--- Log opened Fri Apr 11 00:00:41 2014
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20140411 01:07:18< iceiceice> hey i have a small complaint about the MP server
20140411 01:07:39< iceiceice> i think there should be a small note in the server login message that any conversation in the mp lobby will be recorded at irclogs.wesnoth.org
20140411 01:08:31< iceiceice> i don't think i realized when i started playing that anything i said there was tracked, it doesn't look like it's mentioned in the code of conduct either
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20140411 02:17:30< happygrue> I think putting something in the CoC would be enough.
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20140411 02:39:39< iceiceice> yeah, i think so too
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20140411 15:26:41< mattsc> iceiceice: did you see the bug report anonymissimus just posted?  So there’s another instance of the animation assert being triggered.
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20140411 15:32:35< iceiceice> i mean whats strange about his bug is he's saying that clicking "play" while the replay is already running actually has an effect
20140411 15:32:54< iceiceice> i would think that would quickly be checked and do nothing
20140411 15:33:07< mattsc> iceiceice: Indeed.  But it does.  I confirrmed it.
20140411 15:33:22< iceiceice> hmm do you know who wrote the replay viewer?
20140411 15:33:31< mattsc> I got it to trigger the assertion by clicking the button while an attack animation was playing.
20140411 15:33:37< mattsc> I don't.
20140411 15:35:59< iceiceice> hmm do you know if this bug is new?
20140411 15:37:45< mattsc> I have no idea, sorry.
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20140411 16:10:41< iceiceice> mattsc: i don't have 1.12 compiled right now, i'm not going to run the test right now myself,
20140411 16:10:47< iceiceice> you might check if it is still bugged on master?
20140411 16:11:24< iceiceice> gfgtdf made a bunch of changes to the replay mechanism that i dont really understand, and it might have fixed this, although i dont think the changes were to the replay controller
20140411 16:11:33< iceiceice> somehow i doubt its the replay controller that's broken though
20140411 16:11:46< iceiceice> i doubt if we can do anything about the assertions,
20140411 16:12:03< iceiceice> in my experience if you ever try to play a replay that goes massively OOS you *will* get segfault / assertion
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20140411 16:12:56< iceiceice> unfortunately replays of saved games are often bugged in 1.10 it seems
20140411 16:13:13< iceiceice> *replays of reloaded
20140411 16:17:02< mattsc> iceiceice: confirmed on 1.11.10, 1.11.12+dev, 1.13.0-dev
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20140411 16:17:55< mattsc> Method: start HttT, let AIs play one turn, save replay, start that replay and hit play turn while one of the AI sides is recruiting.
20140411 16:18:20< iceiceice> ok, let me finish working this other bug report out and i'll try it
20140411 16:20:00< mattsc> Actually, on 1.13.0-dev it triggered a different assert: “Assertion failed: (synced_context::get_syced_state() == synced_context::UNSYNCED), function init, file /mats/misc/Wesnoth/wesnoth/src/synced_context.cpp, line 314.”
20140411 16:24:13< mattsc> iceiceice: I just checked on 1.10.6 and there it is not possible to re-hit the replay buttons while a replay is playing.
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20140411 16:27:25< mattsc> iceiceice: it happened somewhere between 1.11.7 and 1.11.8.
20140411 16:27:51< mattsc> Also between 1.11.7 and 1.11.8 happened this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/2309ee15e0cae765ab690ebe7c0b7d83770fd355
20140411 16:28:04< mattsc> Did I screw this up?  :P
20140411 16:33:22< iceiceice> so i think that you might ahve :p
20140411 16:33:31< iceiceice> theres a function earlier "update_replay_ui"
20140411 16:33:35< iceiceice> you might have needed to change that also
20140411 16:34:07< iceiceice> and some of the functions just below it
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20140411 16:34:39< mattsc> iceiceice: okay - if you (or anybody) knows how to fix this, please go ahead.  Otherwise I’ll look into it, but not for a couple days.
20140411 16:34:51< iceiceice> ok, good job finding it :)
20140411 16:35:00< iceiceice> presuming that that really is it
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20140411 16:36:02< mattsc> Well, i just remembered that I had done something with the replay buttons, so I looked when that happened and checked the release before and after.  That’s really all I’ve done so far.
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20140411 16:45:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 231 bugs, 351 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140411 16:48:39< iceiceice> AI0867: are you running pot updates right now?
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20140411 16:52:28< AI0867> iceiceice: a few hours ago
20140411 16:52:38< AI0867> er, for the UMC on wescamp, that is
20140411 16:52:40< AI0867> not mainline
20140411 16:52:46< iceiceice> oh i see
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20140411 17:06:58< gfgtdf> matsc: you ge an assertion error before getting an OOS error ?
20140411 17:07:20< gfgtdf> mattsc: i think you norrmal should get an OOS error first
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20140411 17:07:55< mattsc> gfgtdf: OOS first, then assert; on 1.13.0-dev at least.
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20140411 17:08:20< mattsc> on 1.11.x, the assert happens first
20140411 17:08:29< gfgtdf> 	mattsc: i assume OOS "found ... while synced_= ..." ?
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20140411 17:09:09< gfgtdf> mattsc: the problem is that you can press te olay button while you shouldnt be able to, in fact you can even press it when it's grey, that a bug in replay_controller i think
20140411 17:09:54< gfgtdf> play*
20140411 17:10:03< mattsc> gfgtdf: yes; and it’s probably caused by the commit I linked to up there
20140411 17:10:06< gfgtdf> te blue buttons in the replay i mean
20140411 17:11:03< gfgtdf> hm ok
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20140411 17:13:23< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i am getting a different error now where blindfolded replays cause oos
20140411 17:13:27< iceiceice> even though skip replays do not ...
20140411 17:13:44< iceiceice> i am bisecting it right now
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20140411 17:14:45< iceiceice> since c0ea446999 fix skip replays part 2,
20140411 17:14:54< iceiceice> you get OOS immediately on joining a game blindfolded
20140411 17:15:14< iceiceice> bu even just before that i think you would still get oos, it just doesnt happen until after the blindfold comes off.
