--- Log opened Mon Mar 31 00:00:24 2014
--- Day changed Mon Mar 31 2014
20140331 00:00:24< Dugi> happygrue: In Europe, we changed to metric because every country had its own inches, feet and miles. Napoleon actually used his dictatorship to push this nice idea over Europe.
20140331 00:00:38< AI0867> also, driving on the right side of the road
20140331 00:01:04< AI0867> though I think we got CET from the germans
20140331 00:01:25< AI0867> both WWI and WWII
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20140331 00:02:35< Dugi> AI0867: Yeah, Hitler spread it all over Europe, because he liked American motorism.
20140331 00:03:03< happygrue> Dugi: there was an attempt to convert here in the US too, so now we have CC for medical liquids and Liters for measuring soda (but nothing else IIRC)
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20140331 00:03:27< happygrue> but there was backlash, so milk and most things are still in Gallons
20140331 00:03:30< happygrue> :(
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20140331 00:04:40< AI0867> the backlash was pretty tiny
20140331 00:04:48< Dugi> happygrue: In Europe, we still use feet, inches and miles in some really rare cases, but I can't think of any example outside poetry.
20140331 00:04:49< AI0867> it was just that nobody cared enough to push it through
20140331 00:05:06< happygrue> I suppose that is a better way of putting it.
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20140331 00:05:40< AI0867> and now we're stuck using inches and cubic feet in various engineering disciplines because the standards body lives in the US
20140331 00:07:32< Aishiko_laptop> thats stupid AI0867 after all most countries use metric now I thought
20140331 00:10:31< happygrue> What, like you expect us to want to give up measuring things in foot-pounds?
20140331 00:10:36< happygrue> such a lovely unit.
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20140331 00:11:04< happygrue> ;)
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20140331 00:11:54< Aishiko_laptop> I find using metric so much easier to deal with then the US system of measurements
20140331 00:13:11< Dugi> It's too late, I am leaving. I'll be back tomorrow maybe.
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20140331 00:19:59< iceiceice> by far the worst thing is that you may need to have multiple sets of tools for cars and motorcycles and such
20140331 00:20:44< iceiceice> back when all the car companies were going bankrupt i kept saying "fine if we are going to bail them out, the govt should force them to metric" :)
20140331 00:21:10< Aishiko_laptop> iceiceice, I sort of agree with that
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20140331 00:29:25< gfgtdf> iceiceice: in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/121 you said you cherrypicked a commit ?
20140331 00:29:53< gfgtdf> iceiceice: first  cannot see it on maser and second i fear that might casue problems when i rebase that commit
20140331 00:29:54< iceiceice> gfgtdf: only locally as a test
20140331 00:30:12< iceiceice> i didnt cherry pick your commit into wesnoth master without asking ^^
20140331 00:30:22< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ok :9
20140331 00:30:24< gfgtdf> :)
20140331 00:35:19< gfgtdf> iceiceice: to rebase onto mastr i have to write masteretwice like rebase --onto master master ?
20140331 00:35:48< iceiceice> i think you only use --onto if you are doing someting exotic
20140331 00:35:53< iceiceice> like taking a branch and putting it somewhere lese
20140331 00:36:06< iceiceice> if your branch is already based off master you just use rebase -i master
20140331 00:36:13< iceiceice> or rebase master
20140331 00:36:34< gfgtdf> iceiceice: noo i wanto re solver merging conflicts
20140331 00:36:52< iceiceice> i think you still just use rebase master
20140331 00:37:34< gfgtdf> hm then i didnt understand rebase onto
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20140331 01:52:20< iceiceice> idk you are the only one of us who has actually used rebase onto :)
20140331 01:52:26< iceiceice> so you must understand it
20140331 01:53:00< iceiceice> i dont think --onto is special its just a different syntax?
20140331 01:53:16< iceiceice> im not sure, if i'm on branch topic.. then i think "rebase master" is the same as "rebase --onto master master topic" ?
20140331 01:57:14< shadowm> "If the --onto option is not specified, the starting point is <upstream>" (as in `git rebase [<upstream>] [<branch>]`)
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20140331 02:08:40< mattsc> shadowm: you’ve implemented (or at least changed) some of the :inspect display, right?  Has Wesnoth ever crashed for you when using it?
20140331 02:09:43< mattsc> I do occasionally get an assertion failure when clicking on units, but I have never quite been able to figure out what exactly triggers it.  Right now I got it again and the assert points to src/gui/widgets/grid.cpp, line 529
20140331 02:10:27< mattsc> If I can ever figure out a way to reproduce it reliably, I’ll send you more information.
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20140331 02:19:46< irker777> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 5467b7a8c5a0 / src/tests/test_serialization.cpp: Fix encoding of a test http://git.io/q2IYyA
20140331 02:19:48< irker777> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 4d464bf8d240 / changelog data/core/about.cfg src/playmp_controller.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/tYeLkg
20140331 02:20:35< AI0867> aquileia ^
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20140331 02:27:37< shadowm> mattsc: I'm fairly certain that issue predates my changes.
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20140331 02:28:55< shadowm> Keep in mind that the dialog by design (GUI2's design) changes geometry _a lot_ all the time. I suspect the framework is unable to handle certain border cases found in that dialog under specific conditions.
20140331 02:29:26< mattsc> shadowm: okay - as I said, I don’t really know how to reproduce it.  I’ve sometimes had the feeling that it only happens when there is a scrollbar.  But then it clearly doesn’t always happen when there is a scrollbar.
20140331 02:29:36< shadowm> It's also notable in that it has more than one instance of the GUI2 listbox widget. I'd say it's a wonder it doesn't SIGSEGV all the time instead of failing assertion checks.
20140331 02:29:55< mattsc> okay  :P
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20140331 02:46:49< gfgtdf_> shadowm: what is the exact difference betwen "Programming", and "Miscellaneous Contributors" in teh about file ?
20140331 02:47:25< gfgtdf_> if someone does programming but also does other things then he goes in Miscellaneous  ?
20140331 02:47:39< shadowm> The first is for only people with push access to the repository.
20140331 02:47:42< shadowm> *only for
20140331 02:49:32< shadowm> Everyone here who joined since 2006 or 2007 started in the Miscellaneous Contributors section and has promoted themselves to Programming after they have become comfortable as a regular member of the development team (or after being prodded about it by someone else in case they forgot).
20140331 02:49:52< gfgtdf_> shadowm: but people like JaMiT, mattsc or Coffee are also in misc.
20140331 02:50:02< gfgtdf_> nd the y have access i tihnk
20140331 02:50:04< gfgtdf_> and*
20140331 02:50:31< shadowm> If they are exclusively in MC, they should move themselves to Programming. If they are in both sections, the entries in MC should be deleted.
20140331 02:51:31< gfgtdf_> hm ok
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20140331 03:22:02< Aishiko_laptop> I know I won't have put myself in MC without being told to
20140331 03:25:05< Aishiko_laptop> so I won't be self promoting =P
20140331 03:31:55< iceiceice> quick question:
20140331 03:32:12< iceiceice> i was tinkering yesterday with how to set up WML unit test scenarios
20140331 03:32:37< iceiceice> at the end i made some examples, and a bash script wml_unit_test which i am currently putting in the root directory of the repo
20140331 03:32:40< iceiceice> is that bad form?
20140331 03:32:45< iceiceice> should it be in tools or something?
20140331 03:33:38< iceiceice> i'm hoping to figure out some way to link these in with the regular tests but right now i think i want to base the tests on calling with wesnoth with command line arguments, and i'm not sure how to do that in C++ portably
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20140331 03:34:54< iceiceice> s/tools/utils
20140331 03:35:46< vultraz> what would it test?
