--- Log opened Wed Oct 15 00:00:12 2014
20141015 00:00:28< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 1c2b045c6ad3 / src/font.cpp: Dump Pango and Cairo versions on startup with --log-info=font http://git.io/boIYHQ
20141015 00:03:17< loonycyborg> shadowm: I'm using newer gtk sdk for dev releases
20141015 00:03:56-!- noy [~Noy@wesnoth/developer/noy] has quit [Quit: noy]
20141015 00:04:51< shadowm> loonycyborg: Then give me a screenshot of the HttT campaign menu entry. :p
20141015 00:05:01< shadowm> And the Cairo/Pango versions you use.
20141015 00:05:09< loonycyborg> I mean
20141015 00:05:20< loonycyborg> were you referring to stable release
20141015 00:05:27< loonycyborg> or 1.11
20141015 00:05:30< shadowm> 1.11.x.
20141015 00:05:35< loonycyborg> hmm
20141015 00:06:12< shadowm> gfgtdf: Unfortunately, I can't use aquileia's SDL_mixer. The import library formats aren't the same.
20141015 00:06:27< shadowm> MSVC++ uses .lib, gcc uses .a (a .o archive).
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20141015 00:07:21< gfgtdf> shadowm: can't you use use the dll?
20141015 00:07:37< loonycyborg> shadowm: http://www.gtk.org/download/win32.php, I'm using gtk bundles from here
20141015 00:07:54< shadowm> gfgtdf: Can the linker use a dll?
20141015 00:08:34< loonycyborg> I used gtk 3.x for 1.11
20141015 00:08:41< shadowm> gfgtdf: Well, the answer is no.
20141015 00:08:45< loonycyborg> they could have updated it since
20141015 00:08:59< loonycyborg> actually
20141015 00:09:08< shadowm> I don't remember the raison d'être of import libraries, but they are a thing and they are not DLLs.
20141015 00:09:10< loonycyborg> mingw can link against dlls directly
20141015 00:09:42< loonycyborg> import libraries exist because microsoft's developers are doodooheads :P
20141015 00:09:43< shadowm> Uh, how? ld.exe barfed with this when I deleted the .a: "cannot find -lSDL_mixer"
20141015 00:10:03< loonycyborg> dunno, maybe you need to specify full path to dll
20141015 00:10:12< shadowm> Okay, then I guess you also thing binary Linux distributions are doodoohead.
20141015 00:10:17< loonycyborg> But I definitely remember it can
20141015 00:10:21< shadowm> *think *heads
20141015 00:10:21< gfgtdf> shadowm: i always thought .lib were for static and dll for dynamic binding.
20141015 00:10:31< loonycyborg> but
20141015 00:10:55< loonycyborg> linking against dll.a is better
20141015 00:11:05< loonycyborg> no reason to link against dlls directly in practice
20141015 00:11:29< loonycyborg> as far as gcc toolchain is concerned dll.a is the library
20141015 00:11:31< shadowm> I'll get back to this tomorrow when I actually feel like building SDL_mixer or tampering with our linker command line.
20141015 00:11:38< loonycyborg> dll is used only at runtime
20141015 00:12:06< shadowm> loonycyborg: Still, screenshot.
20141015 00:12:13< loonycyborg> hmm
20141015 00:12:15< loonycyborg> sec
20141015 00:12:26< shadowm> loonycyborg: I want to know if https://gna.org/bugs/?21649 is present in our official Win32 releases or not.
20141015 00:12:41< loonycyborg> I'm on linux atm
20141015 00:12:50< loonycyborg> I'd have to reboot to test without wine
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20141015 00:14:53< loonycyborg> I can in wine though
20141015 00:15:32< shadowm> Worth a try, although I don't know how deep within Pango or Cairo the underlying bug is.
20141015 00:15:51< shadowm> For all I know Wine might fix it.
20141015 00:18:51< shadowm> I should really unify my Wesnoth repositories for my Windows VM so I don't have to fetch the same crap twice.
20141015 00:18:55< shadowm> *VMs
20141015 00:22:05< loonycyborg> what exactly to screenshot again?
20141015 00:22:50< loonycyborg> shadowm: camaign dialog?
20141015 00:22:56< loonycyborg> *campaign
20141015 00:23:43< shadowm> Yes, with the HttT entry selected.
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20141015 00:27:29< loonycyborg> uhh
20141015 00:27:40< loonycyborg> imagebin doesn't exist anymore
20141015 00:27:50< loonycyborg> no idea what should use now
20141015 00:28:30< iceiceice> i use imgur
20141015 00:29:59< loonycyborg> shadowm: http://imgur.com/SMwFRfm
20141015 00:30:33< shadowm> That's not HttT, but okay. The bug *is* present in your builds.
20141015 00:31:23< shadowm> My builds use Cairo 1.10.2 and Pango 1.29.4.
20141015 00:31:32< shadowm> Alo affected.
20141015 00:32:41< loonycyborg> Anyone got it on linux?
20141015 00:33:07< loonycyborg> cairo is using windows text rendering functions on windows
20141015 00:33:21< shadowm> See the bug report, mattsc got it on Apple OS X.
20141015 00:33:22< loonycyborg> it could be windows-specific
20141015 00:33:35< loonycyborg> hmm
20141015 00:33:47< loonycyborg> cairo is using quartz on mac
20141015 00:33:50< loonycyborg> or whatever
20141015 00:33:54< shadowm> Also, notice the weird workaround.
20141015 00:34:03< loonycyborg> but not the same thing as on linux
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20141015 00:40:12< loonycyborg> why can't we use single newline to denote a paragraph and have it automatically partition text within paragraphs? :P
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20141015 00:43:24< loonycyborg> gui toolkits just keep reinventing poorly what was solved by TeX even before I was born :/
20141015 00:47:52< mattsc> shadowm, loonycyborg: just for reference, on OS X it’s like this:  http://imgur.com/keRfMY0
20141015 00:51:55< mattsc> 1.13.0-dev: cairo: 1.12.16, pango: 1.36.3
20141015 00:52:44< mattsc> 1.12.17+dev: cairo: 1.8.2, pango: 1.21.3
20141015 00:53:02< mattsc> *1.11.17+dev
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20141015 00:56:52< fabi_> hi mattsc
20141015 01:00:14< mattsc> fabi_: hello again
20141015 01:01:28< loonycyborg> gtk bundle used it dev leleases has
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20141015 01:01:41< loonycyborg> Cairo 1.10.2 (patched) ;
20141015 01:01:53< loonycyborg> Pango 1.30.1 ;
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20141015 01:07:28< shadowm> loonycyborg: There are situations where you don't want a single line to start a new paragraph.
20141015 01:08:52< shadowm> Lists, for example. Unlike HTML, Pango has no concept of elements other than formatted spans of text.
20141015 01:09:23< shadowm> You can't tell Pango "hey, this is a paragraph, this is a bulleted list, and here I want to force a line break."
20141015 01:09:50< shadowm> loonycyborg: What did you patch in Cairo 1.10.2?
20141015 01:09:56< loonycyborg> not me
20141015 01:10:06< loonycyborg> it's what bundle's readme says
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20141015 01:42:53< iceiceice> shadowm: do you have any idea what all this stuff in "gui/auxiliary/widget_definition" is supposed to do?
20141015 01:42:53< iceiceice> i can't make heads or tails of it
20141015 01:42:53< shadowm> It's described in the GUI2 design document.
20141015 01:42:55< iceiceice> wheres that?
20141015 01:42:55< shadowm> Not sure if I have a copy lying around.
20141015 01:42:55< shadowm> It's in master, in latex form.
20141015 01:42:55< iceiceice> hmm...
