--- Log opened Mon Jul 21 00:00:03 2014
--- Day changed Mon Jul 21 2014
20140721 00:00:03-!- zookeeper [~lmsnie@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
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20140721 00:08:40< gfgtdf> do we have some policy that we can mark 'ready to test' bugs as fixed if there is no answer for some time ?
20140721 00:16:48< iceiceice> i think we should
20140721 00:17:00< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i noticed on the guidelines somewhere,
20140721 00:17:02< iceiceice> hmm let me find link
20140721 00:17:40< iceiceice> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ReportingBugs#Bug_protocol
20140721 00:17:48< iceiceice> http://wiki.wesnoth.org/DeveloperGuide
20140721 00:17:56< iceiceice> i think that we don't actually use the "Ready for test",
20140721 00:18:10< iceiceice> i think i started using it because i saw it, and i want the person who reported to test it again
20140721 00:18:17< iceiceice> but im not sure if we're actually supposed to use it
20140721 00:20:24< gfgtdf> iceiceice: hmm ok
20140721 00:22:46< gfgtdf> does any1 know what the branches branch_gettext1, wesnoth-python, xan, gameplay_refactoring, mordante_terrain, formula-ai, water_animation  do? they don't seem to contain commits that are not in master
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20140721 01:20:16< StandYourGround> turuk: You're pretty active in the Ideas topic about the red mage line.  I posted a bunch of brainstorms to it.  Interested to hear your thoughts
20140721 01:20:36< Turuk> StandYourGround: I like active discussions, I feel like it shakes things out of the tree
20140721 01:20:52< Turuk> That's why I sometimes play Devil's Advocate as well
20140721 01:22:08< iceiceice> StandYourGround: i think i only liked your suggestions, i dont particularly have a problem with the current name
20140721 01:22:29< iceiceice> it seems like a lot of people mgiht not have read the help descriptions for arch-mage and great-mage, i think once you read those the names make a lot of sense
20140721 01:22:42< iceiceice> "legendary mage" might be good but i think "great" is also good in an understated sort of way
20140721 01:23:29< StandYourGround> I mean, I just posted a pretty radical idea for a reinvention of the whole mage advancement tree :P
20140721 01:23:34< StandYourGround> nothing huge, but still
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20140721 01:26:59< ancestral> (http://wesnoth.io/bestiary/red_mage)
20140721 01:28:18< Turuk> Except that this: signify the mage’s ability to seemingly conjure fire from nothing but thin air, a trick which, although undeniably useful, is viewed by the magi themselves as a crass application of their hard-won knowledge.
20140721 01:28:41< Turuk> Doesn't really jive, as the unit's sole magical attack is to conjure fire from thin air.  So apparently all Red Mages you level into are pretty crass.
20140721 01:30:25< Turuk> StandYourGround: Your idea has merit, but there are a larger number of considerations at play beyond just naming.  It really seperates the thread away from the "change the name" focus to whether or not the larger unit tree should be looked at
20140721 01:31:35< StandYourGround> with so many advancement possibilities, you could allow a different set of choices for different factions
20140721 01:31:51< StandYourGround> like Loys get Fire/Light, and Rebels get Light/Wind
20140721 01:32:20< StandYourGround> just like the way each side can only recruit a specific Merman unit, and not the rest
20140721 01:32:23< Turuk> Hmm, that's true, but what would attacks be?
20140721 01:32:50< StandYourGround> Wind mages could get something like a basic staff, then two ranged attacks...
20140721 01:33:14< StandYourGround> a ranged impact attack (like wind throwing debris), and maybe a swarm pierce attack
20140721 01:33:33< StandYourGround> and then they get Silver mage type resistances
20140721 01:33:40< StandYourGround> and teleport only on max level
20140721 01:34:26< StandYourGround> doesn't really make sense that they would just use the same attacks as the Fire line
20140721 01:34:53< StandYourGround> and Wind because it can anywhere at the same time, and you can't see it, only the effect of it being there
20140721 01:35:02< StandYourGround> adds to the mysterious feel
20140721 01:36:26< StandYourGround> turuk:  You can split the thread if you like.
20140721 01:37:05< Turuk> Hmm, I never paid attention to the fact that Silver uses fire as a ranged attack but has the arcane missile image
20140721 01:37:19< Turuk> StandYourGround: I would just take what you posted and throw it in a new thread, perhaps flesh out the idea a little
20140721 01:37:39< Turuk> It doesn't have to be cut out now, I was just disuading others from going down the rabbit hole until it had its own thread
20140721 01:37:55< StandYourGround> Sure, I can do that
20140721 01:38:40< StandYourGround> I also think it would be cool if when you get Mages in a campaign, you only get maybe Fire and Light to start, and have to "unlock" the rest through different campaign choices
20140721 01:40:03< StandYourGround> it would be neat if unlockable advancements where a standard part of wesnoth, just like having to "discover" units in game before their descriptions in Help are accessible.
20140721 01:40:11< StandYourGround> at least for campaigns
20140721 01:41:37-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 243 bugs, 344 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140721 01:41:55< Turuk> unlockable advancements could be done in campaigns currently if an author wanted, so that would be up to them
20140721 01:42:10< Turuk> Just have them blocked until a certain event happens or the player does a certain thing
20140721 01:42:26< StandYourGround> true
20140721 01:43:11< StandYourGround> but it would be interesting if that were a standard part of the strategy in some way…  maybe it could have something to do with where your villages are situated
20140721 01:43:30< StandYourGround> since the villages you flag are likely not only the source of your income, but of your recruits
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20140721 01:45:55< ancestral> mattsc: iceiceice and I were talking yesterday after you had left
20140721 01:46:39< ancestral> About the possibility of cross-compiling for OS X without Xcode
20140721 01:46:51< mattsc> hi, ancestral 
20140721 01:47:05< StandYourGround> How would that incorporate Mac-specific features?
