--- Log opened Thu Apr 17 00:00:04 2014
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20140417 00:15:16< dipseydoodle> Can anybody tell me if there is a .deb package for 1.10.7 on ubuntu? I think that the Ubuntu Software Center only supports up to 1.0
20140417 00:15:21< dipseydoodle> sorry 1.10
20140417 00:17:07< dipseydoodle> I simply ask because I'd rather not compile it again.
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20140417 02:19:53< deego> In campaigns, see difficulty levels challenging, normal, and easy. Sometimes, I see 'beginner.' Is that same as easy, or is it even easier?
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20140417 04:28:14< celticminstrel> deego: I'd go by the order they appear in. A designer can define any number of difficulty levels.
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20140417 06:07:42< Ardonik> I would go further: in most campaigns, "easy" means "has more bonuses and units to discover," "normal" means "Just within the threshold of being possible," and "hard" means "the campaign designer did not playtest this."
20140417 06:08:45< Ardonik> Blah blah blah, Northern Rebirth, blah blah.
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20140417 06:18:02< vultraz> Ardonik: of course no one playtests Hard :P
20140417 06:18:05< vultraz> we playtest Normal
20140417 06:18:37< Ardonik> I knew it all along...!
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20140417 06:23:12< vultraz> We assume Normal is in the middle
20140417 06:23:22< vultraz> Therefor anything else is not worth testing
20140417 06:25:08< Ardonik> In my unhumble opinion, one daring to rise to the challenge of the Hard difficulty ought to be rewarded for their perseverance.
20140417 06:25:32< Ardonik> Take all of the 'freebies' and loyal taggers-on that normally get stuck into EAsy mode, and put them in Hard mode instead.
20140417 06:25:39< Ardonik> *Easy.
20140417 06:26:24< Ardonik> Without any incentives and without playtesting, Hard just becomes electronic masochism, when it could be so much more than that!
20140417 06:34:39< vultraz> hmmm
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20140417 07:47:30< tdk27> that is how it's arranged in some campaigns - you get some extra units in various ones for being on hard and doing scenarios well
20140417 07:47:47< tdk27> the primary difference is generally that in "hard" you get less gold and the enemy gets more gold and more units
20140417 07:47:54< tdk27> um, more income, even
20140417 07:48:15< tdk27> which is a crude way to make the game harder, but does works omewhat
20140417 07:51:38< zookeeper> Ardonik, hard is certainly not _that_ hard except in a few campaigns (like NR)
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20140417 07:58:32< Ardonik> zookeeper: Aye, it would be unfair to paint all campaigns with the same brush.
20140417 07:59:05< Ardonik> My bias is that I only ever do campaigns in hard mode (I mean, why not), so it's quite annoying to see hard scenarios be completely unplayable.
20140417 08:00:01< Ardonik> The worst is when the amount of money you start a scenario with isn't enough to recall the kind of force you need to beat your enemy...and you only learn that after playing the scenario five times.  Then you go back and try to spend less in a previous scenario.
20140417 08:01:37< zookeeper> so what makes you think the scenarios are impossible rather than you just not being good enough?
20140417 08:02:29< Ardonik> You'll have to specify the campaign in order for me to better answer your question.  If we're talking about, say, Northern Rebirth, it's true that I haven't beat it yet.
20140417 08:02:43< Ardonik> The last time I played it was a while ago, but I gave it my best.
20140417 08:02:56< Ardonik> If you want to claim that I'm not good enough to beat it, you go right ahead and do that.
20140417 08:03:02< zookeeper> NR is an exception, no one really cares about it
20140417 08:03:13< zookeeper> and it's known to be absurdly hard, not that i've tried it myself in years
20140417 08:03:21< Ardonik> A pity.  I wish someone had let me know back at the time.
20140417 08:03:42< zookeeper> indeed
20140417 08:06:22< tdk27> I don't think it's unreasonable for hard campaigns to require sensible play across multiple scenarios
20140417 08:06:36< tdk27> the wesnoth AI just isn't good enough to make standalone fights the only way to go
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20140417 08:07:37< Ardonik> tdk27: I agree, but it would a real time-saver in those cases for the previous scenario to mention something to that effect in-plot (or at worst, just make the player lose right away if they start the next scenario with the minimum!)
