--- Log opened Tue Oct 21 00:00:08 2014
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20141021 00:16:09< irker838> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master e9fdef9bd313 / src/ (font.cpp wesnoth.cpp): fixup version reports http://git.io/nPJqqg
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20141021 00:42:23< mattsc> zookeeper: I played around with Across the Harsh Sands a little.
20141021 00:42:46< mattsc> Issue #1 is fixed by reverting that commit
20141021 00:43:32< shadowm> There are issues with UtBS S2? I was just playing that scenario.
20141021 00:43:45< mattsc> Issue #3 (in bug #22790, I mean): I cannot reproduce this.  I put a bunch of bandits out there on Side 2 and they seemed to loose 4 HP as they should.
20141021 00:43:57< mattsc> shadowm: http://gna.org/bugs/?22790
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20141021 00:46:31< mattsc> Issue #2 might or might not be fixed.  The problem is that I do not know how it is supposed to work, but most of the “symptoms” described in the report still exist.  For example, resting in oases does not heal the unit.  Also, it is healed a little by the ring on the turn the ring is picked up, but then not any more.
20141021 00:46:41< mattsc> I do not know whether those are features or bugs.
20141021 00:46:57< mattsc> My best guess would be that the former is a bug, the latter a feature.
20141021 00:48:41< shadowm> Depends on what kind of healing you expect.
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20141021 01:05:20< shadowm> vultraz: http://public.localhost:8888/start/1.12/template.html refresh etc.
20141021 01:05:29< shadowm> Also expect slowness because I'm busy.
20141021 01:05:55< vultraz> Not available
20141021 01:06:01< shadowm> Ahahahahaha.
20141021 01:06:06< vultraz> Obviously
20141021 01:06:14< vultraz> Why the hell did you give me a localhost address?
20141021 01:06:31< shadowm> Because that's the URL I use here and I forgot to substitute my IP before pasting it.
20141021 01:06:35< shadowm> http://186.11.8.172:8888/start/1.12/template.html#general
20141021 01:06:46< shadowm> Also forgot to drop the fragment specifier.
20141021 01:07:58< shadowm> Also, here's an issue we need to address before freezing.
20141021 01:08:22< shadowm> The announcement is currently time-bound in that you won't know what "As the year comes to an end" means after this year.
20141021 01:08:52< shadowm> We need to bring back the announcement date in some way.
20141021 01:09:10< shadowm> Preferably a visible way, at the beginning.
20141021 01:09:38< vultraz> Hm
20141021 01:09:40< vultraz> True, true
20141021 01:11:53< vultraz> Only problem is that the ends/begins bit works well
20141021 01:12:21< shadowm> Nobody said we needed to get rid of "as the year comes to an end".
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20141021 01:15:45< mattsc> shadowm: “As Year MMXIV comes to an end …”
20141021 01:15:52< vultraz> Stick a date at the beginning
20141021 01:15:58< vultraz> Like in press releases
20141021 01:16:09< vultraz> October 2014: As the year..
20141021 01:25:58< vultraz> shadowm: italicize it, though
20141021 01:31:44< shadowm> vultraz: F5
20141021 01:34:24< vultraz> Good
20141021 01:38:19< shadowm> Screenshots?
20141021 01:39:47< vultraz> Good
20141021 01:40:00< shadowm> Do we need more?
20141021 01:40:05< shadowm> If so, please specify.
20141021 01:40:22< vultraz> I'm thinking maybe getting rid of the UI shot was a mistake
20141021 01:40:32< vultraz> But there's no place for it
20141021 01:44:27< vultraz> shadowm: maybe restore th UI to general and another UMC shot in Content?
20141021 01:44:33< vultraz> it seems like it's missing something
20141021 01:52:34< nurupo> shadowm: does wesnoth go to google summer of code summit?
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20141021 02:18:50< mattsc> nurupo: yes, I think happygrue and thunderstruck are going
20141021 02:19:11< mattsc> as in, I know two people are going, and I think those are the two
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20141021 02:38:32 * shadowm knows literally nothing about this.
20141021 02:40:03< shadowm> vultraz: There's no room for the UI screenshot in General.
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20141021 02:41:12< vultraz> kill the dwarf?
20141021 02:41:30< vultraz> but in any case a UMC shot MIGHT be useful..
20141021 02:41:31< vultraz> but
20141021 02:41:33< vultraz> eh 
20141021 02:41:36< vultraz> shadowm: commit the current state please
20141021 02:42:21< shadowm> DO NOT remove the dwarf action shot.
20141021 02:42:26< shadowm> Seriously.
20141021 02:42:54< vultraz> ok
20141021 02:43:00< vultraz> then scratch the UI
20141021 02:43:04< vultraz> and decide on a UMC shit
20141021 02:43:06< vultraz> er
20141021 02:43:08< vultraz> shot
20141021 02:43:20< vultraz> if we want UMC shit just go to LoTi
20141021 02:44:00< shadowm> No.
20141021 02:44:22< vultraz> ok
20141021 02:44:29< vultraz> no umc shot? then we're done
20141021 02:44:59< shadowm> No.
20141021 02:45:28< vultraz> god dammit commit please
20141021 02:46:27< shadowm> Why?
20141021 02:46:55< vultraz> I'm stuck in suspence 
20141021 02:46:56< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master d4d8adca7c74 / start/1.12/template.html: Drop a repeated noun http://git.io/r5xNYg
20141021 02:46:58< vultraz> suspense
20141021 02:46:59< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 899933546023 / start/1.12/template.html: Readd the release date to the intro http://git.io/QJZf9A
20141021 02:47:02< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 63fb76bddab2 / start/1.12/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Replace screenshots again so we can have a thumbnail with a portrait http://git.io/Gsy1Ow
20141021 02:47:05< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 920af9154e88 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: CSS reorder http://git.io/gxQk4Q
20141021 02:47:43< shadowm> I'm going to keep in mind for the future that your swearingness is directly proportional to your suspenseness.
