--- Log opened Sun Jun 22 00:00:40 2014
20140622 00:03:07-!- iceiceice_ [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140622 00:04:38< iceiceice_> ok
20140622 00:04:46< iceiceice_> gfgtdf: i think it would be good if mp_game_title is preserved at top level
20140622 00:04:53< iceiceice_> otherwise we will have to change the script
20140622 00:05:08< iceiceice_> i assume that mp_era is still there in [multiplayer]?
20140622 00:05:10< iceiceice_> that is expected
20140622 00:05:29< iceiceice_> the hard part of the script is getting the player names without getting duplciates
20140622 00:05:44< iceiceice_> that took quite a while, because there are many places the names are duplicated
20140622 00:05:59< gfgtdf> is didnt chenges teh content of [multiplayer]
20140622 00:06:02< iceiceice_> ok
20140622 00:06:12< iceiceice_> so the server replay is currently like,
20140622 00:06:24< iceiceice_> [replay_start] = just the level config sent from the host
20140622 00:06:31< iceiceice_> which is not really correct
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20140622 00:07:14< iceiceice_> idk the script actually might just be broken in any reasonable refactor
20140622 00:07:19< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: no
20140622 00:07:32< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: normal replay saves from server dotn contain replay_start anymore
20140622 00:07:42< gfgtdf> they contain [scenario]
20140622 00:07:55< iceiceice_> hmm
20140622 00:08:02< iceiceice_> ok that means we should change the script,
20140622 00:08:05< iceiceice_> it won't get any player names
20140622 00:08:27< gfgtdf> now reloaded servergenerated replay shoudl also work thought i dint test
20140622 00:08:42< iceiceice_> ok if you did that that is great :)
20140622 00:08:54< iceiceice_> the way i made it work in the past,
20140622 00:09:04< iceiceice_> i search inside the [replay_start] tag basically,
20140622 00:09:12< iceiceice_> but i drop snapshot
20140622 00:09:20< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: i update this page: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SaveFileWML#The_format_for_Wesnoth_savegames
20140622 00:09:21< iceiceice_> trying to get just the [side] tags from the level config
20140622 00:09:52< gfgtdf> 	iceiceice_: [side] must not be searched inside [scenario] and [snapshot]
20140622 00:10:13-!- shadowm_desktop [ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowm] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140622 00:10:15< iceiceice_> y so there were lots of options
20140622 00:10:25< iceiceice_> the main thing that made it hard is,
20140622 00:10:30< gfgtdf> its [snapshot] for reloaded games and [scenario] for fresh games or reloaded start of scenario saves
20140622 00:11:09< iceiceice_> hmm
20140622 00:11:22< iceiceice_> maybe we should just make an "mp_server_metadata" tag
20140622 00:11:24< iceiceice_> at top level
20140622 00:11:27< iceiceice_> generated by server to contain this stfuf
20140622 00:11:33< iceiceice_> its really a pain to generate it in sed
20140622 00:11:34< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: thats is more or less what [multiplayer] is
20140622 00:11:46< iceiceice_> y but it doesn't contain the stuff we need
20140622 00:12:03< iceiceice_> theres no game title or list of players
20140622 00:12:09< iceiceice_> also i guess now we w ould like to have a lsit of mods
20140622 00:12:28< iceiceice_> maybe should add a field "server_description"
20140622 00:12:33< iceiceice_> and construct it in mp_connect_engine
20140622 00:12:42< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: there is a lot of mods aswell as a title
20140622 00:12:46< iceiceice_> this sed thing is pretty much garbage anyways
20140622 00:12:48< gfgtdf> list of mods
20140622 00:13:20< shadowm> gfgtdf: Nowhere. It doesn't save replays.
20140622 00:13:28< gfgtdf> [multiplayer]active_mods= & [multiplayer]scenario= 
20140622 00:13:36< gfgtdf> shadowm: is there a reason ?
