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20141127 09:53:58< Alchemek> hi. what is advice for beating difficult scenarios in campaigns such as Heir to the Throne? trial and error and perserverence? I always get stuck the seige scenario where you have to fight the orcs and undead
20141127 09:54:12< Alchemek> stuck at the*
20141127 09:58:24< zookeeper> Alchemek, i'd take a look at some of the forum threads listed here: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40519
20141127 10:01:32< zookeeper> unless you come to the scenario on the hardest difficulty and with no carryover gold and no lvl2 units, you should be able to beat it... but you might need to alter your playstyle quite a bit
20141127 10:02:58< Alchemek> oh, alright, that makes a lot of sense
20141127 10:03:05< Alchemek> I figured that I would have to do something like that
20141127 10:03:18< Alchemek> yeah, the last time I played it, it was on normal difficulty
20141127 10:03:52< zookeeper> so are you playing on hard now?
20141127 10:04:04< Alchemek> no lol
20141127 10:04:16< zookeeper> right, okay
20141127 10:04:19< Alchemek> I wanna beat HttT on normal first haha
20141127 10:04:22< Alchemek> then I'll do hard
20141127 10:04:40< Alchemek> I wanna beat it on normal without resorting to easy
20141127 10:04:52< Alchemek> but I don't wanna just give up on the game like I have in the past
20141127 10:05:01< Alchemek> it's so nice that Wesnoth has a new version
20141127 10:05:05< Alchemek> inspires me to play again
20141127 10:05:05< Alchemek> lol
20141127 10:05:35< Alchemek> by the way, thanks for the advice!
20141127 10:06:02< zookeeper> well, that scenario is the typical stumbling block for new players, so if you can figure out how to beat it then i'd expect the rest of the campaign to be manageable as well
20141127 10:06:29< Alchemek> well, that makes perfect sense
20141127 10:06:42< Alchemek> I'll try my best, then
20141127 10:06:43< Alchemek> lol
20141127 10:08:08< Alchemek> it's pretty amazing how much more difficult that scenario is versus the others
20141127 10:08:16< Alchemek> but I guess the others are leveling up scenarios
20141127 10:08:23< Alchemek> to compensate for the difficulty
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20141127 10:09:42< zookeeper> well, frankly i've always been a bit puzzled as to what exactly makes that scenario so hard for new players. it has received so many difficulty tweaks to make it easier over the years... but i guess the map layout and lvl2 enemies are something that requires a different kind of thinking or something
20141127 10:10:20< zookeeper> i guess in the previous scenarios you never had to attack an enemy position like that until most of their units were gone already
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20141127 10:16:49< Alchemek> I think what it has to do with is that a lot of new players don't play turn-based games enough, so they aren't prepared for difficulty increases abruptly as a result
20141127 10:16:54< Alchemek> which is what happened for me
20141127 10:17:25< Alchemek> then again, I did play a lot of final fantasy tactics and a bit of fire emblem before Wesnoth, so I'm not sure why I had/have such a problem with that scenario
20141127 10:17:34< Alchemek> oh well. I shall take your advice and triumph! =)
20141127 10:17:43< Alchemek> I'm sure it'll only take a few tries
20141127 10:17:49< Alchemek> just gotta keep trying
20141127 10:17:55< Alchemek> till I succeed
20141127 10:17:56< zookeeper> it's been quite a long time since i last played through HttT so i guess i don't recall how big the difficulty jump is
20141127 10:18:13< Alchemek> oh I see lol
20141127 10:18:26< zookeeper> anyway, don't be afraid to lose units would be the usual advice, since a lot of people try to keep everyone alive
20141127 10:19:18< Alchemek> what about losing a lot of level 2 units?
20141127 10:19:31< zookeeper> having some expendable elvish fighters is a good idea
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20141127 10:20:03< Alchemek> that's what I figured. I think that's what I did last time I tried it. but ultimately I ended having an ineffective strategy, so I wasn't able to win
20141127 10:20:11< Alchemek> I'm getting better, I feel, each time I play it, though
20141127 10:20:11< zookeeper> losing a _lot_ of leveled units wouldn't be a good idea, but one or two here and there is fine
20141127 10:20:15< Alchemek> so I know I'll win soon enough
20141127 10:20:19< Alchemek> yeah lol
20141127 10:20:27< Alchemek> that makes sense
20141127 10:20:49< zookeeper> i mean it only takes a handful of lvl2 kills to get a lvl1 unit to lvl2 to replace the lost one, so it's not that big a deal
20141127 10:21:11< Alchemek> true that
20141127 10:21:24< Alchemek> but you just gotta be strategic
20141127 10:21:32< zookeeper> sure
20141127 10:21:41< Alchemek> and think, "OK, I lost a level 2 unit. Am I on the way of getting another?"