20141021 02:48:09< shadowm> Yes, I'm pretty sure those are words because I added them to my dictionary just now.
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20141021 02:50:16< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 1f308afff425 / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Force vertical scrollbar http://git.io/7qKxnQ
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20141021 02:54:25< shadowm> The w.o copy is updated too.
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20141021 03:03:51< vultraz> When are you going to deal with the thumb css?
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20141021 03:13:38< vultraz> Mobile version is fine
20141021 03:13:49< vultraz> start/1.12/template.html is updated, start/1.12 is not, BTW
20141021 03:17:14< shadowm> vultraz: Only the first matters right now. It'd be stupid if I regenerated the translations for *every single commit* right now.
20141021 03:17:14< shadowm> *on
20141021 03:17:14< shadowm> There is no mobile version.
20141021 03:17:14< vultraz> Meaning it looks fine on mobile
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20141021 04:44:45< nurupo> mattsc: nice, don't know any of them though :)
20141021 04:59:13< shadowm> Okay, I've rewritten the thumbnails CSS at last.
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20141021 04:59:39< shadowm> Thus enabling me to make them correctly centered on small screens without more kluges.
20141021 05:06:49< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 2f4fd92b33df / start/1.12/styles/westin.css: Rewrite thumbnails CSS, thus purging the last bit of glamdrol http://git.io/W5stSQ
20141021 05:06:49< shadowm> > 1 file changed, 27 insertions(+), 27 deletions(-)
20141021 05:06:49< shadowm> Sure.
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20141021 05:17:47< shadowm> vultraz: Shouldn't "bug fixes" have a hyphen in the intro?
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20141021 05:35:52< c74d> shadowm: “bug fix” is commonly used and accepted. I would still say “bug-fix”, though.
20141021 05:39:21< zookeeper> mattsc, WRT issue #2: i made it so that picking up the ring heals the unit of dehydration (it does, right? not sure about the status icon, though) and after that the unit will be exempt from all (de/re)hydration effects.
20141021 05:39:29< zookeeper> ...or rather, that was the intent
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20141021 06:08:33< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master ece69a4d4b5e / start/1.12/template.html: Set viewport width to device width on mobile http://git.io/vuic3A
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20141021 06:14:19< vultraz> shadowm: is w.o updated?
20141021 06:17:02< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 61b3e9c35668 / start/1.12/Makefile: Set the lang attribute for language list items on the footer http://git.io/8WGZUw
20141021 06:17:31< vultraz> Everything looking good
20141021 06:19:23< shadowm> vultraz: Now it is.
20141021 06:30:40< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master d211cd5df3fa / start/1.12/template.html: Hyphen for 'bug fixes' http://git.io/eRxHtA
20141021 06:43:23< mattsc> zookeeper: in the test I did, the dehydration icon was removed and attacks reset. but the HP remained as they were.
20141021 06:44:26< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah you have to get the HP back via normal healing
20141021 06:45:17< mattsc> zookeeper: okay - it results in the somewhat counterintuitive behavior that when you move the unit with the ring into an oasis, and another unit, the other one will heal 10 HP, while the one with the ring does not.
20141021 06:45:29< mattsc> If that’s intended, then everything’s good, AFAICT
20141021 06:45:51< zookeeper> hrhm
20141021 06:45:52 * zookeeper looks
20141021 06:46:00< shadowm> The other unit is healing 10 HP due to its max HP increasing by that amount, right?
20141021 06:48:26< zookeeper> AFAICT oases just heal all units normally, and the dehydration nor the ring affects that
20141021 06:48:44< shadowm> These are not real oases.
20141021 06:48:46< zookeeper> ...except that these aren't th... yes
20141021 06:49:49 * zookeeper starts over
20141021 06:50:00< zookeeper> AFAICT oases don't heal hitpoints at all, they only prevent dehydration
20141021 06:50:01< mattsc> zookeeper: yes, I’m an idiot; again
20141021 06:50:20< zookeeper> and restore attack power of dehydrated units
20141021 06:50:37< mattsc> I gave Zhul the ring, who’s a healer, and moves the other unit next to her
20141021 06:50:42 * mattsc facepalms
20141021 06:50:42< zookeeper> ah :P
20141021 06:51:10< mattsc> zookeeper: so, yes, as far as I can tell, everything’s working now
20141021 06:51:20< mattsc> you didn’t fix #3 though, did you?
20141021 06:51:27< shadowm> Didn't dehydrated units use to have their HP capped?
20141021 06:51:37< mattsc> which means that I cannot reproduce that one
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20141021 06:53:02< zookeeper> mattsc, i didn't
20141021 06:53:15< zookeeper> that's the thing i said would likely require the bigger rewrite
20141021 06:53:19< shadowm> vultraz: Could you check http://186.11.16.193:8888/start/1.12/template.html#download and tell me whether I should keep pursuing this idea?
20141021 06:54:39< zookeeper> shadowm, used to, yes, but now dehydration only causes regular extra damage at turn start
20141021 06:54:49< shadowm> Ah, okay.
20141021 06:55:14< mattsc> zookeeper: I see.
20141021 06:55:37< mattsc> Well, its way too late for little mattsc by now anyway ...
20141021 06:55:46< mattsc> me go sleep now
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20141021 07:00:19< shadowm> s/pursuing// # as I figured out the cause of an issue with it
20141021 07:03:57< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle website:master 0bdc06cadab0 / start/1.12/ (54 files in 2 dirs): Regenerate catalogues and HTML files http://git.io/2BZj9Q
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20141021 08:05:23< zookeeper> "This is our oasis, and we will water it with your blood!" sounds like a terrible idea sanitation-wise
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20141021 08:14:55 * shadowm only now found out about the existence of :manage.
20141021 08:15:24< shadowm> I wonder why it lists saved games though?
