--- Log opened Mon Oct 20 00:00:56 2014
20141020 00:04:01-!- happygrue [~Laptop@wesnoth/developer/wintermute] has joined #wesnoth-dev
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20141020 00:35:14< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i managed to cherry-pick the "move everything" commit
20141020 00:35:32< gfgtdf> iceiceice: and no cimple errors ?
20141020 00:35:36< gfgtdf> compile*
20141020 00:35:36< mattsc> shadowm: do you want me to say anything about the announcement in my update to the ML?  TBH, I think it would be better if that came in a separate email, but I can include it if you prefer.
20141020 00:35:54< iceiceice> i had conflicts in about 1/3 of files,
20141020 00:36:00< iceiceice> i think i resolved it all successfully now
20141020 00:39:39< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but there can still be other files that might call the filesystem.hpp functions but only on 1.12 so taht they arent in teh master commit.
20141020 00:39:55< iceiceice> hmm ok
20141020 00:39:58< iceiceice> it compiled successfully though
20141020 00:40:17< gfgtdf> iceiceice: then its fine
20141020 00:40:47< iceiceice> i'm trying to cherry-pick the rest of the AI commits in the "part 1" pr
20141020 00:41:42< mattsc> grrr, my IRC clients always rings a bell when somebody uses AI in a message
20141020 00:41:55< gfgtdf> haha
20141020 00:41:59< mattsc> but I have that set up for AI the intelligence, not AI the person  :D
20141020 00:42:04< gfgtdf> iceiceice: y that woudl be helpful
20141020 00:43:26< mattsc> shadowm: also, should I mention bug #20815, or do we try to keep that quiet?
20141020 00:43:46< shadowm> mattsc: The announcement will be ready tomorrow hopefully, so it's up to you to decide.
20141020 00:44:50< mattsc> shadowm: okay, I’d prefer a separate email then  (in order to keep mine short and to the point: “look at these bugs, speak up if you have problems with anything I am saying”)
20141020 00:45:31< shadowm> mattsc: There's not much point in mention #20815. Observers will just slam their heads into the "this item is private" error.
20141020 00:45:47< mattsc> ok
20141020 00:45:57< shadowm> mattsc: Oh, I guess you could mention that the announcement is almost ready and if there's anything missing content-wise, people have less than 48 hours to do something about it.
20141020 00:46:10< shadowm> *mentioning
20141020 00:46:23< mattsc> shadowm: sounds good, I’ll add that
20141020 00:46:27< shadowm> ... that correction is for my second-to-last full line.
20141020 00:47:01< mattsc> shadowm: I figured  :)
20141020 00:47:04< shadowm> I seriously can't think of any changes in 1.11.x that we didn't cover in the announcement in some way, but it's always good to make sure.
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20141020 00:47:20< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#284 (istream_fix - 49c1a8d : gfgtdf): The build was fixed.
20141020 00:47:20< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/38448236
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20141020 00:48:17< shadowm> mattsc: The correct link would be <http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/template.html>.
20141020 00:48:48< mattsc> shadowm: thanks - you just saved me the time of looking that up  :)
20141020 00:49:03< shadowm> mattsc: I really would like to have a course of action for #20815 ready for RC 2, but upstream hasn't responded and I don't know what to do.
20141020 00:49:19< shadowm> It's so frustrating.
20141020 00:50:01< mattsc> shadowm: yes … agreed … on all parts of that
20141020 00:50:04< iceiceice> shadowm: hopefully they come up with a really good fix :)
20141020 00:50:32< mattsc> iceiceice: and they better do so by Friday, or we won’t like them anymore !  ;)
20141020 00:50:38< shadowm> My fix is good enough, render correctness should be a secondary goal.
20141020 00:51:00< iceiceice> actualy i'm hoping they go way beyond your fix and do the deep analysis to eliminate any possibility of segfault
20141020 00:51:06< shadowm> The primary goal is supposed to be to not fuck up unrelated memory.
20141020 00:51:13< iceiceice> yeah agreed with you
20141020 00:51:25< mattsc> shadowm: in that case, let’s give them till Wednesday, and if you do not hear back from them by then, let’s use your fix
20141020 00:51:35< iceiceice> can we do that?
20141020 00:51:54< shadowm> mattsc: Yeah, the problem is that we can use my fix easily for Windows and OS X, but not for Linux and BSD.
20141020 00:51:58< iceiceice> i think we dont compile this lib into the game
20141020 00:52:01< mattsc> can’t we do that locally?
20141020 00:52:03< shadowm> Exactly.
20141020 00:52:04< mattsc> oh, right ...
20141020 00:52:10< mattsc> crap
20141020 00:52:26< mattsc> Anyways, I’m off to eat now, back in a little ...
20141020 00:52:52< shadowm> I could start sending emails to downstream SDL_ttf maintainers, but... why should I have to do that?!
20141020 00:53:13< shadowm> I'm not a SDL_ttf dev, I'm just a user.
20141020 00:53:36< shadowm> (The point remains the same if you substitute "we" wherever I said "I" above.)
20141020 00:54:30< shadowm> I mean, in any case we've got a problem because I'm 200% certain the SDL people won't release a new SDL 1.2.x-compatible version of SDL_ttf.
20141020 00:55:01< shadowm> Ultimately, bringing a patched SDL_ttf version into our tree is an option, has been done in the past, but ideally we shouldn't have to do that again.
20141020 00:55:54< shadowm> Really, I was only looking for upstream approval so that downstream distributors can be made aware of the issue, *and* I have a better patch to port to the SDL 1.2.x SDL_ttf.
20141020 00:56:16< shadowm> Or the same patch, depending on the outcome.
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20141020 01:00:51< iceiceice> its too bad we didnt figure out about this a year ago when it was originally reported, then maybe we'd actually have a patched SDL_ttf from upstream
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20141020 01:01:49< travis-ci> gfgtdf/wesnoth-old#285 (istream_fix - 8472f9a : gfgtdf): The build was fixed.
20141020 01:01:49< travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/gfgtdf/wesnoth-old/builds/38448600
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20141020 01:05:59< shadowm> One thing we could do is bundle SDL_ttf but offer a cmake/scons switch to use the system version if distributors so desire.
20141020 01:06:34< shadowm> And document differences from upstream in the bundled dir.
20141020 01:07:28< shadowm> Also, in a way, we set ourselves up for this by not having a SDL 2.x port ready by now.
20141020 01:07:50< iceiceice> is it possible to use SDL 2 fonts but not the sdl 2 graphics?
20141020 01:08:19< shadowm> I tried to build the latest SDL_ttf with SDL 1.2.x, but it needs a specific function that's not implemented.
20141020 01:09:07< shadowm> And we can't really ask distributors to do that anyway, might as well bundle SDL_ttf ourselves.
20141020 01:10:56< iceiceice> another thing we could do also, unless i'm mistaken, is change our font?
20141020 01:11:17< iceiceice> upstream seemed to indicate it was a perfect storm of SDL_ttf problems and pathological font properties
20141020 01:11:49< shadowm> Upstream hasn't said anything.
20141020 01:12:08< iceiceice> well he commented on your patch
20141020 01:12:13< shadowm> That's not upstream.
20141020 01:12:24< iceiceice> oh i misread it then
20141020 01:12:36< iceiceice> still, the commenter might be right
20141020 01:12:52< shadowm> Using a different font might work. Using a different font size works as well IME.
20141020 01:13:14< shadowm> But that's swiping the bug under the rug, and I haven't tested other combining characters.
20141020 01:14:03< shadowm> I'm not going to check atm, but I conjecture that throwing Zalgo at it would trigger the bug regardless of the font (as long as the font has the required glyphs).
20141020 01:15:21< iceiceice> its pretty ironic that Zalgo has turned out to be such a troublemaker
20141020 01:15:36< iceiceice> err... irony is not the right word
20141020 01:15:41< shadowm> Well, the test case isn't Zalgo.
20141020 01:15:50< iceiceice> ofc but still
20141020 01:16:14< shadowm> Unicode in general is a problem for badly-written applications and libraries.
20141020 01:16:24< c74d> Is “RA” the definitive abbreviation for “release announcement”?
20141020 01:16:36< shadowm> Yes, I just called SDL_ttf a badly-written library.
20141020 01:16:42< c74d> (In the context of the Battle for Wesnoth development process.)
20141020 01:16:54< shadowm> c74d: Why do you ask these silly questions?
20141020 01:17:06< c74d> So I know how to properly abbreviate it.
20141020 01:17:16< shadowm> I use the abbreviations I want when talking/posting as myself.
20141020 01:17:20< c74d> Should such a need arise.
20141020 01:17:40< shadowm> I wouldn't use "AFAICT", "IIRC", "IIRWIIR" and so on in an official-looking announcement.
20141020 01:18:11< c74d> As it has for me, in the matter of authoring a Git commit message’s summary line.
20141020 01:18:42< shadowm> iceiceice: Other than rendering, the most common Unicode-related bugs stem from authors assuming that characters are byte-sized, and then feeding UTF-8 input to their code.
20141020 01:19:56< shadowm> "Oh yes, this size() == 14 string can only have 14 characters, I'm pretty sure."
20141020 01:20:47< shadowm> Corrupt output, crashes, security holes, all kinds of shenanigans can ensue from dealing with Unicode with an ASCII mindset.
20141020 01:21:10-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141020 01:21:13< shadowm> c74d: What are you writing?
20141020 01:21:48< shadowm> Let me clarify: I am the only person who's used RA as an abbreviation for "release announcement", and odds are I'm the only person who parses it as such.
20141020 01:22:15< shadowm> That nobody else has complained or asked about it before is only indicative of how much people care about RA stuff.
20141020 01:22:25< c74d> A summary line for commit message for a Git commit effecting the change of moving two glyphs.
20141020 01:22:34< vultraz> What's going on?
20141020 01:22:46< shadowm> c74d: Don't do it. Tell me what needs to be changed.
20141020 01:23:08< shadowm> I don't really take external microcommits in wesnoth/website.
20141020 01:23:29< shadowm> vultraz: Hi vultraz. Read the logs and then ask.
20141020 01:24:28< shadowm> iceiceice: Oh, and then there's bugs resulting Unicode normalization (or lack thereof).
20141020 01:25:19< c74d> shadowm: wesnoth/website `/start/1.12/template.html` line 77 says “<cite>Wesnoth’s</cite>”, which should be “<cite>Wesnoth</cite>’s”.
20141020 01:25:26< iceiceice> in many cases this unicode vs. ascii is not an issue thoguh right?
20141020 01:25:31< shadowm> c74d: Justify the change.
20141020 01:25:33< iceiceice> for instance what bad things can happen with this line:
20141020 01:25:33< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/text.cpp#L828
20141020 01:26:05< iceiceice> i guess if you had a string like "`Zalgo`tp://" it might think its a link or something
20141020 01:26:07< iceiceice> but really who cares
20141020 01:26:17< shadowm> iceiceice: No, it wouldn0't.
20141020 01:26:27< shadowm> There is only one way to spell "http://" in code.
20141020 01:26:43< iceiceice> does standard string properly handle utf8 or just give me char sized segments of it
20141020 01:27:04< shadowm> If you spell it in some other way (for example, with zero-width spaces in between), the strings just won't match.
20141020 01:27:19-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
20141020 01:27:19< shadowm> AFAICT that isn't a problem for this usage.
20141020 01:27:34< iceiceice> so what does the first char sized segment of 'Zalgo' look like
20141020 01:27:45< shadowm> Now, if you were trying to use the input as a database table key we'd have a problem.
20141020 01:27:46< iceiceice> i mean there's surely some pure ascii string that causes a collission?