20140411 17:15:20< iceiceice> trying to confirm this second part
20140411 17:15:21< gfgtdf> mattsc: maybe a check for src/mouse_handler_base.hpp ::commands_disabled would be good to check
20140411 17:16:24< gfgtdf> iceiceice: what OOS do you gt exactly ?
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20140411 17:17:08< iceiceice> something like no unit found to move
20140411 17:17:13< iceiceice> or no leader to recruit or osmething like this
20140411 17:17:15< mattsc> gfgtdf: okay.  As I say up there, if you know how to fix it, please don’t hesitate to do so.  I won’t have time for this for at least a couple days.
20140411 17:17:17< iceiceice> it gets massively oos
20140411 17:19:49< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice: so i can reproduce by entering any game bindlodes ?
20140411 17:20:12< iceiceice> on master right i think so
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20140411 17:20:26< iceiceice> however the real test is to actually give control to the blindfolded side
20140411 17:20:36< iceiceice> because i am finding that at some older commits the oos only happens then
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20140411 17:21:08< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice	: so it might also be relatd to your control changing code ?
20140411 17:21:12< AI0867> jamit: time to remove the legacy abilities description stuff in master now?
20140411 17:21:56< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i dont think so because i find it just before the skip replay fix code
20140411 17:21:58< iceiceice> and just after
20140411 17:22:04< iceiceice> both of whcih predate my control changing code
20140411 17:22:30< iceiceice> im compiling the pre 121 commit to see what hte situation was,
20140411 17:22:36< iceiceice> i was pretty sure this was working back then but maybe not
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20140411 17:32:43< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i just teste on 1.11.12 + 121+141 and ewntering bindfolded didnt gave me OOS. or do you taks about something campaign specific ?
20140411 17:33:13< iceiceice> no just host a local game
20140411 17:33:22< iceiceice> hmm wait
20140411 17:33:28< iceiceice> no host a networked game, thats what i ahve been doing
20140411 17:33:36< iceiceice> it can be vs a bot with one human, afaik doesnt matter
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20140411 17:33:46< iceiceice> play a few turns then have an obs join blidnfold
20140411 17:33:48< iceiceice> and try to give control to obs
20140411 17:34:25< gfgtdf> that doenst give me OOS.
20140411 17:34:46< gfgtdf> mabew i should merge 141 so see hether taht fixes teh prolem ?
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20140411 17:36:30< iceiceice> hmm let me just pull 141 i think
20140411 17:36:31< iceiceice> and test there
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20140411 17:50:59< anonymissimus> AI0867: did you run wmlxgettext on Settlers of Wesnoth already ?
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20140411 18:02:08< gfgtdf> iceiceice: if 'fix skip replays part 2' really causes this it might very well be thet 141 fixed that because 141 probebly makes that code unused. But I still wonder how blindfold/skip replays cause OOS since that shoud only have an effect on the visual appearande not in internal calculateions.
20140411 18:03:00< iceiceice> yeah thats what i would have thought but the fact remainss
20140411 18:03:55< AI0867> anonymissimus: I ran it on everything translatable on the 1.12 server
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20140411 18:04:08< AI0867> that is, I ran wescamp.py with the -U option (upload everything)
20140411 18:05:17< gfgtdf> iceiceice: does blindfold cause any additional network sendings ?
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20140411 18:07:07< anonymissimus> AI0867: um, okay, I suppose it ran on it without errors then ? As I uploaded it recently there (with translate=yes)
20140411 18:08:13< iceiceice> no
20140411 18:08:21< iceiceice> blindfold is entirely local
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20140411 18:09:07< anonymissimus> (it's about one of the most challenging addons coding-wise, and also has translatable lua)
20140411 18:09:21< AI0867> anonymissimus: given that it's on there and not in my error log, I presume so
20140411 18:09:29< anonymissimus> but I hope it has a way around that :)
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20140411 18:11:12< gfgtdf> iceiceice: do you tihnk you can give me th message of the first OOS that appears and the callstack of that ?
20140411 18:11:36< iceiceice> i just pulled and compiled 141:
20140411 18:11:44< iceiceice> i got oos as soon as the blindfold player enters the game 
20140411 18:11:45< iceiceice> it says
20140411 18:12:03< iceiceice> calculated movement destination didn't match the original destination
20140411 18:12:17< iceiceice> this happens on turn 4 out of 8 while blindfold is still applied
20140411 18:12:28< iceiceice> i.e. before the obs has been given control
20140411 18:12:35< iceiceice> so just as soon as i click to joint he game basically
20140411 18:14:09< gfgtdf> iceiceice: wa that an AI move ?
20140411 18:14:19< gfgtdf> was*
20140411 18:14:40< iceiceice> its playing the entire replay
20140411 18:14:44< iceiceice> there was an ai player
20140411 18:15:01< iceiceice> i gues actually hte status bar says "red turn 4"
20140411 18:15:03< iceiceice> so its on my turn i think
20140411 18:15:08< gfgtdf> iceiceice: wairt does bimdfodl maybe confuse vilibilty calcualtion ?
20140411 18:15:10< iceiceice> but in the replay
20140411 18:15:13< iceiceice> yes it does
20140411 18:15:23< iceiceice> do i need to find a different implementation?