20141015 01:42:55< shadowm> Ugh, cmake is involved.
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20141015 01:42:55< shadowm> It's pretty boring, though. D o you absolutely need to know?
20141015 01:42:56< iceiceice> maybe not :p
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20141015 01:42:56< shadowm> Blargh.
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20141015 01:42:57< shadowm> pdftex interactively asking me I don't understand.
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20141015 01:43:34< shadowm> iceiceice: Okay, turns out I did have  a copy lying around: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/notes/gui2.pdf
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20141015 01:44:00< shadowm> You might want to have a coffee and donuts with it.
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20141015 01:52:11< shadowm> I guess everyone who is interested on the whys and whens of GUI2 should read it.
20141015 01:52:11< iceiceice> thanks
20141015 01:52:11< iceiceice> im going to skim i htink
20141015 01:52:11< shadowm> (Paging vultraz.)
20141015 01:52:11< vultraz> Yes?
20141015 01:52:12< shadowm> Yes.
20141015 01:52:12 * vultraz skims
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20141015 01:52:13< vultraz> This document....wastes so much space
20141015 01:52:14< iceiceice> i think its fine
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20141015 01:52:29< shadowm> vultraz: It's the PDF rendering.
20141015 01:52:39< shadowm> If I could figure out how to render it to HTML it'd probably be more readable.
20141015 01:53:21< shadowm> The easiest workaround is to print it on paper. :p
20141015 01:56:04< iceiceice> i think this doesn't answer the questions i hoped it would
20141015 01:56:15< iceiceice> but it did answer the questino about wtf is that widget_definition stuff
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20141015 01:57:53< iceiceice> for instance i don't understand why gui2::ttext_ says " * All other text classes should inherit from this base class."
20141015 01:57:57< iceiceice> but gui2::tlabel seems not to
20141015 01:59:16< shadowm> There is a gui2::ttext_? Wow.
20141015 01:59:49< shadowm> The thing is that there's a similarly-named font::ttext too, the Pango wrapper.
20141015 02:00:04< iceiceice> yeah its basically a "gui2 wrapper" on top of that i think
20141015 02:06:37< vultraz> shadowm: what do you think of an <hr> after What's New, btw?
20141015 02:07:50< shadowm> No.
20141015 02:08:38< shadowm> The horizontal rulers are supposed to separate h2 sections and that particular location is at the start of one.
20141015 02:08:41< iceiceice> vultraz: i also dont like hr there
20141015 02:09:08< iceiceice> maybe you are thinking of it like a really big underline on the What's New text?
20141015 02:09:21< iceiceice> if you want that you should just put underline i guess...
20141015 02:09:24< iceiceice> that at least seems more reasonable
20141015 02:10:06< shadowm> That's like the same thing.
20141015 02:10:13< iceiceice> but i think i would vote against it still, with my .001 of a vote that i may or may not have :p
20141015 02:10:41< shadowm> And I'd have to use border-image.
20141015 02:10:59< shadowm> ISTR Chrome giving me a lot of problems with that for Iris.
20141015 02:11:00< vultraz> Ok
20141015 02:15:12< vultraz> In which case I can propose no more style updates
20141015 02:15:16< vultraz> anything else will be text
20141015 02:15:18< vultraz> can we merge to master?
20141015 02:15:57< shadowm> I still have a thing pending before I merge.
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20141015 02:20:03< vultraz> shadowm: what's the last thing you saw from me?
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20141015 02:30:39< shadowm> Whatever the log says, vultraz.
20141015 02:36:31< vultraz> shadowm: alright, I inquired whether the thing was related to jsQuery, and stated I'd like shared copyright on westin
20141015 02:38:16< shadowm> What?
20141015 02:38:28< shadowm> I don't know what this jsQuery thing you speak of is.
20141015 02:38:43< vultraz> jQuery
20141015 02:39:00< shadowm> Also, sorry, but you basically didn't write any code I didn't replace other than the download button code (which I replaced 80%) and you got from a button generator site.
20141015 02:40:29< vultraz> I got it and then modified it, yes
20141015 02:41:02< vultraz> But really, the project was mine, my suggestion, I began it, you based work off mine
20141015 02:41:11< vultraz> I feel like I'm being snubbed here
20141015 02:45:44< vultraz> You would not have undergone this project without my initiative
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20141015 02:46:22< shadowm> That'd be like saying you own AtS because I finished it in great part due to your interest in it.
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20141015 02:47:27< vultraz> I did not write the base of AtS
20141015 02:48:09< vultraz> I am perfectly satisfied with the credit I got for my contributions to AtS
20141015 02:51:27< shadowm> Looking at your stylesheet again, your addition was in fact the download button.
20141015 02:51:37< shadowm> *only
20141015 02:52:40< vultraz> I'm referring to the contribution to the refactor project
20141015 02:52:55< shadowm> What refactor project?
20141015 02:52:56< vultraz> My only change to the stylesheet was the dl button, yes
20141015 02:53:06< vultraz> But I heavily edited the template
20141015 02:53:17< shadowm> The page itself is copyrighted to the Battle for Wesnoth Project.
20141015 02:53:30< shadowm> Just like the website's front page, wiki, and error pages.
20141015 02:54:04< shadowm> As far as I am aware, we are both part of the Battle for Wesnoth Project.
20141015 02:55:03< vultraz> Granted 
20141015 02:56:45< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 67a1867c7bf4 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Drop redundant font candidates http://git.io/5TEN2g
20141015 02:57:03< vultraz> But I'm just saying, I feel like my contributions are not being acknowledged 
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20141015 02:57:39< shadowm> Everyone working on this knows that you had a good part on it.
20141015 02:58:03< shadowm> If somebody asks, I'll tell them it was a joint effort, but otherwise they won't even know I was involved.
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20141015 02:59:09< vultraz> Alright
20141015 02:59:12< vultraz> Good enough
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20141015 03:19:25< fabi_> shadowm: Is there a way to get a testing server which allows cheating?
20141015 03:19:47< shadowm> fabi_: wesnothd doesn't support cheating.
20141015 03:19:56< shadowm> Thus, it can't allow or disallow it.
20141015 03:20:04< fabi_> I mean the debug mode.
20141015 03:20:07< fabi_> debug commands
20141015 03:20:27< shadowm> Since 1.7.x or 1.9.x, you can freely enable :debug in networked MP.
20141015 03:20:40< fabi_> oh
20141015 03:20:57< shadowm> It just won't work as you expect because actions like Create Unit do not transmit sync information.
20141015 03:21:05< shadowm> (Which is why they also break local replays.)
20141015 03:21:59< fabi_> So there is no way to test debug me through an mp session of LoW?
20141015 03:22:19< shadowm> Hotseat local MP.
20141015 03:23:09< shadowm> You won't find out about potential WML-induced OOS issues, though, and replays will be surely OOS'ed to oblivion.
20141015 03:24:40< fabi_> hmmm
20141015 03:24:47< fabi_> I think that is not a big problem.
20141015 03:26:43< fabi_> oh
20141015 03:26:48< fabi_> The ai is not locked.
20141015 03:26:59< fabi_> awful
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20141015 03:35:22< mattsc> fabi_: Alarantalara asked me to revert https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e81b89652ab
20141015 03:35:33< mattsc> in order to fix: https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?22790
20141015 03:36:07< mattsc> since the instructions say something different from what the behavior is now (and we can still change how it works, but not the strings)
20141015 03:36:12< mattsc> fabi_: any objections?
20141015 03:36:32< shadowm> That only deals with point 1 of the report.
