--- Log opened Sun May 11 00:00:53 2014
20140511 00:01:00< irker079> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 06e82eaa5568 / projectfiles/Xcode/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Xcode project update for 1.11.14 http://git.io/RVD-tw
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20140511 00:03:08< iceiceice> ok here's my version: http://pastebin.com/uM7wbWLM
20140511 00:03:51< iceiceice> i have to run out though, i will come to test this later on
20140511 00:05:20< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i just have a version ready too: http://pastebin.com/uG6Mhyv6
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20140511 00:10:33< mattsc> loonycyborg: I assume that you did not intentionally upload the 1.11.14 package to the 1.11.4 folder?
20140511 00:11:04< loonycyborg> hmm
20140511 00:12:31< loonycyborg> What exactly is wrong with that?
20140511 00:12:40< mattsc> 14 vs. 4 ?
20140511 00:12:50< loonycyborg> oh
20140511 00:12:55< loonycyborg> I'm kinda sleepy :P
20140511 00:13:06< mattsc> :)
20140511 00:14:20< mattsc> Ivanovic, shadowm: the OS X package is uploaded too
20140511 00:15:32 * shadowm won't start working on the announcement until tomorrow morning.
20140511 00:17:48< loonycyborg> moved the installed where it belongs..
20140511 00:17:53< loonycyborg> *installer
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20140511 00:59:23< iceiceice> gfgtdf: yours is a bit nicer :)
20140511 00:59:34< iceiceice> except that you use 8 spaces instead of tab character hehe
20140511 00:59:45< iceiceice> i mostly copied the implementation from things like team.hpp
20140511 00:59:49< iceiceice> team.cpp rather
20140511 01:00:02< iceiceice> maybe will STL-ize those also... idk
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20140511 01:12:09< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i think it's pastebin that makes the spaces. Yours might have spaces too :).
20140511 01:12:33< iceiceice> curse you pastebin :P
20140511 01:12:56< iceiceice> pastebin has been doing other annoying things now, like showing ads with videos at the bottom that play annoying sound...
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20140511 01:14:13< gfgtdf> idk i usually bock those things.
20140511 01:14:16< gfgtdf> block
20140511 01:14:39< iceiceice> hmm is there some blocker app for chrome that i dont have?
20140511 01:14:48< iceiceice> idk if i have any ...
20140511 01:14:51< gfgtdf> also i don't even have flash installed on this machine.
20140511 01:14:57< iceiceice> haha
20140511 01:15:20< iceiceice> gfgtdf: so i absent mindedly refactored my old one with the exact same indices
20140511 01:15:28< iceiceice> i think that [attack] uses +1 to the indices
20140511 01:15:35< iceiceice> like all the wml the users normally interact with
20140511 01:15:45< iceiceice> it seems to work
20140511 01:15:54< iceiceice> hehe i guess i can try the old incides also to make sure it fails
20140511 01:17:50< iceiceice> hmm its giving me a warning "20140510 21:17:00 warning replay: Old data, having to guess weapon"
20140511 01:18:19< gfgtdf> atribute defender_weapon missing ?
20140511 01:18:50< iceiceice> hmm i think that should be listed ont he wiki :)
20140511 01:19:38< gfgtdf> i think if you leave defender_weapon out the coe chooses the best weapon+gives a wanring, but im not sure
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20140511 01:23:48< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i think we can make that wanring a LOG, since the 'old_data' means actualy version 1.1.5 data which is quiet old
20140511 01:24:18< gfgtdf> iceiceice: and lettign teh defender choose the weapon yould be a useful feature.
20140511 01:24:26< iceiceice> yeah so the unit test passed when i didnt have defender weapon
20140511 01:24:27< gfgtdf> could*
20140511 01:24:36< iceiceice> the only thing that happened was the warning
20140511 01:25:04< gfgtdf> do do_replay worked properly  ?