20140721 01:47:07< mattsc> umm, okay
20140721 01:47:34< mattsc> meaning: I don’t know anything about that really  :(
20140721 01:47:53< ancestral> Yeah I don’t know enough, but I’m willing to learn
20140721 01:47:55< ancestral> So there’s a Jenkins server that is building
20140721 01:48:04< ancestral> for different platforms
20140721 01:49:04< mattsc> right.  I am vaguely aware of that.
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20140721 01:49:31< ancestral> The idea would be, if scons or cmake or something can be configured to build for OS X without Xcode, it could be done in a VM and be done automatically…
20140721 01:49:49< mattsc> That would be great.  Is that possible?
20140721 01:50:34< ancestral> It’s possible to build Wesnoth without Xcode technically, right?
20140721 01:51:00< mattsc> Umm, I assume so, yes.  But I have never tried myself.
20140721 01:51:04< ancestral> And it’s possible to build for foreign architectures
20140721 01:54:29< mattsc> ancestral: that all sounds reasonable, yes.  So what are you asking me?  And just to reiterate (ad nauseum for some people, I am sure) that I really don’t know anything about coding and the like.  :P
20140721 01:54:55< ancestral> I’m not asking, just letting you in with what we were talking about last night :-P
20140721 01:55:12< mattsc> Ah, okay.  Thanks, that’s much appreciated.  :)
20140721 01:56:12< mattsc> ancestral: seriously, if you (or somebody else) would like to take over the whole Wesnoth OS X thing, I’d be more than happy with that.
20140721 01:56:38< mattsc> My available time is already minimal at the moment, and it’s only going to get worse in the second half of the year.  :(
20140721 01:58:06< mattsc> It’s not that I don’t want to or don’t care, I just don’t see how I’ll be able to do a good job with it in the near future.
20140721 02:00:55< ancestral> Well
20140721 02:02:08< ancestral> I’m concerned about conflict of interest with my employer
20140721 02:02:34< ancestral> Wesnoth is a commercial product. If I’m a package manager that might not be good
20140721 02:03:02< ancestral> That’s the biggest issue for me
20140721 02:08:36< mattsc> ancestral: (sorry, was afk for a few minutes) okay, no worries.  I’m not trying to push you into anything.  Just saying.  If it doesn’t work for you for whatever, that’s fine.  You need to decide that for yourself and don’t need to give a reason.
20140721 02:08:46< ancestral> Right
20140721 02:09:18< ancestral> Maybe someone else can takeover
20140721 02:09:21< mattsc> I’m just saying to anybody out there that I will likely not be around much the next few months.
20140721 02:09:23< mattsc> right
20140721 02:09:47< mattsc> And I have no idea if that will get “better” or not after that
20140721 02:10:29< mattsc> “Better” is in “” because nothing bad is going on, I’m just busy.  :)
20140721 02:10:57< mattsc> I hate it when my real life interferes with my fantasy life!
20140721 02:13:58< ancestral> mattsc: Real life is important. There are no extra lives, no save game files.
20140721 02:14:15< StandYourGround> and no cheat codes, unless you're in political office
20140721 02:14:17< ancestral> Also, way better audio and visuals!
20140721 02:14:24< bumbadadabum> yeah
20140721 02:14:28< bumbadadabum> but the gameplay is a bit shit
20140721 02:14:34< ancestral> Heh
20140721 02:14:41< ancestral> Physics are too real
20140721 02:15:01< bumbadadabum> physics are unrealistic if you take some alcohol
20140721 02:15:04< bumbadadabum> pls patch
20140721 02:15:15< ancestral> bumbadadabum: Nah, it’s a feature
20140721 02:15:21< ancestral> Won’t Fix
20140721 02:15:33< bumbadadabum> it's not a good feature imo
20140721 02:16:36< mattsc> hehe
20140721 02:16:46< mattsc> alcohol or physics is not a good feature?
20140721 02:17:19< bumbadadabum> actually not the biggest alcohol fan either
20140721 02:18:06< mattsc> Well, I used to be heard saying that I am not drunk as long as quantum mechanics doesn’t make sense to me.
20140721 02:18:23< ancestral> Certainly it can be easily abused
20140721 02:19:03< mattsc> Seriously though, yes, real life is important
20140721 02:19:10< mattsc> And Wesnoth can be part of real life.
20140721 02:19:22< bumbadadabum> yeah, real life...
20140721 02:19:25< mattsc> But life is also all about compromises at some point.
20140721 02:19:35< bumbadadabum> I've been out for a few months
20140721 02:19:39< bumbadadabum> mostly because of RL
20140721 02:19:47< bumbadadabum> exams were tough this year
20140721 02:20:13< mattsc> yeah, that happens.
20140721 02:20:36< bumbadadabum> and then I also went on vacation
20140721 02:20:51< mattsc> That’s where I am heading on Saturday.
20140721 02:21:00< bumbadadabum> ah, to where?