20140411 18:15:31< gfgtdf> iceiceice: invalid visuibility calcualtion = OOS
20140411 18:15:38< iceiceice> ok that is new thoguh
20140411 18:15:43< iceiceice> it worked before 121
20140411 18:15:50< gfgtdf> for example if the movement is stopped due to emey sightings, and teh replay didnt calulate that
20140411 18:15:58< gfgtdf> the repaly will get OOS
20140411 18:16:01< iceiceice> ok
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20140411 18:16:10< iceiceice> so the onyl reason i changed visibility at all
20140411 18:16:19< iceiceice> is because i could not find a way to disable the stupid elipses
20140411 18:16:22< iceiceice> of units
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20140411 18:16:31< iceiceice> they will draw themselves on top of shroud
20140411 18:16:36< iceiceice> even if the rest of the unit is not drawn
20140411 18:16:43< iceiceice> i.e. the orb health bar and xp bar
20140411 18:17:09< iceiceice> i thoguht that this would be innocuous but if you are making OOS more rigorous then i will find a better method for blindfold i think
20140411 18:18:08< gfgtdf> iceiceice: the oldimplementation also had teh drawback that for exmaple another player woudn't notie if one player changes teh unit moes with like ':unit move = 20'
20140411 18:18:16< gfgtdf> notice*
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20140411 18:21:52< iceiceice> i mean debug mode doesnt need to be synced i dont think
20140411 18:23:48< gfgtdf> iceiceice: no teh problem was the the onyl implementation was that players coudl cheat easily with that
20140411 18:24:18< gfgtdf> seding invalid n moves without teh other player checking it.
20140411 18:24:49< iceiceice> i dont understand
20140411 18:25:03< iceiceice> i thought replays already go out of sync if there is an invalid move
20140411 18:26:54< gfgtdf> iceiceice: no tey dont
20140411 18:26:59< gfgtdf> we they go aftere 121
20140411 18:27:05< gfgtdf> s/we/well
20140411 18:27:26< gfgtdf> that means if itv ery invaluid lake movinf a unexoistetn unit they even got OOS befreo
20140411 18:27:28< iceiceice> no i know for a fact that i've seen replays go out of sync in 1.10 if a unit didn't have enough move points to do it or something
20140411 18:27:50< gfgtdf> iceiceice: then i tihnk ths changes during 1.11
20140411 18:27:57< gfgtdf> thats*
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20140411 18:28:34< iceiceice> hmm 
20140411 18:29:00< iceiceice> im trying to remember what i saw now, maybe it was only "no source for movement found"
20140411 18:29:08< gfgtdf> here he code that disables teh check durign replays: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/actions/move.cpp#L753
20140411 18:29:14< iceiceice> you're saying we didnt check if units had enough movement points to do the move?
20140411 18:29:19< iceiceice> until your patch?
20140411 18:29:23< gfgtdf> is_replay_ in always false after 121
20140411 18:30:30< iceiceice> really?
20140411 18:30:54< iceiceice> why is it always false?
20140411 18:31:45< gfgtdf> iceiceice: why sould it be not false ? 
20140411 18:31:55< gfgtdf> why shoudl we calcualte diffently durign replays ?
20140411 18:31:59< iceiceice> ok...
20140411 18:32:05< iceiceice> i agree with the bheavior that would result in
20140411 18:32:13< iceiceice> but if thats the case you should remove is_replay_ from the code
20140411 18:32:19< iceiceice> because ti will just confuse someone
20140411 18:32:24< iceiceice> its not like any of this code is actually documented
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20140411 18:34:19< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but the real reason why i changed that is differnt: Storing where teh move end is required changing teh replay data after teh move has endend, this in incompatible with 121 becasue we can now send the action over teh network as soon as we know its not undoable, like when a rand = call appears durign a enter_hex event this cannot be undone and we sond teh move over teh network...
20140411 18:34:21< gfgtdf> ...immediately
20140411 18:35:28< gfgtdf> iceiceice: becasue in thsi case teh changes value wouldnt be sended over teh network.
20140411 18:35:50< iceiceice> ok i dont disagre with the logic
20140411 18:36:05< iceiceice> but i think i do disagree with having a variable in the code named something like "is_replay_"
20140411 18:36:11< iceiceice> which is actually a constant basically
20140411 18:36:24< iceiceice> you see my point?
20140411 18:37:30< iceiceice> right so right now mattsc might try to fix his replay button issue, and if he sees "is_replay_" in the code he might think, quite logically, that checking that will tell him if hes in a replay... apparently it did exactly this for the last like 8 years
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20140411 18:38:18< iceiceice> i think if you dont want code to depend on is_replay_ should just refactor and get rid of it entirely
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20140411 18:38:40< gfgtdf> iceiceice: is_replay_ is an internal variable durign moves. yes i didnt removed it when i disabled it, becasue i want 100% sure whether that'd work, and i wanted to ask jamit or anyone who know smore about that code about optinion, already did that. And i think we can remove it
20140411 18:38:50< iceiceice> ok
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20140411 18:59:57< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ok i just tested and in 1.10.6 cou get OOS in 1.11.11 you dont with your unit has more moves that others.
20140411 19:00:02< gfgtdf> you*
20140411 19:00:24< iceiceice> more moves than others what?
20140411 19:00:36< iceiceice> you mean if you change it in debug mode?
20140411 19:00:43< gfgtdf> iceiceice: if you change your units moves with :unit moves=9
20140411 19:00:50< iceiceice> yeah that doesnt surprise me at all
20140411 19:00:59< iceiceice> is there any part of debug mode that is synced?
20140411 19:01:21< iceiceice> in 1.10 i mean, i guess maybe you synced all of it now
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20140411 19:01:34< gfgtdf> iceiceice: well in 1.11.11 it does not casue OOS. But in 1.10 it does and i dont know the cod ethat changes that so it suprises me
20140411 19:01:47< gfgtdf> iceiceice: no i ditn sync debug commnds
20140411 19:01:57< iceiceice> hmm
20140411 19:02:00< iceiceice> well thats strange
20140411 19:02:04< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but i might do it when i have time, 
20140411 19:02:47< gfgtdf> ofc players will get a messaeg when another used debug coommands
20140411 19:02:57< gfgtdf> that are synced
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20140411 19:05:43< id_steamhater> Hi there! I'm the community representative for a russian site <wesnothlife.ru>. I've recently gathered a round of questions our community members would like to ask you. Can anyone of the Development team spare me a few minutes of time?
20140411 19:06:35< gfgtdf> just aks and see who answers you.
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20140411 19:16:56< gfgtdf> mattsc: in 2309ee15e0cae765ab690ebe7c0b7d83770fd355, is there a special reason why oyu made 'return true' instead of 'return result' if you case didnt match ?