20141020 01:27:52< c74d> shadowm, vultraz (whose change this was): Quoth the WHATWG, “The cite element represents the title of a work (e.g. […] a computer program, etc.) This can be a work that is being quoted or referenced in detail (i.e. a citation), or it can just be a work that is mentioned in passing.”
20141020 01:28:11< iceiceice> unless i dont really understand how it works :)
20141020 01:28:34< c74d> The title of the work is variously “The Battle for Wesnoth” and “Battle for Wesnoth”, often abbreviated to “Wesnoth”.
20141020 01:28:53< shadowm> iceiceice: std::string only represents a string of chars (as in the char type) and it doesn't know about encodings at all.
20141020 01:29:22< iceiceice> yeah
20141020 01:29:25< c74d> “Wesnoth’s” is not the title of a work, or at least not the intended one.
20141020 01:29:26< shadowm> char is 8 bytes in size, and IIRC its signedness is implementation-defined.
20141020 01:29:33< iceiceice> so probably there is some unicode string that causes a collision there
20141020 01:29:44< iceiceice> its just not very probably, or very important that it does
20141020 01:29:55< iceiceice> *not very probable to occur in practice
20141020 01:29:55< shadowm> The only guarantee you have when using strings with UTF-8 is that values 0x00 through 0x7F are always ASCII.
20141020 01:30:00< c74d> `char` is 1 byte in size, no…?
20141020 01:30:05< shadowm> 0x80 through 0xFF are reserved for encoding UTF-8.
20141020 01:30:07< shadowm> Yes.
20141020 01:30:17< shadowm> *encoding the non-ASCII portion of UTF-8.
20141020 01:30:37< shadowm> c74d: Yes, I read what the WHATWG has to say on the matter, thanks.
20141020 01:30:56< shadowm> c74d: The WHATWG document doesn't say *anything* about dealing with particles like ’s.
20141020 01:31:42< iceiceice> shadowm: so it means that if there is a multibyte char, none of its bytes are in the range 0x00 through 0x7F?
20141020 01:31:51< shadowm> Browsers are obviously incapable of dealing with them as well, so you get “Wesnoth” in an inline block rendered with the italic variant of the selected font, followed by “’s” in the normal variant.
20141020 01:31:54< iceiceice> *multibyte unicode character
20141020 01:31:57< c74d> You consider the “’s” to be part of the title of the work?
20141020 01:31:59< shadowm> Which is awful.
20141020 01:32:08< shadowm> From a typesetting point of view.
20141020 01:32:20< shadowm> Presentation trumps markup correctness in this case.
20141020 01:32:29< c74d> D:
20141020 01:32:33< c74d> D:<<
20141020 01:32:50 * c74d explodes in a mess of vultraz-esque emoticons.
20141020 01:33:10 * c74d self-reconstitutes.
20141020 01:33:52< shadowm> Go complain to them for not coming up with a way to conditionally style elements according to a partial match of the text contents of preceding elements, optionally by using forced cross-element style inheritance for the task.
20141020 01:34:12< shadowm> iceiceice: Yes.
20141020 01:34:12< c74d> <cite>Wesnoth</cite><span class='italic'>’s</span>
20141020 01:34:24< iceiceice> ahh thats kind of nice actually
20141020 01:34:29< iceiceice> so theres really no possibility of a collission here
20141020 01:34:44< shadowm> This is partly because UTF-8 is designed to be interruptible over the wire.
20141020 01:35:04< iceiceice> yeah its a good thing
20141020 01:35:37< iceiceice> it also means that if there is a "noisy string" its unliekly to have extended segments which map to some ridiculous unicode character
20141020 01:35:49< shadowm> I.e. if you get a byte sequence with values 0x80-0xFF and it doesn't look like a valid UTF-8 sequence you are supposed to be to assume it is invalid.
20141020 01:36:24< shadowm> And the "doesn't look like a valid UTF-8 sequence" follows a specific set of rules I don't understand, that mustn't require too much context (thus processing power).
20141020 01:36:47< shadowm> This is where I must remind people that IANAUL.
20141020 01:37:02< iceiceice> whoopsies i broke campaignd
20141020 01:37:06< iceiceice> i wasnt testing that locally
20141020 01:37:14< shadowm> Eh?
20141020 01:37:22< iceiceice> (on the 1.12 pr)
20141020 01:37:27< iceiceice> what would we do without travis :)
20141020 01:37:38< shadowm> Oh, okay, I was already going to perform CPR on the server.
20141020 01:38:23< c74d> Or `<cite>Wesnoth</cite><span class='particle'>’s</span>` and `cite + .particle {font-style: italic}`.
20141020 01:38:34< shadowm> c74d: No and no.
20141020 01:38:58< c74d> Or even `<cite>Wesnoth</cite><span>’s</span>` and `cite + span {font-style: italic}`.
20141020 01:39:06< shadowm> You are suggesting the equivalent of having <garticle>, <gconjunction>, <gadjective>, <gnoun>, etc. tags.
20141020 01:41:24< iceiceice> shadowm: are we supposed to backport serialization/unicode to 1.12?
20141020 01:41:53< iceiceice> when i cherry-picked i got some stuff like this:
20141020 01:41:54< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/306/files#diff-98a0b6ff7f11ac8f7678d67d134ba670L490
20141020 01:42:02< iceiceice> i guess that utils::lowercase might still be bugged on 1.12?
20141020 01:42:05< c74d> Why is separately marking-up the “’s” problematic?
20141020 01:42:06< iceiceice> i cant' remember how that resolved
20141020 01:43:04< iceiceice> i think this is literally the only place this is relevant
20141020 01:46:41< iceiceice> this looks vaguely like the code we fixed to me... https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/1.12/src/serialization/string_utils.cpp#L1068
20141020 01:46:43< iceiceice> ... ?
20141020 01:47:10< c74d> vultraz: you also wrapped the occurrence of “The Battle for Wesnoth” in the copyright footer in <cite> tags. That shouldn’t be in <cite> tags because it’s the name of the project, not the name of the product.
20141020 01:47:40< c74d> s/tags because/tags, because/
20141020 01:48:36< iceiceice> ok im making executive decision to leave it with utils::lowercase, if no one is convinced that's wrong
20141020 01:54:31< c74d> shadowm: ^ There’s another issue.
20141020 02:11:33< shadowm> c74d: I was going to ask him about it when he came online, since I'm uncertain about his ability/interest in reading the IRClogs.
20141020 02:12:45< shadowm> iceiceice: I don't know why the unicode utils changes weren't fully backported to 1.12 (i.e. at least the API names weren't), best ask AI0867 and aquileia about that.
20141020 02:13:16< iceiceice> i think they were substantively backported, just not that api name
20141020 02:13:35< shadowm> My work backporting the campaignd refactor to 1.12 solely consisted of cherry-picking patches from master and solving conflicts resulting from the utf8::lowercase vs. utils::lowercase difference.
20141020 02:13:48< shadowm> It was far more tedious than it sounds.
20141020 02:14:48< shadowm> (Also diffing diffs to make sure that my conflict-resolution changes were indeed limited to that singular API difference.)
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20141020 02:15:20< shadowm> 22:42:05 <c74d> Why is separately marking-up the “’s” problematic?
20141020 02:15:45< shadowm> Instead of asking these questions, try to be the person doing all the work for once.
20141020 02:16:19< shadowm> Which do you think is more readable to me:  <cite>Wesnoth’s</cite>    <cite>Wesnoth</cite><span class="unwieldclassnamehere">’s</span>
20141020 02:16:40< shadowm> Don't answer that question.
20141020 02:17:18< shadowm> I mean, don't give me the answer. Keep it to yourself.
20141020 02:18:36-!- vultraz [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/vultraz] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141020 02:19:09-!- Ivanovic [~ivanovic@wesnoth/developer/ivanovic] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20141020 02:19:14< mattsc> Hmm, I _think_ I sent the update to the ML using the correct email address, but so far it doesn’t seem to be going through  :(
20141020 02:19:22< shadowm> mattsc: wesnoth-dev@gna.org?
20141020 02:19:35< shadowm> mattsc: I have the email.
20141020 02:19:47< iceiceice> man this is annyoing
20141020 02:19:51< vultraz> shadowm: I have great disinterest with reading irc logs
20141020 02:19:55< mattsc> shadowm: oh, okay, then it just hasn’t gotten back to me yet ...
20141020 02:19:56< iceiceice> i keep getting this one when i try to make a virtual machine
20141020 02:19:57< iceiceice> http://i.imgur.com/8X3TY3w.png
20141020 02:19:59< iceiceice> i have no idea what that means
20141020 02:20:17< mattsc> shadowm: no, I meant *my* correct email address, so that it doesn’t require moderation.
20141020 02:20:47-!- Ivanovic_ is now known as Ivanovic
20141020 02:20:48< shadowm> iceiceice: Do you have Intel VT-x (if Intel) or AMD-V (if AMD) enabled in your BIOS/UEFI configuration?
20141020 02:21:09< iceiceice> oh it matters how my actual bios is configured?
20141020 02:21:28< shadowm> If not then you should enable it. And if your machine doesn't support either feature set, you can still edit the VM settings and disable hardware-assisted virtualization for it.
20141020 02:21:40< vultraz> Also the IRC logs are damn hard to skim
20141020 02:21:46< mattsc> shadowm: oh, maybe the ML doesn’t send it back to the author.  That’s possible, of course ...
20141020 02:21:52< iceiceice> so i know my bios is a little screwed up,
20141020 02:22:03< iceiceice> since i got this machine, whenever i boot up i have to restart immediately or the mouse doesnt work
20141020 02:22:09< shadowm> Having VT-x/AMD-V is *highly* recommended for anything greater than Windows XP, though.
20141020 02:22:23< iceiceice> theres allegedly some bios patch but i'm not bothered enough about it
20141020 02:23:06< shadowm> mattsc: I don't know how mailing lists work, I think my email client just puts my message in the relevant label for me.
20141020 02:23:08< iceiceice> maybe i should try to apply it and also turn on this feature
20141020 02:23:27< shadowm> iceiceice: It'd be a bad idea to do both things at the same time.
20141020 02:24:04< shadowm> In general, BIOS/UEFI updates always have a chance to brick your system (especially if you aren't on battery-backed power), or cause regressions.
20141020 02:25:05-!- gfgtdf [~chatzilla@f050183125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]]
20141020 02:25:26< shadowm> And in general, when you are dealing with complicated systems, you don't want to perform multiple changes at the same time unless you don't have a problem with spending extra time figuring out which one is the culprit in case of regressions.
20141020 02:25:49< shadowm> vultraz: Read the logs.
20141020 02:25:55< vultraz> I skimmed
20141020 02:25:57< shadowm> Seriously. This is dev 101.
20141020 02:26:03< shadowm> CTRL+F "vultraz".
20141020 02:26:13< vultraz> Something about numbers-san and <cite> issues
20141020 02:26:25< vultraz> I have no opinion - that's purely up to you
20141020 02:26:37< vultraz> But I see no reason not to include 's in the cite
20141020 02:28:25< vultraz> shadowm: if you haven't done the 7th screenshot yet, I'm still in favor of an underground one for diversity
20141020 02:28:52< shadowm> vultraz: And yet, if diversity were an argument then the 7th screenshot should NOT be underground.
20141020 02:29:14< shadowm> As I said, we already have an underground map -- well, mixed snowy/underground map but still.
20141020 02:29:35< shadowm> If anything, your argument reinforces my point that we need a desert map shot.
