--- Log opened Tue Apr 01 00:00:27 2014
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20140401 00:05:35< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 5bc1a5fd72ff / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (ca_messenger_attack.lua ca_messenger_f_next_waypoint.lua ca_messenger_move.lua): Messenger MAI: store waypoint in messenger unit, not self.data http://git.io/O2D3vw
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20140401 01:16:15< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master d42afd970a35 / src/serialization/ (string_utils.hpp unicode.hpp): Move a function back to string_utils.hpp http://git.io/8r4Fcw
20140401 01:16:17< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 7e128d09e06d / src/serialization/unicode.hpp: Restore some commented-out code http://git.io/_X9snA
20140401 01:16:19< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 9d0a05cadc33 / src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Rename utils::trancate_as_ucs4string to utf8::truncate_as_ucs4 http://git.io/lO_kBg
20140401 01:16:21< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master ea8a3bbcd970 / src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Further reorganise unicode.hpp http://git.io/h9nmJw
20140401 01:16:23< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 116c6a6e9780 / data/ai/micro_ais/ (13 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/VhwW0g
20140401 01:18:55< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master d69d4e9858fe / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_goto.lua: Goto MAI: store whether unit is released in the unit, not self.data http://git.io/WDiZGQ
20140401 01:20:12< AI0867> gah, typos in commit messages
20140401 01:23:11< vultraz> I certain raymond would have a fit
20140401 01:23:20< vultraz> s/I/A
20140401 01:26:25< gfgtdf> i can't find typos in messages.
20140401 01:31:24< AI0867> trancate
20140401 01:31:52< vultraz> reorganise 
20140401 01:35:09< mattsc> what did I do?
20140401 01:36:57< mattsc> Oh …   You’re also using British spelling  ;)
20140401 01:37:51< shadowm> vultraz: That's not a typo.
20140401 01:38:23< vultraz> Blegh
20140401 01:38:47< shadowm> I thought you liked British stuff, vultraz.
20140401 01:39:23< gfgtdf> AI0867: i didnt look at this becasue i normaly copy from code in those situations.
20140401 01:40:06< mattsc> (sorry, I’m just way behind everybody here; I’ll shut up again)
20140401 01:40:17< vultraz> shadowm: I like British stuff, but not the spelling
20140401 01:40:44< vultraz> I consider British spelling to be unnecessary letters
20140401 01:40:49< shadowm> Sorry, but British English comes with the full set of British stuff.
20140401 01:41:04< shadowm> It's not a negotiable deal.
20140401 01:41:50< _8680_> “s” is no longer than “z”.
20140401 01:42:41< vultraz> No, but a Z makes more sense
20140401 01:42:49< shadowm> If you are in need of a slightly less British set of stuff, you may want to try Australia. (Not Canada, though, because they also have French stuff.)
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20140401 01:46:18< mattsc> Well, besides the French, Canada comes with the British spelling and besides that a mix of British and American everything else - so that sounds like a worse deal for vultraz.
20140401 01:47:00< mattsc> vultraz: not as an argument but just out of curiosity, how does a zed make more sense?
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20140401 01:49:18< shadowm> I think vultraz would call it 'zi'.
20140401 01:49:51< mattsc> shadowm: I know - I was teasing …  :)
20140401 01:50:25< shadowm> Evidently my purpose in life is to ruin every joke in front of me.
20140401 01:52:21< mattsc> shadowm: hehe, no problem.  In part I am throwing things like that out there to see who bites.  ;)
20140401 01:53:10< mattsc> … but I have spent a significant amount of years on either side of the US/Canada border, so I’ve had my exposure to either system.
20140401 01:54:06< mattsc> (and as you know, I’ve even spent quite some time in Chile, although I’ve never lived there)
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20140401 01:56:17< mattsc> Now, does anybody know whether I can delete the AI’s self.data variable content when it is not that side’s turn?
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20140401 02:07:07< mattsc> shadowm: is it April where you are already ?!?
20140401 02:08:48< mattsc> oops - now I did it.  :P  (not many people read this though…)
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20140401 02:28:19< vultraz> mattsc: zed? i know it as a si
20140401 02:28:21< vultraz> zi*
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20140401 02:39:57< irker446> wesnoth: 8573 wesnoth:master 1c28c514a95b / src/ (tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Add `bit_width` functions http://git.io/7Q-Qfg
20140401 02:39:59< irker446> wesnoth: 8573 wesnoth:master 231320183770 / src/util.hpp: Have `bit_width(x)` take `x` by reference. http://git.io/kzerzw
20140401 02:40:01< irker446> wesnoth: 8573 wesnoth:master 23fddb0e93da / src/ (tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Add `count_ones` function http://git.io/FKctHQ
20140401 02:40:03< irker446> wesnoth: 8573 wesnoth:master 97d24001eba8 / src/ (tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Add `count_leading_zeros` function http://git.io/UtKWeQ
20140401 02:40:05< irker446> wesnoth: 8573 wesnoth:master 36e3da74ebd0 / src/ (tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Add `count_leading_ones` function https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/36e3da74ebd09c7d07e5e524fd1d75ac0095db41
20140401 02:40:07< irker446> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master 188c7c338619 / src/ (tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Merge branch '8573/util/count-leading-ones/1' of https://github.com/8680-wesnoth http://git.io/0kBbRQ
20140401 02:40:09< irker446> wesnoth: aquileia wesnoth:master 8e2edc82a0df / src/serialization/string_utils.cpp: Improve byte_size_from_utf8_first() http://git.io/fJcJmQ
20140401 02:40:11< irker446> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 66058c10efbc / src/ (serialization/unicode.cpp tests/test_util.cpp util.hpp): Merge branch 'codepoint_count' (PR #128) from aquileia/wesnoth-old http://git.io/PStoTA
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20140401 02:49:54< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 6d5d61bb01ac / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_goto.lua: Goto MAI: store whether unit is released in the unit, not self.data http://git.io/Nt5dWw
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20140401 03:04:39< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 6bd3bae330fc / data/ai/micro_ais/ (cas/ca_protect_unit_move.lua micro_ai_unit_variables.lua): Fix typos in comments http://git.io/faxPGg
20140401 03:04:41< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 6cfe5fa35197 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_self_data.lua: MAIs: add utility functions for storing information in AI's self.data http://git.io/Nr2v6A
20140401 03:04:43< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 73a11634f77a / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Micro AIs: check for existence of [micro_ai] tags in self.data when... http://git.io/o__MMA
20140401 03:04:45< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 1dfd79c3a5ed / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (ca_bottleneck_move.lua ca_goto.lua ca_hang_out.lua): Micro AIs: use the new functions for storing information in self.data http://git.io/QW2p7Q
20140401 03:08:48< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 b021209f7734 / data/ai/micro_ais/ (cas/ca_protect_unit_move.lua micro_ai_unit_variables.lua): Fix typos in comments http://git.io/x2GJHA
20140401 03:08:49< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 58ddf407e8b0 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_self_data.lua: MAIs: add utility functions for storing information in AI's self.data http://git.io/G-aDsw
20140401 03:08:51< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 578b452d32c3 / data/ai/micro_ais/micro_ai_helper.lua: Micro AIs: check for existence of [micro_ai] tags in self.data when... http://git.io/nEhg9w
20140401 03:08:53< irker446> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 907bca7ad552 / data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ (ca_bottleneck_move.lua ca_goto.lua ca_hang_out.lua): Micro AIs: use the new functions for storing information in self.data http://git.io/33Lh4g
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20140401 04:33:25< Sapient> hey maybe we should also offer free blocks of WesGold crypto-currency to the first people who sign up for WesGold forum accounts
20140401 04:34:19< Sapient> I've been developing the crypto-currency that can only be mined by completing scenarios of official Wesnoth campaigns
20140401 04:34:49< Sapient> This would be a perfect incentive don't you think, shadowm?
20140401 04:38:25< Sapient> Now if we just had a convincing coin graphic for that ;)
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20140401 04:47:27< shadowm> We can't have two identically-named products. They could be called Tallincoins since NR is obviously going to be the most uh... valuable campaign.
20140401 04:48:17< shadowm> It could be argued that Konrad is a more iconic character, though.
20140401 05:01:34< iceiceice> how about just Wesbucks
20140401 05:04:36< iceiceice> while we at it we could mention that we now run a currency exchange to trade Wesbucks for PonziCoins and back
20140401 05:04:56< iceiceice> we would be fools not to get involved in that gold mine anyways
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20140401 05:13:29< Ardonik> You clever bastards.
20140401 05:13:53< Ardonik> I especially like the part about allowing >1MB animated avatars.
20140401 05:26:58< iceiceice> You know, it would be great for the Wesbucks launch if we could announce that some celebrity, e.g. the Winklevoss twins, vowed to do nothing but play wesnoth campaigns for 120 consecutive hours in an effort to amass 4 billion Wesbucks.
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20140401 06:24:48< vultraz> Can we exchange Wesbucks for Gabencoins?
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20140401 06:34:19< vultraz> oh wait a minute 
20140401 06:34:25< vultraz> it's April 1st
20140401 06:34:55< vultraz> How do we know WesGold forum accounts are not the annual april fools joke by shadowm
20140401 06:36:34< iceiceice> these aren't the april fools jokes you're looking for.
20140401 06:45:04< vultraz> No, no, it definitely looks like a joke
20140401 06:49:34< vultraz> damn you shadowm!
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20140401 07:47:57< timotei_> shadowm: You put too many exclamation marks in the announcement! It ruins the authenticity!
20140401 07:49:15< vultraz> More like the fact that half these things couldn't be possible
20140401 07:49:28< vultraz> And he'd never sell unbans 
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20140401 10:22:24< adityapande> in easycoding wiki what is the explanation of "Add option to take avoided hexes into account in wesnoth.find_path()"
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20140401 10:23:36< zookeeper> it presumably means that pathfinding should (optionally?) take into account any [avoid] tags the ai has
20140401 10:24:00< zookeeper> currently the ai only avoids stopping on the [avoid]ed hexes, but will still happily walk through them
20140401 10:24:29< adityapande> are all the things listed being worked on right now?