20140331 03:37:22< iceiceice> you could run any small scenario that doesnt require input and check if some WML construction works
20140331 03:37:32< iceiceice> heres an example test:
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20140331 03:37:49< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/L5SJjqFH
20140331 03:38:30< iceiceice> i have some other slightly more sophisticated examples :p https://github.com/cbeck88/wesnoth-old/compare/wmltest
20140331 03:49:52< iceiceice> gfgtdf: quick question, why don't you just rethrow the network error?
20140331 03:49:59< iceiceice> does that not work for some reason?
20140331 03:51:27< iceiceice> vultraz: so idk, i guess i'm imagining that people might take any tidbit of wml that is important in mainline or umc and commit it as a test
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20140331 03:51:43< iceiceice> so you might take the thirst thing from utbs, run a scenario for one turn and verify that units were harmed / hurt appropriately
20140331 03:52:07< iceiceice> or you might take some complicated lua construction that you use in an add-on and write a little test and commit it
20140331 03:52:22< iceiceice> so that we can maintain backwards compatibility more easily
20140331 03:53:28< iceiceice> otherwise if someone breaks something like that accidentally the only way we find out is if someone tries the scenario and figures out that its broken...
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20140331 04:07:52< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i guess i shouldn't make inline commits because they go away when the rebase happens :/
20140331 04:07:59< iceiceice> s/commits/comments
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20140331 11:55:07< Dugi> wesbot: seen mordante
20140331 11:55:07< wesbot> Dugi: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 18h 40m ago.  18h 40m ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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20140331 12:49:25< adityapande> ClCompile: 1>  version.cpp 1>b:\wesnoth-1.10.7\wesnoth-1.10.7\src\serialization\string_utils.hpp(25): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/next_prior.hpp': Invalid argument 1>  tstring.cpp 1>b:\wesnoth-1.10.7\wesnoth-1.10.7\src\shared_object.hpp(20): fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/multi_index_container.hpp': Invalid argument 1>  thread.cpp 1>b:\wesnoth-1.10.7\wesnoth-1.10.7\src\thread.hpp
20140331 12:49:36< adityapande> while compiling using VC12
20140331 12:52:44< Soliton> looks like you don't have some boost dependency or not in the dir expected by the project.
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20140331 12:53:48< adityapande> ii tried compiling seeing http://wiki.wesnoth.org/CompilingWesnothOnWindows page
20140331 12:54:01< adityapande> how shall i proceed?
20140331 12:55:56< adityapande> or shall i try compiling in linux?
20140331 12:56:09< zookeeper> why are .cfg files with spaces in their names causing errors now?
20140331 12:56:15< Dugi> adityapande: Try it, compiling on Linux is far easuer.
20140331 12:56:29< adityapande> yes i shall try it
20140331 12:57:21< AI0867> zookeeper: because they caused various not-very-visible issues
20140331 12:57:35< AI0867> so we decided to make them cause very visible issues instead
20140331 12:57:51< AI0867> also, spaces are evil
20140331 12:58:08< zookeeper> what kind of issues?
20140331 12:59:04< AI0867> various tools can't handle them. The preprocessor used space-separated items to provide the filenames in the parse tree
20140331 12:59:41< AI0867> wescamp couldn't handle them
20140331 12:59:51< zookeeper> i see
20140331 13:00:01< AI0867> and I think that was a wmlxgettext issue, so you couldn't get them translated, mainline or not
20140331 13:02:03< zookeeper> kinda dorky for the error to be fatal though, if there's no reason to
20140331 13:16:30< Dugi> Maybe it should give a fatal warning instead :D
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20140331 13:37:28< iceiceice> fatal warning, kind of like a jumbo shrimp?
20140331 13:37:38< iceiceice> "Warning: You are dead!"
20140331 13:43:57< AI0867> I think it's only in english that the word 'shrimp' sounds like and may be related to being small
20140331 13:44:06< AI0867> in dutch it's "garnaal"
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20140331 13:52:34< iceiceice> i guess it must just be an americanism or something
20140331 13:52:48< iceiceice> at least as i learned it it has a connotation of "small" not having to do with the sound of the word
20140331 13:53:11< iceiceice> e.g. if an animal or a person is a "runt" they might also be called a "shrimp" or "shrimpy"
20140331 13:57:01< happygrue> adityapande: compiling on windows might have better results using:  https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/tree/master/projectfiles/CodeBlocks
20140331 13:57:14< happygrue> the wiki should be updated I guess
20140331 13:57:40< happygrue> Or using linux tends to work also.  ;)
20140331 13:58:00< adityapande> i will try codeblocks and linux both
20140331 13:58:22< adityapande> but i didn't understand why VC12 failed to compile it...
20140331 13:59:05< happygrue> No idea about that, as I never tried it.  But I found CodeBlocks to work easily.
20140331 13:59:15< adityapande> thanks
20140331 13:59:37< adityapande> actually i will prefer windows....
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20140331 14:21:04< vultraz> Dugi: your IPF preview addon is very helpful
20140331 14:23:20< Dugi> vultraz: Thanks.
20140331 14:23:44< vultraz> I would suggest a button to clear the textbox, however
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20140331 14:23:52< vultraz> suggest adding
20140331 14:24:13< Dugi> vultraz: Yes, that's not a bad idea.
20140331 14:25:34< Dugi> vultraz: I think that I should also prevent the enter button from exiting the dialogue, leading to accidental loss of the string.
20140331 14:25:57< vultraz> Yes
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20140331 14:44:38< vultraz> weird. 1.11.12 release, click on a unit, the minimap brightens too
20140331 14:49:23< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by Elvish_Hunter [ 03-31-2014 14:48 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568841 ]
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20140331 15:17:50< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by iceiceice [ 03-31-2014 15:17 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568843 ]
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20140331 15:23:50< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 84b1234835e1 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: [micro_ai] tag: move CA_path definition to beginning of file http://git.io/qMxxHA
20140331 15:23:50< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 7c3d9093fbf0 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: Micro AIs: fix bug requiring unnecessary keys for MAI removal http://git.io/JLEOXw
20140331 15:23:50< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 96e84f24c59c / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_unit_variables.lua: MAIs: add utility functions for storing information in unit variables http://git.io/RcLvrQ
20140331 15:23:51< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 24881edfb3fa / data/ai/micro_ais/ (cas/ca_goto.lua cas/ca_hang_out.lua micro_ai_helper.lua micro_ai_wml_tag.lua): Micro AIs: use AI id instead of CA id as identifier http://git.io/IwmtCA
20140331 15:23:52< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master bfb33151539d / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: Micro AIs: another bug fix for required keys for MAI removal http://git.io/4NQuUg
20140331 15:23:54< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master a4ee966d0669 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Fix comments http://git.io/MdT7vw
20140331 15:23:56< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 49cc3bc7f9d3 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (9 files): Micro AIs: use the new functions for storing information in units http://git.io/34ya0A
20140331 15:23:58< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master c24ddb71b217 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Micro AIs bug fix: remove MAI unit variables on MAI removal http://git.io/DhiJyA
20140331 15:24:00< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master e1bbfc49ada0 / / (14 files in 8 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/rw7wmA
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20140331 15:38:03< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 50c859ddd22c / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: [micro_ai] tag: move CA_path definition to beginning of file http://git.io/J7FqrA
20140331 15:45:58< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 ba394f3d9b3c / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: Micro AIs: fix bug requiring unnecessary keys for MAI removal http://git.io/qmEMAQ
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20140331 15:48:49< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 59b1db09f39b / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_unit_variables.lua: MAIs: add utility functions for storing information in unit variables http://git.io/ObDcNQ
20140331 15:50:49< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 13836c6022bb / data/ai/micro_ais/ (cas/ca_goto.lua cas/ca_hang_out.lua micro_ai_helper.lua micro_ai_wml_tag.lua): Micro AIs: use AI id instead of CA id as identifier http://git.io/NNWYbA
20140331 15:52:36< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 e56f9af794ce / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: Micro AIs: another bug fix for required keys for MAI removal http://git.io/nocoow
20140331 15:53:36< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 7daaa98aa0e7 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Fix comments http://git.io/ObWsaA
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20140331 15:59:54< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 d34fbb7521f1 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (7 files): Micro AIs: use the new functions for storing information in units http://git.io/jqplXw
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20140331 16:02:49< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 b5e4927fd4c5 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Micro AIs bug fix: remove MAI unit variables on MAI removal http://git.io/NhHZiw
20140331 16:07:57< shadowm> Dugi: Are you still maintaining your IPF add-on?
