--- Log opened Fri Nov 21 00:00:06 2014
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20141121 00:49:18< irker090> wesnoth: mattsc wesnoth:master b5f62d0d4c62 / projectfiles/Xcode/Wesnoth.xcodeproj/project.pbxproj: Update Xcode project file http://git.io/dJz6wg
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20141121 01:04:33< irker090> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 925b999b5c78 / src/ (help/help_impl.hpp help/help_topic_generators.cpp scripting/lua_gui2.cpp): add some missing copyright statements http://git.io/3gxJ4g
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20141121 03:35:23< shadowm> loonycyborg: The fact that there is a "wesnoth-1.12-win32.exe" file in now means it's the fixed build? Could've poked me about it.
20141121 03:35:46< shadowm> loonycyborg: Did you verify the fix using my test case? And could you upload the fixed wesnoth.exe to f.w.o?
20141121 03:36:14< shadowm> Also, you probably sould hide or delete the previous version.
20141121 03:37:05< loonycyborg> ah yes, sorry forgot.
20141121 03:37:34< loonycyborg> I was thinking whether I should delete previous one but was distracted by stuff in process :P
20141121 03:37:41< vultraz> 1.12 is the correct one?
20141121 03:37:57< vultraz> Ah yes
20141121 03:37:59< vultraz> I see the date
20141121 03:38:04 * vultraz downloads
20141121 03:38:34< loonycyborg> yes, I keep doing that mistake, because my script makes it 1.x.0, not 1.x
20141121 03:39:11< shadowm> I wonder why it grew 0.2 MiB in size.
20141121 03:39:27< loonycyborg> I was wondering too
20141121 03:39:49< loonycyborg> maybe generic_path gets dropped by linker without it..
20141121 03:40:10< shadowm> Ah yes, that makes sense.
20141121 03:40:59< loonycyborg> I uploaded it to hidden/win
20141121 03:42:31 * shadowm xz's it.
20141121 03:42:59< loonycyborg> hmm exe's size is the same.
20141121 03:43:16< loonycyborg> It was something else
20141121 03:43:19< loonycyborg> hmm
20141121 03:44:02< loonycyborg> actually I remember that I somehow managed to screw up my git checkout at same point
20141121 03:44:18< loonycyborg> and fixed it with git clean
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20141121 03:44:32< loonycyborg> maybe some untracked files ended up released
20141121 03:45:21< loonycyborg> I need to check it again. TortoiseGit really gave me some trouble.
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20141121 03:51:38< shadowm> Fix confirmed, though.
20141121 03:52:15< shadowm> That is, with the standalone wesnoth.exe. There's pretty much no way I'm going to download the installer. :p
20141121 03:52:51< shadowm> Oh gods, my campaign's story text looks so bad with the paragraph breaks issue that's supposedly caused by the obsolete Pango/Cairo libraries.
20141121 03:52:54< shadowm> :(
20141121 03:53:01< vultraz> No shit
20141121 03:53:04< vultraz> Mine too
20141121 03:54:24< shadowm> Are we ever going to get newer versions or are we doomed to witness our prose look like **** on a particular platform forever?
20141121 03:54:33< shadowm> (Rhetorical question.)
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20141121 03:55:27< vultraz> shadowm: btw, have you decided RE EH's announcement edit?
20141121 03:55:51< shadowm> I decided to not use it long ago.
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20141121 04:08:22< vultraz> Good
20141121 04:08:31< vultraz> That's settles
20141121 04:08:33< vultraz> Settled
20141121 04:08:38< vultraz> Should I purge DevFeature1.11 yet
20141121 04:08:40< vultraz> ?
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20141121 04:09:42< shadowm> No.
20141121 04:09:59< iceiceice> what are the biggest known problems at the moment?
20141121 04:10:17< iceiceice> is it just whatever mp issues have been reported?
20141121 04:10:22< shadowm> I don't have any chocolate, for starters.
20141121 04:10:36< shadowm> Do you mean on 1.12.x, or master?