20140511 01:25:09< gfgtdf> s/dp/sp
20140511 01:25:15< gfgtdf> s/sp/so
20140511 01:25:51< iceiceice> yeah it is working
20140511 01:25:56< iceiceice> at least with attacks
20140511 01:25:57< gfgtdf> :)
20140511 01:26:01< iceiceice> :)
20140511 01:26:03< iceiceice> uhm
20140511 01:26:07< iceiceice> i think i might change something else,
20140511 01:26:18< iceiceice> it looks that it gives a warning when you dont specify attacker type / defender type
20140511 01:26:31< iceiceice> because it complains about game_state vs empty
20140511 01:26:40< iceiceice> so i might make it so, if you dont specify those, it doesnt complain
20140511 01:26:58< gfgtdf> 'game_state vs empty' ?
20140511 01:27:30< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ^
20140511 01:27:34< iceiceice> here
20140511 01:27:44< iceiceice> i think that block should be,
20140511 01:28:02< iceiceice> if child.has_attribute("attacker_type") { ... }
20140511 01:28:28< iceiceice> oh i ddint paste
20140511 01:28:28< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/synced_commands.cpp#L175
20140511 01:28:31< iceiceice> hehe
20140511 01:30:00< iceiceice> idk maybe you want to have those checks,
20140511 01:30:17< iceiceice> maybe the [do_replay] handler should just be smarter and add missing things
20140511 01:30:44< iceiceice> right now to use it in wml you have to make sure to specify all that stuff if you dont want little warning messages
20140511 01:30:54< iceiceice> i guess its not really a big deal
20140511 01:30:58< gfgtdf> i didnt implement them i just moves that code, no i think the the code in synced_commands.cpp shouldn't give a wanring if there is no type specified
20140511 01:31:17< iceiceice> ok in that case, i think i'm going to add a check for has_attribute
20140511 01:31:54< gfgtdf> ye
20140511 01:32:34< iceiceice> hmm i think also 
20140511 01:33:01< iceiceice> maybe we could rename it from [do_replay] to [issue_command] or smth?
20140511 01:33:10< iceiceice> it might make it a little easier to understand
20140511 01:33:21< iceiceice> since the wml users wont really know about the replay codepath etc.
20140511 01:33:40< iceiceice> these things are all normally in [command] tags anyways?
20140511 01:33:42< iceiceice> right?
20140511 01:33:58< iceiceice> idk
20140511 01:35:38< iceiceice> or maybe [do_command]
20140511 01:36:48< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm idk, i didn t really thought baout that name for long.
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20140511 01:37:54< gfgtdf> i personally think the word 'command' is a little unspecific, becasue in programmign it's used quiet often.
20140511 01:38:50< iceiceice> maybe [do_action]
20140511 01:38:56< gfgtdf> yes they are usually in [command9s in replay
20140511 01:39:21< iceiceice> the wiki says: "The [command] tag is used to specify an action in a replay."
20140511 01:41:21< gfgtdf> but action is also used for wml actions.
20140511 01:41:32< gfgtdf> i really dont know
20140511 01:41:41< gfgtdf> how to call it
20140511 01:45:37< iceiceice> well... mostly i see it used for simulating player actions
20140511 01:45:39< iceiceice> like
20140511 01:45:43< iceiceice> move attack recruit recall
20140511 01:45:46< iceiceice> even disband i guess
20140511 01:45:56< iceiceice> fire_event is like a little easter egg i guess 
20140511 01:46:00< iceiceice> i dont even know what lua_ai does
20140511 01:46:34< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice: lua_ai executes lua, itas just named ai_.. becasue it was mainly used in ai i think.
20140511 01:46:44< iceiceice> oh wow 
20140511 01:46:52< iceiceice> hmm wait so why do we have that?
20140511 01:46:56< iceiceice> we already have [lua] tag?
20140511 01:47:11< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice	: [lua] is a wml action, 
20140511 01:47:36< iceiceice> i see but is there any reason to use [do_replay] [lua_ai] when we coudl just use [lua] ?
20140511 01:47:51< gfgtdf> yes when we a ar einsode a select event
20140511 01:47:56< gfgtdf> are
20140511 01:48:04< gfgtdf> insode.
