--- Log opened Mon Jul 07 00:00:06 2014
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20140707 01:28:45-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 237 bugs, 344 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140707 02:56:46< irker535> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master d7ea8f96563d / utils/headers/ (build_headers.sh header_times.sh readme): add header analysis scripts to the utils directory http://git.io/8eZiLA
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20140707 03:35:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3699 (master - d7ea8f9 : Chris Beck): The build was broken.
20140707 03:35:22< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/29285801
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20140707 04:06:03< ancestral> wesbot: Seen mattsc
20140707 04:06:03< wesbot> ancestral: The person with the nick mattsc last spoke 9h 33m ago.  21m 47s ago was here and on the channels #wesnoth, #wesnoth-de and #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Quit: Bye for now
20140707 04:06:46< ancestral> Should you read the logs, you’ll be happy to know, I downloaded the 1.9 Mac stuff, put it in the folder, opened the project, clicked build, and it built successfully.
20140707 04:09:45< ancestral> Well, it built successfully, and says it’s running, but I don’t see any Wesnoth window
20140707 04:12:42< ancestral> I see it’s paused - Thread 1 signal SIGABRT
20140707 04:12:53< ancestral> result.options = detail::cmdline::run();
20140707 04:13:00< ancestral> (I’m in 1.12)
20140707 04:13:52< ancestral> Output
20140707 04:13:55< ancestral> libc++abi.dylib: terminating with uncaught exception of type boost::exception_detail::clone_impl<boost::exception_detail::error_info_injector<boost::program_options::unknown_option> >: unknown option -N
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20140707 05:01:58< mattsc> ancestral: I do read the logs (or at least search them for my nick).  Glad to hear that the compiling worked.
20140707 05:02:07< mattsc> When you try to run it, is that from Xcode?  For some reaons that I have never figured out, that doesn’t work for me either.
20140707 05:02:17< mattsc> Instead, find where the built binary is, and start it by clicking on it in Finder, or starting it from the command line.  In my case, it’s in:
20140707 05:02:27< mattsc> ~/Library/Developer/Xcode/DerivedData/Wesnoth-fbouojsmvdlgyggskrowxdeetbuv/Build/Products/Debug/
20140707 05:02:36< mattsc> The horrible long hash will be different for you, but the rest is likely the same.  Hope that helps.
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20140707 05:03:05< mattsc> Didn’t think of that when we talked earlier, sorry.  I should add that to the instructions.  :P
20140707 05:03:14< mattsc> ancestral: just left you some messages ...
20140707 05:03:36< ancestral> pms on the forums?
20140707 05:04:05< mattsc> Right here on irc.  The one just after you logged in is the last line.
20140707 05:04:28< ancestral> I’ll check the logs, np
20140707 05:04:32< mattsc> I have to be right off again though.
20140707 05:04:44< mattsc> Did you try to start Wesnoth from Xcode?
20140707 05:05:29< mattsc> Anyways, I’m off, sorry.  I’ll check the logs again tomorrow.
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20140707 05:15:51< ancestral> mattsc:Sure enough, that work
20140707 05:15:52< ancestral> *s
20140707 05:24:57< iceiceice> ancestral: it sounds liek you are launching iwth option -N ?
20140707 05:25:13< iceiceice> mattsc / ancestral: do you know why it might be doing that?
20140707 05:25:18< iceiceice> it could probably be fixed
20140707 05:26:41< iceiceice> hmm i dont get exactly the same error when i write "wesnoth -N" ...
20140707 05:26:52< iceiceice> that is a bit of a head scratcher
20140707 05:31:36< ancestral> iceiceice: What version of OS X and Xcode do you have?
20140707 05:31:48< iceiceice> i dont have OS X or Xcode
20140707 05:32:17< ancestral> I’m certain it’s something with the Xcode project, or something platform-specific
20140707 05:32:50< iceiceice> the error message you posted <boost::program_options:unknown_option> etc. is a general c++ error message
20140707 05:37:14< ancestral> iceiceice: Yeah, something with the boost library?
