--- Log opened Tue Apr 29 00:00:50 2014
20140429 00:06:16-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Quit: tomreyn]
20140429 00:08:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 00:08:38-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@e176185014.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140429 00:11:10-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@wesnoth/mp-mod/Duthlet] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140429 00:16:35-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f048044237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140429 00:19:49-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 00:25:09-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.148] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20140429 00:41:32-!- aquileia [52d4196d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.109] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 00:45:57-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140429 00:46:41-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 01:04:20-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 01:21:54-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.152.242] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 01:33:00-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:34ce:ee23:e49a:eab3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20140429 01:33:46-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:7cdb:a40:8bb6:a5fb] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 01:39:34-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:01:05-!- sachith500 [~kvirc@112.134.152.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140429 02:03:13-!- Ivanovic_ [~ivanovic@frnk-5f7535db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:04:33-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@frnk-5f74d7aa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20140429 02:05:07-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20140429 02:17:39-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@pool-173-74-88-86.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:18:06-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:29:40-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B008330.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:31:48-!- stikonas__ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 02:36:18-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 03:00:13< aquileia> gfgtdf: I usually read the logs, so you can tell me anytime you want (I assume it's about the VC2010 dependencies)
20140429 03:03:12-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
20140429 03:03:50-!- Appleman1234 [~Appleman1@pool-173-74-88-86.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 03:15:36-!- Sulfur [~Miranda@p5B008330.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140429 03:25:30< shadowm> iceiceice: They are recorded too.
20140429 03:27:00< shadowm> The files aren't published to the web, but they are kept in the server for admin and moderator use.
20140429 03:31:30-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 03:51:05-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 04:02:12-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 04:10:03-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 04:18:01-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 04:21:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 04:23:12-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 04:25:10-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aymysaiddzpcxxmv] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 04:36:38< Aishiko> I sort of agree with iceiceice that publishing that private messages in game are not logged at all, could give rise to abusive behaviour for those that are more likely to behave that way if they know that they can't be caught breaking the TOS
20140429 04:36:53-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 04:37:04< Aishiko> or CoC whatever we call it
20140429 04:38:11-!- aquileia [52d4196d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.109] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140429 04:48:16-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 04:48:54-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 04:53:11-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 04:54:23-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 05:14:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 05:23:56-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 05:37:02-!- cib_ [~cib@p5DD20A80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 05:37:24-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 06:32:50-!- cib_ [~cib@p5DD20A80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 06:33:04-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 07:07:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 07:24:46-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 07:25:59-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 07:26:59-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 07:27:23-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 07:28:03-!- cib_ [~cib@132.231.178.208] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 07:55:18-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 07:57:26-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 07:57:32-!- stikonas__ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 08:03:00-!- NateWr [~NateWr@cpc65580-sgyl33-2-0-cust998.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:10:54-!- cib_ [~cib@132.231.178.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20140429 08:12:54-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:13:02-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140429 08:16:52-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:24:04-!- Octalot [~noct@27.74.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:24:35-!- Retsuyama [~Retsuyama@114.79.28.62] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:33:03-!- Trademark [~trademark@2001:660:3004:64:d48a:90e8:5c66:a733] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:39:10-!- stikonas_ [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140429 08:40:47-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-89-28.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 08:40:54-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 08:42:10-!- Retsuyama [~Retsuyama@114.79.28.62] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]]
20140429 08:42:51-!- Upth [~ogmar@108-85-89-28.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 08:43:13-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 09:21:10-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 09:35:26-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 10:03:27-!- cib [~cib@132.231.178.146] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 10:03:51-!- cib is now known as Guest70858
20140429 10:09:27-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@wesnoth/mp-mod/Duthlet] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 10:14:41-!- Guest70858 [~cib@132.231.178.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140429 10:19:55-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 11:07:13-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aymysaiddzpcxxmv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20140429 12:02:47-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 12:47:25-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 12:47:47-!- Yaiyan [5693fa2d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.86.147.250.45] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 12:48:04-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 12:49:22-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140429 12:49:24-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 12:55:41-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140429 13:06:31-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 13:11:55-!- happygrue [~happygrue@2601:6:4380:7df:59b6:515e:30aa:2a0] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 13:11:55-!- happygrue [~happygrue@2601:6:4380:7df:59b6:515e:30aa:2a0] has quit [Changing host]
20140429 13:11:55-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 13:29:34-!- bagzie [~bag@85-76-68-94-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 13:57:45-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has quit []
20140429 14:03:06-!- happygrue [~happygrue@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 14:08:44-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140429 14:19:14-!- cib [~cib@132.231.178.92] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 14:19:38-!- cib is now known as Guest49490
20140429 14:27:43-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 15:01:53-!- Trademark [~trademark@2001:660:3004:64:d48a:90e8:5c66:a733] has quit []
20140429 15:29:59-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140429 15:30:57-!- timotei [~timotei@wesnoth/developer/timotei] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 15:36:29-!- lorenz [~androirc@p4FD15B1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 15:36:45< lorenz> Hello
20140429 15:37:52< lorenz> I want to recruite from a village in a szenario. Can somebody help me?