20140511 01:48:07< iceiceice> ok
20140511 01:48:12< gfgtdf> inside*
20140511 01:48:54< iceiceice> so the thing is, [do_replay] doesnt really have anythign to do with the game's replay
20140511 01:48:59< iceiceice> so i think we need a better name somehow
20140511 01:49:27< iceiceice> it just uses the replay codepath
20140511 01:49:34< gfgtdf> well the wml syntax is the same.
20140511 01:50:02< iceiceice> except about the [command] tags
20140511 01:51:18< gfgtdf> hm ye, i don't relly like  that name , but i currently dont knwo any name that i like.
20140511 01:52:05< gfgtdf> iceiceice: when you ckick the 'raw' button in pastebin you'll see teh tabs again
20140511 01:52:13< iceiceice> ah ok thx
20140511 01:52:53< iceiceice> maybe [game_action]
20140511 01:55:14< iceiceice> ok... i'm done brainstorming... i think i actually like [do_command] best because then at least they may realize they can put things that are in command tags there
20140511 01:55:33< iceiceice> if they ever looked in a replay file
20140511 01:57:08< gfgtdf> hm ok.
20140511 01:58:08< iceiceice> idk if we get a better name can just change it,
20140511 01:58:19< iceiceice> i will mark this one experimental, there's obviously a ton of stuff that could be done with it
20140511 01:58:27< iceiceice> no way i will test it all
20140511 01:59:04< gfgtdf> what is the effect of marking something as experimental ?
20140511 02:04:44< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ^
20140511 02:06:09< iceiceice> idk it just means that i dont feel bad if i completely change it later 
20140511 02:06:24< gfgtdf> ok
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20140511 03:18:15< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 1f3b23ea1a9e / src/game_events/action_wml.cpp: add [do_command] wml action tag http://git.io/6t8u1g
20140511 03:18:17< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 654c066550bc / data/test/scenarios/unit_test_6.cfg: refactor test #6 to use [do_command] http://git.io/7TSjAg
20140511 03:18:19< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master ab0b63dc589d / src/synced_commands.cpp: change a warning to a log message, related to [attack] command http://git.io/JTf2lg
20140511 03:18:21< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master a37ec8bbdbee / data/test/scenarios/unit_test_6.cfg src/synced_commands.cpp: make [command] [attack] handler a bit friendlier http://git.io/CLz2mg
20140511 03:18:23< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 5cfdb137b393 / src/game_events/action_wml.cpp: remove [issue_attack_command], [issue_move_command] http://git.io/TivdxQ
20140511 03:22:41< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 17388d71a3d5 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/8z1Z9g
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20140511 05:39:24< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master e3d47b5f0294 / / (15 files in 2 dirs): rename wml unit tests http://git.io/T8GC-g
20140511 05:58:17< irker079> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master c52e5ed41060 / / (6 files in 2 dirs): add sanity checks for unit test mechanism http://git.io/94TmPA
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20140511 06:57:15< irker079> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 7af22d4aa371 / Doxyfile changelog players_changelog src/wesconfig.h: post release version bump to 1.11.14+dev http://git.io/0VoHVA
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20140511 14:07:33< mattsc> Ivanovic, shadowm, all: I sent the link to the OS X package to the person who tests that it works on OS X 10.5 (and it does) and he reports two pretty serious bugs that might warrant not releasing 1.11.14.
20140511 14:08:02< mattsc> I confirmed that they also happen on OS X 10.9, and I don’t think they are Mac specific.
20140511 14:09:01< mattsc> 1. If you click on a unit, you cannot deselect it and select another unit by clicking on the other unit.  You have to right-click to deselect first, then select the next unit.
20140511 14:10:22< mattsc> 2. Using the MOVE_UNIT macro, the unit is moved, but then it’s image disappears at the goal location (only the bar etc. remain), it briefly blinks at the original location and then its image disappears altogether (or sometimes it remains visible at the start location).