20140331 16:08:21< Dugi> shadowm: Yes.
20140331 16:09:15< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 59b7b34939c9 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_wml_tag.lua: Fix typo http://git.io/Sqy-iQ
20140331 16:09:31< shadowm> I made some... edits to it the other day but didn't do it in an organized (VCS) way.
20140331 16:09:46< Dugi> shadowm: What kind of edits?
20140331 16:10:39< shadowm> Basically I wanted it to remember what the last image path entered during the same session was, and also made it so pressing Enter redisplays the dialog with that path immediately.
20140331 16:11:15< shadowm> (Since there's no way I am aware of at this time to disable the Enter == finish-with-OK-retval behavior.)
20140331 16:11:46< Dugi> shadowm: I wanted to do that too, can you send me the edit?
20140331 16:12:27< shadowm> My changes are a little more invasive than that, though, since I also changed the code formatting, some widget ids, and the GUI layout.
20140331 16:12:55< shadowm> http://pastebin.com/KqGe00u1
20140331 16:14:26< shadowm> I had planned to integrate the whole thing in another add-on but nothing ever came of that idea.
20140331 16:15:11< shadowm> It did help me detect and solve an implementation issue with the ~BG() image path function before 1.11.12, though, which is great.
20140331 16:17:56< janebot> Wesnoth Forums | Developers’ Discussions • Re: Suggestion: keep backwards compatibility by zookeeper [ 03-31-2014 16:15 ] [ http://r.wesnoth.org/p568848 ]
20140331 16:19:37< Dugi> shadowm: Nice changes you've done...
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20140331 16:36:57< Dugi> shadowm: I have slightly changed the position of the buttons and I am going to upload it, do you want to be credited as its co-author?
20140331 16:37:25< shadowm> Sure.
20140331 16:39:07< Dugi> shadowm: Done.
20140331 16:44:21< vultraz> shadowm: JW...why's there's still a Display Titlescreen Animation toggle in advanced Preferences?
20140331 16:46:49< shadowm> I always wonder if I'm the only non-native speaker for whom the meaning of "JW" isn't immediately obvious.
20140331 16:47:55< shadowm> That toggle was first introduced with a default of 'on' ages ago, because the horizontal logo animation bothered me during testing.
20140331 16:48:26< vultraz> I thought that was removed in 1.9
20140331 16:48:26< shadowm> When the titlescreen became a GUI2 dialog in 1.9.x, the animation was found to cause issues and the default became 'off' instead.
20140331 16:48:49< vultraz> It doesn't do anything even when set to ON :/
20140331 16:49:20< shadowm> Try setting it to off and then back to on.
20140331 16:49:31< shadowm> (That's a bug, feel free to fix it.)
20140331 16:50:15< vultraz> Why is it even an option anyway. The animation looked lame and cheesy 
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20140331 16:51:27< shadowm> Maybe some developer liked it.
20140331 16:51:48< shadowm> The option was introduced either in 1.5.x or 1.3.x, so there were people around who you haven't even heard of.
20140331 16:52:40< shadowm> If my memory serves, the conversion to a GUI2 progress bar (don't ask) made the animation much longer than it used to be, though.
20140331 16:52:53< zookeeper> IIRC mordante doesn't want to remove it
20140331 16:53:26< vultraz> ...why
20140331 16:54:03< vultraz> It's off, no longer works, no one has brought it up in years, and it looked cheap
20140331 16:54:16< shadowm> It works, dude.
20140331 16:54:33< shadowm> rgba(255,255,255,0.2)
20140331 16:54:43< shadowm> Er, oops, wrong thing to paste.
20140331 16:54:58< shadowm> 13:49:19 <shadowm> Try setting it to off and then back to on.
20140331 16:55:23< zookeeper> he didn't want to remove it because he had spent time on making it work.
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20140331 17:03:11< AI0867> 18:46 < shadowm> I always wonder if I'm the only non-native speaker for whom the meaning of "JW" isn't immediately obvious. <-- no, JW is a name, and not just the wesnoth one
20140331 17:03:20< AI0867> it took me a moment to realize what vultraz meant
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20140331 17:10:56< _8680_> Me too. I’ve become accustomed to it coming from vultraz, but my mind always assumes it’s someone’s initials for a moment before remembering what he means.
20140331 17:13:10< AI0867> JW in particular expands to "Jan-Willem" by default, except in wesnoth context, where it's the forum user "JW"
20140331 17:14:02< mattsc> I just assumed that vultraz was trying to tell us to keep walking
20140331 17:14:14< AI0867> heh
20140331 17:14:16< Dugi> Any idea when MdW will come?
20140331 17:14:27< vultraz> I was saying "just wondering"!
20140331 17:15:12< shadowm> This channel is full of non-native speakers, so that abuse of syntactic shortcuts may prove detrimental to communication.
20140331 17:16:03< _8680_> (It may prove detrimental to communication even with native English speakers, too.)
20140331 17:16:18< Dugi> ↑ I second that.
20140331 17:16:47< vultraz> Blegh
20140331 17:16:53< shadowm> Dugi: What's MdW?
20140331 17:17:00< vultraz> Sorry, I'm just too used to syntax shortcuts with my friends
20140331 17:17:38< Dugi> shadowm: I just wanted to show the unclarity of shortcuts. I meant Mark de Wever, that is probably Mordante.
20140331 17:18:06< vultraz> (I cannot not pronounce that as Mark the Weaver >_> )
20140331 17:18:35< shadowm> Hahaha.
20140331 17:19:14< Dugi> He weaves this game's GUI codes :D
20140331 17:19:20< shadowm> @ the demonstration, not vultraz's imagination.
20140331 17:19:25< vultraz> though I suppose if it were a short E it would be more like Mark the Weather
20140331 17:21:07< vultraz> Dugi: I thought you meant Mediawiki or something :p
20140331 17:21:56< happygrue> If I'm not mistaken, this is an action shot of "Mark the Weaver" at work:  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/000dd556_medium.jpeg/220px-000dd556_medium.jpeg
20140331 17:22:14< Dugi> If I remember correctly, he's Estonian, and as far as I know, they pronounce it as a short E, long E writes as 'ee', so he would need to be Mark de Weever.
20140331 17:22:36< AI0867> nope, he's dutch too
20140331 17:22:44< AI0867> though he's much better at german than I am
20140331 17:23:08< vultraz> Oh god, dutch. The only language where Bear is pronounced like Beer
20140331 17:23:41< _8680_> “shear”
20140331 17:24:19< _8680_> “King Lear”
20140331 17:24:34< _8680_> “fear”
20140331 17:24:54< _8680_> “hear”
20140331 17:25:04< vultraz> Bear is still pronounced bare. Not beer.
20140331 17:25:33< AI0867> beer → bier
20140331 17:26:07 * vultraz tries to imitate Scottish accent
20140331 17:26:10< _8680_> Still, “ea” sounding like “ee” isn’t unheard-of in English.
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20140331 17:28:54< _8680_> (And, in some dialects, “bear” sounds like “bar”.)
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20140331 17:29:21< vultraz> EH and AH are totally different sounds
20140331 17:33:19< AI0867> so?
20140331 17:34:37< vultraz> How are you supposed to understand someone if they said bear with an AH sound, if you think they're talking about a bar not a bear?