20140411 19:18:35< mattsc> gfgtdf: Oversight?  Ignorance?  General incompetence?  Pick one.  :P
20140411 19:18:38< gfgtdf> mattsc: ^ forget it
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20140411 19:19:26< gfgtdf> mattsc: i think it might be another commit.
20140411 19:19:55< mattsc> gfgtdf: okay - I haven’t had time to give it another thought yet.
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20140411 19:23:39< AI0867> id_steamhater: generally, it's best to just ask questions, and people tend to answer eventually
20140411 19:24:25< AI0867> even if you're trying to reach a specific person, because you know they're the area expert, the usual way to ask is still to adress them in this channel
20140411 19:24:45< AI0867> they may not be here, but most tend to read the logs
20140411 19:25:16< id_steamhater> Okay. Let me begin with some general questions.
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20140411 19:25:50< id_steamhater> 1) What do you plan to implement in 1.13, except of moving to SDL2?
20140411 19:28:17< id_steamhater> 2) I've seen some Steam integration-related topics at the forums; however, the views expressed by different developers seems controversial. In general, what is your opinion about using Steam as a distribution and update platform?
20140411 19:29:05< id_steamhater> I also have some graphic-related questions.
20140411 19:29:22< id_steamhater> Do you plan to continue adding fulltime animation to more units?
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20140411 19:29:55< id_steamhater> Maybe, some weather effects?
20140411 19:30:04< gfgtdf> id_steamhater: 1.13 is a dev version, there are not that much changes yet because the feature freeze was just some time ago.
20140411 19:31:18< id_steamhater> gfgtdf: thanks for the clarification, but I meant the entire 1.13 branch, not the single version (1.13.0, 1.13.1, etc). I mean, what do you want to implement over the course of 1.13.x development?
20140411 19:32:50< iceiceice> steamhater: the closest thing to a general policy session is the wesnoth group at the fossdem conference. they make wiki pages about the discussion results: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Fosdem2014
20140411 19:33:15< zookeeper> the plan is to have all units (with very few if any exceptions) fully animated, including standing animations
20140411 19:33:38< iceiceice> you would have a better idea what we plan to implement if you look at what GSoC projects are accepted i suppose
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20140411 19:34:42< iceiceice> or at what things are assigned / marked "postponed" in the bugtracker
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20140411 19:38:17< iceiceice> regarding steam: i dont think there is any consensus, or further discussion beyond the forum post you mention, but i could be wrong
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20140411 19:39:56< id_steamhater> iceiceice: I mean there's many topics, but with different views and opinions. But it's certain that we'll not see Wesnoth on Steam until at least 1.14, isn't it?
20140411 19:40:10< iceiceice> i could be wrong about this as well, but it isn't even necessarily a "dev group" issue. as i understand since the whole game is free and GPL, someone could just take it upon themself to submit it to greenlight, or fork it and start integrating with steam and then submit it to greenlight. iiuc this is more or less how the android / ios ports have worked
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20140411 19:40:22< id_steamhater> I also have some balance suggestions from our members. Is it appropriate to ask them here or I'd better do it on the forums? (although I suspect it's even FPI)
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20140411 19:45:22< vultraz> I personally think an independently-maintained fork of Wesnoth for steam would be less effective than the entire project going in that direction
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20140411 19:48:30< iceiceice> i personally would be opposed to forcing users to use steam to play wesnoth. but not to allowing users who have steam to get wesnoth through steam.
20140411 19:49:03< id_steamhater> One more question. Do you plan to integrate Eclipse plugin's functionality (such as basic scenario editor) into ingame map editor?
20140411 19:49:17< gfgtdf> mattsc: im very sure not that this is an UI think unrelated to replays. In fact you can get the same error in 1.10.6 just noth with pressing the buttons but with pressing the hotleys.
20140411 19:49:51< gfgtdf> that the change from 1.10 to 1.11.x was an UI think the underlaying bug is still a replay_controller thing
20140411 19:49:55< gfgtdf> thing*
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20140411 19:50:54< vultraz> iceiceice: what's wrong with moving to steam as a distribution platform? It's not like it costs users anything to make an account
20140411 19:52:18< id_steamhater> but what to to with those who wish to use development or even nightly versions of BfW?
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20140411 19:53:31< iceiceice> vultraz: its not FOSS, it is proprietary software with limited privacy guarantees, i think many people who use linux and play wesnoth would really not want to install it
20140411 19:53:49< iceiceice> i'm not talking about abstract people, these are actual people in the community who play the game
20140411 19:54:48< gfgtdf> mattsc: if i try a patch could you test it ?
20140411 19:55:19< iceiceice> idk i dont see why we would move to an exclusive distribution platform
20140411 19:55:20< mattsc> gfgtdf: of course, but not right now
20140411 19:55:31< iceiceice> it woudl be like if we just decided not to support some operating systems
20140411 19:55:58< iceiceice> for that matter would it break the android / ioS ports? i somewhat doubt you can install steam on those, but i could be wrong i guess
20140411 19:57:56< id_steamhater> i don't think that Steam integration would break compatibility with other OS's. AFAIK, it's up to developers to decide should they drop support for non-Steam versions of the game.
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20140411 19:58:56< id_steamhater> i mean, the game may exist and run separately from Steam. Steam package would just need some extra DLLs for integration, AFAIK.
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20140411 19:59:11< iceiceice> ok maybe we are talking about different things
20140411 19:59:37< iceiceice> i looked at the steam FAQ, it says that there are many special steam API calls you should use for sending chat messages, using a steam lobby to find games, etc.
20140411 20:00:05< iceiceice> full integration would mean we would drop all our existing code that does these things
20140411 20:00:09< iceiceice> and use the steam API instead
20140411 20:00:55< iceiceice> it is not mandatory that we do this, but if it isn't a fork then i guess no one can use these things unless they have steam
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20140411 20:02:45< iceiceice> vultraz: i would guess if we wanted to maintain the fork, we would have like a "master+steam" branch
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20140411 20:05:10< id_steamhater> okay, thanks for the clarification.
