--- Log opened Sat Dec 06 00:00:49 2014
20141206 00:02:13-!- ancestral [~ancestral@63.92.240.233] has joined #wesnoth
20141206 00:04:31< justinzane> Does it work in WML to check for "magic" weapons with [filter_attack][not]special=false[/not][/filter_attack]
20141206 00:09:57< zookeeper> should work
20141206 00:10:11< zookeeper> assuming you substitute false with an actual id, that is...
20141206 00:12:21< celticminstrel> ie, special=magic
20141206 00:12:45 * celticminstrel suddenly wonders how you'd filter for an attack with no specials.
20141206 00:12:49< zookeeper> magical
20141206 00:12:53< celticminstrel> Ah, right.
20141206 00:12:54< justinzane> zookeeper: Instead of trying to keep a huge set of [or]special=drain[/or][or]special=foo[/or] I wanted to figure out ...
20141206 00:12:57< celticminstrel> special=magical
20141206 00:13:03< justinzane> celticminstrel: that is the question
20141206 00:13:14< zookeeper> oh
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20141206 00:13:31< zookeeper> i can't think of a way to do that off the top of my head
20141206 00:13:55< justinzane> Basically if specials=<NULL>, then it is a "magic" weapon.
20141206 00:14:14< celticminstrel> ...how does that make sense?
20141206 00:14:24 * justinzane doh...
20141206 00:14:29< justinzane> Basically if specials!=<NULL>, then it is a "magic" weapon.
20141206 00:14:40< justinzane> slippery things those nots
20141206 00:14:44< celticminstrel> ...oh, if it has any special.
20141206 00:14:54< justinzane> yup!
20141206 00:15:05< celticminstrel> Buuut if you want to do it with [not], that still boils down to detecting no specials...
20141206 00:15:13< justinzane> right!
20141206 00:15:59< celticminstrel> Huh. Weapon filters are decidedly non-fancy.
20141206 00:16:01< justinzane> otherwise it would be necessary to come up with a list of ALL specials -- and maintain those as new ones are added. 
20141206 00:16:39< justinzane> There has to be some way to see if a value is "null", though, hasn't there?
20141206 00:17:07< celticminstrel> You know, I wouldn't be surprised if what you ask is impossible.
20141206 00:17:35< celticminstrel> [filter_attack] is in [event], right?
20141206 00:17:40< zookeeper> what's the context? i presume this is an event filter, to check whether the weapon being used has any specials or not?
20141206 00:18:05< celticminstrel> If it's in an event, you can skip the filter and check using conditional statements.
20141206 00:18:20 * celticminstrel tries to find the right documentation page to explain how that would be done.
20141206 00:18:37< justinzane> Yes, zookeeper, I want to be able to trigger an ability if-and-only-if the unit is attacked with "magic". That is...
20141206 00:18:55< zookeeper> celticminstrel, well, this would be a start: http://wiki.wesnoth.org/SyntaxWML#Automatically_Stored_Variables
20141206 00:19:23< celticminstrel> Okay, so you'd have an [if] block...
20141206 00:19:31< justinzane> A plain sword or claw would not trigger, but a magic missile or Flaming_Sword would.
20141206 00:20:01< justinzane> celticminstrel: [if] or [filter_attack] in the context of an [event]?
20141206 00:20:09< celticminstrel> [if][variable]name=attack.length   equals=0[/variable][then]do stuff here[/then][/if].
20141206 00:20:19< celticminstrel> Something like that should work, I think.
20141206 00:20:26< celticminstrel> Uh, sorry.
20141206 00:20:31< celticminstrel> attack.specials.length
20141206 00:20:34< zookeeper> something vaguely similar in principle, but yeah, not really like that :P
20141206 00:20:43< celticminstrel> Yeah, similar in principle, at least.
20141206 00:20:58< celticminstrel> Now that I think about it, specials won't exist at all, so specials.length probably isn't checkable...
20141206 00:21:45< zookeeper> if it needs to be an event, put in a [filter_condition] and check the contents of the attack using weapon/second_weapon described in abovementioned link
20141206 00:22:16< celticminstrel> Oh right, I forgot about [filter_condition].
20141206 00:22:20< celticminstrel> That's much better.
20141206 00:22:57< celticminstrel> But, uh... if there are no specials, will checking attack.specials.length work?
