--- Log opened Thu Jun 12 00:00:04 2014
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20140612 00:13:53< happygrue> causative: that is not how difficulty is set
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20140612 00:14:19< happygrue> a very good player is going to be able to beat whole campaigns without losing a scenario
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20140612 00:15:24< happygrue> the hardest campaigns perhaps not (at least not for me), but saveloading is never intended.  Just set it to not have any autosaves and that should solve it causative ;)
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20140612 00:30:14< celticminstrel> Is khalifate in mainline now?
20140612 00:32:28< happygrue> yes, but not in default.  It's in an era you can select (default+khalifate)
20140612 00:33:20< celticminstrel> Good enough!
20140612 00:33:39< happygrue> For now... ;)
20140612 00:34:06< celticminstrel> Pretty sure it means the units are available to campaigns without any extra work, at least.
20140612 00:34:09< happygrue> I hope it will help get some interest in testing it out, which will give feedback and then we can improve them more.
20140612 00:34:10< happygrue> yes
20140612 00:34:19< happygrue> a campaign would be nice
20140612 00:35:36< celticminstrel> I had vague ideas for a sequel to my previous campaign. Dunno if it'll ever materialize though...
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20140612 01:04:22< Dan39> hmm is there a hotkey to just skip to the end of other moves animation?
20140612 01:04:35< Dan39> i know i saw an option to turn it off completely in prefs
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20140612 01:52:15< jesusalva> Bye.Good night.
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20140612 02:08:49< Dan39> hmm looking at the help for income/upkeep it seems to mention a lot, except what happens when i run out of gold like i'm about to D:
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20140612 07:15:47< Soliton> Dan39: that's because it's inconsequential. you just can't recruit new units.
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20140612 14:11:28< Dan39> hmm
20140612 14:11:31< Dan39> thats kinda silly
20140612 14:11:57< jesusalva> Hi
20140612 14:12:03< Dan39> if you run out of money to feed your units, they should stop healing, or some starting to lose HP maybe
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20140612 14:18:17< tdk27> nah, you just go into the red. and can't recruit until you're back int the black, so it can be pretty damaging
20140612 14:19:01< Turuk> Gold is only recruit based, not upkeep based
20140612 14:19:51< jesusalva> I agree with tdk27. If you got an upkeep too high and lose too much money, you'll get on red and you will not be able to repose dead units.
20140612 14:20:38< jesusalva> Plus, you'll start next scenario (if there is one) with the minimum gold value, which sometimes is low.
20140612 14:21:44< tdk27> don't you just get your debt applied as a penalty against the gold plus bonus gold?
20140612 14:22:07< tdk27> that seems the only sensible way to make it work
20140612 14:24:50< jesusalva> tdk27: As long as the player don't start the next scenario with less than 1 GP. :/
20140612 14:25:04< tdk27> that's pretty difficult
20140612 14:25:17< tdk27> given that minimum gold in most cases is at least 100
20140612 14:26:02< jesusalva> if (gold_bonus <= 0) { gold_bonus=1 }; ?
20140612 14:26:14< jesusalva> Running before displaying the GUI?
20140612 14:26:19< Turuk> a bonus is awarded at the end of the scenario (usually) that is a set value multipled by remaining turns, and then you are given a percentage of that to apply to the minimum starting gold
20140612 14:26:53< tdk27> at the end of a scenario, you get a bonus amount of gold for early completion, equal to the total gold you'd have recieved by capturing all villages and waiting out the turn limit
20140612 14:26:57< jesusalva> Or, in other case, you start with your current money or the minimum gold, what is bigger.
20140612 14:27:48< tdk27> you then carry over a percentage of your ending cash (bank balance at the end, plus bonus) and add that to the minimum starting gold
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20140612 14:32:37< zookeeper> yeah debt doesn't carry over to the next scenario.
20140612 14:33:37< zookeeper> and it's entirely intentional and conscious that negative gold doesn't have any other drawbacks
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20140612 16:32:56< SZ_Bot> it there any reason you dont have channel mode +t here?
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20140612 16:48:55< zookeeper> SZ_Bot, i remember once asking the same question.
20140612 16:49:40< zookeeper> what boggles the mind is how the topic stays intact... unless it's restricted otherwise somehow.
20140612 16:50:38< tdk27> one option would be that wesbot adjusts vandalism
20140612 16:50:43< SZ_Bot> cant be
20140612 16:50:46< tdk27> otherwise it just doesn't get messed up, which isn't that unlikely
20140612 16:50:50< SZ_Bot> that would be logged
20140612 16:51:03< SZ_Bot> * Set by shadowm!~ignacio@wesnoth/developer/shadowmaster on Mon May 26 05:58:14
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20140612 16:51:21< tdk27> most people don't fuck up topics, and it's a small enough channel it doesn't get  vandalised
20140612 16:59:26< Soliton> yeah, it happens very rarely, nothing to worry about. so the question is rather why we would set the mode.
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20140612 18:19:17< jesusalva> Hello.
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20140612 19:00:58< SZ_Bot> Should I report that clicking :inspect>units>variable crashes wesnoth1.10.7
20140612 19:01:19< SZ_Bot> Initially I thought it was from faulty wml but now I got wml right and it still crashes
20140612 19:02:23< Soliton> unlikely that anyone's going to fix it in 1.10 but if it also crashes latest 1.11 or master that'd be good to know.
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20140612 19:26:02< Necrosporus> Soliton, there's already a report about that
20140612 19:26:38< Necrosporus> SZ_Bot, does it still crash in latest 1.12+dev? (git checkout)
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20140612 20:00:44< shadowm> zookeeper: Because there aren't assholes in this channel who would vandalize the topic.