20140417 08:08:22< zookeeper> the AI is as hard one makes it, it has nothing to do with carryover except the fact that it's very difficult to balance carryover.
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20140417 08:09:04< Ardonik> It'll be interesting seeing how campaigns will be written with the new, stronger AI.
20140417 08:09:31< tdk27> zookeeper: my point is more that if you require long term gold management in a campaign, you cap the player's power, instead of just having "recruit all your units and go stomp on them" as the default and only strategy
20140417 08:09:32< Ardonik> It actually steals villages aggressively, making you constantly watch your six (which is well, and as it should be.)
20140417 08:27:17< Soliton> i've beat NR on hard or nightmare or whatever it's called. i don't remember it to be impossible. been some years ago though.
20140417 08:34:13< Soliton> (of course i've (ab)used stuff like 1-XP-to-level units etc extensively.)
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20140417 08:41:59< deego> celticminstrel: thanks.
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20140417 08:46:57< deego> Ardonik: thanks, as well. :)
20140417 08:47:45< deego> What is NR?
20140417 08:47:55< deego> ah, northern rebirth
20140417 08:49:19< deego> <Soliton> (of course i've (ab)used stuff like 1-XP-to-level units etc extensively.)  <<=== hey, that's not abuse!
20140417 08:49:43< deego> 1-xp-to-level is a super-sturdy unit. You can place it at the edge of your defence line!
20140417 08:50:06< Ardonik> Only because the RCA AI overvalues them!
20140417 08:50:16< Soliton> it's somewhat of an abuse if the AI does not attack them *at all*.
20140417 08:50:25< Soliton> not sure if it currently does or not.
20140417 08:50:36< deego> ah
20140417 08:50:40< deego> what's RCA ? 
20140417 08:51:02< Ardonik> The default AI -- the one you see when you select a computer player in multiplayer.
20140417 08:51:28< deego> Yeah, I saw that. Just curious what rca means
20140417 08:51:50< deego> hm, google believes 'release candidate' 
20140417 08:52:07< Ardonik> Surely "really cool"?
20140417 08:52:11< deego> lol
20140417 08:52:17< Soliton> ca is candidate action. forgot what the r means.
20140417 08:52:25< zookeeper> yeah i never remember what the r is for either
20140417 08:53:02< deego> ah. I'm afk to bed. (Played tale of brothers, today. Thanks for a well-designed campaign.)
20140417 08:53:55< deego> Also, anyone here played singularity: the endgame? :)
20140417 08:54:49< Ardonik> Is that the one where Ray Kurzweil summons Electronic Jesus as the final boss so that mankind might realize its full potential?
20140417 08:56:30< Soliton> i've played endgame: singularity.
20140417 08:56:53< deego> haha, close enough. Try it, it's apt-get installable, and I've talked once or twice with emh, and quite a lot with the co-author.
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20140417 08:57:29< deego> Don't forget to install singularity-music
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20140417 12:39:00< dipseydoodle> Morning
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20140417 12:40:11< dipseydoodle> Does anybody have any idea why SCons won't c ompile on my Ubuntu machine. It keepss saying something to the effect of No library: Boost Iostreams, but I know I have boost and I even downloaded an updated version.
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20140417 14:08:47< dipseydoodle> So if anybody is as stupid as I am. Whatever deb file you have in ubuntu or debian is actually 1.10.7 :P
20140417 14:08:50< dipseydoodle> thanks
20140417 14:10:58< loonycyborg> So? Isn't it current stable?
20140417 14:11:46< Rhonda> dipseydoodle: apt-get build-dep wesnoth-1.10
20140417 14:12:04< dipseydoodle> yeah I just did that
20140417 14:12:20< dipseydoodle> I was afraid it was just 1.10 not 1.10.7
20140417 14:12:30< Rhonda> Why afraid?
20140417 14:13:00< dipseydoodle> Uhm not like Oh nos if I donwload this afraid. Like I just thought it was 1.10
20140417 14:13:14< Rhonda> 1.10.7 _is_ 1.10  :)
20140417 14:13:34< dipseydoodle> :P I know. I just figured that out.