20140401 10:24:48< zookeeper> probably not, but i wouldn't know
20140401 10:25:14< adityapande> what are [avoid] hexes. Are they the unreachable hexes
20140401 10:25:32< zookeeper> no, they're any locations that the scenario designer has told the AI to avoid for whatever reason
20140401 10:25:42< adityapande> ohh
20140401 10:26:02< adityapande> how are they marked on the map... like how to check for them>
20140401 10:26:11< zookeeper> you can grep mainline campaigns for [avoid] to see plenty of examples
20140401 10:26:26< zookeeper> they're not marked on the map, only given in the scenario file
20140401 10:26:45< adityapande> where exactly to grep?
20140401 10:26:54< adityapande> sorry i am pretty new to this 
20140401 10:27:00< zookeeper> data/campaigns/
20140401 10:27:13< adityapande> ok i shall try that
20140401 10:30:08< adityapande> there is no file/function called find_path() though
20140401 10:30:25< adityapande> i only found a pathfind.cpp
20140401 10:30:46< zookeeper> wesnoth.find_path() seems to refer to a lua function
20140401 10:31:15< zookeeper> so data/lua/wml-tags.lua
20140401 10:31:46< adityapande> ok i ll look for it
20140401 10:32:04< zookeeper> so it didn't actually have anything directly to do with AI after all
20140401 10:32:24< zookeeper> just to add such an option to that one function
20140401 10:33:51< adityapande> why is the file you mentioned seen in codeblocks?
20140401 10:34:03 * zookeeper shrugs
20140401 10:34:22< adityapande> ?
20140401 10:34:28< zookeeper> means i have no idea
20140401 10:34:42< adityapande> ohh
20140401 10:38:34< adityapande> i did find the function
20140401 10:38:41< adityapande> i may be able to edit it but
20140401 10:39:02< adityapande> how will it then reflect / how will I compile ??
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20140401 10:40:05< adityapande> my workspace currently looks like 
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20140401 10:40:29< adityapande> 303122
20140401 10:40:33< adityapande> http://imagebin.org/303122
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20140401 10:43:13< zookeeper> adityapande, you don't compile lua
20140401 10:44:07< adityapande> so how will i build after making any changes?
20140401 10:44:23< zookeeper> you don't need to build if you just change the lua code
20140401 10:44:49< adityapande> ohh
20140401 10:44:51< adityapande> thanks 
20140401 10:44:55< adityapande> that helps a lot :)
20140401 10:46:27< adityapande> just out of curiosity how are these lua files incorporated / interpreted into the game? 
20140401 10:47:07< zookeeper> i guess in layman terms the game just runs a lua interpreter on them
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20140401 10:47:46< adityapande> thanks
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20140401 11:36:37< adityapande_> how to check from where a lua function is being called? I wanted to find from where exactly find_path() is being callled..
20140401 11:38:54< Soliton> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10838961/lua-find-out-calling-function
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20140401 11:40:27< adityapande_> thanks i ll try that
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20140401 11:46:16< adityapande_> where shall the output be printed? I ran the game and I am not sure where to look for the output?
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20140401 11:49:30< adityapande_> ?
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20140401 13:40:57< mattsc> adityapande: around?
20140401 13:47:13< mattsc> zookeeper: just had a closer look at the bug report you linked yesterday: https://gna.org/bugs/?13242
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20140401 13:47:45< mattsc> That screenshot in there is actually not just related, it is exactly the same thing, with the little tree appearing in front of the shield.
20140401 13:49:36< mattsc> zookeeper: do you still want me to post anything there?  Turns out all I have is nothing new.
20140401 13:49:52< mattsc> (which isn’t surprising, that was my question in the first place yesterday)
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20140401 13:50:43< zookeeper> eh, i dunno. it's not like bug report necromancy is a bad thing, so whatever you feel like i guess
20140401 13:51:47< mattsc> zookeeper: if anybody’s actually going to start working on it if I play the necromance, I’ll do it.  Otherwise it’s a waste of time.  :P
20140401 13:52:05< zookeeper> well it can't make it less likely :p
20140401 13:52:13< mattsc> true
20140401 13:58:52< Rhonda> https://www.globalsign.com/ssl/ssl-open-source/ - this might be of interest to us.
20140401 13:59:16< Rhonda> We were discussing SSL certificates for wesnoth, and given that cacert isn't really in the trusted area, we should switch to it.
20140401 13:59:36< Rhonda> Shall I drive that?  Ivanovic, Soliton, shadowm, your opinion on it? :)
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20140401 14:01:10< adityapande> mattsc: yes
20140401 14:03:01< Rhonda> Do we have a "License URL"?
20140401 14:03:04< mattsc> adityapande: hi.  I saw your questions about the pathfinding with avoid task and have a few comments.  As zookeeper said, he doesn’t know the entire backstory and the task has also evolved a bit since it was put up there.
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20140401 14:03:41< mattsc> First, vorobeez is already working on this one (or was at least, I haven’t heard an update in a little while).  He should have marked it as such on the wiki.
20140401 14:03:42< adityapande> ok
20140401 14:04:04< adityapande> please suggest some bug fix to get me started 
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20140401 14:04:25< adityapande> i am having a hard time around these ideas right now...
20140401 14:04:39< mattsc> So, you may work on this one anyway, but ideally you would not.
20140401 14:04:45< mattsc> (sorry, I’m a bit slow here...)
20140401 14:04:55< adityapande> ?
20140401 14:05:20< mattsc> First question, do you want me to explain what this one is about anyway, or should we go on to something else?
20140401 14:05:27< Rhonda> Ah, found it.
20140401 14:06:15< adityapande> i kind of got the vague idea from zookeeper
20140401 14:06:29< mattsc> adityapande: no, what zookeeper said was wrong.  :)
20140401 14:06:31< adityapande> about the avoid moves
20140401 14:06:34< adityapande> ohh
20140401 14:06:59< mattsc> he interpreted what’s written on the wiki correctly, but there’s a lot more to it than the one sentence written there.
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20140401 14:07:11< adityapande> ohh
20140401 14:07:18< mattsc> adityapande: given how close it is to the end of the evaluation period, I think it would be best if you did something that would be directly related to your project.  Some sort of feature demonstration, rather than a bug fix.
20140401 14:07:26< zookeeper> oops.
20140401 14:07:32< adityapande> ok
20140401 14:07:45< mattsc> zookeeper: no, my oops.  I should have updated that task on the wiki.
20140401 14:08:30< mattsc> adityapande: first, you should try to get in contact with Crab_ (but I know this is hard to do sometimes)
20140401 14:08:38< adityapande> ya it is
20140401 14:08:43< adityapande> :(
20140401 14:09:24< mattsc> But pick something (anything) in the AI code, and demonstrate that you can do the sort of modifications to it that you want to do for your project.  It doesn’t matter if it is actually useful.
20140401 14:09:59< adityapande> ok
20140401 14:11:17< mattsc> One thing I saw Crab_ suggest to another student was something like this (I’m doing this from memory, so I might be off on the details, but the general idea should be right):
20140401 14:11:36< mattsc> Add some decision process and different action to the attack/combat candidate action.
20140401 14:11:59< mattsc> It could be as simple as: if it is night, we don’t attack but retreat as far away from all enemies as we can.
20140401 14:12:54< adityapande> ok
20140401 14:13:04< mattsc> This won’t result in any useful AI behavior, but that doesn’t matter.
20140401 14:13:47< mattsc> It shows that you can modify the code to add in new actions.  Figuring out what useful actions are is part of the GSoC project.
20140401 14:13:50< adityapande> shall i just make small modifications to the rca ai 
20140401 14:14:15< mattsc> yes, that would be a good start - and I think it is what Crab_ is looking for.
20140401 14:14:33< adityapande> thanks i will try that
20140401 14:15:16< adityapande> RCA is the default ai right in 1.10.7?
20140401 14:15:21< mattsc> What he was suggesting was specifically adding something to the combat CA to have it do something else than attacking.
20140401 14:15:40< mattsc> It is, yes.  You should be working with master though, which is at 1.13.0-dev
20140401 14:15:52< mattsc> But the RCA is still the default there.
20140401 14:16:13< adityapande> no it takes a long time to download ~300 mb here :(
20140401 14:17:00< sachith500> wasn't it upwards of 1 gb? the repo?
20140401 14:17:14< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, yeah the initial download of the repo is something that takes a long time, mine unpacked to 2.5GB
20140401 14:17:18< mattsc> Yeah, quite a few people have that problem (and it is actually a lot more than that, colser to 1.6gb), but for GSoC you will have to do this, there is no way around it.
20140401 14:18:04< adityapande> i ll be able to it at home but it is hard from college
20140401 14:18:13< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, updating takes a lot less time once you have repo installed
20140401 14:18:15< mattsc> adityapande: you could do your demonstration with a different version and see if you get accepted.
20140401 14:18:18< sachith500> nature of git
20140401 14:18:27< adityapande> ya i ll try that
20140401 14:18:33< sachith500> just leave it overnight
20140401 14:18:53< adityapande> the download generally breaks in between 
20140401 14:19:29< adityapande> i can always try though
20140401 14:19:31< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, you could try downloading the zip file unpacking it and then using that as your basis for updating?
20140401 14:19:53< adityapande> ok
20140401 14:20:21< Aishiko_laptop> the zip is a monolithic file though =( so it'll be huge
20140401 14:20:39< sachith500> still better than the git getting interrupted I think
20140401 14:20:53< sachith500> I remember I had this problem a few months back too
20140401 14:21:01< Aishiko_laptop> sachith500, I would agree especially if you can use wget
20140401 14:21:02< sachith500> if it got interrupted, bye bye repo
20140401 14:21:03< adityapande> what didi u do
20140401 14:21:14< adityapande> *did
20140401 14:21:18< sachith500> I used a dongle
20140401 14:21:29< sachith500> I tried it overnight like twice
20140401 14:21:43< sachith500> decided it wasn't going to work out and used that instead
20140401 14:22:07< adityapande> ohh
20140401 14:23:47< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, its too bad that someone can't take the monolithic file and cut it up into several smaller ones for you
20140401 14:25:53< mattsc> iceiceice: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21882
20140401 14:26:48< sachith500> oh btw iceiceice I sent a new PR for the cdf damage idea
20140401 14:27:11< mattsc> iceiceice: I left out details about the cause and only described the symptoms and how to reproduce it.  Feel free to add information or just leave it as is, but at least it is reported now.
20140401 14:27:46< mattsc> I’ll be back in ~30 min.
