> Ivanovic: I understand what is the risk, I am just surprised. Not telling that I don't trust him.
20140330 21:06:42 * Ivanovic would not give shadowm ssh access to his personal account!
20140330 21:06:42< shadowm> When I was a git noob I had the habit of tar -cf'ing the .git directory before trying out something new just in case.
20140330 21:06:44< Ivanovic> ;)
20140330 21:07:19< shadowm> Then again, I didn't know or understand things like the reflog, detached heads, etc.
20140330 21:07:29< Dugi> I think I'll just wait till shadowm ends his wesbreak and do my own stuff till then.
20140330 21:07:55< Ivanovic> i am off to bed, n8
20140330 21:08:15< Dugi> shadowm: I don't understand these things neither. I am used to svn and all I know is committing anyway.
20140330 21:08:50< Aishiko_laptop> night Ivanovic 
20140330 21:09:20< shadowm> I also started with SVN. Although at the beginning I was reluctant to learn Git, at the time the benefits outweighed the disadvantages _greatly_.
20140330 21:10:14< shadowm> Working with Wesnoth often requires me to take a look at past commits to understand why xyz thing is currently (not) done in a specific way, and with SVN that requires constant network traffic that at the time I couldn't afford.
20140330 21:10:37< Dugi> shadowm: Is that the only advantage?
20140330 21:11:49< shadowm> Git is designed in such way you always hold all of the project's history up to your last fetch point without having to waste time and effort doing networky stuff, so I went and switched to git-svn (to work with a SVN repository with Git) before Git became cool enough to be Wesnoth's official versioning platform.
20140330 21:12:23< AI0867> Ivanovic: do you know how translations were previously copied from branch to branch on wescamp?
20140330 21:12:57< shadowm> Immediately I started taking advantage of the benefit of being able to queue multiple commits in a row (SVN didn't let you do that at the time, they later devised a workaroundish way to achieve an approximation of that workflow).
20140330 21:14:14< shadowm> It did take me a while to start using local branches, though, but that's mostly because I didn't work on anything complicated enough at the time to require that technique... or I didn't have a very good VCS discipline, probably both.
20140330 21:15:04< Dugi> shadowm: So it's like extra possibilities at the cost of extra difficulty.
20140330 21:16:28< shadowm> Yes.
20140330 21:16:56< shadowm> I guess it could be compared to people coming from Java or C# to C++.
20140330 21:17:13< Dugi> shadowm: I don't like this bureaucracy stuff. I'd love if Drobbox could be used for this :D
20140330 21:17:36< Dugi> shadowm: I know neither C# nor java, but I think I know what did you mean.
20140330 21:19:43< shadowm> I'll put it like this: Git is so great I use it for solo projects too.
20140330 21:20:12< iceiceice> yeah git is really awesome
20140330 21:20:26< iceiceice> it has definitely changed the way i think about programming
20140330 21:20:42< shadowm> I think that for anyone working with anything more complicated than a standalone shell script (and even that), learning Git has plenty of benefits down the road.
20140330 21:20:46< AI0867> Dugi: I've seen people use dropbox for code
20140330 21:20:51< AI0867> Dugi: it causes me to run around screaming
20140330 21:21:30< shadowm> If your code lives for long enough you find yourself in need of being able to do things with the code as it was at various points of its life.
20140330 21:21:58< AI0867> dropbox does have a history, but only awkwardly, and per file
20140330 21:22:06< AI0867> even CVS is an improvement over that
20140330 21:22:30< Dugi> Ubuntu One, that is similar to Drobox, lets you see the past versions of files. But certainly it isn't like svn.
20140330 21:22:34< shadowm> Finding out when a regression was introduced (git even has a dedicated command to assist with that), keeping track of your progress over time, being able to revert or re-apply past commits as the need arises, etc.
20140330 21:22:35< Dugi> or git
20140330 21:23:04< Dugi> I understand, but I don't like this non-programming bureaucracy. I know that it's necessary, but I don't like it.
20140330 21:25:55< shadowm> Okay -- as I expected, Git can't figure out what to do to resolve conflicts with that big monolithic "Updated the stuff." commit.
20140330 21:27:20< shadowm> Dugi: What does `git rev-parse fa9c92b^` (yes, include the caret) show?
20140330 21:28:18< Dugi> shadowm: I am still on Widnows, so I can't access the files right now. Are you gonna help me the problem now so that I switch back to Linux and finish it?
20140330 21:28:49< shadowm> Hm.
20140330 21:28:58< shadowm> Dugi: Sure...
20140330 21:29:19< Dugi> shadowm: Okay, then. I'll be back in a few minutes.
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20140330 21:37:22< Dugi> shadowm: I am here.
20140330 21:37:51< Dugi> shadowm: What was the command you were asking about again?
20140330 21:39:10< shadowm> 18:27:18 <shadowm> Dugi: What does `git rev-parse fa9c92b^` (yes, include the caret) show?
20140330 21:39:28< shadowm> (There's a link to the public logs of this channel in the topic, btw.)
20140330 21:39:42< Dugi> shadowm: ba8d643a3c02f1dbfdfd7fc1e16d8a0287989d33
20140330 21:40:42< shadowm> Okay, thanks, I needed to know that to find the correct base for your branch and the aforementioned commit.