20140721 02:21:07< mattsc> I hope that Ivanovic isn’t planning for a release for the next couple weeks after that
20140721 02:21:16< mattsc> Camping in backcountry BC
20140721 02:21:33< bumbadadabum> ah nice
20140721 02:22:03< mattsc> Yeah, except for the mosquitos  ;)
20140721 02:23:05< bumbadadabum> mosquitos seem to completely ignore me this year
20140721 02:23:22< mattsc> Oh, they love me.  Always have, always will.
20140721 02:23:34< mattsc> Best mosquito protection in the world: bring me along.
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20140721 02:24:28< mattsc> Anyways, all, I have to sign off again.  Sorry…  As I said, real life’s good atm, just too busy.
20140721 02:24:55< mattsc> I do search the logs for my nick, or if you really want to get a hold of me, send me a PM or an email.  I will eventually get that.
20140721 02:25:32< ancestral> Hey, enjoy life
20140721 02:25:43< ancestral> And the outdoors
20140721 02:26:13< mattsc> Will do.
20140721 02:26:19< mattsc> Thanks.
20140721 02:27:18< mattsc> And I’ll be around, just not all the time for a little while.  :)
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20140721 02:34:32< StandYourGround> turuk: topic posted
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20140721 02:53:47< iceiceice> hey, quick question, i am fixing up the help right now regarding how it displays factions and eras
20140721 02:54:00< iceiceice> i found already in the code, some stuff to display a description of a faction
20140721 02:54:14< iceiceice> but we actually dont have any faction descriptions right now, even in mainline
20140721 02:54:33< StandYourGround> Uh, I seem to remember reading them in the manual
20140721 02:54:47< iceiceice> there are race descriptions that are very long and well written,
20140721 02:54:59< StandYourGround> oh, you mean MP factions
20140721 02:54:59< iceiceice> but if you look in the files data/multiplayer/factions/
20140721 02:55:13< iceiceice> none of those configs have description="..." fields
20140721 02:55:41< iceiceice> is there content like this hiding somewhere?
20140721 02:56:51< iceiceice> if not, is it reasonable for me to post something in the writing forum along the lines "anyone want to have a crack at this?"
20140721 02:57:02< iceiceice> or do we have special people we turn to for that
20140721 02:59:03< StandYourGround> I'm in a writing mood tonight
20140721 02:59:26< iceiceice> cool :)
20140721 02:59:30< StandYourGround> Do I get a fancy color for my username if I commit?  :P
20140721 02:59:59< iceiceice> you know i'm not sure of the answer to that, maybe
20140721 03:00:17< iceiceice> there is a light red color for "code and wml contributor" for people who make a pull request,
20140721 03:00:26< iceiceice> idk if writing counts as that, maybe
20140721 03:00:33< StandYourGround> Should I put a topic in the Writer's forum then?
20140721 03:00:35< iceiceice> maybe you can be a multiplayer contributor? idk
20140721 03:00:47< iceiceice> i think this is a question for someone more knwoeldgeable
20140721 03:01:25< iceiceice> hmm so if you want to just take a stab at it yourself you dont have to advertise it if you dont want to, but sure you can if you like
20140721 03:01:44< iceiceice> its just something i noticed that we dont seem to have,
20140721 03:01:57< iceiceice> i might look around harder for a bit, give me a few mintues
20140721 03:02:18< StandYourGround> I'd basically start with the race descriptions as my source and tailor it for the multiplayer factions
20140721 03:02:25< StandYourGround> like explaining how Orcs recruited nagas
20140721 03:02:47< StandYourGround> and something about the Northern Alliance to explain outlaws + dwarves
20140721 03:03:03< iceiceice> oh hmm i guess we do have something on the wiki, just not in the game: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Knalgan_Alliance
20140721 03:03:23< StandYourGround> hmm that should work
20140721 03:04:12< StandYourGround> cool then
20140721 03:04:15< iceiceice> hmm yeah i guess this is probably usable
20140721 03:04:23< StandYourGround> yeah just read some of the others
20140721 03:04:27< StandYourGround> seems to be just what you want
20140721 03:04:59< iceiceice> yeah, if you feel like improving any of the writing we could probably update both the wiki and the in-game help with it,
20140721 03:05:57< ancestral> imo every unit should have good descriptions
20140721 03:05:58< iceiceice> otherwise i'll probably just use that, and try to figure out how to port the links over to the help as well
20140721 03:06:10< iceiceice> oh, yeah, there are several races that dont have descriptions also
20140721 03:06:28< StandYourGround> mainline?
20140721 03:06:34< ancestral> There are?
20140721 03:06:40< iceiceice> falcons, gryphons, saurians
20140721 03:06:48< iceiceice> wolves
20140721 03:06:56< ancestral> http://wesnoth.io/bestiary/saurian_skirmisher
20140721 03:07:04< ancestral> Yeah, miscellaneous units
20140721 03:07:30< iceiceice> so i'm talking specifically about, the "race" sections under units
20140721 03:07:32< iceiceice> in the in-game help
20140721 03:07:33< StandYourGround> Most under the category of Monsters
20140721 03:08:06< ancestral> Oh I see
20140721 03:08:32< StandYourGround> That would cover dragons, gryphons, yetis, probably wolves too...
20140721 03:08:35< StandYourGround> ogres
20140721 03:08:59< StandYourGround> do they need individual race descriptions outside of their fairly well detailed unit descriptions?