20141015 03:36:56< mattsc> *in order to fix part one of the report
20141015 03:40:05< fabi_> mattsc: No
20141015 03:41:15< mattsc> fabi_: okay, I can do that tomorrow then (having weird computer problems at the moment that I want to take care of first)
20141015 03:42:33< mattsc> Alarantalara is still looking into the other two problems reported in that same report, as well as the other two UtBS bugs reported the next day
20141015 03:43:23< fabi_> mattsc: Is alarantalara the maintainer of UtBS?
20141015 03:52:31< mattsc> fabi_: yes
20141015 03:52:44< fabi_> cool
20141015 03:54:29< mattsc> fabi_: well, I guess if you look at the credits, so are you; and zookeeper; and shadowm; and a bunch of others
20141015 03:54:37< mattsc> but Alarantalara has done all the recent work
20141015 03:54:48< shadowm> A much better question is who *isn't* a UtBS maintainer.
20141015 03:54:56< fabi_> I am not.
20141015 03:55:01< vultraz> I am not.
20141015 03:55:03< shadowm> Neither am I.
20141015 03:55:34< fabi_> mattsc: Please remove me from the credits of UtBS. I do not want to get asked about UtBS specific stuff.
20141015 03:55:37< shadowm> At one point there were like a dozen people all independently claiming to be the maintainer.
20141015 03:56:04< fabi_> Don't talk about it.
20141015 03:56:41 * shadowm takes a look at wesnoth.org's GA stats.
20141015 03:57:08< mattsc> fabi_: okay, will do  (tomorrow)
20141015 03:57:19< mattsc> Tomorrow in my time zone, today in yours  ;)
20141015 03:57:55< shadowm> 28 people are time travelers.
20141015 03:58:11< shadowm> 28 people claiming to use IE 6 during the last month.
20141015 03:58:31< shadowm> If I ever come across one of them I'm going to pie them in the face.
20141015 03:59:00< shadowm> One client identified as "IE 999.1".
20141015 03:59:15< vultraz> wat
20141015 03:59:28< shadowm> Someone has a sense of humor.
20141015 03:59:48< shadowm> Alternatively, they are running an internal MS build and that's how they identify those? I don't know.
20141015 04:01:10< vultraz> We have a Wesnoth player at Microsoft?
20141015 04:01:20< shadowm> It seems like I was right in my suspicion that supporting only IE 8+ would be the right thing to do.
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20141015 04:05:06< shadowm> 985 IE 7 users (or bots claiming to be such) since the start of the year.
20141015 04:06:14< vultraz> I recommend only supporting IE9+
20141015 04:06:20< vultraz> the current version is 11 or 12
20141015 04:06:26< shadowm> I'm surprised that the number of IE 11 sessions is larger than that of IE 10 + IE 8 combined.
20141015 04:06:40< vultraz> No point supporting the ugly mess that is IE8
20141015 04:06:51< shadowm> I guess the average Wesnoth player is tech-savvy enough to understand upgrades.
20141015 04:07:01< shadowm> Or block GA.
20141015 04:07:48< vultraz> Most people don't use legacy software
20141015 04:08:50< shadowm> vultraz, vultraz, vultraz.
20141015 04:09:17< shadowm> Then tell me why the number of sessions on Windows 7 is larger than the number of sessions on XP and 8.1 and 8 combined.
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20141015 04:10:02< vultraz> Because people always usually use the last two versions of windows, and a lot of people still don't like the changes wrought in 8
20141015 04:10:05< shadowm> Or even why the XP sessions count is larger than 8.1.
20141015 04:10:19< shadowm> Which is in turn larger than 8.
20141015 04:10:33< vultraz> The XP crowd, however, is simply idiotic
20141015 04:10:36< shadowm> Which is in turn about twice the count of Vista.
20141015 04:10:58< vultraz> If you use Vista you're even worse
20141015 04:11:00< shadowm> Or they can't afford newer machines.
20141015 04:11:06-!- oldlaptop [~quassel@50-108-67-218.adr01.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20141015 04:11:21< shadowm> Or they have decent hardware and can't afford selling their livers for a license.
20141015 04:11:35< shadowm> Because most people need a liver to function properly.
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20141015 04:12:36< vultraz> That doesn't explain why you support < IE8
20141015 04:12:46< shadowm> Or -- and this is just a crazy guess on my part -- they don't understand computers.
20141015 04:13:02< ancestral> vultraz: I think it’s like… 1% outside of China?
20141015 04:13:07< shadowm> > you support < IE 8
20141015 04:13:13< shadowm> I do?
20141015 04:13:22< shadowm> glamdrol does, and glamdrol was written in 2005.
20141015 04:13:33< ancestral> glam drool
20141015 04:13:41< shadowm> phpBB does, and phpBB is using legacy styles designed around the same time.
20141015 04:14:40< shadowm> For Iris I didn't find a *need* to break compatibility with IE 8 through 10.
20141015 04:14:53< shadowm> Most things work with graceful degradation techniques.
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20141015 04:16:29< shadowm> And this is the very limited extent to which I support IE 6 and 7, more of a learning exercise for Wesmere than aynthing: https://gist.github.com/shikadilord/c08970cd9de9142dd6ef
20141015 04:17:08< ancestral> WesNOTH, WesTIN, WesMERE
20141015 04:18:40< iceiceice> for what its worth, i would use XP over vista given the choice
20141015 04:18:45< iceiceice> and probably 98 SE over XP
20141015 04:18:47< ancestral> Hey, you have a middle name — it’s more than just an initial!
20141015 04:19:09< vultraz> hipster lvl: iceiceice 
20141015 04:19:10< ancestral> “It’s more than just an initial!™”
20141015 04:19:50< shadowm> ice³
20141015 04:19:53< ancestral> iceiceice: 98 SE was s**t
20141015 04:20:16< ancestral> Well, okay, I had very limited experience with it
20141015 04:20:42< ancestral> From what others told me, ME was foul garbage
20141015 04:21:01< iceiceice> 98 SE was like the highpoint of windows development
20141015 04:21:13< iceiceice> it was, pretty stable....
20141015 04:21:28< shadowm> 9x's memory protection model was an absolute mockery of what protected mode was designed for.
20141015 04:21:30< iceiceice> it solved most of the crippling security issues of 95
20141015 04:21:42< iceiceice> by some standard...
20141015 04:22:20< shadowm> Maybe if you didn't get non-WDM drivers and legacy/DOS applications forced into your system, and even then.
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20141015 04:22:31< fabi_> The first Windows that convinced me to be a good OS is Windows7.
20141015 04:22:45< fabi_> XP already worked.
20141015 04:22:57< fabi_> But all those DOS based things...
20141015 04:23:06< shadowm> Any process still had the ability to corrupt the kernel arena and trash your execution state.
20141015 04:23:07< iceiceice> XP was a lot better than vista and ME... but it was really overengineered
20141015 04:23:30< iceiceice> the more time they spent workign and the more engineers they had, the more they replaced simple "control panel' with endless raft of crap,
20141015 04:23:47< iceiceice> its hard to come up with examples that top the "virtual store" from recent versions
20141015 04:23:53< iceiceice> i mean that is really priceless
20141015 04:24:20< vultraz> I personally think 8.1 is the best version of windows so far
20141015 04:24:34< shadowm> XP's category-based Control Panel still makes more sense than what they continued to do in later versions.
20141015 04:24:43< iceiceice> i only dimly remember using XP but i remember feeling they spent half their time thinking up landmines to plant for me
20141015 04:24:46< shadowm> Windows 8/8.1 is a usability trainwreck.
20141015 04:24:46< ancestral> I guess I just grew up in a different time, in a different universe
20141015 04:24:56< iceiceice> i liked DOS
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20141015 04:25:02< iceiceice> i was sad when they basically got rid of it
20141015 04:25:14< iceiceice> i also hadnt used a real OS at that time :)
20141015 04:25:24< fabi_> iceiceice: I switched from AmigaOS to DOS. And that was a pain.