20140330 21:41:12< shadowm> Um.
20140330 21:41:33< Dugi> shadowm: Am I here or I lagged out?
20140330 21:41:41< shadowm> > Author: Dugi <dugi@dugi.(none)>
20140330 21:41:47< shadowm> Dugi: Yes, you are here.
20140330 21:41:58< Dugi> shadowm: Okay, I just had connection issues.
20140330 21:41:59< shadowm> And you need to configure git to use your correct name and email address..
20140330 21:42:16< shadowm> Also this doesn't compile.
20140330 21:42:18< Dugi> shadowm: How do I do that?
20140330 21:43:16< Dugi> shadowm: Doesn't compile? Something must be messed up somewhere, what is the problem?
20140330 21:43:25< Dugi> shadowm: I just compiled it.
20140330 21:44:02< shadowm> Dugi: `git config --global user.name "Your name" && git config --global user.email youremailaddress@example.com` 
20140330 21:44:49< shadowm> And if the email address you choose is not the same address as the one you registered your github account with you also need to change your github profile configuration.
20140330 21:44:50< Dugi> shadowm: Thanks, done it.
20140330 21:45:12< Dugi> shadowm: I have picked the same e-mail address.
20140330 21:45:43< shadowm> This is how it doesn't compile: http://pastebin.com/XWATpPNb   I purged my ccache just in case, still broken.
20140330 21:47:47< shadowm> Commit messages should start with one summary/subject line under 80 chars, like in an email message, by the way. If you need to describe the commit in greater detail (i.e. pretty much all of the time), you leave a second empty line and write the description starting from the third line.
20140330 21:48:01< shadowm> Otherwise I get stuff like this when trying to get my bearings: http://pastebin.com/EUuDLbCh
20140330 21:48:42< Dugi> shadowm: Darn, that problem is related to scons. I am used to cmake. I must have wrongly added the three new files in the gui/dialogs/addon/ folder.
20140330 21:49:15< shadowm> I don't see how https://github.com/Dugy/wesnoth/commit/b8197d99f88d58bf2dffdc7e23d6bbe4059fedb6 would cause what I'm experiencing.
20140330 21:49:46< shadowm> clang is being very specific as to the cause of the error, I just want to know where it comes from. ;)
20140330 21:50:03< shadowm> Forom "updated the stuff", yep.
20140330 21:50:33< shadowm> It occurs to me you didn't test-compile the commits following that.
20140330 21:50:43< Dugi> shadowm: I always compiled it with cmake. I thought that adding the three files will be completely analogous in scons. Try to compile it with cmake, it definitely should work.
20140330 21:51:02< shadowm> This also shows why people shouldn't attempt to hand-merge changes without git's assistance...
20140330 21:51:52< Dugi> How do I fix that problem?
20140330 21:52:03< shadowm> The problem is that in "Updated the stuff." you updated the contents of existing files of the source tree that changed since the branching point, but didn't make sure to include files that were deleted or newly added in the meantime.
20140330 21:52:34< shadowm> Dugi: Are you in your topic branch there? Did you back it up as I suggested?
20140330 21:52:40< Dugi> shadowm: Ah, that is very likely to be the cause. I didn't expect that such large things happened.
20140330 21:53:04< Dugi> I didn't make a backup yet, I have just a backup of the files somewhere on the disk. I'll do it immediately.
20140330 21:53:19< shadowm> No, first do the following:
20140330 21:54:01< shadowm> 1. Make sure you don't have any local changes pending commit (check in `git status`). If you do, save them with `git stash` so you can recover them at a later point.
20140330 21:54:14< shadowm> 2. Switch back to master: `git checkout master`
20140330 21:54:49< shadowm> 3. Pull from upstream: `git pull origin` 
20140330 21:55:23< shadowm> 4. Run `git describe`
20140330 21:55:40< shadowm> And I want to see the result of (4) before continuing.
20140330 21:56:06< Dugi> I don't have any local changes I need to back up, just some unimportant stuff I have saved somewhere.
20140330 21:56:27< Dugi> Should I do the git checkout master or do I have to purge them?
20140330 21:57:03< shadowm> "If you do, save them with `git stash` so you can recover them at a later point." (The alternative is to throw them away forever with `git reset --hard`.)
20140330 21:57:42< Dugi> I have no need of them, so I am proceeding to step 2.
20140330 21:58:09< shadowm> If you have local changes to versioned files Git won't let you proceed with step 3 without stashing them or throwing them away.
20140330 21:58:10< Dugi> Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 139 commits, and can be fast-forwarded'.
20140330 21:58:27< Dugi> The aren't in versioned files.
20140330 21:58:34< shadowm> Then it doesn't matter.
20140330 21:58:50< shadowm> They don't count as local changes either in that case.
20140330 21:58:57< Dugi> Doing step 3.
20140330 21:59:29< Dugi> It complains about untracked files, I'll just delete them.
20140330 21:59:46< shadowm> `git status` doesn't complain about untracked files, it just informs you of their existence.
20140330 22:00:02< Dugi> But git pull origin does.
20140330 22:00:16< shadowm> No command should complain about them unless their names conflict with stuff Git needs to check out into the working tree.
20140330 22:00:52< shadowm> Of course, at this point I could make a couple of guesses as to what those conflicting files are.