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20140401 14:38:55< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, the zip is only 422MB~
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20140401 14:53:31< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, if you're still having issues about the cloning tomorrow, I'll zip it and break it up into smaller zips so you can get several zips instead of one huge one
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20140401 14:53:42< adityapande> k thanks 
20140401 14:53:54< adityapande> i ll leave the download tonight
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20140401 14:54:04< adityapande> till then i ll work with 1.10.7 :)
20140401 14:58:10< Aishiko_laptop> actually I might have it available before I have to leave to go home
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20140401 15:02:00< happygrue_> sachith500: I haven't had time to check out your PR but the idea is nice.
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20140401 15:02:11< sachith500> hey happygrue :D
20140401 15:02:12< sachith500> yeah
20140401 15:02:19< sachith500> I thought it'd be useful
20140401 15:02:25< sachith500> I was taking a look at how the dialogs work anyway
20140401 15:02:28< happygrue> I have been and will be very busy this next week or two, so kind of around but somewhat MIA at the same time
20140401 15:02:43< sachith500> that's ok I think our idea is pretty well developed anyway
20140401 15:02:43< happygrue> baby due this Thursday, family coming today, etc. ;)
20140401 15:02:47< happygrue> yes
20140401 15:02:48< sachith500> oh
20140401 15:02:51< sachith500> congrats! :D
20140401 15:03:11< happygrue> I followed the comments and didn't have much to add, though I have been meaning to read some of the other proposals in more detail and add some feedback on each
20140401 15:03:28< sachith500> hmm
20140401 15:04:03< happygrue> and thanks.  :D
20140401 15:04:09< sachith500> quite a few for the AI project
20140401 15:04:12< sachith500> I see
20140401 15:04:19< sachith500> some are even listed under "Your Own Ideas"
20140401 15:04:40< sachith500> did you register as a mentor for our project btw?
20140401 15:05:06< happygrue> I am registered as a mentor but I haven't selected your project yet
20140401 15:05:11 * happygrue goes to do that
20140401 15:05:20< sachith500> :D
20140401 15:05:37< sachith500> I saw something on the mailing list saying something like that
20140401 15:05:47< mattsc> zookeeper: the bug tracker claims that it just sent you an email.
20140401 15:06:16< happygrue> not sure if it will end up as Soliton or me or both in the final tally, but whatever.  We also don't know for sure if they will give us all the spots, which projects will get the green light, etc.  So some things left to do yet, but I can "offer" to mentor which is the step to do now I guess :D
20140401 15:06:30< sachith500> hehe :D
20140401 15:06:50< sachith500> they probably will give around 5 or so I guess
20140401 15:06:56< sachith500> at least 4 I'm betting
20140401 15:07:23< happygrue> It also depends on who is willing to mentorwhat at the end of the day I think.
20140401 15:07:29< sachith500> oh ok
20140401 15:08:59< mattsc> zookeeper: should I ask Alarantalara whether he wants to have a look at that?  I’m in contact with him about Xcode stuff anyway.
20140401 15:17:23< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, you still around?
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20140401 15:19:12< zookeeper> mattsc, well, i guess he's pretty much the only person who _might_ do it, so why not
20140401 15:20:06< mattsc> zookeeper: okay, will do
20140401 15:23:54< shadowm> timotei_: You've never heard before of this thing called marketing?
20140401 15:24:54< shadowm> In Spanish you get two exclamation marks for the price of one.
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20140401 15:26:36< adityapande> aishiko_lapton: yes
20140401 15:27:08< adityapande> aishiko_laptop: yes
20140401 15:27:30< Aishiko_laptop> I have it split into 4 files no more then 650MB if that will help you, I just need a place to upload it
20140401 15:27:30< shadowm> adityapande: You should be able to type the first few characters of a name and press tab once or twice to auto-complete the name.
20140401 15:27:46< adityapande> ohh
20140401 15:27:47< happygrue> ¡Que bueno!
20140401 15:27:57< shadowm> happygrue: *Qué
20140401 15:28:01< adityapande> i ve started downloading the zip
20140401 15:28:02< happygrue> :(
20140401 15:28:13< happygrue> I only speak enough spanish to get me into trouble, not out of it.
20140401 15:28:31< shadowm> The funny thing is that 'que' and 'qué' are pronounced the same.
20140401 15:28:35< Aishiko_laptop> ahh the zip is only 422 so it doesn't have most of what git needs
20140401 15:28:41< happygrue> heh
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20140401 15:29:07< adityapande> Aishiko_laptop: ohh
20140401 15:29:35< Aishiko_laptop> adityapande, yes I found that out in a test here, its way way smaller then a clone of the repo
20140401 15:30:10< adityapande> k
20140401 15:31:49< Aishiko_laptop> the zip will have the master and what they currently are so that'll get you at least the current state of the master to play with and make your changes
20140401 15:33:25< adityapande> i already have the 1.10.7 code for practice :). So I can wait for the download..
20140401 15:34:02< shadowm> adityapande: I answered to your private query from earlier btw.
20140401 15:34:28< adityapande> thanks i ll check it
20140401 15:35:10< shadowm> So... what zip are you trying to download?
20140401 15:36:39< adityapande> the newer 1.13 version
20140401 15:37:26< shadowm> If you want to contribute, you really should clone the Git repository instead to take full advantage of the tools available for contributing patches.
20140401 15:37:55< shadowm> The zip GitHub offers has only a snapshot of the working tree of the branch in its present state, but it lacks all the additional data Git needs to operate.
20140401 15:38:46< adityapande> i tried cloning the repo but it always fails as my network is very poor
20140401 15:39:36< shadowm> Is it network instability, or just slow speed?
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20140401 16:24:59< adityapande> shadowm: it is both slow and unstable here at the college
20140401 16:35:46< Soliton> Rhonda: sounds interesting. if it's just better than what we have now... well, just go for it. only concern i would have is what kind of dependency we're getting into with that.
20140401 16:41:02< Dugi> wesbot: seen mordante
20140401 16:41:03< wesbot> Dugi: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 1d 23h ago.  1d 23h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
20140401 16:45:48< Soliton> shadowm: i think we should host a zip/tarball of the repo somewhere where it can be downloaded with resuming. and occasionally update it when there's someone with an unstable connection.
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20140401 16:48:00< shadowm> We already do and I'm updating it right now.
20140401 16:48:02< Aishiko_laptop> Soliton, I was working on setting up something like that for adityapande, though if it was an officially hosted thing that might be a better idea
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20140401 16:48:32< Soliton> shadowm: i thought so, just making sure. :-)
20140401 16:49:11< Ivanovic> Rhonda: yes, please drive the SSL certification!
20140401 16:49:20< Ivanovic> Rhonda: our license URL is a direct link to the gpl (v2 IIRC)
20140401 16:49:34< Soliton> Aishiko_laptop: yeah, thanks, but we can do it from wesnoth.org.
20140401 16:49:49< zookeeper> eh, what, git can't resume cloning?
20140401 16:50:47< Soliton> of course it can't git is the spawn of evil!
20140401 16:50:58< Aishiko_laptop> Soliton, yeah I figured as much when shadowm was talking about updating the one on the site, and was like "What??? why didn't you say something about that hours ago?!?!?" =P  I might have missed it
20140401 16:50:59< zookeeper> yay, a convert!
20140401 16:51:01< zookeeper> awesome.
20140401 16:51:05< zookeeper> my work has paid off
20140401 16:51:14< Aishiko_laptop> zookeeper, I went in thinking git was evil
20140401 16:51:31< shadowm> Aishiko_laptop: I wasn't around hours ago.
20140401 16:52:42< Aishiko_laptop> shadowm, sorry I though I had seen you when that discussion started
20140401 16:53:08< Aishiko_laptop> now its time to go get lunch
20140401 16:53:17< Aishiko_laptop> bye
20140401 16:56:20< shadowm> adityapande: If you have a download app that can resume downloads, you can download http://files.wesnoth.org/hidden/git/wesnoth-git.tar instead to get a working clone (also see <http://files.wesnoth.org/hidden/git/README>).
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20140401 17:14:29< shadowm> adityapande: As for your last question in query, I can't possibly recommend switching to Linux if you are not already familiarized with it. It's certainly much easier to do development work there, but you also have to get used of doing pretty much everything in a different way than you are probably used to if you are a Windows user.
20140401 17:14:55< shadowm> adityapande: It's also better to ask such questions here, as I said before.
20140401 17:15:08< shadowm> *get used to
20140401 17:16:48< shadowm> adityapande: Also, I just checked in CB and it does have an option to find in files in the Search menu -> Find in files...
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20140401 17:29:59< adityapande> shadowm: thanks
20140401 17:33:21< adityapande> good night everyone
20140401 17:33:36< adityapande> hope tomorrow will be more productive
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20140401 17:35:50< timotei_> Just wondering. Why doen't people use MSVC on Windows? Or Event QtCreator. CodeBlocks is a paint to work with - at least from my experience.
20140401 17:36:06< timotei_> There is MSVC Express for almost all kind of dev and it's free even for commercial use :D
20140401 17:39:20< shadowm> timotei_: Parallel builds.
20140401 17:39:33< shadowm> Come on, I've discussed the issue at length with you several times.
20140401 17:39:37< timotei_> Right. Forgot about that ^_^
20140401 17:39:48< mattsc> Coffee_irc: I posted the jerky image motion bug: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?21883
20140401 17:39:53< timotei_> Well, that's why I said that even QtCreator (using gcc) is better.
20140401 17:40:54< mattsc> Coffee_irc: should I assign it to you?  Also, I used ‘Graphics’ as item group.  Not sure if that’s quite correct, but I everything else seemed not quite right either.
20140401 17:41:01< shadowm> I've never tried to use QtCreator with Wesnoth, I expect some pain since there's no readily available project file to start from.
20140401 17:41:35< timotei_> It can directly import from cmake.
20140401 17:41:53< timotei_> If I remember correctly I even tried that before (or at least with KDevelop)
20140401 17:41:53< shadowm> I only use CB because it was pretty much ready for use (sans the hideous documentation which I later replaced) without having to spend dozens of hours doing dependency hunting and rebuilding on Windows.
20140401 17:42:19< shadowm> Of course for anything larger than a quick Windows-specific hack I use kdevelop on Linux.
20140401 17:42:26< Coffee_irc> mattsc: hi, I'll post first how to replicate the bug easily
20140401 17:43:12< mattsc> Coffee_irc: sounds good.  I did instructions how to reproduce on OS X, but only a general comment for Linux.
