--- Log opened Thu Apr 24 00:00:23 2014
20140424 00:01:19< gfgtdf> iceiceice: my assumtion was that game::update_side_data gets maybe confused because it canno fidn a player with the name 'Anynymous local player'
20140424 00:01:34< iceiceice> yes thats almost surely it
20140424 00:01:49< iceiceice> i dont think its appropriate to try to add support for this now
20140424 00:01:59< iceiceice> just clarify that, you shoulndt use the local player option in networked games
20140424 00:02:39< iceiceice> the server basically just keeps track of
20140424 00:02:45< iceiceice> 1.) what is the name of the player
20140424 00:02:49< gfgtdf> in that case i think disabling is better than telling people not to do so
20140424 00:02:50< iceiceice> 2.) what socket is associated to them (an int)
20140424 00:03:03< iceiceice> 3.) what controller (human vs ai vs null)
20140424 00:03:16< iceiceice> i dont want to make it more complicated for this little thing
20140424 00:03:47< iceiceice> what do you propose to disable?
20140424 00:04:02< iceiceice> i guess could go to mp connect and make "local" not an option if nconnections > 0 ?
20140424 00:04:07< iceiceice> but that seems crude
20140424 00:04:23< iceiceice> idk i would want to ask thunderstruck what he thinks
20140424 00:04:48< iceiceice> look this is almost surely already a bug in 1.10
20140424 00:04:48< gfgtdf> iceiceice: it's better than 'telling people not to do so' i think.
20140424 00:04:52< iceiceice> and no one has complained
20140424 00:05:01< iceiceice> after years
20140424 00:06:27< iceiceice> the risk with disable is that we make a mistake / the behavior is counterintuitive
20140424 00:06:39< iceiceice> or make it harder when they want to unify depending how we do it
20140424 00:06:45< iceiceice> idk i would want to talk to thunderstruck
20140424 00:07:02< gfgtdf> iceiceice: we can just disable it on 1.12 not on 1.13 maybe
20140424 00:07:35< iceiceice> since there are work arounds, it is an option that we could just put it as a "known bug that we dont intend to fix" for 1.12 release notes
20140424 00:07:50< iceiceice> "known minor bug"
20140424 00:13:05< iceiceice> idk realistically theres only a handful of people that might work on this and it seems to me they all have better things to do, this doesnt seem very high priority atm
20140424 00:13:45< iceiceice> we could even potentially make an "update_side_data" patch post 1.12.0 
20140424 00:14:09< iceiceice> since it would just be server side
20140424 00:17:36< gfgtdf> hm ye
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20140424 00:46:36< Duthlet> gfgtdf: your attack code doesn't give action bonus for timer
20140424 00:49:31< gfgtdf> Duthlet: ok ty
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20140424 01:04:51< shadowm> Shame on you all for not telling me that I wrote Wednesday April 22 on the front page post for 1.11.13 .
20140424 01:06:37< ageplayer> mabuse connects here?
20140424 01:06:49< iceiceice> wesbot: seen mabuse?
20140424 01:06:49< wesbot> iceiceice: Sorry, I don't know of mabuse.
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20140424 01:06:53< iceiceice> apparently not
20140424 01:07:34< faryshta> iceiceice, thanks. is there a irc for use generated content or add ons?
20140424 01:07:53< shadowm> #wesnoth is the Users channel.
20140424 01:08:11< faryshta> shadowm, thanks
20140424 01:08:22< shadowm> It's not very active, so it should come as no surprise that there is no IRC channel for UMC stuff.
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20140424 01:13:35< gfgtdf> shadowm: i thought there is wesnoth-umc-dev or is that only for ci messages ?
20140424 01:13:50< shadowm> #wesnoth-umc-dev is for the Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project.
20140424 01:14:01< shadowm> Which I sincerely hope dies off. :)
20140424 01:15:56< gfgtdf> shadowm: why do you hope that ? (i know nearly nothing about that project)
20140424 01:16:27< Duthlet> shadowm: also you kept "1.11.12" in the text of the front page post
20140424 01:16:47< shadowm> Because it was an over-ambitious idea that was rendered obsolete by the apogee of DVCSes.