20141015 04:25:31< iceiceice> i didnt use linux until i went to college
20141015 04:25:47< iceiceice> i dont even really know what an amiga is
20141015 04:25:49< ancestral> System 6, man
20141015 04:26:21< ancestral> I grew up as a kid with this! http://www.iapplehow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Hypercard.jpg
20141015 04:26:33< ancestral> It was the web before there was a web!
20141015 04:26:54< fabi_> from apple?
20141015 04:26:58< fabi_> how scary 
20141015 04:27:12< iceiceice> i had a really crappy 286 with a monochrome screen for a few years XD
20141015 04:27:20< iceiceice> it could run qbasic :)
20141015 04:28:01< ancestral> Heh
20141015 04:28:06< fabi_> My first IBM compatible was a 386 DX40.
20141015 04:28:08< fabi_> or 33
20141015 04:30:31< fabi_> It looks like the while MP stuff is still broken.
20141015 04:30:38< fabi_> s/while/whole
20141015 04:32:40< iceiceice> what's broken?
20141015 04:32:48< iceiceice> i didnt test it in some time
20141015 04:41:43< iceiceice> theres still issues with save loads of certain kinds but a straight playthrough should work and manual reloads should work
20141015 04:41:49< iceiceice> unless people broke stuff in the recent months
20141015 04:41:55< iceiceice> i think autosaves are reported broken
20141015 04:42:13< iceiceice> and start of scenario saves are probably broken
20141015 04:44:48< ancestral> That wouldn’t be good
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20141015 04:47:36< iceiceice> shadowm: i'd like to merge mp ui sounds thing
20141015 04:47:47< iceiceice> i think i fixed the problems you mentioned before
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20141015 04:47:56< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/297
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20141015 04:53:01< shadowm> I'm a bit busy atm, after the merge I'll take a look at a tiny cosmetic issue I didn't mention.
20141015 04:54:38< shadowm> vultraz: Do you think it might be better to go back to your original banner image layout with the shield on the empty space between the castle and the forest on the left?
20141015 04:55:38< iceiceice> ok thanks again
20141015 04:55:45< shadowm> Because it's impossible to center the shield on the towers without shifting everything to the left, which would pose a major problem since its right edge is the right edge of the original high-res image.
20141015 04:56:03< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 6fd4e3c64e9e / / (8 files in 4 dirs): add lobby sounds options dialog, launching from pref->multiplayer http://git.io/eGjjEg
20141015 04:56:05< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master c81306fae371 / src/gui/dialogs/lobby_sounds_options.cpp: add callbacks for lobby_sounds_options dialog, linking to prefs http://git.io/G9KwkA
20141015 04:56:07< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 05448fe34b08 / src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): add mp_ui_sounds namespace to handle prefs, sound, notifications http://git.io/vlqTSw
20141015 04:56:09< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master bb08fae9f697 / src/gui/dialogs/lobby_sounds_options.cpp: fixup use of vgettext http://git.io/cSF5Mw
20141015 04:56:11< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master a2ed0df9731d / / (3 files in 2 dirs): add friend_message preferences and handler http://git.io/t88leg
20141015 04:56:13< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 3a5eec03a4fc / src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): make all lobbies, mp ui screens, and chat handlers use the new code http://git.io/DnjAlQ
20141015 04:56:15< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master ac6e648fc19a / / (2 files in 2 dirs): add "revert to defaults" button to lobby sounds pref manager http://git.io/keTEVQ
20141015 04:56:17< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 17d6b5e574b1 / src/ (game_config.cpp game_config.hpp mp_ui_sounds.cpp): read sounds from the game_config.cfg, rename sounds to match ui ids http://git.io/CI7HqA
20141015 04:56:19< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 6bc34b03efb0 / / (4 files in 3 dirs): remove "lobby sounds" advanced preference http://git.io/HC-q_g
20141015 04:56:21< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 788eb1b240c3 / / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix a bug caused by exchanging "ready_for_start" <-> "ready_to_start" http://git.io/JT1PDg
20141015 04:56:23< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 634ff7a2bb6c / data/game_config.cfg: add the sound entries to the data/game_config.cfg file http://git.io/X11BjA
20141015 04:56:25< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master c7c6cb4de78e / src/gui/dialogs/lobby_sounds_options.cpp: fixup lobby_sounds_option dialog: remove tooltips for sounds http://git.io/dt_43Q
20141015 04:56:27< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 56530d2bf19b / / (3 files in 3 dirs): grey out the notifications opts when they weren't compiled in http://git.io/fUDD5g
20141015 04:56:29< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 2f78d72d5699 / / (3 files in 3 dirs): fix bug where preferences seemed not to be saved http://git.io/_Qq3oQ
20141015 04:56:31< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 5a053a13bc09 / src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): rename mp_ui_sounds -> mp_ui_alerts http://git.io/RZ0YuQ
20141015 04:56:33< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 20bb831e5c38 / src/ (game_preferences_display.cpp preferences_display.hpp): rename "lobby sounds" button to "alerts" http://git.io/1LsC0w
20141015 04:56:35< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master b937d2d1bdd9 / / (11 files in 4 dirs): rename "lobby_sounds_options" -> "mp_alerts_options" http://git.io/2ouklg
20141015 04:56:37< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 3be095026d0e / data/gui/default/window/mp_alerts_options.cfg: change title "Lobby Sounds" -> "Multiplayer Alerts", fix tooltips http://git.io/Th5-Mw
20141015 04:56:39< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 3c562f6d28e4 / src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): for chats, put the msg in desktop notification, not vague nonsense http://git.io/rcrCag
20141015 04:56:41< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 598660414892 / src/gui/dialogs/ (lobby_main.cpp lobby_main.hpp): cleanup some stuff -- allow old use of do_notify in tlobby_main http://git.io/hgL4Qw
20141015 04:56:43< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master a819a51feb7f / src/gui/dialogs/ (mp_alerts_options.cpp mp_alerts_options.hpp): fix a copyright statement http://git.io/1SSOSQ
20141015 04:56:45< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 13bf36ea72bf / / (22 files in 5 dirs): Merge pull request #297 from cbeck88/mp_ui_sounds_options http://git.io/0YfllA
20141015 04:57:54< shadowm> Wow that's a lot of commits.
20141015 05:03:41< vultraz> shadowm: perhaps
20141015 05:03:52< vultraz> see how it looks
20141015 05:04:09< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 53c0b04a6aad / changelog: update changelog http://git.io/we2JUg
20141015 05:04:11< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master c5cadf6522e0 / players_changelog: update players_changelog http://git.io/iUAaUg
20141015 05:04:13< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 156e8969f83c / RELEASE_NOTES: update RELEASE_NOTES http://git.io/NDkS3g
20141015 05:04:15< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 32ffaf7201ca / RELEASE_NOTES: remove some stuff that was previously announced in 1.11.17 release http://git.io/fcgF9A
20141015 05:04:17< irker363> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master aa78599fa849 / / (93 files in 27 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/Q6Evcw
20141015 05:04:48< iceiceice> shadowm: yeah i could have rebased maybe but i dont think it was worth it
20141015 05:05:00< iceiceice> all of these commits are pretty small
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20141015 05:11:55< vultraz> shadowm: honestly, I don't see it as a bgi issue
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20141015 05:19:35< fabi_> shadowm: Can we have the dev version point to a fresh instance of the addon server?
20141015 05:20:43< fabi_> Just to make sure that no 1.13+ content is uploaded to what gets the server of the next stable. 