20140622 00:13:58< iceiceice_> gfgtdf: i dont think the [multiplayer] tag has a list of players?
20140622 00:14:05< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: no it don't
20140622 00:14:19< gfgtdf> doesn't
20140622 00:14:34< iceiceice_> yeah
20140622 00:14:36< shadowm> I don't think there is a reason. That server is for testing only and there's really no point in saving replays of the "games" played in it, much like there's no point in recording lobby chat logs for IRC either.
20140622 00:14:38< iceiceice_> it doesnt have the game title either
20140622 00:14:50< iceiceice_> shadowm: but what if we want to test that the server generated replays are working
20140622 00:14:51< gfgtdf> [multiplayer]scenario= 
20140622 00:15:00< iceiceice_> gfgtdf: thats just the name of the scenario
20140622 00:15:06< shadowm> Things tend to be done for a reason, not for the sake of being done, so if there is no reason to save replays, there are no replays.
20140622 00:15:07< iceiceice_> the mp_game_title is the name you typed in for the game lobby
20140622 00:15:12< iceiceice_> thats usually waht you want to search for
20140622 00:15:14< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: scenario="po’s game" in my save im wathcing at
20140622 00:15:19< iceiceice_> hmmm
20140622 00:15:44< shadowm> iceiceice_: Then you tell me "hey shadowm could we have the trunk server temporarily save replays to a location for us to test stuff" and hand me a box of chocolates.
20140622 00:16:45< iceiceice_> ok, pretty please can the trunk server save replays to 1.13 folder? 
20140622 00:16:49< iceiceice_> your chocolates are in the mail
20140622 00:17:08< shadowm> Just to make things clear, my mission here is mostly to maintain the status quo (sp. keep the server operative in the event of issues). If you absolutely need to know why X is done in a certain way, Soliton is more likely to know than me.
20140622 00:17:49< shadowm> Unless it's some technicality I changed myself during the asheviere->baldras migration, in which case I am more likely to know.
20140622 00:21:42< gfgtdf> does the server some trick to not write empty attributes ?
20140622 00:22:03< iceiceice_> what do you mean?
20140622 00:22:36-!- Laundry [~austin@pool-71-166-34-122.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140622 00:23:02< Laundry> Does anyone know where the experimental lobby for multiplayer is?
20140622 00:23:07< Laundry> like the file
20140622 00:23:12< gfgtdf> i just looked at servergenerated savefile and i dotn know why some attributes that normal savefiles have ar emissing
20140622 00:23:23< gfgtdf> i ditn know there is an experimental lobby
20140622 00:24:24< iceiceice_> Laundry: i think theres some preference
20140622 00:24:26< Laundry> Yes, if you go to settings -> advanced there is a tick box to show the experimental Lobby
20140622 00:24:50< Laundry> iceiceice_: I know, but I can't seem to find the code for it
20140622 00:25:21< iceiceice_> it must be in the gui folder, thats where all the gui 2 code is
20140622 00:25:51< Laundry> iceiceice: Ok, I'll check once I'm finished with what I'm doing. Thanks.
20140622 00:25:57< Laundry> iceiceice_: ^
20140622 00:26:06< iceiceice_> Laundry: np :)
20140622 00:26:45< iceiceice_> gfgtdf: idk, maybe the "simple_wml" suppresses empty fields?
20140622 00:26:52< iceiceice_> i dont really know if it does or doesnt
20140622 00:27:08< gfgtdf> ice but there are some emlty files inside of [replay] .. send=""
20140622 00:27:24< shadowm> Laundry: src/gui/dialogs/lobby*.?pp, src/gui/dialogs/lobby/*, data/gui/default/window/lobby*.cfg
20140622 00:27:33< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: wait i check whererthose are sended to the server
20140622 00:27:51< shadowm> Laundry: The dialog interface and implementation in C++, the dialog interface and implementation in C++, and the WML defining its layout, respectively.