20140707 05:37:58< ancestral> But I only get the error when running the app from within Xcode
20140707 05:38:11< iceiceice> we use the boost program options lib to parse the command line and pick out the user selected options
20140707 05:38:26< iceiceice> the error message means that the program got "-N" on the command line, and we didnt give a meaning to that
20140707 05:40:40< iceiceice> idk why it wouldn't be caught here thoguh? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/wesnoth.cpp#L820
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20140707 06:24:46< aquileia> shadowm, loonycyborg: As we can't merge https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/155 fixing that bug currently requires the extra work of patching it for Windows builds...
20140707 06:31:04< aquileia> loonycyborg: Would you try that for the next release, please? Especially with 1.12.0 nearing, it'd be nice to have that resolved. Oh, and sorry for not responding back then
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20140707 06:57:15< ancestral> mattsc, tested my patch and works as expected. Pull requests sent.
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20140707 08:21:47< lipkab> Tadamm: https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi1izi17j5t5zya/sdl_gpu_storyscreen.gif
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20140707 08:49:38< loonycyborg> aquileia: what exactly is the issue with windows?
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20140707 09:04:18< zookeeper> shadowm, Soliton, WRT the [filter_vision] issue on the ML, i wonder if it'd be relevant to grep for how many add-ons on the 1.11/1.12 servers actually use the tag.
20140707 09:04:40< zookeeper> i just wonder if it's used all over the place or only by a handful of people
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20140707 09:05:04< AI0867> loonycyborg: with non-ASCII paths, even if our own filesystem functions work, the SDL components fail
20140707 09:05:40< loonycyborg> I think you have a fix for that, don't you?
20140707 09:05:55< loonycyborg> I already updated my sdl used for windows builds
20140707 09:06:29< loonycyborg> It's high enough to support needed RWOPS functions
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20140707 09:12:42< loonycyborg> AI0867: So can you explain what exactly should I merge and try?
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20140707 09:33:56< Coffee_irc> iceiceice: from earlier, I can't play or test any scenario or campaign as the game crashes on master
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20140707 09:34:24< Coffee_irc> I am trying to see when the problem first appears for me from earlier commits
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20140707 09:42:56< AI0867> loonycyborg: PR #155 makes SDL use our own filesystem functions
20140707 09:43:35< AI0867> if someone manages to reach the main menu, then clearly we can read WML, but not necessarily images, fonts, sounds and music
20140707 09:43:48< AI0867> see bug #22265
20140707 09:44:14< loonycyborg> AI0867: Is there a reason why it's not already merged other than lack of testing?
20140707 09:46:46< AI0867> loonycyborg: SDL 1.2.12 is not available on pandora by default
20140707 09:47:20< loonycyborg> shame
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20140707 10:56:32< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master a4b14e004a46 / src/video.cpp: Adjust the resolution to the window size in SDL_gpu builds. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/a4b14e004a465361f7be9dbd53f3127dd7bc0192
20140707 10:56:32< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 74b557e1a2f6 / src/sdl/ (texture.cpp texture.hpp): Functions for managing wrap modes. http://git.io/A_PFAQ
20140707 10:56:33< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 689efc67d3c9 / src/storyscreen/render.cpp: Implement tile_xxx keys in SDL_gpu builds. http://git.io/CCpSbw
20140707 10:56:34< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master e675045d9cee / src/sdl/ (texture.cpp texture.hpp): Allow to query unscaled dimensions in ttexture. http://git.io/jvCt7w
20140707 10:56:35< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 1812d7c81889 / src/storyscreen/render.cpp: Fix story box border length. http://git.io/k_k9zA
20140707 10:56:36< irker259> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master f0900edaa576 / src/sdl/texture.hpp: Doc comments for ttexture. http://git.io/QHBVuQ
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20140707 11:53:38< loonycyborg> AI0867: it compiles fine
20140707 11:53:41< loonycyborg> but
20140707 11:53:49< loonycyborg> it's against master, not 1.12
20140707 11:54:09< loonycyborg> And if I try to apply it to 1.12 it fails
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20140707 12:39:49< aquileia> loonycyborg: I tested it on a VC build, so it's properly tested
20140707 12:40:37< loonycyborg> yeah, but if you want me to use it for 1.12 releases the branch must be against 1.12
20140707 12:40:46< loonycyborg> not master
20140707 12:41:10< aquileia> There's a pandora package with sdl_mixer 1.2.12, but unfortunately Ivanovic couldn't get it running (that's also the reason why PR 160 isn't merged yet
20140707 12:41:59< aquileia> it should be easy to fix the merge conflict, I might try that this evening
20140707 12:44:21< aquileia> right now I'm not at home and can't do it
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20140707 13:32:53< AI0867> loonycyborg: I suppose I'll duplicate it for 1.12
20140707 13:32:58< AI0867> in an hour, perhaps
20140707 13:50:41< loonycyborg> no hurry
20140707 13:50:53< loonycyborg> I'll need it for next release anyway
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20140707 14:49:58< irker152> wesnoth: ancestral wesnoth:master ec950d4643ea / src/preferences.cpp: Updated default window size for Macs http://git.io/WurPvQ
20140707 14:49:58< irker152> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master d56847cacdc5 / src/preferences.cpp: Merge pull request #239 from ancestral/master http://git.io/ftW94w
20140707 14:50:01< irker152> wesnoth: ancestral wesnoth:1.12 d85e3904f26e / src/preferences.cpp: Updated default window size for Macs http://git.io/BLIAPg
20140707 14:50:03< irker152> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 83873790314e / src/preferences.cpp: Merge pull request #240 from ancestral/1.12 http://git.io/LCX6lQ
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20140707 15:16:14< mattsc> ancestral: Hi.  I merged your pull requests.  Thanks for trouble shooting and fixing this.