20141020 02:30:53< vultraz> The goal was to display a portrait - the wraith was considered - and that shows best against a dark background  - which underground maps have - plus, they have the new bridges
20141020 02:31:39< shadowm> mattsc: Note that if we somehow released 1.12.0 24 hours before the Debian stable freeze, it's still not guaranteed that the packager would have time to build and upload it.
20141020 02:31:47< vultraz> This, killing three birds with one screenshot
20141020 02:32:27< shadowm> Give me a mainline scenario that meets all these criteria, vultraz.
20141020 02:32:51< shadowm> Where it's also expected for a Wraith to have a speaking line at some point.
20141020 02:33:01< vultraz> Must it be mainline?
20141020 02:33:11< shadowm> Ideally, yes.
20141020 02:33:42< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i think this PR is ready to go: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/307
20141020 02:33:45-!- tomreyn [~tomreyn@megaglest/team/tomreyn] has quit [Quit: tomreyn]
20141020 02:33:46< shadowm> (You know you've spent too much time working on something when you find yourself debating absurdly minor details like this.)
20141020 02:34:15< iceiceice> shadowm: i think 2nd to last DiD scenario has this
20141020 02:34:18< vultraz> I don't know of one...
20141020 02:34:28< vultraz> Not offhand
20141020 02:34:33< shadowm> iceiceice: Yeah, I did a speedrun of DiD this morning, it was fun.
20141020 02:34:36< iceiceice> hehe
20141020 02:34:51< shadowm> But all instances of wraiths speaking in DiD are spoilery.
20141020 02:34:56< iceiceice> i think i lost the first time i played on hard
20141020 02:35:04< iceiceice> i didnt realize i needed to like stockpile shadows
20141020 02:35:07< iceiceice> for that one scenario
20141020 02:35:07< shadowm> *Except* for the third scenario, that doesn't meet all of vultraz's criteria.
20141020 02:35:19< shadowm> iceiceice: Oh, I played on Easy.
20141020 02:35:24< vultraz> The bridges are optional
20141020 02:35:33< vultraz> I don't believe we've even made use of them in mainline
20141020 02:36:01< iceiceice> i think you should just take tournament game replays from the forums
20141020 02:36:07< shadowm> I'd have played on Normal if I hadn't already played through the campaign twice or thrice and known that Alone at Last can become unmanageable at the drop of a hat.
20141020 02:36:08< iceiceice> and make screenshots of the epic moments
20141020 02:36:20< iceiceice> except it might be hard to load them in 1.12.0 i guess :/
20141020 02:36:51< shadowm> (More specifically, if you don't kill Darken Volk quick enough and you get overrun by the religious fanatics in white.)
20141020 02:37:03< iceiceice> yeah the river is a big advantage though
20141020 02:37:20< iceiceice> the hard part imo is getting intot he library
20141020 02:37:29< iceiceice> idk any good way to do that except assassination
20141020 02:37:34< shadowm> Hm, that was very easy on Easy for me.
20141020 02:37:40< iceiceice> yeah its not difficult on easy
20141020 02:37:50< shadowm> I just recalled a bunch of L2s and recruited a couple of L1s, until I ran out of gold.
20141020 02:38:01< iceiceice> yeah i guess you dont have as much gold on hard ;)
20141020 02:38:03< shadowm> Then killed everything in sight.
20141020 02:38:12< shadowm> Yeah, that'd be a problem on higher levels.
20141020 02:38:17< iceiceice> if you wake that guy up he recruits a lot of stuff
20141020 02:38:27< iceiceice> iirc
20141020 02:38:40< shadowm> Hm, I didn't see that.
20141020 02:39:12< shadowm> Oh, I see. The guards get {GOLD 75 150 300} when you wake them.
20141020 02:39:49< shadowm> That sounds rather unfair for Hard, unless people normally manage to accrue far more gold than me.
20141020 02:40:33< vultraz> shadowm: TSG S07a
20141020 02:40:41< iceiceice> i think you just have to kill him before he can spend it :)
20141020 02:40:45< mattsc> shadowm: yeah, I was wondering about that
20141020 02:41:04< vultraz> which should really use the new bridge anyway
20141020 02:41:31< shadowm> vultraz: I haven't gotten to that point in TSG yet. Also, is it really a Wraith?
20141020 02:42:09< shadowm> Mebrin's lich form is a walking spoiler and we can't show that.
20141020 02:42:44< vultraz> who's what what?
20141020 02:42:50< vultraz> I don;t think I ever finished TSG
20141020 02:43:27< vultraz> ..nevermind, it's just on the recruit list
20141020 02:43:56 * shadowm rolls eyes.
20141020 02:44:41< vultraz> GOD DAMMIT
20141020 02:44:43< shadowm> I know where there is a recurrently talking Wraith.
20141020 02:44:59< shadowm> It's one of the accursed names, though, and I'd rather not have to resort to *that*.
20141020 02:45:28< vultraz> iftu s3?
20141020 02:45:51< shadowm> No, in mainline.
20141020 02:46:20< shadowm> Besides, IftU S3 has never had talking Wraiths.
20141020 02:46:35< vultraz> Ok, where?
20141020 02:46:37< shadowm> Unless you played a bootleg version. *shrug*
20141020 02:46:50< shadowm> vultraz: Northern Rebirth, "The Pursuit" onwards.
20141020 02:46:55< shadowm> :C
20141020 02:47:11< vultraz> Nooooo
20141020 02:47:21< vultraz> Don't even mention that accursed name
20141020 02:47:33< shadowm> I told you it was one of the accursed names.
20141020 02:48:01< vultraz> name= _ "Abhai"
20141020 02:48:07 * vultraz runs screaming
20141020 02:49:00< iceiceice> ok i'm off, bb
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20141020 02:49:08< vultraz> shadowm: make an artificial scenario
20141020 02:49:17< vultraz> or inject a wraith into an ats scenario
20141020 02:50:05< shadowm> Any particular scenario in mind?
20141020 02:50:40< shadowm> :\
20141020 02:51:00< shadowm> I'd rather not have to do show add-on units in the screenshot.
20141020 02:51:03< shadowm> s/do//
20141020 02:51:07< vultraz> AtS E3S08a01
20141020 02:51:28< shadowm> That's the first floor of Interim.
20141020 02:51:50< vultraz> So?
20141020 02:51:53< shadowm> There's only Elyssa and the demons there.
20141020 02:51:59< vultraz> bleghshshgfuisghdifuh
20141020 02:52:06< vultraz> AtS E3S5
20141020 02:52:18< vultraz> Much undead there
20141020 02:52:27< shadowm> Pass of Sorrows.
20141020 02:52:38< shadowm> 23:51:00 <shadowm> I'd rather not have to do show add-on units in the screenshot.
20141020 02:52:46< shadowm> (sic)
20141020 02:53:05< vultraz> Why? Addon units are now a functionality of the editor
20141020 02:53:32< shadowm> Yeah, but they don't ship with the game because they are add-ons.
20141020 02:55:55< shadowm> Hm.
20141020 02:56:06< shadowm> Actually, why don't we show Li'sar instead?
20141020 02:56:29< shadowm> Her existence ceased to be a spoiler the moment rusty's tutorial got mainlined.
20141020 02:57:31< vultraz> I just noticed that glas!Li'sar's face is creepy as fuck
20141020 02:57:34< vultraz> glad*
20141020 02:57:47< vultraz> 'I'm smiling but I'm gonna fucking end you'
20141020 02:58:09< shadowm> Konrad's smiling portrait creeps me out too.
20141020 02:58:30< vultraz> ohgodwhy
20141020 02:58:37< shadowm> It's funny how hard it's to make a friendly smile work right in drawing.
20141020 02:59:03< shadowm> Thankfully, we don't get to see them happy very often.
20141020 03:00:51< c74d> “’s”’s in <cite>s.
20141020 03:01:31< c74d> Presentation! …over *semantics*!
20141020 03:01:35< vultraz> yes
20141020 03:01:44< vultraz> Presentation over semantics
20141020 03:02:17< vultraz> Did you know in my branch the exclamation mark in the intro was originally one space away from the word, since it looked better?
20141020 03:02:50< shadowm> Typesetting over semantics, to be precise.
20141020 03:02:57< c74d> Convenience…! Over CORRECTNESS.
20141020 03:03:09< c74d> Fie! Fie.
20141020 03:03:17< shadowm> c74d: The alternative is to include text pictures everywhere.
20141020 03:03:31< shadowm> I'm sure you'd prefer my approach over that.
20141020 03:03:47< vultraz> Any moment now I expect numbers-san to start shouting VIVA LE REVOLUTION
20141020 03:04:11< c74d> May your tags blink until the EEENNND of DAAAYYYSSS.
20141020 03:05:19< vultraz> shadowm: I recommend word art :)
20141020 03:05:33< vultraz> Perhaps ripped from powerpoint 2004?
20141020 03:05:34 * c74d twitches.
20141020 03:06:31< vultraz> We can have big rainbow arching text on the top of the page
20141020 03:06:44< vultraz> Every section header can be blue, blocky shadowed text
20141020 03:07:27 * c74d twitches in continuation of its prior monologue, not at vultraz’s Word “art”.
20141020 03:07:37-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20141020 03:15:25< irker249> wesnoth: Chris Beck website:best_website_ever a95dcba1cf3d / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: nothing to see here... http://git.io/i_ptBw
20141020 03:16:43 * shadowm makes a note to push-remove that later.
20141020 03:20:27 * vultraz vomits
20141020 03:23:00< irker249> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:master e342e5364e6a / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/16_Hasty_Alliance.cfg: HttT S16: Hide Li'sar on prestart, not start http://git.io/ZZH2rw
20141020 03:23:03< irker249> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 b92781dbba67 / data/campaigns/Heir_To_The_Throne/scenarios/16_Hasty_Alliance.cfg: HttT S16: Hide Li'sar on prestart, not start http://git.io/mihbNw
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20141020 03:56:11< vultraz> shadowm: i deleted that branch
20141020 03:59:39< vultraz> shadowm: also, what's the point of 8901927?
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20141020 04:43:44< shadowm> vultraz: http://i.imgur.com/eWB1dAI.png
20141020 04:44:48< vultraz> Is there a reason you keep switching methods of showing us screenshots?
20141020 04:44:58< shadowm> Have I?
20141020 04:45:24< vultraz> Yesterday you were using ip links
20141020 04:45:33< shadowm> Because that was directly on my machine.
20141020 04:45:38< shadowm> And on the correct dir.
20141020 04:45:52< vultraz> This is fine, though
20141020 04:46:30< vultraz> Also, funny thing..I just noticed the horrible gradient in the TOD image. Very similar to Chrome's rendering...
20141020 04:46:47< vultraz> rendering of gradients*
20141020 04:47:07< vultraz> Will try to unsea
20141020 04:47:08< shadowm> So now I get to replace screenshot #2 with this.
20141020 04:47:33< shadowm> Mal-Ravanal will be the spokeslich for fabi's UI improvements.
20141020 04:48:15< vultraz> You're not adding it as a 7th?
20141020 04:48:23< shadowm> No, we already have an EI screenshot.
20141020 04:48:31< shadowm> We can't have two.
20141020 04:49:04< vultraz> Ah
20141020 04:49:21 * vultraz cannot unsea gradient
20141020 04:51:01-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@unaffiliated/matthiaskrgr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20141020 04:52:00< shadowm> Although that Ancient Lich sprite is bothering me.
20141020 04:52:06< shadowm> Okay no, scrap that idea.
20141020 04:53:55< vultraz> shadowm: personally, my fav Ancient Lich portrait is the one in my GH avatar
20141020 04:54:03< vultraz> But I suppose it would be too spoilery to use 
20141020 04:54:15-!- matthiaskrgr [matthiaskr@I.Eat.Babies.PanicBNC.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141020 04:54:16< shadowm> SPOILERY LIKE HELL.
