--- Log opened Thu Oct 16 00:00:21 2014
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20141016 00:13:36< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master be595c984c2a / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Handle intro section background for > 1920px (horizontal) screens http://git.io/nr84vA
20141016 00:16:19< fabi> shadowm: "The Editor got a major UI facelift (which makes things worse on the usability front) and a experimental scenario mode."
20141016 00:29:53< shadowm> fabi: Oh, sorry, was busy.
20141016 00:30:03< shadowm> Hahahaha. No.
20141016 00:30:19< fabi> hmmm
20141016 00:30:36< shadowm> The editor's UI facelift seems (to me) to be already covered by the general UI facelift described in the first section.
20141016 00:30:55< fabi> Too fair-minded?
20141016 00:31:49< shadowm> Though you could emphasize the fact that we love consistency with something like "just like the game UI, the editor's visuals were also redesigned, with additional changes to user-editor interaction".
20141016 00:32:05< shadowm> (Don't use that verbatim, it's just a rough outline of what I'd put there.)
20141016 00:32:13< fabi> Well, it went the other way around.
20141016 00:32:25< shadowm> Yes, but people don't know that.
20141016 00:32:49< shadowm> Also, I assume the intention was always to refurnish the whole UI, not just the editor, but the editor served as a convenient testing ground.
20141016 00:33:10< fabi> well yes
20141016 00:33:34< fabi> the thing to hide from the audience is the fact that the new game ui is just a place holder stub thing.
20141016 00:33:59< shadowm> I saw you saying something about a GUI2 widget that worked with a single click or something, claiming it was an idea that was rejected, and I'm wondering what's that about or what it has to do with the editor (seeing as how the editor uses theme UI + GUI1).
20141016 00:35:22< fabi> I requested a gui2 widget to replace the improper menu that now is used for palette group choosing.
20141016 00:35:47< fabi> The single click usage I requested to keep things fast was rejected.
20141016 00:36:05< fabi> And then the widget never got finished anyway.
20141016 00:36:32< shadowm> GUI2 widgets in general are currently bound by design to GUI2 dialog instances, I believe.
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20141016 00:37:04< shadowm> Unlike GUI1 widgets, which can be plastered on top of any custom event loop.
20141016 00:37:45< fabi> yes
20141016 00:37:50< fabi> something about modal dialogs 
20141016 00:38:16< iceiceice> fabi : i dont think a 1 click menu widget would really help things that much
20141016 00:38:24< iceiceice> it would still take a long time if you have to scroll through the menu
20141016 00:38:42< iceiceice> there just needs to be a pallete group "cache"
20141016 00:38:46< iceiceice> just liek 2 rows or something
20141016 00:38:56< iceiceice> where the most recent / whatever pallets the user wants are there
20141016 00:39:09< iceiceice> so they dont have to use the menu every time
20141016 00:39:44< shadowm> Somewhat related is the fact that IIRC I suggested implementing a combobox with an automated click_dismiss=yes GUI2 dialog menu as an implementation detail.
20141016 00:40:09< shadowm> I was told no because click_dismiss=yes dialogs cannot pass events to their widgets and that wasn't likely to change any soon.
20141016 00:40:52< shadowm> Meanwhile GUI1 comboboxes have always used the same principle to work.
20141016 00:43:42< fabi> iceiceice, shadowm: Well, it is too late for 1.12.0. The current evil thing will be shipped. Let's focus on the release and do that design stuff later.
20141016 00:44:54< shadowm> iceiceice: The __GUI_LOBBY_SOUNDS_ENTRY def in mp_alerts_options.cfg is several indentation levels deeper than it should be.
20141016 00:45:16< iceiceice> does that stuff get wmlindented later?
20141016 00:45:36< shadowm> No.
20141016 00:46:10< fabi> shadowm: Beside the experimental scenario mode and the gui overhaul is there not much worth mentioning in a release note.
20141016 00:46:14< shadowm> As you might've noticed, data/gui/ uses a different indentation format (4-char sized tabstops) than mainline and wmlindent (4 space indent).
20141016 00:46:46< shadowm> The original author specifically asked to not allow wmlindent to touch it.
20141016 00:47:00< iceiceice> shoot
20141016 00:47:15< iceiceice> alright give me a minute
20141016 00:47:37< shadowm> It's not a big issue, I just wanted to remind you that #define contents are only 1 level deep by default.
20141016 00:47:59< shadowm> (Regardless of whether you are using tabstops or the mainline indentation unit.)
20141016 00:48:03< iceiceice> yeah, i did one or two rows without the macro to see how it looked, then i copied it up to define the macro
20141016 00:48:20< iceiceice> i tend to be sloppy with wml indentation since i expect it will get corrected later
20141016 00:48:40< shadowm> And I was wrong about there being a minor cosmetic issue with the dialog itself. It's actually a consistently widespread issue I haven't decided how to address first.
20141016 00:48:47< shadowm> s/first/yet/
20141016 00:48:51< iceiceice> ok
20141016 00:50:16< fabi> shadowm: Is it a lot work to introduce your method for opening url or pathes in the OS specific browser into the help browser's markup language?
20141016 00:50:33< fabi> Or is there already something like this?
20141016 00:51:26< fabi> mattsc: Let me check the UI fix now.
20141016 00:51:36< shadowm> I don't know how the help browser works, but it's probably easy enough. My only concern is that I haven't added a confirmation prompt yet.
20141016 00:52:11< shadowm> "Are you sure you want to visit this site? It could be an attempt to give your machine the flu!"
20141016 00:52:55< shadowm> (Note: I will be working on the confirmation prompt, but I won't be working on the help browser because it's icky badly-structured GUI1 stuff.)
20141016 00:52:58< fabi> The help browser is not customizable right now.
20141016 00:53:17< iceiceice> what do you mean?
20141016 00:53:17< fabi> So the flew thing is only an issue with total conversions/ new cores.
20141016 00:53:30< iceiceice> oh
20141016 00:53:40< fabi> addons can't add to the help system much.
20141016 00:53:57< fabi> or did that change?
20141016 00:54:05< iceiceice> yeah... i think its an open feature request
20141016 00:54:15< shadowm> I don't think it's changed, no.
20141016 00:54:40< iceiceice> its a bit hard for them anyways though
20141016 00:54:45< shadowm> It's yet another of those "why hasn’t anyone implemented this yet???" issues like being able to see the installation status of each add-on, etc.