20140721 03:09:48< iceiceice> idk, for most races we have at least a blurb,
20140721 03:09:50< iceiceice> even bats
20140721 03:10:19< StandYourGround> they probably got more attention only because they used to be Undead
20140721 03:10:58< iceiceice> the race of woses has like 4 paragraphs
20140721 03:11:01< iceiceice> even though its just 3 unit types
20140721 03:11:48< iceiceice> i think the race is the place that you put like, background lore stuff that's not immediately relevant to someone trying to figure out how to fight with the unit / use it in battle
20140721 03:11:53< StandYourGround> possibly five if you include all units found in mainline campaigns
20140721 03:12:09< StandYourGround> Sapling and Shaman
20140721 03:12:28< iceiceice> hmm those aren't listed under the "wose" race though
20140721 03:12:32< StandYourGround> Rise of Wesnoth, Delfador's Memoirs
20140721 03:12:41< iceiceice> i actually didnt play those campaigns,
20140721 03:12:49< iceiceice> is there really a "wose shaman" /
20140721 03:12:56< StandYourGround> yep
20140721 03:12:58< iceiceice> hehe
20140721 03:13:03< StandYourGround> slow attack too
20140721 03:13:16< iceiceice> hmm so,
20140721 03:13:25< iceiceice> i think we definitely could stand to have some description of the race of gryphons,
20140721 03:13:30< iceiceice> they feature prominently in some campaigns
20140721 03:13:55< StandYourGround> The one in Sceptre of Fire is silly and annoying
20140721 03:14:08< StandYourGround> I'd rather introduce a loyal ghost
20140721 03:14:43< StandYourGround> Easily found in caves, actually sentient, and unable to carry the sceptre itself, being all ghostly and all
20140721 03:15:06< iceiceice> you want to make a "ghost gryphon" sprite?
20140721 03:15:11< StandYourGround> just a ghost
20140721 03:15:19< iceiceice> oh ok
20140721 03:15:33< StandYourGround> escaped from a necromancer's apprentice
20140721 03:15:43< iceiceice> so i feel like we definitely could stand to have some description of the race of saurians
20140721 03:16:36< StandYourGround> the gryphon in SoF exists only to escape the volcano and report that the sceptre does exist but has been lost
20140721 03:16:57< iceiceice> i mean, that, and to show off the fancy gryphon portrait :p
20140721 03:16:58< StandYourGround> begging the question of why it can talk in the first place, and why it couldn't take the Sceptre with it when it escaped
20140721 03:17:24< StandYourGround> meanwhile, a Ghost would be sentient and easily able to talk, but unable to carry a physical object any great distance
20140721 03:17:55< iceiceice> hmm maybe you should speak to the campaign maintainer :p
20140721 03:17:58< iceiceice> i dont know who that might be
20140721 03:21:31< StandYourGround> according to the main.cfg, zookeper
20140721 03:21:40< StandYourGround> zookeeper
20140721 03:23:50< StandYourGround> should I PM him, or make an Ideas thread?
20140721 03:27:49< iceiceice> i think you should just ask him what he thinks first, if he doesnt like the idea i dont think it will happen in mainline
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20140721 03:54:53< iceiceice> does anyone know if it is possible to escape a quote in a string in WML?
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20140721 04:08:21< ancestral> iceiceice: Why escape a quote when you can use a curly quote instead? ;-)
20140721 04:09:34< iceiceice> hehe i decided to just go with single quotes,
20140721 04:09:48< iceiceice> there might be some fancy unicode solution but im going to let someone else tell me what that is if they care
20140721 04:10:15< iceiceice> i have now ported all of the "intro" text and links from the wiki pages like this one into the in-game help: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Drakes
20140721 04:10:59< iceiceice> im thinking i might make it auto generate the "race" and "alignments" fields similarly
20140721 04:11:14< iceiceice> and maybe display a fancy portrait the way the wiki uses the sprite icons
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20140721 04:26:48< ryao> iceiceice: I jusr received a reply from RMS. He says its okay.
20140721 04:27:05< ryao> s/jusr/just/
20140721 04:27:35< iceiceice> ryao: i don't know why you are telling *me* this, its not my business in particular
20140721 04:27:50< iceiceice> i have absolutely nothing to do with the ios ports
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20140721 05:43:31< Ivanovic> iceiceice: it builds now!
20140721 05:43:37< iceiceice> horray
20140721 05:52:15< iceiceice> can anyone confirm that strings for time-of-day alignment are not being translated on master?
20140721 05:52:32< iceiceice> i wonder if i broke something when i changed the alignment_description function in unit_types.hpp ...