20140429 15:38:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 15:39:34< zookeeper> maybe if you describe more precisely what "recruiting from a village" means
20140429 15:41:38< lorenz> When i rightclick on a empty village of my side i want to have the option 'recruite' 
20140429 15:42:55-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140429 15:42:56< lorenz> Like in the conquest maps
20140429 15:44:47< zookeeper> sounds rather tricky, assuming you want the normal recruit menu to be used instead of making your own with [message] and [option]s
20140429 15:45:12< lorenz> I looked at the WML of the 'conquest era' but i didn't understand it all. So what i have written did not work
20140429 15:46:02< zookeeper> so what kind of menu does that era use?
20140429 15:46:48-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140429 15:47:11-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 15:49:27< zookeeper> i dunno if lua can invoke standard dialogs like recruit, but since it doesn't seem to be a GUI2 dialog since there isn't one in data/gui/ anywhere, i doubt that it could in this case anyway
20140429 15:50:02< zookeeper> so AFAIK (and i might be missing something), you can't really make the standard recruit menu pop up like that
20140429 15:51:12< Yaiyan> Couldn't you use the recruitment tile somehow?
20140429 15:51:28< Yaiyan> Actually, nevermind
20140429 15:52:06< zookeeper> yeah, can't really if there's no constraints on where the leader must be
20140429 15:55:05< Yaiyan> Is there no event that fires on right mouseclick?
20140429 15:55:35-!- lorenz [~androirc@p4FD15B1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 15:55:50-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 15:56:41< zookeeper> nope, but that's not a problem anyway
20140429 15:57:13< Yaiyan> Well
20140429 15:57:16< zookeeper> you'd just make a regular menu item which then springs up the recruit dialog... except that if you can't do the latter, it's kind of a moot point :p
20140429 15:57:21< Yaiyan> Yeah
20140429 15:57:59< Yaiyan> But if there was a mouseclick event you could put recruitment overlays around the map so the village was considered part of the castle
20140429 15:58:32< zookeeper> yeah, but then you'd need to put the overlays pretty much everywhere to ensure they're all connected
20140429 15:59:04< Yaiyan> I guess
20140429 15:59:15< zookeeper> and then that'd also mean you'd be able to recruit on the connecting hexes
20140429 15:59:41-!- Guest49490 [~cib@132.231.178.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140429 15:59:46< Yaiyan> Not if they were only placed when the mouse button is clicked
20140429 15:59:54< zookeeper> right, true
20140429 16:15:26-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 16:18:12-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.148] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 16:24:15-!- Duthlet [~Duthlet@wesnoth/mp-mod/Duthlet] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140429 16:42:35-!- bagzie [~bag@85-76-68-94-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit []
20140429 16:44:52-!- NateWr [~NateWr@cpc65580-sgyl33-2-0-cust998.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 16:49:35-!- irker301 [~irker@fehu.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 16:49:35< irker301> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 b636f3c9715d / src/simple_rng.hpp: fix implementation bug in random number generator http://git.io/B0eojQ
20140429 16:49:35< irker301> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 012fc3de164c / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/d0w6rw
20140429 16:50:01-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 16:52:29-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.148] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20140429 16:53:24-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game]
20140429 16:57:39< irker301> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 0597151f1521 / src/simple_rng.hpp: fix implementation bug in random number generator http://git.io/4DNF-w
20140429 16:57:41< irker301> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 95f11ab70ba7 / changelog: update changelog https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/95f11ab70ba723d3fb5a75e82e5104ece62e08a5
20140429 16:58:46-!- Yaiyan [5693fa2d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.86.147.250.45] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]