20141015 05:21:51< shadowm> You mean point it to an unassigned port?
20141015 05:22:17< shadowm> Then I'd be getting random reports of people wondering why they get "connection refused" from the server.
20141015 05:23:40< fabi_> No, I mean it is time to separate the add-on servers for new stable and dev.
20141015 05:23:49< shadowm> Not really.
20141015 05:23:54< fabi_> It seems to me that this did not happen yet.
20141015 05:23:55< iceiceice> fabi_: if i understand correctly, the "odd numbered" addon servers never just become the "even numbered" servers
20141015 05:24:02< iceiceice> they are always kept separate
20141015 05:24:15< fabi_> So 1.12 will come with an empty one.
20141015 05:24:25< vultraz> 1.12 HAS one
20141015 05:24:27< shadowm> 1.12 already got a new instance for 1.11.10.
20141015 05:24:28< vultraz> since months
20141015 05:24:49< vultraz> Every new stable gets one, which goes into the dev version
20141015 05:24:53< vultraz> (I think)
20141015 05:24:58< shadowm> 1.9.x was the exception.
20141015 05:25:17< fabi_> Okay
20141015 05:26:08< shadowm> I don't know what 1.13.0-dev is pointing at right now and I'd like to find the time to retrofit server redirection into it first, before resorting to allocating YET ANOTHER port.
20141015 05:26:29< fabi_> Are there any statistics about the different addon server instances?
20141015 05:26:57< shadowm> The only direct statistics we collect are the number of downloads for each add-on.
20141015 05:27:20< fabi_> I just want to know how many addons are on witch server.
20141015 05:27:23< shadowm> We do have more extensive logs but so far nobody has found the need to write a stats collector that reads them.
20141015 05:27:31< shadowm> Oh, add-on counts.
20141015 05:27:37< shadowm> That's easy enough.
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20141015 05:31:13< shadowm> fabi_: https://gist.github.com/shikadilord/d91bae4c3b2618f51829
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20141015 06:23:29< fabi_> shadowm: Thank you.
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20141015 06:45:57< fabi_> I like to get rid of https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?4120
20141015 06:52:16< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 0c101c4a25be / start/1.12/ (images/header-1920.jpg styles/westin.css): Rearrange header bg, apply a fading border, and make section divider thinner http://git.io/KDXlrw
20141015 06:54:06< shadowm> vultraz: Ctrl+F5 on http://shadowm.ai0867.net/westin-test/template.html
20141015 06:56:36< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 1a0442d1d7cf / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Drop the problematic top area size animation rules http://git.io/0EkZlQ
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20141015 08:27:07< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 655442759f35 / start/1.12/template.html: BfW -> TBfW in major content http://git.io/jOBvOw
20141015 08:27:10< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 5a3ee2c90e11 / start/1.12/images/title.png: Remove unused image http://git.io/O2Vs4A
20141015 08:27:13< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 92a56e21314d / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Clean-up and fix header style inconsistencies http://git.io/H0DhRg
20141015 08:27:16< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style be5ea5b98ebc / start/1.12/template.html: Use non-breaking spaces for the first "The Battle for Wesnoth" title mention http://git.io/r6JRAw
20141015 08:31:57< shadowm> 1.10/index.es.html: <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
20141015 08:32:14< shadowm> gg po4a-gettextize.
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20141015 08:41:09< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 71ba7507a547 / start/1.12/template.html: Engage HTML(5) mode http://git.io/m3ZJPA
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20141015 08:52:06< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 4098179fad6a / start/1.12/template.html: Everyone uses CSS these days http://git.io/A8B9Sw
20141015 08:52:09< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style a0f8e142c02c / start/1.12/ (styles/westin.css template.html): Replace random <br/> preceding the download button with a margin spec http://git.io/lNgSEg
20141015 08:55:40< irker363> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style c35c881924d3 / start/1.12/template.html: Don't let IE fallback to legacy rendering http://git.io/jYimiA
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20141015 09:20:37< vultraz> shadowm: definitely makes the logo stand out more
20141015 09:21:39< vultraz> comparing, the old one really clashed with the tower
20141015 09:22:17< vultraz> kudos
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20141015 11:29:51< fabi_> shadowm: Do you think it is okay to drop the "Map" from "Map Editor"?
20141015 11:31:14< fabi_> In the button's text at the title screen for example.
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20141015 12:25:53< zookeeper> well it should be called "map editor" as long as that's what it is...
20141015 12:26:12< zookeeper> which certainly seems to be the case in 1.11.17, dunno about master.
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20141015 13:34:24< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 3e0d21fe1952 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/dehydration-utils.cfg: Revert "UtBS::2: Reduced the effects of dehydration." http://git.io/Mddb0g
20141015 13:34:24< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 0ccb6a9d5479 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/_main.cfg: Remove fabi/fendrin from UtBS maintainers list http://git.io/FcCiVw
20141015 13:34:25< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master e69be59f85dd / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/_main.cfg: Remove trailing whitespaces http://git.io/QAU1rA
20141015 13:34:51< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 e6198d720f29 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/utils/dehydration-utils.cfg: Revert "UtBS::2: Reduced the effects of dehydration." http://git.io/FUuaFA
20141015 13:35:56< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 8352bf9cba44 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/_main.cfg: Remove trailing whitespaces http://git.io/QXQpaA
20141015 13:35:58< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 a71e7eab367c / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/_main.cfg: Remove fabi/fendrin from UtBS maintainers list http://git.io/EUsSYg
20141015 13:36:11< mattsc> fabi_: ^
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20141015 14:09:21< irker853> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master 50eff1719dd4 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Xcode project file update http://git.io/QTMmzA
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20141015 14:47:36< mattsc> hi lipkab 
20141015 14:47:44< lipkab> Hi mattsc.
20141015 14:48:04< mattsc> lipkab: do you now that shadowm was looking for input from you for the 1.12 announcement?
20141015 14:48:11< mattsc> s/now/know
20141015 14:48:31< lipkab> I'm reading it right now.
20141015 14:49:10< mattsc> lipkab: great  (and never mind then, just wanted to make sure you’ve seen it)
20141015 14:50:57< vultraz> I'm rewriting a section right now
20141015 14:51:05< vultraz> (text)
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20141015 14:56:05< lipkab> mattsc, shadowm: I'll write my part asap.
20141015 14:56:33< lipkab> Which does not include MP campaigns, by the way, I have barely anything to do with that.
20141015 14:57:42< lipkab> Are there any rules for screenshots?
20141015 14:58:08< lipkab> (Resolution and such)
20141015 15:08:25< mattsc> lipkab: thanks - and shadowm does have some rules, but I don’t know the details
20141015 15:09:20< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style 9253c4f2deb9 / start/1.12/template.html: Rewrote the section about improved error reporting at al http://git.io/h8mDww
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20141015 16:47:33< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style 1f88d1eb24c6 / start/1.12/template.html: Small punctuation fix http://git.io/GJKEoA
20141015 16:47:35< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style fc0e00750976 / start/1.12/template.html: Added a paragraph about the wmltools gui, and fixed a typo http://git.io/GhNnwg
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20141015 16:54:51< vultraz>  Looking at this text again, there's so much area to improve
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20141015 17:00:02< mattsc> iceiceice: concerning #22814, there have been discussions about this before (I remember seeing them, but not where) and it was a conscious decision to set it up in this way.
20141015 17:00:45< mattsc> One possible use case would be if you start a scenario so that player 1 can immediately attack player 2, and then it would be nice for P2 to get healing etc.
20141015 17:01:18< mattsc> Or, if you bring units over from the previous scneario “as they are” (as in, without healing them or changing their positions on the map).