20140424 01:17:23< shadowm> Duthlet: Are you sure?
20140424 01:19:06< Duthlet> shadowm: I must have misread that ;)
20140424 01:19:44< shadowm> :)
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20140424 01:21:48< iceiceice> does github have an equivalent of "facebook groups"?
20140424 01:21:58< iceiceice> maybe umc dev project can become something like that :p
20140424 01:22:17< Aishiko> evil face =book evil
20140424 01:22:21< shadowm> No idea what that even is, I don't use fb.
20140424 01:23:00< shadowm> I don't care too much either way since I already pulled my add-ons away from there.
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20140424 01:23:22< shadowm> Which is saying a lot. One of them essentially founded the whole thing.
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20140424 01:23:46< iceiceice> i used facebook in highschool and college but i deleted it about 6 years ago
20140424 01:24:02< iceiceice> it was a pretty funny experience deleting it actually 
20140424 01:24:18< iceiceice> i mean, amusingly creepy
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20140424 01:28:43< Aishiko> how so?
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20140424 01:29:26< prophile> you think it's gone, then it turns up at your window at 3am
20140424 01:29:28< shadowm> "please come back!" messages, etc.?
20140424 01:31:14< shadowm> IIRC it essentially presents people with emotional blackmail. "These people will miss you if you leave!"
20140424 01:32:38< prophile> "You can't leave! Look at <ex>! Look at that sad expression! What has <he/she> ever done to you?"
20140424 01:32:39< c74d3> iceiceice: I don’t know what a Facebook group is either, but maybe it’s like a GitHub organization?
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20140424 01:33:02< iceiceice> hehe just saw the window flash
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20140424 01:33:23< iceiceice> it like, flashes profile pictures of your friends, and says things like "Sean and Tammy will miss you on Facebook!"
20140424 01:33:41< c74d> If so, Turuk started one: <https://github.com/Wesnoth-UMC-Dev>.
20140424 01:33:44< iceiceice> we laugh about that often :)
20140424 01:34:28< c74d> But that’s inactive since Turuk vanished again.
20140424 01:34:33< iceiceice> c74d: huzzah! you have proved my magical predictive powers
20140424 01:34:43< Aishiko>     linked in is worse for the email spam
20140424 01:34:48< shadowm> c74d: :|
20140424 01:34:51< c74d> I don’t know if there were any other administrators, either.
20140424 01:34:57< shadowm> :|
20140424 01:35:10< c74d> ?
20140424 01:35:40< iceiceice> hmm
20140424 01:35:45< iceiceice> well RBY has this group:
20140424 01:35:54< iceiceice> https://github.com/WesnothRBY
20140424 01:36:01< iceiceice> i guess we could be group friends or something? :)
20140424 01:36:48< iceiceice> if Wesnoth-UMC-Dev were not an impenetrable wall with no publicly visible features
20140424 01:37:48< irker844> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 1df7331b6699 / src/playcampaign.cpp: add a TODO comment to properly fix 21902 http://git.io/ILClrw
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20140424 01:40:52< irker844> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 0aa13d477d15 / src/playcampaign.cpp: add a TODO comment to properly fix 21902 http://git.io/fySWMA
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20140424 01:48:52< irker844> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 664eeae888cc / data/ai/lua/battle_calcs.lua: battle_calcs.lua: fix bug in get_attack_map_unit() for enemy units http://git.io/RWLC7A
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20140424 01:50:17< irker844> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 2a3af504008f / data/ai/lua/battle_calcs.lua: battle_calcs.lua: fix bug in get_attack_map_unit() for enemy units http://git.io/BxP2hg
20140424 01:52:40< Aishiko> I'm not I'm not even on any of them and I get status alerts from them
20140424 01:53:27< mattsc> shadowm: I’ve extensively talked about Ron and Fred and friends on #wesnoth-umc-dev.  I did not know that that’s inappropriate.