20141121 04:11:13< iceiceice> 1.12
20141121 04:11:29< iceiceice> i also dont have any chocolate :(
20141121 04:12:47< vultraz> I DO have chocolate :D
20141121 04:13:14< shadowm> iceiceice: If you want to learn the unwiedly gna.org markup: https://gna.org/cookbook/?func=detailitem&item_id=236
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20141121 04:13:40< shadowm> Also I hate it when bug reports get meta like that.
20141121 04:13:40< iceiceice> yeah ive seen it before but i have a hard time to remember it when i need it,
20141121 04:13:54< iceiceice> and i know that i can't edit and fix it if i mess it up
20141121 04:13:59< iceiceice> so i'm more likely to steer clear
20141121 04:14:24< shadowm> Bookmarks.
20141121 04:15:12< vultraz> I hope GH gets file uploading for bug reports soon..
20141121 04:15:29< shadowm> It probably won't.
20141121 04:15:30< iceiceice> shadowm: i don't like bookmarks
20141121 04:18:50< iceiceice> vultraz: i think its better if we don't use github anyways
20141121 04:19:03< iceiceice> because... most of our users probably aren't on it i guess
20141121 04:19:17< iceiceice> i guess that's maybe not true, i have no idea
20141121 04:19:18< vultraz> iceiceice: GNA has always been something they had to sign up for as well :P
20141121 04:19:21< iceiceice> many of them have forum accounts though
20141121 04:19:43< shadowm> vultraz: Incorrect. Anonymous (and optionally email-bound) submissions are allowed.
20141121 04:20:31< iceiceice> but just to balance out the convenience of this, you have to answer trivia questions about git as a captcha :)
20141121 04:21:06< shadowm> Indeed, otherwise the tracker would be full of spam submissions.
20141121 04:24:01< loonycyborg> Yes, the new installer is busted
20141121 04:24:18< loonycyborg> it contains some extra cfg file from wrong branch
20141121 04:24:27< loonycyborg> which makes wesnoth crash at startup
20141121 04:24:36< loonycyborg> fortunately I have a lot of bandwidth..
20141121 04:24:58< shadowm> :(
20141121 04:29:37< loonycyborg> I KNEW that I should do a cherry-pick and not a merge :P
20141121 04:29:53< loonycyborg> But some curiousity compelled me to try to merge too
20141121 04:30:15< loonycyborg> And I wrongly assumed that I managed to clean it up
20141121 04:30:18< shadowm> ... Yeah, that's a really bad idea.
20141121 04:30:57< shadowm> If you merge a commit, you are merging that commit and *all its ancestors*.
20141121 04:35:06< loonycyborg> And if I do reset --hard after checking out the right branch, new files from wrong branch end up remaining as untracked files..
20141121 04:35:57< loonycyborg> anyway, I've deleted all files except the working one now..
20141121 04:36:35< shadowm> There is a `git clean` command (dangerous to use without reading and understanding the documentation).
20141121 04:37:17< loonycyborg> yes, I know
20141121 04:37:40< loonycyborg> I used --dry-run first
20141121 04:37:47< iceiceice> Indeed, otherwise the tracker would be full of spam submissions.
20141121 04:37:58< iceiceice> how novel... maybe we should do this on the forums also
20141121 04:38:19< loonycyborg> But I forgot that the release I uploaded was done before I done that
20141121 04:38:28< loonycyborg> making that installer takes a LONG time
20141121 04:38:52< shadowm> No, I specifically chose our current forum's antispam measures carefully weighing all available options and their respective advantages and disadvantages.
20141121 04:39:08< loonycyborg> As nsis moves all those files into a temp directory and them compresses them..
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20141121 05:37:18< ancestral> I’ve have some questions about themes and macros
20141121 05:38:23< ancestral> It seems that data/gui/default/macros/ isn’t very moddable…
20141121 05:38:48< ancestral> In other words, if I make a custom theme, can I override the macros, like _initial.cfg?
20141121 05:40:05< vultraz> er, data/gui is GUI2 I believe
20141121 05:40:21< ancestral> Which means?
20141121 05:40:30< vultraz> Themes are GUI1
20141121 05:40:37< ancestral> Well, that’s um
20141121 05:40:49< ancestral> Not very promising
20141121 05:41:08< ancestral> For example, the text size in the message box at the bottom
20141121 05:41:18< vultraz> You want data/themes
20141121 05:41:36< ancestral> Oh?