20141015 17:01:37< iceiceice> i think there should be a flag in multiplayer or something then
20141015 17:01:46< mattsc> But there are workarounds for all of these cases that a scenario designer can use, so I would claim this is a design decision and mark it “won’t fix"
20141015 17:01:51< iceiceice> if you just did what OP suggests, and have all sceanrios have upkeep on turn 1, that would be bad
20141015 17:02:46< mattsc> iceiceice: as i just wrote, I agree and would simply mark it as “won’t fix”
20141015 17:02:48< iceiceice> yeah i see
20141015 17:02:57< mattsc> but you might want to wait for other s to pipe up.
20141015 17:03:16< mattsc> somebody might even have a link to the previous discussions on this (I’m too lazy to search the forums or irc)
20141015 17:04:38< mattsc> IIRC, it comes down to: there are a few use cases when this would be good, and many many when it would be bad.  Given that there are workarounds, I don’t think it’s worth the effort of making it an option.
20141015 17:04:46< mattsc> OAB or something ...
20141015 17:08:11< zookeeper> i'm pretty sure it's been discussed before at some point
20141015 17:15:09< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style 95f4740efc07 / start/1.12/template.html: Rewrote section on screenshots and file paths http://git.io/XLc3_g
20141015 17:15:11< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style 3d2532db276e / start/1.12/template.html: Small tweaks to the first few paragraphs http://git.io/uaHaGw
20141015 17:15:54< zookeeper> mattsc, btw, i think i'm gonna fix #22800
20141015 17:16:06< zookeeper> (just in case...)
20141015 17:17:24< mattsc> zookeeper: great!  You might want to drop Alarantalara a PM to let him know.  I had not been planning to look into it (yet)
20141015 17:17:44< vultraz> lipkab: btw, please commit your text to the westin branch when you write it
20141015 17:18:22< vultraz> well, as long as you commit before it gets merged ;)
20141015 17:21:21< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:westin-announcement-style ce73a79bf72d / start/1.12/template.html: Changed a few stray html attribute quotes to apostrophes http://git.io/RpQftw
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20141015 17:43:52< fabi_> mattsc: hello and thank you
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20141015 18:36:18< irker853> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master baf4fec0adde / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fixed bug #22800 and removed a redundant macro http://git.io/CdZ17A
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20141015 18:51:33< vultraz> shadowm: that's all the text I can see that needs amending, save one or two possible small changes 
20141015 18:52:56 * zookeeper wonders why 31d459 was not applied to 1.12
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20141015 19:08:30< irker853> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 41466dc175dc / / (4 files in 3 dirs): Fixed bug #22800 and removed a redundant macro http://git.io/PP6q9A
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20141015 21:01:08< shadowm> fabi_: What zookeeper said, otherwise we get questions like "how do I add an event to a map in the editor".
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20141015 21:02:49< shadowm> lipkab: We already have enough screenshots AFAIAC.
20141015 21:04:01< shadowm> !commit 31d459
20141015 21:04:02< shikadibot> shadowm: Revision 31d459620d4d (Alarantalara) on Mon Jun  2 00:04:03 2014:
20141015 21:04:06< shikadibot> shadowm: UtBS: Make assassin appear in scenario 5
20141015 21:04:08< fabi_> At the moment I drop a few lines for the ingame editor help section.
20141015 21:04:08< shikadibot> shadowm:  
20141015 21:04:11< shikadibot> shadowm: Event name was improperly identifying variable names.
20141015 21:04:13< shikadibot> shadowm: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/31d459620d4d
20141015 21:04:59< shadowm> zookeeper: He probably forgot about it.
20141015 21:05:02< fabi_> Since I already have a "Scenario Mode" and a "Map Mode" I wonder how to sell that both modes live together in a "Map Editor".
20141015 21:05:29< fabi_> That is why I called the help section "Scenario/Map Editor".
20141015 21:05:42< shadowm> The scenario mode is clearly incomplete and experimental, so you can justify its inclusion under the Map Editor that way.
20141015 21:06:21< fabi_> I do not want to write the help documentation twice.
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20141015 21:07:14< shadowm> That would be bad, yes.
20141015 21:07:41< shadowm> No idea why would that even happen, though.
20141015 21:08:11< fabi_> Well, the structure will cover the final state of the editor.
20141015 21:08:45< fabi_> I don't start like "Okay, feature x is experimental that is why I don't bother about its inclusion into the help system properly.
20141015 21:09:08 * shadowm appears to have missed this train.
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20141015 21:09:21< shadowm> lipkab: 1024x768 game resolution, there are no hard and fast rules regarding the cropping for the announcement page.
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20141015 21:09:34< shadowm> JPEG format, quality 90.
20141015 21:10:10< shadowm> I'd like to switch the PNG for the large versions but I haven't checked the numbers yet. I do have the originals for every screenshot I've made since the 1.11.7 announcement.
20141015 21:10:53< shadowm> I can't fathom why we've been using JPEG for them for almost a decade.
20141015 21:11:38< shadowm> Ivanovic: Did we use to be hosted on a server where used bandwidth was a major concern?
20141015 21:11:49< Ivanovic> yes
20141015 21:11:53< fabi_> Are we really doing all screenshots in 1024x768 and avoid portraits because they are downscaled there?
20141015 21:12:00< Ivanovic> we only had 5TB per month
20141015 21:12:07< Ivanovic> no idea what we have in our current contract
20141015 21:12:25< zookeeper> i've in the past always taken my screenshots in 1024x768 as per the standard, but i think we really should up that
20141015 21:12:32< shadowm> Yes, but not because they are downscaled, but rather because 1) the scaling factor algorithm sucks; 2) the scaling algorithm also sucks.
20141015 21:12:40< zookeeper> that size is getting pretty tiny
20141015 21:12:51< fabi_> yeah, what zookeeper says
20141015 21:13:20< shadowm> I see you want me to spend another day trying to get the animation timing right. :p
20141015 21:13:38< shadowm> I asked the other day for the next larger *standard* resolution and nobody responded.
20141015 21:13:55< fabi_> 1280x1050
20141015 21:14:05< shadowm> No.
20141015 21:14:18< shadowm> That sounds clearly non-standard, and my screen is 1920x1080.
20141015 21:14:25< fabi_> yeah
20141015 21:14:30< fabi_> 1680x1050
20141015 21:14:41< fabi_> 16:10 ratio
20141015 21:14:45< Ivanovic> after 1024x768 many people had 17/19" screens with 1280x768
20141015 21:14:54< fabi_> yes
20141015 21:14:54< Ivanovic> ehm, sorry, 1280x1024
20141015 21:15:02< Ivanovic> those in 5x4 format
20141015 21:15:12< fabi_> but don't do a 4:3 or 5:4 format.
20141015 21:15:16< shadowm> I think it's a choice between 1280x768, 1280x800, and 1366x768 these days.
20141015 21:15:20< Ivanovic> but these days many entry level laptops feature 1333x768 screens (or something like this)
20141015 21:15:25< fabi_> Let's choose one out of 16:10 or 16:9
20141015 21:15:48< lipkab> shadowm: Thanks. I saw there're plenty screenshots, but none of them show the MP interface. I think that's worth an image.
20141015 21:15:55< Ivanovic> but going for "HD" would also be an option
20141015 21:16:00< Ivanovic> that is 1280x720
20141015 21:16:15< fabi_> ^ sounds fine
20141015 21:16:33< fabi_> but this will cripple the interface
20141015 21:16:49< shadowm> lipkab: The thumbnails are cropped, which as you can see for the Add-ons Manager screenshot, doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing with non-game UI screenshots.
20141015 21:16:58< Ivanovic> so the 16:10 version of 1280x800?