20141016 00:55:11< iceiceice> the help data is structured in a somewhat bizarre way,
20141016 00:55:24< iceiceice> there are topics and also topic pages
20141016 00:55:26< shadowm> Or being able to upgrade Wesnoth on OS X or Windows without redownloading the full 0.75 GiB of crap.
20141016 00:55:27< iceiceice> if i remember correctly
20141016 00:55:43< iceiceice> and every topic has to have both or it's broken
20141016 00:55:45< shadowm> Oh, it's still only 0.3 GiB.
20141016 00:57:11< iceiceice> there was more stuff thats broken also i remember reading recently,
20141016 00:57:19< iceiceice> apparently we used to be able to put help links on theme items
20141016 00:57:32< iceiceice> but since everything got converted to pango that all got broken apparently
20141016 00:57:32< shadowm> The help system is built on a very stilted design, yes.
20141016 00:57:46< shadowm> Yeah, that happened too.
20141016 00:58:17< shadowm> They obviously didn't work because you can't click on a tooltip, but at least they were there and didn't break anything, and they'd work properly if you checked the unit's description in the help browser.
20141016 00:59:46< fabi> Please join the mp server and observe my game.
20141016 00:59:53< fabi> I need that icon being displayed.
20141016 01:01:08< iceiceice> one sec
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20141016 01:01:24< fabi> hmmm, I can't see it.
20141016 01:01:55< shadowm> iceiceice: Are you there yet?
20141016 01:02:10< iceiceice> i'm recompiling first :p
20141016 01:02:20< iceiceice> its taking longer than i thought
20141016 01:03:09< shadowm> fabi: I resized tthe window to 1123x566 and the ToD schedule progress indicator (the <current number>/<schedule length> thing) moved to appear between the gold and village counters on the top bar.
20141016 01:03:42< shadowm> Or actually, it's stuck at a fixed distance from the top left corner of the screen.
20141016 01:04:42< shadowm> Affects 1.12 too.
20141016 01:05:07< fabi> oh no
20141016 01:06:16< shadowm> zookeeper: Commit 41466dc175dc60f405137b20ef19086b324f7d65 is a prime example of how not to commit btw.
20141016 01:06:54< shadowm> If a commit needs to be backported, it needs to be backported whole and alone so it can be easily identified in logs without having to read the entirety of every single commit.
20141016 01:11:10< irker853> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master 302d53fca81b / data/core/editor/help.cfg: A rough framework for an editor help section. http://git.io/sKFz3g
20141016 01:11:12< irker853> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master 58c78b4b4aee / data/core/help.cfg: Enable the early stage editor help section. http://git.io/VIXcBw
20141016 01:11:14< irker853> wesnoth: fendrin wesnoth:master da93b365716c / src/editor/controller/editor_controller.cpp: Jump right to the editor overview help topic in the editor. http://git.io/Qmg3fw
20141016 01:15:25< fabi> shadowm: I can't reproduce the misplaced tod gui element. 
20141016 01:16:12< shadowm> Did you resize to a vertical size under 768 px?
20141016 01:16:40< fabi> oh
20141016 01:16:41< fabi> I see.
20141016 01:16:42< shadowm> And then mess with the horizontal size to more easily notice the naked ToD counter floating over the top bar?
20141016 01:16:48< fabi> Everything is horrible broken.
20141016 01:17:43< shadowm> Has anyone filed a bug for the map option buttons getting blanked out when resizing the window? It may be related to a bug I fixed some time ago.
20141016 01:18:44 * shadowm ← Too lazy to search using savane's awful interface.
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20141016 01:25:16< shadowm> Looks like to extend the Pango markup with more <elements> we'd need to reimplement most of the parser logic, which doesn't sound enticing at all.
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20141016 01:25:39< vultraz> shadowm: 'the/their' was a typo.
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20141016 01:25:50< shadowm> That's looking at emails from 2006 and 2009.
20141016 01:25:56< vultraz> shadowm: yes, i removed the hoykey hint since it was overly verbose
20141016 01:26:42< shadowm> s/removed/replaced with incorrect info/
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20141016 01:27:45< vultraz> (also, it was never clear)
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20141016 01:32:42< vultraz> I don't know why I said "folder on disk"
20141016 01:32:48< vultraz> Thanks for removing it
20141016 01:38:14< fabi> shadowm: Please mention in the "Campaigns" section that you can now switch the difficult level during an ongoing campaign.
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20141016 01:44:53< travis-ci> wesnoth/wesnoth#4235 (master - da93b36 : fendrin): The build passed.
20141016 01:44:53< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/wesnoth/wesnoth/builds/38110212
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20141016 02:01:46< mattsc> fabi: okay, thanks
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20141016 02:34:22< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 3cbca7c48d17 / start/1.12/template.html: Added more info the the wmltolls gui section http://git.io/rfjprg
20141016 02:34:34< vultraz> shadowm ^
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20141016 04:00:39< shadowm> fabi: Any other SP improvements you can think of?
20141016 04:01:26< shadowm> Otherwise, it feels wrong to dedicate a new paragraph to such a tiny thing, so I may use one of the other sections instead.
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20141016 04:07:59< fabi> shadowm: I think it fits perfectly into the "Campaigns" section.
20141016 04:08:12< shadowm> Where?
20141016 04:08:39< fabi> Right at top
20141016 04:08:43< shadowm> Paragraph 1: portraits. #2: journey maps. #3: campaign-specific improvements.
20141016 04:08:55< fabi> 0: 
20141016 04:08:59< shadowm> Well, it still feels wrong to dedicate a whole paragraph to this.
20141016 04:10:01< shadowm> Both from a visual and content standpoint -- I'd be forced to write fluff to address the first, which would exarcebate the second.
20141016 04:10:22< shadowm> *exacerbate
20141016 04:11:01< shadowm> And there's nothing I hate in writing more than padding fuff.
20141016 04:11:08< shadowm> *fluff 
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20141016 04:11:17< iceiceice> agreed, life is too short
20141016 04:11:55< shadowm> In fact, right now I hate most of the stuff I wrote for this announcement.
20141016 04:12:22< shadowm> It doesn't follow a coherent structure or rht.
20141016 04:12:27< shadowm> rythm.
20141016 04:12:46< shadowm> rhythm.
20141016 04:14:00< shadowm> But I'm also afraid of letting the whole endeavor fall victim to bikeshedding.
20141016 04:14:25< fabi> It looks like you are seriously in trouble.
20141016 04:14:31< shadowm> And that's while we are still missing content.
20141016 04:14:40< shadowm> ... am I now?
20141016 04:14:53< fabi> no
20141016 04:14:59< fabi> I am  just kidding.