20140330 22:01:19< shadowm> Like the missing src/serialization/unicode.?pp from the hand-merge.
20140330 22:01:36< Dugi> Yes, that was one of them.
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20140330 22:01:52< Dugi> I have removed them, it ran fine.
20140330 22:02:23< Dugi> shadowm: git describe returned me this : 1.11.11-264-g5530cd0 
20140330 22:03:00< shadowm> Oh, good, then we can go ahead with the fun part.
20140330 22:03:34< shadowm> 5. Check out back to your topic branch: `git checkout dugi/addon_reviews`   (assuming I have the name right)
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20140330 22:04:12< shadowm> 6. Run `git rebase -i master` and read the instructions that will be presented to you (in the same editor Git normally uses there for commit messages) before doing anything else.
20140330 22:04:15< Dugi> shadowm: It ran without issues.
20140330 22:05:32< shadowm> Now, you are probably at step 6 right now.
20140330 22:05:34< Dugi> shadowm: Should I remove the lines about the commits I want to remove?
20140330 22:05:43< shadowm> Exactly.
20140330 22:06:10< shadowm> In this case, we want to remove all the commits preceding the line "8945ef1 Added the possibility to use smaller steps and show maximum value on sliders.".
20140330 22:06:52< shadowm> Once you do that, save the file and close the editor and git rebase will do what you've just told it to do.
20140330 22:08:44< Dugi> git rebase clashed with serialization/preprocessor.cpp what should I do? Replace the file with the latest file? I didn't edit anything here.
20140330 22:09:19< shadowm> Hm, I did the operation here and it succeeded without conflicts in any step.
20140330 22:10:22< Dugi> I had a conflict, I believe the problem are just some old files.
20140330 22:11:18< shadowm> You can abort the rebase with `git rebase --abort` and retry `git rebase -i master`, and compare your rebase instructions with these: http://pastebin.com/sXjFBDgQ (the "AFTER" section)
20140330 22:12:35< Dugi> The result is identical.
20140330 22:13:00< shadowm> Hm, then there's no reason why it should conflict, given that we both have the same master ref.
20140330 22:13:52< shadowm> So exactly what does it say about the conflict before returning?
20140330 22:14:48< Dugi> It says this: http://pastebin.com/qBzivaQT
20140330 22:15:33< shadowm> Uhhhhhh.
20140330 22:15:54< shadowm> You are using the command `git rebase -i master` from the correct branch, right?
20140330 22:16:36< Dugi> Yes.
20140330 22:16:52< shadowm> It shouldn't be trying to reapply a commit of mine on top of master.
20140330 22:17:25< shadowm> `git rebase --abort`, then `git describe`.
20140330 22:17:44< Dugi> It returns this: 1.11.11-271-gdaac662
20140330 22:18:18< shadowm> `git cherry master`
20140330 22:18:43< Dugi> Weird command.
20140330 22:19:16< Dugi> http://pastebin.com/dF9VRpNJ
20140330 22:19:38< Dugi> That's what it returns.
20140330 22:19:40< shadowm> Okay.
20140330 22:19:52< shadowm> Why does your branch look completely different to mine that's supposed to be yours? :p
20140330 22:20:00< shadowm> `git log master..HEAD`
20140330 22:21:00< Dugi> Returns this: http://pastebin.com/YP1Jquec
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20140330 22:21:31< shadowm> Uhhh.
20140330 22:21:36-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140330 22:21:46< shadowm> That's the rebased result.
20140330 22:22:02< Dugi> It shouldn't be?
20140330 22:22:06< shadowm> I thought rebase -i had failed?
20140330 22:23:59< Dugi> I was doing only rebase, not rebase -i.
20140330 22:24:49< shadowm> Okay, so why didn't you do exactly what I was telling you to do?
20140330 22:25:13< Dugi> You told me to use git rebase, not git rebase -i.
20140330 22:25:28< shadowm> 19:04:10 <shadowm> 6. Run `git rebase -i master` [...]
20140330 22:25:49< Dugi> I did git rebase -i master.
20140330 22:25:55< shadowm> At no point I told you to run `git rebase` without at least one switch or argument.
20140330 22:26:41 * shadowm (note to self: require people to script(1) their sessions.)
20140330 22:27:06< Dugi> You told me this, I probably misunderstood: Once you do that, save the file and close the editor and git rebase will do what you've just told it to do.
20140330 22:27:32< Dugi> So I wrote git rebase only. It crashed anyway, did it cause any problems?
20140330 22:27:38< shadowm> Dugi: Right, I didn't wrap that name in quotes so I thought it was obvious I was referring to the previous command.
20140330 22:28:00< shadowm> That is, the previous command spawned an editor, and after closing the editor, it proceeded to apply the changes you requested.
20140330 22:28:15< Dugi> I have done that part.
20140330 22:28:26< shadowm> After that point you probably attempted to rebase the result on top of... some ancestor ref, not sure which.
20140330 22:28:28< Dugi> But then I wrote ony 'git rebase'.
20140330 22:28:45< shadowm> But you used `git rebase --abort` later to discard those attempts, so it doesn't matter.
20140330 22:29:10< shadowm> I also asked you to compare the rebase instructions later and you neglected to mention we were already looking at parallel universes.