20140331 17:35:00< AI0867> you've never heard people speak english in totally different dialects, have you?
20140331 17:35:21< vultraz> No, I haven't been to europe
20140331 17:35:24< mattsc> vultraz: how are you supposed to understand somebody who speaks, say, french?
20140331 17:36:59< vultraz> Google Translate
20140331 17:37:21< mattsc> speaks, not writes
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20140331 17:38:04< mattsc> The problem you just stated does not apply to written language, unless they also write ‘bear’ as ‘bar’  :)
20140331 17:39:45< shadowm> You deal with homophones by analyzing the context of the message.
20140331 17:40:21< shadowm> A bar can't attack people on its own, but a bear can.
20140331 17:41:10< shadowm> You should note that "its" and "it's" are also homophones, and the source of a very common typo amongst native speakers.
20140331 17:41:36< shadowm> Even though "it's" is just a contraction, not a pure word.
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20140331 17:42:25< vultraz> Also your and you're
20140331 17:42:32< vultraz> they're their there
20140331 17:43:36< shadowm> The tl;dr version is that your argument is so invalid, you'd already be in jail if this was a trial in criminal court.
20140331 17:44:20< mattsc> shadowm: depends on the country where the trial is held.
20140331 17:44:21< Dugi> I'll be back.
20140331 17:45:26< mattsc> Anyways, vultraz, my point was that people in different parts of the world pronounce things differently.  You just have to “learn their language”, even if it’s a variation of your own.
20140331 17:45:45< mattsc> In some cases, it takes a lot of learning, in others it does not.
20140331 17:45:51< shadowm> mattsc: My own country, of course.
20140331 17:46:06< mattsc> of course  :)
20140331 17:46:06< shadowm> By which I mean the country I would like to run, not the country I currently live in.
20140331 17:46:19< mattsc> shadowm: oh, that one.
20140331 17:47:02< mattsc> I once asked for something at an information kiosk in Dublin.  I had no idea what I was being told, hardly understood a single word.
20140331 17:47:54< vultraz> Shadowland?
20140331 17:48:01< vultraz> Sounds like a creepy theme park
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20140331 17:50:25< ancestral> vultraz: Next to Tomorrowland and Neverland?
20140331 17:50:42< ancestral> (Not sure Neverland is even a thing at Disney)
20140331 17:54:55< vultraz> Ignacioworld? :P
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20140331 18:06:50< mattsc> crimson_penguin: hi - just pointing you to the third bullet under “Other OS X specific issues” here: https://github.com/mattsc/AI-demos/wiki/Wesnoth-OS-X-Specific-Issues
20140331 18:06:52< mattsc> ;)
20140331 18:10:15< crimson_penguin> noted
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20140331 18:18:14< mattsc> Is the fact that wolves (or any unit, really) can have “green eyes” a knonw issue?  http://imagebin.org/302907
20140331 18:18:54< AI0867> hmm, that tree is a little high in the frame to be in the foreground
20140331 18:18:54< mattsc> I’m pretty sure I know what’s going on here, but I don’t follow graphics/animation issues much, so I don’t know what the status of this is
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20140331 18:19:06< mattsc> right
20140331 18:19:33< AI0867> submit a bug to the art contrib forum?
20140331 18:20:12< mattsc> well, that’s why I am asking whether it’s known, maybe everybody knows about it already and I’m just not paying attention
20140331 18:20:40< AI0867> I didn't know
20140331 18:21:02< zookeeper> well it's a bug regardless of whether anyone knows, and i'm pretty certain no one's planning on fixing that already
20140331 18:21:32< zookeeper> how to fix it is another matter entirely, i guess i'd just bluntly remove that small tree (and any other similar ones)
20140331 18:21:40< mattsc> zookeeper: okay, the second part is what I wanted to know.  I’ll report that then.
20140331 18:21:53< mattsc> yes, not knowing any better, that’s what I’d do too.
20140331 18:22:09< mattsc> Also, should I report that jerky movie problem I posted a week or so ago as a bug?  https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5ik4egkkr28cx1/WN_jerky_movement.mov
20140331 18:22:23< AI0867> yes
20140331 18:22:46< mattsc> Personally, I don’t care all that much about animations, but that one disturbs me a lot.
20140331 18:23:06< zookeeper> it can't be fixed without either 1) layering the forest below nw/ne units or 2) splitting the forests into top/bottom halves and layering both separately (a lot of work)
20140331 18:23:06< mattsc> will do then
20140331 18:24:36< mattsc> And one more:  iceiceice - should the leaderless side be reported as a bug?  Since you’re working on a solution already and it’s only been around recently, it might not be necessary (and I’m lazy)
20140331 18:25:30< mattsc> *leaderless AI side issue  (you know what I mean)  :P
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20140331 18:25:59< zookeeper> mattsc, there's actually a relevant report already: https://gna.org/bugs/?13242
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20140331 18:27:10< mattsc> zookeeper: ah, yes.  It’s pretty old, so you want me to add my image to it to revive it?
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20140331 18:27:19< zookeeper> wouldn't hurt
20140331 18:27:43< mattsc> okay - I’ll do all those things tonight sometime (probably)
20140331 18:27:44< zookeeper> i'm not sure if i want it assigned to myself anymore though :p
20140331 18:28:00< mattsc> well, feel free to change it
20140331 18:28:33< mattsc> you probably know better than I who a better person to deal with it would be
20140331 18:29:03< zookeeper> well i don't know anyone who might want to do that so i guess i'll let it be
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20140331 18:33:54< gfgtdf>  mattsc: when did you get jerky püroblems ?, ai moves/maps with for/ a special scenario ?
20140331 18:34:03< gfgtdf> ovement
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20140331 18:35:45< mattsc> gfgtdf: pretty much any time when the map is fogged for the moving side
20140331 18:36:37< gfgtdf> mattsc: on large or on small maps ? and did you have acelereated enabled ?
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20140331 18:37:22< mattsc> the large the map, the worse it gets; and it happens both with and without accelerated mode
20140331 18:37:36< mattsc> *larger
20140331 18:37:41< shadowm> mattsc: I sure hope the jerky motion example video linked in that page isn't yours.
20140331 18:37:55< mattsc> shadowm: why?
20140331 18:37:56< shadowm> Or if it's yours, it wasn't made specifically for that page.
20140331 18:38:42< gfgtdf> shadowm: which page do you rtalk about ?
20140331 18:38:44< mattsc> It is mine and it was made specifically for that.
20140331 18:38:47< shadowm> At least here, recording the screen is a lot of painful work I'd not do unless I was very interested in getting a developer's attention.
20140331 18:39:10< shadowm> gfgtdf: https://github.com/mattsc/AI-demos/wiki/Wesnoth-OS-X-Specific-Issues
20140331 18:39:22< mattsc> shadowm: if you have quicktime viewer on a Mac, recording that is actually very quick and easy.
20140331 18:39:30< shadowm> mattsc: Players probably won't look at the video.
20140331 18:39:33< mattsc> But yes, I specifically wanted to get the attention of people here
20140331 18:39:41< shadowm> Ah, okay.
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20140331 18:40:33< gfgtdf> mattsc: you used acceleration x 16 or similar at that video ?
20140331 18:41:39< shadowm> I personally have concerns that instant fog/shroud clearing during movement may be very taxing on the CPU on low-end systems. I guess Macs in general count as such atm since IIRC someone explained that our framebuffer (or portions thereof) has to be converted to a different format before sending to the OS X windowing system.
20140331 18:41:50< gfgtdf> mattsc: in this commit: 89192cef823417c25cce1cd2f5e83993b320da7a i made a comment about a possible cause of lags during movement on large fogged maps.
20140331 18:42:30< gfgtdf> mattsc: mabe you could test using scale instaed of scane shapr as mentioned in teh message.