20140411 20:05:21< id_steamhater> One more question. Do you plan to integrate Eclipse plugin's functionality (such as basic scenario editor) into ingame map editor?
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20140411 20:11:51< iceiceice> vultraz: maybe i'm wrong about it being a branch, i guess we use different systems to deliver notifications, depending what platform you are on, using compiler directives. so maybe thats the proper way. and release scripts would use an option to compile this way if desired i guess
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20140411 20:12:12< iceiceice> but it still doesnt address the problem, we probably would want steam clients and nonsteam clients to be able to chat to eachother.
20140411 20:12:40< iceiceice> so somehow our server would have to mediate between the two systems i guess
20140411 20:12:56< gfgtdf> mattsc: think i have a ptach ready but idk whether that patch works without prp 141 and there is still a little toto in pr 141.
20140411 20:12:58< iceiceice> thats why i would say its a lot of work
20140411 20:13:29< iceiceice> to do a full steam integration
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20140411 20:21:00< vultraz> iceiceice: well, true
20140411 20:21:17< vultraz> I've been wondering how Steam accounts would work with Wesnoth accounts
20140411 20:21:32< vultraz> Plus there's the matters of addons, and their authors...
20140411 20:21:51< id_steamhater> i guess it's possible to merge MP accounts with Steam accounts.
20140411 20:22:08< iceiceice> if i understand Steam provides all this stuff to replace the add-on manager, the forums, chatting...
20140411 20:22:18< iceiceice> would you also want to migrate all the forums to Steam?
20140411 20:22:25< vultraz> Well, no
20140411 20:22:44< vultraz> I'd say maintain the forums ourselves
20140411 20:23:09< vultraz> Even Dota has its own forums despite being the most popular game on Steam
20140411 20:23:16< iceiceice> it seems to me there's very little benefit to integrating with steam if you already have a working established system
20140411 20:23:22< iceiceice> it seems like its there to support new games
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20140411 20:23:38< vultraz> I think it'd be good outreach
20140411 20:23:47< vultraz> I mean, really, what advertising do we do? :P
20140411 20:23:59< iceiceice> i agree we should be available on steam to people who might want to play
20140411 20:24:15< iceiceice> but i'm just saying it makes a lot more sense if its just distribution
20140411 20:24:19< iceiceice> and we keep all our existing infrastructure
20140411 20:24:57< vultraz> Steam accounts should be used for MP matters, at least.
20140411 20:25:05< iceiceice> i guess some users dont like our mp friends features or whatever but idk who is willing to spend hours migrating it all over
20140411 20:25:28< iceiceice> vultraz: but then how do we make it compatible for people who dont use steam
20140411 20:26:03< vultraz> Two options:
20140411 20:26:20< vultraz> A: make Wesnoth available exclusively on Steam
20140411 20:26:42< vultraz> B: do what we do now with mp accounts and keep Steam and related accounts as their own thing
20140411 20:27:11< iceiceice> it sounds to me like in principle, we could even today submit wesnoth 1.10 to steam greenlight and see what happens
20140411 20:27:23< iceiceice> if accepted, people would be able to see it and download it through steam
20140411 20:27:25< vultraz> You mean 1.12?
20140411 20:27:29< iceiceice> no, 1.10
20140411 20:27:34< vultraz> Why 1.10
20140411 20:27:36< iceiceice> 1.12 isn't out yet
20140411 20:27:42< iceiceice> i'm saying *even today*
20140411 20:27:53< vultraz> Well, it'll be out soon
20140411 20:28:02< vultraz> AH
20140411 20:28:03< vultraz> Ah*
20140411 20:28:20< vultraz> True
20140411 20:28:27< iceiceice> it sounds like if we just want to do outreach / provide additional distribution we could submit what we have right now
20140411 20:28:33< iceiceice> and people would be able to see it and download it
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20140411 20:28:43< iceiceice> they would have to register on wesnoth forums to get a registered account,
20140411 20:28:49< vultraz> We could use it as a "testing-the-waters" thing. There are  manygames on Steam which don't use all its features
20140411 20:28:50< iceiceice> maybe there coudl be some kind of automatic linking i guess
20140411 20:29:12< iceiceice> y and then we could see what happens
20140411 20:29:26< vultraz> And many games that do require third party accounts anyway
20140411 20:29:47< vultraz> (For example, I had to make a square enix account to play Tomb Raider)
20140411 20:30:10< iceiceice> y i think its pretty reasonable
20140411 20:31:35< vultraz> But I do think if such a thing were to be done it should be 1.12 that is submitted, once it's released. 1.10 is simply too old to be of reasonable representation of the game, especially graphics-wise.
20140411 20:31:45< iceiceice> yeah for sure
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20140411 20:33:11< iceiceice> i mean ideally if there are actually many steam users who want to play wesnoth through steam, someone among them will want to help develop the interface if they really want to be able to use steam chat and steam friends seamlessly in wesnoth
20140411 20:33:16< iceiceice> but i doubt if that will be a deal breaker for anyone
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20140411 20:34:36< vultraz> Integration with steam might also bring about a unified account scheme for Wesnoth too. Having your addons and addon reviews and game history and completed campaigns and stuff tied to one account.
20140411 20:35:03< vultraz> Which, TBH, would solve a bunch of issues
20140411 20:35:34< vultraz> Especially if RiftWalker's SP/MP unification project gets accepted
20140411 20:35:52< iceiceice> i mean wesnoth only have one account scheme, right/
20140411 20:36:03< iceiceice> its just the dev aspects that are fragmented among github, gna, forums
20140411 20:36:12< vultraz> Well...
20140411 20:36:15< vultraz> Yes.
20140411 20:36:35< vultraz> But the MP accounts are fragmented as well
20140411 20:36:50< iceiceice> how?
20140411 20:36:51< vultraz> Addons are also their own thing
20140411 20:37:39< vultraz> iceiceice: well, I'm not sure if you log in to mp with a forum account it's different from a random account - it might be, but I'm not the person to ask.
20140411 20:37:54< iceiceice> i mean there are unregistered and registered accounts
20140411 20:38:04< vultraz> I just think a "game profile" thing with all your stuff collected under it would be good.