20140330 22:29:13< Dugi> Yes, I always did git rebase --abort after getting that warning.
20140330 22:29:43< shadowm> But okay, well done, you rebased your branch on top of master, and also erased the garbage commits in the process.
20140330 22:29:56< shadowm> Before force-pushing it to your fork, I'd like you to go and try the following:
20140330 22:30:07< shadowm> 1) Build Wesnoth (still in your topic branch).
20140330 22:30:20< shadowm> 2) Connect to the add-ons server.
20140330 22:30:32< Dugi> Using the old cache or completely from scratch?
20140330 22:30:36< shadowm> 3) Click on the Description button in the Add-ons Manager view.
20140330 22:30:56< shadowm> 4) Confirm or deny the existence of this issue: http://pastebin.com/uCr8SQb5
20140330 22:31:24< shadowm> Dugi: scons (or ccache if you are using ccache) should figure out by itself what files need to be rebuilt or not, so it doesn't matter.
20140330 22:32:01< Dugi> I've seen problems where cmake didn't notice it, but it was only once so it could have been just a wrong observation.
20140330 22:32:19< shadowm> Oh right, you are using cmake, I forgot.
20140330 22:33:10< shadowm> I don't use cmake regularly, so no idea -- plus I have ccache sitting between the compiler and build system for everything anyway.
20140330 22:34:23< Dugi> Still compiling...
20140330 22:36:51-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has quit [Quit: i go nstuf kthxbai]
20140330 22:39:44< Dugi> Compiled it.
20140330 22:39:52< Aishiko_laptop> mordante I've updated my proposal again, I would like to discuss what you think when you have time.
20140330 22:42:43< Dugi> shadowm: I didn't encounter that issue.
20140330 22:43:25< shadowm> Dugi: `git status data/gui` ?
20140330 22:43:55< shadowm> Oh, wait, are you connecting to your local add-ons server, or the official one?
20140330 22:44:20< Dugi> Nothing. Tells this: http://pastebin.com/FVxfj9bK
20140330 22:44:46< Dugi> I am connecting to my local add-ons server, but the result should be the same with the official one, I made it backwards-compatible.
20140330 22:44:55-!- venom087 [6027ec26@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.39.236.38] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140330 22:45:18< shadowm> I am not too convinced. What happens if you go to the official add-ons server and try to check the description of an add-on?
20140330 22:46:27< Dugi> Nothing unusual.
20140330 22:46:51< shadowm> Why is it failing for me then...
20140330 22:47:58< shadowm> Just to be sure, is Wesnoth really looking at your Git working tree for its data directory?
20140330 22:48:32< shadowm> The data directory it uses is mentioned near the beginning of the log during the initialization phase.
20140330 22:49:01< Dugi> Ah, yes, data directory is different. Lemme correct it.
20140330 22:49:30< Dugi> I have the old file here.
20140330 22:49:58< Dugi> I must have forgotten to include that change.
20140330 22:51:25< shadowm> The default sorting of the add-ons list changed but there's no new option in the filter options dialogue reflecting that either. I assume this goes along the same lines as the Description dialog crash.
20140330 22:52:10-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140330 22:53:16< Dugi> Nope, I didn't do anything with the filter, I have never used that feature.
20140330 22:53:17< shadowm> We can worry about cleaning up your branch further later. For now, just commit the required changes to your current branc.
20140330 22:53:32< Dugi> I can't push the commit.
20140330 22:53:34< shadowm> ... Okay sure, but you changed the default sorting of the add-ons dialog.
20140330 22:53:50< shadowm> In order to do that, you must have realized that there were three existing sorting methods.
20140330 22:54:31< Dugi> It tells this: http://pastebin.com/vDphH4ay What should I do? I don't want to mess up something again.
20140330 22:54:34< shadowm> The method selection is done from the options dialog. It should all be fairly self-explanatory.
20140330 22:55:07< Dugi> I addead a fourth sorting method, but didn't think what actually uses them.
20140330 22:55:32< shadowm> Dugi: Let me preface this with a reminder that this is your fork, and this is all for a pull request that's in the process of being (slowly) reviewed.
20140330 22:56:01< shadowm> Dugi: That said, you can force-push your updated branch to the remote repository corresponding to your fork, overwriting where the branch points to in the remote.
20140330 22:56:38< shadowm> In the remote, this results in history being rewritten, and those commits that aren't linked in the new history become lost forever.
20140330 22:57:08< shadowm> So this is your personal fork, and this is for a pull request, so we can do this without breaking anything for anyone else:
20140330 22:57:14< Dugi> I have pushed it, then.
20140330 22:57:25< shadowm> `git push -f fork dugi/addon_reviews`
20140330 22:57:34< Dugi> I did that.
20140330 22:57:39< shadowm> -f for "break things".
20140330 22:58:12< Dugi> I thought it was an abbrev of --force , a command to use Jedi powers.
20140330 22:58:23< shadowm> When contributing to a public repository everyone relies upon, you should never do this without a very good reason, because it breaks everything for everyone. But in this case we actually intended to break it, so it's good.
20140330 22:58:53-!- neXyon_ [~neXyon@85-127-125-102.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: bye]
20140330 22:58:55< shadowm> As you can see, now the pull request reflects the new state without the previous history: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/134
20140330 22:59:29< Dugi> I see.