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20140424 02:00:35< shadowm> mattsc: I never said it was inappropriate?
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20140424 02:01:26< shadowm> I'm just saying Wesnoth-UMC-Dev is an obsolete venture, a dusty relic of an age of technological centralization and platform lock-in.
20140424 02:01:55< mattsc> Well, you said the channel was for the Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project - which I interpreted, quite possibly incorrectly, as things not part of the project are kind of out of place to discuss there.
20140424 02:02:59< mattsc> I did seriously think that it was for discussing Wesnoth UMC content.  My bad.
20140424 02:03:06< shadowm> Well, it's certainly been appropriated over time as a more general UMC development thing. Consider that even I still use it for commit notifications from IftU and AtS, which are hosted on my GitHub account nowadays instead of the Wesnoth-UMC-Dev Project.
20140424 02:03:21< shadowm> But that actually means things have come full circle.
20140424 02:03:35< shadowm> When I started the channel, I actually tried at first to make it a more general UMC thing.
20140424 02:03:58< shadowm> But it never really caught on.
20140424 02:04:01< mattsc> AI-demos sends its commit messages there, and it’s never been anywhere else but github.
20140424 02:04:45< mattsc> Well, it’s a semi-academic discussion at this point anyway, as barely anything is happening over there these days.
20140424 02:05:09< shadowm> Nowadays its existence and ontopicness aren't really my jurisdiction anymore, since I resigned from my role as founder admin.
20140424 02:06:36< shadowm> But I still perceive #wesnoth as a more productive place for general UMC talk, since while it is by no means more or less appropriate, there are more people there able to help anyone who might have a question about add-ons that aren't part of Wesnoth-UMC-Dev or its various spin-offs.
20140424 02:07:10< mattsc> Okay - I’ll make a mental note of that.
20140424 02:07:15< shadowm> In the past people have also used #wesnoth-dev for that same purpose.
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20140424 02:08:40< shadowm> In the end, the criteria for ontopicness of any given discussion in any of the three channels are extremely flexible and blurry and you might as well say that they don't exist until observed (i.e. by means of someone complaining about particularly off-topic or even unlawful activity).
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20140424 02:11:07< mattsc> Sounds good to me.
20140424 02:11:27< shadowm> For a while I actually tried to enforce some order in #wesnoth-umc-dev, but a series of convoluted events led to me moving to my own channel so I could bask in the freedom of not having actual topic restrictions.
20140424 02:11:59< shadowm> Which is all entirely separate from the issue of the Wesnoth-UMC-Dev endeavor falling apart over time.
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20140424 02:12:52< shadowm> If this were a blog post, this line would be followed by a dozen paragraphs rant on the rise and fall of Wesnoth-UMC-Dev.
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20140424 02:13:20< shadowm> But since it is not, I shall refrain from derailing the purpose of this channel any further.
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20140424 02:14:39< mattsc> :)
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20140424 02:30:32< iceiceice> shadowm: when you wrote yesterday that no one is working on the bugs marked 6 - Security
20140424 02:30:45< iceiceice> i mean in a sense the UMCD project will solve some of those, right?
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20140424 02:54:22< shadowm> Not all of them are about campaignd.
20140424 02:54:35< shadowm> So yeah, only some.
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20140424 14:20:46< lorenz> Hello
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20140424 14:44:52-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 241 bugs, 346 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140424 15:14:44< loonycyborg> hmm, just tried sdl2 mode. And getting severe issues with rendering when scrolling the map
20140424 15:14:48< loonycyborg> At least it works
20140424 15:14:56< loonycyborg> when not scrolling :P
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20140424 15:22:11< cib0> lol
20140424 15:23:39< cib0> sdl2 is hyped, IMO. I for one don't subscribe to the belief that mobile platform support > decent software rendering on actual computers.
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20140424 15:31:36< loonycyborg> cib0: I don't think sdl2 is about mobile
20140424 15:39:18< cib0> Regarding low-end systems it is. Low-end computers(or rather, laptops) have better CPU capabilities than GPU capabilities. For mobile phones and tablets, the GPU support is decent. And one of the main things with SDL2 is offering a GPU-optimized 2d API.