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20140707 15:16:36< ancestral> Sweet. You’re welcome, and thank you for your help :)
20140707 15:17:45< mattsc> ancestral:  As a side note, the error I am getting when trying to start from Xcode is different.  There are some things that are controlled by user settings rather than project settings, so that might be the reason, but I really don’t know anything about it.
20140707 15:18:08< ancestral> Interesting
20140707 15:18:23< mattsc> I pretty much always launch Wesnoth from the CL (so that I get stdout/err right there), so I’ve nver tried for more than a few minutes to figure it out.
20140707 15:18:25< ancestral> Yeah, opening it from the Finder is flawless
20140707 15:18:42< ancestral> Like, open /Applications/Wesnoth.app?
20140707 15:19:12< ancestral> Or ./Wesnoth from /Applications/Wesnoth.app/Contents/MacOS/ or whatever
20140707 15:19:16< mattsc> No, I cd into Wesnoth.app/Contents/MacOS and then do ./Wesnoth
20140707 15:19:21< mattsc> right
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20140707 15:33:58< mattsc> ancestral: should I marked those two bugs as fixed?  The root cause isn’t relly fixed and if somebody had a smaller display, they’d still occur, but for all practical intents and purposes, they can probably be considered fixed.
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20140707 15:58:13< Laundry> This recall bug <<<<<<<<<<<< 
20140707 15:58:56< Laundry> In the code, it looks for recall_value in the config, and it's in the config, but it keeps returning a -1
20140707 15:59:03< Laundry> but the thing that confuses me.
20140707 15:59:10< Laundry> is how does the GUI know the cost?
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20140707 16:28:24< AI0867> loonycyborg: #241 is a backport of #155
20140707 16:28:39< loonycyborg> cool
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20140707 17:26:39< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 136c7475f302 / src/display.cpp: fix bug 21723 http://git.io/UEXrJw
20140707 17:26:41< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 848a94aacca9 / src/display.cpp: Merge branch 'fixbug21723_1.12' into 1.12 http://git.io/NYWRng
20140707 17:26:43< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 526349cbec98 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/okdDgQ
20140707 17:28:16< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 53775613f197 / src/display.cpp: fix bug 21723 http://git.io/aFXo-A
20140707 17:28:18< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 4b1fe60eb75b / src/display.cpp: Merge branch 'fixbug21723' http://git.io/Jqz4AQ
20140707 17:28:20< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 91d14b48dcd8 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/z91q6w
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20140707 17:41:23< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 aee9eaf0aac4 / src/commandline_options.cpp: give an error message when we crash from bad command line args http://git.io/3AptQA
20140707 17:41:25< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 1807af4269c2 / src/ (commandline_options.cpp game.cpp): give better error messages when we can't parse command line args http://git.io/M6Ha6g
20140707 17:41:27< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:1.12 da728d174444 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/Ouwpzw
20140707 17:42:36< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 0a8d15332e37 / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/r4RK0g
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20140707 18:09:48< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master fe3b5f45765f / / (6 files in 3 dirs): add adv. preference for number of menu items displayed at once http://git.io/4-cmhg
20140707 18:09:50< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 75f5076d6c78 / src/wmi_pager.cpp: change rendering of last page of wmi's, to prevent menu resize http://git.io/QjIyjw
20140707 18:09:52< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master a968bc625416 / src/wmi_pager.cpp: const-correctness fixup (just for clarity) http://git.io/H9lH-A
20140707 18:09:54< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master df44636990dc / data/test/scenarios/test_max_menu_items.cfg: add [show_if]'s to the test scenario for this feature http://git.io/xNY56w
20140707 18:09:56< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 5a8b024003da / src/ (game_events/wmi_container.cpp game_events/wmi_container.hpp wmi_pager.cpp): fixup wmi_pager so that it takes account of [show_if] when paging http://git.io/CfeQ8Q