20140331 18:43:09< mattsc> gfgtdf: I did test with both x4 acceleration and without.  I forgot which one this is.  But qualitatively they show the same behavior.
20140331 18:43:46< shadowm> gfgtdf: No more than 80 columns per text line in commit messages in the future, please.
20140331 18:44:40< gfgtdf> shadowm: hm ok i can try, i usualy use teh webpage to look at commits. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/89192cef823417c25cce1cd2f5e83993b320da7a
20140331 18:45:06< shadowm> That doesn't matter for embedded code samples, but for actual text it tends to look like...
20140331 18:45:09< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/less1.png
20140331 18:46:18< shadowm> gfgtdf: I know the web interface does its own line wrapping, but I'm on a slow connection and GitHub's site tends to be too heavy for it.
20140331 18:47:17< gfgtdf> shadowm: is tehre  spcialy syntax for embedded code samples ?
20140331 18:47:30< shadowm> None that I am aware of.
20140331 18:47:53< shadowm> Which is why my own commits are remarkably inconsistent with regards to those.
20140331 18:48:57< shadowm> In some I've used email quotes, in others I've used leading indentation of varying width (1, 2, 4). Perhaps _8680_ may be able to shed a light on the issue.
20140331 18:49:57< gfgtdf> shadowm: the 'code samples in commit messsages' issue ?
20140331 18:50:07< shadowm> Yes.
20140331 18:50:43< shadowm> Hm, all preferences accessors perform config class method calls, right?
20140331 18:51:14< gfgtdf> shadowm: i think yes, thats why i moves tehm out of teh loop
20140331 18:51:19< gfgtdf> moved*
20140331 18:52:58< shadowm> Yep: bool preferences::get(const std::string& key, bool def) { return prefs[key].to_bool(def); }
20140331 18:53:56< shadowm> So that's a config attribute table lookup and then some additional overhead from the runtime casts involved in the whole sequence.
20140331 18:54:21< AI0867> iceiceice: https://github.com/cbeck88/wesnoth-old/commit/e195efe9fbb716bde85d66b58cec4b98cb6faa5f#diff-1 <-- what is this about?
20140331 18:54:37< shadowm> The attribute table is a std::map.
20140331 18:56:00< _8680_> I format commit messages as pseudo-Markdown (using most Markdown syntax except brackets around link text, and ignoring some inconsistencies in actual Markdown’s list syntax), so I intent blocks of code with one tab or four spaces (preferably the latter, for consistent display, esp. given that Git might indent the whole message body with spaces).
20140331 18:56:00< shadowm> Which is O(log(n)) apparently.
20140331 18:56:08< _8680_> But there’s no standard as far as I’m aware.
20140331 18:56:26< shadowm> _8680_: Markdown feels like a joke to me given how many different flavors there are.
20140331 18:58:25< gfgtdf> shadowm: i just used a profiler to know that this slown down the get_minimap function.
20140331 18:59:09< _8680_> I don’t see that commit messages would need to subscribe to any one flavor; I just find it a convenient “common denominator” of lightweight markup languages.
20140331 18:59:38< shadowm> I wonder what other performance-sensitive code in Wesnoth is abusing config and other non-constant access time containers at the moment.
20140331 19:00:36< shadowm> gfgtdf: By the way, you could have used const there -- the surrounding code seems to be a good constness-aware citizen.
20140331 19:01:05< gfgtdf> shadowm: ye
20140331 19:01:33< _8680_> And, excepting the aforementioned inconsistencies, I find it the clearest and most natural lightweight markup language I’ve used, albeit not an especially featureful one.
20140331 19:02:00< shadowm> _8680_: Right.
20140331 19:07:47< adityapande> Build: Debug in wesnoth (compiler: GNU GCC Compiler)---------------  swig -c++ -lua -I..\..\src -I..\..\src\sdl_ttf -I..\..\src\serialization -I..\..\src\widgets -IB:\sdk_root\include_tdm_gcc -o B:\wesnoth-1.10.7\wesnoth-1.10.7\src/animated.cpp B:\wesnoth-1.10.7\wesnoth-1.10.7\src\animated.i Execution of 'swig -c++ -lua -I..\..\src -I..\..\src\sdl_ttf -I..\..\src\serialization -I..\..\src\widgets -IB:\sdk_root\include_tdm_g
20140331 19:07:55< adityapande> while compiling in codeblocks
20140331 19:08:31< _8680_> (A counter-example would be reStructuredText, with its “`link text`_” link syntax (I find having low-lines at the beginnings or ends of things to look a bit ugly and hacky), its paamayim nekudotayim, and its “explicit markup syntax” (used for such common things as link targets) evocative of RUNOFF.)
20140331 19:08:44< shadowm> adityapande: You might want to prefer usiing pastebin for pastes -- your message is cut off due to the IRC line length limit.
20140331 19:09:34< adityapande> ohh
20140331 19:09:45< _8680_> (…“paamayim nekudotayims”? I don’t know how to pluralize what I assume to be an already plural Hebrew phrase.)
20140331 19:09:53< shadowm> If you have any control over the CB project you generated, exclude animated.i (and other *.i, *.ii, and *.tpp) files from build.
20140331 19:10:32< adityapande> http://pastebin.com/sEr1N0hb
20140331 19:11:31< shadowm> They are #include'd by other code and should not be compiled stand-alone. The tool you used to generate the project probably mistook those files for something that needs special handling.
20140331 19:12:51< adityapande> so how should i go about it?
20140331 19:13:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140331 19:15:05< mattsc> gfgtdf, shadowm, all: I just re-did a few tests using the first scenario of HttT (with fog turned on).  It happens whether I’m in accelerated mode or not; and whether I’m in full-screen mode or not (tested that since there’s a difference for color cursors between those two cases)
20140331 19:16:06< mattsc> If it were just “stop and go” motion that would be bad enough but maybe borderline tolerable, but this jumping back and forth the units do is really horrible.
20140331 19:16:07< shadowm> adityapande: You can exclude the aforementioned files from build in CB, right?
20140331 19:16:18< adityapande> yes i will try that
20140331 19:16:51< gfgtdf> mattsc: hmy my issue was more realted to verylarge maps i think, maybe you could use a profiler do find out what casuses that ?
20140331 19:17:14< mattsc> gfgtdf: maybe I should, but I really won’t have time to do that anytime soon
20140331 19:17:52< mattsc> Also, there’s some issue with using the Xcode profiler that I’d have to solve first, and I really don’t have time for that.  :P
20140331 19:18:07< gfgtdf> mattsc: do you have a slow pc ?
20140331 19:18:21< gfgtdf> or build in debugs mode ?
20140331 19:18:39< mattsc> It’s not superfast any more, but not all that slow (~2yr old Macbook Pro)
20140331 19:19:04< mattsc> yes, this is with debug builds.  Let me try a release build quickly.  Hadn’t thought of that.
20140331 19:20:07< mattsc> gfgtdf: also see shadowm’s comment up there about all Mac having to be considered slow in this context
20140331 19:21:15< gfgtdf> mattsc: have you tried replacing scale_surface_sharp with scale_surface like i meantioned ealier ?
20140331 19:22:15< mattsc> gfgtdf: no, I have not.  See my comment about not having time right now.
20140331 19:22:35< gfgtdf> i thought you just dont have time to use profiler
20140331 19:22:37< mattsc> gfgtdf: yes, happens for release builds also
20140331 19:22:53< mattsc> gfgtdf: I don’t even have time to spend on irc right now  ;)
20140331 19:23:04< shadowm> Debug builds are incredibly slow and jittery nowadays even with my desktop.
20140331 19:23:04< gfgtdf> but you do :)
20140331 19:23:07< mattsc> I’ll try that later sometime.