20140721 05:52:47< iceiceice> (beyond just a translatable string id)
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20140721 05:55:28< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master b5e068441116 / data/core/help.cfg src/help.cpp: Auto generate sections for all eras and their factions http://git.io/NVSk9Q
20140721 05:55:30< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 106ce9040246 / data/multiplayer/factions/ (12 files): port faction description text from the wiki to the in-game help http://git.io/A3qj1w
20140721 05:55:32< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 22e9081b3093 / data/multiplayer/factions/ (12 files): add portraits to decorate mainline faction descriptions http://git.io/Q4JqFQ
20140721 05:55:34< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master acfb8c6c8e64 / src/help.cpp: silence a warning coming from the help log channel http://git.io/9pF5-w
20140721 05:55:36< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master c02f167e82e5 / src/help.cpp: add race and alignment listings to the help topics for factions http://git.io/g1PlTw
20140721 05:55:38< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master f6d27f30b673 / / (14 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'eras_sections' http://git.io/6Yq2zA
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20140721 06:06:59< irker302> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 79524cb46050 / changelog players_changelog: update changelogs http://git.io/pSiMxg
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20140721 07:31:33< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 90ca01b8671f / src/sdl/image.cpp: Fix base_width and base_height. http://git.io/aBAXyQ
20140721 07:31:35< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 6378249aeec6 / src/storyscreen/render.cpp: Use base_width and base_height where appropriate. http://git.io/_j9BkA
20140721 07:31:37< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master a190cdd016af / src/storyscreen/render.cpp: Use base_width and base_height where appropriate. http://git.io/gYdS8A
20140721 07:31:39< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 56b873b5559b / src/sdl/ (image.cpp image.hpp): timage::width/height returns scaled and clipped dimensions. https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/56b873b5559bdeecb5f7cff9cabec7cee7bcdbaa
20140721 07:31:41< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 3071c3881498 / src/display.cpp: Fix report images. http://git.io/e1hAfw
20140721 07:31:43< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 86f626cad227 / src/storyscreen/render.cpp: Use base_height where appropriate. http://git.io/fhcYXw
20140721 07:31:45< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master e6a1b2f745f7 / src/ (display.cpp image.cpp image.hpp): Enable local ToD in SDL_gpu builds. http://git.io/AHzYCA
20140721 07:31:47< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master ac0bfc77d2ff / src/ (display.cpp minimap.cpp minimap.hpp): Draw minimap units in SDL_gpu builds. http://git.io/ulcLsg
20140721 07:31:49< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 5fd034d3efdc / src/widgets/ (button.cpp button.hpp): SDL_gpu support for GUI1 buttons. http://git.io/4Rw8Ag
20140721 07:31:51< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 740d1978b7ba / src/ (display.cpp display.hpp): Don't recreate buttons for every draw. http://git.io/MQvJtg
20140721 07:31:53< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 1a56404e05c9 / src/minimap.cpp: Fix minimap column shifting. http://git.io/SulfRA
20140721 07:31:55< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 628edb6e8c6c / src/widgets/ (label.cpp label.hpp): SDL_gpu implementation for GUI1 label. http://git.io/rIOX7w
20140721 07:31:57< irker302> wesnoth: Boldizsár Lipka wesnoth:master 2d822c25c1b4 / src/widgets/ (button.cpp button.hpp): Fix compilation. http://git.io/VaZYLQ
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20140721 07:41:37-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 243 bugs, 343 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
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20140721 07:58:11< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3884 (master - 2d822c2 : Boldizsár Lipka): The build was broken.
20140721 07:58:11< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/30434721
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20140721 08:02:43< zookeeper> ryao, err... you wrote to RMS to ask about wesnoth's iOS port and he said it's ok? :P
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20140721 11:26:12< travis-ci> [travis-ci] gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#215 (carryover_on_defeeat - 1443713 : gfgtdf): The build has errored.
20140721 11:26:12< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/30448747
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20140721 11:56:07< Appleman1234> ryao, I find that difficult to believe without evidence
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20140721 18:10:58< irker813> wesnoth: Mark de Wever wesnoth:master 11d0da98df83 / src/display.cpp: Fix compilation. http://git.io/4kfu3A
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20140721 18:48:00< anonymissimus> src/replay.cpp: In function ‘void verify(const unit_map&, const config&)’:
20140721 18:48:02< anonymissimus> src/replay.cpp:62:13: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
20140721 18:48:16< anonymissimus> I get that for current master
20140721 18:49:19< anonymissimus> g++ --version
20140721 18:49:21< anonymissimus> g++ (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3
20140721 18:50:29< anonymissimus> for the first time ever; works with 1.12 and anything else
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20140721 18:57:07< travis-ci> [travis-ci] wesnoth/wesnoth#3885 (master - 11d0da9 : Mark de Wever): The build was fixed.
20140721 18:57:07< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/30483467
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20140721 19:29:19< iceiceice> anonymissimus: gcc 4.6 started segfaulting a while ago on wesnoth, we don't know why and there's probably no way to fix it
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20140721 19:29:25< iceiceice> we upgraded travis to use gcc 4.8
20140721 19:29:28< iceiceice> i suggest you do that or use clang
20140721 19:29:59< iceiceice> i guess we could report the bug to gcc but since it was fixed in later versions it doesnt seem terribly important
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20140721 19:41:39-!- wesbot changed the topic of #wesnoth-dev to: string+feature freeze active on 1.12 | 245 bugs, 343 feature requests, 29 patches | Logs: http://irclogs.wesnoth.org | Alternate logs: http://wesnoth.debian.net | Don't paste on IRC! Use a pastebin: http://pastebin.com | http://imagebin.org
20140721 19:51:59< anonymissimus> iceiceice: debian stable's repo doesn't have never gcc I guess ?
20140721 19:52:00-!- boucman [~rosen@wesnoth/developer/boucman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140721 19:52:21< anonymissimus> (we used to take that as requirements reference didn't we)
20140721 19:52:41< iceiceice> its an upstream problem wtih gcc,
20140721 19:52:46< iceiceice> we can't do anything to fix compiler segfault
20140721 19:53:53< iceiceice> maybe try clang?
20140721 19:55:59< anonymissimus> basically, I avoid upgrading at all costs, especially if I'm forced to do it by external things (such as the wesnoth repository)
20140721 19:56:24< anonymissimus> as it usually leads to something else not working anymore
20140721 19:56:49< anonymissimus> however, upgrading g++ seems to require only very few changes so I may try it
20140721 19:58:01-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 19:59:43< anonymissimus> and as my system is ubuntu precise still, there's no newer gcc than 4.6 in my repo which means I need to mix with other repos
20140721 20:00:02< anonymissimus> they are the analog ones from newer versions but still a bad idea
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20140721 20:09:38< iceiceice> surely clang is available in debian stable?