20140707 18:09:58< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master b1b493bb57e5 / data/advanced_preferences.cfg src/wmi_pager.hpp: add TODO notes about improving the wmi pager http://git.io/-kjFSw
20140707 18:10:00< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 188b3be18988 / src/wmi_pager.cpp: change a label "Earlier Items" -> "Previous Items" http://git.io/8iHn0w
20140707 18:10:02< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 1cb74d62f8d9 / / (8 files in 4 dirs): Merge pull request #229 from cbeck88/wmi_items_preference http://git.io/N3BhpQ
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20140707 18:10:19< Guest31641> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3709 (master - 91d14b4 : Chris Beck): The build was fixed.
20140707 18:10:19< Guest31641> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/29340029
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20140707 18:10:21< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 89d7e4b495ec / src/lua/ldo.cpp: change an assertion error message associated to lua exceptions http://git.io/liDuIw
20140707 18:10:23< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 9a97c3fbbc88 / / (8 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/YB4G0Q
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20140707 18:43:26< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3711 (master - 0a8d153 : Chris Beck): The build was fixed.
20140707 18:43:26< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/29341276
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20140707 19:08:40< Soliton> zookeeper: i'm not uptodate on the ML but i can do that search, sure. can't hurt to have some idea on how widespread the use is.
20140707 19:09:39< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 166c69b65fd3 / .travis.yml utils/travis/test_executor.sh: run test executable through gdb always, on travis http://git.io/ox-mAA
20140707 19:11:20< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 38a2852ee7ff / : mark the test executor script as executable http://git.io/6Xh7vw
20140707 19:14:45< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 49be669cd00f / .travis.yml utils/travis/utf8_bom_dog.sh: move bom search code to a script http://git.io/Xrnqpg
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20140707 19:18:53< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master baeac17fa257 / .travis.yml utils/travis/play_test_executor.sh: move ai playtest and backtrace out of travis.yml to a script http://git.io/W4p-Lg
20140707 19:20:38< irker152> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master f35fe13e4fa8 / .travis.yml: remove some (unnecessary, duplicate) comments cluttering travis.yml http://git.io/6qlvUg
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20140707 19:28:45-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 236 bugs, 344 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140707 19:58:38< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3714 (master - 166c69b : Chris Beck): The build was broken.
20140707 19:58:38< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/29348705
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20140707 20:40:14< shadowm> Ivanovic: How would you advise to fix this issue with translatable strings including brace substitutions in LoW in 1.12? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=572921#p572921
20140707 20:41:24< shadowm> (Yes, I know what the nature of the problem is. I'm specifically asking how to fix it with the string freeze in place.)
20140707 20:42:28< shadowm> Turuk: Highlighting you so you can be aware I asked the question.
20140707 20:43:09< shadowm> iceiceice: Nice, you went and merged #229. :|
20140707 20:43:40< iceiceice> someone else is free to take over  and change how it works,
20140707 20:43:45< iceiceice> but i see no reason to let perfect be the enemy of good
20140707 20:44:39< iceiceice> idk i think we've beat this one to death
20140707 20:47:16< irker152> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master cc6674bca869 / data/advanced_preferences.cfg: Improve WML menu items count option name and description http://git.io/lWdDtw
20140707 20:55:00< shadowm> ancestral: I'm curious if you saw this? http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=572794#p572794
20140707 20:55:30< shadowm> Is there some other way OS X can overrule the Wesnoth window size that you are aware of?