20140401 17:43:15< Coffee_irc> mattsc: I should have some time on the weekend to take a look at it
20140401 17:43:47< Coffee_irc> and if I find I can't fix it I'm thinking of passing it on to jamit
20140401 17:44:04< mattsc> Coffee_irc: great - getting this fixed (even just the worst part of it) would very much increase the enjoyability of fogged scenarios.
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20140401 17:45:40< mattsc> shadowm: FYI, Alrantalara went over the list of OS X issues also.  I added a couple bullets based on his comments, but nothing has changed significantly.
20140401 17:46:01< shadowm> Okau.
20140401 17:46:11< mattsc> *Alarantalara  — hard to type that correctly when he’s not online  :P
20140401 17:48:26-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054136047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 17:50:35< Coffee_irc> mattsc: I've put the information I gathered about reproducing the bug in the report
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20140401 17:50:52< AI0867> Aishiko: the zip is just a checkout, it does not contain the repository
20140401 17:50:55< mattsc> Coffee_irc: thanks
20140401 17:51:32< AI0867> we have a tarball of a clone somewhere on the server though, which you can download with resume-support
20140401 17:51:38< Coffee_irc> mattsc: oh, you already put that information in there :P
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20140401 17:52:42< mattsc> Coffee_irc: hehe.  I tried to tell you (9 mins ago up there ^).  ;)
20140401 17:52:48< gfgtdf> mattsc: did you test wether it is realted to mnimap ?
20140401 17:53:11< mattsc> gfgtdf: I have done no additional tests since we talked last time.
20140401 17:54:37< gfgtdf> mattsc: did you already have tis probmens on earlier versions like 1.115 ?
20140401 17:54:44< gfgtdf> .5*
20140401 17:55:07< mattsc> I don’t know about 1.11.5, but I know it’s been around for months.
20140401 17:55:28-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140401 17:55:31< mattsc> … and before you say why didn’t I report it before …
20140401 17:56:01< mattsc> I’ve seen it discussed several times both on the forums and irc, so I figured it was known and would eventually being worked on.
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20140401 17:56:32< mattsc> But as we are getting closer to 1.12.0, I figured I maybe needed people to be more aware of just how bad it can be.
20140401 17:56:56< gfgtdf> mattsc: youd you try outcommenting this line : https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/actions/vision.cpp#L585 ?
20140401 17:57:01< gfgtdf> could*
20140401 17:58:01< mattsc> gfgtdf: okay - let me finish what I am doing at the moment first, then I’ll do that.
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20140401 18:00:04< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: are you talking about the jerky movement bug
20140401 18:00:07< Coffee_irc> ?
20140401 18:00:21< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: yes, 
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20140401 18:00:36< Coffee_irc> interestingly with cpulimit I get the jerkyback and forth movement with or without fog
20140401 18:01:00< gfgtdf> i has a similar isee whih was relaed to slow minimap redrwaing on fogged large maps
20140401 18:01:04< gfgtdf> had*
20140401 18:01:07< Coffee_irc> it is just more noticeable with fog on
20140401 18:02:04< Coffee_irc> the other animations are fine
20140401 18:02:14< Coffee_irc> including windmills and water
20140401 18:02:16< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: then your isse is most likeley different to mine, and unrelated to minimap
20140401 18:02:20< Coffee_irc> attack and defense
20140401 18:02:45< Coffee_irc> I believe the jerky movements are to do with the code that deals with between hex movements
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20140401 18:03:53< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: for the issue i had im 100% sure that that was related to draw minimap, do our issue happen on large and on small mps ?
20140401 18:04:00< gfgtdf> your*
20140401 18:04:52< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: it happens for me on hamlets 2p
20140401 18:04:59< Coffee_irc> I haven't tested other maps yet
20140401 18:05:21< Coffee_irc> and I am playing with "cpulimit -10 ./wesnoth"
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20140401 18:07:21< mattsc> Coffee_irc: so should I test the minimap thing gfgtdf suggested?
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20140401 18:07:39< Coffee_irc> mattsc: we can turn it off now I think ;)
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20140401 18:08:48< mattsc> Coffee_irc: sorry … ?  Turn off the minimap or that being the potential cause of the problem?
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20140401 18:08:56< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: i think its clear that in your case the reason was different than in my case, but that doesnt mean that mattsc's case it's differnet than my case.
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20140401 18:09:23< Coffee_irc> mattsc: any new information is worth having for this problem
20140401 18:09:46< Coffee_irc> interestingly switching to the color coded minimap also lessens the issue here
20140401 18:09:53< Coffee_irc> but it is still present
20140401 18:10:13< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: really ? :o
20140401 18:10:43< Coffee_irc> I think what is happening is that the graphics are dirty and being switched quickly
20140401 18:11:00< Coffee_irc> and with more detail in the minimap or fog the time on screen is increased
20140401 18:11:18< Coffee_irc> the graphics card may kill the image flicker if it is too short on the screen
20140401 18:11:52< Coffee_irc> but I may be completely wrong, I haven't analysed the code fully :P
20140401 18:12:00< gfgtdf> what do you mean by durty graphics ?
20140401 18:12:37< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: if I am not mistaken at the moment the game says where dirty areas of the screen are and they get cleaned on a background buffer
20140401 18:13:06< Coffee_irc> the buffers are switched after drawing is complete giving some fps screen animations for the game as a whole
20140401 18:13:12< mattsc> Hmm, compiling just failed, something about BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT_MSG …
20140401 18:14:15< mattsc> Probably a new or newly deleted file, but unless somebody can tell me exactly what, I’ll need to postpone these tests.  Busy again.
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20140401 18:15:32< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: the relevant code is in unit_display.cpp unit_mover and such
20140401 18:16:09< Coffee_irc> the main unit is hidden after moving the first bit from the first hex and a "fake unit" is animated until it reaches the next hex
20140401 18:16:42< Coffee_irc> my suspicion is that the fake unit is not saying where the screen is dirty properly
20140401 18:17:22< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: is your approach fixing the bug that shows the wrong image or finding the code that slows the game enough to make the image visible ?
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20140401 18:18:13< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: I think I will try first with a full screen update for each buffer at each point in the movement to see if I can eliminate the back and forth motion
20140401 18:18:26< Coffee_irc> and then work back from there to get it smooth
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20140401 18:19:39< mattsc> gfgtdf, Coffee_irc: well, compiling worked on 1.11.12+dev, so I just did the test there.  No noticeable change after commenting out that line.
20140401 18:19:39< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: ideally it should not show back and forth movements regardless of how much the computer is struggling with other tasks
20140401 18:19:43< Aishiko> AI0867, yes we figured that out but thanks for the confirmation
20140401 18:19:55< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm ok ty
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20140401 18:24:26< mattsc> AI0867: did you add or delete any files recently (yesterday or so)?  I suddenly get a ‘use of undeclared identifier 'BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT_MSG’’ error.
20140401 18:24:57< mattsc> … and I see that some of your commit contain boost lines, but I didn’t see any new files.
20140401 18:26:07< Coffee_irc> mattsc/gfgtdf: for interest I get the same graphics issue on 1.10.6
20140401 18:26:18< Coffee_irc> just less of it
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20140401 18:27:25< mordante> servus
20140401 18:28:45< Coffee_irc> hi mordante
20140401 18:28:52< mordante> hi Coffee_irc 
20140401 18:29:34< mordante> lipkab shamelessly citing »A texture's pixels can't be accessed directly, thus we may also want to keep a copy of the surface the texture was created from in the class, in case a modified image is needed later. «
20140401 18:30:25< mattsc> AI0867: just in case it helps, here’s the full error message: http://pastebin.com/HeD5SNAk
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20140401 18:30:56< mordante> Aishiko, around?
20140401 18:31:58< Aishiko> mordante, yes I am.
20140401 18:32:22< Aishiko> was preparing to take a test but that can wait an hour if need be
20140401 18:32:29< mordante> Aishiko, I'd like to look your proposal in a few minutes and discuss it afterwards
20140401 18:32:40< Aishiko> Of course, thank you
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20140401 18:34:22< mordante> shadowm, zookeeper yes I don't want to remove the title screen animation, since some people were attached to it and after I implemented it was like, well not really needed. If people tell me that _before_ I spend time on it ok
20140401 18:36:14< mordante> Aishiko, »Syntax making sure that its easy to use and understand for the average user« sounds funny, the current syntax already does not qualify to it ;-)
20140401 18:36:39< mordante> Aishiko, btw did you look at Frogatto's spritesheets?
20140401 18:36:50< Aishiko> mordante, I think that is why its now optional goal
20140401 18:37:04< Aishiko> mordante, yes I did Plan B is more like how they do it\
20140401 18:37:26< mordante> ok, because I think it's hard, without making the current code incompatible
20140401 18:38:23< mordante> the time table looks much more readable :-)
20140401 18:39:11< AI0867> mattsc: same as this? http://baldras.wesnoth.org:8080/job/Wesnoth/85/branch=master,compiler=default,label=Debian6-64/console
20140401 18:39:29< AI0867> that's probably outdated compiler + outdated boost
20140401 18:39:44< Aishiko> what I was thinking was in B (which I think is more feasible), would be that on the C++ side when the config is read that it would go [spritesheet] and go down the sheet-prim-road otherwise it would continue on the current path of single images
20140401 18:40:08< mordante> I'm first skimming the changes, will read the plans afterwards
20140401 18:40:15< AI0867> mattsc: upgrading the distro of that build slave fixed things
20140401 18:40:46< mattsc> AI0867: well, it’s not literally the same, but yes, something like that.
20140401 18:41:01< Aishiko> mordante, but it would be an all or nothing change per unit.  and take your time, I can always find something to do =)
20140401 18:41:04< mattsc> AI0867: you mean that I need to update boost for the Xcode build?
20140401 18:41:22< AI0867> possibly
20140401 18:41:36< AI0867> which boost version do you have now?
20140401 18:41:36< mattsc> that might not be … trivial  (I don’t know)
20140401 18:41:53< mordante> Aishiko, regarding »Mid-term evaluation, I would like to receive feedback before…« don't worry if you're selected I'd like to discuss the progress on a weekly basis
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20140401 18:42:36< Aishiko> mordante, that was just being, hopefully redundant, and saying I encourage feedback
20140401 18:43:14< mordante> IIRC you already did some patches didn't you?