20141020 04:54:39-!- matthiaskrgr is now known as Guest12586
20141020 04:55:09< shadowm> Okay, Wraiths can't go rogue in DiD 3.
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20141020 05:02:12< shadowm> vultraz: http://i.imgur.com/Lm0TFnS.png
20141020 05:02:21< shadowm> I hope you are happy about this.
20141020 05:02:53< shadowm> Now I'm going to deal with the cropping pain.
20141020 05:06:30< vultraz> Not exactly where I imagined it, but it'll do
20141020 05:06:43< shadowm> ... Where did you imagine it.
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20141020 05:08:14< shadowm> vultraz: http://186.10.11.157:8888/start/1.12/template.html#multiplayer
20141020 05:08:19< shadowm> Give me placement alternatives.
20141020 05:08:42< shadowm> It's width matches that of the UI screenshot thumbnail below.
20141020 05:09:05< vultraz> A
20141020 05:09:11< vultraz> it does not - it's slightly wider
20141020 05:09:13< vultraz> B
20141020 05:09:17< vultraz> it should be tleft
20141020 05:09:19< vultraz> and C
20141020 05:09:40< vultraz> I had imagined a shot near the entrance, since the cave is kinda bland
20141020 05:10:12< shadowm> What.
20141020 05:10:28< shadowm> No, it's not wider, vultraz.
20141020 05:10:37< vultraz> It is
20141020 05:10:41< shadowm> No it isn't.
20141020 05:10:52< shadowm> It's 285x300, the UI shot thumbnail is 285x160.
20141020 05:11:23< shadowm> I have the GIMP here, the GIMP speaks the absolutely truth.
20141020 05:11:29 * vultraz inspects
20141020 05:11:45< vultraz> Ok
20141020 05:11:47< vultraz> Yes, they are
20141020 05:11:49< vultraz> But..
20141020 05:12:15< shadowm> They are even perfectly aligned on the Chromium render.
20141020 05:12:33< vultraz> Must have been an inaccurate measurement by me
20141020 05:12:54< shadowm> 02:09:39 <vultraz> I had imagined a shot near the entrance
20141020 05:12:59< shadowm> Odds of that happening are near nil.
20141020 05:13:14< shadowm> Why would you move a ghost about to go rogue back to the entrance, mid-scenario?
20141020 05:13:35< shadowm> "it should be left" -- no why.
20141020 05:13:41< vultraz> no why?
20141020 05:13:44< shadowm> It'd break the section's flow.
20141020 05:13:58< shadowm> The alternating positions thing you did is a cool idea.
20141020 05:14:00< vultraz> Well having two in one section
20141020 05:14:03< shadowm> But it only works between different sections.
20141020 05:14:10< vultraz> of different size, makes it look...weird
20141020 05:14:17< vultraz> However
20141020 05:14:22< shadowm> Do it in the same section and you disrupt the LRTB reading flow.
20141020 05:14:24< vultraz> if you insist on keeping it...
20141020 05:14:37< vultraz> then the next one has to be moved left, and the next right
20141020 05:14:40< shadowm> Then I'll move it to General.
20141020 05:15:00< vultraz> Why not do what you did with the titlescreen and stick a big thing at the bottom
20141020 05:15:09< shadowm> vultraz: Refresh.
20141020 05:15:25< shadowm> Why would I want this particular screenshot to be a "big thing" at the bottom?
20141020 05:15:35< shadowm> The title screen is the title screen.
20141020 05:16:03< shadowm> It's a central piece of the announcement, the changes in 1.11.x, and the game itself. This portrait and this particular artifical appearance of it is *not*.
20141020 05:16:10< vultraz> Ok
20141020 05:16:23< vultraz> Well
20141020 05:16:38< vultraz> I recommend then, moving both in General to the left, and #6 right
20141020 05:16:42< shadowm> Ideally I'd put it in the For Players section but guess what there's no space left in it.
20141020 05:16:47< shadowm> At least not at full width.
20141020 05:16:49< vultraz> we cannot have three shots in a row on the right
20141020 05:16:51< vultraz> two is max
20141020 05:17:04< vultraz> I deliberately left two so as to now end up in a pattern
20141020 05:17:07< vultraz> not*
20141020 05:17:50< shadowm> Refresh.
20141020 05:18:17< shadowm> Maybe I should just get rid of the UI shot.
20141020 05:18:26< shadowm> I feel it's a massive waste of space.
20141020 05:19:12< vultraz> Agreed
20141020 05:19:15< vultraz> let's see it without
20141020 05:19:22< shadowm> Alternatively, we'd need two more screenshots -- one for Multiplayer, and another for Content Creators.
20141020 05:19:31< shadowm> Refresh.
20141020 05:19:44< vultraz> But if you remove it, the Wraith goes back right and 6 back left 8sigh*
20141020 05:20:27< shadowm> Wut.
20141020 05:20:34< shadowm> What are you talking about?
20141020 05:20:55< shadowm> The editor shot is on the right, and the Wraith is on the left.
20141020 05:21:57< vultraz> The only reason to move the wraith and editor shots was to avoid three in a row on the same side
20141020 05:22:09< vultraz> if you remove the UI shots, all can return to their original configuration
20141020 05:22:44< vultraz> And really, more and more I'm starting to think we should have kept spokeslich
20141020 05:23:00< shadowm> But it uses that godawful Ancient Lich sprite.
20141020 05:23:17< shadowm> With the tracestolen head.
20141020 05:23:22< shadowm> *traced/stolen
20141020 05:23:47< shadowm> And zookeeper's shadow experiment.
20141020 05:24:15< vultraz> Didn't we purge all spites of that?
20141020 05:24:17< vultraz> sprites
20141020 05:24:46< vultraz> Guess not...
20141020 05:24:55< vultraz> But I think the public doesn't care about the AL sprite
20141020 05:25:13< shadowm> But it looks awful.
20141020 05:25:16< shadowm> I care.
20141020 05:25:57< shadowm> 5 animation frames.
20141020 05:26:18< shadowm> Shadow doesn't work nicely with color selection.
20141020 05:28:52< vultraz> So what do we do. the Wraith is nice but the map painfully dull - especially showcased in a release that talks about how you can decorate your maps - and the spokeslich is nice, but the sprite is bad
20141020 05:29:09< vultraz> the spokeslich has a nice map*
20141020 05:30:27< shadowm> I vote for excluding portraits.
20141020 05:31:51< vultraz> And what screenshot would replace the UI one, then?
20141020 05:31:59< vultraz> I feel we should showcase at least ONE dammit
20141020 05:43:51< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/ancient-lich.png
20141020 05:44:17< shadowm> But if I spent more time on this it'd be like killing a fly with an nuclear bomb.
20141020 05:44:21< shadowm> *a
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20141020 05:48:32< shadowm> Plus I'm sure an actual artist would do a better job.
20141020 05:50:01< vultraz> Good enough
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20141020 06:26:05< shadowm> vultraz: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/ancient-lich2.png
20141020 06:26:14< shadowm> Gods why am I doing this.
20141020 06:29:34< shadowm> vultraz: We need to decide what to do about this before the string freeze. The actual images (but not file names/HTML) can be modified later.
20141020 06:30:43< vultraz> Alright
20141020 06:30:51< vultraz> First, are we in agreement that the UI screenshot be replaced?
20141020 06:31:01< shadowm> No.
20141020 06:31:07< shadowm> I didn't know it had to be replaced.
20141020 06:31:54< vultraz> I thought you intoned such above
20141020 06:33:25< shadowm> Honestly, I'm tired of working on details like this and at this point I just want to never see the announcement ever again.
20141020 06:33:37< shadowm> Except I'll have to keep seeing it to translate it.
20141020 06:34:40< vultraz> This is the last thing that has to be done
20141020 06:34:55< vultraz> But if we don't get it done we're going to start seeing a dozen other little things
20141020 06:35:13< vultraz> I recommend you commit your sprite to EI
20141020 06:35:20< vultraz> call it a very late art asset
20141020 06:35:34< shadowm> ...
20141020 06:35:42< shadowm> It's not Eastern Invasion-specific vultraz come *on*.
20141020 06:35:52< shadowm> It's the Ancient Lich.
20141020 06:35:57< vultraz> oh, I see
20141020 06:36:01< vultraz> Ok, even better
20141020 06:36:05< shadowm> Ever played AtS?
20141020 06:36:07< shadowm> Or IftU?
20141020 06:36:12< vultraz> yes
20141020 06:37:04< shadowm> Also, I'm not an artist.
20141020 06:37:12< shadowm> Stuff has to go through the usual people etc.
20141020 06:37:54< vultraz> God dammit
20141020 06:37:57< vultraz> I can ask Zero for input
20141020 06:38:00< vultraz> If you want
20141020 06:38:11< vultraz> I'll be talking to him later anyway
20141020 06:38:27< vultraz> I actually left him a message asking if he noticed anything amiss, visually, with the announcement
20141020 06:38:46< shadowm> ...
20141020 06:39:03< shadowm> I was thinking Jetrel and zookeeper.
20141020 06:39:18< vultraz> Oh come on, don't deny we've been staring at this thing for over a week and some fresh eyes would do some good
20141020 06:39:22< Jetrel> boo
20141020 06:39:26< vultraz> holy shit
20141020 06:39:36< shadowm> I was talking about the sprite.
20141020 06:39:39 * zookeeper shambles
20141020 06:39:44< vultraz> o_o
20141020 06:39:55< Jetrel> Yeah, that looks quite fine
20141020 06:40:02< vultraz> why not both
20141020 06:40:27< vultraz> http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/template.html
20141020 06:40:40< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/ancient-lich4.png
20141020 06:40:54< shadowm> The more I look at it the more goofy it looks.
20141020 06:41:03< Jetrel> Nah, the sprite looks fine.
20141020 06:41:17< Jetrel> Don't over-analyze stuff like this or you'll never get anything done.
20141020 06:41:46< shadowm> Ugh, that's not even the latest version. I saved it to the wrong place.
20141020 06:42:16< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/ancient-lich6.png
20141020 06:42:48< vultraz> That's fine
20141020 06:43:03< vultraz> Commit the damn thing so we can proceed
20141020 06:43:05< shadowm> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/bananas.png
20141020 06:43:20< vultraz> oo
20141020 06:43:46< shadowm> But then I'd still need to deal with the animations.
20141020 06:44:49< shadowm> Probably should've kept the changes limited to a quick paint-over, but no, I went and changed some proportions.
20141020 06:44:59 * vultraz throws up his hands
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20141020 06:45:04< shadowm> Mostly because the current Ancient Lich is mysteriously shorter than the L3 Lich.
20141020 06:45:08< vultraz> It's a great improvement
20141020 06:45:11< vultraz> Perhaps
20141020 06:45:13< vultraz> Just perhaps
20141020 06:45:29< vultraz> You use the baseframe, take the screenshot, finish putting it on the page
20141020 06:45:32< vultraz> THEN animate it?
20141020 06:46:02< shadowm> That sounds like a good idea but I'd still have to get it ported by Friday.
20141020 06:46:27< vultraz> That's enough time
20141020 06:48:15< vultraz> I honestly just want to be able to call the announcement done
20141020 06:48:27< vultraz> I find myself staring at it in my text editor, thinking there's something else to do
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20141020 06:55:31< shadowm> Jetrel: So, to clarify what we're attempting to do here -- the Ancient Lich sprite still uses the old skull (and a non-standard shadow). We want to show off an Ancient Lich character's portrait in the 1.12 announcement, and for that we need to be able to include a sprite that doesn't look off compared to the current standards.