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20140707 21:08:11< ancestral> shadowm: Yes
20140707 21:08:41< ancestral> The menu bar and dock take up, let’s say, roughly 100 pixels
20140707 21:09:14< shadowm> Can their height be changed by the user?
20140707 21:09:43< ancestral> So if Wesnoth wants to draw thw window at 1024 x 768, it won’t fit. So OS X makes the window fit (let’s say it becomes 1024 x 696 or so)
20140707 21:09:52< ancestral> Yes, the user can resize it and then all is well
20140707 21:11:39< ancestral> I think the central issue is Wesnoth (SDL?) just scales whatever it can into the window it gets
20140707 21:12:34< shadowm> You aren't using 'scale' in a visual sense, are you? At least here it doesn't do that.
20140707 21:13:19< shadowm> Also, I meant changing the menu and dock height so that the Wesnoth window won't fit even with our minimum supported size (800x480).
20140707 21:13:21< ancestral> I’m not at my home computer atm so I won’t be able to take a screenshot for you, but it will shrink the desired video into whatever size window OS X window manager gives it
20140707 21:14:45< shadowm> So it is visibly scaled down? That would be something I'd have expected somebody to report before, since distorted game graphics don't look good.
20140707 21:14:55< ancestral> Yes, absolutely
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20140707 21:15:37< ancestral> It’s not so noticeable to the average joe when it’s 50-100 pixels shorter
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20140707 21:16:53< ancestral> The solution must be to get the window manager’s width and height of the window and set Wesnoth’s window size to that. So if someone types in 2000 for ywindowsize it will correct it to 696, or whatever the actual space the window manager can work with (minus the menubar, title bar and dock)
20140707 21:16:59< shadowm> Here when the real and expected window size differ the game view is just cropped. If it were scaled down client-side then no wonder performance would be awful.
20140707 21:17:21< ancestral> Cropped would be slightly better than scaled, certainly
20140707 21:17:49< shadowm> It isn't in practice because mouse input breaks too.
20140707 21:17:59< ancestral> Yeah, and that’s the thing
20140707 21:18:07< ancestral> When the video gets scaled, the mouse doesn’t scale
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20140707 21:19:42< irker152> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master 76a7e47225b7 / data/gui/default/window/campaign_dialog.cfg: Give the Deterministic mode checkbox a compliant tooltip and label http://git.io/4g_gnA
20140707 21:20:18< ancestral> I don’t recall this being an issue to deal in much older versions (< 1.10?) but who knows
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20140707 21:21:16< shadowm> It's likely older OS X builds shipped with different SDL 1.2.x versions, it's certainly happened with the Windows builds.
20140707 21:22:53< ancestral> So yeah, maybe SDL2 will be different. Or maybe it won’t, and we need to find some way to read the OS X’s window size
20140707 21:23:08< ancestral> I’m just not sure how to do that
20140707 21:30:10< ancestral> It could be as simple as a one liner on stackoverflow
20140707 21:31:56< Ivanovic> shadowm: easy
20140707 21:32:04< Ivanovic> 1) create bug tracker entry for untranslateable string
20140707 21:32:09< Ivanovic> 2) fix bug
20140707 21:32:18< Ivanovic> 3) mention bug fix and bug number in changelog
20140707 21:32:31< Ivanovic> 4) tell me so that i make sure to mention this to translation maintainers
20140707 21:32:48< Ivanovic> and now i got to head off to bed
20140707 21:32:49< Ivanovic> n8
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20140707 22:11:03< gfgtdf> iceiceice: do you think we coudl add a lua function read_wml_file ? or would that be too coimplicated ?
20140707 22:11:27< gfgtdf> or maybe have already someting like that ?
20140707 22:11:29< iceiceice> what exactly do youw ant it to do?
20140707 22:11:33< iceiceice> like call the parser ?
20140707 22:11:53< iceiceice> or search config cache?
20140707 22:12:18< iceiceice> i wrote some lua functions 6 months ago that search the game config,
20140707 22:12:30< iceiceice> like to get the definition of an era / list of all available era names
20140707 22:12:35< gfgtdf> iceiceice: the whole game config ?
20140707 22:13:02< iceiceice> y i think if you look at the .eras thing
20140707 22:13:21< iceiceice> it basically gives the ids of all [era] children 
20140707 22:13:33< iceiceice> i have to look it up again to be sure how it works...