20140612 20:00:57< zookeeper> yes, which is really bizarre.
20140612 20:01:16< zookeeper> it's really odd how freenode seems so devoid of them
20140612 20:01:50< shadowm> It's just that the Wesnoth channels are rarely targeted by certain groups.
20140612 20:02:25< shadowm> We don't even ban people very frequently from our own forums to give them a reason to vent on IRC.
20140612 20:02:55< shadowm> And most are reasonable enough to behave responsibly.
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20140612 20:20:59< Necrosporus> error config: Macro/file 'FLAG_VARIANT6' is missing at ~add-ons/Northern_Rebirth_Remake/scenarios/01_Breaking_the_Chains.cfg:86 included from ~add-ons/Northern_Rebirth_Remake/_main.cfg:102
20140612 20:21:07< Necrosporus> shadowm, it doesn't work
20140612 20:21:31< celticminstrel> I wonder, which should I do first - upgrade to 1.12, or add a new scenario?
20140612 20:21:33< Necrosporus> Also can NR title be renamed in this addon?
20140612 20:21:57< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, I guess upgrade first if you might want to use 1.12 features
20140612 20:22:25< celticminstrel> I don't think there's anything new that I'd urgently need, though I say that without really knowing what's new.
20140612 20:22:37< shadowm> Necrosporus: That's unfortunate.
20140612 20:23:21< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, there's a number of features in wiki
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20140612 20:53:01< causative> I can't stand losing any heros that are beyond level 1... this game is just too painful
20140612 20:54:14< celticminstrel> Heh.
20140612 20:54:31< celticminstrel> But uh... what are you calling "heros"?
20140612 20:54:59< causative> any unit beyond level 1
20140612 20:55:19< causative> worse if it's a campaign hero
20140612 20:56:23< tdk27> commit them carefully, then
20140612 20:56:42< celticminstrel> To me, it seems more logical (n most cases) to say you have a small band of heros (the ones with special markings, for example loyal units) and then a following of soldiers.
20140612 20:56:54< tdk27> one surprisingly effective strategy is to open with a powerful unit to mostly kill an enemy, then use level 1 troops to finish off the target and occupy their space
20140612 20:56:55< shadowm> If it's a campaign hero you usually lose anyway.
20140612 20:57:12< tdk27> that way you level up more troops fairly efficiently, and also shield your current potent units from counterattacks
20140612 20:57:13< jesusalva> causative: You can play smarter, read guidelines, get used to it... Or even save-load, cheat...
20140612 20:57:17< celticminstrel> There could be exceptions, and they'd even involve higher-level units in most cases, but...
20140612 20:57:44< tdk27> (this method combines particulary well with powerful units that have aura effects like leadership or curing)
20140612 20:58:51< causative> I don't want to care about my unitsl
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20140612 21:01:54< causative> I can't play this game, it's not fun to train up units over several days of a campaign and then lose them in a second when the enemy gangs up on them
20140612 21:02:48< causative> I'm uninstalling
20140612 21:02:54-!- causative [~halberd@unaffiliated/halberd] has left #wesnoth ["may the truth move you"]
20140612 21:04:10< shadowm> Awww.
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20140612 21:04:54< shadowm> I guess one day they'll learn that in a real war nobody cares so much about their soldiers.
20140612 21:06:18< tdk27> eh. there's perfectly decent methods of play to prevent it
20140612 21:06:25< tdk27> but wesnoth heros aren't immortal killing machines
20140612 21:06:36< tdk27> different type of fantasy game
20140612 21:13:51< mattsc> causative better never play one of my campaigns …
20140612 21:14:45< jesusalva> :D
20140612 21:15:32< shadowm> Or mine.
20140612 21:21:23< mattsc> indeed
20140612 21:31:00< celticminstrel> I imagine it'd be hard to play any campaign without losing a unit.
20140612 21:31:08< UK> Huh.  Anyone having a problem with the developmental version where units not under your control become invisible at the beginning of your turn?  To clarify, by invisible I mean that they are still THERE; they still have ZOC and if I mouse over them I see their info, and I can attack them.  Their sprite is just gone.  I glanced at the forums earlier and gave them a more thorough scouring before, but I just want to make sure that this hasn
20140612 21:31:13< UK> Or it's not just on my end.
20140612 21:31:17< celticminstrel> And would probably take tedious save-load cycles.
20140612 21:31:52< UK> Before I post a bug report.
20140612 21:34:26< mattsc> UK: which version?
20140612 21:34:59< mattsc> There was a bug in a recent version to that effect, but it’s been fixed.  I forgot off the top of my head if the fix is in a release yet though …
20140612 21:35:22< UK> 1.11.15, I'm on an HP Intel core, Windows 7.  I downloaded it just... TWO days ago, maybe?
20140612 21:36:13< mattsc> UK: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=40493#p570866
20140612 21:36:38< UK> Ah.  Problem is, I didn't know what I was looking for.
20140612 21:36:47< mattsc> yes, it’s 1.11.15, it’s fixed in the development version and will be fixed in 1.11.16.
20140612 21:37:07< mattsc> No worries.
20140612 21:37:12< UK> Thank you so much.
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20140612 22:22:14< Necrosporus> celticminstrel, on easy it is probably easy
20140612 22:26:38< Necrosporus> Only case when it's almost impossible not to lose units is when enemy got several berserks
20140612 22:27:18< Necrosporus> Then they can kill even the most powerful units 
20140612 22:27:41< Necrosporus> In other case you could use a healer or two and rotate units 
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20140612 22:38:37< celticminstrel> I dunno.
20140612 22:46:22< tdk27> confining yourself ot just losing l1 units should be fairly possible, though
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 13 00:00:14 2014