--- Log opened Tue May 06 00:00:12 2014
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20140506 00:17:05< aquileia> shadowm: You will hate me for my initial commit: 10,000 new files!
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20140506 00:45:26< Aishiko> just make sure each file is referenced by name and what it does in the commit message aquileia 
20140506 00:46:20< aquileia> Aishiko: The mass commit is uploading the current state of the package... for some files, I don't even know whyt they are there for
20140506 00:46:30< aquileia> s/whyt/what
20140506 00:46:37< Aishiko> aquileia, it was a joke
20140506 00:46:59< aquileia> I know, but it's amusing to bang against it =P
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20140506 02:19:50< aquileia> gfgtdf: My boost version is 1.55.0
20140506 02:20:27< aquileia> If you happen to have the same version, you don't even need to upload the header files
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20140506 02:26:59< aquileia> gfgtdf: In that case, you would only have to upload the 18 + 2 .lib files of boost to https://github.com/aquileia/external/tree/VC10/lib
20140506 02:27:37< aquileia> 18 + 2 because it'd be nice to have the addition of boost_random as a separate commit if you don't mind
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20140506 02:52:33< aquileia> gfgtdf: Oh, and by the way, you have commit access to it - consider the VC10 branch yours ;)
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20140506 08:16:16< irker580> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master a7e7ade92d71 / src/game.cpp: Disable unit tests for SDL2 builds. http://git.io/Y-CkvQ
20140506 08:19:29< lipkab> iceiceice: ^ SDL2 doesn't have KillThread. They suggest that instead the worker thread should periodically check whether it needs to quit, but I don't see how that could be possible with run_unit_test. Any ideas?
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20140506 12:04:04< iceiceice> lipkab: So, I guess ultimately maybe could use C++11 threads?
20140506 12:05:17< iceiceice> in the meantime i would say it's not a big deal to just disable the timeout system in the move to SDL2 until we figure something else out
20140506 12:05:26< iceiceice> i think travis builds will automatically timeout anyways
20140506 12:05:59< iceiceice> maybe there is some other alternative available ...
20140506 12:07:27< AI0867> if a travis build times out, we get 'error' status though, rather than failure or success
20140506 12:08:00< iceiceice> hmmm...
20140506 12:08:08< iceiceice> well the thing i did anyways was pretty lame anyways...
20140506 12:08:16< iceiceice> using kill thread is really not a good idea usually afaik
20140506 12:08:48< iceiceice> i guess could just build the timer into like play_slice or something, but i didn't do that because i thought it would require more testing
20140506 12:09:33< iceiceice> i dont know, it is suprisingly difficult to actually make a "thread with a timer"
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20140506 12:15:30< AI0867> killthread has been deprecated in various libraries but that does make you depend on the thread's cooperation
20140506 12:15:53< AI0867> and there's a reason why cooperative multitasking is pretty much dead these days
20140506 12:15:56< iceiceice> i definitely noticed in testing that the error number i get back when i kill the thread is somewhat unpredictable
20140506 12:16:22< iceiceice> usually not a good sign :/
20140506 12:16:56< iceiceice> i figured that since we typically don't expect the unit tests to time out it's not really a big deal
20140506 12:17:24< iceiceice> but afaict when you just kill the worker thread that has an entire wesnoth loaded, probably all of that memory leaks...? i really have no idea
20140506 12:17:34< iceiceice> i think there is a good reason they deprecated it
20140506 12:18:25< AI0867> for example, java.lang.Thread.stop has been deprecated essentially forever, but it still exists
20140506 12:21:19< iceiceice> hmm i just noticed we have boost.thread as a dependency??
20140506 12:21:24< iceiceice> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Compilingwesnoth
20140506 12:21:40< iceiceice> i dont know how i missed that before
20140506 12:22:49< iceiceice> i guess i should just refactor to use boost thread
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20140506 13:34:15< irker400> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 1640856c77da / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/07_The_Desert_of_Death.cfg: SotBE S7: have scorpions target all side 1 units, not just Kapou'e http://git.io/K7IncA
20140506 13:35:48< irker400> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 9ade86541d4a / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/scenarios/07_The_Desert_of_Death.cfg: SotBE S7: have scorpions target all side 1 units, not just Kapou'e http://git.io/AcBN3Q
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20140506 14:52:06< mattsc> zookeeper: I’ve been going through Maiklas’ comments on SotBE, trying to decided what to do for 1.12, what for 1.13 and what not at all.