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20141021 08:47:12< vultraz> shadowm: no
20141021 08:47:55< irker838> wesnoth: Ignacio R. Morelle wesnoth:1.12 001283e53991 / RELEASE_NOTES: Purge stale R_N contents http://git.io/vFEnJg
20141021 08:48:14< shadowm> vultraz: So succinct.
20141021 08:48:28< shadowm> That's definitely helpful.
20141021 08:48:33< vultraz> It breaks the whole feel of thepage
20141021 08:48:49< vultraz> And looks like you're hashtagging everything
20141021 08:49:24< shadowm> #growing up makes people mean #seriously #nostalgia
20141021 08:49:33< vultraz> "omg! look at the wesnoth 1.12 announcement #multiplayer "
20141021 08:50:52< vultraz> I also don't know why you adhered to numbers san's suggestion about the hyphen
20141021 08:51:01< vultraz> It looks...disconcerting 
20141021 08:51:14< vultraz> I strongly recommend against it
20141021 08:52:12< shadowm> SIGH.
20141021 08:52:32< shadowm> vultraz: You could've told me that *HOURS AGO*.
20141021 08:52:40< vultraz> I was at the movies
20141021 08:52:45< shadowm> I even asked you specifically.
20141021 08:52:51< shadowm> You also responded about other stuff.
20141021 08:53:12< vultraz> Oh
20141021 08:53:14< vultraz> Sorry
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20141021 09:11:05< shadowm> 06:08:19 <shadowm> But here's the fact -- someone told mattsc that the Content Creators screenshot looked a bit lonely.
20141021 09:11:34< shadowm> You've got less than 24 hours to tell me whether to attempt to fix this issue and with what.
20141021 09:11:55< shadowm> (And yes, I'm inclined to agree with the mystery fellow.)
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20141021 13:19:00< mattsc> shadowm: I understood the comment not to be about the screenshot itself, but about the placement of the text w.r.t the screenshot (as single word appearing underneath it).
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20141021 13:21:08< mattsc> fendrin: hi
20141021 13:21:21< mattsc> did you see my comments on LoW yesterday?
20141021 13:24:57< mattsc> zookeeper: just to follow up on last night, you were able to reproduce issue #3 of bug #22790?
20141021 13:39:24< zookeeper> mattsc, yeah, i think so. it's basically just that guardians are exempt from dehydration (except the one applied when the ogres are first created)
20141021 13:40:22< mattsc> zookeeper: so does that count as a bug or a feature?
20141021 13:41:34< zookeeper> i don't know, it's confusing enough to warrant a fix regardless
20141021 13:42:13< mattsc> k
20141021 13:42:21< zookeeper> i could keep it as-is but just change "guardians" to "units the player doesn't see"... that's roughly what the current one is probably intended to simulate, anyway
20141021 13:43:27< mattsc> okay
20141021 13:45:16< vultraz> mattsc: do you think another screenshot would be amiss?
20141021 13:47:35< mattsc> vultraz: no, not really.  I think it’s good as is.  (Well, much better than good actually.)
20141021 13:49:42< vultraz> mattsc: you contradict yourself
20141021 13:50:11< mattsc> vultraz: I fail to see the problem in that.  ;)
20141021 13:50:18< mattsc> in what way?
20141021 13:50:35< vultraz> > no, a screenshot would not be amiss > it's good as it is
20141021 13:51:59< mattsc> vultraz: hmm, interesting, turns out that I did not know what ‘amiss’ means …  :P
20141021 13:52:48< mattsc> let me try again then
20141021 13:53:05< mattsc> I think it is good as is, but there’d be nothing wrong with adding another screenshot.
20141021 13:53:31< mattsc> However, as Jetrel said yesterday, at some point you just need to call things good too.
20141021 13:53:40< vultraz> true
20141021 13:53:48< vultraz> but I think one more can't hurt
20141021 13:54:02< vultraz> we're probably going to add a cool scene/feature from a UMC
20141021 13:54:13< mattsc> there’s certainly space in the announcement for it
20141021 14:17:57< fendrin> hi mattsc
20141021 14:18:11< mattsc> hi fendrin
20141021 14:18:56< mattsc> fendrin: so, after playing around with it some, I am more unsure about LoW now  :|
20141021 14:19:29< mattsc> In less than half an hour, and just skipping through scenarios with :n and :cl, I found all kinds of serious problems
20141021 14:20:01< mattsc> all of which are easy to fix, but I am wondering what else we are missing without people doing a full playthrough in both SP and MP
20141021 14:24:41< fendrin> mattsc: Okay, what did you discover?
20141021 14:25:49< mattsc> fendrin: check out the logs starting here: 20141020 15:26:02
20141021 14:26:30< mattsc> fendrin: but it’s not so much actually *what* I did discover, but the fact that in such a short time I discovered so many things.
20141021 14:27:00< mattsc> fendrin: also, I think there are things in S14 that would really benefit from us not being limited by the string freeze.
20141021 14:27:12< mattsc> I believe you and I have talked about that before.
20141021 14:31:03< fendrin> mattsc: Yes, we have talked about that before.
20141021 14:32:29< fendrin> mattsc: Did you play the latest revision of the 1.12 branch?
20141021 14:32:52< mattsc> fendrin: yes; I pulled right before I started
20141021 14:33:56< fendrin> mattsc: Okay, so what is the procedure? Disabling it for the friday release?
20141021 14:33:57< mattsc> fendrin: but again, I am not worried about the things that I did find, they are all trivial fixes, but about all the things that I (potentially) did not find
20141021 14:34:24< mattsc> fendrin: well, I’m not sure.  If you ask me, I’d do the following …
20141021 14:34:50< mattsc> Hmm, …
20141021 14:35:27< mattsc> maybe this: turn it into an add-on for now - that will also make it easier for those guys who are setting up the MP game
20141021 14:35:51< mattsc> play test it for real, on both SP and MP (I can do the SP bit if you give me enough time)
20141021 14:36:16< mattsc> then, bring it back into mainline for 1.12.1, which also means we can make string changes
20141021 14:36:48< mattsc> I don’t know; I haven’t thought about it thoroughly yet, because I wanted to hear what others, specifically you, think about this
20141021 14:37:40< mattsc> fendrin: what do you think?