20140331 19:24:13< mattsc> shadowm: well, my last release build (1.11.12) isn’t any better, or at least not perceptibly
20140331 19:24:34< gfgtdf> shadowm: it woudl still be nice to have mayne a movemtn with skipped animations rather than a movement like in mattsc's vid
20140331 19:24:49< mattsc> So let me throw a question out there: I can understand slow system and the motion being slow and stop and go ...
20140331 19:24:55< mattsc> right, I was just going to ask that
20140331 19:25:03< mattsc> So what would be causing that?
20140331 19:25:11< shadowm> gfgtdf: Oh, I haven't seen the video yet. Slow busy connection here. :p
20140331 19:25:58< mattsc> shadowm: sorry, yeah, I did spend the time on figuring out how to screengrab a video like that, but not how to make the file size small.  :(
20140331 19:26:30< shadowm> I haven't even checked the file size, but it's a video, I know what to expect.
20140331 19:26:43< mattsc> I think it’s about 4MB
20140331 19:27:07< shadowm> There aren't many alternatives if you don't reduce the capture area, use a more aggressive lossy compression strategy, etc.
20140331 19:27:10< mattsc> I did make it as short as possible and restricted to the part of the map I wanted to show.
20140331 19:27:29< Coffee_irc> you trying to make a video of a small area?
20140331 19:27:35< mattsc> Well, did do the former, and the quality is pretty lousy ...
20140331 19:27:46< Coffee_irc> istanbul will do it for an area
20140331 19:27:47< mattsc> Coffee_irc: I did (do, not try)
20140331 19:27:54< gfgtdf> mattsc: and teh problem does also exist on non fogged/shrouded maps?
20140331 19:28:14< mattsc> gfgtdf: nope - or at least it’s reduced to the point of not really being noticeable
20140331 19:28:15< Coffee_irc> istanbul with a dedicated window area works well regardless of settings
20140331 19:28:35< mattsc> Coffee_irc: QuickTime worked just fine for me.
20140331 19:28:37< shadowm> Isn't istanbul a Linux/X11 thing?
20140331 19:28:47< Coffee_irc> shadowm: yeah
20140331 19:28:54< shadowm> mattsc doesn't use Linux.
20140331 19:29:00< gfgtdf> i remember the first time i tried to capture a screen video, i tried to write my own programm for that and had file sized >4gb very fast :)
20140331 19:29:01< Coffee_irc> oh ok
20140331 19:29:13< shadowm> Which is kind of the focus of the whole conversation. :p
20140331 19:29:16< mattsc> (not at the moent, at least)
20140331 19:29:25< Coffee_irc> I just got up :)
20140331 19:29:37< Coffee_irc> feel free to carry on :P
20140331 19:30:30< mattsc> gfgtdf: without fog, there’s still a little pit of a stopping at each hex thing, but that jumping back and forth clearly does not happen.
20140331 19:30:38< mattsc> *bit
20140331 19:30:44< Coffee_irc> mattsc: it could be slow if the recorder is using the gpu screen as a series of screenshots to make a recording
20140331 19:31:01< Coffee_irc> otherwise it would show a black screen where the SDL layers are
20140331 19:31:13< shadowm> mattsc: Oh yeah, that's an amazing bug, I just saw the vid.
20140331 19:31:34< mattsc> Coffee_irc: I see this behavior independent of whether I record or not
20140331 19:33:11< Coffee_irc> mattsc: probably a double buffering issue then
20140331 19:33:34< shadowm> "where the SDL layers are" -- there is only one system-facing framebuffer.
20140331 19:33:38< Coffee_irc> the movement is done currently by hiding the original unit frame and using a fake unit for the path , then moving the original unit and unhiding
20140331 19:33:56< shadowm> All other surfaces are offscreen and in system RAM.
20140331 19:34:02< Coffee_irc> this is supposed to be double buffered at the moment
20140331 19:34:09< Coffee_irc> according to the code...
20140331 19:35:14< Coffee_irc> double buffering can be a PITA to troubleshoot over several different devies sometimes
20140331 19:35:19< Coffee_irc> *devices
20140331 19:35:22< shadowm> Well, apparently we do use a hardware framebuffer on X11, just not on Windows and OS X.
20140331 19:35:28< mattsc> I just did one more test and turned off all the animations in the preferences.  The jumping back and forth goes away with that, but the motion is still quite jerky.
20140331 19:36:06< shadowm> (See the get_flags() function in src/video.cpp.)
20140331 19:36:47< mattsc> Anyways, everybody, I really do need to spend some time on (more or less) real world stuff now.  I’ll stay online, but can’t follow along the discussion for the time being.  Will read up on it later.
20140331 19:37:25< gfgtdf> mattsc: how can you skip moving animation durign your own turn ?
20140331 19:38:04< Coffee_irc> for the record I changed something regarding skipped animations and AI moves
20140331 19:38:04< mattsc> gfgtdf: I turned off all animations that can be turned off in the preferences (is what I meant)
20140331 19:38:41< Coffee_irc> I turned off the inbetween graphic for skip AI moves in a recent commit on 1.11.12 to solve a similar issue (just for skip AI moves)
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20140331 19:41:23< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I disabled the flag for linux and it works smoothly here still
20140331 19:41:56< Coffee_irc> I have a mac laptop I can take from work over a weekend to test if it is a mac issue
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20140331 19:42:58< iceiceice> sorry folks, i went afk... catching up now
20140331 19:43:07< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Why would you disable the flag for Linux?
20140331 19:43:24< Coffee_irc> because it is not enabled on OSX or windows
20140331 19:43:31< Coffee_irc> as a test
20140331 19:43:48< shadowm> It's smooth here when not busy doing disk I/O to load images and I haven't disabled the flag.
20140331 19:43:55< iceiceice> mattsc: i guess you could report it as a bug if you want? tbh although i had some ideas about what to do im not sure if they are actually any better than the previous ideas... it would make more sense to have several credible people get together and agree on some particular plan
20140331 19:44:25< Coffee_irc> it needs to be reproduceable to be worked on
20140331 19:44:27< shadowm> I'm even running with a window manager using GL for composition.
20140331 19:44:34< iceiceice> mattsc: AI writes: "Properly define some loss conditions and implement those, rather than continuing to depend on whatever decisions were made in the past to hack in features that weren't quite compatible with the previous architecture."
20140331 19:45:39< iceiceice> so i think figuring out the appropriate thing there is what needs to be done, i can take a stab at it, but it will take some work and could easily cause obscure problems if not done properly
20140331 19:45:45< shadowm> Coffee_irc: You can't reasonably expect SDL to behave the same on Linux and OS X, they use completely different pipelines for window and display management.
20140331 19:46:04< Coffee_irc> shadowm: this is why I say I can source a mac laptop for testing
20140331 19:46:33< Coffee_irc> but at the moment I can't reproduce the issue
20140331 19:46:51< shadowm> Oh, you said that. Yes, I doubt you'll be able to reproduce it without OS X.
20140331 19:46:54< iceiceice> AI0867: not sure i understand the question
20140331 19:47:20< iceiceice> the purpose of the commit is to include the test scenarios in data/test/ within the "test" context
20140331 19:47:27< iceiceice> because previously they were commented out and not included
20140331 19:47:41< iceiceice> i also add some dummy tests there
20140331 19:48:03< iceiceice> if i didn't alter the _main.cfg files, then you wouldn't be able to run the tests with e.g. "./wesnoth -t unit_test_1
20140331 19:48:04< iceiceice> "
20140331 19:48:46< shadowm> Unit movements with my -O3 build on Windows seem sluggish but they don't do the back and forth thing here. Bear in mind that this is on VirtualBox -- some extra overhead for display rendering is to be expected.
20140331 19:49:21< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I think it is related to the skip AI bug I worked around recently
20140331 19:49:22< shadowm> That said, I vaguely remember seeing the back and forth skipping on Linux ages ago on a single-core system when under extreme load.