20140506 14:52:07< mattsc> He’s suggesting adding Rangers to the AI recruit lists in S7 Silent Forest.  Any opinion on that?
20140506 14:52:46< mattsc> Hmm, that would be S8, I guess.
20140506 14:57:13< zookeeper> i'd be extremely wary of adding them
20140506 14:57:31< zookeeper> lvl2 ambushers on the AI side? could be really annoying
20140506 14:57:56< zookeeper> my immediate alternate thought would be static wose ambushers
20140506 14:58:11< mattsc> Oh, we already have non-static woses.  :)
20140506 14:58:15< zookeeper> yeah
20140506 14:59:08< mattsc> He’s arguing that rangers in some respect are easier to deal with than marksmen, which we also have already.
20140506 14:59:15< zookeeper> i mean, ambushers are fine... but in a fogged scenario, you don't know that you should watch out for any
20140506 14:59:20< zookeeper> yes, definitely
20140506 14:59:57< mattsc> But I’d agree, at least for 1.12.  I wouldn’t want to do something like that without extensive play testing.
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20140506 15:00:15< mattsc> I might consider testing it for 1.13, maybe.
20140506 15:00:30< zookeeper> unfortunately the fog can't be removed without rewriting half the dialogue
20140506 15:02:01< mattsc> Right.  Also it’s clearly the intention of this scenario to have fog as one of the challenges and I didn’t want to change the character of any scenario too much when I did the rebalancing, even those that I don’t like all that much.
20140506 15:03:02< zookeeper> how about an AI which makes sure that you always see every ambusher at least once before it's allowed to move into a forest? :>
20140506 15:03:30< mattsc> Hehe …
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20140506 15:04:33< zookeeper> hmh
20140506 15:04:38< mattsc> I think I’ll leave it as is.  What do you think about his suggestion of adding 20 gold for the player?
20140506 15:05:06< mattsc> My take on this is that he managed to beat it on nightmare without save-loading.  That means it’s not too hard.  :P
20140506 15:05:34< zookeeper> i dunno. it's on nightmare and all, but on the other hand i guess it's not supposed to be the hardest scenario
20140506 15:05:57< mattsc> That’s true.  It certainly is not on medium.
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20140506 15:06:30< mattsc> Okay, 20 more or less gold won’t make much of a difference anyway.
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20140506 15:08:00< zookeeper> btw, the AI should be unable to have more than 1 marksman at a time
20140506 15:08:39< mattsc> Hmm.
20140506 15:09:30< mattsc> Oh, you mean that that is set like that already.  Yes, okay.
20140506 15:10:00< zookeeper> yep. he talks about them in plural, but i guess that doesn't mean he saw more than 1 at a time.
20140506 15:10:19< mattsc> Right.
20140506 15:10:21< mattsc> So I think I’ll give the player the extra 20 gold and call it good at that.
20140506 15:10:40< mattsc> All the other suggestions he’s making involve string changes, so those are out for 1.12 anyway.
20140506 15:10:53< zookeeper> that, or you could similarly drop both enemies' gold by 20
20140506 15:11:10< zookeeper> but whichever way is, unsurprisingly, fine by me
20140506 15:11:17< mattsc> :)
20140506 15:11:42< mattsc> I don’t think reducing the enemy gold is quite the same as their income is high (intentionally)
20140506 15:12:16< mattsc> Previously the scenario could be won quite easily by just sitting back and waiting out the first wave.  That’s not quite the same any more with the high income.
20140506 15:12:21< zookeeper> true
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20140506 15:13:00< mattsc> Btw, did you look into the problems he mentions due to the Horde bonus?
20140506 15:14:46< zookeeper> yeah, i think i have a fix, just haven't tested it yet
20140506 15:15:33< mattsc> Cool.  I’ll leave that one to you then.  :)
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20140506 15:39:33< irker400> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master 4584e3daf7a0 / Debian7-32.zip data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/utils.cfg: Fixed recalling sometimes invalidating undo http://git.io/2jfgtA
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20140506 15:42:42< Necrosporus> zookeeper, why would you want AI to help player?
20140506 15:42:56< irker400> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 f5355c3ff7fe / data/campaigns/Son_Of_The_Black_Eye/utils/utils.cfg: Fixed recalling sometimes invalidating undo http://git.io/d7Gtjw
20140506 15:43:19< Necrosporus> mattsc, which campaign are you discussing btw?
