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20140815 08:57:26< ZappaMan> Hello guys, I've done some more work on https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/270, and I'd really appreciate it if you had the time to give me some more feedback on that. Thanks a lot!
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20140815 10:27:49< ZappaMan> I've also got a question related to the first issue in the ai improvements section in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/EasyCoding, the one with the cost function taking [ai][avoid] into account: doesn't https://gna.org/bugs/?18679 affect this in a way, if it is still valid?
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20140815 14:20:15< mattsc> ZappaMan: hi
20140815 14:20:51< ZappaMan> mattsc: hello there
20140815 14:21:18< mattsc> I cannot help you with your PR, as for the AI task, I know that at least on of the GSoC candidates was working on this in the spring.
20140815 14:21:38< mattsc> I do not know what has come out of this though, you might want to ask Crab_ about it.
20140815 14:22:24< mattsc> He’s really busy and hasn’t been here in a while, but he does eventually reply to PMs or emails.
20140815 14:23:09< mattsc> As for your question about the bug, I don’t see how the two are directly related.
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20140815 14:25:41< ZappaMan> I was thinking that if the requests was to take the [ai][avoid] tags into account, and somehow, when defining multiple such tags one after the other, they somehow aren't visible anymore (not taken into account in-game), that would, in turn, affect their visibility in a possible cost function that looks for such tags
20140815 14:27:07< mattsc> I believe that multiple AI tags have never worked before.  But then, I think this internally works differently anyway.
20140815 14:27:19< mattsc> There’s a function that gets the content of the [avoid] tags.
20140815 14:27:44< mattsc> You use the output of that function.  Whether it reads on or all of them is an issue independent of this EasyCoding task.
20140815 14:27:52< mattsc> s/on/one
20140815 14:32:02< mattsc> Argh, and another typo …  I mean multiple [avoid] tags, of course.  Multiple [ai] tags do work …  :P
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20140815 14:33:40< ZappaMan> mattsc: oh good then, thanks for the info. another question: is there a convenient method to test out the ai lua functions? is there a scenario where they can be readily used? i've seen some lua code in the test scenario, but the test scenario itself kind of confuses me anyway, haven't seen any documentation on it.
20140815 14:34:48< mattsc> ZappaMan: it’s a bit tricky, so I have set up my own test scenario.  It’s part of the AI demos add-on, you can get it from there.
20140815 14:35:30< mattsc> With that, you can test Lua AI code directly from the right-click menu
20140815 14:35:57< mattsc> (and you don’t even have to reload after changing the code)
20140815 14:40:46< ZappaMan> okay, I'm looking into your demos repo now. Don't have too much experience with add-ons, could you please tell me where should I put the demos, and how should I run the test scenario?
20140815 14:41:37< ZappaMan> ~add-ons/AI-demos/ means my-wesnoth-root-dir/ ?
20140815 14:42:17< mattsc> No, that’s inside your user data dir
20140815 14:43:28< ZappaMan> so wesnoth/data/add-ons/AI-demos ?
20140815 14:43:58< ZappaMan> oh, my-home/add-ons you mean?
20140815 14:44:09< mattsc> yes, the latter
20140815 14:46:46< mattsc> ZappaMan: this should show you where everything is for your OS:  http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Editingwesnoth
20140815 14:48:09< mattsc> I need to be offline for about 30min, will be back after that
20140815 14:48:19< ZappaMan> ok, thanks a lot for the info!
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20140815 15:13:05< ZappaMan> mattsc: are you there?
20140815 15:13:18< mattsc> yes  (on and off)
20140815 15:15:30< ZappaMan> I've managed to install your add-on and now I'm currently on the test scenario. i'm looking through test_lua.lua; my question is, how do i test a specific ai? i see some 'fn' variables which seem to be loaded (dofile)
20140815 15:16:23< ZappaMan> i've set test_CA to true, but the I'm not sure if the ai has been loaded, or which ai I'm testing :))
20140815 15:16:53< mattsc> ZappaMan: What do you mean with ‘a specific AI’?  [I thought you were talking about Lua AI functions earlier.]
20140815 15:17:52< mattsc> It depends very much on what you want to do, so best give me an example of what you want to do and I’ll see if I can figure it out...