20140707 22:14:20< iceiceice> src/scripting/lua.cpp:1539
20140707 22:15:06< iceiceice> hehe, i guess i make an assumption there now that i look at it,
20140707 22:15:32< iceiceice> if somehow you get to a multiplayer game and there is no era at all, even era_default, i guess it will segfault
20140707 22:15:38< iceiceice> but i dont think that could happen unless you tried hard
20140707 22:15:40< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm i wanted to make it possbile to read 'data' for my addon. reading game config or invking parser would both bee good enought, but idont want to give access to teh whoel game config sine i dont knwo what it contains. 
20140707 22:16:16< iceiceice> y i mean, i think looking back on this now this isn't the greatest idea,
20140707 22:16:27< iceiceice> if you actually use in mp then its easy to make oos problems with it
20140707 22:16:37< gfgtdf> we have synconize_choice
20140707 22:16:38< iceiceice> you should require the eras you want to use probably
20140707 22:16:50< iceiceice> oh hmm i guess you are right,
20140707 22:16:56< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i dotn want to use eras, i want it for sp
20140707 22:16:58< iceiceice> they could call it on all clients and see what is collectively available
20140707 22:17:37< gfgtdf> basicly i have a datafile wich contaings any wml, and i want to read it
20140707 22:17:55< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ofc i can have teh datafiles in lau too
20140707 22:18:11< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but maybe it woudl be nicer to have them in wml
20140707 22:18:12< iceiceice> what is the datafile supposed to do?
20140707 22:19:20< gfgtdf> iceiceice: containing items for example 
20140707 22:20:05< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm thinking about it it might be asier to have it in lua and not im wml
20140707 22:20:09< iceiceice> i mean why don't you just define that in the scenario wml
20140707 22:20:22< gfgtdf> iceiceice: than i have to insert it into every scenario
20140707 22:20:39< iceiceice> you can include it in a "my defines.cfg" type file
20140707 22:20:43< iceiceice> i guess thats what most people do
20140707 22:22:04< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm that still results in beeing appended into every scenario since its static macros. although it won't harm in my case.
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20140707 22:26:38< iceiceice> hmm is there currently a way to get a list of all available unit types?
20140707 22:26:43< gfgtdf> iceiceice: for example if i have a lua gui2 dialog and i want to load teh dialog config from a .cfg file
20140707 22:26:47< gfgtdf> iceiceice: yes there is
20140707 22:26:53< iceiceice> how do you do that?
20140707 22:27:29< iceiceice> gfgtdf: if youw ant to load the dialog config, i think i would do it similarly to a map file
20140707 22:27:37< iceiceice> like, have some line
20140707 22:27:50< gfgtdf> iceiceice: for key,value in pairs(wesnoth.unit_types) do ... end
20140707 22:28:09< iceiceice>     my_dialog_config={path_to_file.cfg}
20140707 22:28:20< gfgtdf> iceiceice: no taht wint work
20140707 22:28:24< gfgtdf> also that is not lua
20140707 22:28:34< iceiceice> you cannot just get it from wml?
20140707 22:28:49< gfgtdf> i coudl but i had to inclue it into teh scenario
20140707 22:29:01< iceiceice> ok, i think that's what i would do
20140707 22:29:13< gfgtdf> wel for example i w write an era then taht wnt work
20140707 22:29:22< gfgtdf> or rather a modification
20140707 22:29:44< iceiceice> why not?
20140707 22:29:54< gfgtdf> iceiceice: how coudl i do it ?
20140707 22:30:01< iceiceice> idk maybe like , 
20140707 22:30:07< iceiceice> one sec
20140707 22:30:58< iceiceice> idk how much parenthesis are requried but i think the idea of this should work
20140707 22:30:59< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/gisigefavu.mel
20140707 22:32:17< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hm i have never used VARIABLE, but i thought that can onyl be used for attribute_values not for comfigs ?