20141020 06:56:03< shadowm> Jetrel: And thus I came up with this paintover in like 15 minutes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21371130/ancient-lich-comp-ab.png
20141020 06:57:31< c74d> vultraz: There is still something else to do…
20141020 06:57:57 * c74d glares at a certain apostrophe.
20141020 06:58:04< c74d> …drop the erroneous <cite> tags in the copyright footer.
20141020 06:58:58< vultraz> I will let shadowm decide that
20141020 06:59:48< shadowm> I am going to drop *the* erroneous tag.
20141020 07:00:01< shadowm> This just in, numbers forgot how to count.
20141020 07:01:39< c74d> “<cite>...</cite>” is two tags, which form one element.
20141020 07:03:55 * shadowm kicks c74d.
20141020 07:05:14< zookeeper> so, you're going to update the lich sprites for 1.12? nice
20141020 07:05:20< zookeeper> ancient lich
20141020 07:06:29< shadowm> Apparently.
20141020 07:20:54< Jetrel> So yeah, please do.  It looks fine, let's not overanalyze it, let's just get it done.
20141020 07:26:33< shadowm> vultraz: http://186.10.11.157:8888/start/1.12/template.html refresh
20141020 07:26:51< shadowm> Ugh, I forgot to use the sidebar crop instead.
20141020 07:28:33< shadowm> Ah hm. And I need a taller crop because Mal Ravanal has a third attack.
20141020 07:29:47< shadowm> vultraz: Refresh again.
20141020 07:33:40< shadowm> Do you still want to replace the UI screenshot?
20141020 07:35:10< shadowm> Also -- there is a lot of unnecessary complexity surrounding the thumbnails' CSS. I'll work on that later independent of the string-freeze.
20141020 07:35:37< shadowm> So there's another reason why I won't be able to immediately forget about the announcement, yay.
20141020 07:35:47< shadowm> *indepedently
20141020 07:38:02-!- irker817 [~irker@fehu.ai0867.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141020 07:38:02< irker817> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 94906459156b / start/1.12/ (styles/westin.css template.html): Bye #global http://git.io/yV9dWg
20141020 07:38:05< irker817> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 7734ce404b45 / start/1.12/template.html: Copyrighted to the Battle for Wesnoth Project http://git.io/mF2iwQ
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20141020 08:11:55< shadowm> shikadibot: seen noy
20141020 08:11:55< shikadibot> shadowm: The person with the nick noy 3d 9h ago was here and on the channel #wesnoth-umc-dev with the message: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
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20141020 08:22:35< vultraz> shadowm: nice
20141020 08:23:17< vultraz> I think the UI screenshot is fine
20141020 08:24:40< vultraz> It could, ostensibly, be replaced
20141020 08:24:44< vultraz> But it's not a priority
20141020 08:25:15< shadowm> vultraz: So, finally, do you prefer to see the sidebar in the first screenshot's thumbnail, or Ravanal's portrait?
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20141020 08:25:34< shadowm> Or would, since I guess you didn't have a chance to see the latter crop.
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20141020 08:26:17< vultraz> Tentatively, I'd say Ravanal's portrait would look better
20141020 08:26:55< shadowm> vultraz: Refresh to watch it in action.
20141020 08:27:26 * vultraz ponders
20141020 08:28:46< vultraz> Ya know somehow that seems more appropriate under Campaigns
20141020 08:31:10< vultraz> shadowm: how about this
20141020 08:31:17< vultraz> move ravanal to campaigns
20141020 08:31:29< vultraz> restore the sidebar in for players
20141020 08:31:36< vultraz> move the shooting dwarf to general
20141020 08:31:44< vultraz> and get rid of the ui screenshot
20141020 08:32:40< shadowm> But then I'll need to take a new screenshot for the sidebar sample.
20141020 08:32:48< shadowm> We can't have two EI screenshots.
20141020 08:33:23< vultraz> Why
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20141020 08:33:57< vultraz> Barring that, just move it
20141020 08:33:58< shadowm> Why would you have two screenshots of the same campaign?
20141020 08:34:05< vultraz> let's see how it looks before committing ourselves
20141020 08:34:27< shadowm> Right.
20141020 08:36:21< shadowm> vultraz: Refresh.
20141020 08:37:54< vultraz> Hm. Not bad, not bad. But you moved general to the right again
20141020 08:38:01< vultraz> Er left
20141020 08:38:12< shadowm> Yes, to keep the zigzag pattern.
20141020 08:38:31< vultraz> I told you, I deliberately broke the zigzaz there
20141020 08:38:38< shadowm> Was it broken?
20141020 08:38:41-!- kex [~kex@78.157.29.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20141020 08:39:11< vultraz> R L R L L R
20141020 08:39:21< vultraz> er
20141020 08:39:23< shadowm> vultraz: F5
20141020 08:39:31< vultraz> R L R R L
20141020 08:40:10< vultraz> Content creators.back.to.left
20141020 08:40:14< vultraz> Then we're good
20141020 08:40:30< vultraz> I told you, we cannot have three successive images on the same side
20141020 08:40:36< shadowm> Okay, done.
20141020 08:41:17< vultraz> Looks quite good, don't you think?
20141020 08:41:29< vultraz> And all shots are now relevant to their sections
20141020 08:41:56< vultraz> Except general, but I'm weary of favoring the UI shot the nice dwarf action shot
20141020 08:41:57< shadowm> I should probably retake the Ravanal shot without that bothersome unit ellipse behind.
20141020 08:43:20< shadowm> <vultraz> What I'm trying to say is that I'd have allowed the UI shot to stay if you had included SoD in it
20141020 08:43:46< vultraz> That thought did not cross my mind
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20141020 08:43:55< shadowm> It's funnier this way.
20141020 08:44:07< shadowm> I do feel Content Creators is missing a second screenshot or something.
20141020 08:45:04< shadowm> Perhaps I should take a screenshot of an add-on making use of flashy animation effects or something.
20141020 08:45:09< shadowm> I don't know.
20141020 08:45:27< vultraz> AtS has many
20141020 08:45:58< vultraz> Unless you propose to play through all 6 episodes and 200+ scenarios of LotI looking for one? :)
20141020 08:46:12 * shadowm facepalms.
20141020 08:46:26< shadowm> Nothing of this was a problem for the feature freeze to begin with.
20141020 08:46:30< shadowm> I mean string freeze.
20141020 08:47:08< shadowm> Only the opening <a> tag for each screenshot generates pot entries.
20141020 08:47:20< shadowm> And those can be quite frankly dealt with automatically.
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20141020 08:47:58< shadowm> Unless we are going to trust translators this time to generate localized screenshots... unlikely.
20141020 08:49:33< shadowm> vultraz: Okay, so, to wrap things up: 1) I need to replace the opening EI sidebar screenshot; 2) I need to retake the Ravanal shot without that pesky bystander (and make the thumbnail a bit taller maybe?)
20141020 08:49:53< shadowm> And I guess that's that unless you can think of a second screenshot for the creators section.
20141020 08:50:28< vultraz> yes, taller, and a little narrower
20141020 08:50:44< shadowm> How narrower are we talking about here?
20141020 08:51:15< shadowm> About the same as the gameplay screenshots in Multiplayer and General?
20141020 08:51:36< vultraz> yes
20141020 08:51:48< vultraz> perhaps a little wider, to accommodate him
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20141020 08:54:54< vultraz> shadowm: curious, what's the difference between lines 288 and 299 in westin?
20141020 08:57:56< shadowm> 288 and 299?
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20141020 08:58:26< shadowm> Plenty, because <code> is not the same element as <abbr>.
20141020 09:07:01< vultraz> shadowm: dammit, I meant 388/399
20141020 09:08:24< vultraz> you also have three #logo references, I don't know why
20141020 09:08:54< shadowm> #logo; #logo img; #logo a
20141020 09:09:31< vultraz> #logo img does nothing, since it contains the same margin and padding as its parent
20141020 09:09:55< shadowm> 1) Element with id 'logo'; 2) img elements that are descendant elements of the element with id 'logo'; 3) a elements that are descendant elements of the element with id 'logo'.
20141020 09:10:31< vultraz> I know this
20141020 09:10:58< shadowm> 388 matches the element with id 'download-button', state pseudoclass 'active'.
20141020 09:11:15< shadowm> So does 399, but the properties in the set are completely different.
20141020 09:11:47< shadowm> You don't want the background-position property to be set with those values in the block at 388.
20141020 09:11:57< shadowm> Because it also matches plain #download-button.
20141020 09:12:10< vultraz> I see
20141020 09:13:51< vultraz> Well I guess I can't argue with that
20141020 09:14:04 * vultraz goes back to trying to find some other minor thing to fix
20141020 09:14:10< shadowm> The reason the color is specified for specific states is to override 214-218 using greater specificity.
20141020 09:15:20< shadowm> Also, at some point all of #intro had the same text-shadow.
20141020 09:15:39< shadowm> #download-button needs different state-specific values.
20141020 09:16:56< shadowm> Oh right I forgot the block above.
20141020 09:17:33< shadowm> Yes, 387-391 are redundant and should go into the block ending at 385.
20141020 09:18:02< shadowm> I think I was trying out additional changes at the time.
20141020 09:19:30< fabi> Is it hard to make a mainlaine campaign uploadable to the add-on server?
20141020 09:19:58< shadowm> You'd need `s/add-ons/campaigns/g` everywhere, so possibly yes.
20141020 09:20:07< shadowm> Er, in paths, to be specific.
20141020 09:20:25< shadowm> Also dropping the leading tilde.
20141020 09:20:26< fabi> Yeah, I see.
20141020 09:20:28< vultraz> shadowm: I assume pseudoclasses inherit from the base?
20141020 09:21:08< vultraz> eg, merging the lines specified will make them specify to all states, with the (currently) 399 overriding the active?
20141020 09:21:34< shadowm> vultraz: Yes.
20141020 09:22:15< shadowm> Note that this does not hold true if you have a:hover { color: #fff; } followed by a { color: #000; }
20141020 09:22:37< shadowm> The first selector has greater specificity than the second so it still wins.
20141020 09:23:08< shadowm> So what you said only really holds true when starting with a blank slate and properties set to their defaults.
20141020 09:23:32< shadowm> Not all defaults inherit from ancestors either.
20141020 09:24:10< shadowm> i.e. obviously a starts with a discrete color value rather than inheriting from its ancestors.
20141020 09:25:46< fabi> can someone reproduce https://gna.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=22837 ?
20141020 09:26:33< shadowm> Anyway, later.
20141020 09:27:49< irker817> wesnoth: Charles Dang website:master 853ba0e9fdae / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Cleaned up some duplicity with the download button http://git.io/QkRDSg
20141020 09:29:46< fabi> shadowm: Is http://shadowm.ai0867.net/westin-test/template.html the latest? The screenshots are all still the small version.
20141020 09:31:46< vultraz> It isn't
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20141020 09:31:57< vultraz> http://www.wesnoth.org/start/1.12/template.html
20141020 09:32:12< fabi> Thank you
20141020 09:32:35< vultraz> shadowm and I are working on some different shots/shot orders, though
20141020 09:32:43< vultraz> but that is only on his machine
20141020 09:36:53< Ravana_> fabi: reproduced for white mage, but not for anything else. btw mermaid siren isn't even supposed to illuminate(or show that halo) http://puu.sh/cjgbF/fd41ac433d.jpg
20141020 09:37:20< Ravana_> checked files and white mage is missing halo=halo/illuminates-aura.png
20141020 09:38:21< fabi> Ravana_: Thank you. But it seems that the White Mage simply is not an "eluminator".