20141121 05:41:48< vultraz> Yes
20141121 05:42:16< vultraz> The syntax is black magick, though
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20141121 06:37:39< ancestral> vultraz: So the problem is, data/themes doesn’t change GUI2 things, amirite?
20141121 06:37:48< vultraz> Yes
20141121 06:37:54< ancestral> And that’s a problem
20141121 06:37:56< vultraz> GUI2 is dialogs
20141121 06:38:01< vultraz> GUI1 is interface
20141121 06:38:07< ancestral> Well…
20141121 06:38:16< ancestral> Dialogs is an interface!
20141121 06:38:20< ancestral> *are?
20141121 06:38:56< ancestral> For example, there’s a Pandora theme
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20141121 06:39:16< ancestral> Well, maybe it would be better if the text could be just a little bit smaller
20141121 06:39:19< ancestral> Too bad, can’t do that
20141121 06:41:30< ancestral> vultraz: Can I override the data/gui/default/macros/_initial.cfg through an add-on?
20141121 06:41:42< shadowm> No.
20141121 06:41:50< ancestral> Boo
20141121 06:43:28< ancestral> Can I override the file with another file, or no, because of scope?
20141121 06:43:45< ancestral> (Like _initial2.cfg)
20141121 06:45:22< shadowm> For a directory inclusion missing a target _main.cfg,_initial.cfg is processed first, _final.cfg last, and everything else in between in alphabetical order.
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20141121 06:47:52< shadowm> Once at the start of do_gameloop(), Wesnoth will call gui2::init(), which leads up to a call to preproces_file() on data/gui/default.cfg. GUI2 is never reinitialized again.
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20141121 07:24:34< ancestral> shadowm: So if I want to change the text size of the message box, what would your suggestion be?
20141121 07:30:39< shadowm> Depends on what dialog "the message box" actually is. ([message]?)
20141121 07:32:29< ancestral> Yes
20141121 07:32:33< ancestral> [message]
20141121 07:35:35< shadowm> data/gui/default/window/wml_message.cfg or so (I'm busy so I pulled this path out of my own unreliable memory).
20141121 07:36:33< ancestral> Right, that’s where it is…
20141121 07:37:17< ancestral> Is there a good alternative to simply editing these files directly?
20141121 07:38:12< ancestral> And if so, what would that be?
20141121 07:44:26< shadowm> No.
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20141121 08:40:52< shadowm> Ivanovic: The topic says Saturday 22 or Sunday 23. What would be the criteria to choose one over the other?
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20141121 08:46:45< shadowm> vultraz: How about we remove the front page trailer?
20141121 08:48:47< shadowm> I for one find that it doesn't really add anything. (No offense to the people who produced it.)
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20141121 10:47:58< vultraz> shadowm: agreed
20141121 10:56:32< vultraz> shadowm: I also vote for killing the google search widget
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20141121 11:22:35< vultraz> shadowm: also, you were asking sirp where you could find one; if you decide to keep it, there's this: https://www.google.com/cse/
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20141121 12:39:53< AI0867> iceiceice: that didn't suppress it, but I'll take a look at the pragma myself
20141121 12:40:00< AI0867> as I can actually test it, unlike you
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20141121 12:58:31< gfgtdf> iceiceice: this line gives me a complie error: https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/src/scripting/lua_map_location_ops.cpp#L58
20141121 13:02:37< Trademark> while there is to mapper/debian--thinkpad-swap
20141121 13:02:42< Trademark> oups sry
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20141121 13:04:10< irker808> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master c5a30c0e95cd / src/scripting/lua_map_location_ops.cpp: fix build http://git.io/7uDm8w
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20141121 13:17:14< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master dc7da581eca3 / src/xBRZ/xbrz.cpp: Fix the gcc <= 4.7 compile fix for xBRZ http://git.io/iRmvUg
20141121 13:19:03< AI0867> iceiceice: ^
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20141121 13:51:20< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master b1ed233c886d / src/play_controller.cpp: Initialize all members http://git.io/8oYmvw
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20141121 14:03:49< irker808> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:1.12 385115727fc1 / src/multiplayer_create_engine.cpp: fix modification for mp campaigns http://git.io/YSxc8Q