20140622 00:28:20< Laundry> Shadowm: Thanks. 
20140622 00:29:11< shadowm> Laundry: You probably shouldn't get your hopes too high, though. Most of the dialog's brokenness stems from GUI2 functionality mordante hasn't finished implementing/polishing or is still missing.
20140622 00:29:29< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: here: http://pastebin.com/pYzm6kye#
20140622 00:29:48< Laundry> shadowm: Ok. I'll just fix the bug on the "old" lobby
20140622 00:29:52< gfgtdf> the empty tags are soemhow not existent in teh server save
20140622 00:30:00< gfgtdf> atributes
20140622 00:30:26< shadowm> iceiceice_: Done, the directory name is "trunk" though (I don't want to mix it up with the future 1.13 server).
20140622 00:30:29< iceiceice_> the logging data is from host sending to server?
20140622 00:30:38< iceiceice_> shadowm: thanks :)
20140622 00:30:39< gfgtdf> yes
20140622 00:30:43< gfgtdf> shadowm ty
20140622 00:31:22< shadowm> Also, I haven't tested it yet, you'll need to play a public game there to see what happens (although if my memory serves there's no additional set-up needed).
20140622 00:32:08< shadowm> Replays are published every 5 minutes approximately.
20140622 00:33:37< Laundry> Well
20140622 00:34:05< Laundry> I didn't read bug 15893 correctly
20140622 00:34:13< Laundry> It's only the new MP server
20140622 00:34:28< Laundry> so I'll quit development on that and find a new one.
20140622 00:36:16< irker826> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth:master 0997a1c4bf8e / src/multiplayer_create.cpp: Fix initial MP dep check on first scenario instead of last played. Menu size wor http://git.io/XcOfPQ
20140622 00:36:24< shadowm> It was kind of really important at the time (1.8.0) because the experimental lobby was the only option due to a planning mistake. Later the classic lobby was brought back as the default in 1.8.1.
20140622 00:36:44< irker826> wesnoth: David Mikos wesnoth:1.12 acb02f579657 / changelog src/multiplayer_create.cpp: Fix initial MP dep check on first scenario instead of last played. Menu size wor http://git.io/Ygn9IA
20140622 00:36:54< iceiceice_> Laundry: another place to look for bugs is the easy coding lists / not so easy coding lists on the wiki
20140622 00:37:10< gfgtdf> iceiceice_: ok works: http://replays.wesnoth.org/trunk/20140622/
20140622 00:37:14< iceiceice_> also if you want to fix a really old bug, the statistics is apparently totally broken,
20140622 00:37:32< shadowm> Coffee_irc: You are writing your commit messages wrong. You have to format them like emails. (Subject line, empty line, full description follows.)
20140622 00:37:38< iceiceice_> since like i think every version, i think recall cost is not calculated correctly,
20140622 00:37:56< iceiceice_> jozrael reported a bug a few days ago that he recalled a white mage and it put "40" not "20" which he paid in the statistics
20140622 00:37:58< Laundry> iceiceice_: Thanks. I'm determined to fix something. I shall fix this even if it literally kills me.
20140622 00:37:58< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I am doing them from command line
20140622 00:38:05< shadowm> Coffee_irc: The fact that you had to insert a stop in the not-quite-a-subject line goes to show how wrong you are doing them. :p
20140622 00:38:09< iceiceice_> i ran git blame on the statistics code for recalls, i think it dates from 200
20140622 00:38:10< iceiceice_> *2006
20140622 00:38:37< shadowm> Coffee_irc: So? That doesn't change the fact that that isn't the correct format.
20140622 00:38:41< iceiceice_> also if you fix that, you should be careful that theres some funny business going on with recall costs,
20140622 00:38:57< Laundry> iceiceice_: I'll see what I can do.