20141020 09:38:35< fabi> The unit is able to cure and heal.
20141020 09:38:49< Ravana_> true, so there is nothing to fix
20141020 09:39:01< Ravana_> from what I can see
20141020 09:39:02< fabi> Indeed. The reporter just confused the units.
20141020 09:40:34< fabi> Same for the Mermaid Siren. It is also not supposed to enlighten anything.
20141020 09:40:37< fabi> Crazy.
20141020 09:46:24< fabi> Is it okay to close "invalid" bug reports immediately?
20141020 09:47:53< Ravana_> mage of light actually is supposed to, that is bottom left on image
20141020 09:48:07< Ravana_> but might be confusion with names indeed
20141020 09:51:11< fabi> :-)
20141020 10:07:46< zookeeper> what is this about halos?
20141020 10:08:56< zookeeper> they're all correct in 1.11.17.
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20141020 10:26:11< iceiceice> regarding android port brouhaha:
20141020 10:26:25< iceiceice> what is going to happen to 1.8 servers after 1.12 is released?
20141020 10:26:34< iceiceice> do we plan to retire 1.8 mp and add-on servers?
20141020 10:27:31< iceiceice> if so, then maybe we can send google a letter saying that alep's port is the new "official" port?
20141020 10:27:55< iceiceice> who knows if it will help...
20141020 10:27:58< iceiceice> just a thouht
20141020 10:28:01< iceiceice> *thought
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20141020 13:37:31< mattsc> Is there a way to produce a start-of-scenario save from a replay of that scenario (if you don’t have one for the previous scenario)?
20141020 13:39:56< mattsc> fabi: specifically, how did you do that for LoW S14?  I might have some time, in little chunks, to playtest that today.
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20141020 13:48:08< mattsc> zookeeper: do you want to look into any of the other UtBS bugs?  It doesn’t look like Alarantalara will get around to it in time.
20141020 13:52:39< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah i guess, i already looked at the WML for the #22799 and rolled my eyes at it
20141020 13:52:56< gfgtdf> anyone here able to test whether  something compiles on linux with boost  1.44, 1.45, 1.46 or 1.47 ?
20141020 13:53:09< mattsc> zookeeper: 9.9 
20141020 13:53:31< mattsc> let me know if you want me to look into any of them specifically (otherwise I’ll assume that you will)
20141020 14:02:05< zookeeper> okay
20141020 14:02:22< mattsc> thanks
20141020 14:03:16< mattsc> btw, I did a quick test of the reported illumination bug and found no problems as well
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20141020 14:55:37< mattsc> fabi: never mind; I actually have a save from my own last play-through from July 2013.  I thought that wasn’t going to load any more, but it does.  Must have been some intermediate version(s) of 1.11 when that didn’t work because I am pretty sure that I have tried.
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20141020 15:26:02< mattsc> fabi:  ugh!
20141020 15:27:06< mattsc> We really need somebody to do a full play through of LoW, on both SP and MP.  I’ve just been skipping through scenarios in SP mode and while some of the old bugs are fixed, there are a ton of new problems, some more serious than others.
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20141020 15:27:59< mattsc> For example, S10 Cliffs of Thoria does not load at all, because there is a typo (Guardsmen instead of Guardsman).
20141020 15:28:21< mattsc> Same scenario: starting positions of units are wrong (that also happens in other scenarios)
20141020 15:28:49< mattsc> Same scenario: the AI plays all sides (also happens in at least one more scenario)
20141020 15:29:47< mattsc> And while all of those are easy enough to fix once we know about them, we won’t know how many more there are until somebody has done a full playthrough with fixes along the way.
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20141020 15:33:21< mattsc> fabi, all: to be honest, I now think we should ifdef out Low for 1.12.0 *unless* someone has the time to play through it within the next week (and I, for one, won’t have the time to do that on that timescale)
20141020 15:50:53< mattsc> … oh, and bring it back for 1.12.1, I do believe we have enough time for that
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20141020 16:07:20< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: I still can't debug that wstring error properly.
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20141020 16:07:40< loonycyborg> Like I compile binary with debug symbols and then gdb happily ignores them
20141020 16:08:01< loonycyborg> but it doesn't happen under some circumstances
20141020 16:08:33< loonycyborg> and if it doesn't happen istream_fix makes it finally work
20141020 16:09:21< loonycyborg> and no idea what your issue with boost version is anyway
20141020 16:10:07< loonycyborg> mixing boost version is bad idea, don't try it. But it's not needed in practice either
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20141020 16:18:05< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i never said i want to mixup boost versions
20141020 16:18:46< loonycyborg> all my builds currently use boost 1.55 or 1.56
20141020 16:19:16< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: so you testes my istream fix branch and it worked?
20141020 16:19:28< loonycyborg> yes
20141020 16:19:46< loonycyborg> with same build environment I use for releases
20141020 16:20:35< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: ok i think i'll merge it soon, but i'd be happy if someone who has boost < 1.48 coudl veryfy that it compiles on that version too.
20141020 16:20:39< loonycyborg> wstring conversion bug doesn't happen if I start wesnoth from wesnoth root with cmd.exe
20141020 16:21:01< loonycyborg> if I start it from any other dir it happens
20141020 16:21:11< loonycyborg> if I start it with a file manager it happens
20141020 16:22:08< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: wait, if you start wesnoth from another dir maybe it just looks for teh data in that dir and not in teh installation dir ?
20141020 16:22:36< loonycyborg> irrelevant, it's not it failing to find a dir
20141020 16:22:53< loonycyborg> it can auto-detect the dir
20141020 16:23:02< loonycyborg> maybe there's a bug in auto-detect code
20141020 16:23:06< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: how shoudl it be able to do that ?
20141020 16:23:21< loonycyborg> depends on os
20141020 16:23:29< loonycyborg> on linux it checks proc/self/exe
20141020 16:23:41< loonycyborg> afaik on windows it does nothing
20141020 16:23:47< loonycyborg> but maybe it changed
20141020 16:23:59< gfgtdf> on windows it just checks teh wokring directory i think.
20141020 16:24:10< loonycyborg> yup
20141020 16:24:38< loonycyborg> but if you run it with file manager
20141020 16:24:49< loonycyborg> working directory is where the file is
20141020 16:24:58< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: the normal windows explorer.exe ?
20141020 16:25:05< loonycyborg> no
20141020 16:25:07< loonycyborg> total commander
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20141020 16:32:46< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: and why how exactly do you know its a wstring conversion bug ?
20141020 16:33:01< loonycyborg> from the error message?
20141020 16:33:40< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: why is teh error message ?
20141020 16:34:12< loonycyborg> Eh?
20141020 16:34:23< gfgtdf> s/why/what
20141020 16:34:51< loonycyborg> I'm having the same issue as penacdragon
20141020 16:34:56< loonycyborg> or how
20141020 16:35:00< loonycyborg> is his nick spelled
20141020 16:35:30< loonycyborg> exactly same stderr.txt
20141020 16:40:12< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: debian vm on jenkings is using boost 1.49
20141020 16:40:36< loonycyborg> some gentoo builds also use lower boost versions
20141020 16:40:46< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: for linux ?
20141020 16:40:56< loonycyborg> because higher ones don't work with lower version gccs
20141020 16:40:57< loonycyborg> yes
20141020 16:42:44< loonycyborg> oh wait nwm, even gcc 4.4 is using boost 1.55
20141020 17:09:33< zookeeper> durr...
20141020 17:09:37< zookeeper> message= _ "Aaughh!"
20141020 17:09:38< zookeeper> message= _ "Gaaghh!"  # wmllint: no spellcheck
20141020 17:09:52< zookeeper> "Aaughh!" passes the spellchecker, but "Gaaghh!" doesn't?
20141020 17:19:42< zookeeper> wtf. i started UtBS, and then :cl'd to another scenario... and i end up in a game lobby?
20141020 17:19:53< zookeeper> with a master build from yesterday
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20141020 17:28:52< zookeeper> for whomever it may concern: UtBS eftboren had a problem where someone thought [set_variable] round=0 would turn the value into an int, a mistake which got ported to trunk in ef5905
20141020 17:30:33< zookeeper> of course, i noticed that _after_ i had refactored the relevant code, so now i'm not sure whether to commit the new code which might naturally have new bugs in it, or to just fix that buggy line and keep the eyeroll-worthy code structure...
20141020 17:32:06< loonycyborg> do both?
20141020 17:33:07< zookeeper> first in master and latter in 1.12?
20141020 17:33:15< zookeeper> sure, might be safest that way
20141020 17:38:01< zookeeper> oh. huh, nevermind all of the above, round=0 works correctly after all.
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20141020 18:07:52< zookeeper> ...well, at least said commit seems to be responsible for the breakage anyway, just not for that simple reason i suspected
20141020 18:09:37< mattsc> zookeeper: thanks for working on this and for the updates!
20141020 18:09:46< zookeeper> nevermind again, it's not that commit. i guess i should actually look at things before commenting.
20141020 18:10:04< mattsc> it’s more entertaining this way though  :P
20141020 18:11:54< zookeeper> ah, got it, i think
20141020 18:12:18< zookeeper> it's db8c60
20141020 18:12:32< zookeeper> protip: don't move large pieces of code into a nested event with delayed_variable_substitution=no
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20141020 18:17:24< iceiceice> gfgtdf:
20141020 18:17:38< iceiceice> i dont think any boost versions older than 1.53 are available in linux repos right now
20141020 18:17:50< iceiceice> i found 1.44 for download on sourceforge,
20141020 18:17:51< iceiceice> http://sourceforge.net/projects/boost/files/boost/1.44.0/
20141020 18:17:58< iceiceice> but i actually have on idea how to install this, or make scons use it
20141020 18:18:12< iceiceice> *no idea
20141020 18:20:53< iceiceice> i think its ok to increase all to 1.48 anyways?
20141020 18:24:36< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i committed teh 1.44 workaround in my pr, also  dont even now if tje originlal code doesnt work on 1.44
20141020 18:28:31< iceiceice> hmm i just read this,
20141020 18:28:33< iceiceice> http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/659
20141020 18:28:48< iceiceice> it might be that we can make travis build with mingw also/
20141020 18:28:52< iceiceice> idk if its helpful
20141020 18:29:16< iceiceice> it even says we can get an OS X vm somehow
20141020 18:30:33< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but i believe we still only have ~4 jobs at the same time ?
20141020 18:30:44< iceiceice> yeah
20141020 18:30:50< iceiceice> probably we dont want more i guess
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20141020 18:35:47< gfgtdf> i get "Failed connect to github.com:443; No error" whe i want to push but i can commect to teh webpage easili
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20141020 18:36:04< gfgtdf> someone knows what i could do?
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20141020 18:46:16< iceiceice> ok i think i can compile with old boost now
20141020 18:46:40< iceiceice> there are some scons options, im not sure if i use them right though
20141020 18:47:24< gfgtdf> iceiceice: what do yo mean by 'old' ?
20141020 18:47:37< iceiceice> i downloaded boost 1.44.0
20141020 18:47:41< iceiceice> and i told scons to use it
20141020 18:48:03< iceiceice> and it seems to be doing it, it made some kind of -I argument to clang that seems to refer to the boost 1.44 files
20141020 18:48:25< iceiceice> and now my ccache all has to be regenerated
20141020 18:48:40< iceiceice> is there any easy way to know what boost version i have/
20141020 18:48:44< iceiceice> after i finish compiling the game?
20141020 18:48:55< iceiceice> does it output boost version on CL?