20140429 17:31:25-!- Guest49490 [~cib@p5DC750ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:31:39-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:33:36-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:36:34-!- Bodhi-Baum [~Bodhi@dslb-084-063-057-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:36:54-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-helkreggsvnvspra] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:52:43-!- Kexoth [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 17:53:16-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 17:57:35-!- kex [~kex@89.205.75.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140429 17:58:32-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:15:36-!- DCW [~Thunderbi@cpc66863-finc15-2-0-cust393.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
20140429 18:17:14-!- mordante [~mordante@roadie.xs4all.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:17:15-!- mordante [~mordante@roadie.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host]
20140429 18:17:15-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:17:30< mordante> servus
20140429 18:23:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 18:28:39-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:29:26-!- aquileia [52d4196d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.109] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:38:17-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:38:30-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140429 18:46:26< aquileia> mordante: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong... http://r.wesnoth.org/p569937
20140429 18:50:59-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 18:52:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140429 18:53:47< mordante> iceiceice, random() is not portable it's probably not on Windows
20140429 18:55:01< mordante> aquileia, iceiceice if we want a better random engine have a look at Boost::random http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_51_0/doc/html/boost_random.html
20140429 18:55:13< mordante> portable and we already depend on boost
20140429 18:55:58< mordante> and if we use an algorithm there, preferably one of http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/numeric/random
20140429 18:58:42< mordante> aquileia, you were right on the part of rand(), but I'm quite sure I told about Boost::random before
20140429 18:59:01< aquileia> mt19937 is in both, so that might be a good choice...
20140429 18:59:34< aquileia> I think we don't depend on that part of boost yet, though
20140429 19:01:49< mordante> true, but adding another boost library as dependency is normally not a big issue
20140429 19:02:48< mordante> mt is nice generator
20140429 19:02:52< mordante> is a*
20140429 19:04:14< aquileia> mordante: I just checked http://wesnoth.org/irclogs/2014/03/%23wesnoth-de.2014-03-01.log and boost::random wasn't mentioned
20140429 19:04:44-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 19:06:57< mordante> I think I mentioned it in this chan
20140429 19:09:45-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 19:33:01< mordante> I'm off bye
20140429 19:33:08-!- mordante [~mordante@wesnoth/developer/mordante] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 19:46:57-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 19:47:13-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-helkreggsvnvspra] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
20140429 19:56:51-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 19:57:45-!- irker301 [~irker@fehu.ai0867.net] has quit [Quit: transmission timeout]
20140429 20:00:23-!- Guest49490 [~cib@p5DC750ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 20:08:27-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@d229090.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 20:08:42< aquileia> Hi gfgtdf
20140429 20:09:45< gfgtdf> hi
20140429 20:10:54< aquileia> I assume you might have some feedback on externalVC10?
20140429 20:11:08< aquileia> Or was it something else?
20140429 20:11:43< gfgtdf> no, i wanted to do that now, i wanted to aks you if you also have a external vor sdl2 ?
20140429 20:12:03< aquileia> no, sorry, I don't
20140429 20:15:11-!- Bodhi-Baum [~Bodhi@dslb-084-063-057-060.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20140429 20:19:24< gfgtdf> 	aquileia: you talked ybout the rng before you want t replace rand() or simple_rng ?