20140401 18:43:16< mattsc> umm …  how do I find out…  none of the file names contains a version number …
20140401 18:44:18< mattsc> AI0867: Ah, there: #define BOOST_LIB_VERSION "1_45"
20140401 18:48:13< AI0867> Ivanovic: I just found that code::blocks for pandora seems to contain boost 1.51
20140401 18:48:32< Aishiko> mordante, 1 non trivial at the moment
20140401 18:49:03< AI0867> mattsc: well, debian6 (on which the build failed too) has 1.42, while debian7 has 1.49
20140401 18:49:11< Aishiko> it was like 8 different commits in 1 patch
20140401 18:49:22< mordante> ok, it would be nice to get another one, I want to think about something more related to your project
20140401 18:49:29< Aishiko> I've got another in the pipe as we speak
20140401 18:49:50< Aishiko> mordante, alright
20140401 18:50:05< mordante> what's the one you have in the pipe?
20140401 18:51:25< Coffee_irc> and more importantly is it legal ;)
20140401 18:51:28< Aishiko> its removing the unit recall_cost if they are all using the team.recall_cost, minor in my opinion.  I'll back burner it for whatever you would prefer to have me work on
20140401 18:51:38< Coffee_irc> scons -j 3
20140401 18:52:08< Coffee_irc> sorry wrong input
20140401 18:52:09< AI0867> mattsc: it's probably ea8a3bbcd970bda81b1c, you could revert that locally (git revert --no-commit) to see if that's it
20140401 18:52:30< mattsc> AI0867: okay, let me try
20140401 18:53:04< mattsc> crimson_penguin: do you know how hard it would be to update the boost libraries for the Xcode build (only the boost libraries, not everything)?
20140401 18:53:54< mordante> Aishiko, I first need to think about something, won't be tonight
20140401 18:54:06< mordante> (it's evening over here)
20140401 18:54:57< Aishiko> mordante, I understand I used to live in Germany so I can work with that pretty easily I think
20140401 18:55:09< crimson_penguin> mattsc: shouldn't be too hard
20140401 18:55:30< mattsc> AI0867: no, still failing (the line number is unicode.hpp is different now)
20140401 18:55:43< AI0867>  and it worked yesterday?
20140401 18:55:58< mordante> Aishiko, nice, are you able to speak German?
20140401 18:56:22< Aishiko> mattsc, your getting that too?  I thought it was because my gcc is at only 4.4.x on the laptop
20140401 18:56:38< mattsc> crimson_penguin: okay, I can look into it (never done that before. but given enough time, I’m sure i can figure it out)
20140401 18:57:05< Aishiko> mordante, Ich bin spreaka kleine Deutch, meine Deutch ist sher slect. (and my spelling too!)
20140401 18:57:27-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140401 18:58:10< crimson_penguin> mattsc: last time I did it it was slightly confusing getting their bjam thing working, but once I set it up it worked fine, and the only thing I needed to change was the install path of the libraries, which can be done with install_name_tool
20140401 18:58:10< Aishiko> I understand more spoken then I can speak or read
20140401 18:58:11< mattsc> AI0867: I don’t know for sure about yesterday, but very recently.
20140401 18:58:26< mattsc> Aishiko: yes, here too.
20140401 18:59:23< mattsc> crimson_penguin: thanks - I’m busy the rest of today, but I’ll look into it sometime soon.
20140401 18:59:34< mordante> Aishiko, understanding it indeed is much easier
20140401 19:00:41< Aishiko> mattsc, though I stunned one gentleman that on hearing me say that phrase, because I didn't have an accent (what I think he meant is that I had a native speaker's accent) but I was in Germany from 8 til 16 and on the economy from 11 or 12
20140401 19:01:38< Ivanovic> AI0867: there are for sure some options to get basically any library which builds on arm to build for the pandora
20140401 19:01:54< Rhonda> Soliton: What kind of dependency do you fear?
20140401 19:02:01< Ivanovic> AI0867: this does not mean that i would like to deviate from the pandora package set if possible since i hate shipping libs in those app bundles
20140401 19:02:29< mordante> Aishiko, personally I prefer the additional syntax after the .png, like most parameters
20140401 19:02:39< AI0867> Ivanovic: well, I may have just broken the build for boost versions up to at least 1.45
20140401 19:02:56< Ivanovic> AI0867: then you should fix it
20140401 19:03:01< AI0867> you might want to check that the pandora build still works
20140401 19:03:04< Ivanovic> AI0867: i saw no mail to the dev ml taht this is required...
20140401 19:03:06< Ivanovic> ;)
20140401 19:03:18< Ivanovic> please remind me to do this sometime this weekend
20140401 19:03:21< AI0867> Ivanovic: well, it seems to be a boost/compiler interaction
20140401 19:03:31< Aishiko> mordante, I do to but I was following the example set with the current way, easily changed
20140401 19:03:36< AI0867> the construct I used is supposed to be supported
20140401 19:03:49< Ivanovic> i am rather K.O. right now and tomorrow is gonna be far worse (got a night trip to copenhagen coming up and won't get sleep during the night since i got to do some work)
20140401 19:04:03< mordante> Aishiko, the syntax »image[1~4].png« makes little sense with the spritesheets so then we all have suffixes
20140401 19:04:46< mordante> I like the angle braces <> IIRC they are not used yet
20140401 19:05:08< shadowm> They are not.
20140401 19:05:12< Aishiko> mordante, and would we be able to reuse the existing [1~4] or would I need to , OK 
20140401 19:05:51< shadowm> It's probably worth noting that double angle brackets do have a meaning for the WML preprocessor, still.
20140401 19:05:52< mordante> Aishiko, we can't reuse [1~4].png since we still need to support the old animation style
20140401 19:06:03< Coffee_irc> Aishiko/mordante: is the syntax something that you are going to discuss on the forum page (http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=568633)?
20140401 19:06:43< Aishiko> but the code to parse out the filenames would we be able to use that or would that require all new system to read the numbers within I was thinking of just either using whats there or copying and modifying for the spritesheets
20140401 19:07:38< mordante> Coffee_irc, jein I'd rather discuss it here first and once we have something that seems feasible (from a coding and user point of view) we can discuss it on the forum
20140401 19:08:02< Coffee_irc> mordante: ok
20140401 19:08:03< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, sort of, once we're done here I'm going to update that
20140401 19:08:14< mordante> but my experience with the forum is, if your idea doesn't have a certain amount of polish it get's shot down rather quickly
20140401 19:08:25< Coffee_irc> yeah, that's true :P
20140401 19:08:25< mordante> Coffee_irc, but if you have ideas feel free to chip in
20140401 19:08:43< Coffee_irc> I wrote the current syntax with boucman
20140401 19:08:48< mattsc> AI0867: what’s the easiest way to get that commit back in my repository?
20140401 19:09:27< mordante> Coffee_irc, you are aware what the sprite sheets are about?
20140401 19:09:28< Coffee_irc> I suggest that it might be easiest to extend the syntax we have and easiest to port existing/old code
20140401 19:09:35< Coffee_irc> mordante: yeah
20140401 19:09:42< mordante> ok good
20140401 19:09:43< mattsc> AI0867: never mind, ‘git status’ actually tells me ...
20140401 19:09:45< Coffee_irc> makes sense to me to go with spreitesheets
20140401 19:09:51< Coffee_irc> *spritesheets
20140401 19:10:31< mordante> yes I also like to extend the existing format, but disallow foo[1,2].png for sprite sheets since IMO it makes no sense at all
20140401 19:10:45< Coffee_irc> angle brackets if used might interfere with terrain WML, but may not
20140401 19:11:01< shadowm> Coffee_irc: How so?
20140401 19:11:06< Coffee_irc> I suggest that whatever syntax be compatible with both animationWML for units as well as for terrain
20140401 19:11:18-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 19:11:19< zookeeper> wouldn't it already be sufficient distinction that with sheets it'd be image.png[stuff] whereas the old syntax is image[stuff].png?
20140401 19:11:22< Coffee_irc> because we have animated terrain
20140401 19:11:51< shadowm> Coffee_irc: But < > don't have a meaning for terrain graphics atm.
20140401 19:11:57< Coffee_irc> shadowm: ok
20140401 19:12:03< Coffee_irc> that makes it easy to use then :)
20140401 19:12:09< shadowm> Perhaps you are thinking of carets: ^
20140401 19:12:18< mordante> but yes I prefer a single syntax
20140401 19:12:30< mordante> Coffee_irc, did you see Aishiko's proposal?
20140401 19:12:37< Coffee_irc> I would favor replacing the current syntax everywhere 
20140401 19:12:37< Aishiko> I was leaning toward the <> if we could not reuse the current multi-file[] one
20140401 19:12:39< shadowm> And as I said << >> is used by the WML preprocessor (verbatim strings).
20140401 19:12:44< Coffee_irc> mordante: yes
20140401 19:12:55< mordante> any feedback?
20140401 19:13:25< shadowm> But since I'm not a novice WML programmer I wouldn't really be able to tell if I'd find the existence of similar syntax with completely different meaning confusing.
20140401 19:13:32< Coffee_irc> personally I like the idea of <image[1~30]> and defining images separately at the start of a unit/terrain file
20140401 19:13:58< mordante> zookeeper, except that we also already have foo.png:[stuff] which might confuse people with foo.png[stuff]
20140401 19:14:03< Coffee_irc> but I am happy for any reasonable system that meets our needs well
20140401 19:14:09< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, I think that is what mordante told me was overly complicating things but I could be wrong
20140401 19:14:29< zookeeper> mordante, we do?
20140401 19:14:39< Aishiko> zookeeper, yes the timing
20140401 19:14:42< Coffee_irc> you would only need to define the spritesheet once at the start of the file and then reference it in each attack/defense/standing animation
20140401 19:14:55< mordante> zookeeper, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AnimationWML
20140401 19:15:03< zookeeper> oh, i thought he meant the brackets were included
20140401 19:15:05< zookeeper> sure
20140401 19:15:06< Coffee_irc> and otherwise you need to define the number of rows/padding/etc. at each image=
20140401 19:15:15< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, you have not seen the current one, Plan B has that with a Spritesheet defination
20140401 19:15:33< zookeeper> nevermind what i just said
20140401 19:15:36< Coffee_irc> where are your secret plans? :P
20140401 19:15:42< zookeeper> yeah, that'd be confusing so scratch my idea then
20140401 19:15:46< mordante> Coffee_irc,  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SpriteSheetApplicationSAB
20140401 19:15:54< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SpriteSheetApplicationSAB#Plan_B
20140401 19:16:10< zookeeper> well, i've basically said all i have to say on the matter in the thread already so i guess i can leave it at that
20140401 19:16:33< Aishiko> zookeeper, thank you for you input the forum thread is pretty dead
20140401 19:16:58< shadowm> Well, the art forums in general are pretty dead.