20141020 18:50:39< gfgtdf> iceiceice: i don't think so
20141020 18:55:47< iceiceice> hmmmm
20141020 18:55:49< iceiceice> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2907882/using-concurrently-2-versions-of-boost
20141020 18:59:39< iceiceice> so i guess we aren't supposed to have e.g. iostream 1.34 and filesystem 1.44 at the same time
20141020 19:04:31< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: btw, I saw boost.locale stuff is done in a static constructor
20141020 19:04:41< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: y thats true
20141020 19:04:45< loonycyborg> this could result in weird bugs
20141020 19:04:54< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: why do you think that ?
20141020 19:05:07< loonycyborg> there's absolutely no guarantee on order in which different static constructors are executed
20141020 19:05:45< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: y i know, are there any static constructors that use io ?
20141020 19:05:48< loonycyborg> You shouldn't have any code that could depend on other classes there
20141020 19:06:20< loonycyborg> or any code that other stuff with static constructors could depend on
20141020 19:07:18< loonycyborg> No idea, if there isn't it's only matter of time before one appears..
20141020 19:12:05< iceiceice> damn im still compiling with 1.54 i guess
20141020 19:15:26< iceiceice> loonycyborg: does the "boostdir" / "boostlibdir" arguments to scons work to override my system-installed boost libs?
20141020 19:15:39< iceiceice> or is it only intended for non-linux
20141020 19:15:49< loonycyborg> works on linux too
20141020 19:15:56< iceiceice> hmm
20141020 19:16:05< loonycyborg> I use them to try with different boost versions
20141020 19:16:16< loonycyborg> also boost_suffix
20141020 19:16:19< iceiceice> hmm im still getting 1.54 when i try this
20141020 19:16:25< iceiceice> what does boost_suffix do?
20141020 19:16:36< loonycyborg> makes it use right lib
20141020 19:17:00< loonycyborg> boost_suffix=-gcc45_1_55_0
20141020 19:17:04< loonycyborg> or something like that
20141020 19:17:47< iceiceice> am i supposed to compile boost before hand?
20141020 19:17:53< iceiceice> or will it just work from the sources
20141020 19:18:07< loonycyborg> compile it
20141020 19:18:20< loonycyborg> then ./b2 install it
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20141020 19:19:28< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master c11efe47c0cd / / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed bug #22799 and improved the related code http://git.io/T3WAsA
20141020 19:19:41< loonycyborg> or even use it without installing
20141020 19:20:04< loonycyborg> boostdir=/home/sergey/src/boost_1_55_0
20141020 19:20:20< loonycyborg> boostlibdir=/home/sergey/src/boost_1_55_0/stage/lib
20141020 19:20:24< loonycyborg> it works for me
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20141020 19:22:15< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 28d2c49a9597 / / (3 files in 3 dirs): Fixed bug #22799 and improved the related code http://git.io/fDui7A
20141020 19:23:44< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master b3488354ccc7 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/05_A_Subterranean_Struggle.cfg: Fixed a comment and commented out a debug message http://git.io/mNOhgQ
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20141020 19:24:46< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 fa55d0a35111 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/05_A_Subterranean_Struggle.cfg: Fixed a comment and commented out a debug message http://git.io/ANpO7A
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20141020 19:25:54< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i addes oem additional debuginfo in the pr https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/305
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20141020 19:26:21< mattsc> zookeeper: cool!  3 down, 2 to go.  :P
20141020 19:27:05< mattsc> (before somebody asks: I’m counting the three parts of #22790 separately)
20141020 19:27:29< loonycyborg> ok
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20141020 19:28:02< zookeeper> shouldn't that then be 3 to go? :x
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20141020 19:28:22< mattsc> I thought we fixed the first one
20141020 19:29:17< mattsc> zookeeper: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/e6198d720
20141020 19:30:02< zookeeper> right
20141020 19:31:40< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: I'll test more tomorrow
20141020 19:37:52< iceiceice> loonycyborg: thanks, i think its working for me now
20141020 19:37:57< iceiceice> (the alternate boost thing)
20141020 19:38:05< loonycyborg> yw
20141020 19:39:33< loonycyborg> wow, Pentarctagon can actually make gdb debug
20141020 19:39:46< loonycyborg> perhaps I have just wrong version of gdb
20141020 19:39:53< loonycyborg> that doesn't match my compiler or something
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20141020 19:47:03< iceiceice> hmm
20141020 19:47:08< iceiceice> i couldnt build current master with boost 1.44
20141020 19:49:05< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/dizayizexi.lua
20141020 19:49:13< iceiceice> got stuck at boost_filesystem.cpp
20141020 19:50:19< gfgtdf> iceiceice: try adding a #define BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION  3 at top of teh fiel befroe any include
20141020 19:52:48< iceiceice> yeah i think that worked
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20141020 19:59:51< zookeeper> mattsc, btw, i know what causes the traveler's ring hydration issue, just gotta think what's the most elegant fix
20141020 20:00:25< iceiceice> gfgtdf: ok i think with that define master works with 1.44
20141020 20:00:44< gfgtdf> iceiceice: you you please say whethe rmy pull also works with 1.44 ?
20141020 20:00:57< iceiceice> yeah i can try one se
20141020 20:00:58< iceiceice> sec
20141020 20:01:02< mattsc> zookeeper: great!  And thanks again for looking into all this.
20141020 20:05:45< zookeeper> ah well, that was easy after all
20141020 20:05:51< iceiceice> gfgtdf: i got two errors:
20141020 20:05:51< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/ivabimotiz.js
20141020 20:06:07< iceiceice> (i did #define BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION 3 on the pr also)
20141020 20:06:43< gfgtdf> iceiceice: and if you replace this line: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/305/files#diff-a03424219939aade3192ff3e761ed89dR626 with teh outcommented below ?
20141020 20:06:52< gfgtdf> the (#if boostversion line)
20141020 20:08:25< iceiceice> ok now it compiles but i get linker errors:
20141020 20:08:27< iceiceice> "undefined reference to `boost::iostreams::file_descriptor::seek(long long, std::_Ios_Seekdir)'"
20141020 20:09:06< gfgtdf> iceiceice: :O and you are sure your dll version of boost iostereams is teh same as teh header version ?
20141020 20:09:34< iceiceice> i was doing this:
20141020 20:09:42< iceiceice> "scons build=release boostlibdir=~/old_boost/boost_1_44_0/stage/lib/ boostdir=~/old_boost/boost_1_44_0/ strict=false
20141020 20:09:42< iceiceice> "
20141020 20:10:23< iceiceice> uhm...
20141020 20:10:36< loonycyborg> iceiceice: what are names of libs in stage/lib?
20141020 20:10:57< iceiceice> libboost_graph.so.1.44.0
20141020 20:11:17< iceiceice> libboost_random.so.1.44.0
20141020 20:11:24< loonycyborg> and look at command lines too
20141020 20:11:26< iceiceice> thers also symlinks floating around there
20141020 20:11:55< loonycyborg> what are -l flags for boost?
20141020 20:12:00< loonycyborg> is there -mt suffix?
20141020 20:12:30< iceiceice> heres more complete output:
20141020 20:12:30< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/kipahidexi.md
20141020 20:13:44< loonycyborg> that link times out for me
20141020 20:13:58< iceiceice> wierd sorry
20141020 20:13:59< iceiceice> this one?
20141020 20:14:00< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/roxukadita.md
20141020 20:14:21< iceiceice> i clicked "edit" so that it would word wrap and i could see more easily, i didnt think that would invalidate the old one though
20141020 20:15:33< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:master b5b97bb57432 / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/02_Across_the_Harsh_Sands.cfg: Fixed the traveler's ring part of bug #22790 http://git.io/LOmzSQ
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20141020 20:17:19< irker838> wesnoth: ln-zookeeper wesnoth:1.12 498c8d2d07ce / data/campaigns/Under_the_Burning_Suns/scenarios/02_Across_the_Harsh_Sands.cfg: Fixed the traveler's ring part of bug #22790 http://git.io/ZLcfSw
20141020 20:17:38< loonycyborg> iceiceice: it seems linker command is correct
20141020 20:17:43< loonycyborg> and compiler command?
20141020 20:18:17< zookeeper> mattsc, i haven't really tested any of this stuff carefully, so if you have some convenient savefiles around and are feeling bored... :P
20141020 20:18:21< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/yibaleyelo.md
20141020 20:19:16< loonycyborg> times out
20141020 20:19:17< mattsc> zookeeper: not for UtBS, I’m afraid…  :|
20141020 20:19:27< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/raw/yibaleyelo
20141020 20:19:48< mattsc> Acroos the Harsh Sands is easy enough to get to though, so maybe I can do some tests tonight
20141020 20:21:12< zookeeper> all right
20141020 20:21:25< loonycyborg> iceiceice: dammit, this site just seems to slow if accessed from my place :/
20141020 20:21:48< iceiceice> can you read it now or is it also dead?
20141020 20:21:59< iceiceice> heres the compiler line:
20141020 20:22:01< iceiceice> "/usr/bin/ccache clang++ -o build/release/filesystem_boost.o -c -std=c++98 -W -Wall -Qunused-arguments -Wno-unknown-warning-option -O2 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -D_X11 -DLOCALEDIR='"translations"' -DHAS_RELATIVE_LOCALEDIR -Ibuild -Isrc -I/usr/include/SDL -I/home/chris/old_boost/boost_1_44_0 src/filesystem_boost.cpp"
20141020 20:22:18< loonycyborg> it seems correct
20141020 20:22:40< loonycyborg> unless if there's a typo somewhere
20141020 20:23:00< iceiceice> i managed to compile master with the same scons command
20141020 20:23:36< loonycyborg> you're building some other branch now?
20141020 20:23:46< iceiceice> i tried to build gfgtdf's branch
20141020 20:23:49< iceiceice> istream_fix
20141020 20:23:52< loonycyborg> maybe try to rm -rf build
20141020 20:25:05< iceiceice> ok i did this
20141020 20:25:13 * zookeeper doesn't find a comment like this very helpful:
20141020 20:25:14< zookeeper> #TODO I don't get what is done here any why.
20141020 20:25:15< iceiceice> its running throuh ccache pretty quick
20141020 20:25:33< iceiceice> i get same linker error
20141020 20:26:33< iceiceice> loonycyborg: the exact thing i am compiling is,
20141020 20:26:35< iceiceice> this branch,
20141020 20:26:36< iceiceice> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/305/files#diff-a03424219939aade3192ff3e761ed89dR626
20141020 20:26:46< iceiceice> with #if 0 replaced with the test just below it (commented)
20141020 20:26:57< iceiceice> and, #define BOOST_FILESYSTEM_VERSION 3 at the top fo the file
20141020 20:27:57< loonycyborg> linker error involves iostreams
20141020 20:28:06< loonycyborg> you sure you have that lib in stage/lib?
20141020 20:29:07< mattsc> zookeeper: that bit of code seems somewhat messed up though
20141020 20:29:35< zookeeper> mattsc, well i know what it's for, but the whole methodology for the mobilization thing is rather outdated now
20141020 20:29:39< loonycyborg> double check all paths in compiler and linker command for typos etc
20141020 20:29:39< mattsc> which is not meant to say that that comments is useful
20141020 20:29:53< iceiceice> it looks like there is no "seek" member defined in iostreams::file_descriptor in boost 1.44:
20141020 20:29:54< iceiceice> http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_44_0/libs/iostreams/doc/index.html
20141020 20:29:55< mattsc> right
20141020 20:30:19< loonycyborg> and wesnoth uses it?
20141020 20:30:24< loonycyborg> or boost?