20141016 04:15:30< fabi> Although some short prerelease panic wouldn't hurt either.
20141016 04:16:47< shadowm> I don't see how it would help anything. People under stress tend to perform poorly.
20141016 04:18:12< shadowm> The only reason wesnoth.org didn't burst into flames during the last "big thing" is that I prepared an extensive to-do list to guide me through every step, and even then I wound up doing some tasks out of order.
20141016 04:18:22< iceiceice> hey, i think i just made clickable chat hyperlinks :)
20141016 04:18:23< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/300
20141016 04:18:55< fabi> oh
20141016 04:19:16< fabi> hyperlinks in chat messages?
20141016 04:19:30< iceiceice> yeah
20141016 04:19:46< shadowm> "The left click handler asks the underlying font::ttext to derefering the click location to a string index, using pango."
20141016 04:19:54< shadowm> That is a thing that can be done?
20141016 04:20:03< iceiceice> i added a method to font::ttext
20141016 04:20:07< iceiceice> that does that 
20141016 04:20:24< fabi> iceiceice: It would really be cool when you could add support for refering hex fields in the chat.
20141016 04:20:44< fabi> iceiceice: Currently the chater needs to write some coordinates manually.
20141016 04:20:47< shadowm> I guess Pango might provide that function precisely for this kind of thing.
20141016 04:21:52< iceiceice> fabi: it doesn't work directly in the chat right now actually,
20141016 04:21:55< iceiceice> its only for the chat history
20141016 04:22:02< iceiceice> because the chat history is gui2
20141016 04:22:13< iceiceice> if the chat lines in game were gui2 labels then it would work i think
20141016 04:22:33< shadowm> iceiceice: Use prefix increment and postfix operators unless you need to take the previous value.
20141016 04:22:59< shadowm> src/text.cpp:294 and :299 in the squashed diff.
20141016 04:24:32< shadowm> Some of the lines you changed or added in src/gui use formatting that may later be changed by mordante, btw.
20141016 04:24:56< shadowm> For example if ( foo ) would become if(foo) next time he runs that tool.
20141016 04:24:57< iceiceice> ok
20141016 04:26:13< shadowm> Re src/gui/widgets/label.cpp:130, my intention was to add a new dialog explaining the risks and including an option to not bother the player about it again.
20141016 04:26:32< iceiceice> ok, if you do that, i will remove that line
20141016 04:26:36< shadowm> (With the option to maybe reenable the check in Advanced Preferences.)
20141016 04:26:51< shadowm> Well, it won't happen tonight. :p
20141016 04:27:03< shadowm> It probably won't happen until the announcement is complete and string-frozen, really.
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20141016 04:27:50< shadowm> I'll try to remember to do it later, though.
20141016 04:28:33< iceiceice> yeah
20141016 04:28:38< shadowm> Is this label feature on by default or must the widget instance be configured to enable it?
20141016 04:28:48< iceiceice> no its on all labels now :p
20141016 04:28:53< iceiceice> that probably should be changed i guess
20141016 04:29:04< iceiceice> but it probably also wont affect anything except chat-related labels right nwo
20141016 04:29:13< shadowm> Add-on descriptions.
20141016 04:29:22< iceiceice> hmm
20141016 04:29:26< iceiceice> are they labels or text_box's though?
20141016 04:29:36< iceiceice> i guess they are probably labels
20141016 04:29:46< shadowm> labels on the Campaign menu, scroll_labels on the Add-ons Manager.
20141016 04:29:55< iceiceice> yeah... ok
20141016 04:30:05< shadowm> IIRC scroll_label is implemented as a wrapper around a scrollable pane containing a label.
20141016 04:30:13< iceiceice> yeah that was why i targetted label
20141016 04:30:29< shadowm> Also, it'd be nice if there was an automatic indication that the link is clickable (underline, color).
20141016 04:30:37< iceiceice> yeah... i thought about how to do that
20141016 04:30:38< shadowm> *visual indication
20141016 04:31:01< iceiceice> so the thing is
20141016 04:31:26< iceiceice> i thought i would be able to ask pango things like, "give me the index in the text with all the formatting"
20141016 04:31:39< iceiceice> but i think it will only actually give me links to the post-formatting text
20141016 04:31:47< iceiceice> so after all <span> etc. tags have been collapse
20141016 04:31:49< iceiceice> collapsed
20141016 04:32:18< iceiceice> so its not very easy to define a new tag like "<link>" or <a href=" or whatever
20141016 04:32:32< shadowm> IF links_are_enabled AND this_text_looks_like_a_link THEN this_text.wrap_with("<span underline='single' color='GUI2_LINK_COLOR'>", "</span>") END
20141016 04:32:47< iceiceice> yeah that would work
20141016 04:32:51< shadowm> During the widget's method that sets/renders its contents.
20141016 04:33:44< shadowm> As for where this hypothetical GUI2_LINK_COLOR thing would be configured, well, GUI2 actually has a node with shared widget settings on data/gui/default.cfg.
20141016 04:34:22< shadowm> Though I'm sure mordante would say that the GUI2_LINK_COLOR attribute should be a widget-specific thing.
20141016 04:34:47< shadowm> (I'm also sure he'd nitpick your PR much more than me.)
20141016 04:35:00< shadowm> iceiceice: But yeah, good job!
20141016 04:35:03< iceiceice> probably, theres a lot of noise in there :)
20141016 04:35:21< fabi> shadowm: Mordante is not much around lately?
20141016 04:35:28< shadowm> No.
20141016 04:35:46< shadowm> Since August 19.
20141016 04:36:32< fabi> Let's hope he is well.
20141016 04:37:07< fabi> I don't remember a release without him.
20141016 04:37:17< fabi> stable release
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20141016 04:57:23< shadowm> Hm, IIRC the leader and hero ellipses were unused in mainline before 1.12.
20141016 04:59:56< fabi> indeed
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20141016 05:11:11< shadowm> vultraz: You. Any SP-oriented features I'm missing besides the Change Difficulty option?
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20141016 05:28:35< shadowm> vultraz: I just noticed that the 1.4 announcement used a different format for listing features: http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.4/
20141016 05:29:42< shadowm> I don't think it's superior, but perhaps we could at least format some key phrases in bold?
20141016 05:34:06< ancestral> What a handsome devil: http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.4/images/start-3.jpg
20141016 05:34:25< fabi> rofl
20141016 05:35:23< fabi> seven new mainline campaigns
20141016 05:36:16< shadowm> Vote me for president and I will bring every user-made campaign ever to mainline.