20140511 14:11:11< mattsc> I do not have time for testing this more right now, I just verified that this is happening for me as well in 1.11.14 (and not in 1.11.13), but I don’t think we should release 1.11.14 with those bugs.
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20140511 15:45:03< shadowm> Can anyone try to reproduce the issues mattsc described above on other OS?
20140511 15:46:08< shadowm> Perhaps also check whether it happens with the default configuration -- for those on Linux, the script utils/wesnoth-defaults might help with that.
20140511 15:47:34< Necrosporus> shadowm, why not just rename ~/.local/share/wesnoth/$ver temporarily?
20140511 15:47:54< shadowm> Yes there are like a thousand ways to achieve the same thing, that was just an idea.
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20140511 15:48:51< shadowm> Although my idea is better than yours by definition because it doesn't involve doing anything by hand.
20140511 15:49:52< Necrosporus> I usually prefer doing things by hand because this way I see exactly what happens
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20140511 15:54:58< shadowm> The point is that I'm not going to start writing the announcement until two more developers confirm whether the issue exists or not.
20140511 15:56:33< shadowm> I can confirm issue #1 with the 1.11.14 tag, both with the default configuration and with my current configuration.
20140511 15:57:49< shadowm> Also confirmed #2.
20140511 16:15:40< loonycyborg> hmm, I'll try to confirm #1 at least..
20140511 16:16:13< loonycyborg> but compiling takes time :P
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20140511 16:18:03< fabi> shadowm: I mentioned the behavior mattsc discovered already yesterday here in the channel. 
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20140511 16:20:31< shadowm> Then why does the topic still say "announcing 'soon'"? The current situation is not acceptable for the fifth and possibly last beta before RC 1.
20140511 16:20:50< shadowm> I refuse to announce 1.11.14 as it stands now.
20140511 16:22:13< fabi> Coffee_irc: Hello
20140511 16:23:21< shadowm> It's 02:23 in the west coast of Australia, doesn't he live there?
20140511 16:23:44< shadowm> (02:23 in the morning, to be precise.)
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20140511 16:23:48< irker555> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master ca5c64b6d1ba / src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): Fix a bunch of typos: syced -> synced http://git.io/ALxxPg
20140511 16:24:53< Necrosporus> I guess I have to place the track manually as trackplacer doesn't work for me
20140511 16:25:25< irker555> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 df77564aaeb3 / src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Fix a bunch of typos: syced -> synced http://git.io/ncIUKQ
20140511 16:27:12< mattsc> fabi: ah, ok, I hadn’t seen that.  I wasn’t around much yesterday (and won’t be today), so I only scanned over the IRC logs.
20140511 16:27:47< mattsc> Also, I didn’t discover it, just verified and reported it.  So I can’t take credit for it.  :)
20140511 16:28:09< loonycyborg> hmm I definitely have #1
20140511 16:30:10< loonycyborg> hmm
20140511 16:30:20< loonycyborg> but it only applies to player controlled units
20140511 16:31:07< shadowm> "Only".
20140511 16:31:21< shadowm> :p
20140511 16:31:22< loonycyborg> if I click on non-player controlled archmage from test scenario
20140511 16:31:34< loonycyborg> I can select other units by clicking on them
20140511 16:32:10< loonycyborg> But I can't select other units when a unit I control is selected
20140511 16:32:40< shadowm> It's too bad that people most often need to select their own units.
20140511 16:33:22< loonycyborg> yeah, very unfortunate indeed
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20140511 18:07:52-!- Ivanovic changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.14 (1.12 beta 5) is too buggy to be announced | string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 241 bugs, 344 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140511 18:07:59< Ivanovic> shadowm: you could also have changed the topic...
20140511 18:30:59< shadowm> Except that I'm not the one who makes decisions here.
20140511 18:31:24 * shadowm will be off for the rest of the day.
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20140511 18:39:00< loonycyborg> I've updated my windows dev environment to use SDL_mixer 1.2.12, so I can try out that PR for using RWops..