20141021 14:39:25< fendrin> It is so tempting to remove it from mainline. I mean, I like to drop the maintainance of LoW since some time. Making it an add-on and then giving it free for adoption is really worth a thought.
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20141021 14:41:09< fendrin> The question is if it should be removed before the (hopefully) last dev release on friday or after it?
20141021 14:41:56< mattsc> fendrin: yes, that’s what my hmm-ing up there was about …
20141021 14:43:11< mattsc> I don’t know; maybe since people are starting to use it, it would be nice to give them the add-on option right away.
20141021 14:43:30< mattsc> They don’t seem to have much experience with git  (not that they couldn’t learn, but …)
20141021 14:43:51< fendrin> mattsc: The announcement needs to be adjusted. It currently tells the story about greatly enhanced LoW mp.
20141021 14:45:08< mattsc> fendrin: true.  vultraz, shadowm: ^    Do you think it could simply be adjusted a little to say the same thing (which is true, after all), but that for the 1.12.0 release it will only be available as an add-on?
20141021 14:45:31< mattsc> I believe that would be okay.
20141021 14:45:38< vultraz> can we drop NR too? :P
20141021 14:45:50< fendrin> vultraz: Oh, why NR?
20141021 14:46:02< vultraz> bc it's all kinds of bad
20141021 14:46:05< mattsc> vultraz: we’re not dropping LoW.  :)
20141021 14:46:15< mattsc> we’re just not ready yet
20141021 14:46:32< mattsc> and we’re “hindered” by the string freeze
20141021 14:46:48< fendrin> The string freeze is a problem?
20141021 14:47:01< fendrin> I thought LoW 14 would be fine without any string changes.
20141021 14:47:36< mattsc> fendrin: yes, it would be fine without string changes, but I think it could be better.
20141021 14:47:46< mattsc> fendrin: have you actually tried playing S14?  ;)
20141021 14:48:11< fendrin> mattsc: No. What went wrong?
20141021 14:49:13< mattsc> fendrin: nothing went wrong per se, but there’s some “interesting” stuff going on.  You should try.  :P
20141021 14:49:31< mattsc> You can just skip into the scenario for that, you’ll see what I mean.
20141021 14:49:56< fendrin> mattsc: I have of course skiped into the scenario.
20141021 14:50:07< mattsc> fendrin: but specifically concerning the string freeze, I would like to make it a condition that Aldar’s town must not be overrun by the orcs.
20141021 14:50:10< fendrin> mattsc: And was satisfied with the intro.
20141021 14:50:41< mattsc> have you seen the AI recruit one unit per keep and scrolling around the map until you’re all dizzy?
20141021 14:51:11< mattsc> and leaders not moving between keeps as, I think, you set it up to do?
20141021 14:51:18< fendrin> mattsc: Yes, that is in every scenario where the ai has multiple leaders. It is not LoW specific or 14 specific.
20141021 14:51:32< mattsc> fendrin: right ...
20141021 14:51:55< mattsc> fendrin: anyway, a few lines up there is why I think it would be nice to be able to change strings.
20141021 14:52:23< mattsc> otherwise you can just retreat the humans into the forest and hold out there all together.
20141021 14:53:09< mattsc> It’s a minor-ish detail admittedly, so that’d just be an added bonus and not the main argument for delaying until 1.12.1.
20141021 14:53:53< mattsc> fendrin: I’ll be without Internet connection for the next half hour.  I’ll check the logs for your final decision when I get back online.
20141021 14:57:15< mattsc> fendrin: just to add to what I said (I think I partially gave the wrong impression).  It would be nice to do some work with the AI in S14 (and possibly other scenarios), and as with the play testing, I need more time than I have during the next few weeks.  It takes a lot of trial-and-error to get that right.
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20141021 14:58:59< vultraz> shadowm: I agree with mattsc, the content screnshot should be just a tag taller, as to make all of the second paragraph go next to it
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20141021 15:40:40< Sulfur> Huh, in 1.17, if i use the MOVE_UNIT macro to move a unit to a tile on which another unit already sits on, the unit is deleted. The behaviour was not like that in 1.16 (in 1.16 the unit was moved to a nearby free tile then) . Is this intended? (I can not find anything regarding that in the changelog).
20141021 15:44:02< Ravana_> Sulfur: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41084
20141021 15:45:11< Sulfur> Ah, alright. Thanks
20141021 15:45:47< bumbadadabum> mattsc: am I allowed to write lua implementations for commonly used wml macros?
20141021 15:46:01< bumbadadabum> like PUT_TO_RECALL_LIST
20141021 15:46:05< bumbadadabum> idk who to ask for this
20141021 15:47:34< mattsc> bumbadadabum: to make sure that I understand this correctly, you want to turn them into WML tags?
20141021 15:47:39< bumbadadabum> ye
20141021 15:49:05< mattsc> bumbadadabum: in that case, sure, why not.  But before doing that, I’d also ask myself the other way around: why would you do it?
20141021 15:49:15< bumbadadabum> I'm bored
20141021 15:49:33< bumbadadabum> also we're going to learn lua at uni starting next week, so I decided it might be good to refresh that knowledge
20141021 15:50:34< mattsc> bumbadadabum: not saying you shouldn’t, just that replacing a macro by a tag that does exactly the same seems somewhat like a waste
20141021 15:50:50< bumbadadabum> well, it's been done with a lot of macros
20141021 15:51:01< mattsc> so you might want to think about whether you can add (useful) functionality at the same time.