20140330 23:00:38< gfgtdf> iceiceice online ?
20140330 23:00:54< Dugi> shadowm: Silly, I have also forgotten to write a note when there are no reviews to show.
20140330 23:01:36< shadowm> Dugi: In user-facing strings in the game UI we use Unicode single-quotes and double-quotes.
20140330 23:01:37< Aishiko_laptop> wesbot seen iceiceice
20140330 23:01:37< wesbot> Aishiko_laptop: The person with the nick iceiceice last spoke 1h 41m ago.  9m 27s ago they left with the message: Quit: Leaving
20140330 23:02:14< Dugi> shadowm: Did I do something else somewhere?
20140330 23:02:19< shadowm> Dugi: In particular, we use U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK instead of U+0027 APOSTROPHE (a.k.a. ASCII apostrophe).
20140330 23:02:36< shadowm> "Players' rating" in the WML uses the latter.
20140330 23:03:22< shadowm> I also don't like the presence of an apostrophe there as a matter of principle, hm.
20140330 23:03:23< Dugi> shadowm: Ah, that. I use the ASCII apostrophe for that. Did you mean that I should use the ` symbol instead?
20140330 23:04:16< Dugi> shadowm: The apostrophe belongs to that expression, no?
20140330 23:04:28< shadowm> Dugi: I've used ` throughout this conversation to denote command lines because, incidentally, Unix shells typically use that character to interpolate the command's stdout into the string. But ` is not the character we use either.
20140330 23:04:41< shadowm> ` is actually U+0060 GRAVE ACCENT.
20140330 23:05:23< Dugi> shadowm: That's the grave accent? I thought it was ` . Hm same symbol, but different keyboard combination.
20140330 23:05:59< shadowm> _8680_: We want a form label for the rating given by players to an add-on. Should it be "Players’ rating" or "Players rating"?
20140330 23:06:47< shadowm> _8680_: "Rating given by players" or any other > 3 words label is not an option.
20140330 23:07:26< shadowm> Dugi: ‘ is U+2018 LEFT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK, ’ is U+2019 RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK
20140330 23:07:46< AI0867> shadowm: the former, I believe
20140330 23:07:54< shadowm> The character you wrote several times above is U+0060.
20140330 23:08:24< Dugi> So I should use ‘ in players' rating?
20140330 23:08:27< AI0867> “and these are the double ones”
20140330 23:08:30< vultraz> shadowm: "Player ratings"?
20140330 23:08:32< shadowm> ' ` ‘ , the difference may not be noticeable for everyone depending on the font in use, and their eyesight.
20140330 23:08:41< Dugi> It refers to multiple players.
20140330 23:09:03< Dugi> I have quite good eyesight, but a dirty screen.
20140330 23:09:11< shadowm> I see there are some friends of the grave accent which have similar glyphs with DejaVu Sans.
20140330 23:09:35< shadowm> Dugi: "Players’ rating".
20140330 23:09:54< Dugi> shadowm: Okay, replaced it.
20140330 23:10:07< Dugi> Does it work now?
20140330 23:10:36< Dugi> Should I give you a server.cfg I used for testing?
20140330 23:10:45 * _8680_ arrives and begins reading backlog.
20140330 23:10:54< vultraz> shadowm: I really don't think it should be Players' ratings. You don't say "users' review" do you?
20140330 23:11:22< vultraz> Or "customers' feedback"
20140330 23:11:42< shadowm> vultraz: Maybe it should just be "Rating", sure.
20140330 23:11:47< Dugi> I meant it as 'rating of the players', not 'ratings of the players'. It is a single rating, averaged.
20140330 23:12:17< shadowm> However, who gives the rating? I surmise the community-driven nature of the add-ons server is extremely non-obvious to newcomers.
20140330 23:12:56< Dugi> That makes sense.
20140330 23:13:02< shadowm> So: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/wesnoth-1.13.0-addon-reviews-1.png
20140330 23:13:15< vultraz> "Player rating" (no possessive) would also work
20140330 23:13:26< vultraz> but I'll hand over to _8680_ now
20140330 23:13:41< shadowm> vultraz: Are we rating the players, or the add-on?
20140330 23:14:04< shadowm> Maybe we are rating how good the players are, *shrug*.
20140330 23:14:37< shadowm> Dugi: So, you said you would handle the case where no reviews have been written yet specially?
20140330 23:14:54-!- spoffy [~spoffy@host-80-47-182-18.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140330 23:15:27< shadowm> Perhaps "not rated" would be a better fallback than 0.0/10 (also why the extra decimal digit?).
20140330 23:15:36< Dugi> I think that there should be a text box that introduces the reviews list, and its text is replaced by a text that there are no reviews and maybe the player could add one.
20140330 23:15:59< Dugi> yes, I should have given it that fallback.
20140330 23:16:32< shadowm> I also think 'rate' makes more sense as a verb for the command button than 'vote'.
20140330 23:16:48< Dugi> Yes, that makes sense.
20140330 23:17:18< shadowm> "OK" in the accompanying popup should probably also be "Rate", too.