20140506 15:43:21< zookeeper> to prevent the ambushers from being a tomato surprise.
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20140506 15:44:46< mattsc> Son of the Black Eye
20140506 15:48:07< Necrosporus> I didn't play it yet
20140506 15:49:20< Necrosporus> I'm not sure why is ambushers such a problem?
20140506 15:50:49< mattsc> Necrosporus: you should play it then and you will see.  Units popping out of the fog and woods is one of the major challenges in thatscenario.
20140506 15:52:41< Necrosporus> Is 1.10 fine/
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20140506 15:53:48< mattsc> Well, it will show you the character of the scenario, but this discussion is about the rebalanced version in 1.11/1.12 (which is much harder).
20140506 15:53:49< Necrosporus> Somehow happens I didn't play most of official campaingns despite I am playing wesnoth for long time, starting from 1.8.0
20140506 15:54:13< Necrosporus> I also seen 1.6 but that time I didn't go past tutorilal
20140506 15:55:05< Necrosporus> mattsc, so in 1.11 SotBE is much harder than in 1.10 and it's why you are discussing how to make it easier, right?
20140506 15:55:55< mattsc> Well, it was made harder intentionally, we’re just discussing some minor tweaks to the final balance.
20140506 15:58:48< Necrosporus> I think giving player more gold is generally better than weakening enemy
20140506 16:00:40< Necrosporus> Only exception if number of units is so overhelming that you have to wait a while for AI turn
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20140506 16:04:29< Necrosporus> Wesnoth is not well designed to deal with more than 100 units simultaneously
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20140506 16:15:35< Soliton> wesnoth is not designed to deal with units simultaneously.
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20140506 17:39:32< gfgtdf> aquileia: for my local wesnoth i currently use boost 1.51 because that was teh latest version when i downloaded boost. Idk whether i can get the notivation to download + compile boost 1.55 if i don't need it
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20140506 18:04:06< mordante> servus
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20140506 20:05:33< aquileia> gfgtdf: Hi
20140506 20:06:20< aquileia> I didn't say we need 1.55, just said it's less work in case you have the same version
20140506 20:06:59< aquileia> 1.51 is great as well (I think we officially require 1.36)
20140506 20:10:56< gfgtdf> aquileia: ok
20140506 20:11:17< mordante> I'm off night
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20140506 20:11:37< gfgtdf> aquileia: soething else: where do we use the lua52.lib file ? I thought we already have teh lua sourcefile in teh project.
20140506 20:13:26< aquileia> I am aware we have a Wesnoth specific lua variant
20140506 20:13:36< aquileia> but as per https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/projectfiles/VC9/README.txt we need it
20140506 20:14:05< aquileia> It's listed as dependency no. 10
20140506 20:16:21< aquileia> gfgtdf: And it can't really hurt, the lua52 files aren't that big
20140506 20:16:55< gfgtdf> It can furtful confuse people
20140506 20:16:59< gfgtdf> hortful
20140506 20:17:03< gfgtdf> hurtful
20140506 20:17:07< aquileia> Boost is the biggest chunk, about 140 of 200 MB
20140506 20:17:53< aquileia> gfgtdf: If it compiles without it, great - but in that case we need to update the manual as well
20140506 20:19:02< aquileia> anonymissimus said that readme is the only reliable compilation of the Windows dependencies, but it wasn't really changed in years
20140506 20:20:09< gfgtdf> ye i'm reading teh commit message
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20140506 20:29:21< gfgtdf> aquileia: i also cannot find any file that ncluded teh external/include/lua.. files
20140506 20:29:25< gfgtdf> includes
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20140506 20:40:13< aquileia> gfgtdf: I can't find any include either
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20140506 21:10:22< aquileia> seems my build is broken due to something else, so I can't directly test whether it still works without lua
20140506 21:10:58< aquileia> gfgtdf, gfgtdf_: But I agree that it probably can be omitted
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20140506 21:18:43< aquileia> gfgtdf: For now - would you commit your boost libraries to the VC10 branch, please?
20140506 21:20:33< aquileia> The lua deletion will be in a separate commit anyhow
20140506 21:28:35< gfgtdf> aquileia: should i upload the header files too ?