20141021 15:51:04< bumbadadabum> e.g.: TRANSFORM_UNIT, MOVE_UNIT, MOVE_UNIT_FAKE
20141021 15:51:18< bumbadadabum> plus lua is faster than wml
20141021 15:51:27< bumbadadabum> not like that REALLY matters, but still
20141021 15:51:31< mattsc> bumbadadabum: sure
20141021 15:51:32< vultraz> Not to mention a lot of these macros have ugly implementations
20141021 15:51:37< mattsc> right
20141021 15:51:45< vultraz> They bloat savegames
20141021 15:52:14< mattsc> bumbadadabum: you want to take over maintenance of LoW?  :)
20141021 15:52:54< bumbadadabum> uhh
20141021 15:53:03< bumbadadabum> LoW is the campaign I have the least knowledge of
20141021 15:53:46< bumbadadabum> http://pastebin.com/EmxA9gsx
20141021 15:53:59< bumbadadabum> something like this is a lot more elegant than the macro I feel like
20141021 15:54:30< bumbadadabum> would this work?
20141021 15:54:38< bumbadadabum> this is the first Lua I've done in a loooong time
20141021 15:56:06< mattsc> bumbadadabum: just test it ...
20141021 15:56:17< mattsc> (there’s at least one syntax error in it)
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20141021 15:57:01< boucman_work> line 6, parenthesis is incorrect
20141021 15:57:26< mattsc> fendrin: hello again
20141021 15:57:27< bumbadadabum> ah right I can't into coding
20141021 15:58:24< mattsc> fendrin: btw, don’t get me wrong, I think LoW is much improved, I just think it’s not quite there yet (mostly missing playtesting and the bug fixes that go along with that)
20141021 15:59:22< fendrin> hi boucman_work
20141021 15:59:34< fendrin> mattsc: hi
20141021 15:59:44< boucman_work> :)
20141021 16:01:25< fendrin> Does anyone remember "Space Pirat Captian Harlock"?
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20141021 16:08:42< vultraz> !log 853ba0e
20141021 16:08:43< shikadibot> vultraz: Revision 853ba0e (<Anonymous>) on Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970:
20141021 16:08:43< shikadibot> vultraz: <Invalid commit>
20141021 16:08:44< shikadibot> vultraz: Web interface URL: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/commit/853ba0e
20141021 16:10:32< bumbadadabum> ok the (simple) tags I made work completely
20141021 16:11:02< vultraz> fendrin: sounds like something out of Tintin
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20141021 16:12:36< irker852> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 7bb7c8aa8451 / src/scripting/lua.cpp: make lua dofile use our filesystem functions http://git.io/6bpX1w
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20141021 16:22:27< mattsc> fendrin: no, I don’t.  :|
20141021 16:23:10< mattsc> fendrin: just to summarize and make sure that we’re on the same page, do we agree that we delay LoW until 1.12.1?
20141021 16:24:47< mattsc> fendrin: and if we do, two follow-up questions: do you want to turn it into an add-on for this Friday’s release or for the one after that?  And do you want to hand over maintenance before or after 1.12.1?
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20141021 17:14:05< loonycyborg> gfgtdf: startup crash with non-ascii root seems to be fixed with your branch now
20141021 17:14:21< loonycyborg> but I noticed that it always uses english now
20141021 17:14:39< loonycyborg> even if you explicitly tell it to use something else with language dialog
20141021 17:30:59< bumbadadabum> .seen anonymissimus
20141021 17:31:08< bumbadadabum> wesbot: seen anonymissimus
20141021 17:31:21< bumbadadabum> wait rip wesbot
20141021 17:34:19< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i only added some log data t the branch to i think it would be streange if that woudl have fixed something.
20141021 17:34:32< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: is there somethign in teh stderr.txt file ?
20141021 17:35:47< loonycyborg> I just moved to a win7 vm
20141021 17:36:05< loonycyborg> and set up build environment there
20141021 17:36:09< loonycyborg> maybe that
20141021 17:36:12< loonycyborg> or lua fixes
20141021 17:36:45< loonycyborg> nothing unusual in stderr.txt
20141021 17:37:30< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: maybe the translations folder is just missing ?
20141021 17:37:57< loonycyborg> It's always generated by scons for me
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20141021 17:42:27< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i just copied the translation folder from doanloadable wesnoth, and the languages settings dont work for me neigher its always in german
20141021 17:42:53< irker852> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth:master db028708c4cc / data/ (core/macros/utils.cfg lua/wml-tags.lua): Added a lua implementation for FULL_HEAL and PUT_TO_RECALL_LIST http://git.io/YNQUDw
20141021 17:43:06< bumbadadabum> shit
20141021 17:43:10< loonycyborg> for me it's always in english
20141021 17:43:11< bumbadadabum> I meant to push to my personal repo
20141021 17:43:51< bumbadadabum> uhhh
20141021 17:43:56< bumbadadabum> do I revert
20141021 17:44:09< vultraz> why?
20141021 17:44:15< vultraz> if it works and it's done, commit it
20141021 17:44:18< loonycyborg> bumbadadabum: uhh were you able to fix your build issues?
20141021 17:44:30< bumbadadabum> loonycyborg: yes
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20141021 17:44:42< bumbadadabum> the package just had a different name
20141021 17:44:46< loonycyborg> I was too busy at that time to look up the exact spelling of that package
20141021 17:44:47< bumbadadabum> and requires some searching
20141021 17:44:52< bumbadadabum> but I found it
20141021 17:44:57< bumbadadabum> <vultraz> why?
20141021 17:44:57< bumbadadabum> <vultraz> if it works and it's done, commit it
20141021 17:45:16< bumbadadabum> yeah but I wanted E_H and anon to give their opinion on the rewriting of macros first
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20141021 17:45:59< vultraz> why?
20141021 17:46:10< vultraz> plus EH is almost never around
20141021 17:47:23< irker852> wesnoth: Bär Halberkamp wesnoth:master 4c291545fe08 / changelog: Updated changelog http://git.io/tiF3NQ
20141021 17:48:15< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: i just tested a build from 8.8.2014 and i cannot change teh language there eigher, so its not related to new filesystem changes
20141021 17:52:31< gfgtdf> (it could aswell be possible that it nerver worked on msvc.)