20140707 22:32:44< iceiceice> so normally when you have a scenario wml,
20140707 22:32:49< iceiceice> you put the map file in a different place
20140707 22:33:00< gfgtdf> iceiceice: yes btu the mapdata is a only a string
20140707 22:33:02< iceiceice> and you write `map_data="{my_map.map}"`
20140707 22:33:10< gfgtdf> iceiceice: that means config::attribute_value
20140707 22:33:19< iceiceice> y you will just get a string
20140707 22:33:28< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i dotn want strings
20140707 22:33:28< iceiceice> although, 
20140707 22:33:35< iceiceice> there is a fancy trick for this
20140707 22:33:42< iceiceice> you can store the config if you use the hornshark trick
20140707 22:34:19< iceiceice> http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=39468#p561021
20140707 22:34:32< iceiceice> i think you could use like,
20140707 22:34:46< gfgtdf> iceiceice:  hornshark trick = [set_variables]
20140707 22:34:48< gfgtdf> ?
20140707 22:35:16< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/kekilubiza.apache
20140707 22:35:38< iceiceice> i think that will load it all as a wml config 
20140707 22:36:05< iceiceice> *it should be set_variables
20140707 22:36:45< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hm i think that should work
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20140707 22:39:36< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ok maybe we can have 'silent modifications' ? wich work liek normal modifications but are onyl for internal use like if you want to have an event in all of your campaigns and you dont want to include it manualy into all of your scenarios via macros you can out them into a 'silent modification' and then incldue that with force_modification= ?
20140707 22:40:25< iceiceice> maybe should have like a "runtime include" directive
20140707 22:41:14< iceiceice> hmm maybe i didnt understand though
20140707 22:41:18< iceiceice> what is wrong with including things via macros?
20140707 22:41:24< iceiceice> how would silent mod be different
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20140707 22:41:49< iceiceice> it will still result in including the same files into your config, right?
20140707 22:42:26< iceiceice> you just would rather write "force_modification=get_lua_dialogs" 
20140707 22:42:32< iceiceice> than {get_lua_dialogs.cfg} ?
20140707 22:43:08< gfgtdf> we no if i have {MY_EVENTS} in all of my 10 scenarios that means teh macros will be expanded 10 times which reults in having teh whoel contetn 10 times in ram.  For exmple loti uses tricks exactly to prevent this
20140707 22:43:16< gfgtdf> content*
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20140707 22:44:31< iceiceice> but wont "silent modifications" do the same thing?
20140707 22:44:33< shadowm> Ivanovic: Why is (1) necessary when I can include the full information for (4) in the commit itself?
20140707 22:45:07< shadowm> gfgtdf: Would you want to resume our discussion of the deterministic rng option right now?
20140707 22:45:24< gfgtdf> 'resume' ?
20140707 22:45:28< shadowm> Yes, resume.
20140707 22:46:09< gfgtdf> then it is mostly some tme ago that it was paused.   Why not.
20140707 22:46:20< shadowm> As in, the last time I said that I'd like to see the option restricted to debug mode users, and nothing ever came out of that. However, I now have a patch pending that does exactly that.
20140707 22:46:47< shadowm> So, do you feel this option is relevant to regular (not debug mode) players? If so, why?
20140707 22:48:24< gfgtdf> shadowm: one of the reasony why i implemted is is like 'i dont like the non deterministicness: when i forgot something during my last move i reload the game and the result is eigher that i get worse random result making me fell betrayed by the game or getting better random results making me fell like i cheated.'
20140707 22:49:15< shadowm> Shouldn't it be enabled by default, then?
20140707 22:50:54< shadowm> And presumably not even be an option in that case, although I guess people doing UMC coding work would prefer a less predictable RNG. Perhaps it might make sense the keep it enabled unless debug mode is active.
20140707 22:51:16< iceiceice> no it cannot be default, it makes cheating in mp trivial
20140707 22:51:29< shadowm> We are talking of SP, iceiceice.
20140707 22:51:43< gfgtdf> shadowm: I dotn think that what i quoted earier is everyones opinion. Another argument was that we want the sp rng shoudl behave like the mp rng by default.
20140707 22:51:47< iceiceice> ok, as long as we are,
20140707 22:51:49< shadowm> In fact, the only place where the option exists right now is the Campaigns menu, as in single-player campaigns.
20140707 22:51:58< iceiceice> y but code exists to enable in mp also
20140707 22:52:10< iceiceice> i know there are error messages about if the option doesnt have the same value on differnt clients
20140707 22:52:48< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i dont thign so
20140707 22:53:13< shadowm> gfgtdf: See, the thing is that I'm sure everyone has different opinions on what gameplay should be like, but we have this invisible contract forbidding us from changing the core game mechanics according to our whims.