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20141121 14:48:48< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master fdc1499441cf / src/editor/palette/tristate_button.cpp: Initialize all members http://git.io/TAtzMA
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20141121 15:20:53< irker808> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 398e292f5165 / src/game_initialization/create_engine.cpp: fix mp campaign modifications http://git.io/6hsFoA
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20141121 15:40:50< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master cdc08a6e16e1 / src/xBRZ/xbrz.cpp: Work around clang defining __GNUC__ http://git.io/kEf7cA
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20141121 15:40:52< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 5ef52b37bb36 / src/game_initialization/create_engine.cpp: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:wesnoth/wesnoth http://git.io/6N6l0A
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20141121 16:40:10< irker808> wesnoth: Alexander van Gessel wesnoth:master 967a2ac0c51c / src/gui/dialogs/debug_clock.cpp: Improve dynamic cast null-check http://git.io/x9VbiA
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20141121 17:25:12< Ivanovic> shadowm: when the folks doing it have the time and feel "yeah, the stuff is okay enough"
20141121 17:25:26< Ivanovic> btw I just received the announcement translation from chrber
20141121 17:25:32< Ivanovic> so there will also be a german announcement
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20141121 18:22:18< irker808> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper website:master 595e3cd53fde / start/1.12/ (7 files in 2 dirs): updated German announcement translation http://git.io/E0qdkQ
20141121 18:26:24< irker808> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master 103d454e4048 / doc/manual/images/pt/ (6 files): added Portuguese manual images http://git.io/hGedOg
20141121 18:26:41< irker808> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:1.12 d83a75fae5ee / / (8 files in 2 dirs): added Portuguese manual images http://git.io/3C-ssA
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20141121 18:41:52< irker808> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper wesnoth:master da45d1979958 / src/CMakeLists.txt: fixed typo in CMakeLists sources list http://git.io/Wpaz7A
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20141121 19:14:03< loonycyborg> shadowm: I checked your test case in win7 vm. generic_string fix indeed reverses the order in which includes happen
20141121 19:14:38< loonycyborg> and it makes final.cfg message second instead of first
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20141121 20:31:57< iceiceice> AI0867: okay, thanks
20141121 20:32:09< iceiceice> gfgtdf: wow, i didn't even realize that i wrote and there,
20141121 20:32:15< iceiceice> i think its because i was writing lua at the same time
20141121 20:32:25< iceiceice> actually i didn't even realize 'and' was legal in C++
20141121 20:32:45< iceiceice> if you want to change to && instead of including an obscure header that seems pretty reasonable
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20141121 20:44:20< irker808> wesnoth: Chris Beck wesnoth:master 51a8ae88df8f / src/help/help_impl.hpp: add a design note to src/help/help_impl.?pp http://git.io/xPZxEQ
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20141121 21:15:25< shadowm> vultraz: Yes, but I'm not sure cse is the thing we are using (though their branding was probably way different at the time -- which must've been long ago to include the already-deprecated-in-HTML-4.01 tag).
20141121 21:16:14< shadowm> Ivanovic: And the "folks doing it" are...? (And what is "it"?)
20141121 21:16:45< shadowm> Ivanovic: Because I already have the front page and forum announcement (and patched front page) ready.
20141121 21:16:49< Ivanovic> "it" = changing all the sites
20141121 21:17:03< shadowm> The front page: http://www.wesnoth.org/index-1.12-4328904823.html
20141121 21:17:07< Ivanovic> so probably: "folks doing it" = shadowm
20141121 21:17:14< shadowm> Ivanovic: What sites?
20141121 21:17:38< Ivanovic> frontpage, update of downloads page, forum post to announcements
20141121 21:17:41< shadowm> Because *.wesnoth.org counts as a single site to me.
20141121 21:18:23< Ivanovic> for me all the single pages count in this
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20141121 21:18:35< shadowm> Ivanovic: I can see that on SF.net the default download for Linux is still 1.10.7, and I don't have access to change that.
20141121 21:18:51< Ivanovic> i can easily do that
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20141121 21:19:33< shadowm> I'd prefer the Sunday (even if Sunday 00:00 UTC, e.g. 21:00 CLST) date, though.