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20140424 15:41:57< shadowm> SDL 1.2.x is no longer maintained and it's severely limiting our ability to fix bugs on certain platforms (Windows, Apple OS X).
20140424 15:43:15< shadowm> And I for one only care whether it runs on my GM45 laptop. Hopefully most people aren't playing Wesnoth on ancient or disposably cheap hardware.
20140424 15:44:03< cib0> Erm..
20140424 15:44:06< cib0> Really?
20140424 15:44:37< cib0> Wesnoth is free, 2d and historically efficient.. that has made it a great game to play on such systems for me.
20140424 15:45:13< vultraz> We can't support everyone
20140424 15:45:19< shadowm> Efficient?
20140424 15:45:55< shadowm> At very low resolutions and with the lowest workload, it is. Otherwise, no.
20140424 15:46:02< cib0> Also I'd like to add that another game switched to sdl2/SDL_Texture, and it made rendering mind-boggingly inefficient on my $1000 laptop from 2013, so no, it's not just ancient/cheap hardware affected, it's just anything without dedicated VRAM.
20140424 15:46:42< shadowm> The point is that if we allow a niche market to tether us to the past then we'll never be able to make progress in other areas in need of attention.
20140424 15:47:19< vultraz> ^ ^ ^
20140424 15:49:35< loonycyborg> We don't have to use sdl2's 2d api either. Could as well stay with pure software rendering..
20140424 15:50:04< cib0> Tether you to what, exactly? What areas in need of attention?
20140424 15:50:08< loonycyborg> But I'm not sure if sdl2's 2d api will always be slow without gpu
20140424 15:50:17< loonycyborg> Or even it is
20140424 15:50:42< loonycyborg> Who knows, maybe your sdl2 issues on laptop were caused by something else
20140424 15:52:28< shadowm> GUI2 canvases, graphic effects ([color_adjust] is one notable example where present software rendering inefficiencies come to light), amazing bugs like SDL 1.2.x using obsolete/incompatible APIs on OS X, internationalization issues with keyboard input, Android and iOS support, etc.
20140424 15:53:19< cib0> The idea of the SDL_Texture API is that once something is in an SDL_Texture, it'll be very cheap to blit. Which just isn't true in the software emulation. So either way, you'd still have to code for software rendering, if you want software rendering to be fast.
20140424 15:53:20< shadowm> Maybe those SDL 2 issues were caused by bad practices. I gather it's not too hard to write horribly inefficient code using GL.
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20140424 15:55:51< shadowm> When I said software rendering above I meant cient-side software rendering, i.e. in Wesnoth.
20140424 15:58:13< cib0> Apart from the API issues, none of those reasons really convinces me.
20140424 15:59:16< cib0> I'm not saying sdl2 is a bad idea in the long run btw, I'm more concerned that it's simply not ready.
20140424 15:59:47< shadowm> Wesnoth 1.12 will probably be around for a couple of years, so I don't see that as a problem.
20140424 16:00:22< cib0> Hm, true.
20140424 16:00:23< shadowm> Plenty of games are using SDL 2 already and it's being actively maintained, so presumably most issues that directly affect us by the point 1.14.0 is released will be fixed.
20140424 16:02:04< cib0> Well, so far no fix for the problem where using SDL_Texture rotation in software mode will produce pixel offsets compared to hardware mode on dozen's of people's systems.. it's probably some very specific issue, possibly a programming error, but it doesn't exactly make me optimistic about the API being as easy to program as 1.2 at some point.
20140424 16:03:37< cib0> Then again, even SDL 1.2 suffered countless bugs that nobody seemed to want to fix. Just people got used to those bugs over the years, I guess.
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20140424 17:03:29< aquileia> <shadowm> internationalization issues with keyboard input <-- don't forget i18n issues with file loading... PR 155 is pretty much a workaround for a SDL 1.2 bug
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20140424 18:05:44< irker349> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master fe722172ae30 / src/mouse_events.cpp: add set_action_bonus_count when attacking http://git.io/0N0otg
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20140424 18:32:16< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2447 (master - fe72217 : gfgtdf): The build was broken.