20140429 20:20:26< aquileia> It was iceiceice who asked why we implement an own RNG (the old one)
20140429 20:21:24< aquileia> And it might be considered to use boost::random::mt19937 instead
20140429 20:21:45< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i noticed that the simple_rng code has a comment that says that it is from this man page
20140429 20:21:46< iceiceice> http://linux.die.net/man/3/rand
20140429 20:21:56< iceiceice> but the implementation is very slightly different,
20140429 20:22:03< gfgtdf> where ?
20140429 20:22:13< iceiceice> the rand_pool_ is an unsigned long
20140429 20:22:18< iceiceice> in the specification, but was unsigned
20140429 20:22:22< iceiceice> int in ours
20140429 20:22:25< iceiceice> until i patched it this morning
20140429 20:22:35< iceiceice> it probably has made no difference ever,
20140429 20:22:53< iceiceice> but still i think it raises an issue, why are we doing this in the first place
20140429 20:23:35< gfgtdf> hm i think int and long are both 32 bit, sometimes long is 64 bit on 64 bit machines i think.
20140429 20:23:42< aquileia> gfgtdf: In case you want to test SDL2 I listed the links to the developement versions (lib, dll & h) http://pastebin.com/h5Gt2e9J
20140429 20:24:11< iceiceice> gfgtdf: thats what AI said on forums also, but in the C standard int may be 16 bits
20140429 20:24:32< gfgtdf> aquileia: do we dont have to compile SDL on our own ?
20140429 20:24:59< iceiceice> idk what i find confusing is, apparently we know we dont want to use std::rand() because of portability concerns,
20140429 20:25:03< aquileia> gfgtdf: AFAICT you just need to copy it in
20140429 20:25:16< iceiceice> but what we actually are using is just an "example" implementation of std::rand from the man pages
20140429 20:25:21< iceiceice> with this minor type change
20140429 20:26:12< aquileia> iceiceice: Did you read my comment http://r.wesnoth.org/p569937 ?
20140429 20:26:31< aquileia> oh, yes you did...
20140429 20:26:43< gfgtdf> iceiceice: we are using our own 'rand()' and we also use the rand() function form the stdlib.h.  We use rand() from stdlib to seed our own simple_rng
20140429 20:27:15< iceiceice> y... it seems like it would be more reliable though if we just use a standard for all of it, no?
20140429 20:27:55< iceiceice> if we try to port wesnoth to more exotic systems later, we may regret minor changes like unsigned long -> unsigned int
20140429 20:28:05-!- Yaiyan [5693fa2d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.86.147.250.45] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 20:28:22< iceiceice> and the library stuff will have been more thoroughly tested
20140429 20:30:18< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm we actualy rely on the rng bhaving teh same on all systems, to then we shoudl maybe use uint32_t instead of unsigned long.
20140429 20:30:29< gfgtdf> s/to/so
20140429 20:32:24< iceiceice> i think the issue is that the rng engine we have wont actually behave the same on all systems either way
20140429 20:32:41-!- trademark [~trademark@nsg93-8-88-175-59-164.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 20:32:45< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice: is has to otherisw we'd get oos
20140429 20:33:11< iceiceice> AI says that unsigned int and long would be 32 bits on all systems we actually compile to
20140429 20:33:40< iceiceice> but the point is that if someone compiles wesnoth on a wierd system, or if we release a package for an exotic system of some kind,
20140429 20:33:57< iceiceice> the code we have is from a man page that basically says "Do not use this function in applications intended to be portable when good randomness is needed. (Use random(3) instead.)"