20141015 21:17:30< fabi_> <768 is bad
20141015 21:17:55< lipkab> Hmm, okay.
20141015 21:18:06< shadowm> lipkab: Oh, and if you are on Linux, do not use slight/none hinting.
20141015 21:18:10< zookeeper> 1280x1024 or 1280x960
20141015 21:18:32< Ivanovic> or 1366x768
20141015 21:18:42< zookeeper> i don't really see a problem with using a "non-standard" res for screenshots either
20141015 21:18:45< Ivanovic> since that is the 16:9 resolution which many "entry level" laptops are sold with
20141015 21:18:45< shadowm> Standard Linux stack with medium/full hinting looks more or less the same as Windows since the ClearType workaround.
20141015 21:18:57< lipkab> I'm on Linux and I have no clue what kind of hinting I use.
20141015 21:19:35< shadowm> That's easy to tell from how fonts are rendered for you compared to my screenshot of the Add-ons Manager options dialog.
20141015 21:19:51< shadowm> On GUI2 dialogs. GUI1/SDL_ttf elements always use full hinting.
20141015 21:19:53< fabi_> I think we should use a res that makes Wesnoth look good.
20141015 21:20:28< Ivanovic> anyway, i am off to bed, n8
20141015 21:20:36< lipkab> Bye.
20141015 21:20:41< shadowm> Ivanovic: So, JPEG or PNG?
20141015 21:21:00< Ivanovic> shadowm: how much bandwidth are we allowed to use per month?
20141015 21:21:03< shadowm> We can keep using JPEG for thumbnails and PNG ofr the larger versions.
20141015 21:21:08< Ivanovic> and how large is the difference in the file size?
20141015 21:21:18< shadowm> I don't know. I've asked you several versions of the same question in the admins channel before.
20141015 21:21:24< Ivanovic> anyway, as you can hear: i don't care much
20141015 21:21:44< Ivanovic> and as you can hear, i have no idea what our contract says
20141015 21:21:50< Ivanovic> ask noy about those contractual details
20141015 21:21:52< Ivanovic> ;)
20141015 21:21:55< shadowm> Who would know for sure? -- Okay
20141015 21:22:27< shadowm> 453.8 KiB to 1.6 MiB for the EI screenshot.
20141015 21:22:51< shadowm> I.e. this: http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/images/start-1-full.jpg
20141015 21:22:54< Ivanovic> hmm, that is significant
20141015 21:23:12< Ivanovic> anyway, i am off to bed
20141015 21:23:30< fabi_> shadowm: titlescreen.png is in 1280x960 and thus unscaled in this resolution. I say this is the best choice.
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20141015 21:23:58< shadowm> I am not sure about showing the titlescreen in the announcement.
20141015 21:24:16< fabi_> hmmm
20141015 21:24:21< shadowm> Every previous announcement uses cropped rather than scaled thumbnails.
20141015 21:24:32< shadowm> Cropping a screenshot of the titlescreen kind of misses the point.
20141015 21:24:40< fabi_> I think it is one thing that made the most progress from 10 to 12.
20141015 21:25:28< shadowm> Potentially, we could add some text under the title break and add a scaled down screenshot of the titlescreen before the first full section.
20141015 21:25:40< shadowm> s/and add/and/
20141015 21:26:25< zookeeper> omg, i used the screenshot functionality for the first time... i don't know, ever? and it's great
20141015 21:26:29< shadowm> vultraz: You deleted my "greatly improved" phrase, I hate you.
20141015 21:26:54< fabi_> zookeeper: The saving map is png image is also nice.
20141015 21:27:00< fabi_> s/is/as
20141015 21:27:10< shadowm> fabi_: I didn't have time to implement that.
20141015 21:27:18< lipkab> I don't think 1280x960 would make all that sense considering that standard laptop resolutions are 1600x900 and 1366x768 nowadays.
20141015 21:27:30< shadowm> All screenshots are still BMP.
20141015 21:27:39< fabi_> oh
20141015 21:28:25< shadowm> I needed additional time to 1) figure out the Cish mess I got as reference; and 2) ensure the code was usable from a licensing standpoint.
20141015 21:28:59< zookeeper> shadowm, i'd very much suggest jpg for the screenshots. max compression is indistinguishable from lossless and a lot smaller than a png would (according to a quick test of mine, anyway).
20141015 21:29:15< shadowm> Plus 3) overcome my absolute hatred of libpng's API.
20141015 21:30:52< shadowm> zookeeper: The screenshot in question is only 300 KiB less than the PNG version as a q100 JPEG.
20141015 21:31:13< shadowm> Quality 90: 453.8 KiB. Quality 100: 1.3 MiB. PNG: 1.6 MiB.
20141015 21:31:38< zookeeper> which shot is that?
20141015 21:31:47< shadowm> Also, I think you meant mininum compression or maximum quality, not maximum compression.
20141015 21:31:53< shadowm> http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/images/start-1-full.jpg
20141015 21:31:56< zookeeper> eh, yes, i did :P
20141015 21:34:59< zookeeper> from my own pretty normal'ish test shots i get figures like 1.45mb -> 0.87mb and 2.31mb -> 1.31mb
20141015 21:35:24< shadowm> vultraz: You kind of butchered the Game Paths/Screenshot dialog descriptions grammar-wise.
20141015 21:36:05< shadowm> vultraz: Also, you removed the hotkey configuration hint for the Screenshot dialog. This is bad, because there is no hotkey bound for the action by default.
20141015 21:36:33< shadowm> (For some reason most likely involving the fact that we don't want to use PrtSc because it's usually also used by the window manager.)
20141015 21:37:07< zookeeper> and if i drop the quality from 100 to 95, the size drops by almost another 50% and i can't see the difference side-by-side, only if i flip between the images, zoom in and squint a bit
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20141015 21:37:55< shadowm> vultraz: "screenshots folder on disk". You erased a lot of unnecessarily specific wording from me and then proceeded to add this?
20141015 21:38:49< shadowm> I am trying to find the logic behind clarifying that the folder in question is stored on a disk drive.
20141015 21:39:06< zookeeper> well someone could expect it to be in the cloud!
20141015 21:39:08< shadowm> (And it isn't for me when running with the wesnoth-defaults wrapper -- it's stored on tmpfs.)
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20141015 21:39:57< shadowm> vultraz: The screenshot hotkey sequence has *ALWAYS* been customizable.
20141015 21:40:00< shadowm> That's the point.
20141015 21:40:11< shadowm> It's nothing by default.
20141015 21:40:58< shadowm> vultraz: "To further assist WML authors, a graphical interface has been added for the three main WML maintenance scripts (wmllint, wmlindent, and wmlscope), providing a convenient alternative to running them on the command line." This isn't found in the main game and you provided no instructions or wiki links for this.