20141206 00:22:59< zookeeper> so yes, something as simple as [filter_condition] [variable] name=weapon.specials.length greater_than=0 [/variable] [/filter_condition] _might_ do the trick
20141206 00:23:11< celticminstrel> Does the array exist with zero length, or does it not exist at all?
20141206 00:23:20< celticminstrel> Does it even matter?
20141206 00:23:21< zookeeper> if there's specials, the [specials] tag exists, hence its length will be 1
20141206 00:23:28< zookeeper> if there's not, its length will be 0
20141206 00:23:50< justinzane> [filter_condition][not][variable]name=second_weapon.specials.length;greater_than=0[/var... then
20141206 00:23:54< celticminstrel> But it will exist?
20141206 00:24:04< zookeeper> what?`
20141206 00:24:07< zookeeper> start over
20141206 00:24:19< celticminstrel> Me or him?
20141206 00:24:27< zookeeper> you
20141206 00:24:38< zookeeper> i don't know which words your words are referring to
20141206 00:24:41< celticminstrel> The specials tag is like a WML array, right?
20141206 00:24:46< zookeeper> yes, everything is
20141206 00:25:03< celticminstrel> ...including normal variables?
20141206 00:25:32< zookeeper> if by normal variables you mean arrays, yes
20141206 00:26:34< zookeeper> but no, i have no idea how to even interpret that question
20141206 00:26:41< celticminstrel> Okay, so if you check [variable]name=x.length; equals=0[/variable] where x has not been defined, it will return true?
20141206 00:27:15< celticminstrel> No, you just said "everything is", so I thought you might mean that scalar variables are really just arrays of length one.
20141206 00:27:42< celticminstrel> ...which would be kinda weird.
20141206 00:27:56< zookeeper> uh, no, obviously "x.length" with x undefined doesn't "return true". i don't understand why you'd ask such a thing.
20141206 00:28:24< celticminstrel> But if an [attack] tag has no [specials] tag, doesn't that mean that attack.specials is undefined?
20141206 00:28:30< celticminstrel> Or am I wrong on that point?
20141206 00:28:32< justinzane> So is ... [filter_condition][not][variable]name=second_weapon.specials.length;greater_than=0[/var ... on the right track?
20141206 00:28:40< celticminstrel> Probably! Try it!
20141206 00:28:40< zookeeper> no, you're correct on that point
20141206 00:28:52< celticminstrel> Okay, so...
20141206 00:29:10< celticminstrel> Doesn't that mean that filter_condition won't work?
20141206 00:29:16< justinzane> zookeeper: no to whom?
20141206 00:29:45< zookeeper> to the person whose words i specifically repeated to make my meaning clear :p
20141206 00:29:56< celticminstrel> Pretty sure it's to me.
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20141206 00:32:21< zookeeper> celticminstrel, i don't know how you think of variables and arrays and whatnot, but none of your questions make any sense to me
20141206 00:32:41< celticminstrel> :|
20141206 00:33:32< celticminstrel> Basically it looks like that filter_condition is checking a non-existent variable.
20141206 00:34:06< zookeeper> yes, of course it checks for a non-existant variable if there are no specials
20141206 00:34:23< zookeeper> that's exactly what it's checking for
20141206 00:34:59< celticminstrel> I guess I'm not clear on the effect of checking a non-existent variable.
20141206 00:36:51< zookeeper> well even so, you can be pretty certain that the length of a non-existant array isn't considered to be "1" or "5" :P
20141206 00:37:01< celticminstrel> True.
20141206 00:37:09< zookeeper> which is what my suggestion checks for
20141206 00:37:25< zookeeper> whether the length is greater than 0. or not less than 1, or however one wants to write it.
20141206 00:37:25< celticminstrel> Ah, so that's why you changed it from equals= to greater_than=.
20141206 00:37:41< zookeeper> yes
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20141206 00:38:31< zookeeper> if the array exists, its length will be 1 (or greater, although not possible with [specials]). if it's not, then we know there's no such array.
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20141206 00:39:12< zookeeper> anyway, it's terribly late so i have to be heading off ->
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20141206 00:39:34< celticminstrel> Okay, bye.
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20141206 16:44:48< justinzane> I'm thoroughly stumped on how to debug a custom ability... [wml_message], {DEBUG_MSG msg} do not seem to sork at all. I've spent a day wading through the docs and am even more clueless. Suggestions?
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20141206 18:55:22< jesusalva> hi
20141206 18:56:16< lipkab> Hello.
20141206 18:56:24< jesusalva> hello lipkab
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 07 00:00:39 2014