20141016 05:36:38< shadowm> Just imagine the headlines, "Wesnoth 2.0: the 500 campaigns release".
20141016 05:37:03< shadowm> (And 300 of them will be LotI clones, I'm sure.)
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20141016 05:39:32< ancestral> That’s it!
20141016 05:39:35< ancestral> Wesnoth 300: http://parodias.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/300-haut2-3805812tzntb_25871.jpg
20141016 05:40:18< ancestral> shadowm: No content here :( http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.2/
20141016 05:41:13< shadowm> *Oh*
20141016 05:41:26< shadowm> That's what that thing I dropped during the A->B migration was.
20141016 05:41:39< fabi> lol
20141016 05:43:21< shadowm> I suspect it's completely broken and might even be a security hole for all I know.
20141016 05:43:37< shadowm> I'm not exactly willing to audit a decade-old piece of software right now, so.
20141016 05:44:28< shadowm> Out it goes.
20141016 05:44:39< fabi> When you look at the 1.12 there http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/ the css seems not to be applied.
20141016 05:44:48< shadowm> F5?
20141016 05:44:50-!- [Relic] [~relic@99-58-54-211.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20141016 05:45:07< shadowm> Oh.
20141016 05:45:15< shadowm> fabi: Yeah, don't look at it, look at template.html under that dir.
20141016 05:46:41< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master e11d74f1538d / start/1.12/ (54 files in 2 dirs): Regenerate catalogues and HTML files http://git.io/0iauIw
20141016 05:47:07< shadowm> Now you can look at it anyway.
20141016 05:51:06< iceiceice> hi Coffee_irc:
20141016 05:51:11< iceiceice> if you have time can you take a look at this PR? https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/298
20141016 05:51:16< fabi> It is nice.
20141016 05:52:15< ancestral> shadowm: That suave 1.4 portrait image makes me want to see a portrait image in the 1.12 release notes
20141016 05:52:23< ancestral> But, maybe there aren’t any new portraits lately?
20141016 05:52:40< shadowm> There are, see paragraph 1 of the Campaigns section.
20141016 05:52:42< ancestral> Also, no pictures of Khalifate?
20141016 05:53:01< ancestral> Wait
20141016 05:53:03< ancestral> No there is one
20141016 05:53:07< shadowm> I get asked this quite a lot, really. I'm avoiding portraits because 1) the scaling factor selection algorithm sucks, and 2) the scaling algorithm sucks too.
20141016 05:53:13< ancestral> Excellent
20141016 05:53:16< shadowm> i.e. worse than in previous versions.
20141016 05:53:55< ancestral> TODO! TODO!
20141016 05:54:44< shadowm> It's bug #17961: <https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?17961>
20141016 05:55:49< ancestral> shadowm: I love how even though you went to great lengths to put the actual url
20141016 05:55:58< ancestral> (thank you kind sir)
20141016 05:56:14< ancestral> I STILL clicked the link to the #17961 chan
20141016 05:56:50< shadowm> I was half-expecting that, hence I included the number with the hash.
20141016 05:57:02< ancestral> ;-)
20141016 05:57:08< ancestral> That’s an old bug, eh?
20141016 05:57:15< ancestral> I mean, sure, there are older ones
20141016 05:58:19< shadowm> Oldest open bug: https://gna.org/bugs/?11024
20141016 05:58:32< fabi> Oh please. Just use a higher resolution on which nothing gets scaled.
20141016 05:58:35< shadowm> It kind of needs to die, because it involves a map format that went away with 1.4.
20141016 05:59:44< shadowm> Second oldest open bug: https://gna.org/bugs/?11224
20141016 05:59:51< ancestral> No way
20141016 05:59:58< shadowm> Oldest open FR: https://gna.org/bugs/?3379
20141016 06:00:31< ancestral> Ah sure
20141016 06:01:01< shadowm> Oldest closed FR I've handled: https://gna.org/bugs/?3730
20141016 06:03:46< iceiceice> this is probably the oldest bug / FR i've handled: https://gna.org/bugs/?3856
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20141016 06:12:24< shadowm> fabi: "Like the main game interface, the included map editor was also given a major overhaul, bringing with it increased visibility for the most frequently-used file and selection tools, and more easily identifiable action icons. This version also marks the debut of the experimental scenario mode, which enables additional features previously available only to WML coders. Note that there are still many aspects remaining to be finalized ...
20141016 06:12:30< shadowm> ... and polished before it can be considered a substitute for the targeted subset of WML."
20141016 06:15:29< ancestral> Aww man, two delfadors? https://gna.org/bugs/index.php?3129 #cametowesnothlate
20141016 06:16:12< shadowm> Not too long ago I stumbled upon a bug wherein Delfador clobbered one of my units out of existence in Bay of Pearls.
20141016 06:16:20< shadowm> The victim was L2 or L3.
20141016 06:17:20< vultraz> shadowm: hmmmmm
20141016 06:17:23< vultraz> you raise a good point
20141016 06:17:25< shadowm> Also, a certain API change post 1.11.10 caused a bug in my campaign wherein the protagonist would be triplicated.
20141016 06:17:51< fabi> what change?
20141016 06:18:06< shadowm> Something involving the defeat condition check being made more strict.
20141016 06:18:38< ancestral> Trouble with tribbles. I mean, triples.
20141016 06:18:41< shadowm> Killing all on-map units in an event causing the side to be considered defeated and its recall list discarded.
20141016 06:18:50< shadowm> Even if there was a leader in it.
20141016 06:19:16< fabi> oh
20141016 06:19:38< ancestral> Whoops: “bug #3351: can't press "I am ready" button”
20141016 06:19:56< shadowm> My code wasn't designed to account for such a thing happening, making it store clones of the heroine instead of the non-existent secondary characters.
20141016 06:20:13< shadowm> Then the clones were used in their stead when starting the next episode.
20141016 06:20:48< ancestral> Was there a multiplayer server at devsrv.wesnoth.org at one time?
20141016 06:20:59< shadowm> I'm sure I'd have had a good laugh if I had been in a better mood at the time.
20141016 06:21:45< shadowm> vultraz: What point? The bold highlighting?
20141016 06:21:52< vultraz> shadowm: yes
20141016 06:21:56< fabi> shadowm: The editor text is okay.
20141016 06:22:03< fabi> Thank you.
20141016 06:22:10< shadowm> vultraz: Any opinions on the editor blurb I wrote above?
20141016 06:22:54< vultraz> hmmmmmmmmmmmm
20141016 06:23:24< fabi> During writing the editor help section I begin to realize how complicated and error-prone  all that side setup stuff is.