20140401 19:17:27< Aishiko> artist like to do artistry stuff not talk on dusty old forums
20140401 19:17:33< Coffee_irc> Aishiko/mordante: that seems overly complicated to me :P
20140401 19:17:34-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140401 19:17:43< shadowm> No, it's more like we don't have many active artists anymore.
20140401 19:18:01< AI0867> mattsc: http://ai.ai0867.net/tmp/static_assert.diff ← does this fix it?
20140401 19:18:21< Coffee_irc> if you define the spritesheets in a separte WML part, why go with image="units/elves-wood/Elvish_Sorceress<25,35,77,107>.png:[80]"
20140401 19:18:25< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, which version? both or just one?
20140401 19:18:45< Coffee_irc> you could do just image="<Elvish_Sorceress[25,35,77,107]>:[80]"
20140401 19:19:00< Coffee_irc> or even image="<Elvish_Sorceress[25,35,77,107]>:80"
20140401 19:19:27< Coffee_irc> or image="<Elvish_Sorceress>[25,35,77,107]:80"
20140401 19:20:09-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 19:20:16< Coffee_irc> the angle brackets could denote spritesheet from IDs
20140401 19:20:30< Aishiko> and the string of numbers?
20140401 19:20:44< Coffee_irc> ?
20140401 19:20:53< Coffee_irc> oh, this is from your proposal
20140401 19:20:59< Coffee_irc> the example you give
20140401 19:22:06< Aishiko> [25,35,77,107]  I assume are the coordinates, well by defining where each image is located in a seperate section it would allow for shorter animation calls instead of having to call each image and the timing for that image separately
20140401 19:22:35< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: that is I suppose up to you to figure out
20140401 19:22:59< mordante> AI0867, why not use a trinary operator in your patch?
20140401 19:23:01< Coffee_irc> could be just numbered across 1,2,3 and then next row 4,5,6
20140401 19:23:21< Coffee_irc> or you could use A1,A2,A3 and then B1,B2,B3
20140401 19:24:19< Coffee_irc> but you might run into problems after Z
20140401 19:24:22< AI0867> mordante: eh, that works too
20140401 19:24:31< mattsc> AI0867: no, same error  (I did a ‘git apply --stat <filename>, is that correct?)
20140401 19:24:44< Aishiko> well Coffee_irc that is why in the Sprite sheet WML I'm proposing, that once defined each gets a number and number can be dropped into the <> or [] or whatever it is, so that you can still in one line call a long or complex animation just as you can now
20140401 19:25:10< Aishiko> and number=and that number
20140401 19:25:28< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: currently the [] syntax actually maps back to non [] as a seies of comma separated strings
20140401 19:25:55< AI0867>        --stat
20140401 19:25:55< AI0867>            Instead of applying the patch, output diffstat for the input. Turns off "apply".
20140401 19:25:59< AI0867> mattsc: ^
20140401 19:26:06< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: "a[1~3]" is actually read by the game as "a1,a2,a3"
20140401 19:26:08< AI0867> so no, that doesn't actually apply the patch
20140401 19:26:25< Aishiko> I'm hoping to implement spritesheets and not step backwards in functionality for the animation calls
20140401 19:26:26< mattsc> AI0867:  ugh …   :\ 
20140401 19:26:50< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, I realize that its like regex but more then that too
20140401 19:27:11-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 233 bugs, 352 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140401 19:27:31< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: if you did "<spritesheet>[1~3]" this would be equivalent to "<spritesheet>1,<spritesheet>2,<spritesheet>3"
20140401 19:27:49< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: you could mix and match this with the existing syntax if you wanted to
20140401 19:28:29< Coffee_irc> just by linking with commas
20140401 19:29:01< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, in that case we could take the ImageName and do Attack_[1~10,1,2] which then could map back out to those Frames like it does for the individual files now
20140401 19:29:19< mattsc> AI0867: sorry for that, I’m trying to rush through things while also trying to get lunch and work done at the same time  :P
20140401 19:29:25< mordante> for now it is possible to allow multiple images in one image with the [] syntax, but how often is it used?
20140401 19:29:46< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, that was part of the plan leverage as much of the existing syntax work so I'm not reinventing the wheel
20140401 19:29:48< AI0867> mordante: you mean like foo-[1~5].png ?
20140401 19:29:51< mattsc> AI0867: yes, that seems to have worked.  Well, it’s still compiling since I cleaned the build earlier, but it got done with wesnothd without problems.
20140401 19:29:52< mordante> yes
20140401 19:29:55< AI0867> a lot
20140401 19:30:11< AI0867> someone's put quite a bit of effort in simplifying the core animation WML
20140401 19:30:12< mordante> :-(
20140401 19:30:22< Coffee_irc> Aishiko: I suppose you could just drop the <> but you will have a problem with strings that end in numbers
20140401 19:30:34< Aishiko> from what I've seen I agree with AI0867 which is why I wanted to keep it in use for the spritesheets though it makes it a bit more difficult of a task
20140401 19:30:56< Dugi> mordante: I am trying to message you, why aren't you replying?
20140401 19:31:05< Coffee_irc> mordante: the [] syntax was implemented for 1.11
20140401 19:31:23< Coffee_irc> so addon authors haven't yet got to it
20140401 19:31:41< Coffee_irc> but it will significantly reduce the file sizes of several eras
20140401 19:32:08< mordante> what about transforming »foo-[1~5].png« to foo-[<x,y,w,h>,<x,y,w,h>,<x,y,w,h>,<x,y,w,h>].png (not a beauty) 
20140401 19:32:15< Dugi> Coffee_irc: How many eras actually have *any* animations?
20140401 19:32:33< mordante> the problem I see is that the »frames« are not the same size?
20140401 19:32:39< shadowm> Coffee_irc: Well, I believe EoC already did it, but not sure if it's been released yet.
20140401 19:32:49< Coffee_irc> Dugi: era of magic would benefit a lot
20140401 19:33:00< Coffee_irc> I actually di a test here on that
20140401 19:33:03< mordante> Dugi, where are you messaging me? Also if you didn't notice I'm in a conversation here
20140401 19:33:09< Aishiko> mordante, that is the biggest issue some units don't have uniformed size for the same unit.  Like the Trolls for example
20140401 19:33:11< AI0867> Dugi: EoS has them
20140401 19:33:39< mordante> AI0867, exactly
20140401 19:33:54< Coffee_irc> it speeds up loading and reduces the cached file size
20140401 19:34:16< Aishiko> and as its been pointed out to me, that means alot of work for the artists to go back and resize images they've already made, etc
20140401 19:34:19< Coffee_irc> spritesheets would do the same, but on the image loading side
20140401 19:34:20< AI0867> mordante: I think you mean Aishiko 
20140401 19:34:32< mordante> AI0867, exactly ;-)
20140401 19:34:37< AI0867> =P
20140401 19:34:59< mordante> if they are the same size the proposal could be foo-[{w,h}<row,column>,<row,column>,<row,column>,<row,column>].png
20140401 19:35:25< Coffee_irc> mordante: you don't need that
20140401 19:35:29< AI0867> 21:33 < Aishiko> mordante, … | 21:33 < mordante> AI0867, exactly21:34 < AI0867> mordante: I think you mean Aishiko | 21:34 < mordante> AI0867, exactly ;-)
20140401 19:35:32< AI0867> argh
20140401 19:35:36< Aishiko> mordante, assuming they are all right next to each other
20140401 19:35:46< Dugi> mordante: I messaged you long ago, and you weren't replying to anybody at that time. I thought you were afk.
20140401 19:35:51< Coffee_irc> mordante: if you make them all the same size then you can define the layout of the spritesheet at the start of the file
20140401 19:36:01< Dugi> Coffee_irc: There are indeed some exceptions.
20140401 19:36:06< Coffee_irc> mordante: and then only refer to a single index which finds the correct image
20140401 19:36:20< Coffee_irc> Dugi: I don't think there would be
20140401 19:37:11< Coffee_irc> you want to make it simple and reduce the complexity further than already we have
20140401 19:37:44-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 19:37:50< Coffee_irc> each type of animation (attack/defense/etc.) would then only need one [frame] block (2 for hits/misses)
20140401 19:38:59< mordante> Coffee_irc, what do you mean with at the start of the file, the image path or the png file itself
20140401 19:39:18< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, I think I see what you are saying and I thought that was what I was doing (for calling the frames at any rate) the defining, I'm not so sure I have a good way yet
20140401 19:39:30< Coffee_irc> mordante: like in Aishiko's plan B [spritesheet] definitions
20140401 19:39:31< mordante> Dugi, quite hard, I've been talking to/thinking about Aishiko's proposal almost from the moment I joined
20140401 19:39:56< mordante> Coffee_irc, ah ok so you think a sprite sheet definition is the way to go?
20140401 19:40:10< Coffee_irc> mordante: I think this would make the code the cleanest
20140401 19:40:22< Coffee_irc> it would be the shortest to read
20140401 19:40:27< mordante> Coffee_irc, I agree
20140401 19:40:36< Dugi> mordante: Sorry, I just thought you are using some sort of strange client that doesn't notify about other discussions or something like that.
20140401 19:40:52< iceiceice> i have a quick git/github question:
20140401 19:41:07< iceiceice> so there is this post about how people aren't finding the right tag unless they update their remotes
20140401 19:41:15< iceiceice> to point to wesnoth instead of wesnoth-old
20140401 19:41:16< mordante> then the »foo-[1~5].png« could be changed to »foo<1~5>.png«?
20140401 19:41:31< Coffee_irc> mordante: will a few code tweaks
20140401 19:41:40< iceiceice> my remotes have been updated locally, but my github fork was based off of "wesnoth-old" and i still see this when I navigate on the site
20140401 19:41:51< iceiceice> do i need to go in there and change that?