20140721 20:09:43< iceiceice> its about twice as fast to compile wesnoth anyways
20140721 20:10:11-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@d111109.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 20:10:40< anonymissimus> well yes, as expected, apt or synaptic or whatever doesn't even let me install it
20140721 20:10:58< anonymissimus> fortunately nothing happened yet
20140721 20:11:26< anonymissimus> yes, it's there
20140721 20:11:47< anonymissimus> hm and what about debuggin ?
20140721 20:12:04< iceiceice> anonymissimus: i just sent an email to the dev list about this
20140721 20:12:14< iceiceice> just fyi
20140721 20:12:20< anonymissimus> ok thx
20140721 20:12:43< anonymissimus> the trigger must have been introduced recently
20140721 20:13:04< iceiceice> i searched irc logs, i remember i looked at a travis log and was like "omg why is gcc segfaulting"
20140721 20:13:04< anonymissimus> last few months, at least since 1.13 branch
20140721 20:13:12< iceiceice> i think this was from june 15
20140721 20:13:33< anonymissimus> okay, well, at least it segfaults not just for me :)
20140721 20:14:01< iceiceice> yeah, fwiw, 
20140721 20:14:03< gfgtdf> anonymissimus: you cannot even update you gcc 4.6.3 to a newer like 4.6.4 or something ? I think or jenkins server did sucessfully build master on gcc 4.6.4  at http://baldras.wesnoth.org:8080/job/Wesnoth/branch=master,compiler=4.6,label=Gentoo-64/210/console
20140721 20:14:13< iceiceice> travis was using gcc 4.6 consistently,
20140721 20:14:21< gfgtdf> althought its also possible that i read teh completely wring
20140721 20:14:24< iceiceice> i looked on stack overflow tof igure out how to update travis,
20140721 20:14:34< iceiceice> the line that installs gcc 4.8 uses some ppa, its this: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/.travis.yml#L31
20140721 20:14:55< iceiceice> i dont know if you actually want to use that on your machine though, its up to you
20140721 20:15:01< iceiceice> frankly i woudl recommend to use clang 
20140721 20:19:39< anonymissimus> gfgtdf: "not being able to upgrade" is because of the usual things making Linux userhostile once it comes to the more than normal jobs; synaptic tells me things about "it is not going to be installed" etc
20140721 20:20:02< anonymissimus> even though I enabled all repos that it may need
20140721 20:20:27< anonymissimus> it cant find some things or the needed versions
20140721 20:20:50< anonymissimus> though I enabled all repos for trusty where they should be
20140721 20:22:11< gfgtdf> anonymissimus: well i dont really know much about linux.
20140721 20:22:46-!- prkc [~prkc@h33-59.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 20:23:24< anonymissimus> I mean, on windows I would download some .exe run it and that's it (okay, perhaps running it would fail, but it generally is less problematic)
20140721 20:23:59< anonymissimus> hm how do I instruct scons to use clang ?
20140721 20:24:23< anonymissimus> or cmake ? (don't care, basically)
20140721 20:26:28< iceiceice> scons cxxtool=clang++
20140721 20:26:43< iceiceice> i dont really know cmake
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20140721 20:38:06< timotei> hi anonymissimus. welcome back :D
20140721 20:38:46< timotei> Seems you've moved to Linux? :P
20140721 20:40:05< anonymissimus> timotei: I'm neither "back" nor do or have I moved
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20140721 20:52:04< timotei> Ah. OK :)
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20140721 20:58:52< anonymissimus> src/playcampaign.cpp:306:4: error: use of undeclared identifier 'state_of_game'
20140721 20:58:54< anonymissimus>                         state_of_game.expand_carryover();
20140721 20:59:00< anonymissimus> clang...
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20140721 21:26:59< anonymissimus> iceiceice: ok, clang worked, thx
20140721 21:27:28< iceiceice> anonymissimus: no problem
20140721 21:27:40< anonymissimus> (and it installed without any problems)
20140721 21:27:58< anonymissimus> what about debugging with clang ?
20140721 21:28:01< shadowm> Great. I have a case of units mysteriously disappearing during a scenario transition in AtS in 1.11.15/1.11.16.
20140721 21:32:32< shadowm> 1.11.13 is the first version where it breaks.
20140721 21:34:06< shadowm> The weird thing is that there is nothing unusual about the transition other than this: I use {PUT_TO_RECALL_LIST side=1} (a mainline macro) to place everybody from side 1 on the recall list before [endlevel]. But if I inspect the state at [endlevel], the the units *ARE* on the recall list.
20140721 21:35:49-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@wh.Uni-Dortmund.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20140721 21:36:01< shadowm> The save_id for side 1 is the same before and after the transition.
20140721 21:37:26< shadowm> Well, since I've got nothing better to do with my time I guess I'll try to pinpoint the culprit commit instead of trying to apply logic to this crap.
20140721 21:40:17< shadowm> It's also frustrating that I can't even release a workaround.
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20140721 21:45:01< gfgtdf> shadowm: do yu side have a lewader left at the end ?
20140721 21:45:09< gfgtdf> does your*
20140721 21:46:08< gfgtdf> shadowm: do you have remove_from_carryover_on_defeat=no in your scenario? If not, does taht fix it ?