20141016 06:23:30< vultraz> drop "included"
20141016 06:24:13< vultraz> besides that it looks ok
20141016 06:27:16< vultraz> something's bothering me about the "increased visibility for the most" part
20141016 06:27:24< vultraz> but I can't put my finger on it...
20141016 06:28:16< ancestral> This high priority bug is ready to test! https://gna.org/bugs/?3778
20141016 06:28:25< ancestral> Oh wait it’s closed now
20141016 06:28:39< ancestral> Nevvvvvver mind
20141016 06:29:04< shadowm> vultraz: Well, "the most frequently-used" there is superfluous, because they had no visibility before, period.
20141016 06:29:14< fabi> that releases seems to make people go crazy
20141016 06:30:12< vultraz> however...
20141016 06:30:15< vultraz> er
20141016 06:30:17< vultraz> how about...*
20141016 06:30:52< vultraz> shadowm: "...bringing with it increased visibility for commonly used ..."
20141016 06:31:18< shadowm> See above.
20141016 06:31:31< vultraz> I saw above
20141016 06:31:48< shadowm> Meh.
20141016 06:32:33< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 616a0d7ef7ba / start/1.12/template.html: Add editor text http://git.io/YuTM_w
20141016 06:33:24< shadowm> "The [WML/Lua] API has received several changes which content creators porting 1.10-based add-ons must adapt to [...]" Er...
20141016 06:33:45< shadowm> I'm sure I originally put something there about new features too.
20141016 06:40:38< shadowm> This section is also completely out of order
20141016 06:40:40< shadowm> GRRRR.
20141016 06:41:28< vultraz> BTW, how come I don't get my wesnoth/website commits in my channel
20141016 06:42:00< shadowm> Who knows.
20141016 06:42:08< iceiceice> did you subscribe to it?
20141016 06:42:19< shadowm> This stuff has to be configured server-side by AI0867.
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20141016 06:53:15< ancestral> shadowm: Still supported by Jexiste?
20141016 06:53:23< shadowm> Yes.
20141016 06:54:14< ancestral> Did something change between 2010 and now?
20141016 06:54:19< ancestral> (with regards to that)
20141016 06:54:27< shadowm> No.
20141016 06:54:41< shadowm> Is there a specific reason you are asking?
20141016 06:55:17< ancestral> I remember someone saying they no longer supported the site
20141016 06:55:24< ancestral> Do they provide the DNS?
20141016 06:55:30< shadowm> Yes.
20141016 06:55:39< ancestral> So in that way alone they support Wesnoth?
20141016 06:55:44< shadowm> Yes.
20141016 06:55:48-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141016 06:58:18< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 40c9f4d850b7 / start/1.12/template.html: Stuff for the content creators section http://git.io/lijsXA
20141016 07:10:55< ancestral> shadowm: From what you know, how does github feel about people hotlinking to images or files on github.com/github.io?
20141016 07:11:40-!- mjs-de [~mjs-de@f048231149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20141016 07:11:51< shadowm> I don't know.
20141016 07:12:03< shadowm> I mean, I've never even done that.
20141016 07:13:13< ancestral> I know they’re open to people hosting sites in repos
20141016 07:28:00< vultraz> shadowm: re your inquiry about SP features, i cannot think of any
20141016 07:28:34-!- Necrosporus [~Necrospor@unaffiliated/necrosporus] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141016 07:29:16< ancestral> Hmm: https://medium.com/@yaypie/the-naughtiness-score-9a61872c61cd
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20141016 07:31:41< irker853> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master c736c2d23757 / start/1.12/template.html: Purge some TODO notes from the MP section http://git.io/x-4HUw
20141016 07:33:34-!- zookeeper [zookeeper@wesnoth/developer/zookeeper] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141016 07:34:50< shadowm> No, the section still sucks.
20141016 07:35:03< shadowm> The whole page still sucks and I'm still working on it.
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20141016 07:40:15< zookeeper> shadowm, yeah, i bet it should.
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20141016 08:57:38< shadowm> fabi, zookeeper, Ivanovic, vultraz, whoever else: Okay, so let's choose between 1280x768, 1280x800, and 1366x768. My vote goes for 1280x768.
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20141016 09:01:14< shadowm> Hm, even better, let's all vote here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41090
20141016 09:02:19< shadowm> That way I won't be able to resent anyone if somehow we wind up choosing "Other: 8192x4608".
20141016 09:02:28-!- bumbadadabum [~bumbadada@wcw-stud-145-109-8-184.wireless.uva.nl] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20141016 09:02:32< shadowm> *anyone in particular
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20141016 09:14:02< shadowm> "Many scenarios of <cite>Under the Burning Suns</cite> have seen significant improvements, with some having been completely redesigned from the ground up."
20141016 09:14:06< shadowm> When did this happen?
20141016 09:14:24< shadowm> UtBS scenarios being redesigned in 1.11.x, that is?
20141016 09:18:23< zookeeper> just some WML rewrites IIRC
20141016 09:18:39< zookeeper> (assuming it was really in 1.11 and not earlier)
20141016 09:19:14< shadowm> This was in the players section.
20141016 09:20:13< shadowm> Since they aren't really going to take a peek under the hood (well, most of them), I guess I'll tweak the sentence in a way that suggests bug fixes.
20141016 09:20:36< shadowm> Also, uh, the 1.0 announcement looks a bit underwhelming to me: http://web.archive.org/web/20080302200444/http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.0/en/
20141016 09:20:56< shadowm> 1.2: http://web.archive.org/web/20080302133410/http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.2/
20141016 09:21:42< shadowm> But 1.0 being 1.0, I expected something more, uh... impressive.
20141016 09:22:09< shadowm> "Internet. October 2, 2005." *rolls eyes*
20141016 09:23:06< shadowm> Most notably, it had a single screenshot.
20141016 09:24:09< shadowm> Though I guess it might be related to being hosted with significantly less resources than nowadays.
20141016 09:24:38< shadowm> I remember that even by the time I started submitting patches the forums had to rely on external attachment hosting.
20141016 09:24:53< shadowm> They also crashed a lot and very catastrophically.
20141016 09:25:46 * shadowm also remembers how the Spanish translation used to not suck.
20141016 09:26:09< shadowm> Sily Spanish speakers who only like to play games and not translate anything.
20141016 09:26:36< shadowm> And generally behave embarassingly in the lobby from what I've seen.
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20141016 09:34:13< zookeeper> so why did you pick only weird resolutions as options?