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20140511 19:26:24< Necrosporus> Why [recall] recalls only one unit? I want to recall all units matching given filter... Though maybe I should use foreach or [while]
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20140511 19:50:54< Necrosporus> Seems like I can't use units from recall to say stuff with message
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20140511 21:01:11< Coffee_irc> hi fabi
20140511 21:01:21< fabi> hi Coffee_irc
20140511 21:01:28< Coffee_irc> it was indeed 2AM or something when you spoke earlier :)
20140511 21:01:57< fabi> Coffee_irc: I wonder if the bug that prevents friendly units to get selected was introduced by your fixes for my bugs.
20140511 21:02:23< Coffee_irc> something like this was bound to happen :P
20140511 21:02:47< fabi> The release was delayed because of it and that makes me feel guilty.
20140511 21:02:49< Coffee_irc> I thought I tested everything, but I did not test for friendly unit selection
20140511 21:03:15< Coffee_irc> the control changes needed to be done
20140511 21:03:28< Coffee_irc> and split into the 'actions' folder like you did
20140511 21:04:17< Coffee_irc> fabi: is there a bug report?
20140511 21:04:55< fabi> Coffee_irc: I think not.
20140511 21:05:15< Coffee_irc> not another one :P
20140511 21:05:34< fabi> The split into the actions folders was not done by me.
20140511 21:05:35< Coffee_irc> and devs sometimes complain to users on the forums to write bug reports if they want something fixed ;)
20140511 21:05:45< Coffee_irc> tsk, tsk
20140511 21:05:55< fabi> :-)
20140511 21:09:09< Coffee_irc> fabi: so what's the problem exactly?
20140511 21:09:12< loonycyborg> And do you know something about the other bug?
20140511 21:09:29< loonycyborg> The one with unit movement via wml..
20140511 21:09:29< Coffee_irc> loonycyborg: no
20140511 21:09:46< Coffee_irc> because you guys don't file bug reports :P
20140511 21:09:50< loonycyborg> I found that you can easily repro it by starting dead water
20140511 21:11:32< fabi> Coffee_irc: Just play a campaign, you will notice it soon. If one of your units is selected you can't select another one of yours without deselecting first. 
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20140511 21:14:58< Coffee_irc> fabi: oh, ok
20140511 21:15:16< Coffee_irc> I don't think I ever do that :P
20140511 21:16:01< fabi> hihi
20140511 21:16:43< Coffee_irc> loonycyborg: I don't think I would have introduced the movement WML bug
20140511 21:19:57< Coffee_irc> fabi: I'm just resetting the HEAD of my local branch to see if my changes introduced the friendly unit selection bug
20140511 21:23:06< Coffee_irc> it's times like this that I wish I had a processor with hyperthreading
20140511 21:24:24< Coffee_irc> fabi: ok, I am to blame for this selection bug
20140511 21:24:53< fabi> Coffee_irc: Well, it is more me to blame, for introducing the original bug.
20140511 21:25:28< Coffee_irc> I introduced it in 9f4f8c35f11045c9a16c7cbf9c4568bd78993c8d
20140511 21:26:01< fabi> Coffee_irc: Why do you want hyperthreading?
20140511 21:26:32< Coffee_irc> fabi: I just bought a new laptop (clevo beast) and my desktop that I use for development is so slow in comparison to compile
20140511 21:27:01< Coffee_irc> I have an old i5 processor without hyperthreading and I can only compile with 3 processors in use
20140511 21:27:30< vultraz> Old i5 as in 1st gen?
20140511 21:27:38< Coffee_irc> vultraz: yeah
20140511 21:27:44< vultraz> ah
20140511 21:27:48< vultraz> I have an i5 3rd gen
20140511 21:28:00< vultraz> dual w/ hyperthreading
20140511 21:28:49< Coffee_irc> I wouldn't mind but I've seen how fast my new laptop compiles and now I think my desktop sucks :P
20140511 21:29:30< vultraz> xD
20140511 21:29:33< fabi> Okay, I wonder if it is the HT that makes things fast. 