20140721 21:46:27< shadowm> I have a leader at the end on the recall list.
20140721 21:48:15< shadowm> I think I can see where this is going and I'm absolutely displeased.
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20140721 21:50:31< shadowm> gfgtdf: http://pastebin.com/5rXds2gA
20140721 21:51:17< shadowm> Of course I don't have remove_from_carryover_on_defeat=no set, why would I have that set?
20140721 21:51:35< shadowm> Side 1 isn't defeated.
20140721 21:51:51< shadowm> It didn't use to be defeated.
20140721 21:53:10< shadowm> Sorry, but I'm sure it's not too unreasonable on my part to be frustrated after this thing that took me four years to complete breaks behind my back due to an unexpected behavior change from 1.9.x-1.11.132.
20140721 21:54:17< shadowm> What is supposed to be the parent node for remove_from_carryover_on_defeat?
20140721 21:54:52< shadowm> I can't even find that in the changelog.
20140721 21:55:32< shadowm> Oh right, it's because I haven't reset to the 1.12 head.
20140721 21:56:25-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has quit [Quit: The Game]
20140721 21:57:04< gfgtdf> shadowm: remove_from_carryover_on_defeat was previpously remove_from_carryover_on_leader_loss and teh effect was changes to use the defeat_condition= value so it was renamed.
20140721 21:57:34< gfgtdf> shadowm: the change in 1.13 was that this os now also applied if teh scenario was ended with endlevel
20140721 21:57:35< shadowm> *1.9.x - 1.11.12
20140721 21:57:50< shadowm> I don't care about 1.13. This isn't 1.13.
20140721 21:57:56< gfgtdf> shadowm: see here ybout that change: http://gna.org/bugs/?21933
20140721 21:58:01< gfgtdf> 1.11.13 i mean
20140721 21:58:50< shadowm> I remember discussing this before but I didn't expect that the leaders being on the recall list would cause the side to be considered defeated for [endlevel].
20140721 21:59:22< shadowm> Because how does that make sense? No further gameplay can take place after [endlevel], so if the leaders are unable to participate in gameplay that shouldn't matter at all.
20140721 22:00:06< shadowm> Now I guess I'll have to add this option to every scenario in my campaign just to be on the safe side.
20140721 22:01:15< shadowm> gfgtdf: Where does this go in a saved game? I need to test this with a turn save.
20140721 22:01:33< gfgtdf> shadowm: at [snapshot]
20140721 22:02:43< shadowm> This won't cause persist=no sides to persist in the saved games, right?
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20140721 22:04:08< shadowm> It seems it doesn't. And it works.
20140721 22:05:18< gfgtdf> shadowm: maybe we shoudl make remove_from_carryover_on_defeat default to false ?
20140721 22:06:44< shadowm> I'm not quite sure what the 1.10.x behavior for persistent sides was beyond "not declaring defeat on endlevel".
20140721 22:07:06< shadowm> For single-player. Multiplayer might as well not exist AFAIC.
20140721 22:09:01-!- Gambit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
20140721 22:10:15< shadowm> The point is that 1.12.x should behave like previous versions (specifically, version 1.11.10 a.k.a. 1.12 beta 1) unless otherwise specified.
20140721 22:10:47< shadowm> We went and broke that assumption repeatedly after beta 1, so I have no effing idea what to do at this point. It shouldn't even be my business.
20140721 22:11:15-!- Grickit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 22:12:02< shadowm> I just failed to take into account one border case when evaluating the impact of the 1.11.13 changes, so it's essentially my fault for not playing programming lawyer with the Wesnoth Markup Language.
20140721 22:12:15< gfgtdf> shadowm: i think remove_from_carryover_on_defeat /leaders_loss was mainly intended for mp: fe3224e9b428ab72a834fd22fc2443c159d11480
20140721 22:12:44< shadowm> Because every aspiring WML author should become one such if they intend to maintain content for more than a single stable series. :\
20140721 22:13:34< shadowm> zookeeper: Is it too late for me to join your keep-backwards-compatibility club?
20140721 22:14:43< shadowm> gfgtdf: If you thought that then you knew what you were doing when you decided to make it relevant in SP too. :p
20140721 22:14:43< iceiceice> shadowm: i think the most productive thing is to write unit tests to detect these things
20140721 22:15:24< shadowm> Yeah someone do that for me please.
20140721 22:15:50< shadowm> The problem here is that the behavior was already changed for three consecutive releases. How is a unit test supposed to help with this?
20140721 22:15:57-!- Grickit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has quit [Client Quit]
20140721 22:16:20< iceiceice> if you have a unit test specific to your campaign, you will know immediately when it gets broken somehow
20140721 22:16:23< gfgtdf> shadowm: [endlevel] can be use din mp and in sp.
20140721 22:16:34-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 22:16:44< shadowm> How am I going to write a unit test for my campaign? Also note that I'm targetting 1.12, not 1.14.
20140721 22:17:29< shadowm> The WML unit test facilities are only in master, and for all I know my campaign is probably completely broken there.
20140721 22:17:39-!- Grickit [~derek@wesnoth/developer/grickit] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 22:17:53< iceiceice> yes, you can't target 1.12 with this of course, as it was decided that this was a feature
20140721 22:17:59< shadowm> That's in fact the most reasonable assumption, just like it's a reasonable assumption to expect 1.11.16 to behave like 1.11.10.
20140721 22:18:12< iceiceice> i'm just trying to offer a constructive idea for the future.