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20141021 18:00:10< iceiceice> loonycyborg, gfgtdf: re: english-only,
20141021 18:00:15< iceiceice> i noticed this 2 days ago in the logs,
20141021 18:00:16< iceiceice> http://pastebin.com/pHNMupF3
20141021 18:00:38< iceiceice> i wonder if its a problem with our lib intl dll?
20141021 18:05:58< gfgtdf> iceiceice: could be. im kinda scared to touch the dependecy libraries since they might also depend on each other. (i made some negative experince with traing to update my cairo dll )
20141021 18:06:35< gfgtdf> iceiceice: my local version is called libintl3.dll
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20141021 18:21:18< irker852> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 957fc2a30e33 / / (5 files in 4 dirs): updated Italian translation http://git.io/yt4kdA
20141021 18:21:20< irker852> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 698e6470288f / po/ (wesnoth-ai/it.po wesnoth-lib/it.po wesnoth-utbs/it.po wesnoth/it.po): updated Italian translation http://git.io/tLl8Mg
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20141021 18:35:32< mattsc> iceiceice, gfgtdf: what do the two of you know about bug #22068?  https://gna.org/bugs/?22068
20141021 18:35:52< iceiceice> i dont really know anything anymore about it
20141021 18:36:25< mattsc> That’s the last blocker that I am aware of for which we do not have a proposed solution yet
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20141021 18:37:15< mattsc> and I am not really sure what to do about it …
20141021 18:37:28< mattsc> Well, I am not at all sure what to do about it
20141021 18:38:01< Ivanovic> mattsc: what is the status of the announcement?
20141021 18:38:40< mattsc> Ivanovic: vultraz or shadowm should reply that, but as far as I know it is pretty much done and will be frozen today
20141021 18:38:53< Ivanovic> that is: since i will be on a business trip starting (early) on saturday (so right after tagging) it would be nice if you (or shadowm) could send out the mail to wesnoth-dev and wesnoth-i18n once the announcement should be "final"
20141021 18:39:20< mattsc> Ivanovic: no problem, we can do that
20141021 18:39:56< Ivanovic> https://mail.gna.org/public/wesnoth-i18n/2011-12/msg00012.html
20141021 18:39:57< mattsc> Ivanovic: we need to add one disclaimer that LoW will not be in mainline in 1.12.0 and reintroduced in 1.12.1, but besides that, I think it’s ready.
20141021 18:40:03< Ivanovic> this is what i used for 1.10 as mail
20141021 18:40:28< mattsc> thanks; bookmarked
20141021 18:40:37< Ivanovic> mattsc: okay, that should go into the players_changelog, too
20141021 18:40:45< Ivanovic> and it should already be deactivated for RC2
20141021 18:41:00< Ivanovic> since this is relevant for the debian package which is split by campaign
20141021 18:41:16< mattsc> Ivanovic: I see.  fendrin ^
20141021 18:45:38< mattsc> Ivanovic: when will you be back from that business trip?  As in, when might you be able to tag the next release after that, which I hope will be 1.12.0?
20141021 18:46:42< Ivanovic> i will arrive back in germany on november 1st
20141021 18:46:55< Ivanovic> so in the evening that day i might be able to get a release done (earliest option!)
20141021 18:47:31< mattsc> okay, sounds good; and then you will be gone for quite a while soon thereafter, right?
20141021 18:47:43< mattsc> so we have a relatively small window for 1.12.0?
20141021 18:47:57< Ivanovic> i will be gone for 2.5 weeks starting at the beginning of december
20141021 18:48:23< mattsc> Oh, okay, I thought I was earlier.  Okay, good then.  Thanks.
20141021 18:53:05< mattsc> fendrin: let’s make LoW an add-on for this Friday’s release already then.  The people who want to continue to play it can do so using the add-on can’t they?
20141021 18:53:31< fendrin> mattsc: okay
20141021 18:53:53< mattsc> Also, I would suggest that instead of deleting it, we simply #ifdef it out, so it’s a very simple hack to get it back (which we can publish with the release notes, if we want to)
20141021 18:54:08< mattsc> Does that make sense?  I think that’s correct ...
20141021 18:54:12< fendrin> mattsc: I do not know if you can use savegames from the mainline version when playing an add-on one.
20141021 18:55:17< fendrin> mattsc: Yes, #ifdef DEBUG is what I used for improper MP versions of LoW.
20141021 18:56:30< gfgtdf> mattsc: didnt do researches about http://add-ons.wesnoth.org/ recently, i fixed most of it in master but not in 1.12 becasue i considered it not suitabel for backport at that time. 
20141021 18:58:12< mattsc> fendrin: okay, sounds good; the only problem is that you also have #ifdef DEBUGs in the scenarios themselves which change how they work
20141021 18:58:34< fendrin> mattsc: Yes, I just thougt about that as well.
20141021 19:00:15< mattsc> fendrin: we could add a —with-low flag 
20141021 19:00:38< mattsc> fendrin: btw, will you fix the SP bugs I found yesterday or would you like me to do it?
20141021 19:00:57< mattsc> and what about balancing S14?  Should I suggest changes to you or just make the changes?
20141021 19:01:30< fendrin> We should talk about S14 but I don't mind who does the changes.
20141021 19:01:54< mattsc> fendrin: okay; I’m always happy if you do them  :)
20141021 19:02:06< fendrin> I don't think that a flag works with wml code.
20141021 19:02:23< mattsc> fendrin: ah, hmm, that might be true ...
20141021 19:04:01< mattsc> fendrin: suggested changes to S14 so far: cut gold for player sides way down (to half or less), give AI side a huge amount of gold (could be 10000 even) and use EXPERIMENTAL_AI
20141021 19:04:19< mattsc> After all, the scenario is not supposed to be winnable, right?
20141021 19:04:47< fendrin> mattsc: Do you recognize that the AI has a huge Income per turn?