20141016 09:35:22-!- kex [~kex@77.28.9.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20141016 09:35:45< shadowm> Because those are standard resolutions that aren't 1024x768 or 1920x1080?
20141016 09:36:17< shadowm> (And aren't unmanageably large file size-wise.)
20141016 09:38:25< zookeeper> uh, okay. common on laptops i guess?
20141016 09:38:40< shadowm> Laptops, yes.
20141016 09:41:52< zookeeper> frankly i'd rather have went one step above, so 1600x900 or 1440x900 or something, but...
20141016 09:42:01 * zookeeper can't decide between 1280x800 and 1366x768
20141016 09:43:41< zookeeper> huh, 1440x900 isn't available
20141016 09:44:34< zookeeper> hmh, the res menu shows 1920x1200 and 1600x900 etc as "8:5" whereas they should be 16:10
20141016 09:45:19< shadowm> Someone went overboard with the maths and forgot that the TV and monitors industry doesn't know how to simplify fractions.
20141016 09:45:57< zookeeper> well it's good that it's called 16:10 for easy comparison with 16:9
20141016 09:47:09< shadowm> I knew the answer to that mystery involved marketers somehow.
20141016 09:50:31< zookeeper> so i take it that you prefer a widescreen res because that's the norm now?
20141016 09:50:46< shadowm> Yes.
20141016 09:51:06< shadowm> Though I did provide a "other (specify)" option on purpose.
20141016 09:53:57 * shadowm is so going to regret volunteering for the Spanish translation of the announcement and wesnoth and wesnoth-lib textdomains.
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20141016 10:03:03< shadowm> thunderstruck: About MP campaigns in the announcement, you say: "it is now possible to go to the lobby in between campaign scenarios and perform side configurations." Just to clarify, do you mean the lobby with the full list of games, the initial pages of the game setup screen with only the list of people on the lobby and chat access, or the last page where you can only chat with people who've joined your game?
20141016 10:05:08< shadowm> fabi: Related to this same section, right now it says LoW is available for MP. IIRC you had to disable a specific problematic chapter, though?
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20141016 10:11:04< shadowm> "Customizable Hotkeys were introduced". Uh.
20141016 10:11:43< shadowm> vultraz, hotkey customization has always been a thing since 1.0, it just got greatly improved, not introduced.
20141016 10:12:08< shadowm> Don't bother fixing it because it'll conflict with my rewrite.
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20141016 10:29:52< irker853> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 1d6918b95adc / start/1.12/template.html: Rewrite content again http://git.io/h_gN0w
20141016 10:30:21< shadowm> Next step: figuring out what to <b>.
20141016 10:30:35< shadowm> *If* we are going to do that, that is.
20141016 10:41:49< shadowm> vultraz: Oh, and here's a stylesheet tweak you'll probably hate: http://shadowm.ai0867.net/westin-test/template.html
20141016 10:41:53< shadowm> (Refresh.)
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20141016 13:01:20< vultraz> shadowm: I like it
20141016 13:01:27< vultraz> but...why open sans
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20141016 13:30:06< mattsc> shadowm, zookeeper:  check out the section on UtBS here:  http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37468
20141016 13:31:10< mattsc> I guess one could argue that those do not count as “significant improvements” on the scale of a new stable release.
20141016 13:39:06< mattsc> fabi: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41074&p=576742#p576742
20141016 13:48:41< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah, nothing that would even remotely qualify as "redesigned" or such, IMO
20141016 13:48:55< vultraz> shadowm: reviewed the text changed. they
20141016 13:48:57< vultraz> re good
20141016 13:49:20< zookeeper> ...especially when other, actual redesigns (the EI ones) aren't mentioned :p
20141016 13:49:47< zookeeper> i felt that even those don't need to be mentioned there since it's just 2 scenarios, although i guess they're one of biggest changes to a campaign this cycle
20141016 13:50:37< vultraz> We need to put something in that section
20141016 13:50:43< vultraz> it's painfully sparse
20141016 13:51:31< vultraz> I notice shadowm hasn't added the section on difficulty changes yet
20141016 13:53:39< mattsc> zookeeper: I think I messed that up when I took a shot a shadowm’s first draft  :P
20141016 13:54:21< mattsc> You’re right, the EI changes are bigger and could be mentioned (not sure about should)
20141016 13:55:07< zookeeper> well i guess they should, there's not that much other campaign-related things there
20141016 13:57:38< mattsc> zookeeper: yeah, true.  Sorry for that, my bad...
20141016 14:01:15< zookeeper> err, for what
20141016 14:02:12< mattsc> Because iirc, shadowm had the EI changes in his draft, and because I was rushing through things at the time, I think I deleted them  (and I don’t even remember if it was inadvertently or not)
20141016 14:02:28< zookeeper> oh
20141016 14:02:41< mattsc> so: my bad!  :(
20141016 14:02:52< zookeeper> bad mattsc bad
20141016 14:03:08< mattsc> yes, I should be banned from mainline until 1.12.1 !
20141016 14:03:26< zookeeper> let's make that 1.14.0
20141016 14:03:39< mattsc> :)
20141016 14:04:06< zookeeper> anyway, i'll probably take a look at that before the big release so i can add the mention back then if no one else has
20141016 14:05:23< mattsc> zookeeper: thanks
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20141016 14:35:18< vultraz> shadowm: also, if you insist on using open sans, drop the font size alightly
20141016 14:35:22< vultraz> two points, maybe
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20141016 15:37:48< vultraz> shadowm: Maven Pro looks nice
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20141016 15:47:35< thunderstruck> shadowm: I meant the MP Connect/Wait screens. For host, this is the window where it's possible to change side configurations such as AI/human, teams, colors etc. This window is always shown after "Configure window".
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20141016 16:30:48< iceiceice> vultraz: all the cool kids use Helvetica :p
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20141016 17:57:56< Elvish_Hunter> Hi all
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20141016 18:13:00< irker334> wesnoth: Elvish_Hunter wesnoth:master 5a0109fb9a1d / changelog src/unit_display.cpp: [animate_unit]: fixed a bug that prevented displaying the Wose's death animation http://git.io/B_stsw
20141016 18:29:50< irker334> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 a07274d849fa / data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: Fixed players not winning if last enemy is side 2 http://git.io/sIMxyQ
20141016 18:32:02< irker334> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master d09ce1ca8782 / data/multiplayer/scenarios/2p_Dark_Forecast.cfg: Fixed players not winning if last enemy is side 2 http://git.io/EtnBrA
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20141016 19:05:33< mattsc> Is there a way these days (in 1.12) to have an event fire when a unit moves _through_ a certain hex (as opposed to stopping or starting on it)?