20140331 19:49:40< Coffee_irc> to do with the implementation of the unit moving part of the code
20140331 19:49:55< Coffee_irc> I can reproduce the back and forth under different circumstances
20140331 19:50:56< Coffee_irc> maybe we just need to wait for the screen buffer to be ready to show and we are getting some dirty rendering
20140331 19:51:43< Coffee_irc> currently the part that makes an area "dirty" when moving I think is suspect for the fake unit movements in-between hexes
20140331 19:52:26< AI0867> iceiceice: that particular file, where 2 includes are commented out
20140331 19:52:34< Coffee_irc> this might go away just by moving to SDL 2.0
20140331 19:52:39< adityapande> shadowm: excluding the .i files did remove the error but i have run into a new error...http://pastebin.com/YiZ1S4FH
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20140331 19:52:45< iceiceice> iceiceice: the file where the two includes were commented out was not previously included
20140331 19:53:02< iceiceice> i think the include pipeline used to work differently before data/test/ was disabled basically
20140331 19:53:25< iceiceice> when i didnt have those commented out my std::out got spammed with duplicate include messages
20140331 19:53:25< shadowm> adityapande: Also from linking.
20140331 19:53:52< adityapande> ok i ll try :)
20140331 19:54:29< shadowm> animated.i is included by animated_game.cpp. animated_game.cpp is compiled into animated_game.o, including the contents of animated.i, hence no need for linking animated.o.
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20140331 19:56:00< Coffee_irc> so is one common thing with jerky unit movments is that fog/shroud is turned on?
20140331 19:56:22< iceiceice> s/iceiceice/AI0867 ><
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20140331 19:57:14< AI0867> I'll see if I can merge that soon
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20140331 19:57:57< shadowm> While the SDL 2.0 move sounds promising and all, keep in mind that 1.12 (using SDL 1.2) will be the primary supported series for at least a year (or two).
20140331 19:57:59< Coffee_irc> I'm thinking that cpulimit might be able to show the issue more clearly without hardware rendering
20140331 19:59:12< shadowm> (I expect three years.)
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20140331 20:08:10< Coffee_irc> ok :)
20140331 20:08:18< Coffee_irc> I can reproduce the issue on linux
20140331 20:08:31< Coffee_irc> just with cpulimit -2 ./wesnoth
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20140331 20:09:01< Coffee_irc> this is loading from a SSD
20140331 20:09:17< adityapande> shadowm: animated.i is already excluded from linking and compiling.
20140331 20:09:40< shadowm> adityapande: No, it isn't, hence the error you get.
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20140331 20:10:06< adityapande> i checked 
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20140331 20:10:33< adityapande> it is not linked in others\source\an
20140331 20:10:33< shadowm> The linker's command line includes animated.o, otherwise it wouldn't be trying to read the file and fail with "No such file or directory" in the first place.
20140331 20:10:41< adityapande> it is not linked in others\source\animated.i
20140331 20:10:42< Coffee_irc> mattsc: can you file a bug report
20140331 20:11:13< adityapande> so how to exclude it from linking?
20140331 20:11:38< shadowm> adityapande: I believe you can remove files from the project in CodeBlocks?
20140331 20:11:39-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20140331 20:12:16< adityapande> should i remove the animated.i file then?
20140331 20:12:55< shadowm> adityapande: Right click on the file, check Properties -> Build.
20140331 20:13:06< adityapande> k
20140331 20:13:26< shadowm> Are both "Compile file" and "Link file" unchecked?
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20140331 20:15:52< mattsc> Coffee_irc: will do, but probably not until tomorrow
20140331 20:16:06< adityapande> http://imagebin.org/302928
20140331 20:16:12< adityapande> yes they are unchecked
20140331 20:16:54< shadowm> Perhaps you need to rebuild.
20140331 20:17:01< adityapande> ok
20140331 20:17:14< adityapande> i ll try that :)
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20140331 20:17:39< mattsc> iceiceice: okay - as I have said before, do whatever you decide is the best thing for Wesnoth as a whole.  If that means I need to change my scenario code slightly that’s fine by me, as long as leaderless AI vs. AI scenarios still work in general.
20140331 20:17:57< shadowm> adityapande: Oh, also, the third tab.
20140331 20:18:09< adityapande> yes
20140331 20:18:10< adityapande> ?
20140331 20:18:31 * mattsc disappears again
20140331 20:18:35< adityapande> i have started the rebuild
20140331 20:18:54< shadowm> The "use custom command to build this file" option should be unchecked too.
20140331 20:19:04< adityapande> ohh
20140331 20:19:28< adityapande> it was unchecked
20140331 20:19:45< shadowm> Then it should remain unchecked.
20140331 20:19:56< adityapande> ok
20140331 20:21:01< shadowm> _8680_: You know some Git on Windows stuff. Is there an equivalent to git-new-workdir for Windows?
20140331 20:22:08< shadowm> I found a batch file that uses MKLINK, but I can't figure out how to make it work -- I keep getting permission errors even after granting my user account symlink creation rights.
20140331 20:22:28< shadowm> And even after giving it full ownership of the parent directory (C:\src).
20140331 20:22:40-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140331 20:23:48< shadowm> Mingw's ln also hits a Permission denied error and proceeds to do what appears to be a plain copy of the symlink target.
20140331 20:24:21< shadowm> Or it actually does the plain copy first and then hits the error, not sure.
20140331 20:24:37< shadowm> `ln -s src/ foo` gives me a foo subdir containing just a few files. :|
20140331 20:25:31< shadowm> ... Do I even own C:\src\wesnoth? How do I tell?
20140331 20:25:56< shadowm> I thought giving my account full rights to C:\src would suffice, but suddenly I'm not so sure.
20140331 20:26:57< mattsc> Coffee_irc: oh, btw, I have an SSD in my laptop as well, so I doubt that disk I/O is the problem
20140331 20:28:02< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/src-ac.png
20140331 20:28:19< shadowm> I'm member of Administrators too.
20140331 20:38:10< _8680_> shadowm: Me? All I know about Git on Windows is that it can’t fetch from repositories that contain branches with 251-character-long names.
20140331 20:38:33< shadowm> _8680_: You've always helped vultraz with all kinds of Git on Windows issues. :|
20140331 20:39:01< _8680_> I’ve helped him with Git issues, not specific to Windows.
20140331 20:39:25< shadowm> GRRRR.
20140331 20:39:47< _8680_> (Other than the branch name incident, and I only resolved that by deleting the branch from the upstream repository.)
20140331 20:44:00< adityapande> shadowm: now it gives http://pastebin.com/YymxRUUa error?
20140331 20:45:54< shadowm> adityapande: Try disabling the checkboxes under "Belongs in targets" in the file's Properties -> Build tab.
20140331 20:46:08< shadowm> If that doesn't work either, try just removing it from the project.
20140331 20:46:32< adityapande> what about the dependencies?
20140331 20:46:43< shadowm> What about them?
20140331 20:46:56< adityapande> can we simply remove anything?
20140331 20:47:14< shadowm> Removing the file from the project shouldn't delete it from disk, I believe.
20140331 20:47:49< shadowm> As long as it continues to exist, the #include in animated_game.cpp should continue to work correctly, which is all for which animated.i is used.
20140331 20:48:07< adityapande> ohh
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20140331 21:07:27< Coffee_irc> mattsc: FYI I can reproduce the issue with cpulimit and can take a look at it (maybe also jamit) this weekend
20140331 21:11:28-!- timotei__ is now known as timotei_
20140331 21:13:04< timotei_> shadowm: It doesn't matter if you're member of admins. For mklink to work, at least from Vista on you need to execute that command "as administrator" (yeah...it's stupid)
20140331 21:13:17< timotei_> Or from a Command prompt with administrative "privileges"
20140331 21:13:35< timotei_> (Btw, do you use W7 or W8?)
20140331 21:13:37< shadowm> timotei_: Even after giving my user symlink creation privileges?