20140707 22:53:33< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/playmp_controller.cpp#L515
20140707 22:53:51< gfgtdf> iceiceice: that teh default oos message
20140707 22:53:55< iceiceice> hmm bad link
20140707 22:54:24< shadowm> The existence of an option that alters such an essential aspect of the game is troubling.
20140707 22:55:12< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/play_controller.cpp#L471
20140707 22:55:23< shadowm> At least the fact that it's visible to everyone by default.
20140707 22:55:48< iceiceice> hmm maybe i dont fully understand the message,
20140707 22:55:59< iceiceice> the point is it is an error to load an mp game in determinsitic mode?
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20140707 22:58:41< gfgtdf> shadowm: one of teh main reasons main reason why i coded it was for users that want to prevent themself from saveloading to get bettter attack results. I personly dont think that this is only for debuggin mode. But i have no problem with moving it indo preferences.
20140707 22:59:05< gfgtdf> iceiceice: yes taht will always apper if determinisitc rng is used in mpo
20140707 22:59:17< gfgtdf> iceiceice: it wont cause oos
20140707 22:59:26< gfgtdf> iceiceice: so yo can ignore that error if you want
20140707 22:59:38< gfgtdf> iceiceice: it's just a string hint that someone i cheating
20140707 22:59:42< gfgtdf> strong*
20140707 22:59:44< gfgtdf> is*
20140707 22:59:45< shadowm> I'm not concerned too much about the place where the option is (Campaigns makes sense to me since you said before that the option has to remain constant throughout a campaign), but rather about its existence and visibility.
20140707 22:59:59< shadowm> *not too concerned about
20140707 23:01:51< shadowm> I suppose I might try asking the mailing list about this unprecedented situation.
20140707 23:03:40< mattsc> gfgtdf: I haven’t followed this discussion at all (for lack of time) and don’t have time to get involved right now either, but having a deterministic rng seems very inviting to me to use a different sort of “cheating”.
20140707 23:03:59< gfgtdf> mattsc: yes it can.
20140707 23:04:01< mattsc> “Cheating” is in quotes because I personally don’t care how other people want to play.
20140707 23:04:21< mattsc> Okay, as long as you’re aware of it, I have said all I want to say.  :)
20140707 23:07:06< iceiceice> gfgtdf: "when i forgot something during my last move i reload the game"
20140707 23:07:15< iceiceice> maybe we should make better features to make it harder to forget things?
20140707 23:07:59< iceiceice> its a different way to go about it but it might also help the issue
20140707 23:08:00< gfgtdf> shadowm: we can change the code to make it changable during a campaign with a :somedebugcommand  and if it it useful for debuggign we might dp that
20140707 23:08:14< gfgtdf> do*
20140707 23:09:09< gfgtdf> iceiceice: that quote above form myself was from 'November 13th, 2013, 10:53 pm' and idk why exactly i forgot things
20140707 23:10:54< iceiceice> hehe, i had a strange idea the other day that we should have some advanced replay editor tool that lets you rebase your replays
20140707 23:11:07< iceiceice> that would be another way to fix the "i forgot to move something" bug
20140707 23:12:36< mattsc> how is that a bug?  
20140707 23:12:45< iceiceice> y bug is the wrong word
20140707 23:12:50< mattsc> ok
20140707 23:13:18< iceiceice> think about it, we could reimplement savefiles as .git repos instead of text files,
20140707 23:13:23< iceiceice> the undo stack could be a branch 
20140707 23:13:35< iceiceice> the whiteboard would be a second branch that gets rebased continually on to the main game state,
20140707 23:13:45< iceiceice> and failed commits in it just get discarded,
20140707 23:14:00< iceiceice> you could store branches if desired for allt he possibilities the ai considered :)
20140707 23:14:10< iceiceice> hehe i think i will just save this idea for april fools day
20140707 23:14:18< mattsc> ...
20140707 23:14:24< shadowm> ^
20140707 23:17:05< iceiceice> ok i gtg bb
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20140707 23:27:59< zookeeper> i can't say i find the idea very enticing, but i do appreciate the kind of thinking behind it :P
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20140707 23:55:53< ancestral> Merging saves might result in some nasty merge conflicts
20140707 23:56:16< ancestral> There’d better be a Wesnoth visual merge tool
20140707 23:56:19< ancestral> :-P
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 08 00:00:26 2014