20140424 18:32:16< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/23695977
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20140424 18:36:54< irker349> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master de30bfcaed8b / src/mouse_events.cpp: fixup fe722172ae (add set_action_bonus_count) http://git.io/79-dqg
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20140424 19:18:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#2448 (master - de30bfc : gfgtdf): The build was fixed.
20140424 19:18:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/23698445
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20140424 21:19:14< gfgtdf> is there a reson why we use t_string  instead of std::string in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/variable.cpp#L136 ?
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20140424 21:51:05< irker816> wesnoth: sigurdfdragon wesnoth:1.12 415dda546122 / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Fix CB project file. http://git.io/IR97bw
20140424 21:51:05< irker816> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:1.12 69edbfebb8ee / projectfiles/CodeBlocks/wesnoth.cbp: Merge pull request #157 from sigurdfdragon/1.12-CB_Fix-2014-04-24 http://git.io/LYa8Tg
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20140424 22:30:50< iceiceice> gfgtdf: do you know about this bug?
20140424 22:30:52< iceiceice> https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=19258
20140424 22:31:33< gfgtdf> iceiceice	: no i dont
20140424 22:31:53< iceiceice> do you know if anyone is working on the one you reported?
20140424 22:31:57< iceiceice> about variables
20140424 22:32:34< gfgtdf> iceiceice:  have another question is the code      const string& str = cfg["aaa"];   ....   safe ? or doe it casue errors ?
20140424 22:33:00< iceiceice> i never saw it cause an error
20140424 22:33:02< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i have heard of noone who work on that code
20140424 22:33:12< iceiceice> but it will cause "aaa" to exist as an empty field if it doesnt i guess?
20140424 22:33:19< iceiceice> if cfg is not const
20140424 22:33:35< iceiceice> ok i might look at this variables thing i guess
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20140424 22:49:56< AI0867> gfgtdf: that wasn't safe. it might be now
20140424 22:51:03< AI0867> that is, cfg["aaa"] now returns a config::attribute_value, which can be implicitly to a std::string.
20140424 22:51:18< AI0867> and you can bind a temporary to a const reference
20140424 22:51:57< AI0867> it used to be though, that it'd return a t_string, and the implicit conversion would return a reference to a member of that t_string
20140424 22:52:31< AI0867> so you'd now have a const reference to a member of a temporary that has been destroyed
20140424 22:53:35< AI0867> so, the answer is, it depends on the implementation of config::attribute_value
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20140424 22:59:56< gfgtdf> AI0867: then i guess that was also the reason why we use a t_tring here https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/variable.cpp#L136 ? And that this comment https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/variable.hpp#L92 is now invalid too ?
20140424 23:01:16< gfgtdf> AI0867: i think attribute_value s implicit conversions now always return by value, so that should be safe.
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20140424 23:27:16< gfgtdf> wesnot: seen Coffee_irc 
20140424 23:27:23< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen Coffee_irc 
20140424 23:27:23< wesbot> gfgtdf: Queried user last spoke 1d 2h ago.  Coffee_irc is currently in this channel.
20140424 23:31:59< gfgtdf> Coffee_irc: please  take a look at http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40360 i think you introduced this in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/54e2351
20140424 23:34:32< AI0867> gfgtdf: probably, though you should ask a C++ expert before removing it
20140424 23:36:27< gfgtdf> AI0867: can you give me a list of people here who know more about c++ than you  ?
20140424 23:37:18< AI0867> of the active people, mordante
20140424 23:37:59< gfgtdf> a short list, but ok  :)
20140424 23:44:07< gfgtdf> wesbot: seen mordante
20140424 23:44:07< wesbot> gfgtdf: The person with the nick mordante last spoke 2d 3h ago.  2d 3h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-de with the message: Quit: Leaving
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 25 00:00:25 2014