20141015 21:42:12< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style d1ee8d743f3c / start/1.12/template.html: Fix grammar http://git.io/QVaphA
20141015 21:44:25< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style eb6dce73afa4 / start/1.12/template.html: Remove text that does not apply http://git.io/R5JwSA
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20141015 21:48:12< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 482dbb069170 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Add <code> element style http://git.io/Wqbgzw
20141015 21:48:15< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:westin-announcement-style 320e6cf2530b / start/1.12/template.html: Use <code> for the names of command-line tools http://git.io/_Om43A
20141015 21:49:10< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 6ebd4fbbdd21 / start/1.12/ (7 files in 3 dirs): New release announcement style "Westin" by shadowm and vultraz http://git.io/Iu8RNg
20141015 21:49:13< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 6a581e047ee5 / start/1.12/template.html: Use apostrophes instead of quotes in HTML attributes http://git.io/nQujMA
20141015 21:49:16< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 498d3babc3f8 / start/1.12/template.html: Drop dead code http://git.io/-JLk3g
20141015 21:49:19< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 13886c3546ad / start/1.12/styles/intl.css: Center the 'What's new' text http://git.io/p1t9Ww
20141015 21:49:21< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 14c4f6603907 / start/1.12/styles/intl.css: Reorganize CSS rules in sections http://git.io/UNCmig
20141015 21:49:24< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 044395e46f87 / start/1.12/styles/intl.css: Import glamdrol from a non-intranet location to make vultraz less upset http://git.io/v6W1bA
20141015 21:49:27< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 67ba5f138964 / start/1.12/styles/intl.css: CSS coding style fixes http://git.io/YFkWng
20141015 21:49:30< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 09f95baf459c / start/1.12/styles/intl.css: Copyright statement http://git.io/SzfjwA
20141015 21:49:33< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master dec8b22b5993 / start/1.12/ (images/bullet.gif styles/intl.css): Import styles and drop dependency on Glamdrol http://git.io/fVta9g
20141015 21:49:36< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master e0eb3b53fc3c / start/1.12/ (styles/intl.css styles/westin.css template.html): Rename intl.css to westin.css http://git.io/En8Srw
20141015 21:49:39< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 9f1b290dfa52 / start/1.12/template.html: Drop language selection placeholder http://git.io/OHXpeg
20141015 21:49:42< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master bf92f35d4d5b / start/1.12/ (styles/westin.css template.html): Drop element-specific rule, replace it with a class specification http://git.io/61kEMw
20141015 21:49:45< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 2615ed7158e1 / start/1.12/js/ (jquery-1.11.1.min.js jquery-2.1.1.min.js): Check in jQuery until I decide whether to drop the dependency on it http://git.io/PgjEfw
20141015 21:49:48< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master a217680f9c16 / start/1.12/template.html: Reworded part of the Download section http://git.io/QCzHwA
20141015 21:49:50< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master a9bbb64f0cbc / eclipse.wesnoth.org/download.html: Merge branch 'master' into staging/master-to-westin-1 http://git.io/BKzopQ
20141015 21:49:53< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 8461a301017c / start/1.12/template.html: Add bit on new translations http://git.io/6jmYiQ
20141015 21:49:56< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master b9f82f163129 / start/1.12/ (js/westin.js template.html): Split off trailing JS to work around po4a-gettextize stupidity http://git.io/FRmzrw
20141015 21:49:59< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 67a1867c7bf4 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Drop redundant font candidates http://git.io/5TEN2g
20141015 21:50:02< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 0c101c4a25be / start/1.12/ (images/header-1920.jpg styles/westin.css): Rearrange header bg, apply a fading border, and make section divider thinner http://git.io/KDXlrw
20141015 21:50:05< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 1a0442d1d7cf / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Drop the problematic top area size animation rules http://git.io/0EkZlQ
20141015 21:50:08< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 655442759f35 / start/1.12/template.html: BfW -> TBfW in major content http://git.io/jOBvOw
20141015 21:50:11< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 5a3ee2c90e11 / start/1.12/images/title.png: Remove unused image http://git.io/O2Vs4A
20141015 21:50:14< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 92a56e21314d / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Clean-up and fix header style inconsistencies http://git.io/H0DhRg
20141015 21:50:17< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master be5ea5b98ebc / start/1.12/template.html: Use non-breaking spaces for the first "The Battle for Wesnoth" title mention http://git.io/r6JRAw
20141015 21:50:20< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 71ba7507a547 / start/1.12/template.html: Engage HTML(5) mode http://git.io/m3ZJPA
20141015 21:50:23< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 4098179fad6a / start/1.12/template.html: Everyone uses CSS these days http://git.io/A8B9Sw
20141015 21:50:26< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master a0f8e142c02c / start/1.12/ (styles/westin.css template.html): Replace random <br/> preceding the download button with a margin spec http://git.io/lNgSEg
20141015 21:50:29< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master c35c881924d3 / start/1.12/template.html: Don't let IE fallback to legacy rendering http://git.io/jYimiA
20141015 21:50:32< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 9253c4f2deb9 / start/1.12/template.html: Rewrote the section about improved error reporting at al http://git.io/h8mDww
20141015 21:50:34< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 1f88d1eb24c6 / start/1.12/template.html: Small punctuation fix http://git.io/GJKEoA
20141015 21:50:36< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master fc0e00750976 / start/1.12/template.html: Added a paragraph about the wmltools gui, and fixed a typo http://git.io/GhNnwg
20141015 21:50:38< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 95f4740efc07 / start/1.12/template.html: Rewrote section on screenshots and file paths http://git.io/XLc3_g
20141015 21:50:40< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 3d2532db276e / start/1.12/template.html: Small tweaks to the first few paragraphs http://git.io/uaHaGw
20141015 21:50:42< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master ce73a79bf72d / start/1.12/template.html: Changed a few stray html attribute quotes to apostrophes http://git.io/RpQftw
20141015 21:50:44< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master d1ee8d743f3c / start/1.12/template.html: Fix grammar http://git.io/QVaphA
20141015 21:50:47< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master eb6dce73afa4 / start/1.12/template.html: Remove text that does not apply http://git.io/R5JwSA
20141015 21:50:49< zookeeper> is this a contest or what?
20141015 21:50:50< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 482dbb069170 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Add <code> element style http://git.io/Wqbgzw
20141015 21:50:53< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 320e6cf2530b / start/1.12/template.html: Use <code> for the names of command-line tools http://git.io/_Om43A
20141015 21:50:56< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 771da38677d1 / start/1.12/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'westin-announcement-style' http://git.io/_5lf6A
20141015 21:51:10< zookeeper> shadowm wins
20141015 21:51:20< shadowm> What's my prize?
20141015 21:51:25< zookeeper> a wookie
20141015 21:51:36< zookeeper> oh, wait
20141015 21:51:38< zookeeper> cookie
20141015 21:51:47< shadowm> Yay.
20141015 21:51:47< mattsc> I take the wookie then
20141015 21:51:56< zookeeper> sure, sure
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20141015 21:54:32< shadowm> lipkab: You can commit your test to the website master branch instead.
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20141015 21:54:37< shadowm> text
20141015 21:56:15< lipkab> Okay.
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20141015 23:22:17< mattsc> hi fabi 
20141015 23:22:26< fabi> hi mattsc
20141015 23:22:47< mattsc> fabi:  I have a fix for https://gna.org/bugs/?22806
20141015 23:23:11< mattsc> in https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/data/themes/default.cfg#L110
20141015 23:23:31< mattsc> if you change the +65 to +70, the mouseover info is back
20141015 23:23:54< fabi> cool
20141015 23:23:57< mattsc> if you don’t then the villages box overlays the upkeep icon and the mouseover is not displayed
20141015 23:24:09< mattsc> (or something like that, I don’t know if I have the terminology right)
20141015 23:24:15< fabi> i see
20141015 23:24:35< mattsc> visually, it makes almost no perceptible difference
20141015 23:24:43< fabi> Though so. 
20141015 23:25:01< fabi> What is important:
20141015 23:25:38< fabi> Does the observer icon still fit into the top bar at 1024x768. It is a multiplayer only dingli.
20141015 23:26:00< fabi> ?
20141015 23:26:21< mattsc> I don’t know; I haven’t tried;  and that’s why I told you rather than commiting it, because I don’t know what all of this means.
20141015 23:27:43< mattsc> I’ll have to be offline for the next 30-60 minutes; I can check this later tonight if you want me to; otherwise, please go ahead and do it, since you do know what to look for.
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 16 00:00:21 2014