20141127 10:21:45< Alchemek> lol
20141127 10:21:49< zookeeper> if konrad isn't lvl2 yet, i'd make sure you level him up ASAP
20141127 10:22:15< Alchemek> the last time I played, I got him to level 2, so I was alright. there was this other time I actually got him to level 3
20141127 10:22:21< Alchemek> level 2 is probably enough, though
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20141127 10:24:48< Alchemek> do you actually get better when you play against computer players in multiplayer local games? or is that a waste of time? have you played 1.12 yet? how is the hard AI?
20141127 10:26:41< zookeeper> playing MP against AI is fine, but i'd give the AI players like 1.5-2x the gold you have, because they just aren't smart enough for a fair fight (unless you're really new, in which case i'm sure it's a good way to learn the basics)
20141127 10:27:44< Alchemek> ooh, thanks for the tip! I'll probably try the hard AI with regular gold, and then up the gold accordingly
20141127 10:27:51< zookeeper> a quick match on a small 1v1 map won't take long so you can check how well you fare against an AI and just increase their gold if it's too easy
20141127 10:27:59< Alchemek> yep!
20141127 10:28:13< Alchemek> yeah, I tend to find MP a bit more engaging to be honest
20141127 10:28:14< zookeeper> there's no difficulty levels in (standard) multiplayer
20141127 10:28:18< Alchemek> well
20141127 10:28:22< Alchemek> there is in 1.12
20141127 10:28:27< Alchemek> there's a normal AI and a hard AI
20141127 10:28:43< Alchemek> unless you're saying if you play in network games
20141127 10:28:49< Alchemek> I'm just talking local games
20141127 10:28:55< zookeeper> oh, right
20141127 10:29:17< zookeeper> i don't even know how the strong AI is supposed to differ from default
20141127 10:29:28< Alchemek> neither do I. I can't really imagine it
20141127 10:29:33< Alchemek> maybe they just make better decisions
20141127 10:29:35< Alchemek> protect units
20141127 10:29:37< Alchemek> etc.
20141127 10:29:44< Alchemek> the regular AI just kind of
20141127 10:29:51< Alchemek> brings small amounts of units to die
20141127 10:29:52< Alchemek> lol
20141127 10:30:06< Alchemek> so I think maybe the hard AI wouldn't do that
20141127 10:30:07< Alchemek> who knows
20141127 10:31:30< zookeeper> i guess it's that new thing people were working on some time ago, but presumably it's still not completely finished since it hasn't replaced the default yet
20141127 10:31:57< zookeeper> but i'm sure it's fully functional anyway, so might be worth trying it out
20141127 10:32:12< zookeeper> probably better at defense and such
20141127 10:32:15< Alchemek> it doesn't say it's experimental, so maybe that's good to go
20141127 10:32:18< Alchemek> but you might be right lol
20141127 10:32:36< Alchemek> yeah, I hope so
20141127 10:34:14< Alchemek> what are the most effective ways to get better at Wesnoth, in general?
20141127 10:35:27< zookeeper> i guess playing multiplayer against human opponents
20141127 10:35:48< zookeeper> if you're good at MP then you're good at SP too
20141127 10:35:52< zookeeper> not necessarily the other way around
20141127 10:36:10< Alchemek> you think so? alright, I'll do that, then. but how should I start without getting raged at that I'm a noob?
20141127 10:36:20< Alchemek> I mean, granted, I'm not super trashy at the game
20141127 10:36:23< Alchemek> but I'm not that good, either
20141127 10:36:59< zookeeper> well... tell people you're a noob when you join a game, i guess :P or create one yourself and name it accordingly
20141127 10:37:21< Alchemek> I'll probably create one myself rofl
20141127 10:37:32< Alchemek> there's plenty of noobs =)
20141127 10:37:34< zookeeper> if you can find a 2vs2 match then those would be good places to learn, since if your ally is more experienced they'll probably be happy to give you advice
20141127 10:37:50< Alchemek> most definitely
20141127 10:39:14< zookeeper> but if you have trouble finding good matches, then playing the campaigns will get you most of the way... it's just that MP has some nuances that are missing from SP because the AI just isn't as smart as a human opponent
20141127 10:41:09< Alchemek> right. that makes a lot of sense
20141127 10:41:21< Alchemek> well, I might try my hand at beating HttT all the way through on normal
20141127 10:41:24< Alchemek> then I'll hit MP
20141127 10:41:39< Alchemek> since 1.12 is gonna take a while regarding the MP populating anyway
20141127 10:41:54< Alchemek> I don't know if you noticed that the MP is rather desolate compared to the MP of 1.10
20141127 10:41:56< Alchemek> lol
20141127 10:47:21< zookeeper> yeah most people probably just haven't moved to 1.12 yet
20141127 10:47:32< Alchemek> they're unaware!'
20141127 10:47:33< Alchemek> lol
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 28 00:00:45 2014