20140622 00:38:59< iceiceice_> Aishiko added a feature that teams can have variable recall cost or something
20140622 00:39:08< iceiceice_> i think its like if one of the recall costs is negative you are supposed to check the other one
20140622 00:39:17< Coffee_irc> shadowm: ok, I'll look it up how to insert blank lines :)
20140622 00:39:19< iceiceice_> but Aishiko also didn't fix the statistics :/
20140622 00:39:36< shadowm> If for some reason you can't let git use a text editor and need to use -m and you are on a Unix shell, you can write it like this: `-m "Subject here\n\nDescription"`
20140622 00:39:40< Laundry> iceiceice_: I'm literally going to die aren't I?
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20140622 00:39:54< iceiceice_> hehe i dont think its so bad, you'll figure it out
20140622 00:40:09< Coffee_irc> shadowm: I'll use \n\n from now on
20140622 00:40:13< Laundry> Just wondering, how old are you guys?
20140622 00:40:14< shadowm> Coffee_irc: But seriously, you really should use a text editor instead, don't be lazy (neither with the subject nor the descriptions, descriptions help people figure out why a commit was done if they later find problems with it).
20140622 00:40:54< iceiceice_> there's also other things i can suggest, idk ther's lots of random things that are broken
20140622 00:41:22< iceiceice_> if you ever feel like a project where you look at something for a few hours and then make a minor but tangible improvement to something, wesnoth has alot of those
20140622 00:42:02< Coffee_irc> Laundry: like in all large OS projects we range in ages quite widely
20140622 00:43:09< iceiceice_> Laundry: i'm 26
20140622 00:43:23< Laundry> I'm 17
20140622 00:43:37< Laundry> I feel so young :D
20140622 00:48:03< Coffee_irc> Laundry: around this time in the wesnoth dev cycle most of the low hanging fruit of bugs have likely been sovled unfortunately for you
20140622 00:48:24< Coffee_irc> we are (in theory) about to release a new stable version soon
20140622 00:49:28< shadowm> Are we, really?
20140622 00:49:40< Coffee_irc> I thought so :P
20140622 00:49:45< Laundry> Coffee_irc: Ok. Thanks for the information. Should I wait until then to pick up a bug?
20140622 00:49:58< shadowm> I was taking a look at the bug list earlier and pretty much all of it looks complicated and important to me (but most importantly complicated).
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20140622 00:51:06< Coffee_irc> Laundry: just my opinino htere, but there are many small improvements that can be made to make a player's experience better all over the place for 1.13
20140622 00:51:21< Coffee_irc> *opinion
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20140622 00:51:52< Laundry> Coffee_irc: Like the statistics thing?
20140622 00:52:48< shadowm> The recall costs statistics issue is specific to 1.13.0-dev, though?
20140622 00:53:16< Coffee_irc> I'm not familiar with the statistics thing
20140622 00:53:38< shadowm> Unless it's piling up on top of a preexisting issue (per-side recall costs already existed in 1.11.x, Aishiko's work was merely about individual units and unit types).
20140622 00:53:45< Laundry> Then what improvments did you have in mine?
20140622 00:54:39< Coffee_irc> Laundry: hypothetically, say you notice that a dialog box goes over important information on the map and it could be made a bit smaller
20140622 00:54:48< Coffee_irc> that kind of thing is noticed by players
20140622 00:55:14< Laundry> Coffee_irc: OOH. oooookkkkkk
20140622 00:55:35< Laundry> Coffee_irc: I'll look for things like that. Thanks for the idea!
20140622 00:55:36< Coffee_irc> or an actual usage case, the menus in the create game dialog for MP do not stretch and line up automatically well
20140622 00:55:48 * shadowm wishes somebody would remind him to draft actual UI guidelines.
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20140622 00:56:10< iceiceice_> Coffee_irc: i looked into jozrael's report, it looks like statistics for recalls is totally broken and has been since 2006
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20140622 00:56:26< iceiceice_> idk maybe in 2006 recalls did not cost differently from recruits or something
20140622 00:56:27< shadowm> I've done a lot of work to keep things consistent over the past couple of years but it tends to go to waste when people add new features.