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20140815 15:23:53< ZappaMan> ok, so from what I understand, your add-on provides a sort of framework for testing new Lua AI's. My main purpose is to be able to test some of the ai lua functions, so I figure, what better way to do that than to define my own little ai/ modify a pre-existing lua ai to showcase the functionality I am trying to test. I don't have anything specific in mind momentarily. But first, to do all that, I would like to know how to (if it is possible) load 
20140815 15:23:53< ZappaMan> an ai into the test scenario and play against it. If my question is unclear please tell me and I'll try to clarify :D
20140815 15:24:48< mattsc> ZappaMan: ah, I see.  No the test scenario is not for that.
20140815 15:25:24< mattsc> It’s for testing individual AI commands (or series thereof) quickly without having to play through an AI turn.
20140815 15:25:49< ZappaMan> I see. Welll it's a general test/work cycle that I'm looking for, if such a thing exists.
20140815 15:25:56< mattsc> If you want to play against an AI, check out how the MP AIs are done.
20140815 15:26:13< mattsc> in the add-on, I mean
20140815 15:26:45< mattsc> So yes, both of that exists within the add-on, it might just not be the the test scenario you want.
20140815 15:27:12< mattsc> So let me try to summarize:
20140815 15:27:28< ZappaMan> i'm all ears and eyes
20140815 15:27:52< mattsc> The test scenario let’s you test individual AI commands (or individual CAs) from the right click menu.
20140815 15:28:42< mattsc> You set up a situation (usually I do that by using debug commands, but you can also put it in the scenario cfg and the reload), and the right-click to see if the AI behaves the way you want.
20140815 15:29:11< mattsc> This is convenient for debugging, as all you need to do is right-click; no reloading or anything needed.
20140815 15:30:09< mattsc> Once you have the AI actions which you want together, you can put them into a CA (or several), set them up as a MP (or SP) AI, and test them in real gameplay.
20140815 15:30:34< mattsc> Which of these things would you like more details on?  :)
20140815 15:33:11< ZappaMan> first of all, you said that with the test scenario I can see if the AI behaves the way I want. I suppose you mean only a part of an AI, but what exactly: let's say I want to test out a new path-finding function, can I do that with the test scenario? and how would I go about doing that?
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20140815 15:34:14< mattsc> yes, you can.  Give me a couple minutes, I’ll set up an example quickly.  
20140815 15:34:26< ZappaMan> ok, thanks
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20140815 15:40:21< mattsc> ZappaMan: here’s a really simple example using the default path finding:  http://pastebin.com/h0GUrSDM
20140815 15:40:48< mattsc> You put a unit at 19,7 (using shift-C in debug mode), the right click (or simply press the ‘x’ key)
20140815 15:41:31< mattsc> (and in case it’s not clear, you put that code at the end of test_lua.lua)
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20140815 15:43:07< mattsc> [will be afk for a little, but will stay online]
20140815 15:44:03< ZappaMan> put right at the end, put the unit there
20140815 15:45:07< ZappaMan> oh nice, it actually works
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20140815 16:08:17< ZappaMan> mattsc: so to test a new function and test it, i make sure it's in one of the files included in the test scenario (wesnoth.dofile) and readily use it. Now my question is: if I want to work on the "Add a Lua ai.get_individual_attacks()..." task from the EasyCoding section, where should I define it in data/ai/lua/stdlib.lua/ ? or should I define it in C++ and use it in lua, the way the functions in wesnoth/src/ai/lua are defined?
20140815 16:13:13< ZappaMan> mattsc: and while I'm at it, could you please tell me which AI tasks in the EasyCoding section are surely valid and do-able for someone new? It's explicitly written there that some of the tasks there might be a bit too difficult and that it'd be a good idea to ask someone knowledgeable about them beforehand
20140815 16:23:45< mattsc> ZappaMan: the ai.get_individual_attacks() should be coded in C++ and then just acessed through Lua.
20140815 16:24:05< mattsc> As for which tasks ...
20140815 16:25:43< mattsc> Hmm, I’m not at all a C++ expert, so it’s hard for me to say.  ai.get_individual_attacks() is valid and _should_ be doable, I think.
20140815 16:26:25< mattsc> Also, Crab says that making the old aspect syntax work is easy.
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20140815 16:28:16< mattsc> As for the other ones, I don’t know.  I have been told that adding filters to the MtT CA is _not_ simple, but besides that I can’t really tell.  It might be worth contacting Crab about them.
20140815 16:29:27< ZappaMan> great then, one last question: where should the ai.get_individual_attacks be put? it's pretty confusing because the names differ a bit c++/lua a bit and I can't tell.