20141021 19:07:01< mattsc> fendrin: I did not.  D’oh!  And that would have been my alternative suggestion  :P
20141021 19:07:14< fendrin> :-)
20141021 19:08:23< mattsc> okay, good then …
20141021 19:08:41< mattsc> I’ll add the experimental AI for my local version and try again
20141021 19:08:59< mattsc> I got distracted yesterday by the bugs I found in the other scenarios  :)
20141021 19:09:36< mattsc> gfgtdf: I assume that link is supposed to the bug I mentioned?
20141021 19:09:51< mattsc> gfgtdf: “becasue i considered it not suitabel for backport at that time” - how about now?
20141021 19:10:18< iceiceice> mattsc, fendrin: we could add a command line flag though
20141021 19:10:21< iceiceice> thats not too hard
20141021 19:10:24< gfgtdf> mattsc: ye i really wonder how it git transformed into teh addons line, especialy since i cant remember beeing on the page today
20141021 19:11:14< iceiceice> mattsc: its probably not easily backportable iirc,
20141021 19:11:22< iceiceice> the save format is already changed in 1.13 vs 1.12,
20141021 19:11:31< iceiceice> in part to make it easier to fix stuff like this
20141021 19:11:33< gfgtdf> mattsc: the main reason why i didnt want to backport it was that it changes teh wesnothd server protocoll, which is still not suitable in RC1, i don't know whether its posssible do do without
20141021 19:13:55< mattsc> iceiceice, gfgtdf: so what (realistic) options do we have?
20141021 19:14:17< iceiceice> i think that probably we can't fix it,
20141021 19:15:25< iceiceice> i think that before 1.14, i will try to use this code (https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/280) to make unit tests that check that all the save methods work, and put them on travis
20141021 19:16:01-!- stikonas [~gentoo@wesnoth/translator/stikonas] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20141021 19:16:18< mattsc> so we ship 1.12 as is concerning this bug?   (not meant as an argument; just a question making sure I understand things)
20141021 19:16:21< iceiceice> idk there could be a hail mary from someone but i would bet against it :)
20141021 19:16:32< iceiceice> i think we dont really have a choice
20141021 19:16:53< mattsc> okay - can we disable sos in MP?
20141021 19:17:05< mattsc> or at least add a warning message?
20141021 19:17:21< mattsc> or is that the warning message that already appears sometimes?
20141021 19:17:35< iceiceice> we could disable it
20141021 19:17:45< iceiceice> i think maybe you should ask a question in the bugtracker
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20141021 19:17:49< iceiceice> if anyone is still working on it
20141021 19:18:01< iceiceice> and that you want to disable SOS in mp in 1.12 if no one speaks up
20141021 19:18:10< mattsc> okay
20141021 19:18:30< mattsc> I was also going to send another update to the ML tomorrow, I’ll say it there too
20141021 19:19:05< mattsc> shikadibot: seen thunderstruck
20141021 19:19:06< shikadibot> mattsc: The person with the nick thunderstruck last spoke 5d 3h ago.  5d 1h ago they left with the message:
20141021 19:19:19< mattsc> yeah, that’s what I thought
20141021 19:19:53< mattsc> thunderstruck is the only one I’m aware of who might still be working on it.
20141021 19:20:37< gfgtdf> mattsc: i also don't know whether we will be able to fix all filesystem bugs soon
20141021 19:21:31< gfgtdf> mattsc: the probme is that there are some bug which i cannot reprocude because they might (but also might be not) mingw specific so its dificult to fix for me
20141021 19:22:32< gfgtdf> mattsc: the other bug is that that if a fileaccess failed due to invalid utf8 the programm will cose with a 'invalid utf8' message but it wolt el you which string is actualy invaluid.
20141021 19:22:55< iceiceice> hmm so here's a question,
20141021 19:23:14< iceiceice> what if we distribute MSVC builds instead of mingw builds for our main windows installer
20141021 19:23:32< iceiceice> i guess loonycyborg won't like that but in fact MSVC gives a working fstream, and mingw doesnt, right?
20141021 19:23:52< iceiceice> so just the original simple boost filesystem impl should work... ?
20141021 19:24:36< loonycyborg> didn't we fix that problem?
20141021 19:24:40< gfgtdf> iceiceice: but for fstream i already hva  fix which passing boost::filesystem::path to boost::iostream
20141021 19:25:03< gfgtdf> iceiceice: that is my current pr.
20141021 19:25:09< iceiceice> ok
20141021 19:25:14< iceiceice> so wait what bug remains?
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20141021 19:26:47< gfgtdf> iceiceice: some bug about coost comlaining about invalid encodig
20141021 19:26:50< gfgtdf> boost*
20141021 19:27:05< loonycyborg> If it still remains I'll track it later
20141021 19:27:15< iceiceice> what aquileia reported?
20141021 19:27:20< loonycyborg> not sure if it still remains
20141021 19:27:20< iceiceice> *pentarctagon?
20141021 19:27:31< loonycyborg> He said it's fixed for him
20141021 19:28:04< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: in his last opst he reverrted and said it didnt fix for him
20141021 19:28:08< gfgtdf> post*
20141021 19:31:15< loonycyborg> why don't you set up your own build mingw build environment and try to track it down?
20141021 19:32:19< iceiceice> loonycyborg: do you know if it can be reproduced in wine?
20141021 19:32:28< loonycyborg> it can
20141021 19:32:42< loonycyborg> But I can't debug it in wine
20141021 19:33:46< iceiceice> what do you need for debugging, just to get a backtrace?
20141021 19:34:03< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: my plan is to sooner or later switch from msvc to clang to get c++11 features, but that takes it's time.
20141021 19:34:38< iceiceice> loonycyborg: i guess we coudl try to just put one of these "stack walker" objects into the codebase?
20141021 19:34:41< loonycyborg> currently I'm not planning to switching to clang on windows
20141021 19:34:44< iceiceice> so that it gives backtrace on an exception?