20140411 20:38:35< iceiceice> sure
20140411 20:39:58< vultraz> Might want to post the 1.12-on-greenlight suggestion on the dev forum, see what other people think
20140411 20:40:21< vultraz> It's a possibility. if it doesn't work out we won't have lost anything :P
20140411 20:42:34< iceiceice> y i mean, no one has disagreed that it's a nobrainer in the other thread so far
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20140411 20:42:42< iceiceice> on the steam faq it says we would have to pay $100 to submit
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20140411 20:42:52< iceiceice> so i guess whoever manages wesnoth finances would have to figure out about that
20140411 20:43:27< vultraz> I think noy has something to do with that, and jetrel.
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20140411 20:49:44< happygrue> which thread?
20140411 20:50:10< iceiceice> there's a thread "steam greenlight #2"
20140411 20:50:22< iceiceice> in user's forum
20140411 20:50:26< happygrue> ah
20140411 20:50:28< happygrue> okay
20140411 20:52:18< vultraz> could always post the suggestion there too
20140411 20:52:21< vultraz> anyway im off
20140411 20:52:31< vultraz> hopefully this goes somewhere
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20140411 20:58:06< happygrue> if steam is a go, then is there anywhere we wouldn't want to distribute?  Do we hit up GoG?  Others?
20140411 20:58:55< happygrue> ratings:  what happens if there is some problem with how things work with steam (say steam related bugs) and people decide to rate the game very low - then maybe we get the wrong kind of attention?
20140411 20:59:16< happygrue> or maybe it's a good thing.  Personally, I have a number of things on steam and I *mostly* hate it
20140411 20:59:29< happygrue> with the exception being trying to play something with friends, who are also on steam
20140411 21:00:31< happygrue> so games could be launched via the steam buddy system then that seems like something a lot of people would be interested in using.
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20140411 21:00:49< happygrue> I'm not sure why anyone would want to get the game through steam to play single player though.
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20140411 21:02:13< happygrue> well, I say that, but maybe if they could keep the game up to date that way it could be "less hassle" for some people.  That said, there seem like a lot of nontrivial things that would need to happen to make Wesnoth available on steam and have it all just work smoothly.
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20140411 21:06:39< mattsc> gfgtdf: Unfortunately, I won’t be able to do this today (and the weekend doesn’t look great either if it involves pulling PRs etc.)
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20140411 21:07:15< mattsc> gfgtdf: can’t you test it yourself?  It is really super simple. 
20140411 21:07:51< mattsc> Not trying to put extra work on you, but it might be less work for you to test it than to explain to me how to do it.  :P
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20140411 21:09:07< gfgtdf> mattsc: i have tested my patch on 1.11.12+dev and it works there. Idk wethe i  have time to compile 1.13 today.
20140411 21:09:13< gfgtdf> I tihnk you knwo how to test it ?
20140411 21:09:17< gfgtdf> know*
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20140411 21:09:35< mattsc> yes
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20140411 21:11:15< gfgtdf> mattsc: i used these commits: https://github.com/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/commit/a8dc92f5d67690a1837e4e1008bc19c0af1d26f4 https://github.com/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/commit/9017fe82da6b62b40f6839764b023160252e0496
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20140411 21:13:27< mattsc> So if you have tested it, what do you want me to do?
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20140411 21:14:39< gfgtdf> mattsc: i have onyl tested on 1.11, nt on 1.13
20140411 21:15:11< mattsc> but you said doing so would include pulling in open PRs?  Or have they been merged?
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20140411 21:16:31< gfgtdf> mattsc: i think i have completed  pr 141 and will merge it soon, both 2 commits abote are part of pr 141. Just one of them was event there before i know of this problem
20140411 21:16:51< mattsc> I see.
20140411 21:17:58< mattsc> gfgtdf: Okay, well, as I said, I don’t have time for Wesnoth any more today, and only limited time this weekend, but let me know when it is ready to be tested and what I should do then.  I’ll get to it eventually.
20140411 21:18:04< mattsc> Thanks for working on this.
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20140411 21:19:36< id_steamhater> Looks like my appearance here provoked a discussion :)
20140411 21:21:58< happygrue> bringing things into the spotlight has a way of doing that ;)
20140411 21:23:10< id_steamhater> Okay, thanks for your replies :) It was a pleasure talking with you, and I'll return soon (soon = between this day and HL3 release date) with a new bunch of questions. Thanks again, and have a nice weekend!
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20140411 21:23:46< happygrue> o/
20140411 21:24:13< AI0867> id_steamhater: 1) we rarely make big plans ahead of time. The SDL2 stuff plus the GSoC projects (if they succeed) is pretty much all that's actually planned
20140411 21:24:23< happygrue> shadowm: I had not seen your history of wesnoth stuff before, but I have read one page and I love it already!
20140411 21:24:42< AI0867> various developers may have plans of their own though
20140411 21:24:56< id_steamhater> AI0867: Thanks for the reply. I'll keep that in mind.
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20140411 21:27:12< gfgtdf> happygrue: what is this hostry of wesnoth stuff ?
20140411 21:27:31< AI0867> 2) well, as I said on the forum, I don't know how much work would be involved. I wouldn't be opposed to an extra distribution platform, but we'd have to be accepted first
20140411 21:27:41< zookeeper> urgh. steam is nice for MP stuff, _if_ the game is fully integrated. if i still have to make a separate account for a steam game, then that's just infuriating.
20140411 21:28:12< AI0867> 3) animations are added as they're made. They're made whenever artists feel like it.
20140411 21:28:31< happygrue> gfgtdf: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29542
20140411 21:28:49< AI0867> as for weather effects, I believe there was a rain effect on some UMC scenario once, but it was removed because it was too CPU-intensive
20140411 21:28:59< happygrue> it's old now, and doesn't go too far, but it's a great look at the start of the game, and really interesting
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20140411 21:31:09< zookeeper> weather effects would just complicate the game in fundamental ways which we couldn't re-balance everything for. if they'd only be visual effects then sure, but that's a lot of work for little gain and a huge performance drop (atm anyway).