20140815 16:29:29< mattsc> They all look like valid open tasks to me though.  And I have a couple other bug/feature things that you could look into if you’re interested.  (Things Crab said are easy but that he just doesn’t have time for; and that would take me too long with my limited C++ knowledge to make them an efficient use of my time while I have other things I want to do)
20140815 16:30:12< mattsc> Put it next to ai.get_attacks()?  Just a guess.
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20140815 16:37:49< ZappaMan> mattsc: Yes, you're right I think. That would be in src/lua/core.cpp. Thanks for all the tips, helped me quite a lot!
20140815 16:40:30< mattsc> ZappaMan: I’m glad it helped.  Let me know if there’s anything else.  As I said, I won’t be too much help wit the C++ bits, but I’d be happy to test things etc.
20140815 16:41:06< ZappaMan> thanks again! for the c++ part, I should talk to Crab?
20140815 16:41:44< mattsc> Ideally yes (if he has time to reply).  Send him a PM and see if he gets back to you.
20140815 16:42:49< ZappaMan> on irc directly? or email?
20140815 16:43:04< mattsc> wesbot: seen Crab_
20140815 16:43:04< wesbot> mattsc: Sorry, I don't know of Crab_.
20140815 16:43:20< mattsc> ZappaMan: looks like he hasn’t been here in a long time, so irc won’t help.
20140815 16:43:28< mattsc> I’d do either a forum PM or email.
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20140815 16:43:43< mattsc> He usually does reply to PMs, but sometimes it takes a while.
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20140815 16:47:47< ZappaMan> ok, for the email, should i try the one in the about.cfg?
20140815 16:48:37< mattsc> That would be my best guess.  No idea if it still is up to date though.
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20140815 17:17:36< ZappaMan> can anyone tell me the difference between a single attack and an 'attack combination', please? looked it up in the manual but I can't find a reference to this. More specifically, what would the difference between get_attacks and get_single_attacks for a side be?
20140815 17:20:27< zookeeper> sounds like just an internal code distinction of some kind
20140815 17:20:47< mattsc> yes, it is
20140815 17:20:50< zookeeper> there's nothing like that gameplay-wise
20140815 17:21:21< ZappaMan>  ai.get_individual_attacks() that returns all the single attacks the side can do (as opposed to attack combinations). and how do I make that distinction?
20140815 17:21:40< mattsc> Let’s assume that there are two units, 1 and 2, that both can attack an enemy from both A and B.
20140815 17:22:46< mattsc> get_attacks returns: 1@A, 1@B, 2@A, 2@B, 1@A + 2@B, 1@B + 2@A, which can be a very long list if there are many units, enemies and attack hexes
20140815 17:23:23< mattsc> but contrast, individual_attacks would return only something like: 1 can attack from A & B, and 2 can attack from A & B
20140815 17:23:44< ZappaMan> what exactly are A and B?
20140815 17:23:51< mattsc> Any two hexes
20140815 17:24:02< mattsc> The two adjacent to the enmy which the units can reach
20140815 17:24:17< mattsc> the ‘dst’ hexes, in other words
20140815 17:25:18< ZappaMan> 1@A + 2@B means that two attacks shall occur in one turn?
20140815 17:25:31< mattsc> ZappaMan: the main point of this function would be speed.  Get all the individual attacks faster than what it takes to calculate all the combinations.
20140815 17:26:32< mattsc> It means that the AI calculates the outcome of Unit 1 attacking from hex A *and* then Unit 2 attacking from hex B in combination.
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20140815 21:54:42< gfgtdf> Could it be that our version_info class cannot handle -dev versions when comparing versions in 'version_info("1.13.0") >= version_info("1.13.0-dev")' ?
20140815 21:55:05< mattsc> gfgtdf: yes, that is the case
20140815 21:55:38< mattsc> I asked that question for 1.11.0-dev and it was not found important enough to fix.
20140815 21:56:47< mattsc> gfgtdf: on a different note, I tested the pre advance event.  I haven’t done anything particularly sophisticated with it, but the simple tests I did all worked as I expected.
20140815 22:03:57< gfgtdf> mattsc: hm ok i guess i might be able to fix the problem in my case by replacing  'x <= version_info("1.13.0")' with 'x < version_info("1.13.1")' or similar
20140815 22:04:08< gfgtdf> mattsc: ok ty
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 16 00:00:10 2014