20140417 14:13:34< Rhonda> Well, with some small patches, translation updates and stuff; but all 1.10 versions are compatible.
20140417 14:13:56< dipseydoodle> I relize that it was a bug fix. I didn't relize that until now.
20140417 14:13:58< Rhonda> That's why it makes sense to only carry the 1.10 in the package name.
20140417 14:14:19 * Rhonda . o O ( at least that was the thought process that made me choose that naming schema :) )
20140417 14:14:44< dipseydoodle> Ok
20140417 14:14:46< dipseydoodle> :P
20140417 14:16:16< dipseydoodle> Bye now
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20140417 14:27:37< mattsc> deego: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/AiWML#RCA_AI
20140417 14:28:36< deego> mattsc: ah, thanks.
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20140417 15:03:26< mattsc> Soliton: the AI still (mostly) doesn’t attack 1-XP-to-level units.  There’s a Micro AI (incl. a test scenario) which one can use to work around that.
20140417 15:04:14< mattsc> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Micro_AIs#Simple_Attack_Micro_AI_.28ai_type.3Dsimple_attack.29
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20140417 17:55:43-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140417 17:58:00-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 18:08:08-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 18:30:03-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 18:31:10-!- Falcon` is now known as falcon`
20140417 18:36:37-!- c74d3a4 is now known as c74d
20140417 18:40:04-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140417 18:49:54-!- Guest3906 [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:355c:36eb:472a:5351] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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20140417 18:58:17-!- Octalot [~noct@27.74.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit []
20140417 19:00:25-!- ancestral is now known as ancestral-lunch
20140417 19:01:54-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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20140417 19:20:28-!- ancestral-lunch [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has quit [Quit: ancestral-lunch]
20140417 19:30:36-!- Wuzzy2 [~Wuzzy@p549FB67D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 19:33:54-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140417 19:37:04-!- claymore [~claymore@unaffiliated/claymore] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 19:48:06-!- falcon` is now known as Falcon`
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20140417 20:05:43-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 20:13:22-!- lipkab [~lipkab@apn-130-43-216-247.vodafone.hu] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 20:31:02-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20140417 20:34:05-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 20:53:29-!- deego [deego@gateway/shell/ww7.be/x-qjcqzdilfcnyrnqw] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 21:23:36-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140417 21:24:40-!- ancestral [~ancestral@17.114.44.242] has quit [Quit: ancestral]
20140417 21:39:15-!- celticminstrel [~celmin@unaffiliated/celticminstrel] has quit [Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!]
20140417 21:41:15-!- Johannes13_ [~Johannes@unaffiliated/johannes13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20140417 21:55:20-!- Oebele [~quassel@2001:610:1908:8000:3432:275a:9060:c7c5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140417 22:18:15-!- deathisundead [~deathisun@unaffiliated/deathisundead] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20140417 22:29:45-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20140417 22:32:34-!- c74d [~c74d3a4eb@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20140417 22:35:27-!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:1854:850c:54be:ca99] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 22:37:54-!- c74d [~c74d3a4eb@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 22:45:09-!- bhldev_ [~briandev@24-212-129-219.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 22:46:40-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140417 22:49:07-!- Elouin [~Elouin@p20030045275ACD00CA6000FFFED11D67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20140417 22:50:08-!- lipkab [~lipkab@apn-130-43-216-247.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20140417 22:51:26-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has quit [Quit: Computer's napping]
20140417 22:51:33-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 22:53:40-!- Falcon` is now known as falcon`
20140417 22:53:48-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Client Quit]
20140417 22:54:49-!- Haldrik [~haldrik@unaffiliated/haldrik] has quit [Quit: Haldrik]
20140417 22:59:33-!- JackBauer24 [~JackBauer@89-79-180-156.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20140417 23:02:43-!- bagzie [~bag@85-76-130-162-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit []
20140417 23:11:57-!- frank1e [~frank1e@unaffiliated/frank1e] has joined #wesnoth
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20140417 23:17:59-!- mattsc [~mattsc@wesnoth/developer/mattsc] has joined #wesnoth
20140417 23:20:27-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has joined #wesnoth
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 18 00:00:08 2014