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20140411 21:40:36< happygrue> I agree zookeeper, though suddenly I want to see a custom ToD that includes some weather impacted days popping into the cycle randomly for a campaign :D
20140411 21:41:17< happygrue> afternoon... but it's raining and itsn't light out!
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20140411 21:42:25< gfgtdf> iceiceice: do you have a plan for teh blingfold thing ?
20140411 21:43:21 * c74d imagines a blindfold made of gold.
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20140411 21:44:52< gfgtdf> ?
20140411 21:44:54< AI0867> if we get proper hardware accelleration going though, weather overlays become a lot more feasible
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20140411 21:46:38< irker807> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth:master 70322185d457 / data/core/team-colors.cfg: Restored lightred and darkred TC http://git.io/7XZjNA
20140411 21:47:13< bumbadadabum> why did someone remove them in the first place
20140411 21:47:19< c74d> gfgtdf: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bling>
20140411 21:47:20< bumbadadabum> they were nice team colors
20140411 21:48:03< c74d> Wasn’t lightred the same as pink?
20140411 21:48:33< c74d> Or am I misremembering?
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20140411 21:49:16< shadowm> !log 1e5d58af6a5143f37cd1768f4967bac5b075ccaa @ bumbadadabum 
20140411 21:49:18< shikadibot> bumbadadabum: Revision 1e5d58af6a51 (fendrin) on Sat Mar 15 13:36:48 2014:
20140411 21:49:21< shikadibot> bumbadadabum: Made the orb and minimap colors configurable by the preferences.
20140411 21:49:25< shikadibot> bumbadadabum: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/1e5d58af6a51
20140411 21:50:06< bumbadadabum> shadowm: So all the colors would need to be referred to as "orbx_color" instead of the colro?
20140411 21:50:08< bumbadadabum> *color
20140411 21:50:38< shadowm> I don't know what that's supposed to mean and it's not my commit anyway.
20140411 21:50:44< bumbadadabum> even for team coloring on the minimap
20140411 21:50:46< bumbadadabum> and unit sprites
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20140411 21:51:39< travis-ci> [travis-ci] gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#80 (sync_fix - 9017fe8 : gfgtdf): The build passed.
20140411 21:51:39< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/22805513
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20140411 21:53:29< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 5ffd7aebfd36 / src/ (playmp_controller.cpp playturn.cpp playturn.hpp): fix currently active side quits during action http://git.io/SO5tVA
20140411 21:53:31< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master a8dc92f5d676 / src/ (synced_context.cpp synced_context.hpp): use events::command_disabler in synced context http://git.io/ExFphA
20140411 21:53:33< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 6ce4e441a2db / src/ (replay.cpp replay.hpp synced_context.cpp): removed unused 'do_until' argument http://git.io/eOYQ_g
20140411 21:53:35< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 22d17ba4ddd9 / src/ (playmp_controller.cpp playturn.cpp playturn.hpp): remove unused argument http://git.io/bEwgQA
20140411 21:53:37< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master d1cd2e0b171c / src/ (6 files): give do_replays return a better name http://git.io/aF23ng
20140411 21:53:39< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 847067dac722 / src/ (9 files): fix bug chat during action http://git.io/U_UaKw
20140411 21:53:41< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master e1a5bb89dc93 / src/replay.cpp: disable get_user_choice during prestart events http://git.io/_z_MWw
20140411 21:53:43< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master c9552c9a33a1 / src/ (persist_var.cpp replay.cpp replay.hpp scripting/lua.cpp): allow user_choice in prestart for invisible choices http://git.io/O-d0Kw
20140411 21:53:45< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 4765b33f5894 / src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): add side parameter in sync_choice http://git.io/rdwH2Q
20140411 21:53:47< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 9017fe82da6b / src/replay_controller.cpp: fix 21905 http://git.io/4CJCkg
20140411 21:53:49< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master f6fbfb6879c2 / src/ (18 files in 4 dirs): Merge pull request #141 from gfgtdf/sync_fix http://git.io/9aaXdQ
20140411 21:55:56< gfgtdf> mattsc: i merged (amongst other commits) a patch for what you said earlier.
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20140411 21:58:49< mattsc> gfgtdf: okay, cool - so all I’d have to do is build and test whether that fixes the replay button issue?
20140411 21:59:02< gfgtdf> yes
20140411 21:59:55< mattsc> okay - maybe I can do that later tonight, as it is mostly just the computer doing its thing …
20140411 22:00:17< c74d> Has everyone changed their passwords and client certificates? (If anyone other than me uses client certificates…)
20140411 22:01:15-!- Upthorn [ogmar@108-85-91-228.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140411 22:02:06-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20140411 22:02:39< c74d> And, changed them after 17:00 UTC, which is about when freenode’s certificates were changed.
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20140411 22:20:25< gfgtdf> is there a way to get the binarie fromm travis
20140411 22:21:08< matthiaskrgr> I dont think so 
20140411 22:21:17< matthiaskrgr> at least I dont know for travis.org
20140411 22:21:26< matthiaskrgr> maybe there is a way to upload them with curl to somewhere
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20140411 22:33:44< irker807> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 627c5a9c5c6e / src/replay.cpp: use const config& for value check http://git.io/bq8S1w
20140411 22:35:03< Coffee_irc> hi
20140411 22:35:42< Coffee_irc> just having a look at a forum post about a tournament and some balance changes for a pick your units thing
20140411 22:35:58< Coffee_irc> 2 changes might make sense to adopt for balance purpose
20140411 22:36:46< Coffee_irc> mudcrawler might get the elemental trait (similar to our fire guardian) and pirate galleon becomes chaotic (all ships are currently lawful)
20140411 22:37:08< Coffee_irc> I'm thinking for 1.13
20140411 22:39:04< Coffee_irc> the mudcrawler line is used in a few campaigns (non of which would be significantly affected), but there is a 2p MP map with them as well as starting units
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20140411 22:42:55< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: isn't 'pick your units thing' an umc addon ? i think in umc you can easily replace those units especiyly with base_unit.