20140330 23:17:24< vultraz> Also, I think the Reviews button is in a weird place
20140330 23:17:54< shadowm> Also, the same accompanying popup has a caption in "Sentence case" rather than "Title Case".
20140330 23:18:14< vultraz> I think it should go down with Close
20140330 23:18:16< shadowm> So it should be "Rate This Add-on".
20140330 23:18:51-!- adityapande [ca4eaca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.172.162] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140330 23:19:34< shadowm> Hm.
20140330 23:19:50< Dugi> What do you mean with sentence case and title case?
20140330 23:20:04< vultraz> Dugi: This Is Title Case. This is sentence case.
20140330 23:20:12 * Aishiko_laptop faceplams
20140330 23:20:19< Dugi> Ah, that. Thanks for clarifying.
20140330 23:20:29< shadowm> Here's the slightly more encyclopedic version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_case#Case_styles
20140330 23:21:25< vultraz> Dugi: I was also going to suggest a small "There are no reviews yet" note in the box if that's the case.
20140330 23:21:41< adityapande> Regarding GSoC(global AI) I have been asked for "some wesnoth bugfixes or proof-of-concepts". Any suggestions?
20140330 23:21:46< Dugi> I told that I forgot to handle that case.
20140330 23:21:56< Aishiko_laptop> vultraz, perhaps with a "Be the first to write a review!" afterwards?
20140330 23:22:21< vultraz> Perhaps
20140330 23:22:22< shadowm> On one hand I feel the add-on's rating and the reviews button belong together in the same row.
20140330 23:22:35< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, go to the bug tracker or maybe the easy or not so easy code-fixes found on the wiki?
20140330 23:23:00< shadowm> On the other hand, I also feel the "Hours spent playing" field also belongs in the same row as the rating, but not in the same row as the reviews button.
20140330 23:23:07< _8680_> ...I wasn't prepared for backlog of this magnitude. I'm afraid it's infeasible for me to read all that on this mobile device. Going by just the messages since I was last pinged, I'd say "community rating".
20140330 23:23:31< Dugi> shadowm: I'd say that reviews are related to description rather than to rating.
20140330 23:23:34< shadowm> I also feel that the "hours spent playing" datum is useless.
20140330 23:23:47< vultraz> shadowm: if the review buttons has to stand there, all three should at least be in the same column 
20140330 23:24:14< shadowm> vultraz: I'd prefer if we didn't waste all that precious vertical space.
20140330 23:24:32< shadowm> Think of all the widescreen users for whom vertical space is ridiculously expensive.
20140330 23:24:48-!- ALourenco_ [c189db30@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.137.219.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140330 23:25:37< mattsc> adityapande: there’s the EasyCoding wiki page.  But at this point, Crab_ likely would prefer something closer to your proposal, so you should get in contact with him directly.
20140330 23:25:38< vultraz> shadowm: or what about this: move Translations and Dependencies to a second column like Status and Size, and put all 3 buttons in a row at the bottom
20140330 23:25:39< Dugi> I wonder how would I wrote the GUI WML to make that look good.
20140330 23:25:59< shadowm> What's with you people and your high-resolution widescreen monitors, anyway? Back in the day having a resolution of 800x600 was quite the privilege.
20140330 23:26:11< mattsc> adityapande: also, I know he has made suggestions to other students, so searching the logs of the last few weeks might give you some ideas.
20140330 23:26:29< adityapande> thanks everyone
20140330 23:26:37< shadowm> I remember I had to run with 65536 colors unless I wanted to be constrained to either 640x480 or 640x400.
20140330 23:26:47< Dugi> shadowm: I have 1366x736 or something simlar, vertical space is precious for me too.
20140330 23:27:14 * vultraz 1600x900
20140330 23:27:16< Dugi> vultraz: Translations and Dependencies can be quite long lines, so they should be in separate rows.
20140330 23:27:26< shadowm> Dugi: The standard would be 1366x768.
20140330 23:27:45< shadowm> And since vultraz turned this into a resolution measuring contest, 1920x1080 here.
20140330 23:27:46< _8680_> Or do you think there's a significant chance of that being misinterpreted as a rating of, rather than by, the community?
20140330 23:27:59< Dugi> shadowm: Yes, that. I have rememebered it wrongly or subtracted the size of a toolbar form it.
20140330 23:28:37< vultraz> Dugi: ah, I see. well, I still think either all 3 buttons be aligned to the right of the dialog or in a row at the bottom
20140330 23:28:53< shadowm> Although depending on the monitor's EDID, connection method, and the OS and windowing system you use, you might get 6 pixels less, sideways.
20140330 23:28:55< Dugi> _8680_: I think that the chance of misinterpreting is decreased by having a vote button right next to the display of the players' rating.
20140330 23:29:23< adityapande> mattsc: how to contact crab_ directly? I have not seen him on irc ....
20140330 23:29:43< AI0867> I have a CRT sitting around somewhere that I was surprised could be driven at 1024x768 when I connected it to a linux box, though it could only do so at 37 Hz
20140330 23:29:46< shadowm> I remember someone here took an issue to connecting a 1366x768 display and rounded it to 360x768 instead.
20140330 23:29:50< shadowm> *1360x768
20140330 23:30:42< shadowm> AI0867: Is that the vertical refresh rate?