20141121 21:19:48< shadowm> It seems more consistent with the "one RC every two weeks" schedule we had.
20141121 21:21:15< shadowm> Ivanovic: So yeah, I'm going with Saturday 21:00 UTC-03:00 (Sunday 00:00 UTC).
20141121 21:23:47< shadowm> loonycyborg: Yes, that's the way it's supposed to be.
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20141121 23:01:44< iceiceice> shadowm, Ivanovic: are there any plans to release 1.13.0 ?
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20141121 23:02:07< iceiceice> it would actually be kind of a nice thing if we could do that at some point,
20141121 23:02:24< shadowm> No, we won't release 1.13.0 ever.
20141121 23:02:34< iceiceice> there were a lot of users that had usability complaints about the map editor, and potentially we could fix them in 1.13.x and tell them to use that if they dont like the 1.12 version
20141121 23:03:07< iceiceice> well, to tag 1.13.1 or something
20141121 23:03:09< shadowm> (Yes, 1.13.0 will be released at some point, obviously, but probably not soon. Compare the timestamps of the 1.10.0 and 1.11.0 tags.)
20141121 23:03:27< iceiceice> shadowm: is there any particular reason for the timestamps to be that far apart?
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20141121 23:03:56< iceiceice> imo its actually much nicer from development point of view if we at least *tag* regularly
20141121 23:04:06< shadowm> 1.10 was branched off after the 1.10.0 tag. (Same applies to 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8.)
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20141121 23:04:27< shadowm> Tagging is meaningless without the usual release process.
20141121 23:05:03< iceiceice> sure but sometimes i want test if a bug exists at some point and i don't necessarily want to fire up a whole git bisect session
20141121 23:05:09< shadowm> You might get a bisect aid, but it doesn't solve the development echo chamber situation.
20141121 23:05:48< shadowm> Programmers easily become blind to all kinds issues in their software, especially those that directly impact users without resulting in CTD.
20141121 23:05:57< iceiceice> master is already like, what, a year in existence since last tag?
20141121 23:06:01< shadowm> *kinds of
20141121 23:06:16< shadowm> The divergence point was 1.11.11+something.
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20141121 23:07:19< iceiceice> ok, well anyways i think we have a reason to make a development release sooner rather than later, it would be nice if we could pick a target
20141121 23:07:36< iceiceice> if there are no plans then i guess i wont try to fix the editor issues
20141121 23:10:54< shadowm> Have you talked to fabi?
20141121 23:11:14< iceiceice> yes, there was much conversation in channel
20141121 23:11:39< shadowm> Assuming your last statement stems from a lack of understanding of the editor, perhaps he could help you. Now if it's some form of blackmail for getting 1.13.0 out then I don't know what to say about that.
20141121 23:11:52< iceiceice> no, its not "blackmail"...
20141121 23:11:57< iceiceice> if there's a clear deadline that will motivate me to work
20141121 23:12:05< iceiceice> if there isn't, realistically i probably won't
20141121 23:12:36< iceiceice> fabi says he wishes he had never touched the editor,
20141121 23:12:37< shadowm> I've always said people should work on master in such way it is always releasable unless it's explicitly stated otherwise.
20141121 23:12:41< iceiceice> and doesn't have any plans to fix
20141121 23:12:59< iceiceice> shadowm, well this is different,
20141121 23:13:04< shadowm> Do people listen though? Usually not.
20141121 23:13:08< iceiceice> it's not "not releasable"
20141121 23:13:14< iceiceice> since we released it.
20141121 23:13:21< iceiceice> its just a question about improving things.
20141121 23:13:41< shadowm> If I were Ivanovic I'd demand people to make master releasable before even considering a target date, because the other way around doesn't really work for a project like this.
20141121 23:14:14< iceiceice> that doesn't seem to be how we work though
20141121 23:14:31< shadowm> Someone could put three of us on a bus and then drive off a cliff and the deadline would have to be readjusted to account for the sudden loss of three developers.
20141121 23:14:57< iceiceice> look i'm not asking anyone to commit to anything,
20141121 23:15:06< iceiceice> just like pencil in "maybe release 1.13.0 in jan"
20141121 23:15:06< shadowm> And our release manager's schedule seems pretty tight nowadays for that kind of last-minute changes.