20140506 21:29:29< aquileia> Unfortunately there are some differences between the headers of 1.51 and 1.55
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20140506 21:31:07< aquileia> So if you clone the repo and copy your boost dir over the one under external/include it should make a difference
20140506 21:43:42< gfgtdf> aquileia: I get a warning: LF will be replaced by CRLF in include/boost/pool/detail/pool_construct.sh.
20140506 21:43:44< gfgtdf> The file will have its original line endings in your working directory.
20140506 21:43:45< gfgtdf> Which sonds wrong to me because i  thought sh file usualy use linux  linengings
20140506 21:44:13< aquileia> I got the same warnings as well
20140506 21:45:07< gfgtdf> hm ok
20140506 21:46:37< gfgtdf> so i replace your boost 1_55 with my boost 1_51 includes ?
20140506 21:46:55< aquileia> that's the plan
20140506 21:47:32< aquileia> Then git will figure out which of them are different
20140506 21:49:19< gfgtdf> aquileia: ok when i use git commit --all there are still some untracked files and idk why
20140506 21:50:11< aquileia> I think you need git add -A (uppercase A)
20140506 21:55:35< gfgtdf> hm ok worked, buit i really thought cimmit --all woudl have the same effect.
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20140506 21:59:21< shadowm> Yeah, wouldn't it be nice if git commit -a automatically added everything including temporary and intermediate build files!
20140506 22:00:54< gfgtdf> shadowm: how can git know which files are temporary/build files if i don't have a gitignore file ?
20140506 22:01:19< shadowm> It doesn't. That's why git commit --all doesn't automatically add untracked files.
20140506 22:01:47< gfgtdf> aquileia: i pushed someting.
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20140506 22:06:00< aquileia> gfgtdf: Thanks for updating the header files
20140506 22:06:26< gfgtdf> aquileia: i added the lib files too.
20140506 22:06:45< gfgtdf> it's rather a downdating :)
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20140506 22:09:10< aquileia> gfgtdf: I can't see the lib files... hmm
20140506 22:09:42< aquileia> ah, it truncated the diff
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20140506 22:10:45< aquileia> gfgtdf: Would you mind if I split the boost_random in a separate commit and force push?
20140506 22:11:22< aquileia> And thanks again for the boost files
20140506 22:11:52< aquileia> Now I can update the wiki to point to the automatically created zip-archive of the branch
20140506 22:12:02< gfgtdf> no progblem i think.
20140506 22:23:52< Dugi> Guys, I need to ask a question regarding the game's philosophy, If a Dark Sorceress advances to a Lich, the lich should be female and get female traits (this matters when the game's translated). However, the Lich unit_type has no female gender so her she-resilient trait will become a he-resilient trait. Is this on purpose (apparently genderless monsters that aren't cute are always male) or just by neglection?
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20140506 22:25:03< Dugi> Asking because there is a Lich King unit in my campaign that can potentially advance from a Dark Sorceress and a Battlecruiser_Venca thinks that it should be a Lich Queen in that case instaead.
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20140506 22:32:48< aquileia> Dugi: Well, the English translation can avoid that completely by souvereign / lord / ...
20140506 22:37:59< aquileia> gfgtdf: I force pushed it, now I'll switch back to VC12 to test whether we need lua due to an obscure reason (I can only test while VC12 is checked out)
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20140506 22:57:46< shadowm> Dugi: I believe it's just coding pragmatism at work.
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20140506 22:59:44< shadowm> There is not much to gain from the gender distinction since en locale users would see exactly the same thing, and there is no visual distinction to speak of (yet), and so far nobody has complained, so it's been this way only because nobody has bothered to address the issue.
20140506 23:00:29< shadowm> For all intents and purposes, this approach is completely wrong.
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20140506 23:06:43< shadowm> Also, so far I've not heard of a single lich in Wesnoth that completely transcends their original identity (they retain their memories and behave generally the same they did in life with a minor cosmetic name change and added gradually-increasing insanity), so I would assume that their gender doesn't change either, Wesnoth's lack of attention to detail be damned.
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20140506 23:09:01< shadowm> Finally, gender-neutral pronouns do exist in English, and one that is used to refer to objects and animals by default is 'it(/its/it)'. This is a pretty basic English thing.
20140506 23:09:58< shadowm> (That last past is re your forum post <http://r.wesnoth.org/p570053>.)
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20140506 23:46:39-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
--- Log closed Wed May 07 00:00:07 2014