20140721 22:18:42< iceiceice> the code that handles saving and loading games and campaigns is pretty messy in 1.12
20140721 22:18:55< iceiceice> i dont know if it will get worse or better in 1.13
20140721 22:18:59< shadowm> gfgtdf: Yes... I knew this already.
20140721 22:19:42< iceiceice> its messy in that its very long and complicated code written in an iterative style, its very hard to read and clearly understand, and therefore quite likely to break no matter what anyone does
20140721 22:19:42-!- Grickit is now known as Gambit
20140721 22:19:48< shadowm> In general, when a .0 development version is (about to be) released I'll assume everything is broken and playtest and fix/report issues on the whole thing accordingly.
20140721 22:20:21< iceiceice> and because of the way it is written it is more or less untestable
20140721 22:20:27< iceiceice> at least in c++
20140721 22:21:18< iceiceice> if we had wml unit test "campaigns" then we could test for whether scenarios being ended / carryover stuff is working properly
20140721 22:21:33< shadowm> So, I'm going over every scenario of my campaign trying to identify scenarios where there might not be at least one side 1 leader on the map at the end.
20140721 22:22:02< shadowm> If I knew this was going to be relevant years from then, I'd have left notes to help me.
20140721 22:23:38< lipkab> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxbj2w5menvg34n/almost_pixel_perfect.png
20140721 22:23:53< shadowm> Alternatively I could go and add remove_from_carryover_on_defeat=no everywhere, but then I'd feel significantly more stupid than I already feel.
20140721 22:23:53< lipkab> Starting to look like Wesnoth =)
20140721 22:25:01< lipkab> Too bad it still has lower FPS rates than software-rendered Wesnoth, which makes it kinda pointless :/
20140721 22:25:35< gfgtdf> shadowm: we also can easily revert the 'check defeat_condition to remove side on [endlevel]' patch, but you should talk with cib about http://gna.org/bugs/?21933.             Especialy whei think about that it is now called remove_from_arryover_on_defea ti agrree that it is confusing that any maybe wrong it removes unit of sides that won the scenrio.
20140721 22:28:49 * zookeeper hands shadowm a membership card
20140721 22:29:43< gfgtdf> with less typos:
20140721 22:29:44< gfgtdf> shadowm: We also can easily revert the 'check defeat_condition to remove side on [endlevel]' patch, but you should talk with cib about http://gna.org/bugs/?21933 then.
20140721 22:29:46< gfgtdf> Especially when think about that it is now called 'remove_from_arryover_on_defeat' i agree that it is confusing, and maybe wrong, that it can remove unit from the victorious side.
20140721 22:31:53< zookeeper> just for the record, i have no idea what this is about specifically, i haven't been following those features
20140721 22:32:01-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20140721 22:32:27< zookeeper> what kind of scenarios could be broken? are multiple leaders required?
20140721 22:34:18< gfgtdf> zookeeper: scenario that kill the leader and then end with [endlevel]
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20140721 22:45:54< shadowm> gfgtdf: Let me be clear about this: nothing of this is my responsibility. I'm just a victim, and I'll have to fix my WML either way. I don't get to make decisions about anything outside my campaign.
20140721 22:46:45< zookeeper> gfgtdf, ok, and if a scenario does that, what happens?
20140721 22:47:47< gfgtdf> zookeeper: all recall unit unit/ carryover gold will be removed for the next scenario.
20140721 22:49:01< shadowm> Also, if you are going to change WML syntax in the 1.12 branch again it'd better be the last time unless you intend to keep 1.12 in beta for another year.
20140721 22:50:19< zookeeper> gfgtdf, how was it determined that no mainline scenario is affected by it?
20140721 22:50:55< shadowm> *syntax/semantics
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20140721 22:56:16< gfgtdf> zookeeper: i think i did only textearches yet.
20140721 22:56:58-!- prophile [~alynn@oftn/member/prophile] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 22:57:12< zookeeper> okay... how do you search for something like that though?
20140721 22:59:08< gfgtdf> searching for result=victors, name=victory and looking at teh envts that containg those.
20140721 22:59:40-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20140721 23:00:06< zookeeper> there's several scenarios in which the player's leader is removed one way or another followed by an [endlevel], but none where they're actually killed by an enemy in a regular fashion
20140721 23:00:47< zookeeper> i'm not sure what kind of "kill the leader" you meant though
20140721 23:02:38< shadowm> gfgtdf: This is an accurate description of the issue, yes? http://pastebin.com/9y67aVmm (This is only for my own reference years from now when I start dropping compatibility with 1.12.x or whatever, hence I need to be able to understand it without reading additional material.)
20140721 23:03:20< zookeeper> eww my eyes bleed
20140721 23:04:03< shadowm> Well, hopefully some day somebody will allow #else to go with another conditional on the same line or something so I don't need to keep writing code like this.
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20140721 23:10:36< gfgtdf> shadowm: y the text seem correct.
20140721 23:12:20-!- nurupo [~nurupo.ga@unaffiliated/nurupo] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20140721 23:20:31< zookeeper> so why was the default behavior changed?
20140721 23:21:27< zookeeper> because it makes sense for it to work that way in MP campaigns by default?
20140721 23:21:53< zookeeper> well, i gotta be going so i guess i'll check the logs in the morning...
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20140721 23:56:53< travis-ci> [travis-ci] gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#216 (check_victory_2 - 8c846d8 : gfgtdf): The build was canceled.
20140721 23:56:53< travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/30507631
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 22 00:00:29 2014