20140429 20:35:02< iceiceice> if we move to this boost engine like mordante suggested then i guess we would never have to think about this kind of issue 
20140429 20:35:23< iceiceice> i have only looked at the boost thing very briefly though
20140429 20:36:28< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i think there is also a todo: https://github.com/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/blob/sync_2/src/random_new_synced.hpp#L41
20140429 20:38:35< gfgtdf> wring branch but whoudl be teh same on teh original branch
20140429 20:38:38< gfgtdf> should
20140429 20:40:44< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i wast sure eether that makes sense becasue we usually dont generate the much rng with a single gnr object, so a 'long period' which is one of its stranghs isnt that important
20140429 20:41:24< iceiceice> yeah i mean that was why i started looking at it i guess,
20140429 20:41:30< iceiceice> so i could give an answer to pyrophorus on the forum
20140429 20:41:46< gfgtdf> iceiceice: we usually generate ~10 random number with one rng object.
20140429 20:41:57< iceiceice> so i mean,
20140429 20:42:10< iceiceice> constant reseeding in principle should make it easier and not harder to generate good randomness
20140429 20:42:24< gfgtdf> iceiceice: I THOUGHT IT MAKES IT HARDER
20140429 20:42:29< gfgtdf> srty for caps
20140429 20:42:29< iceiceice> if the seeds are independent / nearly independent
20140429 20:42:34< gfgtdf> unintended
20140429 20:42:57< iceiceice> the purpose of rng is to take short, truly random bits and stretch them to long sequence which *can't* be truly random but looks random to simple tests
20140429 20:43:14< iceiceice> if you dont want any stretching..
20140429 20:43:19< iceiceice> then you can just report the seed as the sequence
20140429 20:43:36< iceiceice> thats not good for crypto, but for non-crypto thats actually what lots of "textbook" rngs do
20140429 20:43:47< iceiceice> like, the first X bits will just be the seed,
20140429 20:43:49< iceiceice> then the generator wills tart
20140429 20:43:52< gfgtdf> iceiceice: we generate teh seed with rnad() which isnt a very good rng
20140429 20:44:05-!- Yaiyan [5693fa2d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.86.147.250.45] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]
20140429 20:44:07< iceiceice> hmm
20140429 20:44:18< iceiceice> ok i cant say if that's a good idea for sure,
20140429 20:44:41< iceiceice> but if you can distinguish rand() from truly random by using its outputs as seeds and inspecting the first few bits,
20140429 20:44:47< iceiceice> that would be a "simple test" that breaks rand()
20140429 20:44:59< iceiceice> idk if rand() is supposed to good against that though
20140429 20:45:42< iceiceice> i would think that any "good" rng would fool a test like that though, although i dont really know
20140429 20:45:58< iceiceice> idk that would certainly not be cryptographically secure
20140429 20:47:02< iceiceice> idk i dont think it is unsound practice to choose rng seeds using rngs
20140429 20:48:16< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i think  one of the main problems is that there is not many anylasis/documentation on how good these gernatratos are with only ~ 10 rng calls.
20140429 20:48:31< gfgtdf> we its hard to chooe whcih one we shoudl use
20140429 20:48:52< iceiceice> so i looked at the simple_rng that we have to try to answer pyrophorus's question
20140429 20:48:58< iceiceice> it looked like rand_pool_ was the only state
20140429 20:49:05-!- vultraz_iOS [uid24821@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oonyqigsnmhhemaa] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 20:49:07< iceiceice> and it was truly rerandomized on reseed
20140429 20:49:39< iceiceice> i guess it might be different if it has a different number of bits from the seed??
20140429 20:50:05< iceiceice> but on the platforms where it makes sense, i think the first draw will always be at least as random as the seed
20140429 20:50:10< iceiceice> and it will go downhill from there basically...
20140429 20:50:22< gfgtdf> it has a differnt number of bits than the seed, the seed is an int, but rnad() restursn just a 'short'
20140429 20:50:40< iceiceice> yeah but the state is unsigned long which is apparently 32 bits like the seed
20140429 20:50:56< gfgtdf> but we always pass a 16 bit as seed
20140429 20:52:43< iceiceice> idk, according to AI's forum post, unsigned int is actually 32 bits on all the machines we compile to, even if the specification says only 16 bits
20140429 20:53:11< iceiceice> *says at least 16 bits
20140429 20:54:16< iceiceice> idk i mean theres many ways the rng could work,
20140429 20:54:26< iceiceice> it may use the seed liek a buffer?