20140401 19:42:02< mordante> Dugi, well I didn't see it since I've too many open discussions and am pinged rather often
20140401 19:42:04< Coffee_irc> mordante: easier to implement would be "<foo>[1~5]", but just because that is how it works now
20140401 19:42:38-!- kex_ [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140401 19:42:39< Coffee_irc> mordante: you wouldn't actually have to do anything there, only how it reads <>
20140401 19:43:00< Coffee_irc> it already would expand to <foo>1,<foo>2, etc.
20140401 19:43:11-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 19:43:25< mordante> then we could even use $foo[1~5]
20140401 19:43:34< Coffee_irc> mordante: yeah
20140401 19:44:01< Coffee_irc> or "foo*[1~5]" or whatever you like
20140401 19:44:27< mordante> I think for parsing testing the first character is the easiest
20140401 19:44:32< Coffee_irc> the only caveat I could mention is that you want it compatible with terrainWML
20140401 19:45:03< Coffee_irc> mordante: you are right, $ would be easiest to check for
20140401 19:45:32< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, I want this to work with anything that could use a spritesheet, so that it can be reused anywhere (or as close to as possible)
20140401 19:45:32< mordante> Aishiko, what do you think?
20140401 19:46:23< mordante> Dugi, I'm not sure whether I have time tonight I don't feel too well and it's getting late here
20140401 19:46:24< Aishiko> mordante, Coffee_irc is pretty much describing how I see it working
20140401 19:46:37< mordante> ok
20140401 19:46:50< Dugi> mordante: I am in the same time zone. I can visit tomorrow.
20140401 19:47:58< Aishiko> compressed syntax for the calling, but I think the trade off is the Spritesheet defining WML that shows where the image is since we can't be assured of samesized images at the moment
20140401 19:48:04-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
20140401 19:48:09< mordante> and what about the sprite sheet code itself do we want to generate it manually
20140401 19:48:44< mordante> and what happens if we now have 5 columns and 3 rows how does an image get its id?
20140401 19:49:17< mordante> and of course the next question what happens for the second row we need a sixth column
20140401 19:49:19< Aishiko> manually or automatically?
20140401 19:49:20< mattsc> AI0867: build completed successfully, all good.
20140401 19:49:35< mordante> Dugi, yeah best try tomorrow
20140401 19:50:01< mordante> Aishiko, yes if we use colours as markers it would be possible to get the coordinates automatically
20140401 19:50:30< mordante> but the mapping is what tricky, especially if a new image is added 'in between'
20140401 19:50:53< Dugi> mordante: Just a side note, this is the third day in a row I am trying to catch you here.
20140401 19:50:58< Aishiko> yes it would but, that puts the person that adds an image to make sure that the unit cfg gets updated right for those calls
20140401 19:51:31< mordante> Dugi, I know, but I also have a real life
20140401 19:51:56< Dugi> mordante: So please don't forget about me, okay?
20140401 19:51:56< mordante> Dugi, if you have specific questions leave them in the log then I can read and answer them when I'm around
20140401 19:52:16< mordante> Dugi, also another dev might answer
20140401 19:52:35< Dugi> mordante: I have currently no specific questions, but I thought you had some more questions about the GSoC project I submitted.
20140401 19:52:54< mordante> Dugi, I won't forget about you, but Aishiko also has questions
20140401 19:52:54< Aishiko> now what we could do is a row/column thing or have them just put the Coordinates in so each image would be defined by say an imageID and a Coordiante so in that way we don't have to worry about automatically finding the coordiantes
20140401 19:54:17< mordante> Aishiko, what I think would be awesome is a tool that can scan an image and create a WML skeleton file
20140401 19:54:23< Aishiko> that also bypasses the what if someone sticks an image between row 4 and 5 or col 2 and 3 or even at the intersetion of rows and columns (like the corners) it would also let them pack in as many as they want as long as they don't overlap
20140401 19:54:46< mordante> containing the filename and all rectangles discovered and give them an increasing ID
20140401 19:54:52< Aishiko> mordante, I was thinking the same thing, but generic enough it could be used for anything
20140401 19:55:29< Aishiko> I've actually worked out how it would work and what functions to use, I just havn't made it yet
20140401 19:55:33< Coffee_irc> mordante: you are not going to be able to automate the timings though
20140401 19:55:42< mordante> Aishiko, I feel an idea for a patch ;-)
20140401 19:55:52< gfgtdf> why not let wesnot scan the image automticly when reading it and then not having to do things in wml ?
20140401 19:56:00< mordante> Coffee_irc, I don't want to
20140401 19:56:12< mordante> gfgtdf, the problem is to attach an ID to the frame
20140401 19:56:17-!- nathan__1 [~nathan@129.59.115.25] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 19:56:23< Aishiko> Coffee_irc, this is for just finding the images and producing a WML that lists just the images found
20140401 19:57:09< mordante> gfgtdf, of course it sounds simple and is simple, except at some point somebody will add a new image in between and thus screw up the ordering
20140401 19:57:23< Aishiko> mordante, it could also take the previous and just add the newly found images to the end so that if someone puts an image, they don't have to go through the whole config again to make change when 47 becomes 48 
20140401 19:57:29< mordante> and all image indexes after that image in the WML would be off by one
20140401 19:57:44< Aishiko> and if an image is removed same thing 46 doesn't become 45
20140401 19:57:51< iceiceice> ok problem solved: anyone, if you want to update your fork you be named "wesnoth" instead of "wesnoth-old", you can just go into settings and rename it, and update your remotes locally, and nothing seems to break
20140401 19:58:27< Coffee_irc> mordante/Aishiko: would this only be aproblem extending sidways if numbering horizontally?
20140401 19:58:47< Coffee_irc> couldn't you set it in the spritesheet definition whether to order vertically or horizontally?
20140401 19:59:11< Coffee_irc> because if you order horizontally from left to right and add extra vertically, it wouldn't change the order
20140401 19:59:15< mordante> Aishiko, that would even be more awesome, but I think that getting the initial tool would be a must have the update nice
20140401 19:59:27< mordante> Coffee_irc, except when you add a new row
20140401 20:00:07< Coffee_irc> mordante: if you number 1,2,3 and 4,5,6 and then add 7,8,9 to the bottom it wouldn't change the order
20140401 20:00:19< Coffee_irc> only if you add an extra column
20140401 20:00:33< mordante> yes that's the problem
20140401 20:00:46-!- irker470 [~irker@fehu.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140401 20:00:46< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 55b077a489c9 / data/core/about.cfg: updated credits for the Greek translation http://git.io/wLoNMQ
20140401 20:00:46< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 0dfff4f39224 / po/wesnoth-manual/sk.po: updated Slovak translation http://git.io/Yb6twA
20140401 20:00:47< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 eaea09ffd56a / / (11 files in 10 dirs): updated Italian translation http://git.io/bKhIiQ
20140401 20:00:48< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 277b5dd698a6 / data/core/about.cfg: updated credits for the Greek translation http://git.io/espj1g
20140401 20:00:49< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 88e378ab3091 / po/wesnoth-manual/sk.po: updated Slovak translation http://git.io/-__oEg
20140401 20:00:50< irker470> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 60d30a011250 / / (11 files in 10 dirs): updated Italian translation http://git.io/GKL_HA
20140401 20:01:13< Coffee_irc> mordante: isn't that a how many artists does it take to change a lightbulb thing :P
20140401 20:01:18< mordante> of course we could also make every row a multiple of a huge number 1000 or even 10000 then the problem is very unlikely to occur
20140401 20:01:20< Aishiko> mordante, I'll do that
20140401 20:01:31< Aishiko> make the tool I mean
20140401 20:01:33< Coffee_irc> (sorry, I work with artists all day) :P
20140401 20:02:11< mordante> Coffee_irc, uhm 1 to erase the existing bulb and one to draw the new bulb ;-)
20140401 20:02:13< zookeeper> "at some point somebody will add a new image in between" <- no matter what you do, re-ordering the sheet is obviously going to result in animations breaking...
20140401 20:03:02< Ivanovic> okay, then lets accept this possible issue as identical to the issue if someone changes the file names
20140401 20:03:04< Ivanovic> ;)
20140401 20:03:19< Aishiko> zookeeper, we've agreed and the auto-tool would be updated to make sure that doesn't break anything but we need the tool to get the intial config
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20140401 20:04:13< zookeeper> what tool? for converting existing anims to sheets?
20140401 20:07:13< mordante> zookeeper, no a tool that can extract the locations of the sprites on a sprite sheet
20140401 20:07:19< Aishiko> to take a spritesheet and parse out the WML code for each location
20140401 20:08:05< zookeeper> ok, in that case i don't understand what you were trying to say or how it related to what i said
20140401 20:08:45< Aishiko> zookeeper, me either!
20140401 20:09:02< zookeeper> uh, okay then :P
20140401 20:09:42< mordante> Aishiko, I've a function I'd like you to write »std::vector<SDL_Rect> get_sprite_locations(const surface& surf, const SDL_Colour border_colour);«
20140401 20:10:33< Aishiko> mordante, I need to go to class (or rather I need to go and take my test before class) so I'll be back on in 20 min or so and checking the room but, I sadly can't be as active at the moment in the chat.  and will do on the function
20140401 20:11:16< mordante> Aishiko, I will not be around when you get back, any questions what the function should do?
20140401 20:12:08< Aishiko> I think it should locate the sprites by a border, and return back WML code for that unit's images
20140401 20:12:22< Aishiko> am I in the ballpark?
20140401 20:13:07< mordante> close, not the WML code but the locations in an SDL_Rect, of course you're free to also create a function that writes the WML
20140401 20:13:29< mordante> and it should return all rects it finds
20140401 20:13:43< Aishiko> got it
20140401 20:14:05< Aishiko> find and return all sprite locations
20140401 20:14:13< mordante> the caller needs to specify the colour of the border, to make the function generic (I hate hard-coded values at a place where the do not return)
20140401 20:14:17< Aishiko> via a SDL_Rect
20140401 20:14:21< mordante> yes
20140401 20:14:36< Aishiko> OK will do!
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20140401 20:15:15< mordante> great :-)
20140401 20:15:33< mordante> either pastebin the code or post it to github
20140401 20:15:49< shadowm> Are we supposed to pass SDL_Color by value now?