20141020 20:30:36< loonycyborg> It could mean mismatch between libs and headers
20141020 20:30:58< zookeeper> mattsc, enemy groups are spawned as guardians which are immune to dehydration (as well as being guardians, duh), until some conditions are met at which point they're mobilized... and for some reason someone decided the units should be recreated at that point rather than just removing their guardianness
20141020 20:31:12< iceiceice> oh hmm
20141020 20:31:14< zookeeper> mattsc, what it really needs is the entire enemy spawn/mobilization thing to be rewritten :P
20141020 20:31:18< iceiceice> i cant find lib_iostream in my stage folder
20141020 20:31:38< iceiceice> i thought i download all of boost 1.44...
20141020 20:31:43< mattsc> zookeeper: right.  It
20141020 20:31:52< iceiceice> also i have iostream headers...
20141020 20:32:00< mattsc> ’s very likely that nobody will object if you choose to do so
20141020 20:32:07< iceiceice> in boost_1_44_0/boost/
20141020 20:32:36< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah i thought so :P
20141020 20:32:55< loonycyborg> ./b2 should have made libboost_iostreams*
20141020 20:33:22< iceiceice> oh
20141020 20:33:25< iceiceice> i think i did ./bjam
20141020 20:33:27< iceiceice> not ./b2
20141020 20:33:46< iceiceice> i guess i didn't compile this correctly?
20141020 20:34:01< iceiceice> i did ./bootstrap.sh and then ./bjam because that was what it made
20141020 20:35:02< loonycyborg> ./b2 and ./bjam is the same thing
20141020 20:35:24< loonycyborg> it should have made libboost_iostreams
20141020 20:35:37< loonycyborg> try ./b2 --with-iostreams
20141020 20:35:57< iceiceice> ok
20141020 20:36:01< iceiceice> i got some kind of fatal error i didnt notice,
20141020 20:36:11< iceiceice> boost was making a ton of "definition not used" warnings
20141020 20:36:21< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/ebovetuyis.pl
20141020 20:36:31< iceiceice> do i need to have a bz library somewhere or something?
20141020 20:37:55< iceiceice> oh its because i dont have threading on i guess
20141020 20:39:21< iceiceice> ok it looks like its skipping a ton of libraries because it cant compile boost.thread
20141020 20:41:02< iceiceice> ok i think i know now,
20141020 20:41:10< iceiceice> i was compiling with gcc 4.9, which i installed recently,
20141020 20:41:19< iceiceice> it apparently has some kind of define that blocks boost thread or something
20141020 20:41:32< iceiceice> http://hastebin.com/nirezideyo.cs
20141020 20:41:40< iceiceice> im going to try to compile boost with clang isntead i guess
20141020 20:41:51< iceiceice> now i think its working
20141020 20:42:50< iceiceice> *the boost compile seems to be making thread now
20141020 20:42:57< iceiceice> idk if wesnoth will now work
20141020 20:44:40< mattsc> iceiceice: I compiled boost a couple days ago when I added libboost_filesystem.  I can look up what I did.
20141020 20:44:52< mattsc> I think it was only a couple commands on the CL.
20141020 20:45:10< iceiceice> mattsc: i normally dont ahve to do anything, just "sudo apt-get update libboost-all-dev" or something
20141020 20:45:28< iceiceice> this is only because i'm trying to use old boost
20141020 20:45:59< mattsc> iceiceice: I mean: I did it using bootstrap and bs, I can look up the exact syntax I used if you want me to
20141020 20:46:09< mattsc> s/bs/b2
20141020 20:50:58< iceiceice> mattsc: did you build boost 1.44?
20141020 20:51:03< iceiceice> i'm basically getting the same error as this guy:
20141020 20:51:03< iceiceice> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8297652/error-boost-disable-threads
20141020 20:51:07< zookeeper> mattsc, so i'll let you know when i've done something to the enemy dehydration, better wait for that before spending time testing anything
20141020 20:51:37< mattsc> iceiceice: no, I did not.  It was 1.54  (which I know you can build in different ways, that’s not the point I am trying to make)
20141020 20:52:00< mattsc> so if you think it is a version specific problem, then I probably cannot help
20141020 20:52:25< mattsc> (I know that I did not build 1.55 because there’s some sort of problem with it)
20141020 20:52:57-!- Coffee_irc [~david@ppp118-210-90-49.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #wesnoth-dev
20141020 20:53:45< mattsc> Hi Coffee_irc 
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20141020 20:56:56< iceiceice> mattsc: it looks like theres a bunch of random fucked up crap with old boost, if i want to compile with a new version of gcc i have to apply various patches to boost...
20141020 20:57:12< iceiceice> im going to try one more patch, then maybe i try to compile with gcc-4.6 instead
20141020 20:57:21< mattsc> iceiceice: that sucks …
20141020 20:57:22< iceiceice> although iirc wesnoth does not compile with gcc 4.6 still
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20141020 20:59:58< Coffee_irc> hi mattsc
20141020 21:00:22< mattsc> Coffee_irc: your name was mentioned here recently  (yesterday, I think)
20141020 21:00:33< Coffee_irc> oh, ok
20141020 21:00:44< mattsc> Coffee_irc: also, do you read the dev-talk mailing list?
20141020 21:00:52< Coffee_irc> I haven't had much time spare to do much lately
20141020 21:01:04< mattsc> I figured.
20141020 21:01:07< Coffee_irc> I still read the list of course
20141020 21:01:29< mattsc> The main question to you is, can we do something about planning mode for 1.12 on the timescale of a week or two?
20141020 21:01:48< Coffee_irc> I've been testing on the 1.12 mp server and there are only occasional glitches
20141020 21:01:57< Coffee_irc> mostly it works
20141020 21:02:18< mattsc> So we can ship it as is, and fix bugs as they are reported?
20141020 21:02:22< Coffee_irc> including the attacks
20141020 21:02:37< Coffee_irc> well, yeah... I think so
20141020 21:02:45< Coffee_irc> I got it to actually crash a few times
20141020 21:02:57< Coffee_irc> when using planning mode
20141020 21:03:04< Coffee_irc> but not when playing solo
20141020 21:03:08< Coffee_irc> even online
20141020 21:03:28< Coffee_irc> takes more than one client and a lot of undoing moves, attacking, recruiting, etc. to crash it
20141020 21:03:48< Coffee_irc> and I think we can fix the problems with the .1 release
20141020 21:03:56< mattsc> That sounds much better than what I understood was going on
20141020 21:04:19< mattsc> Coffee_irc: cool - that’s all I need to bug you about right now then.  :)
20141020 21:04:24< Coffee_irc> I think I've found an area of code that goes out of sync when more than one client is online with planning
20141020 21:04:54< Coffee_irc> to do with removing planned actions
20141020 21:05:29< Coffee_irc> but as I said it doesn't appear to in practise affect much with real play
20141020 21:06:24< shadowm> fabi: Even if marked as Invalid, bugs should only be closed per the rules in http://wiki.wesnoth.org/ReportingBugs#Bug_protocol .
20141020 21:07:01< shadowm> iceiceice: The 1.8 MP server is going to reach its EOL this Thursday 6 am UTC.
20141020 21:07:54< iceiceice> gfgtdf: it looks like the boost bjam tool isn't smart enough to let me tell it to use gcc-4.6
20141020 21:08:07< shadowm> iceiceice: Has either porter even contacted noy in the past? I doubt it.
20141020 21:08:08< iceiceice> im going to give up on compiling old boost version for now
20141020 21:08:28< iceiceice> shadowm: i think the first guy just declared himself to be the "official" port
20141020 21:08:37< iceiceice> pretty unfortunate that he did this actually
20141020 21:08:54< shadowm> And did alep contact anyone at all from our team before publishing his own port?
20141020 21:09:07< iceiceice> i have no idea
20141020 21:09:11< shadowm> iceiceice: "I think". Yep.
20141020 21:09:12< iceiceice> maybe he made forum posts
20141020 21:09:50< shadowm> I'm in the same situation as you. I had considered PMing alep to offer some help with reaching an agreement with noy if none existed already, but if you think about it I know nothing about these ports and it's not my business.
20141020 21:10:04< shadowm> s/with noy/through noy/
20141020 21:10:15< iceiceice> has he ever come on irc?
20141020 21:10:26< shadowm> No idea.
20141020 21:10:41< shadowm> I've certainly not seen anyone asking for help with a legal situation here over the past few days.
20141020 21:10:48< iceiceice> yeah i guess if he actually needs help he will reach out to use more directly
20141020 21:10:52< iceiceice> *us
20141020 21:11:53< shadowm> As for the 1.8 add-ons server, I may decide to terminate it at a later time since unlike the 1.8 server it has a permanent port assignment.
20141020 21:13:40< mattsc> shadowm, vultraz, I forgot who else was involved in that discussion: I talked with Espreon about the Spanish translation PRs.
20141020 21:14:13< shadowm> I don't know why vultraz would be interested in the Spanish translation seeing as how he only speaks Google Translate Spanish, but sure.
20141020 21:14:23< mattsc> He says that he is aware of them, has communicated with the author and that they should have been integrated (he will verify that).
20141020 21:14:39< mattsc> vultraz was one of the people telling me that Espreon is reachable by email etc.
20141020 21:14:58< mattsc> So I will close those PRs sometime soon.
20141020 21:16:40< shadowm> Before anyone asks: yes, the database server is down, give it a minute or so.
20141020 21:17:16< shadowm> And back up again.
20141020 21:17:37< loonycyborg> iceiceice: you definitely can make b2 use a different compiler tool
20141020 21:17:49< loonycyborg> but it requires you to edit user-config.jam
20141020 21:18:30< iceiceice> loonycyborg: i tried to pass it `with-toolset=gcc-4.6`, but it doesn't actually listen to me it seems
20141020 21:18:36< iceiceice> or it says unrecognized,
20141020 21:18:41< iceiceice> for the various permutations of this i have tried
20141020 21:19:18< loonycyborg> using gcc ;
20141020 21:19:18< loonycyborg> using gcc : w64mingw32 : i586-w64-mingw32-g++ ;
20141020 21:19:18< loonycyborg> using gcc : w64mingw64 : x86_64-w64-mingw32-g++ ;
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20141020 21:19:33< loonycyborg> this is I have in $HOME/user-config.jam
20141020 21:19:52< loonycyborg> so I can do toolset=gcc-w64mingw32
20141020 21:20:12< loonycyborg> and it'll use i586-w64-mingw32-g++ to invoke compiler
20141020 21:21:34< iceiceice> is there supposed to be any other stuff in user-config.jam?
20141020 21:21:46< iceiceice> am i supposed to make this myself or is there some tool to generate? i don't have one right now
20141020 21:21:47< loonycyborg> no
20141020 21:21:54< loonycyborg> write yourself
20141020 21:21:57< loonycyborg> with text editor
20141020 21:23:31< iceiceice> ok
20141020 21:23:42< iceiceice> so bootstrap doesnt use the user-config.jam, but maybe b2 does?
20141020 21:24:40< loonycyborg> yes
20141020 21:24:43< loonycyborg> only b2 uses
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20141020 21:30:33< iceiceice> hmm ok that seems to work,
20141020 21:30:39< iceiceice> its still having trouble finding zlib,
20141020 21:30:46< iceiceice> but otherwise i think its almost working
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20141020 21:51:45< iceiceice> ok its now working,
20141020 21:51:52< iceiceice> can compile and run just fine
20141020 21:51:58< iceiceice> gfgtdf, loonycyborg : ^
20141020 21:52:10< loonycyborg> cool
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20141020 22:56:00< gfgtdf> iceiceice: ty for these tests.
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20141020 23:14:15< irker838> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master aa0ec207e3cb / src/ (9 files): dump library versions also, when using `wesnoth -v` http://git.io/BCuUnA
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 21 00:00:08 2014