20141016 19:09:53< mattsc> Argh, there it is …  ‘enter_hex’ event  (I always find it right after asking the question, even after poking around on the correct page forever beforehand)
20141016 19:10:06< Ravana_> was just going to say this^^
20141016 19:10:40< mattsc> Ravana_: thanks - I knew I had seen it before, I just couldn’t find it any more …
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20141016 20:14:35< irker334> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:1.12 1a4cd8dd4bd3 / changelog data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_lurkers.lua: Lurkers Micro AI: fix bug in wander terrain selection http://git.io/8ZAN8Q
20141016 20:16:39< irker334> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master b2581bcb7c13 / changelog data/ai/micro_ais/cas/ca_lurkers.lua: Lurkers Micro AI: fix bug in wander terrain selection http://git.io/Ub_1Pg
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20141016 20:20:42< iceiceice> how do i add new entreis to the schema validator?
20141016 20:21:18< iceiceice> i think i figured it out, never mind
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20141016 21:24:42< shadowm> thunderstruck: Not the lobby then.
20141016 21:26:24< shadowm> vultraz: I already said it'd be bad to dedicate a whole paragraph to such a tiny thing, so I need more SP features to lump it with.
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20141016 21:26:36< fabi> hello
20141016 21:27:58< shadowm> vultraz: Maven Pro looks awful for large blocks of text.
20141016 21:28:14-!- gfgtdf_ [~chatzilla@f050179033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141016 21:28:24< shadowm> It reminds me of that stupid Ubuntu font.
20141016 21:29:46< shadowm> Also, that was an idea, and ultimately we have to use fonts that support the largest number of languages possible.
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20141016 21:29:54< shadowm> *just an experimental
20141016 21:32:54< vultraz> speaking of fonts, I was stupid to want to use Optima
20141016 21:34:05< vultraz> "Mac: 93%, Windows: 2%"
20141016 21:36:15< shadowm> Fun fact: phpBB's prosilver style uses Lucida Grande.
20141016 21:36:39 * vultraz blinks
20141016 21:36:41< shadowm> I've never seen what it looks like because I don't own a Mac, so I get to experience the Trebuchet MS fallback.
20141016 21:37:03< shadowm>   font-family: "Lucida Grande","Trebuchet MS",Verdana,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif
20141016 21:37:31< shadowm> AFAIK you haven't used a Mac in years either.
20141016 21:37:52< fabi> I don't get why the blue prosilver is the default. The special wesnoth theme integrates with the rest of the homepage much more nicely.
20141016 21:37:54< c74d> You’ve seen what it looks like in my screen-captures.
20141016 21:38:06< shadowm> No, I haven't even seen your screen captures.
20141016 21:38:36< shadowm> Here's the yearly reminder that I'm going to drop subsilver2 as soon as we upgrade to phpBB 3.1.x.
20141016 21:40:46< vultraz> So are we sticking with Open Sans?
20141016 21:41:04< shadowm> vultraz, that was an experiment.
20141016 21:41:56< shadowm> It means no.
20141016 21:43:02< vultraz> ah'righ
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20141016 22:13:57< shadowm> mattsc: Oddly, I don't see a single commit of yours to the website repo.
20141016 22:15:24< shadowm> Oh, we were originally working with pastebins.
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20141016 22:26:13< shadowm> 11:04:05 <zookeeper> anyway, i'll probably take a look at that before the big release so i can add the mention back then if no one else has
20141016 22:26:26< shadowm> zookeeper: The goal is to string-freeze the announcement before the release.
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20141016 22:26:54< shadowm> Otherwise we'd only hinder translation work.
20141016 22:27:59< shadowm> Ivanovic: I sent an email to Espreon by the way -- I'm going to work on the Spanish translation of the announcement as soon as we finish up the source version.
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20141016 22:32:43< zookeeper> shadowm, oh right
20141016 22:32:55< zookeeper> i guess i'll do it ASAP then (that is, maybe tomorrow)
20141016 22:32:58< shadowm> vultraz, fabi: <p>Although all campaigns in the menu are labeled according to their difficulty level, it is not uncommon for players to underestimate the challenge and face unsurmountable obstacles midway through. It is for this reason that we have added a new option to the Load Game dialog allowing you to switch difficulty at the very start of a scenario.</p>
20141016 22:33:11< shadowm> zookeeper: I simply replaced "Under the Burning Suns" with "Eastern Invasion" in my copy.
20141016 22:35:29< shadowm> shikadibot: seen happygrue
20141016 22:35:29< shikadibot> shadowm: The person with the nick happygrue last spoke 5d 2h ago.  2d 19h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20141016 22:35:41< shadowm> I guess it's up to me to write something on the Khalifate.
20141016 22:36:06< iceiceice> you could maybe ask noy, he's logged on periodically i think
20141016 22:37:26< shadowm> shikadibot: seen lipkab
20141016 22:37:26< shikadibot> shadowm: The person with the nick lipkab 11h 44m ago they left with the message: Remote host closed the connection
20141016 22:37:42< fabi> shadowm: Inspired by the fabulous success of their real life counterparts the Wesnoth project decided to adopt another fraction of nice fellows.
20141016 22:37:55< fabi> s/fraction/faction
20141016 22:38:16< shadowm> Ahahaha, no.
20141016 22:39:05< iceiceice> by the way, i think i got the hyperlink formatting working...
20141016 22:39:42< iceiceice> i think i didnt work it into the wml widget definitions correctly, someone will have to give me some guidance on that,
20141016 22:39:49< iceiceice> but its at least mostly working now as far as i know
20141016 22:39:58< zookeeper> shadowm, yeah that'll work, although "many scenarios" is a bit of an overstatement :P but it'll do
20141016 22:40:21< shadowm> zookeeper: AFAICT every scenario but Weldyn Besieged got a map make over.
20141016 22:40:52< zookeeper> yeah but map prettyification doesn't really count as "significant improvements" IMO
20141016 22:41:46< shadowm> I'd be hard pressed to keep playing a campaign where every map is 80% undecorated grass.
20141016 22:43:10< zookeeper> fair enough
20141016 22:43:39< zookeeper> loci's dialogue improvements and such were in 1.11.0 too i think, so i guess i'll agree to call it significant improvements
20141016 22:44:13< bumbadadabum> <shadowm> zookeeper: AFAICT every scenario but Weldyn Besieged got a map make over.