20140411 22:45:29< Coffee_irc> gfgtdf: yes, but these changes make sense to me to potentially adopt for default units
20140411 22:46:19< Coffee_irc> for consistency with the elemental trait and I think the lawful pirate ship might have been because all the other ships are lawful
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20140411 22:51:10< gfgtdf> iceiceice : i merged 141, do you have a plan on how to solve the blindfold issue ?
20140411 22:51:13< iceiceice> gfgtdf: my plan for blindfold is basically that i will change where the shroud test occurs
20140411 22:51:41< iceiceice> its a bit unfortuante the way the code is structured now, the stuff that defines vision is sort of spread all over
20140411 22:51:57< zookeeper> elemental for mudcrawlers sounds ok
20140411 22:52:38< iceiceice> i'm basically going to try to make it so that the hexes and units are shrouded for purposes of drawing but nothing else
20140411 22:53:18< zookeeper> ships should maybe just all be neutral instead, i dunno
20140411 22:53:38< iceiceice> Coffee_irc: so i will say this, it makes sense for pyra that the pirate ship is chaotic, it makes it more useful
20140411 22:53:44< Coffee_irc> zookeeper: it's hard to see where you are going or meeting at night :)
20140411 22:53:45< iceiceice> but i dont think it makes a ton of sense
20140411 22:53:55< iceiceice> yeah managing a giant boat at night is really hard
20140411 22:54:06< Coffee_irc> it moves 1 hex less though
20140411 22:54:22< Coffee_irc> maybe because it likes to move under cover of darkness :P
20140411 22:54:42< iceiceice> maybe if it was a ghost ship :p
20140411 22:55:09< Coffee_irc> ok, lawful is starting to makes sense then
20140411 22:55:47< Coffee_irc> but it's about the attack isn't it
20140411 22:56:02< Coffee_irc> buy which point (night) they would already be in position to fire the ballistas
20140411 22:56:19< iceiceice> idk i always thought it was all around effectiveness
20140411 22:56:26< iceiceice> its not like spearmans' spears are less pointy at night
20140411 22:56:42< iceiceice> you probly know better than me what the rationalizations for all of this are :)
20140411 22:56:43< AI0867> gfgtdf: well, we can have travis upload the binary somewhere as a step in the build process
20140411 22:56:53< AI0867> but we also have jenkins on our own server
20140411 22:56:58< Coffee_irc> iceiceice: it's been some time since I was last a pirate
20140411 22:57:02< AI0867> which already produces cross-compiled windows binaries
20140411 22:57:06< iceiceice> haha
20140411 22:57:54< gfgtdf> AI0867: when does that rebuild ?
20140411 22:57:59< AI0867> every day
20140411 22:58:08< gfgtdf> at a special time ?
20140411 22:58:30< AI0867> UTC morning
20140411 22:58:35< AI0867> http://wesnoth.org:8080/job/Wesnoth/
20140411 23:00:51< gfgtdf> AI0867: do i have to login to donload ?
20140411 23:01:17< AI0867> probably
20140411 23:01:44< gfgtdf> AI0867: can i loginf wth any of the wesnoth accounts i have or do i have to mkae another account ?
20140411 23:01:48< gfgtdf> with*
20140411 23:02:06< gfgtdf> ah with git it sems
20140411 23:02:50< AI0867> github
20140411 23:03:27< iceiceice> does the pirate ship occur in any mainline stuff?
20140411 23:03:51< iceiceice> i never played dead water, do the mermaids have to fight a navy at some point or is it just undead
20140411 23:04:00< zookeeper> nope
20140411 23:04:06< gfgtdf> AI0867: ok, now i only need to find a download button.
20140411 23:04:15< zookeeper> i think SotBE only has galleons, too
20140411 23:04:21< zookeeper> or at least pirate ships wouldn't make any sense
20140411 23:04:32< zookeeper> and... there's no ships elsewhere IIRC
20140411 23:05:11< zookeeper> yup, no matches for "pirate"
20140411 23:09:51< AI0867> gfgtdf: 'workspace'
20140411 23:11:18< gfgtdf> AI0867: ty i found, is there a list of dll's i need to run it ?
20140411 23:13:49< gfgtdf> s/dll's/dlls
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20140411 23:15:17< AI0867> gfgtdf: I don't know
20140411 23:16:40< gfgtdf> AI0867: i assume the dlls shiped with offical dwnloadable wesnoth will to the job.
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20140411 23:17:33< AI0867> probably
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20140411 23:28:53< gfgtdf> iceiceice: how did you chnge the vision calculation ? i mean it seems like you didnt change team.cpp or vision.cpp
20140411 23:29:12< iceiceice> i tried to do it all in display
20140411 23:29:20< iceiceice> but for reasons i said earlier you cant really do that
20140411 23:29:26< iceiceice> i think i had to change osmething in unit.cpp
20140411 23:29:36< iceiceice> maybe itw as in team.cpp though
20140411 23:29:45< iceiceice> you can look at my commit 
20140411 23:40:03< gfgtdf> hm ok i saw, but it should be fixable by just moving  the check up the call stack no?
20140411 23:41:49< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ^
20140411 23:44:54< iceiceice> AI0867: wait, the description of the PR doesn't enter the repo?
20140411 23:45:03< iceiceice> i thought it became the commit message of the merge commit associated
20140411 23:45:28< iceiceice> if thats wrong i have to update my wiki page http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Git_for_Wesnoth_Crash_Course#Making_a_pull_request
20140411 23:45:52< gfgtdf> iceiceice: you can choose teh commit message of teh merge commits when you click teh button.
20140411 23:46:06< gfgtdf> the*
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20140411 23:46:28< iceiceice> hmm i dont know how i got confused about this
20140411 23:47:27< gfgtdf> iceiceice: by default the pr title becomes the commit details,  and teh commti title is "merge .."
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20140411 23:52:56< Coffee_irc> ok, I figure I'll add the elemental trait to the mudcrawler line in 1.13.x+dev
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 12 00:00:01 2014