20140401 20:16:09< Aishiko> actually I think I'll make it »std::vector<SDL_Rect> get_sprite_locations(const surface& surf)<< and have the first pixel (0,0) contain the border colour so that we don't have to send it its easily found if you like that idea
20140401 20:16:09< mordante> if you do in github post it as proof-of-concept patch for me
20140401 20:16:21< Aishiko> mordante, OK
20140401 20:16:44< mordante> shadowm, yeah since I failed to hit the ampersand ;-)
20140401 20:16:45< Ivanovic> AI0867: okay, i gave building a pandora binary out of master a try and it just worked
20140401 20:16:55< Ivanovic> AI0867: so you have not broken it in master for me
20140401 20:17:03< Ivanovic> where do you think that you broke stuff?
20140401 20:17:03< shadowm> Ah, okay.
20140401 20:17:08< Aishiko> bye off to class
20140401 20:17:13< mordante> Aishiko, bye
20140401 20:18:44< mordante> Aishiko, I don't mind whether you use the first pixel or the colour parameter. I care most about the code being able to properly detect the borders
20140401 20:20:00< mordante> Aishiko, also don't forget to update your proposal with what we just discussed
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20140401 20:25:40< Dugi> Guys, do you have a little time?
20140401 20:25:57< shadowm> Rhonda: Did we ever decide anything about using or not using SNI?
20140401 20:26:19< shadowm> Dugi: It's faster to ask your actual question right away...
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20140401 20:27:47< Dugi> Would it be possible to include a small change into 1.12? It is a correction of an inefficiency in the WML engine, it should have almost no visible effects, but without it my campaign needs a crazy and troublesomely buggy workaround.
20140401 20:28:05< shadowm> It depends on what the change entails.
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20140401 20:29:00< Dugi> I need the [advancement] variables from the unit_type to be taken from the unit_type in config cache and not stored inside every single unit. It can't be modified anyway.
20140401 20:29:50< Dugi> If some unit types have a lot of [advancement] tags, they bloat save files to humongous sizes and can cause even FPS drops.
20140401 20:30:23< Dugi> They can't be modified by unstore_unit, so there is no need for them to be stored inside single units.
20140401 20:30:28< shadowm> Those FPS drops shouldn't happen unless 1) you are saving games every single second or 2) causing memory thrashing.
20140401 20:31:44< Dugi> It happens anyway, despite the logic. Too many advancements possessed by units on screen -> much more CPU usage. It is a result of experiments, not a theory.
20140401 20:31:56< shadowm> Also, patches welcome I guess? I wouldn't really know for sure how much compatibility this breaks.
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20140401 20:32:21< iceiceice> Dugi: I thought the reason we wanted to store those in units is to support backwards compatibility
20140401 20:32:25< shadowm> That is, if it breaks compatibility with every add-on that needs to scan unit advancements from the unit instance... wait.
20140401 20:32:33< shadowm> Don't I do that in AtS?
20140401 20:33:11< mordante> I don't think it's a real bug fix and sounds rather dangerous for 1.12
20140401 20:33:23< Dugi> Why would somebody need to learn them from a unit when it can't be used for anything? And anyway, it can be learned by using store_unit_type.
20140401 20:34:42< shadowm> Well, I seem to scan and transfer [modifications][advance], not [advancement], but still, this sounds like something that has the potential to break add-on[Ds.
20140401 20:35:25< shadowm> Sure there is an alternative, but people might not necessarily become aware of the change after 1.11.10.
20140401 20:36:02< iceiceice> Dugi: maybe you should just profile the code and see what is actually causeing the CPU usage?
20140401 20:36:15< Dugi> There's no need to use it, unless you are creating an alternative advancement system that reads the [advancement] tags, lists them and transforms the chosen one into an [advance]. And I know of nobody actually using it.
20140401 20:36:15< mordante> also after the first beta we don't break backwards compatibility (unless there is a really big issue)
20140401 20:36:22< shadowm> This doesn't mean that the patch wouldn't be good for master (1.13), though, unless you take zookeeper's plea into account.
20140401 20:36:24< iceiceice> or turn on full debugging output and look at what the engine is doing?
20140401 20:36:46< shadowm> <http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40215>
20140401 20:36:47< iceiceice> i noticed a while ago that the engine seems to be doing some strange things frankly
20140401 20:37:11< Dugi> iceiceice: It was causing slowdowns, I removed the [advancement] tags in the save file and the slowdowns stopped.
20140401 20:37:23< iceiceice> yeah but that doesnt mean you know the case
20140401 20:37:25< iceiceice> *cause
20140401 20:37:39< iceiceice> if you profile wesnoth the same way that gfgtdf was doing earlier,
20140401 20:37:44< iceiceice> you get much more precise info
20140401 20:37:44< AI0867> 22:17 < Ivanovic> where do you think that you broke stuff? ← unicode.hpp, the BOOST_STATIC_ASSERT_MSG failed under debian oldstable and now also under mattsc's xcode setup
20140401 20:38:00< iceiceice> like you might be able to find an actual function which is implemented slowly or badly
20140401 20:38:30< Ivanovic> AI0867: and it works for the pandora
20140401 20:38:35< Dugi> Numerous [advancement] tags are the cause, but I am not sure what is causing that slowdown.
20140401 20:38:40< shadowm> iceiceice: By the way, do you know if there's code in Wesnoth to help with profiling like an object that prints the time difference between its instantiation and destruction to stderr?
20140401 20:38:48< AI0867> mattsc: does anyone else build on Xcode?
20140401 20:39:01< iceiceice> shadowm: i have no idea, i have never tried to profile wesnoth
20140401 20:39:18< iceiceice> but i saw (yesterday?) that gfgtdf was diagnosing slowdowns using some msvc profiler tool
20140401 20:39:28< AI0867> I could commit this fix, or ifdef it fox MAC_OS_X only, but it looks like you're the only one it's failing for now
20140401 20:39:31< Dugi> iceiceice: I am not sure what are you suggesting me, no idea how would I locate the exact place of the slowdown.
20140401 20:39:53< zookeeper> Dugi, well that's a pretty interesting discovery
20140401 20:39:57< AI0867> s/MAC_OS_X/__APPLE__/
20140401 20:39:57< mattsc> AI0867: at the very least Alarantalara does.  Turuk and Lord_Bob also used to, but I don’t know how active they are at the moment.  And every once in a while I get a request to help somebody with building, but not very often.
20140401 20:40:10< Dugi> zookeeper: You mean that slowdown?
20140401 20:40:12< shadowm> iceiceice: Right, there are tools for profiling in Linux too, but they look so complicated to me... :p
20140401 20:40:12< zookeeper> yeah
20140401 20:40:39< Dugi> zookeeper: I have complained about that repeatedly around the forums.
20140401 20:41:12< Dugi> zookeeper: Anyway, any idea what might actually be causing it?
20140401 20:41:27< mattsc> AI0867: why don’t you leave it as is for the moment.  I’ll make a local change, and will see how hard it is to update the boost libraries and whether that fixes things.
20140401 20:41:45< AI0867> okay. I'll keep the patch handy though
20140401 20:41:52< mattsc> yes, me too
20140401 20:41:53< zookeeper> Dugi, nope, but surely it's classifiable as a bug if single unit WML that's not actually used by the engine causes slowdowns
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20140401 20:42:03< iceiceice> Dugi: 20140329 16:46:12< gfgtdf> lipkabb: here ar the reults of my profiler: http://i.imgur.com/YETVuNq.png the middle upper image shows the image with scale_surface the other two with scale_surface_sharp.   The down left shows the msvc 2010 sampling profiler results with scale_surface , the right down shows the samplingprofiler results in scale_surface_sharp
20140401 20:43:38< iceiceice> shadowm: yeah... i guess if we had a good linux tool set up it would be a good thing
20140401 20:43:47< mattsc> AI0867: I’ll also send Alarantalara a PM, just in case he tries building before I get to this.
20140401 20:43:48< iceiceice> i dont really know anything about it though
20140401 20:44:28< zookeeper> Dugi, sounds like it'd be easy to make a testcase savefile with some core unit? just dump bogus [advancement]s into it, for example. seems like a weird enough engine behavior that i'd suggest a bug report.
20140401 20:44:33< mordante> Dugi, please post a bug report with a good way how to reproduce the problem
20140401 20:45:24< Dugi> I had a load of them, but that stupid accidental disk format made me lose them all. I'll try to create something...
20140401 20:46:12< Dugi> Is there a way to list attachements in a topic on the forums??
20140401 20:46:14< mordante> Dugi, there may be a real bug, but I'd rather see it reproduced so we can see why the change works
20140401 20:46:31< mordante> best ask shadowm 
20140401 20:46:49< shadowm> No, there isn't.
20140401 20:47:34< shadowm> Purchase a subscription today and your money will be used to support that and other features.
20140401 20:50:14< zookeeper> i have a hard time thinking up reasons why something like that would cause constant slowdown, unless picking/playing standing animations for some reason ends up going through all those advancements doing... something
20140401 20:51:55 * mordante too, that's why I would suspect the code is the symptom of another bug
20140401 20:52:04< mordante> but off for now, bye
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20140401 20:54:50< Dugi> I just realised that even if I found a save file were it would appear, it would not be compatible with any current versions... I'll have to create one.
20140401 20:55:15< gfgtdf> slowdown
20140401 20:55:32< gfgtdf> fc
20140401 20:55:35< gfgtdf> wc*
20140401 20:55:42< gfgtdf> when exaclty did it casue slowdown ?
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20140401 21:01:09< AI0867> hmm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Halstead
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20140401 21:10:49< Dugi_> I have an example save file, I didn't manage to take to the level where it causes FPS drops, but its CPU usage is quite high when the units are on the screen (much lower when they aren't, their standing animations are simple and usually aren't). Where do I upload it (because it causes also bloat, the save file is a megabyte large)?
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20140401 21:16:35< Dugi_> Submitted a bug to gna.
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20140401 21:22:17< AI0867> 22:01 < Coffee_irc> mordante: isn't that a how many artists does it take to change a lightbulb thing :P <-- and how many software engineers?
20140401 21:25:48< Dugi_> Excuse me guys, when I tried to compare it with a negative, the results were the same. I must have misremembered something. Still the save file bloating hurts.
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20140401 23:35:50< gfgtdf> doe any1 know what oes wrong here https://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/jobs/22059834 ?
20140401 23:35:52< gfgtdf> does
20140401 23:35:58< gfgtdf> goes*
20140401 23:40:47< AI0867> looking
20140401 23:41:14< AI0867> looks like network issues. I've restarted that build
20140401 23:42:16< gfgtdf> AI0867: ok ty
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 02 00:00:33 2014