20141016 22:44:15< bumbadadabum> working on it
20141016 22:44:49< bumbadadabum> finally got wesnoth to compile
20141016 22:45:45< bumbadadabum> problem was it cached the wrong boost version
20141016 22:45:52< bumbadadabum> took me a few hours to figure that out
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20141016 23:05:15< shadowm> Right now we've got a tie between 1280x768 and 1366x768.
20141016 23:05:46< shadowm> I'm going to let the poll run for 24 more hours.
20141016 23:05:57< bumbadadabum> Ok so...
20141016 23:06:10< bumbadadabum> how liberal am I allowed to be with the map
20141016 23:06:12< bumbadadabum> since it's umm...
20141016 23:06:14< bumbadadabum> pretty bad
20141016 23:06:31< shadowm> HttT BfW scenario + 200 years or so is the reference.
20141016 23:06:53< bumbadadabum> yeah, but the balance of the map is a thing
20141016 23:07:02< bumbadadabum> or does it not matter as much since it's the last scenario?
20141016 23:07:21< fabi> shadowm: Where is the poll?
20141016 23:07:26< shadowm> !math 627-518
20141016 23:07:27< shikadibot> shadowm: 109
20141016 23:07:37< shadowm> 109 uears between HttT and EI.
20141016 23:07:59< shadowm> fabi: Our favorite hidden forum.
20141016 23:08:21< shadowm> Where we post our secret and evil plans to ruin Wesnoth forever.
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20141016 23:09:40< fabi> shadowm: I like to have a screenshot showing the editor in scenario mode with some text beside it.
20141016 23:11:11< shadowm> You would like that.
20141016 23:11:26 * shadowm ponders this.
20141016 23:11:29< fabi> I would?
20141016 23:11:56< shadowm> I don't know if you are asking me to make a screenshot for you or you intend to make it yourself.
20141016 23:12:01< fabi> Let me do the screenshot.
20141016 23:12:08< shadowm> Either way it may be more productive to wait until we have a final resolution for the resolution.
20141016 23:12:26< shadowm> That's also why I only included a placeholder comment for the titlescreen.
20141016 23:12:44< fabi> Let's wait till you close the poll.
20141016 23:12:50 * shadowm isn't particularly thrilled by the prospect of having to remake those mid-animation shots.
20141016 23:13:09< fabi> mid-animation?
20141016 23:13:43< shadowm> The shots accompanying the Campaigns and Multiplayer sections.
20141016 23:14:12< shadowm> I thought it'd be cool to do that since people in the past did it as well (someone has a particular fixation with Delfador's lightning bolt animation).
20141016 23:15:48< shadowm> fabi: I did have a screenshot of the editor already, but in map mode.
20141016 23:16:12< fabi> Yes I know.
20141016 23:16:31< shadowm> The goal was to show off both the editor interface changes and the revamped tropical forest terrains.
20141016 23:16:44< fabi> the screenshot is fine
20141016 23:17:06< shadowm> I suppose we can afford an additional screenshot since there's plenty of text to the right, but the cropping must be different.
20141016 23:17:55< fabi> 2 screenshots is better.
20141016 23:18:15< fabi> I want to write about the 2 different modes.
20141016 23:18:33< shadowm> Also, independently of all this we are going to have screenshots in the http://wiki.wesnoth.org/Screenshots page as usual.
20141016 23:18:43< fabi> And save formats. Not to much and not to complicated.
20141016 23:19:54< shadowm> ... Hm, okay. Just remember that the announcement is not a manual or technical whitepaper.
20141016 23:20:20< shadowm> Brevity is actually a must to keep people interested in reading.
20141016 23:20:35< fabi> Yes. I understand.
20141016 23:22:32< irker334> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 0c90b044bc17 / start/1.12/template.html: Add bit on SP difficulty switch option and replace UtBS with EI http://git.io/TaThvw
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20141016 23:39:06< fabi> hi mattsc
20141016 23:40:20< shadowm> "This series sees the introduction of a new playable faction in multiplayer games, the Khalifate. Available in games set-up to use the optional “Default + Khalifate” era, this faction of humans lacks magic users, and instead specializes in using terrain features and the time of day to their advantage, counting lawful and liminal units amongst their ranks, healers and high-accuracy melee fighters, and fearsome fire starters."
20141016 23:40:47< shadowm> Maybe I should leave out the last one.
20141016 23:41:47< fabi> shadowm: You forgot the best riding archers in the game. 
20141016 23:41:52< shadowm> It seems like a novel thing to me since the only other fire melee unit in mainline is the Goblin Pillager, but it also might be an invitation to stereotype them as pyromaniacs, I don't know.
20141016 23:42:28< shadowm> happygruuuueeeee...
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20141016 23:43:35< shadowm> "[...] healers and high-accuracy melee fighters, and fearsome horse-mounted archers."
20141016 23:44:42< iceiceice> i dont know how essential the naffat is to khalifate play
20141016 23:44:56< iceiceice> my impression is they are a bit weak / niche
20141016 23:45:00< shadowm> I found it's devastating against undead AI.
20141016 23:45:07< iceiceice> well thats not surprising :)
20141016 23:45:34< shadowm> I'd not fare very well against a human because I'm the MP master noob.
20141016 23:46:42< iceiceice> well from what i remember, the last balance change to khalifate since the khalifate tournament included something like naffat + 4 hp
20141016 23:47:52< shadowm> I speculate this faction is best played with careful usage of healers since they have L1 +8 healers, whereas the only other factions with L1 healers (Rebels and Drakes) only have +4.
20141016 23:48:28< shadowm> But I have no idea what I'm talking about so I'll stop embarrassing myself.
20141016 23:49:47< shadowm> (In fact, I wonder how that is not OP in practice.)
20141016 23:52:35 * shadowm loves how vultraz keeps ignoring his suggestion to use bold key phrases.
20141016 23:54:17< irker334> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 8e574a4c4785 / start/1.12/template.html: Add short blurb on the Khalifate, hopefully to be reviewed later http://git.io/zWvecA
20141016 23:58:00< shadowm> iceiceice: Any news on the move_unitf ix?
20141016 23:58:28< shadowm> I'd like to at least push a new version of my campaigns including it.
20141016 23:58:56< iceiceice> i forgot about that...
20141016 23:59:16< iceiceice> i think the right thing is to add a few unit tests so the same thing doesnt happen later
20141016 23:59:50< shadowm> It's been months and I still haven't looked into how to use the WML unit tests API.
--- Log closed Fri Oct 17 00:00:26 2014