20140429 20:54:41< iceiceice> and then have some strange function it continually applies, taking in parts of the seed 
20140429 20:54:54< iceiceice> and then the seed might not be fully consumed until several draws have occurred
20140429 20:54:55< iceiceice> afaik
20140429 20:55:03< iceiceice> the one we have doesnt seem to do that,
20140429 20:55:19< iceiceice> so i dont think theres any issue about the first few draws not being fully random or anything
20140429 20:55:35< iceiceice> i dont actually know if theres any real rng that has a problem like that
20140429 20:56:21< iceiceice> but anyways i dont see that we would
20140429 21:02:43-!- aquileia [52d4196d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.212.25.109] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
20140429 21:05:12< iceiceice> bbl
20140429 21:05:13-!- iceiceice [~chris@cpe-66-108-20-80.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20140429 21:08:20-!- thunderstruck [~zaibotren@cpc13-sgyl31-2-0-cust696.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20140429 21:10:11-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:7cdb:a40:8bb6:a5fb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 21:10:53-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:c40b:c192:8884:3f36] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:12:29-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-rojctmclcpgwcaki] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20140429 21:19:53-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@d229090.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]]
20140429 21:23:54-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Ciao]
20140429 21:26:21-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-qstwnvgvonkfycmi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:28:03-!- EdB [~edb@85.69.242.6] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140429 21:33:00-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:33:38-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 21:36:11-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:37:19-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-qstwnvgvonkfycmi] has quit [Changing host]
20140429 21:37:19-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:37:19-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Changing host]
20140429 21:37:19-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@gateway/shell/panicbnc/x-qstwnvgvonkfycmi] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 21:41:28< Coffee_irc> hi
20140429 21:42:09< Coffee_irc> just wondering if optimization flags will be set for the final 1.12.0 release differently to in development flags for compiling?
20140429 21:42:44< Coffee_irc> this is sort of in reference to http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12139&start=180
20140429 21:58:22-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140429 22:04:56-!- trewe [~trewe@2001:8a0:d105:e201:626c:66ff:fe92:9b7c] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:06:37-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:07:29-!- Yaiyan [5693fa2d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.86.147.250.45] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:11:18-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.205] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:18:57-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054146135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:20:29< gfgtdf> aquileia: i tested your external VC10 and it compiled, but i used my own boost. So i don't know whether the boost shipped in that package  works.
20140429 22:24:29-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 22:28:43-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:31:31-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f054146135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]]
20140429 22:32:16-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:42:18-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f053180013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 22:55:55-!- noy [~Noy@24.244.23.110] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:55:55-!- noy [~Noy@24.244.23.110] has quit [Changing host]
20140429 22:55:55-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 22:56:23-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@124.109.10.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140429 23:08:10-!- Necrosporus_ [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:09:20-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game]
20140429 23:10:05-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:10:16< iceiceice> i have a quick question: is it a bad idea to commit my email address to the repo?
20140429 23:10:31< iceiceice> won't i get like spammed or something?
20140429 23:11:17-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:11:27< Aishiko_laptop> that is a valid fear
20140429 23:11:41-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20140429 23:11:47< iceiceice> i noticed that in the about.cfg page the emails are slightly obfuscated at least, but the copyright notices tend not to be
20140429 23:12:49< iceiceice> ok silly question, thanks
20140429 23:23:34-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@d155109.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:34:38-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20140429 23:40:32-!- Aishiko_laptop [~unknown@198.85.71.253] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:41:06-!- c74d is now known as Guest44702
20140429 23:41:06-!- Guest44702 [~c74d3a4eb@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Killed (rajaniemi.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))]
20140429 23:43:23-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:c40b:c192:8884:3f36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140429 23:44:08-!- c74d [~c74d3a4eb@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:51:58-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:59b4:e01d:a500:f7e2] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140429 23:57:28-!- iceiceice [~chris@207-237-132-90.ny.subnet.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
--- Log closed Wed Apr 30 00:00:58 2014