20140330 23:30:49< AI0867> which is pretty terrible, especially if you use it as a secondary monitor sitting in your peripheral vision
20140330 23:30:57< AI0867> yes
20140330 23:31:03< shadowm> The horizontal would be that times 1000 at least, but still.
20140330 23:31:08< mattsc> adityapande: he does come by here, but seems to be pretty busy at the moment, so it’s hard to say when he’ll be back next.  I would suggest forum PM for “private” questions and the developer mailing list for public ones.  Well, and your melange proposal page, of course.
20140330 23:31:38< shadowm> I could barely tolerate 60 Hz CRTs back in the day -- no more than an hour, usually.
20140330 23:31:53< AI0867> sure, and it's really only 768 lines@37 Hz, given that it's displaying an analog signal
20140330 23:32:15< adityapande> mattsc: what is forum PM? 
20140330 23:32:17< shadowm> Luckily mine could do 85 Hz, but DirectX and some games tend to prefer resolutions that only work with 60 Hz for some reason.
20140330 23:32:30< shadowm> I don't miss CRTs at all. ¬_¬
20140330 23:32:51< mattsc> adityapande: you can send “personal messages” PMs using your Wesnoth forums account.
20140330 23:33:09< adityapande> ok thanks
20140330 23:33:10< _8680_> The chance doesn't seem so high to me, but I suppose it could be worse for people who don't understand English so well.
20140330 23:33:15< adityapande> i shall try it
20140330 23:34:13< shadowm> Dugi: I'm not too concerned about the UI layout (note: layout, not functionality) at this point since that can be amended at any point post-merge depending on current and future trends.
20140330 23:34:14< mattsc> adityapande: I’d also suggest hanging out on irc as much as possible - even though it sometimes takes a bit of patience
20140330 23:34:37< vultraz> shadowm: 85 hz exists?
20140330 23:34:56< AI0867> vultraz: 85 Hz means 85 per second
20140330 23:35:04< adityapande> mattsc: i will do that as much as possible. Thanks
20140330 23:35:05< shadowm> vultraz: CRTs tended to do a wider range of clock modes than LCDs.
20140330 23:35:25< AI0867> you can run a CRT at *any* speed or resolution, as long as the electron beam can keep up
20140330 23:36:03< AI0867> of course, the courseness of the phosphors can make high resolutions pointless
20140330 23:36:05< shadowm> Although 85 > 60, the thing is that with CRTs you want a higher vertical refresh rate so that your eyes can't see the big flash of white so often.
20140330 23:36:34< vultraz> (BTW, by CTR do you mean those ugly-ass things with the huge backs?)
20140330 23:36:36< shadowm> Lower v-refresh rate, more obvious big flash of white -> headaches.
20140330 23:36:39< vultraz> CRT*
20140330 23:36:42< AI0867> vultraz: Cathode Ray Tube
20140330 23:37:06< shadowm> I forget some people here have never even seen a CRT. <_<
20140330 23:37:59< Dugi> I thought that those who haven't seen it are kids, not people with over 20 years of age.
20140330 23:38:14< AI0867> Dugi: you have a misconception about vultraz
20140330 23:39:03< shadowm> Dugi: Why can I choose 6.1, 6.2, etc. when rating an add-on? Shouldn't people just be allowed to choose progressions of 0.5?
20140330 23:39:35< Dugi> shadowm: Why not numbers in between?
20140330 23:40:15< shadowm> Or more to the point, why would anyone legitimately want to give someone a rating of n + 0.1m ?
20140330 23:40:56< shadowm> Would you sincerely give something a rating of 9.9 instead of 9, for example?
20140330 23:41:28< Dugi> Add-on A might have a rating of 6.6 and add-on B might have a rating of 6.9, and you're rating an add-on that is better than A, but worse than B, you might want to choose.
20140330 23:42:08< shadowm> What if both have a rating of 6.6?
20140330 23:42:33< Dugi> If there happened to be a lot of ratings like 9.3 and 9.5, you'd be interested in rating them using decimals.
20140330 23:42:58< vultraz> wow, really? "9.9" is an emote on chatzilla
20140330 23:43:06< shadowm> How is the add-on's rating calculated? Is it an average?
20140330 23:43:18< AI0867> Dugi: you're now rating relative to average ratings, rather than relative to your own ratings for those add-ons
20140330 23:45:15< Dugi> I think that people will get ideas from the numbers they see, they'll adopt their own meaning of the numbers later.
20140330 23:46:01< Dugi> shadowm: Yes, it is an average. But the one on the add-ons' list is also calculated from the number of downloads and hours played per a certain amount of time.
20140330 23:46:07< happygrue> After grading a lot of things as a teacher I found myself going simpler rather than more complex.  1-10 seems like a huge range still.  I think it's not just a coincidence that most online retailers are using 1-5 stars.
20140330 23:46:42< happygrue> the idea: "is it good, fair, or bad" and not "is it 6.8 vs. 7.1" being the primary goal IMO
20140330 23:47:27< AI0867> http://m.xkcd.com/1098/
20140330 23:47:37< AI0867> there's a reason why youtube switched to like/dislike
20140330 23:47:58< happygrue> also this:  https://xkcd.com/937/
20140330 23:47:58< shadowm> Sure, but I don't like YouTube's system either.