20140331 21:13:52-!- TC01 [~quassel@128.220.109.252] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140331 21:13:52< shadowm> ... It's pretty obvious from the screenshot that I'm not using Windows 7.
20140331 21:14:17< timotei_> (Didn't look over all the conversation btw :P)
20140331 21:14:44< timotei_> So yeah, on W8 you *definitely* need to run a command prompt as admin before doing mklink. Whatever you do/give in terms of permissions.
20140331 21:14:52< timotei_> It's "by design" like that.
20140331 21:14:57< shadowm> Why.
20140331 21:15:02< timotei_> "it
20140331 21:15:04< shadowm> What's the permission for then?
20140331 21:15:05< timotei_> 's a feature"
20140331 21:15:12< timotei_> When you execute... stuff from explorer.
20140331 21:15:30< shadowm> Both Windows Explorer and cmd.exe are Windows applications, why the difference then?
20140331 21:15:39< timotei_> I don't know, sorry.
20140331 21:16:04< adityapande> shadowm: thank you. I finally succeeded in my first step :)
20140331 21:16:07< timotei_> Also
20140331 21:16:17< adityapande> Hope I didn't trouble you much
20140331 21:16:46< shadowm> adityapande: Not at all. :)
20140331 21:16:49< timotei_> That is only a problem on W8, only W7 is was less of a headache with this permissions stuff.
20140331 21:16:57< shadowm> timotei_: Yeah, running the script as administrator works. :|
20140331 21:16:58< timotei_> s/is/
20140331 21:17:08< timotei_> Yup. Even if you *are* an admin. I feel you.
20140331 21:17:08-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140331 21:17:24< timotei_> It's part of the new "modern UI" (ex-Metro) stuff... 
20140331 21:17:27< shadowm> Is there some kind of security-related rationale for this BS?
20140331 21:17:29< adityapande> now i can start with more fun parts than installing and compiling :p
20140331 21:17:38< shadowm> Wait, what have symlinks to do with the modern UI framework?
20140331 21:18:26< timotei_> Modern UI -> app sandboxing -> new security "features" (no-UAC doesn't mean no-UAC anymore) -> stuff as side effects.
20140331 21:18:41< timotei_> On windows 7 for example, if you were admin you could open a normal cmd and execute that.
20140331 21:18:44< timotei_> Not on W8 anymore!
20140331 21:19:40< shadowm> Wouldn't the sane thing to do be to just stop creating members of Administrators by default?
20140331 21:19:46-!- TC01 [~quassel@128.220.109.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140331 21:20:03< timotei_> Also, that symlink stuff is controlled by a policy in secpol.msc not by right-click, properties, security.
20140331 21:20:25< shadowm> Even better, drop the Administrators group, have a single user with Administrator privileges.
20140331 21:20:41< timotei_> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15320550/secreatesymboliclinkprivilege-ignored-on-windows-8
20140331 21:20:45< timotei_> ^-^
20140331 21:21:10< shadowm> With all the crap they broke this time, I'd figure this was the best opportunity they ever had to completely rework how access control works.
20140331 21:21:21< shadowm> timotei_: I did go to secpol.msc to give myself that permission.
20140331 21:21:35< timotei_> Hmm
20140331 21:21:50< shadowm> Perhaps I needed to logout and login again?
20140331 21:22:01< timotei_> Well, yeah, that was poster's initial question :P
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20140331 21:22:14< timotei_> ~Apparently if the user is in the administrator's group they have to Run as Administrator to use MKLINK. If you remove the user from Administrators apparently all the above works. ~
20140331 21:22:23< timotei_> Stupid workarounds
20140331 21:22:30< timotei_> I always use "run as admin" when I wanna do stuff
20140331 21:22:38< timotei_> So, use whatever works for you.
20140331 21:22:40< iceiceice> why are they rethinking all of this
20140331 21:22:44< shadowm> I use Linux.
20140331 21:22:54< shadowm> It works perfectly fine for my needs.
20140331 21:22:55< iceiceice> who could possibly have thought any of this was a good idea
20140331 21:23:06< shadowm> Also: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/symlinks.png
20140331 21:23:44< shadowm> Let's see if whatever APIs hide behind mingw can deal with symlinks on Windows correctly...
20140331 21:24:08< shadowm> No.
20140331 21:24:26< shadowm> They look like plain files and directories in ls -l.
20140331 21:25:00< timotei_> I haven't had really any problems using symlinks btw, and I use them a lot.
20140331 21:25:11< shadowm> cmd.exe has the right idea, though: http://pastebin.com/KRcqXVnB
20140331 21:26:09< shadowm> Let's see how this all works in the long term so I can start recommending it to the people here using Windows.
20140331 21:26:45< shadowm> For example, how much breakage should I expect from running git pull in the wesnoth-1.12 slave?
20140331 21:27:32< shadowm> It seems to work.
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20140331 21:29:56< shadowm> Yep: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/screenshots/blah.png
20140331 21:31:09< shadowm> Wait.
20140331 21:31:18< shadowm> wtf is with the timezone?
20140331 21:31:58< shadowm> GAH I hate my country. >.<
20140331 21:33:36< shadowm> Why aren't timezone definition updates offered through Windows Update?
20140331 21:33:41< shadowm> timotei_: 
20140331 21:45:20< timotei_> Timezone definition update???
20140331 21:45:27< timotei_> Are you talking about things like.. DST?
20140331 21:45:34< shadowm> Yes.
20140331 21:46:07< timotei_> Click the clock -> "Change date and time settings" -> "Internet time" tab -> "Change synchronize" -> "Update now"
20140331 21:46:14-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@d230220.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140331 21:46:36< shadowm> 1) The clock is synchronized from the host by VirtualBox.
20140331 21:46:53< shadowm> 2) The timezone definition is independent from the current time.
20140331 21:47:46< shadowm> You can have your clock synchronized to the nanosecond and still have the wrong time because the TZ offset or DST configuration are wrong.
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20140331 21:49:40< shadowm> I read weeks ago that (for the fourth consecutive year) Microsoft had provided a patch for the new timezone definition for Chile addressing this year's DST amendment, but I expected to see it in Windows Update.
20140331 21:50:00< shadowm> But none of the non-security fixes I have listed here are related.
20140331 21:50:16< shadowm> So I guess I have to go and install it manually? What the hell?
20140331 21:51:03-!- adityapande [ca4eaca2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.78.172.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
20140331 21:51:34< loonycyborg> How often does Chile amend its DST? :P
20140331 21:51:53-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20140331 21:51:58< shadowm> Every year.
20140331 21:52:41< loonycyborg> Russia recently abolished its DST
20140331 21:52:44< loonycyborg> good riddance
20140331 21:52:50< shadowm> Someone rightly assumed last year that they'd do it again this year, so tzdata (used by Debian) didn't need to be updated at the last minute like in past occasions.
20140331 21:54:27< shadowm> Since the new left-wing government is busy undoing every single thing done by the previous government, I expect this situation won't happen next year for a change.
20140331 21:57:15< shadowm> Plus this is expected to be a rainy year.
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20140331 22:10:48< happygrue> we can all switch over to 24 hour fixed clock and get used to different hours the same time the rest of the world finally hitches up to the metric system.
20140331 22:11:05< happygrue> and by the rest of the world, I mean us.  :(
20140331 22:15:14< timotei_> Guys, most important thing today-ish is to remember not to fall to traps of 1st April! :D
20140331 22:19:19< AI0867> happygrue: yes, switching everyone to UTC is something I've suggested before
20140331 22:20:22< iceiceice> quick question: how do options work for modifications?
20140331 22:20:48< iceiceice> can their values be made persistent for next time the mod is used by usual wml means, or is there no mechanism for that
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20140331 23:12:43< mattsc> Coffee_irc: great!
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 01 00:00:27 2014