20141121 23:15:49< shadowm> I for one want to take a vacation after 1.12.0 is out.
20141121 23:15:51< iceiceice> if "maybe release 1.13.0 in jan" is too much of a commitment, then that tells me everything i need to know
20141121 23:16:26< shadowm> Maybe buy a yacht and go spend a few months in some tropical island in the Caribbean.
20141121 23:18:07< iceiceice> you might have more fun if you charter / rent / lease rather than buy :)
20141121 23:18:18< iceiceice> i think i would be incredibly stressed out if i actually owned it and i was sailing it around
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20141121 23:28:24< Ivanovic> iceiceice: before i can even think about any date i would love to be able to actually compile master with cmake and strict compilation on
20141121 23:28:51< Ivanovic> and this is currently clearly *NOT* the case, so no way that there can be a 1.13.0 release with me as the one doing it
20141121 23:29:43< irker808> wesnoth: gfgtdf wesnoth:master 21e614c2003a / src/playsingle_controller.cpp: fix quit during ai turn http://git.io/PuOBAQ
20141121 23:30:28< irker808> wesnoth: Nils Kneuper website:master 11ad25815c26 / start/1.12/po/hu.po: updated Hungarian announcement translation http://git.io/62DbVA
20141121 23:32:28< Ivanovic> besides i am not sure if i should continue to be the release manager
20141121 23:32:37< Ivanovic> considering that i barely find any time
20141121 23:35:19< Ivanovic> shadowm: i will actually be going on vacation in two weeks
20141121 23:35:26< Ivanovic> and will be basically completely offline during that time
20141121 23:37:08< shadowm> Yeah, that's where I got the idea from.
20141121 23:37:22< Ivanovic> :)
20141121 23:37:43< Ivanovic> my main idea was not the rest from wesnoth but finally having some sun after the lovely german summer...
20141121 23:38:39< shadowm> It's soon going to be summer here and the Pacific isn't too far to the west, so the whole hypothetical scenario is kind of redundant.
20141121 23:38:55< shadowm> Plus I am afraid of large masses of water.
20141121 23:39:11< Ivanovic> there was summer in germany this year, too
20141121 23:39:16< Ivanovic> i think it was on a tuesday
20141121 23:39:40< Ivanovic> and right now the temperatures are down to 5 °C at daytime
20141121 23:39:56< shadowm> Yeah, here we get up to 36 °C in summer pretty much every day.
20141121 23:40:55< shadowm> I can't say I would trade because I don't like cold days in winter either and those usually present temperatures in the -3 °C to 12 °C range.
20141121 23:41:15< Ivanovic> remember, this is still autumn
20141121 23:41:20< Ivanovic> winter did not even start here...
20141121 23:41:31< shadowm> Oh right, yes, winter hasn't come yet.
20141121 23:41:40< Ivanovic> i think this summer we had one week with temperatures about 30°C
20141121 23:41:43< Ivanovic> sometime early in june
20141121 23:42:00< Ivanovic> mid june the rain and stuff started again (right when i had two weeks off :( )
20141121 23:42:20< Ivanovic> so the rest of the summer temps were basically not going above 25°C
20141121 23:43:02< shadowm> I'd take that.
20141121 23:43:29< shadowm> As long as they consistently stay above 14 °C during the day.
20141121 23:43:57< Ivanovic> considering how the autumn goes this year i guess the temperatures will go to -5 °C sometime mid to late december
20141121 23:44:11< Ivanovic> or temps might be up again to 10 °C like last year christmas...
20141121 23:45:10< Ivanovic> current prediction for the first week of december is low temperatures around 0°C
20141121 23:45:14< Ivanovic> (at daytime!)
20141121 23:45:31< shadowm> Lovely. :(
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20141121 23:45:52< Ivanovic> at least it appears to only be cloudy, not rainy
20141121 23:46:01< Ivanovic> (and there might be some fog over the next days, too)
20141121 23:50:29< Ivanovic> anyway, time for some sleep
20141121 23:50:30< Ivanovic> n8
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--- Log closed Sat Nov 22 00:00:20 2014