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20140622 00:58:03< iceiceice_> shadowm: imo part of the reason things break is that we don't use the observer pattern enough
20140622 00:58:11< Coffee_irc> Laundry: well, looks like the statistics bug might be a good place to start after all
20140622 00:58:33< shadowm> iceiceice_: Observer pattern?
20140622 00:58:36< Laundry> Coffee_irc: Do you or anyone else know where the file that holds that is?
20140622 00:58:39< iceiceice_> for instance if we had an actual game_state class or something, we could code the statistics to be an observer of game state
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20140622 00:59:03< Coffee_irc> Laundry: use your file search to look for strings
20140622 00:59:10< Coffee_irc> that appear in the game
20140622 00:59:11< iceiceice_> and when a new unit is added / gold changes for some reason, the gamestate tells the observer
20140622 00:59:25< Coffee_irc> Laundry: this is the quickest way I find something
20140622 00:59:29< iceiceice_> so then later if someone changes the way gold is calculated, you dont have to write duplicate code for the statistics update
20140622 00:59:37< Laundry> Coffee_irc: Ok. I understand.
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20140622 01:00:05< iceiceice_> many of the modules right now expect that all of the "work" is done in elike play_controller, or action_wml
20140622 01:00:13< iceiceice_> and expect that the programmer of that code will give them any important updates
20140622 01:00:25< iceiceice_> and if that doesnt happen, we get bugs
20140622 01:00:31< Coffee_irc> Laundry: what I would do then is introduce 'std::cout << "here"' statements and figure out the flow
20140622 01:01:00< Laundry> Coffee_irc: Ok. That makes sense
20140622 01:01:24< shadowm> Coffee_irc: cerr, not cout.
20140622 01:01:34< Coffee_irc> Laundry: then once you've seen which order and where things happen, try changing the code
20140622 01:01:49< Laundry> shadowm: Why cerr?
20140622 01:02:21< shadowm> cout is a bad idea because our logging facilities use cerr. cout is buffered, cerr is not, so if you send stuff to cout and then to cerr, you might get the output in the wrong order.
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20140622 01:02:40< Laundry> shadowm: Ok. I'll use cerr.
20140622 01:03:30< shadowm> This is particularly important in the event of a crash; in some cases the process might be unable to flush its streams before ending, so you can miss some output if it's sent to a buffered stream.
20140622 01:03:57< Laundry> shadowm: I just looked up cerr, and that's what it said. I understand it now.
20140622 01:05:35< Laundry> ALso one more question. I'm using Code::Blocks. How would I compile the whole thing within that and run it so I can read the cerr debug line?
20140622 01:07:22< shadowm> I've compiled with CB on Windows but I always run Wesnoth on an external console... not that it makes a difference on Windows since SDL forces stdout and stderr to be written to files instead of the attached console.
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20140622 01:08:28< Laundry> Where are the outputs written too?
20140622 01:08:56< shadowm> Though, if you are on Windows with mingw is possible to run `tail -f stderr.txt` (from the directory where wesnoth.exe is located) to watch stderr.txt's contents as they are updated.
20140622 01:09:48< shadowm> I kind of got mingw for free when I installed Git, though, so not everyone would have that available.
20140622 01:10:21< shadowm> (It *is* free, but it's a pain to download and install.)
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20140622 01:13:25< Laundry> shadowm: ok. 
20140622 01:13:45< Laundry> shadowm: I'm on linux so I can use the tail with anything
20140622 01:14:27< shadowm> On Linux SDL leaves stdout and stderr alone, so you'll get them sent to wherever they'd normally be sent (e.g. your terminal emulator if you are running Wesnoth from it).
20140622 01:15:52< shadowm> That means you usually don't need to do anything. However, I don't know if anyone here has used CB on Linux. The CB project files we have are tailored for Windows builds AFAIK.