20141021 19:34:46< iceiceice> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/691719/c-display-stack-trace-on-exception
20141021 19:34:50< loonycyborg> only to mingw-w64
20141021 19:35:17< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: are tehre much differences between mingw-w64 and normal mingw?
20141021 19:35:30-!- iceiceice [~chris@wesnoth/developer/iceiceice] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20141021 19:35:39< loonycyborg> mainly 64 bit support
20141021 19:35:39< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: im actuayl confused by teh fact that there are 2 mingw versions
20141021 19:35:39< Anakonda> the fact that you can target 64bit windows
20141021 19:35:50< loonycyborg> also some more features
20141021 19:35:54< loonycyborg> look on their site
20141021 19:35:55< Anakonda> and std::tread
20141021 19:36:09< Anakonda> *thread
20141021 19:36:32< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: is there a good profiler for mingw or does mingw has one?
20141021 19:36:49< loonycyborg> I think gprof is ported
20141021 19:38:00< gfgtdf> ok
20141021 19:42:16< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: I was thinking about giving mal-ravanal special animations
20141021 19:42:21< bumbadadabum> *attack animations
20141021 19:42:24< bumbadadabum> and special spell names
20141021 19:42:30< bumbadadabum> to make him more special
20141021 19:42:36< zookeeper> why?
20141021 19:42:42< bumbadadabum> and maybe do that as well with the other lich lords
20141021 19:42:52< bumbadadabum> because there have already been steps taken to make him more like a boss
20141021 19:42:55< bumbadadabum> so why not
20141021 19:43:03< zookeeper> if you want to spend time on that then go ahead
20141021 19:43:19< bumbadadabum> I have nothing better to do
20141021 19:43:53< Ravana_> I guess I need to rethink my filters to not get pinged with each mention of mal-ravanal
20141021 19:44:47< zookeeper> bumbadadabum, sure you do! animating owaec, for one :J
20141021 19:45:01< bumbadadabum> I can't into pixels
20141021 19:45:04< bumbadadabum> only wml
20141021 19:45:34< zookeeper> oh
20141021 19:46:50< zookeeper> well there is one other thing that i've been sorta kinda supposed to have finished done years ago...
20141021 19:46:54< zookeeper> -done
20141021 19:47:14< bumbadadabum> what is it?
20141021 19:47:48< zookeeper> the new fire breath anims for drakes
20141021 19:48:10< bumbadadabum> what's with them?
20141021 19:49:20< zookeeper> gimme a moment, i'll dig up some old WML for them...
20141021 19:52:25< zookeeper> well, no need... the animation macro is in animation-utils.cfg already :P DRAKE_FIRE_ANIM
20141021 19:52:32< zookeeper> it's just not wired into the units
20141021 19:53:28< zookeeper> (it's unrelated to DRAKE_FIRE_ANIM_S, DRAKE_FIRE_ANIM_S_DIAGONAL etc, which are completely different anims)
20141021 19:54:14< zookeeper> basically it's intended to replace the current directional flame sprites with a retro'ish stream of little explosion sprites
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20141021 19:56:14< zookeeper> i'd expect the macro to still work, although the [frame] sequence might need updating, i'm not sure
20141021 19:57:58< zookeeper> so, that would be one job which would be nice to get done, if you feel like doing something like that... the animation itself would probably warrant quite a bit of further fine-tuning, and the flame sprite is just a copy of projectiles/fireball-impact for now
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20141021 20:18:29< gfgtdf> loonycyborg: you have the language bug only on a non-asci wesnothdirecty or always ?
20141021 20:18:53< loonycyborg> always
20141021 20:33:53< bumbadadabum> shikadibot: seen Coffee_irc
20141021 20:33:54< shikadibot> bumbadadabum: The person with the nick Coffee_irc last spoke 23h 28m ago.  21h 26m ago they left with the message: Quit: Konversation terminated!
20141021 20:34:34< bumbadadabum> zookeeper: I might take a look at that
20141021 20:36:04< zookeeper> cool
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20141021 21:57:43< shadowm> mattsc: The mystery fellow clarified the comment to me by PM, yes.
20141021 21:58:28< mattsc> shadowm: cool, thanks for letting me know
20141021 21:58:48< mattsc> (he old me that he had written you with another comment or something)
20141021 21:59:12< shadowm> fendrin, mattsc, vultraz: Could someone give me the gist of the LoW situation for 1.11.18 and 1.12.0 and 1.12.1?
20141021 22:00:02< shadowm> And please for the love of god don't use ambiguous language -- i.e. "disable" and "remove" are *wholly different things*.
20141021 22:01:06< shadowm> Ivanovic: 
20141021 22:01:10< mattsc> shadowm: 1.11.18 - 1.12.0: LoW will be an add-on (disabled in but not removed from mainline) while we play test and fix bugs.
20141021 22:01:36< mattsc> 1.12.1: removed from add-on list and reenabled in mainline
20141021 22:01:44< shadowm> Ivanovic: I can send the email to both lists, no problem with that -- I had planned to do so anyway because translators will need to be aware of some specific things this time.
20141021 22:02:36< shadowm> Ivanovic: But it looks like we won't be freezing it today as I expected, perhaps tomorrow (still in time for RC 2 regardless).
20141021 22:03:35< shadowm> mattsc: Okay, that sounds good. Will you people need help with disabling LoW and creating the stub add-on?
20141021 22:03:58< mattsc> fendrin: could you reply to that ^ ?
20141021 22:04:25< mattsc> fendrin: just the last question as to whether we (=you) need help.
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20141021 22:15:25< iceiceice> shikadibot: seen lipk
20141021 22:15:25< shikadibot> iceiceice: Sorry, I don't know of lipk.
20141021 22:15:26< iceiceice> shikadibot: seen lipkab
20141021 22:15:27< shikadibot> iceiceice: The person with the nick lipkab 1d 4h ago they left with the message: Quit: .
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20141021 23:34:19< shadowm> Rhonda: Any news on wesbot and/or allowing me to load it into shikadibot?
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 22 00:00:29 2014