20140511 21:29:57< Coffee_irc> fabi: on my laptop I can useually compile with speedup of 7 processors/threads
20140511 21:30:20< vultraz> Well it does double the functional number of cores
20140511 21:30:48< fabi> But not the speed.
20140511 21:31:23< vultraz> More cores = more files building simultaneously = lower overall build time
20140511 21:33:15< vultraz> Coffee_irc: what's your clock speed?
20140511 21:33:27< Coffee_irc> vultraz: 3.3 GHz
20140511 21:33:34< vultraz> dayum o_O
20140511 21:33:42< vultraz> I only have 2.6
20140511 21:33:46< Coffee_irc> but newer models are much faster at same or less clock speed
20140511 21:35:42< Coffee_irc> fabi: in src/mouse_events.cpp the function mouse_handler::select_or_action, I'm wondering why the complex expression in the first place?
20140511 21:35:54< Coffee_irc> when you click on any unit, don't you want to select them?
20140511 21:36:06< fabi> line?
20140511 21:36:21< Coffee_irc> 503
20140511 21:37:07< Coffee_irc> I'm thinking of just changing the expression to if ( clicked_u != resources::units->end() ) { ... }
20140511 21:40:02< fabi> This would mean you no longer can attack an enemy unit.
20140511 21:40:26< Coffee_irc> fabi: oh :P
20140511 21:40:28< Coffee_irc> of course
20140511 21:40:40< fabi> Might be a good thing. I always felt that attacking feature makes Wesnoth somehow violent.
20140511 21:51:00< irker555> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master be333c535bcc / src/ (actions/undo.cpp actions/undo.hpp replay.cpp synced_commands.cpp): fix replay of delayed shroud updates (21986) http://git.io/Dnis2A
20140511 21:51:02< irker555> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 4a81ab00188c / src/ (play_controller.cpp playmp_controller.cpp): fix linger mode in mp (21985) http://git.io/4-jxow
20140511 21:51:04< irker555> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 64e69cd6539a / src/actions/undo.cpp: save replaydata of the undostack http://git.io/hTp0Lw
20140511 21:55:16< Coffee_irc> fabi: got it
20140511 21:55:34< Coffee_irc> I introduced the problem when trying to solve the problem of how to undo a premove
20140511 21:57:10< irker555> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth:1.12 461fd9dbfd9d / changelog src/mouse_events.cpp: Reallow selection of another unit on same side without deselect first http://git.io/rNMRgg
20140511 21:59:52< irker555> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth:master 6872838ee320 / changelog src/mouse_events.cpp: Reallow selection of another unit on same side without deselect first http://git.io/Hx8iGw
20140511 22:00:10< Coffee_irc> fabi: ^ fixed :)
20140511 22:00:39< Coffee_irc> except they still attack each other
20140511 22:01:31< Coffee_irc> have to head off to work here, so bye
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20140511 22:27:58< mattsc> Coffee_irc: well, as I said, I’m not much around today (barely at all, in fact).  So it was either mentioning the problems quickly or not saying anything (in which case we might have announced the release with the bugs in it).
20140511 22:28:30< mattsc> Filing a bug report (or two, rather) was not a viable option.  :P
20140511 22:28:40< mattsc> And with that, I’m off again …
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20140511 22:42:39< shadowm> People comparing cpu sizes^Wspecs again?
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20140511 22:56:40-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: 1.11.14 (1.12 beta 5) is too buggy to be announced | string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 239 bugs, 344 feature requests, 28 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140511 23:05:05< fabi> shadowm: I always thought HyperThreading was about using cores which are busy with io blocked threads to do another thread between. Since compiling is not very io heavy it should not benefit from HyperThreading much.
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20140511 23:08:42< shadowm> I don't really know how HT is implemented, TBH, but I think Intel claimed at some point that they had solved the original implementation's inefficiencies.
20140511 23:10:13< shadowm> I haven't gone and verified whether compiling on 4 physical cores vs 8 virtual cores makes any difference here for a multitude of reasons.