20140622 01:16:39< Laundry> shadowm: Ok. I just like using an IDE to edit files. I can build it using SCons so I should be good there.
20140622 01:18:37< shadowm> (For reference, my primary OS is Linux and I use kdevelop there, but I'm accustomed to building by hand with scons. I also occasionally do stuff on a Windows VM and use CB there.)
20140622 01:19:20< Laundry> shadowm: Ok. That's cool.
20140622 01:19:57< Laundry> shadowm: You're actually the only one I know who runs windows on VM in Linux, although I don't know too many people who run Linux anyways.
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20140622 01:23:03< Laundry> Do you think we could add more resolutions later on?
20140622 01:24:10< shadowm> Resolutions?
20140622 01:26:31< Laundry> Screen resolutions
20140622 01:28:28< shadowm> 800x480 is the smallest resolution we support and I don't think there's an upper limit. What resolutions would you propose adding?
20140622 01:30:39< Laundry> 1600*900 for sure. Maybe some 15:9 ones?
20140622 01:31:21< iceiceice_> so i guess large ones are not so hard, the small ones are sort of a pain because we have to futz with the uis to get everything to fit
20140622 01:31:31< iceiceice_> maybe im wrong though, im far from an expert on the ui issues
20140622 01:31:55< shadowm> We support 1600x900 too.
20140622 01:32:18< Laundry> We do? I didn't see it on my resolution thing
20140622 01:32:56< Laundry> I see a 1440x900
20140622 01:33:46< shadowm> We really support anything >= 800x480, even unusual values like 801x481 or so. If it isn't listed then you could try starting Wesnoth from the console with the -r switch (e.g. `-r 1600x900`, optionally the `-f` switch for fullscreen or `-w` for windowed) and file a bug for the unlisted resolutions.
20140622 01:34:14< Laundry> Ok. I g2g right now. Thanks for all the help guys!
20140622 01:34:16< shadowm> Of course, unusual resolutions in fullscreen mode might drive your OS crazy or something.
20140622 01:34:48< Laundry> I wasn't planning on doing the crazy resolutions in fullscreen, just windowed
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20140622 01:40:50< shadowm> Well, that'd explain it. IIRC the set of resolutions offered in windowed and fullscreen mode are different, although I don't remember the specifics. In fullscreen mode your monitor's native resolution should always be listed, along with every other resolution it (through the display server through SDL) advertises.
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20140622 02:11:17< irker826> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 14808e186b20 / data/test/scenarios/feeding.cfg wml_test_schedule: add unit test for an object-based "feeding" ability http://git.io/o54xDA
20140622 02:11:19< irker826> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master e803a9d12da8 / src/multiplayer_create.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of git://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/47Qr0w
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20140622 07:07:16< aquileia> Coffee_irc: if you usee multiple -m "..." options it'll take each as a paragraph, that's the clean solution
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20140622 07:28:45-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 242 bugs, 345 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140622 18:48:28< thunderstruck> To address https://gna.org/bugs/?21978, I decided to add a couple of new attributes. Change is quite small, but I'm still not pushing it, in case anyone would like to discuss it. Details are in this PR https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/218.
20140622 18:48:40< thunderstruck> iceiceice_: ^
20140622 18:50:43< thunderstruck> By the way, it is for 1.12 also.
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20140622 20:05:00< gfgtdf> thunderstruck: i see a map_game_settings::share_view member that overwrties share_view for all sides but i see not options where to set it. 
20140622 20:05:21< gfgtdf> thunderstruck: So you know why we have that member ?
20140622 20:06:38< gfgtdf> thunderstruck: s/So/do
20140622 20:12:00< gfgtdf> thunderstruck: i think the current implementation results in share_view alwas beeing true in the first scenario of a mp campaign and always beeing false in the other leves of a campaign
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 23 00:00:12 2014