20140330 23:47:59< happygrue> :D
20140330 23:48:03< happygrue> one of my favorites!
20140330 23:48:11< Dugi> happygrue: I think that the point was also to tell how good it was, not only to tell the good from awesome and the good from bad. But fendrin told me to do the numerical rating, and he's away and can't tell his imput.
20140330 23:49:03< shadowm> It lends itself to people 'disliking' things for inane reasons (or just due to personal bias against the author) and 'liking' worthless crap.
20140330 23:49:15< happygrue> Dugi: that's fine.  1-10 is fine, having decimals isn't bad either - but my opinion is that it will make a few people very happy to have those decimals and waste lots of people's time a tiny bit.
20140330 23:49:20< happygrue> not a big deal either way, really.
20140330 23:49:55< Dugi> shadowm: I second that.
20140330 23:50:32< shadowm> I personally feel that the decimal digit makes the whole thing less streamlined, but that might be because I have a general aversion to decimals outside of a purely-functional context.
20140330 23:51:17< shadowm> Like whenever I find $990 in a price tag.
20140330 23:51:46< AI0867> not $999.99 ?
20140330 23:51:49< shadowm> "It's $1000 for all intents and purposes, why can't it be $1000?"
20140330 23:52:16< Dugi> Because they want you to carry all those small bills and coins around and buy lottery tickets to get rid of them.
20140330 23:52:17< shadowm> AI0867: Technically, the currency we use here supports decimals but those never happen.
20140330 23:52:19< vultraz> Because it's psychologically cheaper as $999.99 or .90
20140330 23:52:22< AI0867> or as it frequently says at gas stations: $1.99⁹
20140330 23:52:41< shadowm> The smallest physical denomination is $1.
20140330 23:53:04< _8680_> I've never encountered any rating scheme that allows finer increments than .5.
20140330 23:53:21< happygrue> $1.99!  Where are you buying gas AI0867?  I want to drive there to fill up! ;)
20140330 23:53:32< AI0867> (no, they don't mean $512, just that it's only .5% cheaper than $2
20140330 23:53:40< AI0867> happygrue: I live in the EU, we pay by the liter
20140330 23:53:50< _8680_> (I think.)
20140330 23:54:06< Dugi> AI0867: In dollars? Not in € like here?
20140330 23:54:07< AI0867> multiply by ~3.8 to get US gallons
20140330 23:54:09< happygrue> I assumed as much ;)
20140330 23:54:12-!- irker392 [~irker@fehu.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20140330 23:54:18< happygrue> yes, my plan has several errors in it
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20140330 23:54:33< AI0867> Dugi: I was giving random examples, and € takes more effort to type
20140330 23:54:49< happygrue> a question:  do people buy pizzas in inches anywhere in Europe?  England perhaps?
20140330 23:54:55< AI0867> and $2 is roughly the right price, taking the exchange rate into account
20140330 23:55:12< happygrue> someone overseas was mentioning eating a 16 inch pizza and I wasn't sure why he said inches, after the fact.
20140330 23:55:24< AI0867> happygrue: in italy you can get rectangular pieces of pizza, but they're measured by weight
20140330 23:55:30< happygrue> I recall that
20140330 23:55:32< AI0867> oh, diameter
20140330 23:55:35< happygrue> by the kilo
20140330 23:55:39< AI0867> no, those are centimeters
20140330 23:56:09< happygrue> so when you order a pizza, you would measure it in cm?
20140330 23:56:16< Dugi> happygrue: I've seen both possibilities here, also by weight and also by diameter. The diameter is in centimetres, though.
20140330 23:56:22< happygrue> I see.
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20140330 23:56:45< AI0867> 25cm, 30cm and such are standard sizes
20140330 23:56:54< happygrue> so he must have been talking to Americans or something, or maybe eating in a Pizza Hut?
20140330 23:56:57 * happygrue shrugs
20140330 23:57:01< AI0867> but that's for cheap takeaway stuff
20140330 23:57:03< shadowm> Yesterday I was pondering the sheer ridiculousness of the system we use to label wooden plank dimensions.
20140330 23:57:11< AI0867> is it the US one
20140330 23:57:12< AI0867> ?
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20140330 23:57:40< shadowm> WxHxL -- W is in inches, H is in inches, and L is in meters.
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20140330 23:57:52< AI0867> okay, US + metric length
20140330 23:57:52< shadowm> We use the metric system here.
20140330 23:57:54< Dugi> shadowm: What the hell? That's mad.
20140330 23:58:04< AI0867> because US dimensional lumber
20140330 23:58:04< happygrue> that is pretty wild
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20140330 23:58:43< AI0867> it probably comes from the same mills, so you could multiply it by 2.54, but you wouldn't get a pretty number
20140330 23:58:56< iceiceice> hmm checking logs now...
20140330 23:59:03< happygrue> though we use metric for liquids sometimes over here too, a holdover from when the attemt to go metric happened decades ago
20140330 23:59:36< Aishiko_laptop> and it gets better 2 inches wide lumber is like 1.5 inches and 4 inch height is like 3.5 as they take the measurements before they dry and treat it these days, those numbers used to be what you actually got when you bought it
20140330 23:59:49< happygrue> heh
--- Log closed Mon Mar 31 00:00:24 2014