20140511 23:12:52< shadowm> I mean, it's not exactly trivial to isolate tasks in such a way that you can be sure they are running all on specific cores and that *nothing else is running at the same time*. The point of a modern operating system with automatic, multicore-aware (and even HT-aware) task scheduling is that you don't need to worry about those details unless you are a device driver.
20140511 23:13:11< shadowm> Or any other kind of privileged thread.
20140511 23:14:40< shadowm> As far as subjectivity goes, I find my desktop to be a massive upgrade over a budget dual-core Pentium (no HT, not even VT-x) laptop, and that's all I really care about when I need to get work done.
20140511 23:16:03< shadowm> Compiling Wesnoth, Linux, even Qt 5, is fast enough for my needs and the only bottleneck from my point of view is the hard disk drive since it's, well, a hard disk drive.
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20140511 23:17:46< shadowm> I can run three, four, even more virtual machines on VirtualBox at the same time I'm working with weighty interactive applications such as Kate or Firefox on the host, and could not notice a general slowdown even if I made an effort. Compiling Wesnoth on VMs is also nearly as fast as it is natively.
20140511 23:19:03< shadowm> And I feel that if I went and made objective benchmarks of every single thing I would never get actual work done.
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20140511 23:20:06< fabi_> Well, I am thinking about a new machine to buy soon. And compiling Wesnoth is so far the killer use case.
20140511 23:20:34< shadowm> So yeah maybe some day SDD technology will seem reliable and worthwhile enough to me to actually go and invest more money on a 256 GiB drive than I would need for a 4 TiB HDD.
20140511 23:20:39< fabi_> Thus I wonder if I should buy an intel cpu with hyperthreading or an amd one which does not support ht.
20140511 23:21:09< shadowm> Goddammit, I keep making that mistake.
20140511 23:21:13< shadowm> s/SDD/SSD/
20140511 23:22:25< fabi_> shadowm: My SSD works for almost 5 years now without any problems. We also had much less problems with ssd than hdd at work. I think the technology is already there since some years. My SSD on this machine is only 32GB in size, holding only the OS and some performance critical stuff. SSD are not meant to replace the hdd but to work in team.
20140511 23:24:26< shadowm> Near-instant boot-ups sound enticing for sure, but after things enter the inode cache I'm not too sure the performance gain is worth the investment.
20140511 23:25:05< vultraz> All I'll say is this SSHD is snappier
20140511 23:25:09< shadowm> I'd still have /home on a HDD, and that's where all the large cache-unfriendly stuff is.
20140511 23:26:21< shadowm> I don't go through full boot cycles too often either, since I hibernate most of the time.
20140511 23:26:32< fabi_> shadowm: Even applikations which are fully cached in RAM are starting much faster, they do a lot of small file handling on disc in most cases. I would never want to go back to a machine without SSD, the boost was just incredible.
20140511 23:26:57< shadowm> Also my /tmp (which KDE loves to use a lot for some reason?) is a tmpfs mount.
20140511 23:27:29< fabi_> Same here, /tmp is on a ramdisk to decrease the write events on the ssd.
20140511 23:27:50< shadowm> Not /var/tmp, sadly, because that one is apparently not actually expected to be volatile. That would probably benefit from an SSD a lot -- plasma keeps large pixmap caches there.
20140511 23:28:13< shadowm> Also icon caches, etc.
20140511 23:28:48< fabi_> I bet if you ever try a SSD yourself you will murder to not give it away again.
20140511 23:29:36< shadowm> Yeah, most likely.
20140511 23:30:50< shadowm> Being able to read application files and configuration in parallel is also a sure performance boost opportunity.
20140511 23:31:57< shadowm> (Not that that usually happens within a single process, but still.)
20140511 23:32:02< fabi_> And my old SSD is still a quite slow one only about 160MB/sec read and 80MB/sec write. Modern drives do much faster.
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--- Log closed Mon May 12 00:00:54 2014